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#18960 - 10/09/03 04:07 PM Re: tshampiyoni tshiphi
Jazelindizayo Offline
Nduna
*

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 388
Loc: At large
Thrower -
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Unless you Jazi changes your sentiments and policies that iodolises Shonalism,you will be as, great a curse to this Mthwakazi Forumn at the end of this debate as you was a squalid nuisance at the start of this Topic.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think you will find it hard to conduct a debate in which all the participants share the same view. That you should think that I idolise "Shonalism" what ever kind of beast that is, suggests to me, that either you have not followed the debate or you have not understood it. Indeed it is most likely that you have followed the debate AND have not understood it!! I challenge you to put quote "chapter and verse" of my postings that idolise "Shonalism" While you are at it could you also explain to the forum what "Shonalism"
As for your statement that I am a "curse" and a "nuisance" to the forum. Well that is just your opinion and guess what - this might surprise you - you opinions are as substantial as a dog's fart. Not until you acquire the ability to play the idea and not the man and in any case if you find my postings lacking in substance you are quite welcome to ignore them and not to respond to them. Trust me - it will not cause me to toss and turn from lack of sleep if you were not to respond to my postings!!!

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#18961 - 10/09/03 04:22 PM Re: tshampiyoni tshiphi
ntombankala Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 11/06/02
Posts: 205
Loc: Zimbabwe
Yebo kuhle ukukhuluma kodwa phela lingeke liqede isikhathi sonke libonisana labo Jazi. Imibono kaJazi ihlose ukulichithela isikhathi likhohlwe ukucubungula ezinye ezimqoka. Phela lapha kudlalwa imfumba. UJazi labakhe koZvakapresser baphake eyabo. Uzabe elokhu elilibazisa nje - phela khumbulani omai Chenge abangena lapha sesimhlasela uJazi.Umuntu ofuna ukuthi amaNdebele abe zinceku zamashona vele angeke abe lindebele ngifunga ngoGwabalanda angavuka. ULobengula ukubeke kahle wathi "impilo yezwekazi le Afrika ilobudlwangudlwangu" - ungixolele loba ngingenelisanga ukuthatha amazwi akho njengokutsho kwakho. Bantwana benkosi - lingaqali ukuncengana labantu abazibona beyizinceku zamaswina - lingaqali.
Thina siku - frontline - asesabi. Lina elingapho silifisela okuhle - sebenzani - thumelani imali ekhaya ebantwini abathembekileyo asisebenzeni sonkeni sakheni izwe likaMthwakazi. Lesi yisikhathi sokubambana kwezingane zikaMthwakazi - amashona kawasale ngaphandle nxa efuna ukusebenza lathi yebo azalandela umthetho walapha ekhaya.

Kwabavela eLupane labanye abavela koMthwakazi jikelele, sokuthengwisa ama housing and business stands in Lupane growth point. The current price is Z$37 000 for a housing stand. Sifuna lina lodwa kuqala. Very soon Lupane will grow since a university is planned and there are huge coal and gas deposits that can last 100 years that are yet to be tapped, tourist potential, good hard wood industry potential, etc. Gijimani bo!

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#18962 - 10/09/03 09:45 PM Re: tshampiyoni tshiphi
NYASOMBI Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 09/28/03
Posts: 46
Loc: MONTREAL
Jazi,
l'm utterly surprised at how naive you can be. If one does not spend time reflecting on "who did what, to whom and when" then l can rest assure you they are going nowhere (DOOMED). In this case, for one to better understand the problem in Matebeleland one has to precisely ask those questions. After asking those questions you begin to understand that:

1. Another genocide is still possible in Matebeleland

2. Why the shona govt. didn't approve the Zambezi water project

3. Why Matebeleland is underdeveloped compared to Mashonaland yet it has Vic Falls, Wankie National Park, Cattle for beef exports.

4. Why members of the police force and thearmy speak Shona

5. Why the shona govt. tried to introduce shona subject to our kids in Matebeleland without Ndebele being taught in Mashonaland

6. Why all tertiary institutions are full of shonas

7. Why parastals and companies relocated from Bulawayo to Harare

8. Why the electric train moves from the Gweru - Harare, Harare -Gweru and not Bulawayo yet the NRZ HQ is in Bulawayo

9. Why the Zimababwean history taught to our kids is distorted

10. More importantly why the Ndebele culture and language is undermined
...
The list is endless Mr Jazi.
May l also correct you Mr Jazi, what we are talking about here is not TRIBALISM, it is actually ACTIVISM. After understanding the above mentioned points you then realise the need to fight for your rights, culture, language, resources, ethnicity, citizenship, etc.
In your analysis you cite the failure of ZAPU 2000 in the elections as indicating the unpopularity of federalism. The concept of federalism didn't start with ZAPU 2000, if l may educate you. It actually started in the early 80's with Chief Khayisa being the most outspoken. Prior to that Zimbabwe (then Rhodesia), Zambia(then Northern Rhodesia) and Malawi(then Nyasaland) had a federal system. After the Mugabe genocide people were intimidated to talk about it. If l may take you back to the Constitutional Commission's outreach program in Matebeleland, you will realise that federalism was one major topical issue. You have to watch the Matebeleland videos on the commission's outreach program. Some of us are previledged that we now live in countries that have federalism. We have seen the advantages and believe me it is the best thing for Matebeleland.

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#18963 - 10/10/03 03:57 AM Re: tshampiyoni tshiphi
Ndukuzibomvu Offline
Ngqwele
****

Registered: 01/04/03
Posts: 176
Loc: KwaGuqangamadolo
Jazi:

I should begin by apologising for the relatively tardy response. However, I suppose you'll fully understand that in the economic stratosphere that we reside in, a man/woman has to do what they got to do, i.e. make a living, by working their butt off. In an effort not to waste valuable time, I'll jump right into the issue(s).

You rightly ask how one may quantify "noise" in electoral counting. May I take this question as an admission/recognition that, indeed, there IS noise in electoral counting? Noise can enter and pollute /strangulate the system in a myriad of ways; some human (deliberate manipulation or otherwise), some purely technical, and some simply natural factors.
Note also that noise is fundamentally a random process. So, it really doesn't make sense for you to ask a question like "Why Gwanda, of all the places?". No average citizen would know the answer to that one, unless if they had some "insider knowledge" about the underlying distribution of the noisy process. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you know know what I mean. I also think that, rather than asking how one goes about "quantifying" noise, the more fundamental and pressing question should be how one MINIMISES noise. Ideally, of course, you want to totally eliminate this noise.

Note also that the foregoing synopsis assumes that the "election" is conducted in a vacuum. However, you'll agree that such "elections" are, indeed, conducted not in a vacuum, but rather within some socio-political system. In the case of your country, I don't even think there's nomenclature yet for the socio-political system: it's a medley of tribalism, dictatorship, stiff-neckedness, hypocrisy, chronic arrogance, economic mismanagement of the WORST kind, selfishness, shortsightedness, you name it. So, in short, the noise that I speak of doesn't emanate from electoral counting alone. It's multi-dimensional!

I would like to digress briefly and talk about your Holocaust analogy. You asked if it makes sense to blame ALL the Germans for the actions of one Adolf Hitler. First of all, I don't think Hitler planned and executed his party's so-called "final solution" ALONE. He, clearly, had accomplices, most (if not all) of whom were of German extraction (I've heard it said that Hitler had a Jewish ancestor, and it's well-known he was a vegetarian. Talk about irony on a grand scale). In any case, I think that Jews or Roma (so-called Gypsies) people have every right to feel animosity towards Germans in general. It's up to the Germans to prove/demonstrate that they are generally honourable people, and that they never shared Hitler's (and his party) nutty outlook of the world. In fact, I think that's exactly what Germans have been doing since the end of WWII. For instance, look at the level of scientific/economic collaboration today between Germany and the state of Israel. The Jews didn't go to the Germans to say "...look, we don't blame you for the actions of Hitler...". On the contrary, I think the Germans went all the way out to PROVE that they were never behind Mr Hitler, and to show their benevolence as a people. I'm sure you've heard of the term "German guilt mentality". Even today, a lot of Germans feel GUILTY (and rightly so) of the crimes committed by their own, Mr Hitler and his acolytes. They know they still, after over 5 DECADES, have lots to do in terms of sanitising their image as a people. At this point, I would like to challenge you to do some research specifically focussing on the levels/history of scientifc/economic/cultural/etc collaboration between the State of Israel and Germany. I think Germans, to some extent, collectively feel they have an obligation to see that Israel prevails/succeeds.

Now, let me turn to the situation back in your country. What have abetshabi collectively done to demonstrate, in the last 23 years, that they are a "benevolent" people? More importantly, what have they done to demonstrate that they were NEVER behind their murderous/hypocritical "government"? Or, do they not feel the need to do so? Why?

Pan-Afrikanism: It sounds to me that you are equating Pan-Afrikanism with Humanism. Therefore, I'll ask you once again, for the last time: What is pan-afrikanism, and what do pan-afrikanists believe in? what do they stand for? Is pan-Afrikanism synonymous to Humanism?

Ngiyabonga.

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#18964 - 10/10/03 08:42 AM Re: tshampiyoni tshiphi
bongani Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 200
Loc: Afrika
ujazi lowo kukhanya ngumuntu ohlakaniphileyo. khangela utshinshe ithophikhi yezemdlalo (ibhola) into one of politics. vele okungamashona kunjalo kunzenza khona okuhlakaniphileyo. jazi yeka ukuba yikaka yomuntu utshiyane lamandetshu ngithemba obhururu bakho bayakufuna ezvakapressa. shoo sbali...

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#18965 - 10/10/03 10:17 PM Re: tshampiyoni tshiphi
gwesela Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 137
Loc: emaguswini amnyama
Limqhotho lelo bongani, udaba lolu lwaqalwa yimi njalo isihloko sisithi itshampiyoni tshiphi. Leyi ijayivi ka jazi eyepolitriks le shonalism madoda kuhle nxa lingayijayivela lapha okumele ijayivelwe khona, kwezombangazwe thina abanye sizijayivela ibhosso full time madoda ngakho kungabongeka kakhulu bafowethu bantu bantu bakomthwakazi ukuthi indawo le njengoba basakhela abafowethu benkundla ukubana ibe ngeyemagumeni, ihlale injalo.
Ngiyabonga badala njalo ngicela Jazi ungangiphenduli.

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#18966 - 10/10/03 05:21 PM Re: tshampiyoni tshiphi
thrower Offline
Sakhamuzi

Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 60
Loc: Blessed Land
Bosso Fulltime,

Kwaze kwamnandi ukubona uNtombankala ejika kulinkundla,nxa ngisakhumbula ngacina amapostings akhe ngesikhathi ekhuthana loJazi,waze wambiza ngelokuthi Khulu Jazi lesalukazi sakhe!,kungasenani itshona litshona liqinisa ikhanda njengembeva sonke isikhathi.

Sesibuyela thina kungxoxo yethu yeBosso iteam yethu amaNdebele.
Gwesela kwathiwani kumeeting topi,Ayaxotshwa yini amagundwane?njalo sidlala nini inext game.

Bosso ngenkani,ongafuniyo kaye kozwimba emgaxeni!

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#18967 - 10/10/03 06:50 PM Re: tshampiyoni tshiphi
mabhekiza Offline
Sakhamuzi

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 55
Loc: uk
Wena Jazi ozenza umahlakanipheni ngiyakubona sibili ukuthi ulesikhathi,utshona enkundleni instead of working,ulivila hayikhona.Uzenza umvundla.Manje ngikengikutshele "umvundla wathi kunteletsha asiphekane,untelesthe wathi uzajayela msunukanyoko".Angikuthethisi but one day unteletsha uzaphaphama ubususenza kanjani mahlakanipheni?Ngibuza wena jazi

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#18968 - 10/14/03 05:19 PM Re: tshampiyoni tshiphi
Jazelindizayo Offline
Nduna
*

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 388
Loc: At large
Nyasombi
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In your analysis you cite the failure of ZAPU 2000 in the elections as indicating the unpopularity of federalism </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That one statement of your tells me that you grabbed the short end of the stick in so far as following the arguments that I have been making here. On the contrary, sir, my argument was that you cannot explain the election results in simplistic terms such as saying, as Lobengula did, that a vote for Zanu-pf was avote for genocide or as Nduku implied that a vote for Zanu-pf was a vote for marginalisation. The argument of the election results as an indicator of the popularity of federalism is also similiarly simplistic!!!!! (and therefore not valid)
As for the rest of your contribution there are many contentious issues - you mention that Mashonaland is developed- would you care to tell the world at large how Mashonaland is "develeoped" In so doing it would be highly useful if you could begin by defining what you mean by development??

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#18969 - 10/16/03 01:43 PM Re: tshampiyoni tshiphi
gwesela Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 137
Loc: emaguswini amnyama
namuhla siyavena majida, siyabagada emakhanda abo amatshona, lokho okwenu bojazi akelisixolele liye kumbangazwe le thina sifuna ukuzikholisela ngezemidlalo, siyacela badala abahloniphekayo,
Highlander ngesende majida ongafuniyo kayefela kozwimba.

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