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#28915 - 06/13/04 10:27 PM Re: Vukani Makholwa!!
Ndabezitha Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 268
Loc: T.O
Siphepheli:

Several years ago a book was published, entitled Beyond Death's Door by Dr. Maurice Rawlings. Dr. Rawlings, a specialist in Internal Medicine and Cardiovascular Disease, resuscitated many people who had been clinically dead. Dr. Rawlings, a devout atheist, "considered all religion "hocus-pocus" and death nothing more than a painless extinction". But something happened in 1977 that brought a dramatic change in the life of Dr. Rawlings! He was resuscitating a man, terrified and screaming ? descending down into the flames of hell:

"Each time he regained heartbeat and respiration, the patient screamed, "I am in hell!" He was terrified and pleaded with me to help him. I was scared to death. . . Then I noticed a genuinely alarmed look on his face. He had a terrified look worse than the expression seen in death! This patient had a grotesque grimace expressing sheer horror! His pupils were dilated, and he was perspiring and trembling ? he looked as if his hair was "on end."
Then still another strange thing happened. He said,"Don't you understand? I am in hell. . . Don't let me go back to hell!" . . .the man was serious, and it finally occurred to me that he was indeed in trouble. He was in a panic like I had never seen before."
(Maurice Rawlings, Beyond Death's Door,(Thomas Nelson Inc., 1979) p. 3).

Dr. Rawlings said, no one, who could have heard his screams and saw the look of terror on his face could doubt for a single minute that he was actually in a place called hell!

The Bible continually warns of a place called hell. There are over 162 references in the New Testament alone which warns of hell. And over 70 of these references were uttered by the Lord Jesus Christ!

In Luke 16, Jesus Christ gives a frightening picture of hell:

22 . . . the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father?s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:22-28)

HELL IS A PLACE OF FIRE HELL IS A PLACE OF FIRE

The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."

In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."

Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE."

THE BIBLE GIVES THE LOCATION OF HELL THE BIBLE GIVES THE LOCATION OF HELL

When Jesus Christ died on the cross, He descended into hell. In Acts 2, Peter is speaking, verse 31, " . . . seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in HELL"

When Jesus Christ died His soul went into hell.

And in Matthew 12:40, Jesus Christ says:

"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly: so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the HEART OF THE EARTH. "

The Bible is clear ? Hell is inside the earth!

Ephesians 4:9, says of Jesus: "Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH."

On page 85 of Beyond Death?s Door, Dr. Rawlings writes patients who described hell said, ". . . this place seems to be UNDERGROUND or WITHIN THE EARTH in some way."

Scientist and Bible teacher, Henry Morris also agrees the Bible plainly teaches that hell is in this earth:

"So far as we can tell from Scripture, the present hell, is somewhere in the heart of the earth itself. It is also called 'the pit' (Isa. 14:9, 15: Ezek. 32:18-21) and 'the abyss' (Rev. 9:2). . .
The writers certainly themselves believed hell to be real and geographically 'beneath' the earth's surface. . .
To say this is not scientific is to assume science knows much more about the earth's interior than is actually the case. The great 'pit' [hell] would only need to be about 100 miles or less in diameter to contain, with much room to spare, all the forty billion or so people who have ever lived, assuming their 'spiritual' bodies are the same size as their physical bodies."
(Henry M. Morris, The Bible Has the Answer, p. 220)

The Birmingham News, April 10, 1987 had an article entitled "Earth's Center Hotter Than Sun's Surface, Scientists Say". The article stated that scientists have recently discovered, "THE EARTH'S INNER CORE HAS A TEMPERATURE OF OVER 12,000 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT!"

Have you seen pictures of a volcano erupting, spewing a lake of fire from inside the earth ? consuming everything within miles just from the heat? When Mount St. Helens erupted in May 18, 1980, it was described by reporters, "when HELL surfaced upon the earth." The book, Volcanoes, Earth's Awakening (p.91) describes an erupting volcano as "descent into HELL".

Thousands of years ago, the Bible described a place called hell in the heart of the earth that matches exactly what science is discovering. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

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#28916 - 06/14/04 12:36 AM Re: Vukani Makholwa!!
GESTAPO Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 157
Loc: Mosul
Ndabezitha

try to consider this about the story of Lazarus and the richman:

1.if you are taking that literal, Christ teaches that the poor goes to heaven and the rich to hell. then read Jn 3:16

2.in hell the spirit or souls have mouths, tongues feel thirst then the body is the one which goes to hell, interesting.

3.people in paradise communicate and see those in hell which you located in the gut of the earth and Jesus went up to heaven.

4.those who go to heaven are in Abraham's bosom.

and you said Jesus used parables in your former posting . according to that story hell is closer to heaven you can communicate over the fence and hear each other.

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#28917 - 06/14/04 01:02 AM Re: Vukani Makholwa!!
GESTAPO Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 157
Loc: Mosul
makholwa the word hell simply means the grave, taken from the anglo-saxon verb meaning to conceal , to cover eg helling of a house meaning to roof it.

then if the bad die and go straight then few people are there coz mass graves have been unearthed with lot's of bones in them, since according to the story of Lazarus the whole body goes to hell.

consider these verses:
1. Amos 9:2 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">though they dig into hell thence shall mine hand take them </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">can humans dig into hell? hell fire does not kill, but volcanoes which come from there do kill like the one Ndabezitha mentioned above.

2. Ezekiel32:27 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">they shall not lie with the mighty...which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">soldiers are buried with their weapons in graves which archaeologists escarvet time after time in graves still not burnt. hell is the grave and hellfire is meant to destroy sin after judgement. this earth will be destroyed by fire. why and how then wicked are going to be judged if they are already in hell?

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#28918 - 06/14/04 02:59 AM Re: Vukani Makholwa!!
Mabila Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 2124
Loc: Ayowa
Uyitshaye ekhanda Ndabezitha. Yikho kanye ukuzwisisa kwami kwale indaba ikakhulu lapho uJesu esenikeze umphefumulo wakhe knona. My understanding as yours yokuthi waya into hell for the three days where he defeated the devil. I beleive there is a physical hell just as the bible says it in the sriptures you mention as much as I beleive all the words pronounced clearly and so eloquently by Jesus himself. Akudingakali ngcazelo enengi. We have ample time now to make straight our ways and not go into the hell of fire!

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#28919 - 06/16/04 05:50 AM Re: Vukani Makholwa!!
Siphepheli Offline
Ndunankulu
***

Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 741
Loc: Khonaph'ya Enkangala
Ndabezitha

Uxolo ngisuke ngangazwisisisi kumbe uvumelana lami kumbe hatshi. Mina ngibona angani lumlobi wayevele nje ezikhulumula eyakhe i'perception or interpretation' of the event he was taking part in. I think wayevele nje esezibona enjengoMdali njengoba wayesevuse abanengi ekufeni.

Indaba yoSindiso does not deal with our physical tangibles but with the spiritual. Ukuvuswa kwalaba bantu obatshoyo ngokuphysical. Ukuvuswa kwekupheleni kuspiritual. Masizameni ukungabheki
iZulu ngamehlo enyama ngoba vele awakaze akubone njalo awkwazi ukukubona lokho esikugcinelwe nguMdali eZulwini.

USathane akekho ku'hell' le elikhuluma ngayo, sihamba laye imihla lemihla nje kuwonalo umhlaba. So ukuthi uJesu amlandele ku'hell' ngibona kuyabe kuyingazwisisi ukuba oKwakhe kungaphezu kokwethu ngitsho langemicabango njalo siyabe siyayeyisa iNdodana kaThixo. UJesu wanqoba eSiphambanweni, langokuvuka kwakhe ethuneni.

As for Acts 2:31 ngilusizi ukuba ngitsho lokhu ukuba you quoted it out of context. I suggest you visit the whole of Chapter 2 before you misuse it.

Nxa igehe ligcinelwe abonileyo, pho njengoba uJesu, njengoba lusitsho uGwalo oluNgcwele, kazange one ekuwuhambeni lumhlaba wayesesiyadingani kulona? Don't you think ukuthi liyazigwenxa nje ngale i'argument'?

Le indima evela kuLuka, yi 'parable' and as such should not be taken literally.

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