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#29550 - 02/17/06 02:33 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Mabila Offline
Nkosi
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Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 2124
Loc: Ayowa
Bakwethu you need to be aware and weary of prominent regimes that feign a pro-Christian agenda in order to appease certain voters!
Against that backdrop there is also a certain brand of Christian communities who out of insulation, ignorance and blind patriotism sincerely beleive that their regimes are pursuing a pro-Chrstian agenda.
Things are not always what they seem!

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#29551 - 02/18/06 10:07 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Manotsha_ Offline
Ngqwele
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Registered: 10/07/01
Posts: 112
Loc: Bulawayo
What we need to learn and teach our people is the fact that the sciptures which form the Bible were written by black people.

Bible scholars even the Jews know that and have written about it in many books. This are the teaching you don't get from the western churches.

For me it matters a lot to know who the people of the Bible were, and it has been important to understand the people that wrote the Bible so that I can know the truth, understand Christian Europe atrocities against Black people. The Black images of Jesus and the people of the Bible were simply changed to white to satisfy the emerging and racial prejudice of the Christian Europe and Europeans against black people. The fact is Christian Europe?s white Jesus is nothing but a lie.

Worshiping the white images of Jesus Christ, his mother, and the people of the Christian Bible is a perpetuation of the racist sentiments of Christian Europe and Europeans. There has been a major lie in the worshiping of a white Jesus in Christianity and I have thought about it seriously in the name of religious purity.

The Bible tells us plainly in Exodus 12:37-38 that the people that went in the biblical Exodus were about six hundred thousands men on foot beside women and children. No biblical scholar or anyone who reason beyond the Bible stories believes that these 600,000 men in the Exodus were the seventy men that supposedly went to Ancient Egypyt, or even that these 600,000 men descended from the original seventy men from the family of Jacob that supoosedly went to ancient Egypt. Even if we accept that the seventy men from the familiy of Jacob went to Ancient Egypt from somewhere else, thye could not have been the 600,000 men that left the exodus. In addition to that, the Bible states that there was a ?, mixed maltitude,? a Large number of people that did not belong to the house of Israel also in the exodus. Who are these people where are they now?

What does this analysis mean? It means that the Bible itself reveals that the people that left Ancient Egypt into the exodus to become the Jewish people did not originate from one tribe in Ancient Egypt. Jacob and his family of seventy men must have come to Ancient Egypt as a family, but the people that left Ancient Egypt into the biblical exodus were more than one family, they were people from several different African tribes.

Biblical scholars agree that the Exodus occurred in the 13th century B. C. During this period the people that left Ancient Egypt in the Exodus were not Jews or Hebrews. They became Jews and Hebrews in Europe in the 2nd century B. C. almost eleven hundred years after they had left Ancient Egypt into the exodus. According to the claims of the Jewish scholars, their priest wrote the biblical documents long before the 2nd century, and that was long before their people went to Europe to become Jews and Hebrews.

If the Jewish people supposedly went to live in Ancient Egypt for four hundred and thirty years as the Bible tells us then the people that left Ancient Egypt in the biblical exodus were no more Jewish people. There were ancient Egyptians and therefore black people. If the Jewish people were portrayed in the earliest Christiandom as black people in Europe then they were black people.

I don?t believe in Jesus or worship him as a person. He was one of those people who fought for civil rights and propagated customs of good living just like Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Malcom X and many other Black people. Because he acted against the system, they had to have him killed. His teachings are not new to the African people, the have been passed from generation to generation.

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#29552 - 02/19/06 03:48 AM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Siphepheli Offline
Ndunankulu
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Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 741
Loc: Khonaph'ya Enkangala
huh? mmmmh! intalestingi ngempela.

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#29553 - 02/19/06 03:00 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Mahlab'ayithwale Offline
Ndunankulu
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Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 671
Loc: Emlindini Wesambane
Makheyi1


Your post Makheyi1
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> For me it matters a lot to know who the people of the Bible were, and it has been important to understand the people that wrote the Bible so that I can know the truth, understand Christian Europe atrocities against Black people. The Black images of Jesus and the people of the Bible were simply changed to white to satisfy the emerging and racial prejudice of the Christian Europe and Europeans against black people. The fact is Christian Europe?s white Jesus is nothing but a lie. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Though they maybe some elements of trueth in your posting i will not agree with the point that Jesus was black or classify Jesus with the likes Luther and all them that you mentioned,i am a christion and believe in Jesus as the son of God,therefore looking at this matter at a christian's perspective,Jesus was the son of God,the bible says that before the world was created Jesus was there with the father,the two,the father and the son were spirit wovering upon the void air,now when the world was created and people sinned against God,he was sent on earth to die for our sins,because he was spirit God had to make him be born of a woman so the world would believe him.

Now Mary the mother of Jesus who was chosen by God,we all know that she was a jew or israelite,this is where i disagree with you,but i dont think the colour of his skin is the issue but who he is,you i know that even before the whites come to Africa our ancestors knew there was God(uMlimu/Mlimo}as i recall my history studies,they may not have necessarily believed in Jesus but if recall places like (NJELELE)/elitsheni were sacred.


Coming to the issue about Exodus 12 i dont think if dont not believe the bible you will ever find answers to your quastions,though i will come agin to you and try and give you one or two answers.

Ngiyabonga

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#29554 - 02/19/06 09:45 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Gay'gusu Offline
Sakhamuzi

Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 79
Loc: Emagiswini Esilalatshani
Mabila, phinda njalo, ukunanzelela lokhu okutshoyo is to start living and stop existing! Ngiyawabonga lawamazwi.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mabila:
<strong> Bakwethu you need to be aware and weary of prominent regimes that feign a pro-Christian agenda in order to appease certain voters!
Against that backdrop there is also a certain brand of Christian communities who out of insulation, ignorance and blind patriotism sincerely beleive that their regimes are pursuing a pro-Chrstian agenda.
Things are not always what they seem! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

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#29555 - 02/19/06 09:47 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Gay'gusu Offline
Sakhamuzi

Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 79
Loc: Emagiswini Esilalatshani
Especially nxa uthi :


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mabila:
<strong> Things are not always what they seem! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">These are great words, Mabila

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#29556 - 02/20/06 09:58 AM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
matshetshe Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 115
Loc: bulawayo
bakithi lingixolele ngemibhalo eminengi enkundleni kodwa nxa indaba inde idinga ingcazelo ende , kugenesisi sithola ujacob obizwa israel ebusisa the 12 sons okule extra lapha thina abansundu esihluma khona kuzibusiso zika Thixo he had 12 sons joseph married an egyptian who was black and they had 2 sons who jacob the father took as his own sons and blessed , then whe he blessed judah wa pholofitha ngo Jesu khonapho ,uJesu siyamdumisa manje , igazi lakhe liyasimela nxa usathane ehlasela ,then kuJoshua siyathola lapho kusabiwa ilizwe ukthi kulendawo okuthiwa yiGalilee kewlika Naphthali, uIsiah abeseyiqamba kelindawo lapho okuzavela khona uJesu , atsho ke lokuthi uzabayini njalo enzini ngamafitshane ,uzabonake ku Matthew lo Hebrews imibhalo ye old testament ivumela le new testament ,yikho ke bakithi okuyikukholwa kwami njalo okwaba landela umohamed hatshi bangazikhulumela bona njengoba le iyinkundla

Judah, thou [art he] whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand [shall be] in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.
Gen 49:9 Judah [is] a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him [shall] the gathering of the people [be].
Gen 49:11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
Gen 49:12 His eyes [shall be] red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.
And they appointed Kedesh in Galilee in mount Naphtali joshua 20 v 7
Isiah9v1-
and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict [her by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.
The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
Isa 9:3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, [and] not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, [and] as [men] rejoice when they divide the spoil.
Isa 9:4 For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian.
Isa 9:5 For every battle of the warrior [is] with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but [this] shall be with burning [and] fuel of fire.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Isa 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Isa 11:13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.
Isa 11:14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.
Isa 11:15 And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make [men] go over dryshod.
Isa 11:16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;
Mat 4:13 And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:
Mat 4:14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
Mat 4:15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, [by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;
Mat 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Hbr 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Hbr 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Hbr 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Hbr 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hbr 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Hbr 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Hbr 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Hbr 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
Hbr 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Hbr 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

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#29557 - 02/20/06 07:19 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Mahlab'ayithwale Offline
Ndunankulu
****

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 671
Loc: Emlindini Wesambane
matshetshe

Hawu ndoda ayacaca amavesi akho kodwake yikuthi kulondoda ovele kawuvumi umbalo,so yena uphikisana lalawa mavesi omupha wona,ubuze ngoExodus 12 lapha,ngakho mina njengokhristu angenelisi ukupha imicijo against the verses of the bible i believe,ngiyabe ngingumzenzisi,akumsize baba.

Ngiyabonga

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#29558 - 02/20/06 07:29 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Mahlab'ayithwale Offline
Ndunankulu
****

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 671
Loc: Emlindini Wesambane
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
originally posted by Mabila
Bakwethu you need to be aware and weary of prominent regimes that feign a pro-Christian agenda in order to appease certain voters!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dade ayabongeka lamagama.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Originally posted by Gayigusu
Bakwethu ngilalo ke mina IKhorani, LaBhayibhili leBhuku LikaMormon, I can lend anyone for a period. ngingu-Mkhiristu kodwa ngiyavuma when they say Christians have turned agianst their own religion and that there is only one real religion left in the world and that is Muslim. Reading all the books the laws are the same and you see that Christian have run away from their laws and continue to mordify them for their own ends. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are you saying because we are christians and we dont believe in other gods but our own we should go ahead and taunt other people's beliefs,akungachazele baba ukuthi utshoni ngestatement yakho,ngoba ngokubona kwami yiyo iyabe ifirst mistake yonaleyo,akungicacele baba.

Ngiyabonga

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#29559 - 02/20/06 09:00 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Gay'gusu Offline
Sakhamuzi

Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 79
Loc: Emagiswini Esilalatshani
Mahlabay'thwale

Because I have failed to understand the question or its inference to what I wrote earlier I will respectfully just re-phrase what I intended to say at that time.

My contirbution was to the effect that Muslims are religiously more principled than Christains even though I am a Christian and to say that we as Christians may not try to teach Muslims what religiosity is all about, because they know it and practise it as it should be in their statutes.

I also attempted to bring to the fore the fact that Christians just behave the holier than thou yet they are far from it. We want everyone to behave as though they were Christians just like Mugabe would have wanted all of us to behave as though we were his people.

Christians are individualistic and now thrive on building social divisions while muslims thrive on common societies. The reason why Jesus was killed was that although he was powerful and of God, he walked and associated with societies. He shurned the rich, powerfull and influential, to the extent to which they wanted to patronise him. And thus they plotted his killing. (Not knowing though that they were fulfilling prophecy)

Jesus was a revolutionary, a man of ideas that were good but not common, I think if he had lived in this day and age America would have send CIA after him. He was GOD as he remains such.

Christians fo today as called after him lost it, and besides I need to advise you that I do not believe, reading from all the three books that the GOD they make reference to is different. Its one GOD praised differently! Others thruogh Mohammed, others through Joseph Smith (the Mormons), others through Mother Mary & the rosary and some of us through Jesus Christ, who is right amongst them we need to pray about it and read the bible and other writings a LOT! There is no sulvation or knowledge without reading! People perish in the jails of patronage, praising people ideas, retuals and religions instead of God!

I believe in God, through Jesus Christ with the assistance of the Holy Spirit. I believe in this order after reading the three and in consultation with a lot more religious knowledge food on websites and other sources.

The best way for me so far to find out how you will be right in prayer is to investigate the way you currently pray, and juctuposition it with the bible and other churches and religion, I mean go into a state of rebellion, if you come back where you are thus the right thing! At least you will have tried, I did it and ended up in a different way of faith but I absolutely love that I did this!

Sengiwumana nje bakwethu, I am very passionate about Jesus Christ!

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