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#41764 - 01/16/09 05:58 PM PARTITION OR SECESSION??
Mthakathi27 Offline
Nduna

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 323
Loc: Canada
The MPC has come with an interesting political approach, which it calls Partition, bafowethu in real terms, yini umahluko phakathi kwe partition le secession. Having said that, to me the word partition is more palatable and i think it is more politically apt for an agenda like MPC'S.
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Ngingumthakathi wezigodo, umkhunkuli, angibhenyelwa nsangu mina, lizowukhomba olotshwala.

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#41770 - 01/17/09 04:14 PM Re: PARTITION OR SECESSION?? [Re: Mthakathi27]
MTHWENTWEHLABA1 Offline
Nduna
**

Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 360
Loc: UG
Originally Posted By: Mthakathi27
The MPC has come with an interesting political approach, which it calls Partition, bafowethu in real terms, yini umahluko phakathi kwe partition le secession. Having said that, to me the word partition is more palatable and i think it is more politically apt for an agenda like MPC'S.


Do you mean MPC or your keyboard is playing up? I was just beginning to buy your story of Impisi suphinda masinyazana suyalala ngeslanti, yindaba mfo?


Edited by MTHWENTWEHLABA1 (01/17/09 04:21 PM)
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HLABA-1-AT A TIME

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#41771 - 01/17/09 05:09 PM Re: PARTITION OR SECESSION?? [Re: MTHWENTWEHLABA1]
Mthakathi27 Offline
Nduna

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 323
Loc: Canada
Mthwe
It is obvious that you did not read Mr Mkhwananzi's message, if you did, it is now clear that you did not understand a word. When i read these messages i do not read them with my eyes closed nor with my mind shut. Am i the only one who realised this important shift in MPC's core strategy? The implications of this move are important to note. I will try to explain what i mean, but i am not totally certain about this, i will be happy if MPC pfficials could shed some light. This shift i think it means that MPC is going to involve itself in Zimbabwean politics, such as elections. When the next Zimbabwean elections come it is most likely that MPC will participate. When MPC adopted the Secession agenda it made it clear that it was not going to get involved in any form of Zimbabwean elections except a Referandum asking Mthwakazi whether she wanted to be part of Zimbabwe or not. This is how i interpret this Mr Mthwente, nonetheless, i would like to tell you a secret, your president a master -speech writer not even Obama could nearly write a speech as beautiful as his. As from yesterday, i am no longer ashamed to call him my president, he deserves it, he is inspiring, he is a great visionary and i am sure that he is going to make an excellent leader. Let us be on the gaurd, let us build him, let us protect him, but we must never forget to criticise him, that will keep him on toes.

Quote:
Before I close, I want to comment briefly on MPC?s agenda.

MPC wants the partition of today?s Zimbabwe into the new UMR and a reconstituted Zimbabwe.

For us that position says UMR and Zimbabwe must be strong states. Partition would not work if either or both were to be failed states. Thus our independence agenda for Mthwakazi does not exclude but includes Zimbabwe. Partition is not a position that is without precedent in international politics.

For some partition is a radical idea, for others it is crazy and unattainable, yet for others it is tribal or anything they care to label it. It needs no reminding that Zimbabwe?s own independence was once any one or more of these labels. But that is not my point.

For MPC, first, we have set in motion a political process. We have moved from a static position of the last 100 years towards a vision. Second, we have put the issue of Mthwakazi?s independence in the public domain and thrust it in the centre of Zimbabwean politics from now on. Third, this agenda puts paid to many assumptions and certainties of the past regarding the political and constitutional make-up of what is presently Zimbabwe. Lastly, MPC has created space for the development of new breed of leaders with political skills relevant for our time.

The people of Mthwakazi must now be afforded the opportunity to pass judgement on partition and independence. We see our role as having been to give the people of Mthwakazi a modern political vehicle through which they can make their case to the world. We are proud to have played that pioneering role.
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Ngingumthakathi wezigodo, umkhunkuli, angibhenyelwa nsangu mina, lizowukhomba olotshwala.

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#41795 - 01/20/09 08:40 PM Re: PARTITION OR SECESSION?? [Re: Mthakathi27]
duze Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 299
Loc: uk
Mthakathi yini embi ngukutshintsha indlela owenza ngayo izinto. times they are changing mfo.you emphasize the word shift.so what if the MPC shifts? are you for or against or are you trying to point to a weakness of the MPC? to be honest , i see no wrong in changing stratergies. maybe you can enlighten me.

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#41799 - 01/20/09 09:57 PM Re: PARTITION OR SECESSION?? [Re: duze]
Mthakathi27 Offline
Nduna

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 323
Loc: Canada
Duze
Angizange ngitsho ukuthi ukuntshintsha yinto embi, mina into ebengiykhalela yikuthi asikhangeleni ukuthi yiwaphi ama implications ontshintsho. Njalo uma sihamba sitshumayeza abantu sicela ukuthi bajoyine kumele sazi ukuthi lolutshintsho lutshoni. Uhamba uyetshumayeza abantu wena unga qondisisi ukuthi inhlanganiso iqhuba kanjani njalo kungani iqhuba ngendlela eqhuba ngayo uyaphenduka isilima phambi kwabantu, asifundisaneni madoda, njalo sifunde ukubhekisisa izinto. Ayikho into embi ngokucubungula inhlelo zebandla lethu. Lokhu kuzabanikeza amandla njalo lokukhalipha lokucabanga kakhulu ngaphambi kokuthi basethulele amaplani abo. As i sad somewher else, i am now happy to call Mr Mkhwananzi my president, i will not let him walk this lonely road alone, we will walk it together, shoulder to shoulder. The time for criticisms is gone and not getting involved is gone and hopefully forever.

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Ngiyabonga Jah, uliLasta elikhulu wena, kodwa ke mina i do not take these strategic politiocal shifts likely. I am aware that the end results would be the same i.e. an Independent state of Mthwakazi. There must be a reason why the President or the MPC thought of changing their modus operandi. Mr Mkhwananzi said it was not a matter of semantics, but there are fundamental differences. I agree with you Jah on that the enemy would not differentiate between secession and partition, to them it is one and the same thing.
Let me again try to analyse this shift focusing particularly on the election participation, it my belief that this shift has two purposes, that is a legal basis and a political basis. On legal basis the aim is to run away from the notion of violence and the legal implications therein. If an organmisation is violent and seeks to reconstitute a state by means of violence, these days it is hard to get international support and recogntion and it might fight itself at the Hague, answering for war crimes. The political basis is intricately linked with legal factors as well, but here it is essential to note that MPC as a movement has chosen a peaceful political solution and therefore the Partition approach supposes that there would be no violence employed in attaining Mthwakazi's goal of Independence. The mere fact that this Partition approach has dichotonomous effects means that MPC leaders are clever and they would not be found wanting on any front. I suspect that the MPC would want to try to participate in the elections, even if you read the President's message, his unsually or deliberate use of the words "Mthwakazi and Zimbabwe", is definitely telling. The language has somewhat changed from the norm, and i think this is deliberate too, just to psychologically condition or prepare its supporters for the elections.

What are implications of MPC's participation in the electoral process?
To be honest, i am not sure, but i think we need to look at what the MPC stands for, in short the MPC stands for the Independence of Mthwakazi. So if it were to be seen participating in Zim elections it would be regarded or treated like organisations like PUMA, ZAPU Federal Party; LPZ etc, these organisations are seen as tribalistic or representing the interests of just a few in the Zimbabwean political context. I am afraid that the MPC shall fall in the same category and therefore swiftly into oblivion. Yes, there may be advantages of MPC participating in the elections, such as gaining the political mandate from the elctorate and influencing the Zimbabwean politics from within, but not from within ZANU as Jonah (allegedly tried to do). I am not expecting any response from the MPC but some kind of clarification would be appreciated.
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Ngingumthakathi wezigodo, umkhunkuli, angibhenyelwa nsangu mina, lizowukhomba olotshwala.

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#41827 - 01/22/09 09:00 PM Re: PARTITION OR SECESSION?? [Re: Mthakathi27]
duze Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 03/16/08
Posts: 299
Loc: uk
Mthakathi.
mfowethu ngiyezwa kulungile ubuze. uqinisile ngempela inhlangano kufanele icace. kodwa mfo kukhona ubumbulu. uzwe nje ukuthi lo, uyambuluza.kuliqiniso ngempela ukuthi ihlangano ihloniphe imigomo yayo. yaziwe icace.uzbanabani nozbani bengahlangani besebetshintshela imigomo.kodwa iMPC ngithemba uma itshintsha imigomo yabo bakwenza ngokuhlangenyela hayi umuntu noma abantu abathile bebodwa.

umuntu uyaqhamuka usekhuluma amaganyana afana no shift as if to highlight untrustworthiness. its not a shift but change. it is not even worth mentioning. forward we go.

mina angisiyona iMPC member. i have my own doubts, kodwa what they are doing its great, good men. only if they could realise ukuthi we are dealing with people abane centuries of our hatred. talk?? angazi .uMdala wandiza eNtumbane wathi izikhali phansi sokusho mina kwaba yikufa kwethu.talk??. cut the crap, akuvele kuthiwe madoda siqedeni vele siyafa kukumanje. sifeni nabo. bazi ukuthi bakhona abazimisele ukufa nabo these racist rapist thugs.asilwi namaTshona kodwa lawo maTshona agcwele kithi behamba bethatha amaschool houses bewenza amapolice camps raping our sisters, we have to make a point ukuthi enough is now.iMPC kube ithatha unyawo olunjalo ibone ukuthi iyothola abalandeli abanganani.

kuvele kungafihlwa kulolongwa into engapheli.phela ther is no garanteed success in every aproach. this could be the winner. induku ayikhombe kubo mani.iKMPC ayihlanganise neyethu imbono.

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#41829 - 01/22/09 09:26 PM Re: PARTITION OR SECESSION?? [Re: duze]
Sibambamahawu Offline
Ndunankulu
***

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 803
Loc: KwaGodlwayo
Duze
Let me take this opportunity to engage and plead with you, i am writing as an MPC member but strictly on private capacity. I think Mthakathi has a point even though he is prone to lose direction at times, but now i think he has a valid point.
My reason for writing to you is to appeal to your strategic senses, i hope you do understand what i mean by that. The organisation is at its infancy. When the MDC started noone ever mentioned an armed struggled and many never envisaged the current negotiations, but as of now many people within and outside the MDC are promoting the paradgym, they are itching for a fight. If they pick up guns today, noone will blame them and they can easily get international support. You might wonder why this MDC explanation when the organisation under discussion is the MPC, the answer is simple, the MPC must do what it suppose to do, naturally things will transform themselves, if they transform themselves to the paradgym you always cry for then let it be, but before that, let the MPC cover the necessary groundwork. We do not want a still-born baby. Have you heard ngempi yehawu? Duze i commend your bravery, but what i am asking of you right now is to join the MPC, learn the MPC's processes and it would be easier for you to lead from within MPC in your endeavours. Duze let me tell you one thing, i am one of those whose hands are itching, i fully subscribe to your views, join the MPC, me and you could move the world.
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THE RACE IS NOT FOR THE SWIFT NOR THE BATTLE FOR THE STRONG, BUT FOR THOSE WHO ENDURETH.

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