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#453 - 06/23/04 03:33 PM Re: ACTION
Mtshede Offline

Registered: 08/02/02
Posts: 632
Loc: London
I have made some swingeing attacks on the credibility and the tactics adopted by the two accused in this trial and some of our colleagues have advanced similar criticisms on their credibility here.

I stand by the view that exhortations to Mthwakazians to fight modern weaponry with spears and shields is irresponsible to say the least and doomed to tragedy and even worse than tragedy, doomed to FAILURE.

Having said this, I would like to agree that the two accused need to be given the benefit of the doubt regarding their motives and their financial backing.

I would like to go even further and say that should it transpire that they do indeed deserve our deepest suspicion for the worst reasons even then the opportunity must be extended to them to allow their rehabilitation because if they are who I fear they may be then they will have inside information and access to classifiend information and state secrets that will be extremely valuable in the future.

The example that springs to mind is of course that of a certain Enos Nkala who will one day have the opportunity to support the investigations and prosecutions of Gukurahundi offenders thanks to his intimate first hand knowledge of the orders that came from the very top to the very bottom of the death squads.

There are no reasons that I know of for me to admire Mr Siwela and I am sure there are no reasons for him to admire me but fair is fair.

I just wish that the State had decided to prosecute Mr David Mpala for example or Mr Patrick Nabanyama rather than imposing the death sentence by summary injustice.

I wonder whether it is possible to calibrate the effectiveness of an opponent of the regime according to whether he is given rough treatment or soft treatment?

In any event I am sure Mr Siwela thanks his lucky stars or whoever else is responsible for allowing him to live for the purposes of this trial.

I hope we learn a lot in the process.

#454 - 06/23/04 03:57 PM Re: ACTION
Sgero Offline

Registered: 05/31/04
Posts: 643
Loc: United Kingdom
Sizabona lapho okuzawela induku loxakuxaku kundaba ka Siwela. Uzatsho laye phambi kukuamahluli ukuthi umele bani. We heard uMandela ku Rivonia Treason Trial ezitsho ukuba yena 'it is an ideal that he is prepared to die for'

Kayilonde indaba yakhe we will be watching with interesting eyes as it proceeds le ndaba. Singadidana nge ngqondo, asimeni singayibambi ngekhanda inhlwa. Maybe u right u Mtshede nxa esithi simphe i benefit of doubt. Kodwa laye uzilethele lolu dubu ngokungabi sobala in his dealings. Azabakhona amahemeheme as long as he is not an open book.

#455 - 06/23/04 05:19 PM Re: ACTION
Sheik Mthembo Offline

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 629
Loc: The People's Republic of Mthwa...
I aslo think that it is also right for us to sit back, sit tight and watch this Siwela Indaba unfold.

As the Indaba unfolds we will be able to come to conclusions ngala amajaha.

I am sure uZulu will protect them at the time of her choosing.

For now uZulu ubukele and is following the indaba with interest.

#456 - 06/26/04 08:48 PM Re: ACTION
Zwangendaba Offline

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 1399
Loc: New York, New York, USA

Mina indaba ezinje ziyangesabisa ngoba sengake ngatshiswa Ngumgaxabe ngo 1985, lo 1987. Sasingamalunga e Campaign Committee ye ZAPU, icala kuyikuthi sidingani e HARARE.

Lizangixolela ngoba ngiyahlanganisa indaba. Siphakathi babesitshela ukuthi sithi "Incriminate" ezinye inkokheli zethu. Ungala they torture you and go out and spread the WORD privately ukuthi wena usubasebenzela.

U Siwela angimvikeli sibili, ngoba udaba lwakhe lokungananzi u MADLELA onguye ongu President ku ZAPU sikhuluma nje ngiyalwazi. Kodwa okokuthengisa angikwazi. Into engesabisayo yikuthi sizahleka umuntu etshiswa kanti kala cala.

This brings me to the argument I always put forward, kanti thina kasiziboni sisenza okwethu singelabo na ABASIZONDAYO???


I wish I had power to make our people including Siwela realize that NONE BUT OURSELVES can chant our path to freedom. Ukuxamalaza lokhu umuntu uyaze adabuke.

Li Zwangendaba.

#457 - 06/27/04 12:02 AM Re: ACTION
mqondobanzi magonya Offline

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 79
Loc: uk
Mr Chairman, allow me space to try and say a few words regarding Siwela and Mkhwanazi.

I am disturbed by the level of myopia and shallowness that has been displayed by some people claiming to be Mthwakazi advocates. I think this idea of calling each other names should end because kayakhi. If anyone has problems with individuals confront them and leave inkundla for serious debate hatshi amandlwane.

It will not be proper to call others omafikizolo kupolitics, but some levels of ignorance are compelling. I was once called a cio on this site and when i trecked the source of these accusations only to find that it is the very same people who tried to burn me in the house with my family. My sin was the formation of Vukani Mahlabezulu, Imbovane Yamahlabezulu and the revival of Zapu. There are the very same people who took me and LIQWA GAMA to the magnet house in Bulawayo. I say shame on you nzalo yabafana. You can call us names and label us anything, but what we have done is above your means.

I have known Paul from the time when he was at Mpopoma Secondary in the seventies. I have seen him through his political carrier until the first time when he contested the paliarmentary elections in 1995 as an independent canditate against ZANU PF. From the time when he left the PTC to run his own small business no one has ever had any problems with him. He was Mthwakazi,s darling after his appearence on ZTV tearing Jonathan Moyo in 2000. So where did he wrong?

Problems started after ZAPU,s visit to SA where the ANC started talking so high of him and sounding the possilbility of him succeeding Nkomo as the leader of ZAPU. This was not publicly pronounced but one could tell from the press conference they addressed on their arrival from South Africa at the selbourne hotel. ZAPU had sent a delegation of three. Considering the relations that we always enjoyed with ANC in the past, it was the advise of the ANC that ZAPU should participate in both the parliamentary and presidential elections. When an argument was advanced regarding the spliting of the vote those fears were dismissed as we were not going to make any difference at all. What was important was for the party to register its federal idealogy and that Mthwakazi can also vie for the highest office on land. ZAPU convened an executive meeting and the party endorsed the suggestions and the central committee passed them. So we went into the paliarmentary elections with full knowledge that we were going to lose. That is how some people got to know about federalism. Then came the presidential elections were Siwela polled the least votes. This is when all went wrong. The central committee did not want the party president to stand as he was unpopular and almost a liability. He refused argueing that he was to be the candidate as the head of the party. I was at pains in trying to convince him to accept the party,s decision as there was no constitutional basis for his arguement. He then went to MDC and asked for assistance and they offered him more than $400 000 AND THEIR PARTY CARDS, legal assistance through a lawyer who has since told all about it. He made a deal with MDC and they agreed that if he gets a court interdict barring Siwela from using the party name, MDC would in turn offer him the position of a govenor in Mat/South. So his world crumblled when MDC lost the election. He is now a very strong critic of MDC. The MDC youths who were used to masquerade as ZAPU, s central committee members are all party of ZAPU today and they have said it all. At one point they went to demand the balance of their payment from this man for the job done in the presence of a journalist. Iam free to give some of their names if the need arrise. MDC employed the same tactics in trying to split ZANU NDONGA towards the same election. Ask their member of paliarment he will tell you.

I have no regrets for refusing to join mdc and i still insists it would have been disaster for Mthwakazi had they won the elections.


The club sent an offial to his office asking him to try and facillitate a meeting between the club and Jonathan Moyo. The club wanted to ask for $8million for the champions tournament. He told the official that it was impossible as they never saw eye to eye with the minister. He asked if there was anything wrong with him giving the club that money. The official sort a meeting between Siwela and the club board members and some executive members. His only condition was that he be allowed to hand over the money to the club at the stadium without saying a word. This did not go down well with other members who supported MDC so much. Mind you this was towards the election. Some members then went to the press and the story started that Siwela was given money by ZANU to bribe Highlanders. I know both the writer of the story and the club members who provided the story to the reporter. Both are here and are longer mdc members. I can name them if a need arise.I have spoken to both of them and they agree that it was polical expedience.

This fellow called Paul Siwela is a businessman. Ask merlin, Bata and national blankets. He is the managing director of Kingchem. He supplies chemicals. At a time when we were earnig $5000 as executive officers he was making almost ten million a month. I knew his financial position because we use to audit their books and offer him financial advise regarding investment etc. Also his wife is a professional employed fultime.

It is not true that his case is comming up now as a cover up as suggested by someone. When these guys were arrested they spent 18 days at Khami until they got bail. I raised their bail from this side and sent it home. Others at home also contributed. The last time they appeared in court was probable their sixth appearance. If one is suspicious regarding the time factor , what would you say regarding Tswangirayi,s case which took even much longer.

AS for George Mkhwanazi, this man is the current President of Imbovane YaMahlabezulu. He is a cut above the rest. Anyone wishing to talk to them their contact details are Mkhwanazi 0026391286805, Siwela 0026311606257.

Lets desist from baseless accussations as these will further divide and weeken us.

Awungeke ukhubeke uhlezi, ingamzala umuntu koMhlahlandela. Siwuhambile umango awubanjiswane kuzakuba seduze lasiyakhona.

I hope i am within your prescribed limits Sibalukhulu. If i overlaped my apologies.

UHlayisa amadoda ngegonondo
UPhakathwayo kaKhondlo

#458 - 06/27/04 05:45 AM Re: ACTION
Bhekuzulu Khumalo Offline

Registered: 11/19/01
Posts: 231
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Mina my interest in Siwela is the stand he has made. He is making public what I would think many Ndebeles want to resolve. His court date was postponed because of a funeral

However I seriously doubt a regional part can kick out ZANU. It is highly unlickely. USiwela the way I would understand is very emotional. That is great because without passion one would not get very far. But the problem with being entirely emotional is what happens if the passion dies and you have not got what you want. You still need somehow to fullfil that want.

I hope in court truly Siwela reveals a lot of things explaining why Shona's must be kicked out of Matabeleland with spears nobody has. But at least he will say it. There is such and such a document such and such obvious things have been done to undermine Ndebeles and if he sues ZANU the better.

Gentleman do not reveal secrets excapt those in the very past. USiwela if he is friends with the ANC great but does iSitha need to know that. I have had many people tell me so and so was meant to replace Nkomo.

I was there in Johannesburg when Siwela came talking about the idea of a Matabeleland Development Fund in 1996. I still think that is a great idea. Clearly Siwela had a lot of connections in South Africa, the meeting was well organized. The Matabeleland Development Fund did not take off. In hindsight, I blame us not Siwela. Siwela was at the meeting with one of the Hlalo brothers. That is a brilliant idea and I sincerely hope it will be undertaken soon, madoda i1000 rands each sibelamashares, hatshi, four weeks with no booze. Anyway that is past we learn from our mistakes.

This thing of Ndebeles cooperating has existed and would have worked where it not for the envy of Shonas. I mean amabutho we ZAPU put money together to buy ranches and hotels, iZanu yabatshotshela, shame bafowethu.

Hatshi, mina uSiwela I wish he exposes what he must in his court case, but when I vote I want ZANU out.

In my thinking Siwela is alife because MDC was the bigger threat, not because he is a sell out. uMthandazo Ndema Ngwenya died not because he is more Ndebele loving than Siwela but because at the time there was no large opposition and the awakening of Ndebeles was a threat, Ndebeles or the people of the region of Mthwakazi. I hope you can understand my thinking. Now for ZANU Ndebele nationalism is a threat, but the bigger threat is losing political power and that is the MDC. If Siwela sais what he said at the time of Ndema Ngwenya he would have died or if lucky driven into exile.

#459 - 06/27/04 04:50 PM Re: ACTION
inina Offline

Registered: 05/18/04
Posts: 62
Loc: tsholotsho
thanking you for your timely response MQO.Your efforts in trying to allay our fears over the above issue is highly recommended.however , dear mqo, by expressing our discontent on the sanctity of the above guys does not mean we are myopic nor shallow minded,knowing you as l do mqo, l will regard the above unfortunate words as a slip of a tougue.

mqo, when mthwakazians start questioning the nobleness of ones' actions , more often than not something untoward will be taking shape.l believe in the sincerity of your attempts to cleanse the soiled integrities of the two gentleman concerned, but in mthwakaziland we always say 'ugodo oludala alweluleki'
despite your spirited efforts in helping us to view the two guys in different light.
lt is equally incumbent on the two questionable guys to convice uus on the sincerity of their is not our calling to condemn any of our brothern to political oblivion but it is the nocturnal doings of some people which condemns them to polltical extinctness.
MQO,having held directorshiop post in siwela's zanupf funded companies , l fully comprehend the zest with which you will rise to defend the gentleman.
lts unfortunate because you have vested interest in siweal's pie , you will always trek considerable miles to protect your gravy train its only natural.
my slight discomfort with your attempt to cleanse the gentleman is that you have a conflict of is understandable that having worked with him ,it is probable that yoo too could have been recruited into the same stable for good or for bad.
l dont comprehend how if his genuine business activities were generating a handsome revenue as purpoted by you, how come he has always been evicted from his business premises for failing to pay office rentals for over one year.
am l not to believe that, his ecomomic woes led him into become the judas of our political times?
l have taken the liberty of talking and discussing with siwela most of the times when he is in harare which he oftenly likes, in my discussion with my dear brother l have found his answers very devious
l also question his eligibility to attend certain gvm functions, this lways lives a sour taste in my mouth
lam not condenming our dear brother, but there is something of the night about his conduct.
he must come clean and we will surely march hand in glove with him
lastly when a member of our esteemed forum espresses an opinon discorded to yours , it is inappropriate or unfortunateto label them mentally myopipc and of being of shallow minds.we are against the stratification of the honourable forum members

ngiyabonga bobaba, lina ondlela zimhlophe, lina baka malandela, lina omjukwane kandabe.

#460 - 06/27/04 04:53 PM Re: ACTION
Mabila Offline

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 2124
Loc: Ayowa

Obviously, the advent of computers, internet lokunengi okunjalo, has openned up communication channels in such a huge scale never imagined before. I for one admire this and will never stop marvelling at technological inventions zama selula lama computer. It is some of the finest arts and sciences zomuntu.

Udubo nantu,nxa sixoxa on a forum like this ngamabizo abantu, ngama ideas ethu, izifiso zethu and the like, for how long to they remain uniquely hours or do we now own them with the enemy. Nguyakhumbula how the Forum party yadilika ngenxa ye infliltration yama CIO, who were largely Ndebeles. Lakhathesi akhona amaCIO asebenza kubo Msika who carry Ndebele names and they could be very well among us. Esikuxoxa lapha masinya kufika endlebeni ze Zanu and the individuals quickly identified. They will study your weaknesses masinya and diliza you the way they did uLearnmore Jongwe! Imicabango yethu ibasegcekeni and we are exposed and in danger as a people. I trully support the ideas being modelled here and would be the happiest being seeing them come to fruitition.

I apprecaite our frustrations with our dispersion and yet wanting to build together. Nxa, sifuna ukubumba into eloqotho, we cannot do it this way, NEVER! Ngitshilo in another posting yesterday ukuthi ngilusapo lweZAPU. Ngangimfitshane yes, but nxa ubaba exoxa khathesi, it was all underground work. Sasisizwa kuphela sebengaba botshiweyo in the strangest of places. Omama labo were completely taken by surprise ALL the time. You have to be very discreet, isitha sethuke selisitshaye nge surprise. This is a very dangerous game.

If what I am reading on these pages are just critiques and academic exercises, it is still potentially dangerous. We can hide behind anonymity, but it is not enough. Always remember ukuthi ekhaya kulendlala and ukuthenga umuntu olambileyo kuthsipile. Sesabayizihwaba too much!

#461 - 06/27/04 06:59 PM Re: ACTION
Sgero Offline

Registered: 05/31/04
Posts: 643
Loc: United Kingdom
Mqo, ayi, ngiyabona uyabhada lapha lapha. Maybe into etshiyo liNina ukuthi njengoba lawe ubungu directorship yama kampani ka Mfowethu, ungabe ule selective objectivism. Ubhekane lokuthi isinkwa sakho sisindelwa kuphi. In one of you statements Mqo ukukhuluma nge ndaba ye $8m eyayifunwa yi Highlanders. I want you to take a step back mfowethu and look at the 'real' idea behind i publicity that he wanted, ngoku presenter i cheque at the stadium. Fine he could have been looking for i extra mileage for his campaign, but honestly if he had the people in his heart, kwakuzabalula nje ukuthi adlulise nje leyo mali and wait for i Highlanders to see how they were going to acknowledge that gift. To me, that smacked of personal aggrandisement. One other thing that you don't realise mfowethu is that leyo Highlanders yi team yabantu, eyesizwe and has no political affiliation.

#462 - 06/27/04 10:28 PM Re: ACTION
mqondobanzi magonya Offline

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 79
Loc: uk
Just a bit of clarification, The auditing standards and ethics do not allow one to audit an entity were one is a stakeholder. I have never held a directorship in the same company as Paul Siwela. You are free to check the records with the registrar of companies in Zimbabwe. ININA should read and understand my statement correctly.

I agree fully iHighlanders yithimu yesizwe, but induna foods would present its sponsorship to the team eBF so that we buy their products. Let our analysis seize to be selective. However i do not suggest that his idea was right, not at all.This was and still remains as his right.

SGERO i have no reasons zokubhada. That time i will never have as i devote more of my time to the revolution.

Nevertheless i remain grateful to ININA and all of you gentlemen as i have learnt a lot from your contributions. Lets be positive . What is the way forward?

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