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#41645 - 01/09/09 09:28 AM JAZI'S ARGUEMENT QUASHED! Listen toInformed Shonas
Madlenya Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 195
Loc: KwelikaMjoji
Mr Jazi pay particular attention to the higlighted section of the article. Thank you sir. What's your comment, some of us have been trying to explain to you for a long time, but you never understod, now that it comes from a Shona person maybe you can see the truth in it.

...................................................................

Please read some excerpts from Magora's article that looks analyzes this issue.

Ndebele people are also by far the shrewdest and cleverest voters in Zimbabwe. They interrogate their candidates closely. More importantly, though, they are the only group of people in Zimbabwe who vote based on their own strategic "national" interests. They have routinely asked each other who amongst the candidates offering themselves in that region was the most likely to look after the interests of the Ndebele people on the national stage.Once they decide on that candidate, they tend to stick with him or her and give them a majority of their vote. This was how Simba Makoni was able to garner 45% of the vote in Matabeleland. He campaigned in that area by telling the Ndebele people of his efforts regarding the Zambezi Water Project, an issue on which the people of the area feel very let down by Mugabe. The persistent droughts in the region have meant that, even when the going was relatively good for Zimbabwe, in the 80s and 90s, they experinced famine and, in the cities, water cuts were commonplace, simply because dams in the area did not fill up enough to meet demand. The region survived on grain harvests from the rest of Zimbabwe, which were trucked into Matabeleland to cancel the effect of the drought. (Right now, Matabeleland is suffering even more than the rest of the country, because the new challenges facing the country are simply misery being piled on top of more misery.)
Mugabe's focus on Dabengwa's ancestry, therefore, twisted and untrue though it is, reveals that he is more worried by the split than he lets on in public. Eyeing new elections as he is doing now, he is worried what impact Dabengwa's new party will have in the snap election that he will announce perhaps within the next six months. Certainly, in the absence of Makoni from that poll (if he decides not to run), Dabengwa's party is likely to endorse Morgan Tsvangirai for president. Let me say again that the Ndebele people are the most united people in Zimbabwe. When that region goes for a candidate, they do so overwhelmingly. So, if Dabengwa was to campaign for a candidate other than Mugabe (which he will most certainly do), then that candidate is assured a majority of the vote. Simba Makoni was the last beneficiary of this unity of the Ndebele people. One wonders which way it will swing next.
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#41648 - 01/09/09 02:00 PM Re: JAZI'S ARGUEMENT QUASHED! Listen toInformed Shonas [Re: Madlenya]
mashwabada Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 08/07/08
Posts: 28
Loc: tembisa
mangabe kulotshwe lithsona lokhu ke kuyawuqinisa umbono ngabantu besiNtwini. one of the few shonas abavuma iqiniso uma belibona phambi kwabo.
_________________________
shwabada Mashwabada kaMbome noNgili, izinyane lenkanyamb' okwasa belizingela kwashon' ilanga belalusile.

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#41733 - 01/15/09 06:55 PM Re: JAZI'S ARGUEMENT QUASHED! Listen toInformed Shonas [Re: Madlenya]
Jazelindizayo Offline
Nduna
*

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 388
Loc: At large
Mr Madlenya
I am not sure who between the two of us does not understand but the simple facts are that people here are squealing about marginalisation. All I have asked is how has this marginalisation manifested itself? I have asked if pre-2000 when the rate od economic decline accelerated, if the Shona enyoyed a higher standard of living? I have asked if literacy rates, infant mortality morbidity and poverty levels were higher in Matebeleland as result of the operation of a two tier system? If indeed that is the case then these inequalities are surely to have been documented by academic studies. I have asked for evidence - empirical evidence at that for this so called marginalisation that is only peculiar to Matebeleland and Matebeleland alone. No one here has furnished that evidence save for a posting by Lobengula way back in 2004 that suggested that infant mortality rates and literacy rates in Matebeleland were as good as if not higher than in Mashonaland! Thus blowing a substantial hole in the argument of "marginalisation" The reason why most of you cling to this notion of being marginalised and thus being victims is that it is the fuel that burns the fires for calls of independence. Lamuhlanje were in this august site we read the erroneous argument that people in Matebeleland have been taxed to pay for development in Harare. Square this circle for me baba - on the one hand we are told that companies decamped from Bulawayo and Matebeleland, that being the case it stands to reason that levels of unemployment in the region would have been at stratospheric levels. That being the case, other than a tax on goods and services, how did the government yeNja manage to collect taxes from a region/ population that was largely unemployed? Would the tax revenues so collected be suffcient enough to "develop" Mashonaland? And precisely what form of development took place in Mashonaland? I put it to you that Mashonaland is as undeveloped as Matebeleland and that sir is the unpalatable truth.

As for my "take" on this little excerpt by Magora whoever he is, is that he has expressed an OPINION that he has not backed up with any facts or evidence. That he is a Shona man expressing these sentiments does not impress me as much as it does you. I am underwhelmed by the lack of empirical evidence in his arguments.I am somewhat astounded byt the inaccuracies in his little piece - he suggests wrongly that droughts and famie were peculiar only to Matebeleland!! Yet history documents a countrywide drought in 1982/83 another in the late- to mid 80s and yet another in the 1991/92 season. Your informed Shona eschews all these facts in his rush to potray Matebeleland as perennial and perpetual recipients of Shona largesse. Is that indeed the case Mr Madlenya that Matebeleland has been fed by Mashonaland? Amashona who are reviled on this august site night and day as lacking in common decency have been decent enough to feed you and yours and banish the wolf ofhunger from your door!!

Mr Magora's little piece is inaccurate on the issue of drought and it is without any empirical evidence to support his preposterous claims. And because his little piece is lacking in empirical evidence that I have always asked for I am afraid I fail to see how my argument has been quashed!!
_________________________
Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong

Stupid is forever, ignorance can be fixed.

A mind is only useful if it is open

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#41746 - 01/16/09 12:38 PM Re: JAZI'S ARGUEMENT QUASHED! Listen toInformed Shonas [Re: Jazelindizayo]
Madlenya Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 195
Loc: KwelikaMjoji
I am not going to wste time write a long novel like you did. Let me be short and precise, the reason why you refuse that Mthwakazi is marginalised is because you are against her Independence. You think that by admitting to the obvious that it will then bolster Mthwakazi cause.

Hundreds of people have written about the marginalisation of Mthwakazi right here and elsewhere, but in order this to be deemed credible by you is to cite an article research by ZANU PF gorvenment showing clearly the trends of marginalisation. Do you think you will ever find such a report? If i could tell you that right now i am wearing a grey cardigan, would you believe it or you will throw it out on condition that you have not seen it?? People of Mthwakazi do not need anyone to tell them that they are being marginalised or oppressed.

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#41750 - 01/16/09 01:17 PM Re: JAZI'S ARGUEMENT QUASHED! Listen toInformed Shonas [Re: Madlenya]
Jazelindizayo Offline
Nduna
*

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 388
Loc: At large
Far from seeking to deny Mthwakazi her independence I have said that Mthwakazi's claim for independence ought to be more dignified than simply basing it on the politics of the stomach. I have said that these calls of marginalisation as the basis of an independent Mthwakazi are but a crutch that is not required. Tell Mr Madlenya, if Mthwakazi had not been marginalised and therefore with full stomachs would you be clamouring for independence? Read my open letter to Mr Dube and then maybe we can begin to understand each other!
_________________________
Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong

Stupid is forever, ignorance can be fixed.

A mind is only useful if it is open

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#41758 - 01/16/09 03:23 PM Re: JAZI'S ARGUEMENT QUASHED! Listen toInformed Shonas [Re: Jazelindizayo]
MTHWENTWEHLABA1 Offline
Nduna
**

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 360
Loc: UG
Qhubeka ndoda ngomsebenzi, uzathini kambe ma ufuna imali.
_________________________
HLABA-1-AT A TIME

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#41779 - 01/18/09 08:59 PM Re: JAZI'S ARGUEMENT QUASHED! Listen toInformed Shonas [Re: Jazelindizayo]
Emz Offline
Sakhamuzi

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 80
Loc: Diaspora
yeyeni bantu! what's wrong with the so called politics of the stomach? whether as a metaphor or in literary sense, thus a mountain of a reason for someone to want out. i for one w'd not watch my seed begging bread and made a loughing stock, while i slumber under the false garb of dignity.
_________________________
maturity is of the mind, not of age, however, the magnitude of one's experiences is a function of age.

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#41792 - 01/20/09 07:59 PM Re: JAZI'S ARGUEMENT QUASHED! Listen toInformed Shonas [Re: Jazelindizayo]
duze Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 299
Loc: uk
ngempela wenajazi utshokahle. if we were not marginalized, murdered, raped,inhumanely treated kube sihleli kahle namaTshona.we want out precisly for those reasons. we had no reason for mistrusting amaTshona.

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