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#29158 - 10/23/05 07:09 AM Re: Amadlozi ayaspana yini?
Zwangendaba Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 1399
Loc: New York, New York, USA
Bafowethu.

Doc, bala lo umbhalo ophezulu.

Li Zwangendaba.

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#29159 - 10/23/05 06:47 PM Re: Amadlozi ayaspana yini?
S'gwagwagwa Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 01/31/04
Posts: 36
Loc: Zimbabwe
Asazi,

Mina angizake ngibone, ngibale, kumbe kwenzakale kweyami impilo kumbe kwezabanye kumbe historically into engaba yievidence yokuthi ispirit world ikhona ngakho angilaso isizatho sokukholwa ukuthi amadlozi or ireligion yinto ekhona sibili ezimele yodwa sibili ngaphandle kwengqondo zabantu.

Yebo njengabantu aba self concious siyazibuza ukuthi savela ngaphi, umhlaba wadalwa ngubani then nxa siswela imphendulo sibesesidala uNkulunkulu. Mina ngithi njengobanje ulwazi lusanda nsuku zonke, ngokuhamba kwesikhathi kuzavela ukuthi umhlaba wadalwa ngubani lokuthi uNkulunkulu ukhona kumbe wavela ngaphi. Akumelanga ukuthi kube mysterious sihlale sibuzana ukuthi kuyasebenza kumbe akusebenzi kukhona kumbe akukho.

Mina ngibona angani amadlozi/unkulunkulu etc ayasebenza only in as much as they mentally/ psychologically predispose amapractitioners awo to what they are desiring or praying for.

Abantu abanengi khathesi eEurope bayaphila nje impilo zabo baphumelele, baluphale, bazifele bengakholwa lutho bengakhonzi lutho.

Umuntu angafa usefile sokuphelile sokufana lesikhathi engakazalwa. Akulalutho olwenzakalayo emhlabeni olutshengisela okunye ngaphandle kwalokhu.

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#29160 - 10/23/05 09:28 PM Re: Amadlozi ayaspana yini?
ILembe Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 05/01/05
Posts: 282
Loc: Tjolotjo
THE DEAD:A biblical perspective

lapha ngizakwethula ngesimo sabafileyo amadlozi, amasaints, amadimoni whatever we call them. note: this is a biblical perspective not a denominational doctrine or a tradition, but a study from the bible. most of the quotations are from the KJV unless noted otherwise. this is intended mostly for bible students, christian or nonchristian and is subjec to constructive biblical criticism not paralells from voodooism, zorostrianism,scientology,islam,humanism angeke ngizazi lezo but omunye angeza lazo sizizwe.

nanku umbuzo lemibuzwana engizazama ukuwuphendula:
1.what happens when you die?
a)Do you continue to live somewhere may be as a floating spirit?
b)Do you go to heaven or hell?

Within christiandom there are basically two theories 1. asleep in death 2.an immortal spirit/soul is set free from the body ( then the soul can go either to hell(Judas Iscariot),can go to heaven(mother Terressa,pope John Paul, Peter) or in purgatory where it can be freed by a living rerlative by paying money to the priests hence a famous phrase uttered by Johann Tetzel, a sixteenth-century German Dominican preacher: "As soon as the coin in the coffer rings; the soul from purgatory springs")

one theory is biblical and the other is pure man's tradition blended with biblical misconceptions which is a venomous doctrine. then which one is correct or biblical? more often than not, when one talks to a non believer the general response is that Jesus said judge not and you will not be judged which is very true. alas! judgement is only perceived by most as passing a negative predestination of another, did Jesus mean only that? by saying so and so is in heaven is that judgement? yes or no? definately it is, one theory is caught offguard already. don't do it.

Heaven vs Hell:Saints vs Sinners:Good vs Evil

as mentioned earlier some teach that sinners go straight to hell while the good guys shoot sraight to heaven as one guy said,about Carol Wojtola(sp) famously known as John Paul, " he is now in heaven where he has been eagerly waited for". let the bible judge his words. check what it say about King David, God says David is the man according to His Heart and even promissed him to bring the Messiah through his posterity. one will readily assume this man is certainly in heaven today. 100s of years the bible says in Acts 2:34 " For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, the Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand."

the bible is clear on this subject of going to heaven or hell. this is an ageold confusion and the apostle Paul has this to say, 1Ths 4: 13-18
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">13 But I would not have you to be ignorant,brethren, concerning them which are asleep/dead, that you sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them that are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">the qoutation is clear, if you profess to be a follower of Christ after your death you will have to wait for his second coming if you are dead He will resurrect you. Or you be transformed like Elijah, he did not see death and Enoch. Moses did die but Jesus took his body to heaven check Jude vs9. these are the only 3 guys who went to heaven so far and Jesus. man will say so and so is there already, biblical or tradition? man's tradition very unbiblical.

The immortality of the soul

well what is a soul? who has a soul? where does it go after death can it die or be killed? check Gen 2:7, " And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." simple algebra:

DUST + BREATH OF LIFE= A LIVING SOUL

a living soul, hypothetically there can be a dead soul lets see. there are two sources of matter in the above expression the dust is from the earth and the breath of life from God, and listen to wisdom, King Solomon has this to say,Ecc 12:7 " Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." this disintergration is called death. someone will say, ahahh! the spirit goes back to God after I die, therefore I'm going home to see Peter! not yet hang on.

who has this spirit/soul? is it yours or is it you? check this one out Rev 16:3"And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man:and every living soul died in the sea". Oh! so the fish, crab, turtle, algae, whales, are living souls too. what? but are we not suppossed to be better than foolish animals? intellectually yes, sometimes, but with regards to death we are all the same, the breath of life in you and that in a dog same fanana one material from God, but where do you get that? check this one out, Ecc 3:19 " For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth , so dieth the other; yea they have all one breath; so that man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity." continue to vs21. umoya ophila ngekati lakho lecimbi yiwo kanye okuwe.

Can then the soul be destroyed? by who?

thus saith the Lord: Eze 18:4 "Behold all souls are mine;as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die". complement by Mat 10:28. God can and will destroy sinful souls jus not yet( this is another topic of hell, whom does it belong to is it burning right noww etc etc?)

what then, can saints pass our petitions to God? by the way who are the saints? come on now you don't know saint Francis, Benedict, Paul, Mary,Santa(scrambled word satan)and many others? but the bible above proves these guys are not yet in heaven they are dead, and it says in Ecc 9:5 ff "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more reward: for the memory of them is forgotten." so they are dead, amadlozi? BUSTED! oMary laboPeter abasithandazelayo OUT!

manje ngobani amasaint? Rev 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus". so you can be a saint too while you are alive by keeping the commandments of God and having the faith of Jesus. Yahoo! Hooray! I'm a saint too! by faith!

what a read! lets prayerfully read our bibles those who can read don't wait to be told lies that your people die and go to heaven or they will do something when they are dead. do something while usawadla ungabhora finish.

the English saying which says, too many people want to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. BUSTED! foolishness, if you are dead no heaven if you remain in the grave when Jesus comes ulungele amalahle according to 1Ths 4:13-18 quoted above.

salang.

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#29161 - 10/23/05 11:36 PM Re: Amadlozi ayaspana yini?
sthutha Offline
Nduna

Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 304
Okuhle baba Zwangendaba ukuphawule wakubeka sobala.Mina ngedwa amadlozi ngiwakhonza ngingathikazi ngoba ngikhulele kuleyo nkonzo njalo ekefundeni kwami ngicine ngikubona ukuthi ukholo lwabelungu alusilo lwethu abansundu njengoba ukubeka nje baba.

Pho, kube sekusithi nxa infundiso enjalo ivele ingekho kumdeni womuntu kusuka kube nzima ukuthi ukuzwisise kumbe ukuchasise ngoba ngokukubeka kwabe lungu besethula olwabo ukholo kwaba lokweyisa kokholo lwaba nsundu to win them to their side.Kuyisifiso sami ukuthi abami abantwana ngibafundise ngokuthethela amadlozi akithi kwenzela lezo zizatho ozibeke ngaphambilini.Ngiyacabanga ukuthi ubaba ophansi nxa engananzelela ukuthi ngiyehluleka lokho angingitshaya ngoswazi ulubuhlungu kakhulu ngoba yena wangifundisa ukuthi awakithi amadlozi athethelwa njaini.

Phela nxa kuthethelwa kucelwa abakini abaleleyo abangamadlozi ukuthi balicelele kwabaphambili thina esingaba singabazi,kusiya kuNkulunkulu.Yikho kulezaga lezi esintwini:Hlonipha umzali wakho ukuze insuku zakho zande emhlabeni lesithi Indlela ibuzwa kwabaphambili.Zombili lezi zaga ziyasitshengisa ukuthi i-protocol ekhona ku foreign religions ikhona laku religion yoku thethela.

Kuyangiduduza Zwangendaba ukuthi akhona amajaha akithi njengawe labanye abangaka phandlwa yi cultural colonisation esiyibanayo abanye baze basonte amasonto ama-Shona in the name religion.

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#29162 - 10/25/05 06:51 PM Re: Amadlozi ayaspana yini?
S'gwagwagwa Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 01/31/04
Posts: 36
Loc: Zimbabwe
Kuhlasimulisa igazi lami ukuthi kulomuntu wesiNdebeleni ongakhonza esontweni elebizo lesitshoneni ngalezi insuku zanamhlanje. Sacolonizwa ngamakhiwa khathesi sesicolonizwe ngamashona asisazazi isizwe siyafa.

Ukuthi siphile impilo elemphumelelo kumele siphile eqinisweni njalo ingqondo zethu zigxile kureality. ispirit world ireal yini whether sikukhangela ngeBible kumbe ngamadlozi? Yinto ekhona na ngaphandle kwenqondo zethu. kumbe yisuperstition kuphela.

Ungaphila kuphela impilo yakho ulandela imithetho kahulumende kodwa ungakhonzi lutho ungathetheli kuyakuthini kanti? Kuyini okusenza sicabange ukuthi kulegehena lezulu lamadlozi izinto esingazake sizibone njalo ezingazake zibonwe muntu?

Singathi umuntu angafa usefile sokuphelile kulani kanti afterall yikho lokhu esikubonayo esikwaziyo.

ireligion kumele siyiqaphele ngoba zinengi kakhulu izinto ezimbi ezenzakala lapha emhlabeni partially or wholly justified by religious motives kusukela kubo 9/11, ukusodomiswa kwabantwana ngofather kusehla kusiya kubo colonisation, holocaust, crusades, apartheid, slavery, inquisition etc. Ungafunda ukuthi amaspanish/portuguese benzani befika esouth america ngegama likakristu uzadabuka inhliziyo.

Engizama ukukutsho lapha yikuthi whilst religion may seem to be a harmless pursuit ngenxa yokuthi ayixilanga kureality/truth inevitabli icina ilomona - nankhu kulabantu bakithi abangena ichurch okuthiwa yiguta ramwari - akula qiniso la!

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#29163 - 10/28/05 11:25 AM Re: Amadlozi ayaspana yini?
Dokotela Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1304
Loc: Emkhathini
Kanti manje yindaba kulo mutsho othi wona "kungani ufuna ukudla uhlezi njenge dlozi"?

Ngangisizwa abadala besithi, ungakhuluma kubi ulakho ukuhlanekelwa ngamadlozi. Umuntu engahlanekelwa ngamadlaozi, kuba njani?

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#29164 - 10/29/05 10:52 PM Re: Amadlozi ayaspana yini?
Zwangendaba Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 1399
Loc: New York, New York, USA
Bafowethu.

Doc, hk hk hk, uyangibulala ndoda.

Quote:_________________________________________________________________
Kanti manje yindaba kulo mutsho othi wona "kungani ufuna ukudla uhlezi njenge dlozi"?

Ngangisizwa abadala besithi, ungakhuluma kubi ulakho ukuhlanekelwa ngamadlozi. Umuntu engahlanekelwa ngamadlaozi, kuba njani?

_______________________________________________________________________

Awukho umutsho otshonjalo, Doc. Yikuganga kwabantu nje. Ikakhulu labo abeyisayo. Umutsho uthi: " Ungabokudla uhleli njenge NTWALA, loba UMKHAZA." Lapho kutshiwo loyo ofuna ukudla lapho angasebenzanga khona.

Ukuhlanekelwa kutsho ukudelwa lidlozi, (to be abandoned). This is the fear that we have thina abosiko. I HAVE TO BE HONEST WITH YOU ALL, SIYAYESABA LE INDABA YOKUHLANEKELWA.

Li Zwangendaba.

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#29165 - 10/31/05 08:10 AM Re: Amadlozi ayaspana yini?
Dokotela Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1304
Loc: Emkhathini
Zwangs, ngiqinisile mfo abantu bakujwayele ukuthi batsho njalo. Omunye ngamuzwa esithi "ah, leyana impintshi yasuzelwa lidlozi", ngingazi ukuthi kuyafana yini loku fulathelwa lidlozi, ngoba ukuzi liku suzele kumele liqale liku fulathele, beseli bhensa ke lithukulule imisipha.

Ungezwa bethi umuntu usebenela idlozi, umuntu wakhona uyabe engumnyanga wokucina. Ngumutsho njekuphela yini mfowethu Zwangs, kumbe yimvelo yamadlozi ukuthi ayakhothuluza lengcosana yenzuzo, umuntu asale engaphathanga nex?

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#29166 - 11/01/05 07:46 PM Re: Amadlozi ayaspana yini?
Zwangendaba Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 1399
Loc: New York, New York, USA
Bafowethu.

QUOTE:____________________________________________________________________

Ungezwa bethi umuntu usebenela idlozi, umuntu wakhona uyabe engumnyanga wokucina.

__________________________________________________________________________

Ungivumele ngiyedinga leli bala elithi "usebenela" ukuthi litshoni. Ngoba okwamanje angilazi, inyathi ibuzwa kwabaphambili.

Kodwa USIKO LO KHOLO lwesintu luthi, Idlozi akukho elingakuthatha kuwe. Wena nguwe oliphayo. Nxa uswele lalo liyakupha lokho elikwenelisayo. Ungabona ususehluleka ukuthola, akusikho ukuthi likuthathele, chaa!. Kuyabe kuyikuthi kaliselawo amandla okukunikeza lokho oyabe ukufuna wena. Yikho lapho okufunakala khona ukuthi uthethele. Ngatsho phambilini ngathi idlozi lalo liyadla bantwana beNkosi. Lilakho elikudlayo njengoba lathi sisidla nje. Umthethelo yiwo ukudla kwedlozi.

LUSIKO LWETHU LOLU. ANGILUDALI NGALUTHOLA LULANDELWA NGOKHOKHO LAMI NGIZALUQHUBELA PHAMBILI.

Singalibali ukuthi lingaze liphelelwe du ngamandla, awuselakho okwakho wena womndeni lowo walelo dlozi.

Amagabazi athanda ukugcona yibo obezwa belenkulumo ezingcolileyo zomsuzo. Ayikho inkulumo enjalo ngoba idlozi ngumoya wabazali bakho, kufana lokuthi uthi, "usuzelwe ngu nyoko". Lihlazo lelo. ngiyethuka njalo ngiyaxolisa ukuyiloba le nto enje. Ngiyilobela ukuthi siboneni ubuhlungu bayo. Ungixolele sibalukhulu, lomphakathi wonke.

MAKHOSI.

Li Zwangendaba.

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#29167 - 11/02/05 07:46 AM Re: Amadlozi ayaspana yini?
Dokotela Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1304
Loc: Emkhathini
Uxolo mfowethu, spelling error, bengizama ukuthi "sebenzela". Uxolo kakhulu, kuhle kwadunga imicijo ebengizama ukuyitsho.

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