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#10092 - 06/09/05 06:58 AM Re: Shabir Shaik Found Guilty: Death Knell for J Zuma!!!
Lobengula Offline
Nkosi
*****

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1077
Loc: Tsholotsho
Sheik Mthembo (not to be confused with Sheik Schabir Shaik)

Firstly you admit that you have not been following this debate or case very closely. In that respect, one understands your glaring misreading of the issues at stake. Any reader of this forum would be aware of my dogged determination in support of Zuma ever since this trial began. Even here in the office we debate daily with the guys and my support for Zuma is well known.

The Sheik probably is not aware that Jacob Zuma was chosen by Mbeki to the deputy presidency from the obscurity of his hitherto job as a provincial minister in KwaZulu-Natal. This rise of Zuma from being a provincial leader to being a Deputy president ahead of charismatic and versatile leaders like Cyril Ramaphosa seems to have irked and angered a number of ANC tribalistic leaders who then went on an offensive to "sort" Zuma out and embarass Mbeki. You must remember Sheik that Thabo Mbeki himself personally verbally accused Cyril Ramaphosa(former secretary general ANC), Tokyo Sexwale(former Gauteng Premier) and Matthews Phosa(former Mpumalanga Premier) of plotting to overthrow him and these leaders were summarily forced out of government structures and they disappeared into business. A commission of enquiry was set up to investigate these leaders and the claims were dismissed.

If Mbeki was that much anti-Zuma as you allege, how could he have appointed Zuma as his deputy and Dr Nkosazana Zuma(Zuma's ex-wife) as his foreign minister?. The really culprits behind the smear campaign against Zuma are not too far from the chaps mentioned above who are all top billionaire businessman at the moment, ironically they benefitted from huge government contracts and tenders as well as empowerment deals.

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#10093 - 06/09/05 01:24 PM Re: Shabir Shaik Found Guilty: Death Knell for J Zuma!!!
Sgero Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 05/31/04
Posts: 643
Loc: United Kingdom
Nkosi

Ngivumele ngiphawule i discussion ebengilayo ngise Summit (bekungela i undue influence hk hk)

Mina angiboni smear campaign evele from those erstwhile gentlemen. First and foremost uMbeki has the elements zika Bob. He wants to surround himself ngabantu that are not challenging. Ask yourself why he drove those guys out of the political arena? The likes of Cyril, Matthews, Paulo Jordan, etc (and has failed to drive Winnie out) and surrounds himself ngabantu abafana no Mr and Mrs Z, Mdladlane, Maduna etc. They are all unambitious and not a threat to his 'popularity'

The so-called plot to overthrow him was a non-starter vele ngoba it was just a way of pushing those guys further from politics (khumbula ukuthi kwakusokuyisikhathi se party presidency election nxa ngingaphambanisi - I stand to be corrected). Futhi Nkosi khumbula ukuthi those gentlemen did not leave i politics on thier free will ngoba sebefuna imali, but were 'RE-DEPLOYED' (and this was the term used) by the ANC to take the fight to the economic front.

uMnu Zuma recieved a kick back and he has to take the brunt of his deeds. No one is out to smear him, uzibhicile yena yedwa ngobulongwe. It could be also that he is the scapegoat (remember the Willowvale scandal) ye ANC which may actually have been the beneficiary ensitha, singazi.

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#10094 - 06/09/05 02:28 PM Re: Shabir Shaik Found Guilty: Death Knell for J Zuma!!!
Lobengula Offline
Nkosi
*****

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1077
Loc: Tsholotsho
Majaha

Here is Judge Willem Heath, the man who originally dealt with this whole arms deal fiasco. He echoes my word almost verbatim with reference to Bulelani Ngcuka and Penuel Maduna's political vendetta against Jacob Zuma:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Slim chance of Zuma being convicted - Heath

June 09 2005 at 08:46AM

By Alameen Templeton

Deputy President Jacob Zuma's chances of being convicted for corruption are "almost nil", according to Judge Willem Heath.

Heath also accused former Director of Public Prosecutions Bulelani Ngcuka of pursuing a political agenda by fingering Zuma without charging him.

The judge had been head of the Special Investigating Unit (SIU) when political pressure was brought to bear on his office after details of arms deal corruption were sent to him, raising speculation that his unit would investigate the deal.

However, he never received permission from the president's office to look into the deal and lost his SIU job after the legal profession took him to court over his investigations into Road Accident Fund fraud.

That court held that a judge could not head the SIU.

On Wednesday, Heath said nothing apart from a political agenda could explain "the phenomenon that Bulelani Ngcuka unleashed with (former justice minister) Penuell Maduna when they convicted Zuma in the media before Shaik was even arraigned.

"I am inextricably drawn to the inference that (Ngcuka), appointed as a politician, had a political motive for brutally attempting to destroy Zuma's reputation and stamping on his constitutional rights to defend himself in court," Heath said.

Judge Squires had not erred in his appraisal of Zuma's relationship with his former financial adviser, Schabir Shaik, but two scenarios had emanated from Ngcuka's "infamous decision," the judge said.

"If Zuma is not prosecuted and he is guilty, the interests of South Africa have not been served. It could be almost impossible to secure a conviction against Zuma through a 'second-take' of Shaik's trial.

"If Zuma is innocent and he is not prosecuted, his reputation will remain unjustly tarnished without the possibility of defending himself, again with Ngcuka having failed in his duties to serve the best interests of South Africa.

"Maybe even more importantly, had Zuma and Shaik been tried together, evidence could have surfaced to refute or rebut evidence that led to Shaik's conviction, and Zuma and Shaik could both have been acquitted.

"What we are seeing is... a blatant attempt to use the arms-deal fiasco as the ideal springboard for political agendas and hidden motives," Heath said.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

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#10095 - 06/09/05 02:45 PM Re: Shabir Shaik Found Guilty: Death Knell for J Zuma!!!
Lobengula Offline
Nkosi
*****

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1077
Loc: Tsholotsho
For the record this is what I wrote in this very forum under the thread "The Mbeki Doctrine-can it work??". My writing was in response to a question posed by ubaba uMtshede on whether the trial was meant to destroy Zuma:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Mtshede


Contrary to that misconception, the trial of Shabir Shaik will serve to strengthen Jacob Gadleyihlekisa Zuma. People must be told that Zuma is the ANC. He was(and still is) the head of ANC intelligence operatives. He was the head throughout the liberation war. He is still the de facto head of the intelligence in real terms.

Mtshede, you would remember that the person who wanted to play politics with Zuma was none other than a fellow Zulu Penuel Maduna using the Scorpions(Special investigative Unit) which reported to him because he was the minister of Justice. It must be noted that Maduna as a Zulu and knowing fully well that the next president should be a Zulu sought to usurp that opportunity using levers at his disposal, but he failed miserably and he had to scamper out of politics to the vagaries of the world of business and invariably followed others who previously tried to do the same. Because Zuma never went past Grade 4 at school, people thought that they could just push him aside using sophisticated legal jargon but they learnt a brutal lesson to their surprise. It must be noted that Dr Maduna has a Doctorate degree in Law from Wits University while Ngcuka is an Advocate of the Supreme Court of South South Africa. Remember all the furore, fuss and fury about the Arms Deal and the alleged involvement of Zuma. The whole case collapsed and Dr Penuel Maduna and the Scorpions boss Bulelani Ngcuka both resigned and disappeared to the business world. The public protector Lawrence Mushwana, declared that Ngcuka had tried to tarnish Zuma's image when in fact Zuma was innocent, in other words he exonerated Zuma of any wrong doing. A paliarmentary commission subsequently set up to investigate the circumstances surrounding the issue of whether or not Zuma was guilty also came out with a clean bill of innocence for Zuma.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nanso-ke indaba zinsizwa zakithi. Our analyses here in this forum is not way off the mark by any standard!!!!

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#10096 - 06/09/05 05:11 PM Re: Shabir Shaik Found Guilty: Death Knell for J Zuma!!!
Sheik Mthembo Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 629
Loc: The People's Republic of Mthwa...
Wena weNdlovu

You would realize wena weNdlovu that due to my lack of in-depth knowledge about this issue or story, I have exercised caution in my comments on this issue. Such comments as, ??it would appear?, If Thabo Mbeki has a hand in it?.. , Now if these revelations are true?..? indicate that I am cautious of taking the stories I am reading about this saga as the absolute truth. Surely you can not turn around, twist (be an Oliver Twist of iNkundla, hk hk), invert, deform, adulterate and deliberately corrupt my sincere comments and say the Sheik is making allegations against your idol Thabo. On the contrary the Sheik has been honest and cautious in his statements and has merely given a hypothesis about this story based on some of the information that we have on our hands. When does giving a hypothesis amount to making allegations? Do not be extra defensive of your idol even if it is not necessary because you do not have the full knowledge of what he gets up to, although he has demonstrated to the world that he has a tendency to lean towards the world of dictators of the likes of the Zimbabwean Polpot, Mugabe.

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#10097 - 06/10/05 08:57 AM Re: Shabir Shaik Found Guilty: Death Knell for J Zuma!!!
Sgero Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 05/31/04
Posts: 643
Loc: United Kingdom
Nkosi

La okulentuthu khona, umlilo ukewabakhona. i generosity ka Shaik is huge sibili, mmmm! Asazi,sizayicela isimvuthelwe uZuma. Ubhlobo buka Shaik lo Zuma kungathi kulento enuka santungwana. I wouldn't be surprised ukuthi kutholakale, on appeal, an irregularity on some technical issue the way the case was tried, kumbe a reduced sentence. Let's watch and wait.

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#10098 - 06/10/05 12:25 PM Re: Shabir Shaik Found Guilty: Death Knell for J Zuma!!!
Sheik Mthembo Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 629
Loc: The People's Republic of Mthwa...
Kulengoma ehlala ikhala kulesi isigungu ethi: 'We makot' uvez' iphenti na?'! Is this song referring to isiketi ezincinyana eziveza amapenti imihla lemihla, ikakhulu ngapha kwelikaQueen sekutshisa sekunje? Kulezi insuku sizabulawa ngamehlo ngenxa yamapenti!

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#10099 - 06/10/05 12:26 PM Re: Shabir Shaik Found Guilty: Death Knell for J Zuma!!!
Sheik Mthembo Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 629
Loc: The People's Republic of Mthwa...
Uxolo le ingena kwezangale. hk hk hk

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#10100 - 06/10/05 08:02 PM Re: Shabir Shaik Found Guilty: Death Knell for J Zuma!!!
moses ka moyo Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 20
Loc: Zimbabwe/South Africa
u Zuma has support ,but hey sizake sibone.ngibone seku le website ethi www.viva-msholozi.co.za

This looks like a real test for the Mbeki leadership

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#10101 - 06/10/05 10:54 PM Re: Shabir Shaik Found Guilty: Death Knell for J Zuma!!!
Mtshede Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 632
Loc: London
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> "Ngeke ngithule umuntu engigedla engihlekisa" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Msholozi address yourself to Mbeki who smiles but writes your political obituary!

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