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#34127 - 06/21/07 11:54 AM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Mthoko]
Hitshi-Hitshi Offline
Sakhamuzi

Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 80
Loc: Mthwakazi
Uqedile baba.

Its just that some of us are not gifted or is it cursed, of foul speech njengoMntongenakudla. Kahle kahle we are not saying anything different but how we put it indicate the shallowness of the dynamics of nation building.

AmaNdebele akoMthwakazi include but not limited to the following,

Amazulu,
Amakhumalo,
Abesuthu
Amapedi,
Abelozwi,
Amavenda,
Amakhalanga.

You can not refuse these people the right to their ancestoral origins, but when it comes to National issues, NgamaNdebele. Kahle kahle you can not refuse them the right yokuKhonza uMbuso wesishoneni if they so wish.

Like I said in my earlier post, what defines you is your language, culture and religion.
_________________________
Ogogodlela njengeNqina elidla liguqile koMatshengela.

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#34128 - 06/21/07 11:57 AM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Ndebele phaqa]
Meli Omuhle Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 01/03/07
Posts: 32
Loc: United Kingdom
Sabona we Mthwakazi omuhle, ngithole ukuthi usemoyeni ngathi kahle ngikubingelele. Phila ukhokhobe.

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#34129 - 06/21/07 12:23 PM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Meli Omuhle]
butholezwe Offline
Mafikizolo
***

Registered: 07/16/04
Posts: 22
Loc: Emaphaneni
I feel I've got a good enough idea about the possible origins zakwaMoyo ukhona ongabe efuna ukuqcizelela kumbe afake umbono otshiyeneyo (kuloka Mnto lo Zwangs) about the possible origins of isibongo sakoSibanda? I'll take silence from the forumites as assent to the above gentlemen's assertions or like myself you are not wiser on the subject.

Ngiyabonga

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#34130 - 06/21/07 12:53 PM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Muntongenakudla]
Zwangendaba Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 1399
Loc: New York, New York, USA
Bafowethu.

Ngincindezele:
________________________________________________________________________________
Another point of correction. The number 8 ngesiZulu esiqondile is: isishiyagalombili and not ISIBHOZO as you allege. Your allegation is devoid of truth and futhi izodukisa abantu, bafunde isiZulu sakho esibheke eceleni. Isibhozo yigama lesiXhosa baba.
________________________________________________________________________________

Mfana ngizakuhlaba ekhaleni - uthi wena ISIBHOZO akusiso sizulu?????? Nama, etshwa, ekhaleni. Thatha i "DICTIONARY" yesizulu, elotshwe ngu DOKE, SIKAKANA, lo VILAKAZI. Uphenduke uzongitshela kumbe akusiso siZULU ukuthi ISIBHOZO.

Ngikuphinde njalo elihlweni, nama. Isixhosa laso yisiNguni. Njengoba iSsiSwati laso kuyisinguni. Uzathola ukuthi akhona amabala asetshenziswa kundimi zonke lezi esiSwatini/Zulu/Xhosa/Ndebele/Tshangane. UPHINDE UTHOLE UKUTHI ELINYE IBALA ELIFANA LOSIBHOZO LISETSHENZISWA KAKHULU NGOMUNYE UMHLOBO WESINGUNI KULEMINYE IMIHLOBO. LOKHO KUYABE KUNGATSHO UKUTHI ALISEKHO ESI ZULWINI NXA LISETSHENZISWA NGABADALA ONTANGA ABAFANA lawe MNTO'NGELA BENGALAZI.

Isizulu sami siqondile sibili ngoba UGOGO ozala UBABA NguMaGumede. Esaphila wayehlala esithi - "Yithi imihlobo yawo Tshaka". Angisiphumputhi.

Ngaphandle kweSiNguni, laso isiZULU silama "Dialect". Abasempangeni bathonywe yizizwe zesiSwati balamanye amabala ongeke uwathole kulabo abase Natal, kumbe kulabo abaseNkayi abathonyelwe ulimi yisiKalanga. Kodwa bonke nje BAKHULUMA ISIZULU in their different dialects. Ungathi wena esakho yiso sodwa isizulu.

HHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Elamani?????

Li Zwangendaba.

HRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Elamani.

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#34132 - 06/21/07 02:12 PM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Zwangendaba]
Moyo Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 31
From the look of things there are so many bleeding hearts out there which need some kind of healing. Asazi ukuthi kungenziwani ukuze izizwe ngokwehlukana kwazo zihlale phansi zikhulumisane zikhiphe okuse zinhliziyweni zazo (FACE TO FACE DEBATES). Lapha sesimane silwe nje ngento engekho akusiolo cala ukuba yiwuphi umhlobo. Yinto esibulele ilizwe likaMthwakazi ukucosana ngohlanga. Iqembu elibusayo okwamanje lalicabanga ukuthi lixhasa umhlobo othile ngokucindezela eminye imihlobo, khangela manje ukuthi kwenzakalani. It's a hell of confusion that is currently happening in Zimbabwe which can only be saved by people who understand that no tribe is superior than the other. Kufana lokuthi uhleke omunye ngoba umfitshane okweqile, okusalayo akazenzanga lowo muntu. Who are we to judge one another, it's only God who can do that.Why worry we all come from apes which look more ugly than any other living human being today.Let us do away with Hatephobia and be objective about the subject. Next time bengingajabula nxa singaya sidinge ukuthi ONdlovu labo Mahlangu bona bavela ngaphi. Ngitsho njengoba kukhona owake wangihlebela uthi bonke abalezibongo ezibizwa ngenyamazana akusimaNdebele. eg Ndlovu, Ntini, Sibanda, Mpofu, Nkomo, Mbuzi, Nja etc.
_________________________
My Work Is An Endless Art Of Discovery Reflective Thinking Guided By My Ancestral Spirits.

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#34133 - 06/21/07 02:57 PM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Moyo]
Muntongenakudla Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Mtubatuba
Zwangendaba

Wena waphakade!
Wena wekunene!
Uyibinda wena wendlovu!!



Lahlaba lagxamalaza ithole laseMtubatuba! Usuphakathi kwazo ke manje mfoka Shamase! Kwaze kwamnandi ukuba yimina! Nakhona.

Igama ISIBHOZO as listed in Isichazimazwi Sanamuhla Nangomuso by C.L Sibusiso Nyembezi (inkwali yenkosi, uShamase wangempela, uNdonga, uMtubatuba kaSomkhele, uVeyane, uMpangazitha, uMashukumbela, uMkhwanazi woqobo)says, in brackets: Xhosa. This implies ukuthi yebo singali sebenzisa kolukaMageba (sengisho isiZulu phela), kepha lona ngokwendabuko, elakwa Xhosa.

Back to the Moyo topic. I still reiterate ukuthi oMoyo ngamaShona ngokwendabuko. This is the unequivocal truth. Kunjalo nje, angisho lokhu ngoba ngeya indlu yakwaMoyo. Cha. Iqiniso yiqiniso. Libaba linjalo. But in this case angiboni ukubaba kwalo ngoba being of Shona origin does not demean the Moyos. Baseyindlu kaMzilikazi, under amaHole. Lokhu ngeke kuze kushintshe, just like imvelaphi yabo ebuShoneni izohlala imi njalo kude kube phakade. Angikhathali noma labo abakhulelwa wukuthukuthela bengathini. Maba futheke, bagcwale ulaka, kepha uMoyo wohlala eqhamuka ebuShona - simhlonipha, simamkela ngalokhu ayikhona!

_________________________
uShamase wangempela!
Umqwashisi - impohlo engenankinga!
Igcokama likaNdonga.
Isishwapha sikaSomkhele.
Yangcol' into ngayintshinga - bayicosha abafokazana!
Futheka mnyekefuli.
Ngiwuphula ngamabomu umoya wakho - yilento ekubulalayo!

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#34136 - 06/21/07 06:08 PM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Moyo]
vunguza Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 129
Loc: emaguswini
uMoyo kumele akhuzwe (besesiqhubeka ngengxoxo)

Uthi uMoyo "Iqembu elibusayo okwamanje lalicabanga ukuthi lixhasa umhlobo othile ngokucindezela eminye imihlobo, khangela manje ukuthi kwenzakalani". Uyaphi Moyo ngalo umugca?

Bengicabanga ukuthi usubonile Moyo ukuthi yimitsho efana laleyi (reckless statements) edala ukungazwisisani (i-confusion that you talk about), but what do you do? You go back and do exactly the same thing! What's up Moyo? I really think that qualified statements can help this (and any other) discussion where not one contributor can claim to be the master of the subject (from what I gather so far).

Ungizwe kahle Moyo. Angilwi. Lami ngidinga ukwazi ngcono njengathi sonke. Nxa usithi 'iqembu elibusayo okwamanje' utsho liphi, njalo lixhasa liphi? And yiphi i-confusion edaleke ngaleyo ndlela?. Ungasiza kakhulu Moyo nxa ungazama ukuthi i-clarity ikukhokhele enkulumeni zakho, lokhu kungasiza abanengi abadinga iqiniso elimsulwa.

Mina ngokwami ngicabanga (and I don't claim to be a master of this subject) ukuthi okaMatshobana, a master politician and a military genius all in one, wayefuna ukwakha isizwe (i-nation building phela) through i-coercion lapho kwakuyikufuna kwakhe ukuthi lalabo abangasibeNguni bazizwe besekhaya nxa bekuMthwakazi, (a colation of the different tribes, including the captured Shona,) hence the different tribes that make up the Ndebele nation that has been in existence since the mid-to-late 19th century. But nation -building is another subject for another day. However, it does inform the fact that we all come from different other tribes and possible nations, as in the case of the Shona, (or Lozwi, or Rozwi, or Tapa, [Jesus son of Mary!!!] or whatever you want to call it, and trust me, it made no big difference to the Ndebele nation then, it sure makes no difference now). We all know that once one finds oneself in the midst of a different nation from the one that defines them, they either revolt (in different ways) or are absorbed (through assimilation, naturalization or otherwise). KoMthwakazi, the later was the best (and wise option).

Now, iShona liShona liShona. iTswana liTswana liTswana. Ngokunjalo, uKhumalo nguKhumalo nguKhumalo. Bonke laba bakhona koMthwakazi. Kodwa bakhona futhi lalapho bedabuka khona. Ama-processes e-assimilation le-naturalization ayazitshintsha izindlela abantu abazibonga ngazo (a reflection of the new environments that people move to). This is a basic fact of life. Nxa abantu bengasazazi ukuthi babuyaphi, that could be a tragedy on thier part, but that could also reflect a successful process of naturalization. If ukoMthwakazi kodwa usakhumbula lapho odabuka khona, good for you! sesingabhala amabhuku lamabhuku ngokuthi usobani losobani babuyaphi, kodwa umuntu lomuntu otshisekileyo ngomdabu wakhe uyazazi lapho abuya khona. Ongazange wafuna ukwazi, lapho lami kangazi.

Ekuyigobeni, I don't believe ukuthi lokhu kumele kube yi-primary pre-occupation of the Mthwakazi collective. We all know ukuthi a number of different tribes make up the Ndebele nation. There are more seroius and pressing threats to our Mthwakazi nation-hood, such as the fact that we might soon find ourselves a nation that only exist in the diaspora, if we don't already.

Would it not be better if singadla amathambo engqondo ngokuthi senze njani ukuze singafi siphele sithi du, njengesizwe sikaMthwakazi?
_________________________
Koze kubenini, what will it take?

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#34137 - 06/21/07 06:55 PM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: vunguza]
Mhlabuhlangene Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 36
Loc: South Africa.Johannesburg
zwanini madoda uma uliShona uliShona the same way u Arthur Mafokate wathi uma uyinja ,uyinja.

Amashona have done a lot of damage to Zimbabwe and anyone who has a drop of Shona BLOOD IN HIS VEINS SHOULD HANG HIS HEAD IN SHAME.

OKUSALAYO WE CAN`T INFLUENCE OUR HISTORY BUT WE CAN SHAPE OUR FUTURE vuka mthwakazi!!!
_________________________
umntwan`omqegu!Ihlahla lokuphephela!

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#34138 - 06/21/07 07:11 PM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Mhlabuhlangene]
Madlenya Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 195
Loc: KwelikaMjoji
People need to be careful, restraint is needed at times. Let us not shout at each other. Gone are the days when the Khumalos used to be the first class citizens in Mthwakazi, those days will never come back again, now we are all equal, a Moyo can be our leader, or anyone else who used to be in the lowest of social classes in Mthwakazi.

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#34139 - 06/22/07 06:03 AM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Madlenya]
Ndebele phaqa Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 44
Loc: South Africa
Zihlobo zami, akelitshele mina ukuthi sibangani? Mina angisazwisisi, kambe singasukela umfoka Moyo simbulale sithi litshona yena engasazi ngitsho lakanci? Into esemqoka yikuthi asivumeni ukuthi Moyo was originally a Shona then as the world revolved thats changed. Banqotshwa ngokaMatshobana wabathumba babayingxene yesizwe sethu samaNdebele. BangaboMthwakazian as much as i am mina WakwaMahlangu, Dube , Khumalo.I think we are missing the point ubafo lona ubefuna ukwazi ngendabuko (origin)yabakoMoyo ayi ukuthi bayini bona namhlanje.Tell me, how many Phiris do we have in our midst? are they still nyanjas, chewas or they are now part of Mthwakazi? Ziningi kabi ingane zakoPhiri esizaziyo abangakaze balubade ngakubo eMalawi and abasazi isinyanja bashaya isiNdebele qho nabo bazithi bangamaNdebele ikhona into embi ngalokho?Umfowethu uthe useyitholile impendulo asidluleleni phambili sibhekeni eminye imbuzo efana nale ebuzwe ngumfoka Moyo (mageza nemukaka- ungangibulali Moyo ngiyayidlalela nje)

Lets stop name calling and accuse our brothers of what they are not.Most of Moyo guys are fighting for the Mthwaklazian cause and they are very proud to be a Mthwakazian just like you and i, they are our brothers they are part of Mthwakazi. In South Africa how many police officers are descendents are Zimbabweans? But they arrest and deport us now and again cause they call themselves Zuluz Pedis,Xhosas and all that yet ngo Moyo, Ndlovu, Dube basekhaya.If you cant beat them join them, imihlobo iyaihlangana kancane kancane thats why sinamaColoureds and all that.

Ngiyabonga ngiqondiseni mangiphuma endleleni.
_________________________
Phambili ngobuNdebele bafowethu baFowethu nabo Dade

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