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#41749 - 01/16/09 01:12 PM An open Letter to Mr Kirth Dube & others abeMpisi
Jazelindizayo Offline
Nduna
*

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 388
Loc: At large
Baba Dube
Just before Christmas you furnished details on this august site and urged me to contact you. This was so that you could provide simple answers to my simple questions. I took you up on you kind invitation and duly sent you an e-mail. You responded by saying that because of the preparations of the festive season simple answers to simple questions would be provided as an when the season of goodwill to all men was over. Soon after X-mas I again sent you an e-mail and again you pleaded that you were still busy with the family ezintabeni.

I have checked (sometimes up to several times a day) my in-box with diligence in the hope of finding the simple answers to the simple questions that I posed. The silence as they say has been deafening.I must confess that i have not checked my in-box in the last 72 hours so as to avoid the disappointment that has become my daily bread. I am aware that you are not beholden to me and that you answer to higher powers than simple old me ? an ordinary and very much humble son of the soil and Mthwakazi. I must at this point then say that one of the failings of leaders from Africa is their remarkable ability to turn a deaf ear to the concerns of the simple men and women whose interests they purport to have at heart. Zimbabwe is where its at ? kneeling on its knees all because of the failure of the leaders to addressing the concerns of the simple men and women. You on the other hand have preached innovation, changing the face of Zimbabwean politics and being at the cutting edge of the dawn of a new era in Zimbabwean and hence African politics but surprisingly fall short at what is no more than a hurdle in the form of simple questions from a simple and humble son of the soil.

Be that as it may I wish to pose the very same questions and may take the liberty of adding a few more in the fervent hope that you will furnish these answers at your leisure. The original questions centered around the so- called velvet divorce. In essence, for any negotiations to take place between you and the government of the day in Zimbabwe requires either a democratic dispensation in Zimbabwe or a carrot/stick. Edgar Tekere said that democracy in Zimbabwe was in the intensive care unit. That was in 1990 nearly 20 years ago. One score years later the situation has not changed and some would be minded to say democracy is dead given the manner in which iNja pummelled the simple men and women in the run up to the run off. This then leaves the carrot/stick that may be used to bring about the negotiations. What carrot/stick do you have? When do you intend to use this carrot/stick given the level of suffering the people? In the event that you have no carrot/stick where does that leave your so called velvet divorce strategy?

Secondly why is the politics of the liberation of Mthwakazi couched in the terms of victimhood? It would appear that it is the politics of the stomach and that of the have and have nots that is the main driver of this so called struggle. I perused briefly your President?s biography and the message therein. I must confess that being a simple man with a simple understanding of the world much of it went above my head but what struck me was the allusion to Shona supremacy from which Mthwakazi must be freed. I stand corrected but it would appear that Mthwakazi?s struggle for independence (from Shona supremacists) is akin to the struggle of independence from white supremacists. At face value there are indeed parallels ? in Ian Smith?s Rhodesia blacks were patently second class citizens while in Robert Mugabe?s Zimbabwe Mthwakazi takes on the mantle of being second class citizens as has been claimed by your organisation. The evidence of blacks being second class citizens is well documented and was well documented even during the time of discrimination. Thus in Ian Smith?s Rhodesia, a the income of a white person was nearly forty times that of a rural black and eight times that of an urban black, white infant mortality was 17 deaths per 1000 births while that of blacks was seven times higher, education was compulsory only for the whites from primary school right through to secondary school. On the other hand education for blacks was merely voluntary and for a large proportion of the Smith regime education for blacks not provided by the state but mainly by churches both Protestant and Catholic. My question to you, sir, is where is your evidence of the two tier system that you claim has been in operation in Zimbabwe; hasthere ever been documented the disparities in income, poverty, infant mortality, literacy and other indicators of well being between the Shona and the Ndebele?

There is the talk of discrimination of the Ndebele in the job market but given that as early as 1982 the economy required some intervention from the IMF, and that the economy was not creating as many jobs as there were job seekers how certain are you that the perceived exclusion from the job market was as a result of a deliberate policy by government as opposed to the effects of at best a stagnating economy or at worst an economy in recession? Indeed in my rudimentary search for these differences between Matebeleland and the rest of the country I have found not evidence of this marginalisation that is the flavour of the day amongst secessionists such as yourself. Levels of poverty in Matebeleland both north and south are no different to those in Mashonaland as are literacy rates, infant mortality and malnutrition. Please follow these links for more detail.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/EXTPOVERTY/EXTPA/0,,contentMDK:20204806~isCURL:Y~menuPK:435735~pagePK:148956~piPK:216618~theSitePK:430367,00.html

http://www.wider.unu.edu/publications/working-papers/research-papers/2008/en_GB/rp2008-41/

http://biblio.iss.nl/opac/uploads/wp/wp44.pdf

http://archive.lib.msu.edu/DMC/African%2...da005001002.pdf

http://www.nrsp.org.uk/database/documents/2958.pdf

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a713661432~db=all

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/117928980/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob...ca8758c63fc51a9


Given that the cornerstone of your calls of independence are predicated on being ?marginalised? and given that evidence of this ?marginalisation? is conspicuous by its absence in the published literature is it would appear that your claims for independence on the basis of being marginalised are baseless and without foundation. Let me ask this in another way ? had there been no ?marginalisation? and no Shona supremacists would you today be clamouring for Mthwakazi?s independence?

Thus to sum up my questions to you sir, can be viewed upon as regarding the ideological drive( independence because stomachs are empty or independence regardless of the state of the stomach) of iMpisi as well as its strategy (the carrot/stick). The former is just as important as the latter for without a strategy based on practicality and reality you would be akin to the boy owase maphoxweni owayekhalela ukugqoka amapatapata yena engela mazwane!

I trust that you will respond to these questions at your earliest convenience.
_________________________
Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong

Stupid is forever, ignorance can be fixed.

A mind is only useful if it is open

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#41751 - 01/16/09 01:24 PM Re: An open Letter to Mr Kirth Dube & others abeMpisi [Re: Jazelindizayo]
science Offline
Sakhamuzi
*

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 50
Loc: kwamthwakazi
great letter, now i feel at ease a bit, the main issue is, its like the mthwakazi group is just to justify charity donations or gain messy , well nothing wrong with that but they should have realistic means to address the main issues such as food and training of zimbaz in our region to have a mentality of winning

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#41755 - 01/16/09 02:07 PM MPC innovative or what
abedabuko Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 28
Loc: esigodlweni
Greetings

Well i have digested contents of a letter, a brother complaining or perhaps mentioning African leadership trend, such as ignoring calls to provide answers to common people, who at a later stage put them in power.To be honest i phoned MPC in USA during festive season and spoke to Dube, he was wellcoming and dignified.

During our conversation i offered him my contact details, hoping as agreed will pass them to Europe branch which is England anyway.To this very day i have not head from MPC.So the brother is quite fair to highlight such short comings as they might cost them in fututre if not careful monitored.

You have to engage with average men and women, interact with the general public to win their confidence, no matter how petty the issue might seem to MPC, be humble down to earth offer them platform. These ordinary people such as me will spread the word around in droves.

Thank you i hope MPC leadership views these views seriuos please.

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#41760 - 01/16/09 04:05 PM Re: An open Letter to Mr Kirth Dube & others abeMpisi [Re: science]
Madlenya Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 195
Loc: KwelikaMjoji
Dear Mr Jazi

I am not Mr Dube or an MPC official, but i will attempt at answering one or two of you concerns.
I will focus on the following two:
1) Velvet divorce- stick/carrot approach
2) Marginalisation

1) Velvet divorce:
This is an overaching strategy that MPC has adopted. The adoption of this strategy is commendable, taking into account the national, regional and international political and economic dynamics. In a struggle there can not be just one strategy, i think you will agree with me there Mr Jazi, strategies are in hierachical order or levels. There are some strategies which you can not go about shouting them to anybody and evrybody, at the wrong time and place. A struggle like MPC's demands deligence and political maturity. Only a fool would go around saying, i have a big stick, i will beat so and so into submission, because that would be preempting your strategies and your enemy will counter you very easy and effectively. I am not in any way suggesting that the MPC has a big stick or an alternative strategy to the one which you already know, but it would be foolhardy to even suggest that it does not have an alternative strategy. The MPC has adopted a wise strategy which could on its own right be a successful strategy if implemented with an unflinching zeal. I am sure that when the RIGHT strategy fails, the the second or alternative strategy will be handy. You can not expect to use the stick before the carrot. Use the carrot first, if it fails, take a stock, analyse the causes of failure, see whether the failure is caused by YOU or you enemy, then respond appropriately. I think i have tried to answer your question Mr Jazi, but i will also like you wait for Mr Dube's response.

2) Marginalisation.
You are misrepresenting MPC's position on this one, what i do not know is whether you do it deliberately or out of ignorance. In one of my threads we have spoken briefly about this, now let us interrogate this issue further. Firstly, i have to let you know that marginalisation in Mthwakazi is a reality, it is not a figment of our fertile minds, it is a reality. We know it because we are the victims of such marginalisation. We don't need anyone descending from the sky to tell us that we are under marginalisation. We are satisfied with what we know. Mthwakazi's desire for independence has never been predicated on marginalisation as you purport but it has always been rooted on the knowledge that we are a nation and all nations have a right to determine their destinies. This is the core reason why we want out. Other reasons are just peripheral. They seem huge to you and other people because they are emotive issues, that is expected.

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#41761 - 01/16/09 04:09 PM Re: An open Letter to Mr Kirth Dube & others abeMpisi [Re: Madlenya]
Madlenya Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 195
Loc: KwelikaMjoji
Mr Science and abedabuko

I for one does not regard you as bona fide Mthwakazians, i regard you as ZANU PF detractors.So what ever you say is not alarming or unexpected. You are fighting from and for your corner. If you think that you have a friend in Jazi by partonising him, let me tell you a secret, you can't win his favour in that regard.

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#41762 - 01/16/09 04:17 PM Re: An open Letter to Mr Kirth Dube & others abeMpisi [Re: Madlenya]
MTHWENTWEHLABA1 Offline
Nduna
**

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 360
Loc: UG
Originally Posted By: Madlenya
Mr Science and abedabuko

I for one does not regard you as bona fide Mthwakazians, i regard you as ZANU PF detractors.So what ever you say is not alarming or unexpected. You are fighting from and for your corner. If you think that you have a friend in Jazi by partonising him, let me tell you a secret, you can't win his favour in that regard.


jAZI,muntuongenankundla konke same fanana
_________________________
HLABA-1-AT A TIME

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#41765 - 01/16/09 06:14 PM Re: An open Letter to Mr Kirth Dube & others abeMpisi [Re: MTHWENTWEHLABA1]
Madlenya Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 195
Loc: KwelikaMjoji
JAZI
Could you please take time to read this piece from the president's message. Read it with your eyes and mind open this time around, i am sure that you will get all your answers from here.

Quote:
MPC wants the partition of today?s Zimbabwe into the new UMR and a reconstituted Zimbabwe.

For us that position says UMR and Zimbabwe must be strong states. Partition would not work if either or both were to be failed states. Thus our independence agenda for Mthwakazi does not exclude but includes Zimbabwe. Partition is not a position that is without precedent in international politics.

For some partition is a radical idea, for others it is crazy and unattainable, yet for others it is tribal or anything they care to label it. It needs no reminding that Zimbabwe?s own independence was once any one or more of these labels. But that is not my point.

For MPC, first, we have set in motion a political process. We have moved from a static position of the last 100 years towards a vision. Second, we have put the issue of Mthwakazi?s independence in the public domain and thrust it in the centre of Zimbabwean politics from now on. Third, this agenda puts paid to many assumptions and certainties of the past regarding the political and constitutional make-up of what is presently Zimbabwe. Lastly, MPC has created space for the development of new breed of leaders with political skills relevant for our time.

The people of Mthwakazi must now be afforded the opportunity to pass judgement on partition and independence. We see our role as having been to give the people of Mthwakazi a modern political vehicle through which they can make their case to the world. We are proud to have played that pioneering role.

Finally, in my introductory remarks I made reference to what people say about Zanu-PF; namely, that Zanu-PF is vicious. Zanu-PF?s viciousness is public knowledge. The infamous ?degrees in violence? and ?Hitler ten times? speeches are well-known and have been put to use time and time again on the people of present-day Zimbabwe. We can only pay tribute to all those who have fallen victim to Zanu-PF?s viciousness.

I wish to say, though, in relation to this point that MPC has refused to make Zanu-PF?s vicious character its default position. We have refused to define ourselves by and through the prism of Zanu-PF, by eliminating all options in political involvement and reducing them only to violence and viciousness. We have chosen instead to define ourselves the way we want. We have chosen to make our default position sense, good sense, because we know this position has resonance with all our peoples.

Against all odds, and against the fiercest attacks on our political method, MPC is winning the argument against the language of war, armed struggle, force, bases, etc. We are winning the political argument for a political solution achieved through political processes. The political reach of an independence agenda fought in the public political domain, it is gradually being acknowledged, is far deeper and far-reaching than what would be achieved by an underground armed movement whose political reach will usually only extend so far as its military campaigns extend.

We hope we have defined a character for ourselves, a character shaped by our vision of a new political order underpinned and supported by a set of new values relevant for our time and future generations.

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#41774 - 01/18/09 09:11 AM Re: An open Letter to Mr Kirth Dube & others abeMpisi [Re: Jazelindizayo]
mpumelelo101 Offline
Ngqwele
*

Registered: 06/14/08
Posts: 170
Loc: durban, south africa.
i am no MPC official but i would love to get your simple questions requiring simple answers!

with all due respect, it is disheartening to observe some misinformed people unleashing their denylist views on the evident issue of deliberate ndebele marginallisation. however, everone is entitled to their views, though their mental state will be determined by what those views are, eg one who says the world is "flat" despite blatant evidence to the contrary, is clearly brain dead, but is entitled to those views, because we believe in democracy and freedom of expression, no matter how stupid that expression is!!

DEVELOPMENT
jazi, you give us links for evidence. we don't need links, we live on the ground. having stayed and been educated in mthwakazi, it is evident that there has been a massive shona invasion, every where you go its he-re-he-re.in schools, in hospitals, in police stations, in banks, ematamatisini, in universities, in colleges, amajele!however how many institutions have been built to cater for the increase in uninvited guests?those are the statistics we need.
how many new referal hospitals have been built in matebeleland. zero!
how many airports? -1.(they destroyed byo airport)
how many science equiped schools?zero!
how many teacher training colleges? -1(they closed GTC)!
how many nurse training institutions? zero!
how many technical colleges zero!
how many proper universities have been built?1/2!and its full of shonas!!

then consider the FACT that shonas are invading our institutions(the best day schools, the best boarding schools), they have a "jump start" because omalume babo they "hold positions", then they go on to dominate every sector!you deny this FACT jazi?

POVERTY
your statistics says that differences in poverty levels are negligible! are you aware that every bona-fide mthwakazian family has at least one "njiva"?this has always been the case since the early 1900s.however it is obvious that the poverty levels of those without injiva is higher than those of shonas, because they have zero income, abaqhashwa, abathengisi amatamatisi ngoba kugcwele ama shona, owindi ngamashona, oma sawa ngamashona, they are doomed to die!

POLITICS OF THE STOMACH
we have always fought for our independence since king lobengula's umvukela wokuqala. you call that politics of the stomach?
_________________________
those who don't use their freedom to fight for their freedom will lose their freedom!!

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#41777 - 01/18/09 08:06 PM Re: An open Letter to Mr Kirth Dube & others abeMpisi [Re: Jazelindizayo]
MTHWENTWEHLABA1 Offline
Nduna
**

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 360
Loc: UG
Originally Posted By: Jazelindizayo

I trust that you will respond to these questions at your earliest convenience.


No one has got to address you. You have got to address everybody ngoba you have a problem with us being ourselves. Ungezwa or ungabona people addressing you they would just be attempting to save some one who would be in danger of being led astray by you, eg mthakathi27 who was led astray by you and you, who was in turn led astray by muntuongenastyle, who himself is highminded. Phela thina asifihli lutho.


Edited by MTHWENTWEHLABA1 (01/18/09 08:10 PM)
_________________________
HLABA-1-AT A TIME

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#41781 - 01/19/09 12:41 PM Re: An open Letter to Mr Kirth Dube & others abeMpisi [Re: MTHWENTWEHLABA1]
Mthakathi27 Offline
Nduna

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 323
Loc: Canada
Hayi madoda akelingizwise ukuthi lomnumzane uthini sibili.Uthi uMthakathi akalangqondo zakhe yikho ethatheka? Madoda ngumhlolo kaBatayi lowu, ngiyafunga ngiyagomela ngithi ongazi ngoMthakathi wezigodo akazi lutho.
Loma kunjalo kuyikuthi uyathatheka loma adukiswe, njengomuntu omdala kulilungelo lakhe lelo, kumele lihlonitshwe. Kodwa lomlisa uyangisukela, yena into ayikhangeleleyo yikuthi aphikisane loMthakathi wabantu.Yebo ngiqinisile nginguMthakathi wabantu mina. Ngithe lapho ngibhala ngibuza ngendlela iMPC esitshintshe ngakhona wangenza uhlanya, kodwa ngithe ngimphendula ngesihle langenhlonipho wavele wanyamalala. Lokhu kukhomba ukuthi lomlisa nguye uthathekile imota yasw...
Akacubungulisisi akubalayo, uvele abhudlukele emanzini, yikho lokhu okubangela uminza emfuleni lokhu. uShamase ngiyamthanda lapho ethi "Xukuzisa ugebhezi", uyabe ekhulumela kubantu abafanana loMthwentwe ongahlabiyo.
_________________________
Ngingumthakathi wezigodo, umkhunkuli, angibhenyelwa nsangu mina, lizowukhomba olotshwala.

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#41788 - 01/20/09 01:15 PM Re: An open Letter to Mr Kirth Dube & others abeMpisi [Re: Mthakathi27]
Jah Dingani Offline
Sakhamuzi
**

Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 63
Loc: Zimbabwe
The idea that anyone who operates outside the magnetic field or field of influence of MPC in terms of the organisation's philosophy or ideological view of the politics ezikaMthwakazi should always be on the firing line is at best absurd.

Zanu PF and Mugabe operate like this. Anyone who operates outside their ideological view of how the politics of Zimbabwe should operate is always on the firing line. We should not mirror this kind of Zanu PF politics. What would be the difference between Zanu PF and those that seek to reconstitute the politics of Zimbabwe?
_________________________
KANTI KWENZANI LOKHU KUTHI GWABI GWABI NGEMIKENKE YAKHO!

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#41791 - 01/20/09 02:32 PM Re: An open Letter to Mr Kirth Dube & others abeMpisi [Re: Jah Dingani]
science Offline
Sakhamuzi
*

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 50
Loc: kwamthwakazi
THERE SHOULD BE A CONTROL OF MONEY FIRST THEN AUTHORITY WILL BE SEEN

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#41796 - 01/20/09 08:49 PM Re: An open Letter to Mr Kirth Dube & others abeMpisi [Re: Jah Dingani]
duze Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 299
Loc: uk
so you think MPC is acting like zanu? ye, abafuni critism. isizwe sakwaMthwakazi sakhiwa ngokuvumela ilungelo lomuntu. kwaNkosi esintwini itshelwa emehlweni ukuthi iyaphazama. iNkosi.if iMPC kungabantu bakwaMthwakazi bakhuliswe ngakho lokho.

namanje sisasho ukuthi if umgabe kwakungoNkomo ephethe uMthwakazi kube sesambulala kudala.iNkosi yamakhosi uShaka sayiginqa phansi ngomkhonto. esintwini lento eyenzakala manje ezimbambwe ayenziwa. iMPC iyakwazi lokho. asizikhonzi izithixo thina.

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