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#34100 - 06/19/07 11:18 AM Origins yezibongo
butholezwe Offline
Mafikizolo
***

Registered: 07/16/04
Posts: 22
Loc: Emaphaneni
Over the past few years we've been priviledged to have some well informed forumites besichasissela ngomdabuko wezibongo ezithile. Ngingathokoza kakhulu uma abalolwazi balandise nomdabuko wezibongo ezibiza Sibanda and Moyo ezitholakala koMthwakazi. Ngiyabonga.

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#34105 - 06/20/07 08:32 AM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: butholezwe]
Muntongenakudla Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Mtubatuba
Moyo is of Shona origins. A heart is mwoyo in Shona. These people are undisputedly of Shona extraction. Their totem is Vuma balanda (ngesiNdebele)or Vuma varanda in Shona. Kubuye kuthiwe ngo mageza ngobisi or mageza nemukaka. Kushukuthi oMoyo basesiNdebeleni baseyinto yinye namaShona. They're one & bakhonza idlozi linye! They only came to be part of Mntungwa's nation by assimilation. UMntungwa kaMbulazi absorbed the Moyo from the conquered Shona & henceforth they became amaHole, a part of the Ndebele, alongside the Enhla nathi abeNguni.

Sibanda: Laba ngabantu besi Tswana ngokwendabuko. They're called Sebata (pronounced Sibata) ngesi Tswana. Their totem is Tau tona(Tswana for great lion - ingonyama enkulu!) and has been adapted to Dawu duna ngesiNdebele. They're royalty kube Tswana. If you listen to all Tswana praise poets, they always emphasise a lot on Tau. They're Tau this, Tau that, blah, blah. For evidence, listen to Stoan Seete of Bongo Maffin - uzibongela kamnandi ngobu Tau bakubo. Also listen to Siphokazi Maraqana's new album, Ubuntu bam. Listen to song number 3 on the album: lapho ubonga those who helped her athi "Sebata, Tau thank you" etc etc.

In summary, mina wangaphesheya koThukela, mina Nkwali yenkosi, uShamase wangempela, uMtubatuba kaSomkhele, ngithi:
Moyo is undiluted Shona.
Sibanda is Tswana

Wena uthini?
_________________________
uShamase wangempela!
Umqwashisi - impohlo engenankinga!
Igcokama likaNdonga.
Isishwapha sikaSomkhele.
Yangcol' into ngayintshinga - bayicosha abafokazana!
Futheka mnyekefuli.
Ngiwuphula ngamabomu umoya wakho - yilento ekubulalayo!

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#34106 - 06/20/07 09:24 AM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Muntongenakudla]
Hitshi-Hitshi Offline
Sakhamuzi

Registered: 05/21/04
Posts: 80
Loc: Mthwakazi
OMoyo abakoMthwakazi asiwo maShona. Okhokho babo, bangabe babe ngamashona kodwa bona, by religion, culture and language, ngamaNdebele.

Funda ukuthi abantwana besihlangu babephathwa njani umbuso usahlezi. Lalingeke lenze imikhuba yalapha ekhaya libatshiye ngapandle. ubunengi babantu ababelapha ubundla nondo, were recruited into the Ameva regiment, from were the Amaveni T/Ship of Kwekwe derives its name.

Bakhona njalo abanye abavele bengamaShona abathi ngokuza sebenza koBulawayo, (it was the first industrial hub of the country kusabusa abamhlophe), used ndebele surnames for their shona ones. OSibanda bakoChirumanzu, oNdlovu labo Mpofu beMberengwa lezinye nje indawo zelizwe.
_________________________
Ogogodlela njengeNqina elidla liguqile koMatshengela.

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#34107 - 06/20/07 11:20 AM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Hitshi-Hitshi]
Muntongenakudla Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Mtubatuba
Hitshi-Hitshi

Or is it Hiss-hiss!!. Your lack of attention to detail will prove to be your undoing. Mnumzane, please pay attention to detail. See the wood from the trees.

I urge you to revisit & re-read my posting. This time with both your eyes open.

Mina kaNkwali, I addressed the issue of origin yezibongo zakwaMoyo no Sibanda. By origin, sisuke sisho indabuko, the very beginning yaleso sibongo. Period. Kungango kuthi isibongo sakwaNkwali siphuma phi. For that, you can't start hollering & blubbering about some Nkwalis in New York, London & such mumbo jumbo. That's irrelevant - ukufuduka kwabantu has led to Nkwalis all over the world. We want the source - ukuthi emandulo babevele benhloboni, beqhamuka phi!

AbakwaMoyo, in as much as benga bakini esiNdebeleni njenga manje, indabuko yabo ngeyesi Shona. Igama, Moyo, liqhamuka kwisitho, inhliziyo, which the Shona call, Mwoyo! Umuntu wakwaMoyo is therefore a Nhliziyo ngesiNdebele. They call themselves Moyo because they're Shonas - Mwoyo being inhliziyo in Shona. Banga maShona, izinyanya zakubo zigidela endlini, imikhuba yabo ngeyesiShona, izithakazelo zabo ngezesiShona, igazi labo ngelesiShoneni, inkaba yabo ilahlwa ngesiko lasebu Shoneni, kunye nentswebu yabo imbala ngeyase buShoneni. Ukuthi bakhuluma isiNdebele & so forth is irrelevant. Njalo ukuthi badabuka ebuShoneni is not an insult, it doesn't demean them as people. It's the plain unadulterated truth about the Moyos.

_________________________
uShamase wangempela!
Umqwashisi - impohlo engenankinga!
Igcokama likaNdonga.
Isishwapha sikaSomkhele.
Yangcol' into ngayintshinga - bayicosha abafokazana!
Futheka mnyekefuli.
Ngiwuphula ngamabomu umoya wakho - yilento ekubulalayo!

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#34108 - 06/20/07 11:59 AM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Muntongenakudla]
Ginyambila Offline
Mafikizolo
*****

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Bulawayo

Mntongenakudla,

The term Shona itself is not the original term, therefore cannot be used to describe ama origins akoMoyo. The correct term is Lozwi.

Ukuthi Shona is only a term that is a mere 100 years old and is used to describe a certain grouping of which labo abathi ngaleso sikhathi beyisizwe samaNdebele were left outside.

Ngakho nxa sikhuluma ngomdabuko langamasiko, ngabe Lozwi.
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Lingaboyidlangodla isemlindini, iyolilimaza

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#34109 - 06/20/07 12:05 PM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Ginyambila]
Ndukuzibomvu Offline
Ngqwele
****

Registered: 01/04/03
Posts: 176
Loc: KwaGuqangamadolo
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Indab' ibekelw' amazolo

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#34110 - 06/20/07 12:10 PM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Ginyambila]
Muntongenakudla Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Mtubatuba
Gwinyambila!!!

Or is it Gwenyambira! You & Hiss Hiss must be Moyos. Why are you so defensive?

Your contention is far fetched. It misses the mark.

If you follow your argument to its finite conclusion , you'll find that ayikho nje into oyishoyo. If oMoyo bebe ngabeLozwi before they became amaShona, then amaShona were abeLozwi before they changed their nomenclature to Shona. Uma kunjalo bandla, pho why do you seek to hide ukuthi oMoyo ngamaShona? You can't suppress the truth by avoiding it. No.

I'll reiterate, the fact that oMoyo are of Shona origins does not in any way demean or depreciate their humanity. Bangabantu nabo, despite ubuShona babo. It's time they accepted lento abayi yona ukuze siba mukele for the Shona descendants they are.

Akulona ihlazo ukuba yisizukulwane samaShona.

_________________________
uShamase wangempela!
Umqwashisi - impohlo engenankinga!
Igcokama likaNdonga.
Isishwapha sikaSomkhele.
Yangcol' into ngayintshinga - bayicosha abafokazana!
Futheka mnyekefuli.
Ngiwuphula ngamabomu umoya wakho - yilento ekubulalayo!

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#34111 - 06/20/07 12:34 PM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Muntongenakudla]
Ginyambila Offline
Mafikizolo
*****

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Bulawayo
By modern day definition of Shona, which is only a mere 100 years old, Shona people are those that speak the language which itself is a collection of different dialects.

Therefore by modern day description, amaNdebele yilabo abakhuluma isiNdebele. Abanye bathi amaNdebele nguMthwakazi wonke.

The real and original description of abakoMoyo is AbeNyai kumbe abeLozwi. They cannot originate from a descriptive term which itself is only 100 years old.

Furthermore, would I be correct to say "The origins of Shamase or Mkhwananzi are Ndebele?"
_________________________
Lingaboyidlangodla isemlindini, iyolilimaza

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#34112 - 06/20/07 12:53 PM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Ginyambila]
Muntongenakudla Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 649
Loc: Mtubatuba
Gwenyambira

Vuma varanda, mageza nemukaka!
Sengiyavuma ngempela ukuthi, you're a true Moyo indeed. And you deserve ten out of ten for defending uhlanga lwakini.

On a more serious note, I must say, you're just meandering around in circles. Your far-fetched assertions are neither here nor there. Whether by intention, your own design or ubuwula: eish angazi. Your points are hollow: a sieve holds more water. You do not add any value to the person who started this thread.

Okusemqoka ukuthi iqiniso uyalazi. OMoyo ngamaShona ngokwe ndabuko. Whether the term amaShona is 100 yrs or 6 mths old is immaterial.
_________________________
uShamase wangempela!
Umqwashisi - impohlo engenankinga!
Igcokama likaNdonga.
Isishwapha sikaSomkhele.
Yangcol' into ngayintshinga - bayicosha abafokazana!
Futheka mnyekefuli.
Ngiwuphula ngamabomu umoya wakho - yilento ekubulalayo!

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#34113 - 06/20/07 01:06 PM Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: Muntongenakudla]
Zwangendaba Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 1399
Loc: New York, New York, USA
Bafowethu.

M'ntongelakudla, goqa iyembe mfan' ekhaya sihle sitshayane. Hirrrrrrrrr! Elamani?

Indaba le ilokulahleka kancane ngoba siyilanda ngembali ebekwa ngabantu bokuza.

O Moyo akusibo Matshona. Asekhona aMaTshona abizwa Moyo, njengoba esekhona njalo amaNguni abizwa Shamase. AbeLozwi, yibo ngomdabuko abalesizwe esibizwa Moyo, njengoba esetshilo omunye phambilini. Njalo abe Lozwi, laMaTshona kwaphuma embizeni ezehlukeneyo.

AMaTshona ngomdabuka babebizwa Ama-Tapa, kumbe Zezuru. Izizwanyana zakibo lezi esezithiwa Kwerekwere, MaNyika, MaToko, MaKaranga, ngosekuvuka nje ngemva kokwehlukana kwesizwe sabo sakuqala esithiwa Ma-Tapa.

Ukuthi bathiwe MaTshona yikuthunyelwa igama ngezinye izizwe.

Kuyafana labeNguni. Abe-Nguni bakuqala badabuka emfuleni uLuwangwa elizweni elithiwa Zambiya namhlanje. Umdabuli walesi sizwe yena eli NYASA. Uzwisise lapha ukuthi kwehlukene INYASA le NYANJA. Nguye lo Mnguni ozala oLuzumane, Omithiyonke, kuze kuye kubo Malandela.

Thina AMathonga siyizithunjwa zabeNguni sesibizwa abeNguni nje kungenxa yeSwazi elikhulu elalithiwa NGWANE (varient - Ngwana) elathatha untombazane ka Malandela uNovivinyo. Namhlanje sithiwa abeNguni kodwa akusithi esaqala leso sizwe.

Ngima lapho okwamanje.

Li Zwangendaba.

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