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#29600 - 04/21/06 07:15 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Mahlab'ayithwale Offline
Ndunankulu
****

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 671
Loc: Emlindini Wesambane
[]originally posted by makheyi1
You were simple killed because you didn?t believe in their faith. And they called you a heathen. The punishement was brutal and for a people who call themselves children of God, e.g. crucifixion, burning in fire, throwing in boiling oil it?s hard to understand them. I couldn?t believe a God created by Christians who could be so evil and not tolerate other beliefs. The Japanese and the Chinese survived because they lived far away form our civilization, otherwise they could have also being killed. [/]

Ngiyaphinda njalo okwesithathu ngalawa mfowethu.
( Ukuthi abantu bahlalisane kuhle emhlabeni we need to accept the things we cannot change like religions,zeza isizweni seAfrica njalo abantu bazamukela,therefore calling each other names and all that is just mere waste of time,people should just accept each other and live together

Ayakha isizwe mfowethu amazwi akho,lokhu ukokuthi bacine bebulalana ngokuthi omunye efuna ukuthi wonke umuntu akholwe kolwakhe ukholo lakhe kutshengisa nje ukufiphala kwemicabango yabantu,umdali uvele yena kazi ukuthi kulokhristu kulomumozlemu,ubona abantu kungabantu nje abadalwa nguye,abantu kumele bananzelele ukuthi ngemva kokubulalana lokuhlukumezana akula lutho oluguqukayo.Ukwehlukana kwenkolo yikho okwenza umhlaba ube ngumhlaba ngoba oleqiniso phakathi kwethu waziwa ngumdali kuphela.


Edited by Mahlab'ayithwale (04/21/06 07:31 PM)
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Sokuyikho Ukukhala Kwejuba !!!!,Sikujwayele !!!

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#29601 - 04/28/06 10:48 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Zwangendaba Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 1399
Loc: New York, New York, USA
Bafowethu.

Ngincindezele:
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
ukufiphala kwemicabango yabantu,umdali uvele yena kazi ukuthi kulokhristu kulomumozlemu,ubona abantu kungabantu nje abadalwa nguye,abantu kumele bananzelele ukuthi ngemva kokubulalana lokuhlukumezana akula lutho oluguqukayo.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

This is the best Contribution about oNkulu-Nkulu (UMDALI) that I have witnessed in this forum. I have tried hard to put this point across. All GODS are but creations of THE GREAT SPIRIT, ONKULU-NKULU. So is all worship. Each person worships through IDLOZI LAKWABO (Their GOD) to pass his prayers to oNKULU-NKULU. So the GREAT SPIRIT does not know the difference between the GODS. But the GODS know the difference between themselves and they are in perpetual conflict for dominance.

Thanx Mahlab' ayithwale.

Li Zwangendaba.

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#29602 - 05/19/06 06:21 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Manotsha_ Offline
Ngqwele
***

Registered: 10/07/01
Posts: 112
Loc: Bulawayo
As I mentioned ealier in another posting, mina I don?t believe in Jesus as a person or God or amadlozi or whatever. I accept or agree with the words/teachings of Jesus as good. They were good words and there is no different form what our ancestors and other good people who never sought violence said. I don?t believe Jesus is God, i.e. if God means a very powerful person who lives up in the sky, has great powers, he/she forgives, created the world and one day he will come down to take his/her people to heaven. Dream on, that will never happen.

My concept of God is different from what the western missionaries taught. I believe God is a good spirit in every one of us which makes us do good things and I believe the devil (bad spirit) is also in every one of us, that spirit which makes one do bad things, i.e. sin in the Christian meaning. Religion has to do with teaching PEOPLE to do more good than evil. That?s when you can find peace, happiness and joy. It?s not all about wearing expensive clothes going to church or closing your eyes pretending to pray to unknown/unseen God or sacrificing goats/bulls to the spirits. You need to pray to yourself or meditate so that you have a willing to do more good; It?s all about you. God/the spirit is in every one of us and it?s up to each and every one of us to change this world for better not expecting a powerful person from the sky to change our lives, i.e. come one day and take his loving people to heaven.

There?s no paradise up there. There?s no heaven up there. And there?s no God up there. Heaven is here on earth and if we destroy this earth we will all perish. That?s it. Some of the teachings in church are myths and they don?t need to be taken word for word.

I will not worship a picture drawn by Michelangelo to be a Jesus or a God. I have never worshiped a person in my life. All I need to do is be a good example for my people so that the young and other people can learn from me, hopefully do good things. Jesus like other good people of non-violence who sought justice has been good examples. That?s what matters not worship or fear a merciless God who?s nowhere known. And Jesus by the way was a black person who had a family and the system didn?t like his teachings which they found to be a threat to their sovreignty and they had him arrested and killed. The Christians have been killing people in the past especial those who didn?t believe their doctrines. It's happening nowadays in the name of Christianity. I can't be part of it. My spirit tells me to do good and not support evil.

The fact that people in the past had whatever beliefs doesn?t give anyone the right to stop people from questioning such beliefs because some don?t make any sense at all. Just imagine esikhalengeni the father-in- law has to sleep with the bride for what whatever beliefs. I wouldn?t allow my father to do that to my wife. There are so many customs which are evil, for instance long time ago black people gave sacrifices of their first borns to an unknown God (it?s in the Bible) and Indians sacrificed their daughters. The British had to stop this terrible custom from Indians and it?s just recently.

We need to revise our beliefs and take what is good and throw away what is bad. Reformation is accepted when it brings good change. Let?s not be blinded by certain beliefs, check them!!!

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#29603 - 05/19/06 10:49 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Mahlab'ayithwale Offline
Ndunankulu
****

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 671
Loc: Emlindini Wesambane
[] There?s no paradise up there. There?s no heaven up there. And there?s no God up there. Heaven is here on earth and if we destroy this earth we will all perish. That?s it. Some of the teachings in church are myths and they don?t need to be taken word for word. [/]

Mistake number one mfowethu you can not be sure of that since you have no evidence that there is no heaven or hell,yo awukaze ufe phela wena uyebona ukuthi ukuthi ngemva kokufa kwenzakalani????

[] [:"red"] We need to revise our beliefs and take what is good and throw away what is bad. Reformation is accepted when it brings good change. Let?s not be blinded by certain beliefs, check them!!! [/] [/]

Mistake number two-These are the kind of mentalities that will continue to trigger religious tensions between communities,just because you dont believe in God,Jesus,heaven or hell does not give one the right to stand and say he is trying to correct someone else's belief just because he wants them to believe what he believes,if you do not believe,dont but let those who do contnue to believe for no one has the trueth until the end of time comes.

That is a very dangerous statement mfowethu and is not healthy to the society hk hk hk


Edited by Mahlab'ayithwale (05/19/06 11:01 PM)
_________________________
Sokuyikho Ukukhala Kwejuba !!!!,Sikujwayele !!!

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#29604 - 05/20/06 09:36 AM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Manotsha_ Offline
Ngqwele
***

Registered: 10/07/01
Posts: 112
Loc: Bulawayo
As I have once pointed out that there are those want to protect the Bible and because they have been taught to do so when they don?t understand the origin of this book.

When you die you?re gone and gone for ever. If I can ask you a simple question, ?Do you know your family tree, i.e. grandfather, great-grandfather, great-great- grandfather or great-great- grandmother? I bet you don?t. How far in your family tree can you go? Is it important to know these people or remember them? Do you think they come and exist in our life? Are there somewhere in heaven? Which heaven? There?s no heaven up there otherwise we would have seen it or people who live there could have visited us if they have all those powers to do so or their powerful God allowed it. Why would this powerful God not allow these people in heaven to visit their relatives? What makes it impossible?

These are not the mentalities that will continue to trigger religious tensions between communities, but they will try to clarify these beliefs which we?re forced to follow. In some countries people are not forced to attend Bible lessons while in others there are and this is wrong. In Zimbabwe it used to be compulsory to have Bible lessons, forcing children to worship the white Jesus, God.

Mandela also realized that Malcolm X had a reason to fight against the evil Christian system which oppressed black people. You may try to force people to adopt your beliefs, but at the end you won?t win. I don?t understand why Christians see any discussion against their beliefs causing any tension. I?ll tell you why; because they want to control the world. In the past people like us who said things against the church were crucified or thrown in boiling oil or boiling water or burnt in stakes. Little is said about these atrocities. The late Pope did bring these into light when he apologized on behalf of the Roman Catholic Church. When the Pope visited Israel, he apologized to the Jewish for the Inquisition, for the atrocities committed against Jews during the crusades and for the 14 centuries of anti-Semitism that led to the Holocaust. As far as I know, he never presented any apologies of a similar nature to the Muslim world. All he did was to speak to a Muslim audience in a Moroccan stadium, he prayed inside a mosque and he kissed the Koran. The Pope never even apologized for the slavery the church did and the persecutions of black people it did all black lands.

Nowadays Christians will kill you secretly or isolate you if you?re against their beliefs. The white men would have loved to have the whole world Christian worshiping a white Jesus, but that will not happen.

There?s no end to come. I don?t believe in the end of the world. The world or earth will come to an end ONLY when mankind destroys it. No God or super being will bring and end to anything. My friend TIME doesn?t? end. Just look at it in a broader sense. Time will always tick and you can?t bring it to an end.

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#29605 - 05/21/06 11:36 AM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Mahlab'ayithwale Offline
Ndunankulu
****

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 671
Loc: Emlindini Wesambane
[] As I have once pointed out that there are those want to protect the Bible and because they have been taught to do so when they don?t understand the origin of this book. [/]



Wrong again Makheyi mfowethu,not protect the Bible,stand with their belief, i still believe that the bible is true and brings a joyful life to me and is a manual and guide to living a peaceful life with other people in this world,so i wouldn't care much about its origin.


[] When you die you?re gone and gone for ever. If I can ask you a simple question, ?Do you know your family tree, i.e. grandfather, great-grandfather, great-great- grandfather or great-great- grandmother? I bet you don?t. How far in your family tree can you go? Is it important to know these people or remember them? Do you think they come and exist in our life? Are there somewhere in heaven? Which heaven? There?s no heaven up there otherwise we would have seen it or people who live there could have visited us if they have all those powers to do so or their powerful God allowed it. Why would this powerful God not allow these people in heaven to visit their relatives? What makes it impossible? [/].

I do konw my family tree and all i know thier are dead,we miss and love them.Subuyela futhi emadlozini engakutshela ngathi mina angiwazi amadlozi,to me they dont exist,wathi esifa owami ubaba ngathi lala ngokuthula,kangisoze ngife ngamphekela utshwala angasoze abunathe ngithi ngiyamthethela,Njalo wena Makheyi as i said before you can never rule out the fact that there is Heaven or God lokuthi abantu nxa bangafa imiphefumulo yabo iyangaphi ngoba awukaze ufe phela wena njalo awukaze uhlangane lomuntu owafayo akutshele ukuthi kalikho izulu,njalo ibhayibhili kalitsho ukuthi wonke ofileyo uzakuya ezulwini.Wena lawe inkani yakho nje angitsho ngeyokuthi awe uma lokukholwayo,manje yindaba kungani kuyakucunula ukuthi abanye abantu bame labakukholwayo.

Yini futhi abantu elithi nxa sokunzima lithi kakuyiwe elitsheni kuyecelwa izulu kumbe selisithi ngabe unkulunkulu uyasibona esiphe izulu,u only acknowledge him when things are not well.


Edited by Mahlab'ayithwale (05/22/06 10:34 AM)
_________________________
Sokuyikho Ukukhala Kwejuba !!!!,Sikujwayele !!!

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#29606 - 05/21/06 01:08 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Manotsha_ Offline
Ngqwele
***

Registered: 10/07/01
Posts: 112
Loc: Bulawayo
I don?t think the Bible has brought joy to all the people of the world. As fae I know it brought a lot of suffering because wherever it went with the white men it only brought misery. The Bible was used to colonise the whole world. If that is joy then my friend I think there are a lot of us who disagrees with that. You have the right to belive in whatever you belive, but you have no right to enforce it to people against their will.

The Bible story of Jesus is a contradictory and confusing account. The Bible shows that this Jesus fellow spoke and taught many absurd and foolish things, and often believed he was having a conversation with devils. If one will read the entire Bible, one will find tales of ignorance, murder, sexual perversions, mass insanity, idiotic laws, and even cannibalism and human sacrifice. It staggers the imagination how anyone in his right mind could read the Bible and believe that it was written by a wise, just, and loving god. Christians have found biblical scriptures telling them to burn people at the stake, to justify slavery, to oppress and persecute others, and to kill and commit war in the name of their god. Unfortunately, there are some even today who would have us return to the teachings and laws found in the Bible.

1. THE TRUTHFUL WITNESS
"If I [Jesus] bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." (John 5:31)

"I [Jesus] am one that bear witness of myself..." (John 8:18)

According to these scriptures, Jesus was a false witness.

2. THE PRINCE OF PEACE
"Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I [Jesus] tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three." (Luke 12:51-2)

"Think not that I [Jesus] have come to send peace on earth: I come not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

"...for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." (Matthew 26:52)

"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36)

And to think that these ravings are supposed to be the sayings of one some call the prince of peace.

3. WHOLESOME FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS
"For I [Jesus] am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:35-6)

"If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

"Honour thy father and thy mother..." (Matthew 19:19)

"And call no man your father upon earth..." (Mathew 23:9)


I can quote more verses in the Bible which doesn?t make this reading something to be proud of.

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#29607 - 05/24/06 11:12 AM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Mahlab'ayithwale Offline
Ndunankulu
****

Registered: 11/21/05
Posts: 671
Loc: Emlindini Wesambane
[]I don?t think the Bible has brought joy to all the people of the world. As fae I know it brought a lot of suffering because wherever it went with the white men it only brought misery. The Bible was used to colonise the whole world. If that is joy then my friend I think there are a lot of us who disagrees with that. You have the right to belive in whatever you belive, but you have no right to enforce it to people against their will.

The Bible story of Jesus is a contradictory and confusing account. The Bible shows that this Jesus fellow spoke and taught many absurd and foolish things, and often believed he was having a conversation with devils. If one will read the entire Bible, one will find tales of ignorance, murder, sexual perversions, mass insanity, idiotic laws, and even cannibalism and human sacrifice. It staggers the imagination how anyone in his right mind could read the Bible and believe that it was written by a wise, just, and loving god. Christians have found biblical scriptures telling them to burn people at the stake, to justify slavery, to oppress and persecute others, and to kill and commit war in the name of their god. Unfortunately, there are some even today who would have us return to the teachings and laws found in the Bible.

1. THE TRUTHFUL WITNESS
"If I [Jesus] bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." (John 5:31)

"I [Jesus] am one that bear witness of myself..." (John 8:18)

According to these scriptures, Jesus was a false witness.

2. THE PRINCE OF PEACE
"Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I [Jesus] tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three." (Luke 12:51-2)

"Think not that I [Jesus] have come to send peace on earth: I come not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

"...for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." (Matthew 26:52)

"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." (Luke 22:36)

And to think that these ravings are supposed to be the sayings of one some call the prince of peace.

3. WHOLESOME FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS
"For I [Jesus] am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household." (Matthew 10:35-6)

"If any man come unto me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

"Honour thy father and thy mother..." (Matthew 19:19)

"And call no man your father upon earth..." (Mathew 23:9)


I can quote more verses in the Bible which doesn?t make this reading something to be proud of. [/]

Makheyi thats your own perception of what the bible is to you because instead YOU do not know the origin of it and YOU are not the first person to think that is responsible for the suffering of Africans and all other people who were oppressed by the whiteman,Akungitshele ukuthi umuntu angagwaza umtanakho engqamu afe uzakuthi ingqamu yiyo embi yini kumbe umagwaza,ngalo kawusoze ufe wayisebenzisa?,like i have said before,its not the bible,its the whiteman,Like many have used it tO generate millions of ???/$$$$$,for example right now as we speak THE DAVINCI CODE.

Ngabantu kayisilo bhayibhili,njalo you are one of those pple who qoute verses in the bible without understanding them and misinterprete them to suit whatever they wanna say.


Edited by Mahlab'ayithwale (05/25/06 12:40 AM)
_________________________
Sokuyikho Ukukhala Kwejuba !!!!,Sikujwayele !!!

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#29608 - 05/24/06 08:39 PM Re: Christianity Vs Islam
Manotsha_ Offline
Ngqwele
***

Registered: 10/07/01
Posts: 112
Loc: Bulawayo
The fact that you mention something doesn?t necessary mean that nobody has never metioned it iany time in the past. I think if you have more intellect you would perceive that. People repeat things because they want to emphasize or stress a point. It has nothing to do with the number of people who may have said it. Therefore the way I see it is that in this discussion forum, people have the right to express themselves irrespective of whether the point or subject matter was raised in the past or not. That?s the freedom of speech we want not to be restricted.

Anyway, I know the origin of the Bible because I know the people who compiled the documents that formed the Old Testament, the then Bible. I also know the people that translated the documents of that form the New Testament.

The body of documents from which the biblical documents were compiled. Edited, and translated were Ancient Egyptian documents. These books are what the Jewish scholars claimed to be theirs before the Greeks, but it was a lie. All what the Jewish scholars did in Alexandria was compile, rewrite, edit and translate Ancient Egyptian documents that were available to them into Greek, and became the Old Testament Bible. As the Jewish took these Ancient Egyptian documents that were written mostly by Akan people of Ancient Egypt, they simple transposed the Akan and other African tribal names of the original authors into Greek, and these names are still discernible.

I would like to point out the documents that form the Bible were original African written by African people. The documents of the Bible were translated into Greek by request of Alexander the Great and later traveled to the entire Europe. Each country wanted its own version of this wonderful book, the English people formed the King James Version, which they used to colonise the world.

It was in Europe that these documents became a sacred book of religion. As a result all the controversies, confusion and misery caused from the Bible came from Europe. It is evident that the Europeans have never understood the Bible because they have never known its place of origin, who wrote the documents, or the purpose it was intended to serve. They have taught people about things they don?t understand with wrong interpretations.

The New Testament was compiled from the Ancient Egyptina documents, edited and translated to English by the English people. When Egypt was an English colony they did whatever they wanted, even stole the riches form our ancestors?pyramids. How can you steal from a grave?

It?s important to point out the contradictions in the Bible because there are so many. The Bible simple talks about the history of the African people. No one can read it and claim the white people lived like that. It?s something we need to know. The Bible is simply part of African people?s history.

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