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#2042 - 05/26/05 07:29 PM Re: The Man of Independent Mind
Mtshede Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 632
Loc: London
Who has been covering up Gukurahundi really?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Matabeleland atrocity report to remain secret

Loughty Dube

President Robert Mugabe will not allow publication of the Dumbutshena and Chihambakwe reports which detail the atrocities committed by government forces in Matabeleland during the early 1980s as the information is protected under the Official Secrets Act, a government minister has said. Information minister Jonathan Moyo told the Zimbabwe Independent last week in Bulawayo that there was no law compelling Mugabe to make the two reports public. "Under the Official Secrets Act President Mugabe is entitled to decide whether or not to publicise the Chihambakwe and the Dumbutshena reports," Moyo said. "Besides, publication of these reports is likely to cause agitation in the nation."

Moyo, who was addressing journalists at the Bulawayo press club last Friday, accused certain sections of society of trying to use the Matabeleland atrocities as a trump card for their campaign strategy in the forthcoming presidential election. Moyo said: "You are bent on causing alarm in the nation. I also lost uncles and relatives during the Gukurahundi. Even my uncles lost their close relatives during this period, but I am not as bitter as everyone else in Matabeleland."

He was responding to questions that the ruling party was unpopular in Matabeleland and the Midlands as a result of government's failure to publicly apologise and compensate people for the atrocities it committed in the two regions during the 1980s strife. Moyo said: "Zanu PF is now very popular in Matabeleland North and if there is any by-election in any of the constituencies in the province, Zanu PF will definitely win it. The people are not concerned about those Gukurahundi issues. What they want is to move ahead."

The Dumbutshena and the Chihambakwe reports, Moyo said, were not commissions of inquiry and Mugabe under the circumstances had a right not to publish them if he felt they threatened national security. "Those were compiled reports and they are not national commissions. The president has a right and a mandate to decide whether to publicise those reports or to keep them secret," Moyo said. The Information minister cited examples of countries that had kept national investigations into problem areas secret and said Zimbabwe, like any of those countries, had a right to keep the information secret. "Even countries like the United States of America have not come out in the open to publicly declare results into investigations in the murders of people like John Kennedy," said Moyo. "Those are sensitive areas and why would someone want Zimbabwe to publish such sensitive information when other countries have a right not to?" In fact, the investigations of the Warren Commission into Kennedy's assassination were published as soon as the report was produced.

An estimated 10 000 civilians were butchered by the North Korean-trained Five Brigade at the height of the dissident menace. Church organisations' assessments indicate more than twice that number of people perished in as-yet unquantified killings. A Mugabe-appointed committee led by former magistrate Johnson Mkandla to assess the extent of the atrocities disbanded after failing to get financial support from the government. Mugabe has not publicly apologised for or acknowledged the atrocities but has described the murders as "moments of madness".
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

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#2043 - 05/26/05 10:56 PM Re: The Man of Independent Mind
Sheik Mthembo Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 629
Loc: The People's Republic of Mthwa...
Kanti pho ke maNdebele lifunani? There is something not right here bantu, something strange ngokunakana kwabanye bethu. Pius Ncube has time and again raised the issue of Gukurahundi in various platforms and has even directly asked Mugabe about this issue face to face hatshi okwamadlwana. Pho-ke umubi ngani ke khonapha uNcube?

Nanti ijaha who has decided to challenge the regime of Mugabe instead of joining it and working for it and defending it like oJonathan Moyo laba esibathanda kangaka, but yet there are Ndebeles who still regard the man as not doing enough!

Lifunani? oJonathan Moyo, imikhenkethe who brag and boast about having worked,defended and served well the system that terrorised and killed our kith and kin in the 80's and continues to do so today by denying them food so as to starve them to death? Awu sukani bo!

That Jonathan Moyo chap could not even ask Mugabe in his face why he killed his father? He did not have the balls to do so but chose to be his bootlicker while our own brave bishop asked the tyrant face to face why he committed genocide in Matebeleland! Such are the actions of a brave man and they need nothing other than praise, moral support and recognition!

I urge those bitter about the actions of this man to look themselves in the mirror, be honest to themselves, their conscience and ask themselves honest questions about their uncalled for black mamba attacks against this man of Ihawu and Spearwho is brave enough to expose the evils of this daylight tyrant. For Godsake here is a man who is risking his life and that of his family on a daily basis through challenging this evil and murderous regime of Mghaxa and it is indeed surprising that the very people who are supposed to give him support are busy trying to pull him down with their uncalled for criticism just like Zanu PF is doing!

So how do we then differentiate them from those ZPF sycophants and bootlickers like oJonathan?

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#2044 - 05/27/05 08:40 AM Re: The Man of Independent Mind
Lobengula Offline
Nkosi
*****

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1077
Loc: Tsholotsho
Bafowabo

I personally think that the Very Right Archbishop Ncube could extend his influence in the lines of other lesser known priests like the one detailed below. Arch Ncube could use his church's huge influence as a leverage or lever to engage the Gukurahundi monsters and request them to volunterily come forward and confess their sins and beg for forgiveness from the villagers in general and victims in particular. He could lead a quasi-religious crusade to fish these monsters out just like the Truth and Reconciliation did in South Africa. Those that do come forward could then be required to tell the nation who actually sent them to Mat'land and why? Who was their paymaster? Thereafter, the Gukurahundi functionaries would then be required to pay and compensate the victims (by paying for their school fees, food and other forms of sustainance) .After all, at this precise moment in time Swiss Banks which benefitted from Hitler's atricities are currently paying billions to the Jewish victims of the Holocaust.

I think other lesser known Priests are doing a lot of work on the ground, albeit, with less publicity and fan-fare:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Zimbabwe Standard (Harare) July 2, 2001 Ex- Army Officer Adopts Genocide Orphans Thabo Kunene, Harare A former army officer who served in the notorious North Korean-trained Fifth Brigade, which was involved in the mass slaughter of thousands of Zapu supporters in the 1980s, has adopted two Tsholotsho orphans whose parents were killed during the genocide. The actions of the former Gukurahundi man took the small community in the Phumula area of Tsholotsho completely by surprise. The 43 year-old former officer, who wished to remain anonymous and who claims to be a born-again Christian, adopted the orphans at a meeting with the villagers two weeks ago. He had gone to the village in the company of his church pastor. On arrival, the two men went straight to the homestead of the village head and told him that they had come to apologise to the families of people who lost their loved ones during the massacres. At first, the village head thought the two men were drunk but on realising they were serious, he called other villagers to an urgent meeting with the two. According to eyewitnesses, the former soldier made an emotional appeal before the villagers and confessed that he had been among hundreds of Fifth Brigade troops who had rampaged through the villages of Matabeleland and the Midlands slaughtering innocent people. "I know I am guilty because I also took part in the killings of your loved ones. Some people lost bread winners because of what the Fifth Brigade did here," the former officer is said to have told the shocked villagers. "God spoke to me one day and I decided to ask my pastor to accompany me to Matabeleland to apologise for causing suffering and pain to many people," said the former soldier, who now lives in Zvishavane with his wife and three children. He told the villagers that many Fifth Brigade soldiers now regretted the part they had played in the genocide which occurred soon after independence. However, some youths, irked the presence of the ex-officer, tried to beat him up as he apologised for the massacres. They were restrained by the villagers. The eyewitnesses said most of the villagers who attended the meeting had accepted the former Gukurahundi officer's apology. After apologising to the villagers, the ex-army officer then asked the locals to identify two orphans who lost their parents during the massacres. After the villagers identified two orphans, the former officer adopted them as his own children. He told the villagers that he would take care of all their educational needs, including the paying of school fees and the buying of uniforms and books. Their education would be covered by his insurance policy, he told them. The two orphans he adopted are doing 'O' and 'A' level, in Bulawayo and Tsholotsho, respectively. The relatives of the orphans confirmed their adoption by the former Gukurahundi soldier, but said the children would continue staying with their relatives. "I can confirm the adoption. The former soldier also gave them $2 000 before he left," said one of the relatives who declined to be identified. The former officer later told The Standard that God had changed his life after his conversion to Christianity. "I am now a new person. I want to serve the Lord," he said. His pastor described the Tsholotsho meeting with the villagers as fruitful but said the visit had been risky as some people had threatened to kill the former soldier. The Fifth Brigade, which comprised mainly former Zanla guerrillas, was unleashed on the opposition Zapu supporters in Matabeleland and Midlands provinces in 1983 on the pretext that the soldiers were tracking down dissidents. Local and foreign human rights activists estimate that at least 20 000 civilians perished during the campaign to crush Zapu, which was then led by the late Joshua Nkomo. Perence Shiri, the founder commander of the Fifth Brigade, was later promoted by President Mugabe to the rank of airforce commander amid protests by local human rights activists who included former Prime Minister of Southern Rhodesia, Sir Garfield Todd. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

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#2045 - 05/27/05 08:56 AM Re: The Man of Independent Mind
Mtshede Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 632
Loc: London
Lobengula thank you very much for offering uNcube some good advice about how he should continue what he is already doing and has been doing.

I wonder if anyone knows about the work of the Bulawyo CTJP or the work still being conducted underground by Amani Trust people under Ncube's orders?

I wonder if you would like to offer any good advice to our other Mthwakazian icon Dr Moyo MP (Tsholotsho) and in particular whether you wish to commend his brave and truthful comments to the effect that:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The people are not concerned about those Gukurahundi issues. What they want is to move ahead. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would also like to call on Sthutha to kindly offer his further invaluable thoughts and comments about the heroism of Moyo as opposed to the cowardice of Ncube.

I would also like you both to contrast the bravery of Moyo with that of men among men such as the aforementioned Messrs Mkandla, Mthunzi and Simela who no longer can safely go home because they told the world that the people rem,ain deeply concerned about these Gukurahundi issues whatever Mgabe's dogomites, catamites, sodomites, whores, concubines, prostitutes, streetwalkers and performing jesters say to the contrary.

I would also like to ask both of you to address the efforts Ncube has made to come to the assistance of asylum seekers in South Africa, the UK and elsewhere.

It does not make sense to me that this unprincipled slave of white interests should go out of his way to embarrass and shame his supposed white masters by bringing the attention of the world to bear on the way asylum speakers are being treated.

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#2046 - 05/27/05 09:02 AM Re: The Man of Independent Mind
Lobengula Offline
Nkosi
*****

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1077
Loc: Tsholotsho
Sir Cde Potshoza, DPhil(lies & fabrications)

You stand up in this mighty and respected forum with a serious face, rubbing your stomach with your royal palms and as usual allege that:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The whites reward him with humanitarian awards and the blacks (Ndebeles for that matter) reward their own with scorn. Shame on those of you who always snipe from the sidelines.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is it not a melo-dramatic twist and turn that our one and only Duke of the Royal Leamington Spa, Prince Potshoza (not to be confused with the Duke of Edinburgh, Prince Philip), has the stomach to wantonly lambast members of this forum and accuse them of not respecting Arch Ncube, when all members of this forum know only too well that Sir Potshoza is the one who brought the Archbishop's name to disrepute and contempt when he (Potshoza) travelled all the way from Bulawayo to the Royal Leamington Spa to tell primitive lies about the sacred bishop. Not only was he forced to unceremoniously withdraw his fabrications but he also admitted to telling lies in broad day light and contended that he has now lost all "credibility" that earned him the knighthood. That Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain has not seen it fit to withdraw the knighthood not only from Sir Potshoza but also from Mugabe who has boasted of having degrees in violence is a bit mind boggling.

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#2047 - 05/27/05 09:10 AM Re: The Man of Independent Mind
Potshoza Offline
Nduna

Registered: 08/20/01
Posts: 481
Loc: Leamington Spa
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Lobengula:
in brought day light...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What's that?

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#2048 - 05/27/05 01:23 PM Re: The Man of Independent Mind
sthutha Offline
Nduna

Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 304
Madoda,

Mina angitshongo ukuthi uNcube is doing nothing to expose Mgabe's crimes, what I said is that why is it that now he continually stand on the fact that Mgabe over the past 5 years has been the worst criminal?Why is consistently stopping at that point.What has happened to all the complete truth he has ever mentioned since time immemorial?

I personally think that the selective mention of Mugabe's crimes of the past 5 yrs against white farmers might be targetted at those communities with better prizes as Potshoza D Phil put it " whites reward him with human rights prizes while oMthwakazi reward him with scorn".I wonder if this is the albatros to his current line of thinking?

My comments on Ncube should not be seen as an attack on his person I only am trying to understand his current position on whether Mugabe has become a worse murderer in the past 5 years compared to his previous history as Ncube's statements seem to imply.I could be reading his statements wrongly.

While Ncube does not see human rights violation in terms of white/black /shona and the likes as has been pointed out the fact of the matter is that while Mugabe has in the last 5 yrs taken his murderous tendencies to the previously untouchable community of whites it is a fact that this has always been directed at our people.I wonder if the killing of whites and taking away of commercial farm land has been a catalyst to the internationalisation of this debacle.It should be brought out clearly that a murderer is murderer.I think Ncube's statements would be more powerful if now he is saying I told you about this murderer all along and what did you do?

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#2049 - 05/27/05 02:56 PM Re: The Man of Independent Mind
Mtshede Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 632
Loc: London
It is true.

He told us about that murderer all along.

And what did we do?

I remember howling at the moon as a little boy but nobody heard me.

But now he has used the deaths of a few with a view strategically to internationalize the struggle.

What shall we do?

Sthutha I am still howling at the moon.

What are you saying?

Senzeni na?

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#2050 - 05/27/05 03:34 PM Re: The Man of Independent Mind
Sheik Mthembo Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 629
Loc: The People's Republic of Mthwa...
Rather than join Mugabe and his henchmen and get a farm and a mansion kuboGunihili labo like the likes of Jonathan Moyo, Ncube has chosen to internationalize the human rights violations in Zimbabwe without fear or favour. He has done and continues to do a splendid job of it all. This brave son of Mthwakazi has played a huge role in ensuring that this regime remains on the international radar of politics through continuing to expose its gross human rights violations at every platform he gets. Ncube has many a times mentioned the gukurahundi issue and he still does but nangu umuntu ohlakaniphileyo who is capitalising on the human rights of those deemed 'sacred' by this world to expose the evil of Mugabe and the tyranny that has always visited us. Let us remember that even 5 years ago it is not the whites only who suffered the brutality of Mugabe. The majority of Mthwakazi people suffered worse brutality at the hands of Mugabe than people from the north because they dared challenge him and rejected him and his evil party. The majority of Mthwakazi people are scattered all over the world in foreign lands having been pushed out of Zimbabwe since the 80's. The five years ago brutality was just a final push on the part of Mthwakazi.

At the present moment they are deliberately starved and the genocide continues unabated.

The critics of Ncube are harsh and irrational, their accusations groundless if not absurd, baseless and unjustifiable and unsustainable the same way ZPF?s accusations are against Ncube!


Mthwakazi Let Ncube Speak And Speak He Will!

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#2051 - 05/27/05 04:57 PM Re: The Man of Independent Mind
Mtshede Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 632
Loc: London
Mr Chairman if the day ever comes when the FILFTH brigade returns to its killing ground

and that day might come

I know Pius's critics will be safe abroad.

But I will live and die by your side and by the side of your senior relatives, living and dead, and by the side of the lionhearted Pius too.

This is a promise from your loyal son in the struggle, the humbled son of a dead father.

Words are air.

But deeds will follow.

Never again.

Never ever again.

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