A friend of mine in London, a wise and perceptive son of iSilo samabandla in a far country, once said to me that people who look at British people and see sheep should realize that beneath the wool there is a lion's mane and beneath the soft sheeplike voices there is a thunderous growl.

I believe that from today we will see more and more the emergence of the leonine reality of Great Britain as its people confront the realities of what was done to innocent commuters here, humans living human lives, by fanatics and homicidal maniacs.

Some of the dead will be from many other countries.

Let us mourn them all.

Somebody's husband, somebody's wife, somebody's son, somebody's daughter, somebody's mother, somebody's father, somebody's sister, somebody's brother, died today on the innocent road between breakfast and a farewell kiss at home and the first hour at work.

Sithi: lala ngoxolo.

May the earth rest lightly on your mortal remains and may God welcome you to Heaven.

Sithi: lisemazulwini.

I believe that from today the British will grow increasingly prepared to confront fanatics and homicidal maniacs across the globe.

A new wind is going to blow across the planet.

Please let us position ourselves to let this wind carry us and assist us in our journey.

We are after all lions ourselves, not sheep.

What happenned today is a barbaric and insane act.I emphathise will the families affected direct or indirect.I am also worried as I have some relatives and friends who use the tube in London everyday and havent heard from some of them at the present moment.

It is indeed saddening that some people can perpetrate such barbaric acts just to gain unwarranted publicity. My sympathy goes to all those affected at this difficult moment

It is sad indeed......

Kanti wona amadelakufa( Arabs, Bin Laden's followers) azapetha ngani......

Makisani i register sibone bafowabo labo dade aba London based bantu. Langalezo qotho!

I am still struggling to get hold of my brother becoz amamobiles awavumi. I have been tyring a few friends of mine as well, eminent friends of mine abalapha abasebenzela eCentral but angikabatholi. I hope I will. This is a dispicable act of cowardice that should be condemned by all of us.

yey limiqotho lelo ka Mabila kumele sazi ukuthi izizikulwane zika Mthwakazi ziphephile kule ingozi.

UMMMM SHUWA LINA

It is an outrage.....that must never never never achieve its ends.

What a cruel act???Am short of words to describe how terrible shattered am by such an insane act of human sacrifice in order to make a bold political statement.Some people indeed have no conscience at all.My condolences to all the affected families.

Is a western life worth more Mthwakazian tears than an innocent Iraqi child's life? How many innocent women and children are killed in Iraq?

Bhudaza uthi wena
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Is a western life worth more Mthwakazian tears than an innocent Iraqi child's life? How many innocent women and children are killed in Iraq? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umbuzo wami kuwe uthi, ngubani obulala abanwatan labomama kwele Iraq???? kawabulalani wodwa na Amadelakufa?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Ndabezitha:
Umbuzo wami kuwe uthi, ngubani obulala abanwatan labomama kwele Iraq????
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ngama British lama Americans

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
kawabulalani wodwa na Amadelakufa?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Labo bayabulalana, kodwa isizatho sakhona yikuthi udlame lukhwezelwa ngabavela ngabangaphandle, ama Bhilithani labaseMelika.

Bhudaza mfethu!
Any loss of innocent lives anywhere in the world is bad.London is a multicultural city and for you to assume that a "western" life is white according to your statement flow is irresponsible.On those tubes there were mthwakazi people,my own cousin is not yet accounted for and am hoping he is in one of the hospitals.To me your statement is like an insult to injury and ignorant of the composition of the present day Western society especially London.

i # suspect kuma London bombings kuthiwa ngu ****..

Maqhamehlezi,

Are you not concerned about the root causes of such atrocities? The British themselves have proclaimed that it was only a matter of when, and not if, that this was going to happen. Which probably means that the UK is in a state of war.


If such an atrocity can be linked to the Middle East, are we now showing concern just because it's closer to our adopted "home"?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> umm

Bhudaza,

Two wrongs dont make a right. I insist that these bombings are an outrage and an evil and barbaric.

Please educate us on what the root causes are that can justify such an atrocity!

Was it right for ZAPU and ANC to kill the imperialists?

I appreciate the anger, frustration, pain and suffering for those robbed of "business as usual" in Landani izolo. Abalimeleyo ngibafisela ukusila ngokuphangisa. Abadlulileyo silila njalo lemuli zabo. Indaba kodwa nansi Mthwakazi:
U Bleya lo maGangeni lamuhla lokhu bathi amazwe abo are "At War!" Nxa uhlasela emzini wabanikazi, owakho uvikeleke kangakanani?? Nxa uhlasela unxusile lawe ukuthi uhlaselwe noma ngayiphi indlela. Angithi nxa kudlala iBosso lithi attack is the best form of defense?????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by S'gwagwagwa:
Bhudaza,

Two wrongs dont make a right.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why then do you condemn one wrong, and not the other?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Please educate us on what the root causes are that can justify such an atrocity!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I will not justify any atrocity. As a Mthwakazian I have suffered Gukurahundi and my own relatives now suffer from Muramba*****. The reasons for Allied Forces' presence in the Middle East have been shown to be misrepresented, just as the premise for Gukurahundi was.

ma usezweni noma yiliphi,uma izwe seliphethwe yizigelekeqe"infested with criminals" doesnt any government device a plan and call it a WAR against the criminals.lets not mix the rights of of innocent palestinians with the criminal mind of the Taliban and Al Queada that oppressed women and their own people under the name of islam when islam doesnt advocate such behaviour.
We know if cops in Bulawayo declare war on Gubuzelas and other criminals those criminals will retaliate but its not an admirable did cause they are undesirable elements in society .

But these British and American governments are not Iraq and Afghanistan govenments Maqhame! Were ZIPRA and ZANLA not called terrorists belwela inkululeko yakwabo in their own country belwisana lama settlers wona ezibiza the boys in the bush loba "missing in action"???
Namhlanje ama terrorists ngama Taliban le Alqueda and unfortunately main stream media will not allow them to air their views objectively. We hear the story as told by western imperialists only!

Dade
Mina sistela iTaliban ne Al Queada kumi ngamatororo and evil period! before even attacking foreign lands they brutalised their own people denying them their basic human right of choice.I didnt need western media to let me know about those terrorist but from the Arab media like Al Jezzeera and Abu Dabi tvs as well as stories recited by people from Afghanistan.
Lets not mix things here.What USA or UK does as wrong , should be condemned . these stateless groups are evil period.If its palestinians fighting back the Israelis i would say yes its their right to do so too.
I hope you dont support the Lord's resistance Army in Uganda which abducts children make them fighting machines against the Ugandan Government at the same time raping women,same as Al Quaeda pretending to fight for the rights of Muslims yet they brutalise their own people at the same time.
Then we might as well support uMgabe he is fighting the former colonial masters yet he killed us and is still brutalising his own people and labelling all who speak against him as traitors and Blair - Bush bootlickers.

Ngiyakuzwa Maqhame! It would also be interesting to know the forces behind Aljazeera le Abu Dabi TVs. Things are not always what they seem to be.

Ngivumelena lawe akumelanga sisekele ubudlwangudlwangu in any form or kind. It would also be interesting to know the forces behind LRA labo Mgabe.

I remember Potshoza mentioning that the all time favourite American, Ronald Reagan sponsored the Taliban in the 80's in order to drive out Communism.

It is also not a secret that when Saddam was gasing his own people in the 80's, he was being armed by western forces.

Furthermore, at a time when we were faced with the Gukurahundi genocide, Mugabe was being knighted in the UK. And as we are now faced with Murambama*****, people seeking refuge in the "safe haven" are being deported as we speak.

Certainly, there are issues that need to be cleared before we stand shoulder to shoulder with any British govt.

The point bakwethu is not about supporting UK or USA.I stand to condemn any attrocity--condemning this barbaric act in London does not mean I am 100% shoulder to shoulder with the west but there are a number of issues which I can openly condemn should anyone post a topic about.Anyone knowing his/her true history knows the injustices done by the west which I condemn equally like this form of terror done in London.

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LIZANGENZANI LINGYEKIZOLO

I would simply like to note that the people in the Al-Qaeda franchises who bombed innocent people in London also killed some 254 innocent people in the bombings in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam and continue to direct the bombings of innocent Iraqi civilians, most especially those who are from the Shiite majority who are considered to be "kafrs" like the rest of the non-Muslim world by the likes of Al Qaeda purists.

I don't support the Bush Blair imperialism which has been conducted without any sense of the need for multilateralism or any sense of respect for the spirit and letter of international law.

I agree in many ways with George Galloway's analysis of the bombings save to observe that it was Galloway who visited Baghdad in 1994 and told Saddam </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">"Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">thus putting himself on a par with those who lined up to present the Butcher of Matebeleland with paeans of praise, pangolins and knighthoods in his years of supremacy.

But because I don't support Blair and Bush I hope I will never be so naive as to think that I should therefore support people who would feel quite happy to kill any member of this forum in pursuit of this goal of creating an Islamic superstate or Khalifat which would view western democracy to be an enemy.

In my frank view it is a sin and a shame that some supposedly progressive intellectuals in the world today are prepared to shun the devil Bush and embrace the other devil Bin Laden.

Blood was spilled.

Let us not offer a nuanced response to the spilling of that blood.

It is not the time and I don't believe it is in accordance with the principle of ubuntu.

Are we daring to suggest the dead were culpable because they are living in the UK?

What if someone of this forum's relatives died in the bombings?

Shall I preach to you about Fallujah when we hear that Ndoda or Ndodakazi living in exile in London was blown to heaven by Bin Laden?

What sort of nonsense is that?

Should we then say we from the unhappy state of Zvimbagwe should suffer for the sins of Mgabe?

I stand shoulder to shoulder with the people of Britain and I hope that in this solidarity the people of Britain will understand the vital need to stand shoulder to shoulder with us.

I hope the British will stop the forcible deportations.

At the same time I would like to ask who will tell me how to deal with the CIOs and ministers' brats who invade the UK while spouting their support for a pack of religious fanatics from the middle east as well as a pack of irreligious fanatics from Zvimbagwe?

Whoever can offer an answer to that one wins the title Sage of the Ages.

Two words:

VICIUOS CIRCLE

"In my frank view it is a sin and a shame that some supposedly progressive intellectuals in the world today are prepared to shun the devil Bush and embrace the other devil Bin Laden"

Mtshede!
I shun the source of the two devils. I praise non over the other because they have been brewed in the same pot and both serve the same master!! I hate the person responsible for innocent lives lost daily in Iraq as much as I hate the one responsible for the loss of lives in London last Thursday.

Bobaba laboMama

Maybe if we can di deeper we can be able to see the bigger picture and then stop blaming so and so for hating so and so. Why don't we try to analyse the causes of the so called "terrorism", lets put the 9/11 an 7/7 incidents aside and try to genuinely discuss the causes of terrorism. Is it the American foreign policy? Is it the British imperial legacy? Is it the lack of civilisation on the part of the Islamic fundamentalists? is it the wish of the Islamic fundamentalists to turn the world into an Islamic domain? Is it merely a clash of civilisations, Islamic vs Christianity and Western civilisation? is it the mere hatred of Western civilisation? or is something else? I think that after a careful analysis thats only when we can start to be judgemental for our judgements will be informed.

Bakwethu it is a strange fact of human existence that it is always really easy to find really good reasons to kill other people.

When the day comes when others are the targets many people find it easy to be objective and analytical.

When the day comes when we become targets we find it easy to cry to heaven.

I think I will just cry to heaven when any innocent person is killed in London or Iraq or Mthwakazi and I won't try to offer a figleaf of legitimacy to people like Al Qaeda.

Ngitshiya pansi.

As someone who lives in London, and rather likes this city, I associate myself completely with London's Mayor.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Text of statement delivered by Ken Livingstone

?This was a cowardly attack, which has resulted in injury and loss of life. Our thoughts are with everyone who has been injured, or lost loved ones. I want to thank the emergency services for the way they have responded.

Following the al-Qaeda attacks on September 11 in America we conducted a series of exercises in London in order to be prepared for just such an attack. One of the exercises undertaken by the government, my office and the emergency and security services was based on the possibility of multiple explosions on the transport system during the Friday rush hour. The plan that came out of that exercise is being executed today, with remarkable efficiency and courage, and I praise those staff who are involved.

I?d like to thank Londoners for the calm way in which they have responded to this cowardly attack and echo the advice of the Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair - do everything possible to assist the police and take the advice of the police about getting home today.

I have no doubt whatsoever that this is a terrorist attack. We did hope in the first few minutes after hearing about the events on the Underground that it might simply be a maintenance tragedy. That was not the case. I have been able to stay in touch through the very excellent communications that were established for the eventuality that I might be out of the city at the time of a terrorist attack and they have worked with remarkable effectiveness. I will be in continual contact until I am back in London.

I want to say one thing specifically to the world today. This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and the powerful. It was not aimed at Presidents or Prime Ministers. It was aimed at ordinary, working-class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and Christian, Hindu and Jew, young and old. It was an indiscriminate attempt to slaughter, irrespective of any considerations for age, for class, for religion, or whatever.

That isn?t an ideology, it isn?t even a perverted faith - it is just an indiscriminate attempt at mass murder and we know what the objective is. They seek to divide Londoners. They seek to turn Londoners against each other. I said yesterday to the International Olympic Committee, that the city of London is the greatest in the world, because everybody lives side by side in harmony. Londoners will not be divided by this cowardly attack. They will stand together in solidarity alongside those who have been injured and those who have been bereaved and that is why I?m proud to be the mayor of that city.

Finally, I wish to speak directly to those who came to London today to take life.

I know that you personally do not fear giving up your own life in order to take others - that is why you are so dangerous. But I know you fear that you may fail in your long-term objective to destroy our free society and I can show you why you will fail.

In the days that follow look at our airports, look at our sea ports and look at our railway stations and, even after your cowardly attack, you will see that people from the rest of Britain, people from around the world will arrive in London to become Londoners and to fulfil their dreams and achieve their potential.

They choose to come to London, as so many have come before because they come to be free, they come to live the life they choose, they come to be able to be themselves. They flee you because you tell them how they should live. They don?t want that and nothing you do, however many of us you kill, will stop that flight to our city where freedom is strong and where people can live in harmony with one another. Whatever you do, however many you kill, you will fail.?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

The aim is not to try to justify the barbaric acts of any nature, but to justify justice. If you and me agree that terror acts pepertrated or committed by governments or individual groups can not be justified then it informs the mind that any terror is evil and can not justified simple on which one finds himself in. It is an evil that must not be confined to certain regions of the world, it must be dealt with severely, without favour. If the Western world terrorises any part of the world this must be condemned and the crimes committed brought into the international legal system to remedy or redress the injustices, but does USA accept its citizens to be scrutinised in this way?, the answer is no.

The arrogance exuded by the likes of Bush and his coeterie only serves to exercebate terror. Let us be impartial at dealing with terrorism, lets deal with the fundamental causes,where the finger points at us we must change, where the finger points at them they must change their ways. Unless and until we stop sweeping this under the carpet and pretend that it does not exists then we are in for a long long tension.

The naive will quickly point their fingers at the Muslin world for the evil attrocities unleashed on innocent people in the City of London, forgetting that anything is possible, the likes of IRA could still do it, the likes of FBI, CIA MI5 etc could do it to justify ulterior motives. One can not rule out the possibility that the Islamic fundamentalists maybe involved but, having witnessed bigger events than this and blame thrown on wrong people then one remains suspicious. One must not rule out Zimbabwean involvement too, if the possibility of Zim giving support to Alqeada guys who plane-bombed the world towers existed, so could be this time around.
Let us leave the arrogance that has been preached over the years that other kinds of people are terrorist or could be terrorists but not the other type, everybody is a potential terrorist and everybody is a potential peace maker.

Bafowethu.

MINA NGITHI LABABANTU ABAQUPHULE INJANJI ZAMANGISI BANGAMAGWALA.

They are cowards of the worst order. I say so because, if you are a warrior, you must fight warriors like you. If you are defeated on the battle field, and you turn your frustration on civilians, then you are a STINKING COWARD.

IF YOU CAN NOT FIGHT A WAR, THEN NEVER EVEN CONTEMPLATE TAKING UP ARMS.

It was on this principle that we built ZPRA. We believed that we should not HASTEN in our PLANS. Because ungenza amawala ziyakuxaka izinto and you will turn your frustration on people you claim to be fighting for. War is for warriors.

Count us too when it is time.

THIS MUST BE A LESSON TO ALL WHO WANT ITILATILA.

Li Zwangendaba.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Zwangendaba:
<strong> Bafowethu.

MINA NGITHI LABABANTU ABAQUPHULE INJANJI ZAMANGISI BANGAMAGWALA.

They are cowards of the worst order. I say so because, if you are a warrior, you must fight warriors like you. If you are defeated on the battle field, and you turn your frustration on civilians, then you are a STINKING COWARD.

IF YOU CAN NOT FIGHT A WAR, THEN NEVER EVEN CONTEMPLATE TAKING UP ARMS.

It was on this principle that we built ZPRA. We believed that we should not HASTEN in our PLANS. Because ungenza amawala ziyakuxaka izinto and you will turn your frustration on people you claim to be fighting for. War is for warriors.

Count us too when it is time.

THIS MUST BE A LESSON TO ALL WHO WANT ITILATILA.

Li Zwangendaba. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mdala this is language I understand; fighting language from a fighter in a fight I am ready to join in fighting too.

I hope I will be ready to fight like a man, like a soldier.

I hope I will never be one of those people who targets a West African cleaning lady who worked all night and was on her way to college because Bush and Blair are imperialists!

I hope I will never be arrogant enough to say that the people who killed here were anything but cowardly murderers.

Well what l know is that Uk was very sensitive before to the issues regarding lslamic fundamentalism and terrorism and thus why the took part in coalition of the willing invasion of the lraq

Baba Zwangendaba
Lapha sikhulu uqedile njalo uyibeke kahle-hle indaba yakho le engaseNhla.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by nqojah:
<strong> Well what l know is that Uk was very sensitive before to the issues regarding lslamic fundamentalism and terrorism and thus why the took part in coalition of the willing invasion of the lraq </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Those of us who opposed the invasion of Iraq explained as the UK's security services explained that the invasion would very likely lead to the intensification of what I shall refer to as UK based "fundamentalist hostile mass anti-civilian activity"(to spare those of you of a delicate disposition who prefer not to call what happened "terrorism" as I am sure you prefer not to describe Mgabeism as "terrorism").

Unfortunately the British do believe in taking action it deems correct whatever the consequences.

They are also inclined to believe that if people
such as the Muslim religious authorities across the world condemn this "fundamentalist hostile mass anti-civilian activity" as terrorism then it is terrorism.

I must advise these silly British people to visit Inkundla where there are greater experts on Islam than anyone else in the world who will explain how arrogant it is to call murderers murderers.

I always thought Ndebeles have suffered so much they know the ten thousand ways that killers justify their killing.

Maybe I am wrong.

I always thought Ndebeles have suffered so much they know the ten thousand ways that killers justify their killing. Mtshede
.....................................................................................................

What about oppressors? don't they justify their oppression? Madoda let us face the truth, lapha we don't seek to be right or wrong, or to make somebody look stupid or whatever, we don't despise the George Bush's arrogance for the sake of it, but only as a quest for justice and fairness. We can not support something only because we have been subjected under the same conditions, i say no and no again, it must be known that we do not support terror at all, but we support all people who stand up to redeem their rights and freedoms world wide. Is there a poplitical mature man who can take serious what people express as expressions of solidarity at times of carnage. It is an open secret that people can take advantage of these events to express what they don't mean, therefore i wouldn't take these expressions seroiusly whether from Muslims or form Mugabe.
Mugabe is a terrorist, finish and Klaar, anyone who thinks to the contrary its his or her own fault.

Sibs you know I respect robust debate.

You know I also respect you personally.

I will return to the arena tomorrow.

I just wanted to say these things first.

Slight diversion bafethu

Is this a form of terrorism? Do we condemn or condone or do we say they are at WAR?

KwaMjaji, good post. I would have no difficulty in defining this as terrorism.

Bafowethu.

Ka Mjaji, lo baba u Mtshede. I agree with you totaly. This is cowardice of the worst order. Kanti umuntu nxa ama sendles akhe eluma yini engadingi abafana laye to prove he is a man???

Size sedlulwe zinkomo bantu benkosi??? Ngakhulela ekhaya bantu, angizange ngiyibone inkunzi isukela amathole le nkomokazi ngoba ikhutshwe ngezinye. Qha!!!

Lokhu kuyenyanyisa.

Li Zwangendaba.

MaKhosi

Zwangandaba lakwethu ngiyakuzwa nsizwakuzwa uthi wena iyaze yabhodlela ematholeni lamankomanzi kodwa iya esidulini isidlithidlithize icije iphindele emangweni yebo kambe.

buka impi elwiwa e-Iraq njengesibonelo, uhlobo lwamabhomu leziqushumbisi ezithelwa phezu kwezindlu zabantu kudingwa lamalwecatsha. kambe akudali umfutho lokudinga ukuphindisela na?

abanye sebesele bengoyedwana abaselabani amaB2 achitha ukufa ebusuku into abayenza e-Iraq yiyo xathu eyenziwa nguMgabe kithi ethi kulabahlamuki loGeorge laye wathi kulezikhali zembubhiso imbongi yabantu iyabuza ukuthi zitholakele na lezizikhali? wavuma ukuthi they acted on false intelligence.

impi yeAfghanstan leyeIraq sezitshebelene kodwa bezehlukene eyeAfghanstan was very justifiable after the barbaric act of 911 which the whole civilized world stood together to condemn. eyaseIraq is a pure primitive invasion of a nation or a people just like Mugabe's notorious 5th brigade sanctioned on false intelligence the main purpose is to unhillate a people.

mina ngokwami i don't support any killing of anykind. Saddam is a despot so is Mugabe and his african cadre, if it was violation of human rights and civil freedoms, democracy and other religio-political liberties as prescribed by western powers Tony Blair as Zimbabwe's current former colonial master,his boys were to march straight to Zvimba for an effective regime change

Western powers receive a square blame on this miasma. most of these whoresons, these humanmongers are trained in the US and Europe.
US and Europe were pre-dominantley christian which they effectivelly bastardised to appease their insatiate thirst for sin. religious dogmas saw the founding of the Americas by leaving Europe, and religious freedoms, which were as heinous and sinful as European dogmas, saw the steming of the current US constitution which abolishes christianity and fosters and bolsters eastern and middle-eastern indoctrinations and brainwashes. Little did we know that our condemnation of inhuman deeds stems from little religous education we learnt at primary school, it sculptured our mindset so is islam to it's people and any other religion. i doubt that if these American Moslems will do the same if they grew up on stories like the good samaritan and other altruistic biblical stories which shaped our childhood into somewhat responsible adult, a survey shows that soon after the banishment of christianity from the western classroom saw juvenile delinquency ,deviance and desonance skyrocketing. some of these suicidals are born and bred in a free western environment they go to school and learn how to make explossives some formulas are downloaded from the internet! America is giving religious freedoms to a people who do not need it who are not ready to receive it they are entrenched in their dogmas and hiding behind their sanctimonious facade, yet they oppress their women raping and stoning them in the name of religion, how do you grant religious liberty to such a pandemic form of religion? it is only in America were one comes and do as they pleases. if you come to my house you do as i do so is in Rome.

can anyone go to Iraq, Iran, Afghanstan, Pakhistan and all the Islamic world and claim that he/she is a christian therefore the education system should banish Muhhamad because he is inconsistant with christian beliefs, they will stone you if you are lucky, guess what the christian world is ready to throw their beliefs out of the window to accomadate other religions by that they are selling their countries foolishly. in Canada, for example, the Shieks will be owning Ontario's voter's roll soon and the whites will be a minority and these guys will be law makers very soon ramadan will be a provincial holiday in Ontario or face the unforgiving wrath of the sharia law.

this is a religious war against ideologies infused in the mind guns and bombs will only exacerbate the situation. i want someone, a true moslem to deny that the Quaran teaches about a western power invading the
"mess-or-potamia" and the invasion of Iraq came as the fulfillment of this prophecy? and tell us what every true moslem is admonished to do to these zionist the infidels and comment on the victory.

the only victory for allied forces is to pullout and accept their flaw or rectify the Geneva convention and incinerate everything because this thing will never end last night 05/07/16 on CBCNews they were estimating insurgency at more than 100 000 which have infiltrated Iraq since the war started and people convert into Islam in thousands worldwide everyday! if all these suicidals are extremists and fanatics then they are quite a number which is a justifiable quantity to lable the religion thus.

not all moslems are suicide bombers but all suicide bombers are moslems period.

Bafowethu.

Ngiyavuma Lembe. U Bush laye wenza ubugwala ngokusukela u Sadam, isitha sakhe esingu Bin Laden esazi lapho esicatshe khona. There is no justifying into abayenza e Iraq. Whilst I agree with you ukuthi into abayenza emazweni ama Muslim yiyo edala ubukliwi lobu esibubona busenziwa yiwo ama Muslim, ANGIVUMELANI LAWO AMA MUSLIM ukuthi asukele i Povo ngoba izalwa lo Bush.

Ungatshaya i Pentagon, ngithi "msila wembuzi". Ungatshaya i Twin Towers ngiyakusola ngize ngiyekufa.

Khangela thina ku ZPRA, u Smith wasi Bhomba e Zambia, savuka silumathisa amafutha akhe. The same fuel he was using to fly the airplanes to come and bomb us. Asizange sisukele amakhiwa siwatshisele ezindlini ema Suburb abo.

That is what war should be. If civilians die, it should be by accident like the Viscount Issue ku Zambezi Valley. That airplane was hit in the "WAR ZONE". ZPRA did not go to Salisbury Airport and hit that airplane, it was hit flying over a military war zone. Lelo liqiniso, the Zambezi Valley was a war zone.

Kayilwiwe ngaleyo ndlela imbi, not these loinskin wetting cowards like i Gukura who sneek on you in your sleep.

Li Zwangendaba.

I am not sure what's going on here, three of these guys don't look Asian but rather black kumbe mixed race!

<img src="http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41333000/jpg/_41333025_suspect_four_203x152.jpg" alt=" - " />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> It is indeed saddening that some people can be still perpetrate such barbaric acts just to gain unwarranted publicity. My sympathy goes to all those affected at this difficult moment </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Saddening indeed???

I think I have a problem with some of the things which people end up saying. Yes it might be babaric BUT these people are at war. At war against the system which is oppressing them. At time I end up supporting these acts.

Its unfortunate that we tend to be brainwashed by the western media too much that everything which is not western is evil.

Let them suffer for the evil things they are doing to the people of Iraq, the people of Afghanistan, what they did to the people of Africa and what they are doing and did to people fro different walks of life. When they were doing that what did they think was gonna be the outcome?

Selfish people need such a treatment. People must not complain. These people are targeting the system which is oppressing them and I'm saying tough luck to those caught in the cross fire.

No-one is condeming what they are doing in Iraq but is quick in condeming the death of only I will repeat only 50 Brittons. during the same week, a large number of Kenyans died and nothing was said Why. Should I cry with those who think they are more superior to other races? I do not think so.

Let them face the music. Yes I do not know the next target of these freedom fighters BUT as long as I am in the UK if I'm hit tough luck, I am making the system what it is.

How many innocent civilians have they killed in whatever operatin they partake in?

They are ruthless they do not even care the after effects. They were used to Africans where they just go and plunder the resources and Africans because they do not know what to do they just keep quite and allow this thing to happen. Now these guys kow how to play the game, lets watch and see them play it.

The other thing is what is the definition of a TERRORIST? Whose got the universal definition of a Tororo? When they invade they are not terrorist when we deffend ourselves we are terrorist, I think these people are stupid.

When people cry for the few peole killed it makes me sic. What about the multitudes being killed by their forces are they not people.

They should review their foreign policies.

They should know that thats part of the price for the Oil they are syphoning from those regions.

Okubi kubi akusolwe, okuhle kuhle akunconywe. Ukubulala kubi, sizatho oro no sizatho. When an argument degenerates into a fight, both parties are in the wrong for partaking in the fight. If the argument degenerates into one party clobbering another party who does not retaliate then the clobberer is guilty but only as long as the other party does not lift a finger in retaliation. As soon as the clobbered party raises a finger in an attempt to retaliate, both parties become equally guilty.

Kwethu thina ebusili sejwayele ukuvusana lezinyamazana kuphela lapho sithola kuzo okokudla, asikwazi ukuthi umuntu uyahlatshwa enziwe ugazana.

Asazi njalo bakwethu.

Msupa,

The funny thing Msupa is that the Iraqis are even killed by these chaps. They kill Iraqis in their large numbers just like their enemies. Where is the difference between these suicide bombers and the occupiers?

Let us remember that many people opposed Tony's and Bush's war and protested in large numbers in the streets, so why should they be the targets when they put their message through but politiicans would not listen to them?

At the sametime I agree with your sentiments on the issue of occupation. Ngeke ibekahle leyo ndaba and the Iraqi occupation is evil pure and simple.

Mthwakazi


Yintoni le???

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm

I will not speak. Is this not babbaric. Let me hear someone condeming this.


Thank you Sinatha

I thought Blair had a landslide victory kuma elections.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think I have a problem with some of the things which people end up saying. Yes it might be babaric BUT these people are at war. At war against the system which is oppressing them. At time I end up supporting these acts.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am afraid this may sum up the above tragedy. Reading the rest of the text from which this was extracted may shed more light as to why this happenned.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Frankly, it doesn't matter whether he is a Muslim or not, he is a human being.

there it comes again, "religion" is showing it's ugly head.

the question is how w'ld the allied forces fight dogmatic and heinous ideologies infused in the mind. what identifies and motivates a suicide bomber? is it race, tribe,outfit,language,religion,
money or what? only quantities of identical value cancel each other.

Imagine if

Just imagine if this was done lets say in Zimbabwe. What could be the headlines?

Mugabe's police slaughters an opposition supporter.
The Babbaric regime at it again.
In human acts in Zimbabwe.

How was it going to be potrayed by the Western Media??
I think by now the UN will be on its way to Zimbabwe.

Because it the UK everything is just unfortunate it happens and life goes on.

People are you seeing what I am seeing. Are these the human rights from the civilised society?

Sir Ian Blair told Sky News: "This is a tragedy. The Metropolitan Police accepts full responsibility for this. To the family I can ONLY express my deep regrets."

Kunzima emhlabeni.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Msupatsila:
<strong> Mthwakazi

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm

I will not speak. Is this not babbaric. Let me hear someone condeming this.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It's a tragedy and it's very unfortunate. But it is not barbaric. Everyone is on the edge in London and lessons are being learnt.

What constitutes a breath of freshened air is that this supposedly barbaric regime opens its borders for all types of asylum seekers. They also accept responsibility for their actions, mistakes or not. All involved in the above event will, no doubt, be made accountable for their actions. Let us see our beloved kinsmen match this then we can critically assess the culpability of this nation that has hosted even criminal elements fleeing their own homelands because of their crimes.

Abisha Moyo was fortunate.

He was just a Bulawayo boy who looked at a suicide bomber and survived.

One day a bomb is going to explode in Bulawayo like the bombs in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi and then a lot of Ndebeles who support the people who plant bombs are going to bleat like Zanu PF supporters.

I am just a stupid white man but I don't think we need that shit.


But Ndebeles kiss your orphaned arses goodbye.

That shit is coming.

Zwangendaba ngicela ukukuthi ngizwa izindaba.

When civilians die in military encounters it is regrettable.

The men who downed the Viscounts were men.

They never expected 72 virgins after death.

They were prepared for death.

They expected life.

If they live I will fight beside them against the Harare horror, to the death.

I am sorry about that Brazilian chap.

Why did he run?

Noone could afford to be sorry or saddened by the death of this innocent Brazillian and at the sametime point the cause of his death at his "feet". I am quite convinced that this man did not run, if he did i am quite convinced that he was not aware that he was being trailed, London is a busy City, i have seen many people running there, i am convinced that the explanations we are given are there to justify the death death of an innocent man, the police made a grave mistake and they must pay dearly for that.

Whether Ndebeles will get bombed one day by these fellows has nothing to do with the problems of "terrorism" First we must accept that there are fundamental causes of this and i am affraid the finger points at our door steps. If we do not acknowledge this simple fact of life then the problem will continue, many more innocent people are still to die and we have to blame noone else but ourselves, our arrogance, egos and superiority complexes. The thing is we must start opening dialogue with the so called terrorists, we must not dismiss them at face value, it is not a form of capitulation nor admission of defeat, but it is the right thing to do, it is a step in the right direction, it is a step to noramilising human relations. Noone must be called uncivilised, because this brings prejudice and anger. A channel of dialogue with a man like Osama Bin Laden must never be closed, but must remain open. This might be taken stupidity, but as a man whose people were called terrorists for fighting for their freedom i understand this better.

Why did he run? Some people may ask.

Maybe those people asking this question want to look at why Mr. Jean Charles de Menezes was being chased in the first place. It's a pity the police and public are now having to face up to this tragedy when the fault lies with the ineptitude of the British Intelligence.

This is the same attitude of alienating Muslims or anyone that looks like a Muslim which on the one hand the other hand is being discouraged by the authorities. Yet on one they want to justify their shoot to kill policy on the basis of suspicion and worse still armed with flawed intelligence.

Why did he run?

What a question.
Fortunately today we got a clue on why he ranaway. Even though I still believe its a silly excuse being given by Blair and his followers.

Imagine yourself meeting w squad of plain clothed people with guns and they stop you what will you do. I think the police should have also realised that they were in plain cloth. Maybe the guy thought they were thugs asazi.

I am imagining myself in the streets of Gugulethu and these plain clothed police officers who I have seen that they have been following me for a while and they try to stop me. what will make me not think that they are tsotsis?


My onw opinion is that Britain is hubering all sort of people, some claim political asylum and some commit big crimes in their countries of origin BUT they find a safe heaven in the UK. After that what else should we expect.

The other think is how did this Al-Qaeda thing start? Who funded their activities and why? Why was is fine at that time and why is it not good now?

The British governemt has exposed itself to these Bombers, they panic too much, to the extent of killing innocent civilians. The bombers now know their softsports.

London is burning.

Collateral damage yiyo eyenzakale kumBrazilian. The intelligence could have been flawed, yebo kuyavela, but it leaves a sour taste ekutheni the guy should have prevented his untimely demise ngokuma.

Msup, mfanami lapha i arguement yakho iyavuza jo. The area esikuyo is very different from Gugulethu. Ngeke ubalekele umbobho useduzane khonapha usukukhombile (Bruce Lee lo Jackie Chan kuphela). Any sound person ungamiswa ngumuntu ophethe umbobho uyama. Why did he run eqe lama barriers and down the escalator to e stimeleni? He knew pretty well isimo esikuso ukuthi people will be trigger happy. He ran ngoba elesazela sakhe (wether justified or not).

If on the other hand ngabe ujaha lo ubelidelakufa and he was not shot, besizabesitshinga namuhla sisithi the ineptitude emapholiseni, why bengamdubulanga. Bantu, it is a split decision in the field that an individual has to take ukudubula.

This was a very unfortunate incident, yebo ukufa komuntu kulusizi, but I think sekuphehlwa isivunguzane enkomitshini ye tea.

hmmmmmm Sgero ngiyakuzwa mfowethu. Uhlupho nantu lapha Sgero, abantu laba abamhlophe balohlupho lokuthi ngani bekuyisizalwane sabo esidutshulwe safa kwelinye ilizwe, ngabe sokungumsindo omangalisayo.

Hatshi ufile ujaha asazi, ngithemba indaba yakhona izangena emthethwandaba sizezwa ukuthi bazayicubungula njani.

Ngiyakuzwisisa mfowethu.

Ukubona kwakho izinto kuyangijabulisa mpela, qhubekela phambili ngokuxoxisana labanye ngesineke. Uyindoda emadodeni wena. Wena uyayilonda kakuhle indaba ngiyabonga.

UJaha lo udutshulwe esenguntu okhubekileyo wawela phansi, ngubani ongathi bebengasoke bamdubule nxa kuyikuthi akamanga. Bebezamenzani njengoba bebe khumbula ukuthi ugqoke umaquphula? iControlled explosion? I think his fate was already doomed already, he would have been shot anyway to immobilise him.

Ngizwe banye njalo beyithsi lindawo yeStockwell ukuthi vele kayilunganga. Ingalinganiselwa sibili le Gugulethu.

I still wonder why the man ran.

And I still say, it was wrong to shoot him, and we should make all the (intelligent) noises necessary in such scenarios. Being emotional about it may cloud not only our judgement but may deem the lucidity of our case murkier.

I still say a man running on to an underground train wearing a bulky coat ignoring the shouts of armed policemen to stop might have been the next man to make a bomb explode killing many innocents.

And I think those of us whose lives are in London need to exhibit the fundamental intellectual integrity to say this man De Menezes was as much a victim of terrorism as all the people who were blown to Kingdom come on the 7 July.

And I think all the people who are naive and misguided enough to think the bombers somehow are associated with the struggles for justice and development across the world need to ride the trains and travel on the buses and follow their consciences as best they may.

"fundamental intellectual integrity" was pun intended Mtshede?

May it suffice to mention ukuthi as uMthwakazi we need to avoid ukuba ngothathekile imota zebuswiina. 'Okubi kubi, akusolwe. Okuhle kuhle, akunconywe'(Siphepheli). Let us exercise caution and sizikise imicabango before jumping onto these 'holier than thou' bandwagons. 'Masixukuziseni ingebhezi,...siyeke uhubhu.'(Mntongenakudla)

In my indulgent white way I occasionally try to look at the lives of Ndebeles in London.

People who came here in the 60s and 70s as refugees from my alleged Uncle Smith.

People who came here in the 80s 90s and 00s as refugees from their alleged Uncle Mgabe.

Their suffering piled suffering on suffering.

You know what?

They never bombed buses and trains in London.

But they do commute on buses and trains in London and they work hard and they try to support their families at home.

On the other hand you get some little Pakistani wanker whose mummy and daddy came here to work in the 60s and wanted their children to grow fine and strong.

But the children grew stunted emotionally and twisted psychologically then came to London to kill and die.

Or you get some Eritrean or Somali who came to the Uk and was given refuge and social welfare support to the tune of tens of thousands of pounds then they or their children went out to kill and die.

I will spare my tears of sorrow for those who deserve it.

Those of who you are apologists for those who die on buses and tubes may you die on buses and tubes.

I will go to your funerals and say with tears streaming down my face you died to support a cause you believe in.

You supported death so you got it.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ndebele rads onanistically you support Islamist terrorism.

You do it partly out of ignorance.

You do it also out of cowardice.

You are too scared to go home and fight the Maddest of Mullahs, Mgabe.

Much easier to stay in London and support Al Qaeda.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Cowardice or ubugwala, call it what you will.

It uses big words.

It's always so transparent.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by barry:
<strong> "fundamental intellectual integrity" was pun intended Mtshede? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What pun, (if you excuse my slowness)?

Mtshede

Ndebele rads onanistically you support Islamist terrorism.

You do it partly out of ignorance.

You do it also out of cowardice.

You are too scared to go home and fight the Maddest of Mullahs, Mgabe.

Much easier to stay in London and support Al Qaeda.Mtshede
...................................................................................................
Mtshede let me get you well, are you saying we are ignorant because we are Ndebeles or because we do not agree with you on this one?
Are you saying we are cowards because we are Ndebele or What?
Who said that were scared to fight Mgabe?

kenibuze Mashabezulu

did he actually run?

Didn't he, then?

Some reports say the police did NOT identify themselves in this case.

Would the victim have heard the fuzz i.d'ing themselves had he not been running, or rather, had he not run? What about the warnings to 'get down' that the witnesses heard except the victim (apparently he continued running helter skelter amid the shouted warnings)?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Sibambamahawu:
<strong> Mtshede

Ndebele rads onanistically you support Islamist terrorism.

You do it partly out of ignorance.

You do it also out of cowardice.

You are too scared to go home and fight the Maddest of Mullahs, Mgabe.

Much easier to stay in London and support Al Qaeda.Mtshede
...................................................................................................
Mtshede let me get you well, are you saying we are ignorant because we are Ndebeles or because we do not agree with you on this one?
Are you saying we are cowards because we are Ndebele or What?
Who said that were scared to fight Mgabe? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Have I ever equated ubuNdebele with ignorance or cowardice?

I am talking to the Ndeble rads (radicals) who support the bombings.

This is a forum for Ndebeles is it not?

Please tell me whether you feel insulted and if so why and I will tell you whether I intended to insult you and if so why.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bhudaza:
<strong> Some reports say the police did NOT identify themselves in this case. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please be kind enough to refer me to those reports.

Have I ever equated ubuNdebele with ignorance or cowardice?

I am talking to the Ndeble rads (radicals) who support the bombings.

This is a forum for Ndebeles is it not?

Please tell me whether you feel insulted and if so why and I will tell you whether I intended to insult you and if so why. Mtshede
.................................................................................................

Yes, Mtshede i feel insulted because i think you think that i am a coward because i am an Ndebele. I feel insulted because differing with you has earned me a bad name as a Ndebele of being ignorant. If that's how you feel its fine Mr Mtshede, i have never in anyway bragged of being clever or intelligent, but i believe that in life we must not agree just for the sake of agreeing or fearing to hurt Mtshede or me, that will not in anyway help us to elavate the debate to dizzy heights. Sometimes i differ with myself so why should i not differ with anyone else? Seeing things the way i see them does not at all subtract or obliterate the respect i have for you. D i have to call you names only because you see things differently?, my answer is no, it might be that you view things from your angle and that i view them from mine. Both of us might be right or totally wrong depending on the angles we view things from and the interpretation assigned to our experiences.
One thing i can assure you is that you will not hear of a Ndebele suicide bomber in the West, but i can not rule out the possibility in, somewhere else, do you catch my drift?

Mtshede!

I do not support any form of violenxce. Diplomacy should win the day by all means possible. But we know the instigators of wars the world over,it is the few billionaires who want to protect their profit margins. I will not name it "terrorism" ngoba my father and brothers in ZAPU and ZIPRA were called terrorists by Ian Smith. I know they were not terrorists.
I do not support the bombings in London nor do I support the bombings in Iraq, Cosovo, Afghanistan, Vietnam you name it!

What I do not like to see is peeple crying foul only because London has been bombed forgetting the women and children of Iraq who are daily on the run when we all know it's not about their democracy! It is about the zillionaire oil industry owned by a few individuals!! Asiphaphameni sonke!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mtshede:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bhudaza:
<strong> Some reports say the police did NOT identify themselves in this case. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please be kind enough to refer me to those reports. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Heard it on BBC Radio London, Drive time. Sorry I cannot reproduce the report for obvious reasons. If it is true, I am not surprised that other reports are saying nowt. His family apparently revealed that he was wearing a jean jacket, not a padded one.

Hayi Lady Mabila when did you ever think I have ever insulted you?!

And as for you Sibs I feel very insulted by the fact that you felt I could insult you.

Budaz thanks, I will carry on looking into the matter of why this poor guy was shot.

Reports coming in say the Brazilian man that was murdered by cops on the tube DID not run,he got in normally by swiping his ticket unaware that the evill forces have marked him to please the innocent British public and was restrained first before he was shot 8 times,what a callous murder and typical of the old UK police racist makeup which we thought had reformed.
POLICE commissioner Sir Ian Blair should resign.

On the 25 of July i wrote as follows on this very thread:
I am quite convinced that this man did not run, if he did i am quite convinced that he was not aware that he was being trailed, London is a busy City, i have seen many people running there, i am convinced that the explanations we are given are there to justify the death death of an innocent man, the police made a grave mistake and they must pay dearly for that.

As Maqha said on his post above, right now i am watching Sky News and the news testify to what Maqha wrote above.

Sibamba
On that July 25 you rightly predicted how the events might have happened.

Inhlwa kayibanjwa ngekhanda! Nomakanjani!

Well ladies and gentlemen, l would like to make an assertion that we are hereby embarking on a premature debate, basing my statement on the fact that an inquiry, by both the lndependent Police Complaints Commission(lPCC) and the so-called Home Office internal investigation suggested by lan Blair himself,are still underway.But the initial police account that de Menezes had refused to obey the police instructions,may be a distortion of facts.There are reports coming out about a leaked police document saying eyewitness accounts show the Brazilian was, 1) Not wearing a padded jacket,2)was walking calm through the station and, 3)even stopped to collect a free newspapaper.All this is outrightly contrary to press statements made by lan Blair.So bakoMthwakazi,l will personally suggest that we adjorn this indaba until sufficient facts and figures are put on the table.Lets avoid being perilously opinionated. Singiyahamba!

mninimuzi
If you live in the UK you will know or realise that any LEAKED document before has always been proved to be true and same as the official report.In official UK issues or circles the word leak is a euphemism of the real thing.
I am sure on this shooting incident the official report will say the same thing just as the leak.If not that will be a first in this country and I will be first to own up that I rushed into conclusions.

The day after the incident, I heard a witness speaking on a news TV channel. They said they had seen the Brazilian man run into the train being pursued by plain clothes officers. This witness' account tied up well with that of the police. Was this "witness" lying? Have some sections of the British public been coerced into giving false testimonies?

Sizabona lapho kuzawela khona induku lo xakuxaku.

The same witnesses are in today's "The Telegraph" saying that what they had believed then to be the suspect jumping over the ticket barriers were infact plain clothes policemen.

Lindaba.

uPope wake washo naye ukuthi babi abantu laba.

Babi abantu laba ngiyaphinda. Baningi ababesola umuyi nansi indaba imane ivele nje. Usahoho wamapoyisa nango uselwela umsebenzi wakhe ngokubana wamane wahumutsha nje evikela izigebenga zakhe.

Ngoba ngokungumuntu kwezizweni (British context) okwabulawayo kabanandaba.

Koze kubafice labo I bet.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid...-name_page.html

Kunensizwa esayina "timed silence ...." thats true ngiyabonga mfowethu lami I'll not speak for now.

If it was a Briton killed kwelinye ilizwe ngani sebaxolisa baze bazitshiya ngiyabheja

Kanti lesositeshi sona ngesinjani esingela maCCTV cameras?
Mina as far as l know,the entire united kingdom is infested with cctv cameras and many mystique cases have been solved through them.Kanti kuleyi case why kungakhulunywa ngamacctv cameras?
l smell fish!!!!

Impendulo engingayitsho ngeyokuthi, lindaba ingacutshungulisiswa, izatshenisa ukuthi uhulumeni lengaja zakhe bayaphambanisa, ngakhoke, ukuze sikuvimbele lokho akumelanga sikusebenzise.

Ngibona kusengathi konke lokho sokwasetshenziswa njalo leqiniso liyazakala kodwa akumelanga livezwe, just for the sake of maintaining our integrity.

Ngiyabonga

Ingozi iyenzakala bakwethu. Njalo isehlakalo esinje sande ukudabula umphakathi phakathi naphakathi. Okungasenakuguquka nje wukuthi lensizwa ishonile, ilahlekelwe wumphefumulo wayo, phinde ivuke. Esisaphilayo singaze sisale sibulalana sibanga lesisehlakalo akusayikuwubisela umphefumlo walensizwa. Okubi kubi makusolwe, kodwa kungaze kwabangela ingqubelaphambili yenzondo lokubulalana.

Hatshi ke lapho uzangi xolela Mninimuzi, mina kangizsazi isiteshi esilama CCTV cameras. Nxa belawo, ayabe engawe security njalo engasi woku sakaza.

Uzathola ukuthi ukuze atholakale amaCCTV akhona kumele bacele kwabe Underground koda bona phela angithi sebawadlulisela emaphoyiseni, njalo amaphoyisa azakuthi kawangeke awatshengise umphakathi ngoba indaba isa cazuluwa!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by mninimuzi:
<strong> Kanti lesositeshi sona ngesinjani esingela maCCTV cameras?
Mina as far as l know,the entire united kingdom is infested with cctv cameras and many mystique cases have been solved through them.Kanti kuleyi case why kungakhulunywa ngamacctv cameras?
l smell fish!!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Ngiyabonga impendulo yakho Cde Potshoza.lam reliably informed that every train or metro station in this country has at least one cctv camera installed,and the purpose of thes cameras is not only for security reasons as you stated.lt is said cctv cameras were created as a social control measure and a deterrent to crime.l brought the issue of cctv cameras because l could not cease to be amazed by the fact that the public is constantly being bombarded by a plethora of inconsistancies on the same story.lnitial accounts said de Menezes was dressed suspiciously in a heavy coat on a warm day ,fled armed officers,vaulted over ticket barriers and ran on to a train.But the documents leaked to lTV indicate the opposite.They even say that he actually walked calmly through the station and stopped to collect a free newspaper before sitting down in the carriage.
All these contradictions can be solved by a mere glance to a motion picture from a cctv camera,as was the case with the identification of the `would-be` suicide bombers.

Ithi ingaba nkulu ingazekeki, nanko ke amaphoyisa asesithi esithitshini sakhona, ama cctv ayekhitshiwe ngoba becubungula indaba yezigelekeqe. Kunzima lapha, mina ngibona kusengathi bazama ukuvimbela iqiniso. Njengoba wonke umuntu kanye lama phoyisa babethe abantu kumele beqaphelisise, kangiboni, ukuthi babengakhipha ama cassette betshiye kungela lutho olwalu rekhodwa. Angitsho ukuthi umcabango wami uqondile kodwa engathi umangoye uyasola.

Mhlawumbe uBlair lo ngumzukulu ka mongameli. Lokhu kungitshenisa uku ezopolitiki ziyafana laloba ukuphi

Kambe? Topela tobona.

Topela tobona!!!!!!!!

uyabona lindaba liyibambe kahle kakhulu, kungathi nje makubekhona ok'shay'manzi. iqiniso liyovela izolo namhlanje nangomso. zinqunywa amakhanda zi... .

Inkundla I am ashamed and disgusted.

I am ashamed and disgusted by the naivety and rank stupidity I showed in being prepared to believe what I believed when Jean De Menezes was shot.

I am a fool and I was fooled.

My apologies and respects to all those with whom I argued in this matter of the callous killing of an innocent man and the subsequent attempt to provide a retrospective explanation for his killing.

You were right and I was wrong.

You smelled a cover up.

I was prepared to entertain the cover up.

I asked, "why did this chap run"?

Now I have my answer.

Angikusoli njalo angikuhleki ngendlela owakholwa ngayo ama pholisa kudaba luka Menezis, Mtshede. We are all a product of our systems. Ngithukuthela ngiswele ukuthi ngengule kanjani ubulembu obusemehlweni kaZulu emhlabeni jikele ngezehlakalo ezinengi emhlabeni lapha. Sihlezi phezu kwamanga labo fejafeja abesabekayo! The world is just NOT what it seems to be to many of us! Let us all strive to rediscover truth!

Ehhhhhhh Mtshede

Ehhhhh ndodana ngiyayikhumbula indaba yendodana yolahleko, ma kuyikuthi uyise wayivumela, wayixolela ngemva kweyakwenzayo kambe sesingakulahla na. Wena nguwe owenzani, angithembi ukuthi nguwe owabulala uJesu wena? Ngiyakubonga ngokuphumela kwakho enkangala uveza ukuthi babi lababantu babi sibili. Ngizaphinda babi mpela.

Hatshi woza ekhaya wethu babi, bana manga, ngivumelana lo sis Mabila ofejafeja lokunengi liqiniso.

Mtshede
Indoda ngenjalo baba, ethi lapho ibona amaphutha ayo ivume.
You are a man indeed some of us would not dare do what you have done.