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#39571 - 08/15/08 03:05 PM FACT, TRUTH OR FICTION
welly Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 05/16/07
Posts: 132
Loc: UK
I thought a good place to start is to state some categorical misconception of ideas engrained in human thought against fact. Please fell free to add your own. Please when you disagree state clearly your perceived fact.


FICTION: God Loves everybody

FACT: Only a remnant of all humanity past present and future are the Object of his Love.

FICTION: Anyone gets a shot at going to heaven


FACT: Only the remnant of humanity who are objects of his Love are given the gift of eternal life in heaven. This is not a shot but a definite given gift non reversible non negotiable and non immutable.

FICTION: Future can be changed by humans using spells or anything else

FACT: The future is definite including all acts done by all creatures seen and unseen.

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#39574 - 08/15/08 03:46 PM Re: FACT, TRUTH OR FICTION [Re: welly]
Skhotha Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 01/16/08
Posts: 121
Loc: Empangeni
Welly, ninjani zalolezulu? Phila nje mntakababa, thina sisaphila ngapha kwelikaShamase.
Mfowethu, as you have stated that you are providing "facts" to correct "fiction" I feel you should lead the way in providing the supporting facts.
For instance, we lesser believers are under the impression that while we are still on this earth we have a chance to go to heaven. Preachers say that if we are reborn we will enter the kingdom of God. Where are they getting that. You say that is not true. What are you basing that on?
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#39578 - 08/16/08 08:47 AM Re: FACT, TRUTH OR FICTION [Re: welly]
mpumelelo101 Offline
Ngqwele
*

Registered: 06/14/08
Posts: 170
Loc: durban, south africa.
its intresting how faith(s) continue(s) to thrive despite the blatant truth being unleashed by science.
FICTION:there is heaven
FICTION:the future can be changed using spells
FACT:the future can be changed using "anything else".although the technology is still primitive it is a fact through bio-engeneering and bio-tech future humans will be able to live "double" our life by "postponing organ degenation"
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those who don't use their freedom to fight for their freedom will lose their freedom!!

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#39585 - 08/16/08 07:57 PM Re: FACT, TRUTH OR FICTION [Re: welly]
Manyathela Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 37
Loc: Zim-Parliament
Welly, ukuthatha ngaphi ukuthi "Only the remnant of humanity who are objects of his Love are given the gift of eternal life in heaven. This is not a shot but a definite given gift non reversible non negotiable and non immutable." yi Fact? confused
lokuthi "Anyone gets a shot at going to heaven" yiFiction? thats your understanding of izinto lezi but hardly fact or fiction. ungowayiphi inkolo?
Mpumelelo are you into Biotech? I love what you put as a fact, although i dont see it as a fact, i see it as a posibility. kodwa iFiction yakho, cha, asivumelani!

FICTION: Theory of Evolution
FACT: creationism
FACT: Theistic evolution
grin



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#39589 - 08/17/08 07:58 AM Re: FACT, TRUTH OR FICTION [Re: Manyathela]
mpumelelo101 Offline
Ngqwele
*

Registered: 06/14/08
Posts: 170
Loc: durban, south africa.
i am not into biotech i am into enlightment.current scientific possibilities are future scientific facts,to abantu who lived in shakas time it was a possibility/a wish that you could do organ transplants kithi its a fact!! .given that the earth is over 5 billion years old(FACT;as revealed using indisputable dating techniques) you will be naive to rule "evolution" as fiction.ucabangani about genetic engeneering!!what about the unfortunate fact that we are genetically related with animals as exposed by DNA(or its GOD's dna since he created everything)?about creationism the world/universe is not a perfect place as seen from outer space its a "hell", i assume a superior being will create a (near)perfect place!
_________________________
those who don't use their freedom to fight for their freedom will lose their freedom!!

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#39595 - 08/17/08 01:35 PM Re: FACT, TRUTH OR FICTION [Re: mpumelelo101]
Manyathela Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 37
Loc: Zim-Parliament
ungani angikutholi kahle uma ungibuza ukuthi ngicabangani nge genetic engineering. Well that's a fact, phela a fact is something which is known to exist, kule proof yakhona, and there is proof of genetic engineering and we live with it. How can one dispute that? Something that has a possibility of existing in the future cannot be a fact today. For instance, there is a possibility of coming up with a vaccine against the H.I Virus. The vaccine is not a fact today, it might be in future but what is fact today is the possibility. A possibility has a probability of failure and so we cannot say today's possibilities are tomorrow’s facts. They might be or might not.

Why would you think that the FACT that we are genetically related to animals is unfortunate? The structure of the genetic material is universal, with subtle differences here and there, but the gene expression and regulation is different. You probably have studied genetics and I assume you understand the complexity of gene regulation and control. But how does that prove your point? Even the endosymbiotic theory doesn’t present enough evidence for me to discard creationism.

You see, your greatest problem is that creationism cannot be disproved as easily as Friedrich claimed to have disproved vitalism by synthesising urea from inorganic components. Are you an atheist? confused

Mina ngikholwa iTheistic Evolution mfowethu.

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#39599 - 08/17/08 03:31 PM Re: FACT, TRUTH OR FICTION [Re: Manyathela]
mpumelelo101 Offline
Ngqwele
*

Registered: 06/14/08
Posts: 170
Loc: durban, south africa.
isingisi is not my first (or second) language so i might have unwittingly shifted focus from my main point which is:ama new technologies especially in bio-science are enabling us to play "GOD" by genetically engineering anything(from plants to pets,humans are pending, its a matter of time!!).saying that heaven exists/GOD created the earth is not a fact but a mere proposal which is bound to be discredited just like the ancient european proposal that the world was flat.
_________________________
those who don't use their freedom to fight for their freedom will lose their freedom!!

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#39601 - 08/17/08 04:54 PM Re: FACT, TRUTH OR FICTION [Re: mpumelelo101]
Manyathela Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 37
Loc: Zim-Parliament
Cha mfo, I don’t think ulimi lubeludubo. I think yimi-nje ebengingakutholi kahle. Uyabona, we can only play God if we synthesize an organism from nothing. I view genetic engineering in the same way I do procreation. Do we play God when we procreate? I know these are different coz in engineering, genetic material can be moved from one species to another which may even belong to a different kingdom. Uyabona I believe God gave human being a superior brain and we are using that to manipulate other organisms (including and especially microbe) and the environment for our good. We just manipulate, we don’t make from scratch. Even if we can “synthesize” DNA in vitro, we still need cells somewhere along the process.

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#39606 - 08/17/08 06:42 PM Re: FACT, TRUTH OR FICTION [Re: Manyathela]
MTHWENTWEHLABA1 Offline
Nduna
**

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 360
Loc: UG
Banewethu
Now this is beautiful. It is inspiring so much even lami engingazi luthi kulezi ngizwa kuthi ngivuke ngisiya elibrary kusasa. Manje what books should I look into? Qhubekani njalonje, Well done!


Edited by MTHWENTWEHLABA1 (08/17/08 06:42 PM)
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HLABA-1-AT A TIME

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#39612 - 08/18/08 11:12 AM Re: FACT, TRUTH OR FICTION [Re: Manyathela]
mpumelelo101 Offline
Ngqwele
*

Registered: 06/14/08
Posts: 170
Loc: durban, south africa.
(if) GOD gave us a superior brain i wonder why (most)religions especially jadaism,chritianity and islam cry foul and through their influence,thrwat us when we suggest using discarded human embryoes or stem cells to further medical science as they say GOD and only HIM has the power to create life hence we shouldn't play HIM.our superior intelligence is being thrwated by religious dogmar the same way it delayed ancient astronomers into revealing that the world is round and that the earth isn't the centre of the universe!!of cause when we procreate we don't play GOD maar when we artificially stop dangerous and deadly "inheritable" medical conditions(which natural/GODly procreation can't!!) from passing to the next generation through genetic engeneering i believe we are playing GOD!!
_________________________
those who don't use their freedom to fight for their freedom will lose their freedom!!

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