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#29337 - 07/12/06 10:04 AM Re: Ama Sabatha Ko Mthwakazi??
Mangethe Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 195
Loc: Bulawayo
Yeah,sesizwile ngamaSabatha,yeah.Asike sizwe ngamaRoma phela
bakhonza isithombe sikaMaria,okuyinto engekho emthethweni. Lithini ngabo. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

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#29338 - 07/12/06 05:52 PM Re: Ama Sabatha Ko Mthwakazi??
zwide Offline
Ngqwele
*****

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 168
Loc: Lobengula
[]Zwide mina kangivumelani lawe nxa usithi amaSabatha angcwele. Lawo ngamanga sibili. Bonke abangena lelibandla balezono ezinkulu njalo kakho loyedwa ongcwele. Inengi liloku liqubela phambili lisona.
[/]


CAN YOU PLIZ TELL ME WHERE I SAID ALL THIS SIR ...?????.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead1.gif" alt="" />

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#29339 - 07/13/06 12:50 AM Re: Ama Sabatha Ko Mthwakazi??
ILembe Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 05/01/05
Posts: 282
Loc: Tjolotjo
lumezi

yes indeed this is a debating forum, and when debating one has to keep an open mind. 1. there are different kinds of texts, written texts, oral texts etc, therefore do not confine that statement within the limits of written texts i.e the bible from you argument. 2. when debating, one is allowed to use provebs, idioms, cliche, sarcasm (which happens to be my favourite)etc, however, it is the duty of the reader to notice these. i've heard that statement so many times and in most cases i know the son of perdition is behind all that. if you felt offended ngiyaxolisa topi akukho nkinga may be that statement is your punchline i'm not in anyway calling you a devil, ngiyashweleza njalo.
_________________________
maturity is of the mind, not of age, however, the magnitude of one's experiences is a function of one's age.

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#29340 - 07/13/06 07:04 AM Re: Ama Sabatha Ko Mthwakazi??
Gaselomhle Offline
Ndunankulu
*****

Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 517
Loc: Buqamama
Ekubeni lesisahluko sixoxwa abantu bebhekene ubuso lobuso ngileqiniso nga abanye sebeke badonsana ngamakhola. Kodwa ke one tends to wonder what it is that is at stake okuzanywa ukuxakululwa, especially in view of ama-interests of Mthwakazi as a nation. Kambe nxa uLobengula kumbe uMzilikazi ebengavuka lamhlanje abone izinto amanene lamanenekazi akoMthwakazi achitha isikhathi ezixotshanisa whereas umbuso uchithekile & abantu besizwe sakhe bayizikhonzi emazweni atshiyeneyo ubeyothini?
_________________________
>>Aspire to Inspire before you Expire<<

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#29341 - 07/13/06 04:24 PM Re: Ama Sabatha Ko Mthwakazi??
mninimuzi Offline
Nduna
*****

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 456
Loc: EMNQAMLEZWENI
Dear Mangethe,l really feel you have very misconstrued conceptions about catholicism.Get the facts rights.Akekho umkhatholika okhonza uMariya as you seem to be claiming.Catholics offer strong devotion and love to Mary for the following reasons.
Essentiallly Catholics have devotion to Mary but they dont afford Mary the same status as Jesus.
Mary is essentially important for numerous reasons.
She was bethrothed to Joseph and because of her faith uMariya waba ngokhethiweyo ukubana abengunina wendodana eyazalwa iyodwa.
She was born without original sin and hence sinless throughout her life.Her obedience and suffering deserve enough respect.Catholics only honour Mary because of her intimate connection with the son of God.They never pay homage to her but honour her.
Kungumkhuba wamakhatholika ukucela uMariya ukubana abathandazele kumsindisi,hatshi ukubana umsindisi abathandazele kuMariya.Kepha uMariya ungumhlangano phakathi kwami lomsindisi.Bangaki abacela mihla nemihla ukubana abafundisi labopastor babathandazele?
Kulomehluko phakathi kwesithombe le symbol of something.
Okwenzekayo kurozari yikubana sincenga uMariya ukuba asithandazele ..sikwenza lokhu ngoba sikwazi ukuthi uyingcitshi njalo ulobuciko kulokho.
lnengi ngobu layman approach lithi lona the attention paid
to Mary defocuses from Jesus.Yebo yikugabaza ngamazwi lokhu kodwa kubonisa ubulutshwane bolwazi umuntu alalo.KuLukha 1 verse 46 uMariya uthi yena 'my soul magnifies the lord'.Yikho ke baba Mangethe akekho umkhatholika okhonza uMariya.Munye kuphela umuntu okhonzwayo,ngumvelinqangi.
_________________________
Masiyephambili!
To err is humane..But when the eraser wears out ahead of the pencil,you are overdoing it.
lgeja libuya nenkankula

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#29342 - 07/14/06 02:13 AM Re: Ama Sabatha Ko Mthwakazi??
ILembe Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 05/01/05
Posts: 282
Loc: Tjolotjo
Mnini

xola ngokuba ngumathandindaba kwami. uthe uMariya wazalwa engela origional sin? kuyini i-origional sin? kanti ibhayibheli kayitsho ukuthi sonke sonile kakho ngitsho loyedwa umsulwa uMariya yena kabalwanga na? uJesu katshongo ukuthi nguye yedwa na osihlanganisa loBaba kanti njalo incwadi iyatsho ukuthi alikho elinye igama esosindiswa ngalo ngaphandle kwelikaJesu?

kanti uMariya kafanga na ngoba ibhayibheli licacile ngesimo sabafileyo? bala lokhu okungaphansi engake ngakwethula, uxole baba ezenkolo ziyangithathekisa kakhulu:

THE DEAD:A biblical perspective

lapha ngizakwethula ngesimo sabafileyo amadlozi, amasaints, amadimoni whatever we call them. note: this is a biblical perspective not a denominational doctrine or a tradition, but a study from the bible. most of the quotations are from the KJV unless noted otherwise. this is intended mostly for bible students, christian or nonchristian and is subjec to constructive biblical criticism not paralells from voodooism, zorostrianism,scientology,islam,humanism angeke ngizazi lezo but omunye angeza lazo sizizwe.

nanku umbuzo lemibuzwana engizazama ukuwuphendula:
1.what happens when you die?
a)Do you continue to live somewhere may be as a floating spirit?
b)Do you go to heaven or hell?

Within christiandom there are basically two theories 1. asleep in death 2.an immortal spirit/soul is set free from the body ( then the soul can go either to hell(Judas Iscariot),can go to heaven(mother Terressa,pope John Paul, Peter) or in purgatory where it can be freed by a living rerlative by paying money to the priests hence a famous phrase uttered by Johann Tetzel, a sixteenth-century German Dominican preacher: "As soon as the coin in the coffer rings; the soul from purgatory springs")

one theory is biblical and the other is pure man's tradition blended with biblical misconceptions which I think is a venomous doctrine. Then which one is correct or biblical? More often than not, when one talks to a non believer the general response is that Jesus said judge not and you will not be judged which is very true. Judgement is only perceived by most as passing a negative predestinating comment about someone , did Jesus mean only that? By saying so and so is in heaven is that not judgement? yes or no? Definately I think it is. One theory is caught offguard already. don't do it. Only God knows who will be in heavens cause he judgeth the intension of the heart we only know the outside which might be very deceiving.

Heaven vs Hell:Saints vs Sinners:Good vs Evil

As mentioned earlier on, some teach that sinners go straight to hell while the good guys shoot sraight to heaven as one guy said,about Carol Wojtola(sp), famously known as Pope John Paul II, " He is now in heaven where he has been eagerly waited for". Let the bible judge his words. Check what it says about King David, God says David is the man according to His Heart and even promissed him to bring the Messiah through his posterity, one will readily assume this man is certainly in heaven today. 100s of years the bible says in Acts 2:34 " For David is NOT ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, the Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand."

The bible is clear on this subject of going to heaven or hell. this is an ageold confusion and the apostle Paul has this to say, 1Ths 4: 13-18

quote:
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13 But I would not have you to be ignorant,brethren, concerning them which are asleep/dead, that you sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them that are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
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The qoutation is clear, if you profess to be a follower of Christ after your death you will have to wait for his second coming if you are dead He will resurrect you,this goes for Mary too, no exceptions. Or you be transformed like Elijah, he did not see death and Enoch. Moses did die but Jesus took his body to heaven check Jude vs9. these are the only 3 guys who went to heaven so far and Jesus. man will say so and so is there already, biblical or tradition? man's tradition very unbiblical.

The immortality of the soul

Well what is a soul? who has a soul? where does it go after death can it die or be killed? check Gen 2:7, " And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." simple algebra:

DUST + BREATH OF LIFE= A LIVING SOUL

If there is a living soul, hypothetically there can be a dead soul, lets see. there are two sources of matter in the above expression the dust is from the earth and the breath of life from God, and listen to wisdom, King Solomon has this to say,Ecc 12:7 " Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." this disintergration is called death. someone will say, someone will arrest me right here, the spirit goes back to God after I die, therefore I'm going home.

What ecxactly is this spirit/soul? Who has this spirit/soul? Is it yours or is this spirit you? Check this one out, Rev 16:3"And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man:and every living soul died in the sea". Oh! so the fish, crab, turtle, algae, whales, are living souls too. But are we not suppossed to be better than foolish animals? Intellectually yes, sometimes, but with regards to death we are all the same, the breath of life in you and that in a dog same fanana one material from God. Check this one out, Ecc 3:19 " For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth , so dieth the other; yea they have all one breath; so that man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity." continue to vs21. umoya ophila ngekati lakho lecimbi yiwo kanye okuwe.

Can then the soul be destroyed? by who?

Thus saith the Lord: Eze 18:4 "Behold all souls are mine;as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die". complement by Mat 10:28. God can and will destroy sinful souls jus not yet( this is another topic of hell, whom does it belong to is it burning right noww etc etc?)

What then, can saints pass our petitions to God? By the way who are the saints? Are they saint Francis, Benedict, Paul, Mary,Santa and many others? Phecelezi, good dead people as prescribed by the Roman church? But the bible above proves these guys are not yet in heaven they are dead, and it says in Ecc 9:5 ff "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more reward: for the memory of them is forgotten." so they are dead. Amadlozi? oMary laboPeter abasithandazelayo?

Manje ngobani amasaint? Rev 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus". According to the scripture one can be a saint too while he/she is alive by keeping the commandments of God and having the faith of Jesus.

Lets prayerfully read our bibles those who can read don't wait to be told lies that your people die and go to heaven or they will do something when they are dead. do something while usawadla.

the English saying which says, too many people want to go to heaven but nobody wants to die IS SCRIPTURALLY INCONSISTANT. If you are dead no heaven if you remain in the grave when Jesus comes ulungele amalahle according to 1Ths 4:13-18 quoted above.

salang.

























Edited by Lembe (07/14/06 11:28 AM)
_________________________
maturity is of the mind, not of age, however, the magnitude of one's experiences is a function of one's age.

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#29343 - 07/14/06 02:18 AM Re: Ama Sabatha Ko Mthwakazi??
ILembe Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 05/01/05
Posts: 282
Loc: Tjolotjo
xolani bakwethu ngisuke ngakopitsha lezethulo zabanye, sorry ngelombolombo lendaba
_________________________
maturity is of the mind, not of age, however, the magnitude of one's experiences is a function of one's age.

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#29344 - 07/14/06 09:32 AM Re: Ama Sabatha Ko Mthwakazi??
Manyanyatha Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 04/08/05
Posts: 109
Loc: Sikombingo
Editha phela ucitshe lokho ongafuni siklubambanise.

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#29345 - 07/14/06 11:31 AM Re: Ama Sabatha Ko Mthwakazi??
ILembe Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 05/01/05
Posts: 282
Loc: Tjolotjo
Sengikwenzile mhlobo wami ukwanda kwaliwa ngabakhunkuli izolo ngizame ngazama ukukulungisa ngaze ngadelinkani awu kanti kulula nje, ngiyabonga lakusasa.
_________________________
maturity is of the mind, not of age, however, the magnitude of one's experiences is a function of one's age.

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#29346 - 07/18/06 10:33 AM Re: Ama Sabatha Ko Mthwakazi??
Mangethe Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 195
Loc: Bulawayo
Mninimuzi,uzwakala angathi unguMkatolika(Catholic.) Ake usize mfowethu. Kulokunye engingakuzwisisiyo ngaleli bandla.
Kulezikhathi lapha ibandla leli elabulala khona more than 50 million christians worldwide,ngesizatho sokuthi abavumelani lama-principles esikatolika.e.g. people like Jerome and Huss. Batshiswa ngomlilo baze bafa.Ukuhlukuluzwa kwama krestu kusekela nge-dark ages and khona kuzoqala futhi kuthunganyelwa ngama katolika just before Jesus comes.

Anyone with any good explanation bakwethu????????

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