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#4685 - 06/02/03 07:57 PM 'Get rid of Mugabe'
Sheik Mthembo Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 629
Loc: The People's Republic of Mthwa...
It is a Saturday.It is the month of May 2003. Me and my friend are having a relaxed weekend right at the capital of England. He has joined me in my place, mid-morning. We are downing a few of castle largers and helping ourselves to imhwabha(dried meat), which we got from a certain store in central london which sells home foods. <p>The sun is bright and the weather is lovely. Sinyikinya lapha sixukuxe lapha. It is fun. Later on we decide to go to the pub and down more. We are discussing the situation back home and how our kith and kin are suffering. <p>We get to the pub and we get our pints(castle) and as we make our way to sit down to a particular table, some two guys, sitting opposite to our intended table, soon talk to us and ask us where we come from?<p>My friend replies that we come from 'kwaBulawayo'. They laugh at this and feel we should say we come from Zimbabwe. But we are quick to point out that we needed to be specific of where we come from, amid laughter. I gues you can tell where the conversation will lead to. <p>We are keen to maintain telling them that we come from kwaBulawayo in a country so called Zimbabwean. <p>They are in their mid twenties. They heard us talking in our venecular, isiNdetshu and could identify us quickly. We greet each other and sit around a table together. Some sips, some more sips and soon we find ourselves discussing Zimbabwe in more detail. As we do so we are joined by some Zambians and the discussion gets even more interesting!<p>These guys are from the North and they are keen to discuss politics back home. I ask them what they think is the solution to the catastrophic situation back home?<p>One is quick to point out that the solution is to get rid of Mugabe. My friend leans forward and tells him that this is a half baked solution. The soultion is to get rid of the system in Zimbabwe, created by Mugabe and Zanu Pf and the system starts with individuals from the North! <p>He points out that the guy needs to 'get rid of himself first'. The chap is puzzled by this. My friend elaborates and then delves into the tribal politics which every Shona has supported Mugabe for , for all these years, that they have been and continue to be part of it. He points out that getting rid of Mugabe is not the solution!<p>He goes on to point out that individuals from the North need to be reconstructed from the virulent and tribalist hegemonist system that is in Zimbabwe!<p>He quickly gets into the massacres and the fact that when these things happened they never cried out 'get rid of Mugabe' only now that they are affected!<p>The guys tell us that the Guhurahundi issues were pure genocide but would not be drawn to say they were part of it. When pressed to say why they never protested and asked for getting rid of Mugabe, they say they were very young to do so! Fair point!<p>We then ask about their parents, whether they think they ever protested at that human carnage by their fellow sons and daughters in Guhurahundi? The answer is that they never protested and goals shift now to, 'we were never told the truth'<p>When asked if Simba Makoni was to leader would they be in a position to support a 'reformed'(this is a deleberate word that was chosen' and these chaps said yes they will! <p><br>When the discussion gets more interesting, the guys apologise and leave. They have something to attend to.<p>The striking thing about this is that the discussion was very cordial but we were miles apart in our thinking!<p>They think that they are not part of the problem in Zimbabwe, but we think they are. They think Mugabe, only Mugabe alone is the problem in Zimbabwe, we think Mugabe and Zanu Pf and the Shona system, which Mugabe has been at the helm of it is the root cause of most of the problems in Zimbabwe!<p>And indeed in this conversation what was more apparent is that there was lack of trust and honesty in discussing these issues from their part! They tended to shift goal posts in the discussion and this was another evidence enough that these chaps can never be trusted!<p>Now the crucial thing is this? Are we ever gonna converge in our thinking with these chaps? This brings me to the Federal Question posed by honourable Mpho in his excellent piece of work posted here!<p>Can we really co-exist with these chaps? Is Federalism the answer to our problems? Federalism becomes irrelevant where there is no mutual trust and where honesty lacks.<p>Therefore kumele sihlubuke bakwethu!<p><br>Hlasela!<br>

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#4686 - 06/02/03 08:02 PM Re: 'Get rid of Mugabe'
Sheik Mthembo Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 629
Loc: The People's Republic of Mthwa...
Corrections; On 'reformed' should be 'reformed' ZPF!

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#4687 - 06/03/03 05:14 AM Re: 'Get rid of Mugabe'
Ndukuzibomvu Offline
Ngqwele
****

Registered: 01/04/03
Posts: 176
Loc: KwaGuqangamadolo
Mazinyane eSilo soHlanga:<p>Ngiyalibulisa lonke jikelele, njalo ngithemba liphilile lapho elihleli khona. Awuboni ke mina bengithethe ikhefu kuzinsukwana ezedluleyo, ngihambahamba kuleli engihleli kulo. Kuyangijabulisa kabi ukuphindela khona lapha endlini kaMthwakazi, indluyengwe mpela! Umthunzi ophumula amajongosi!!<p>Udaba lolu okhuluma ngalo Mgcinisihlalo lunzima, lujulile, njalo lujiyile. Ludaba oluthelela abetshabi nezikhothamathe zabo umhedehede. Akukho into eyethusa abetshabi njengodaba lokuvuselelwa kukaMthwakazi wemandulo. Khepha ke, iqiniso yikuthi siyeza isiqhotho, noma kunjani. Amalangabi kaMthwakazi azabembesa abahaqaze bawuhlabe umkhosi libalele ilanga. Wena owake wabheka inhlanzi itshelwe ngamanzi uyazi ukuthi kuzobanjani ngemini yakhona. Bazahlanhlatha bagcwale amahlathi abafokazana.Bazofisa ukuthi ngabe abazalwanga. Bazofisa ukuthi ngabe umhlaba uyavuleka ubaginye, banyamalale. Cishe ngilibale, kahle kengigcizelele ukuthi ke yena uZulu le eNingizimu Afrika uyibhekile ngamehlo wonke lendaba yeSizwe. Sengike ngakhuluma labo abanye bethu abaphuma le emva. Kukhanya ayibaphathi kahle lendaba. Njalo bathi bona kuningi abakufunda kulesisiga esehlela amazinyane esilo soHlanga. Bheka ke bayazi njalo bayasho ukuthi yena uMthwakazi ngemvelo ufana lezinkomo ezavula inqaba ngezimpondo, zafohla kunxitshiwe, zahamba! Akukho ngisho lento eyodwa nje enganqabela iSizwe ekugqibeni lomsebenzi omkhulukazi osufeziwe. <p>Kuyiqiniso mpela ukuthi izikliwi zesitshabini zaziwa ngokuguqula imibala yazo ngengonwabu. Kuyimvelo yabo lokhu, njalo akufanelanga kusethuse kumbe kusimangaze, cha. Indunandini yabo le engutshalibegi nxahandini babeyithanda kabi kuleminyaka engamatshumi amabili eyedluleyo. Utshalibegi nabetshabi jikelele bekungamathe lolimi, mfowethu. Bekuzimbila zantabanye. Bebemkhonza abetshabi utshalibegi, ikakhulu ngenkathi ebulala abantu bakithi ngezidlova lenswelaboya zabo ezingamagwalandini. Amabutho ahlasela izakhamizi. Amabutho ahlasela, abulale, njalo abhinye omame nabodade bakaMthwakazi. Ngamabutho mhlobobani ahlasela izakhamizi ezingelazikhali?? Ngamabutho mhlobobani abhinya omame nabodade beSizwe? Injongo yabo isegcekeni kuyewonke olamehlo. Akusimfihlo ukuthi ngaleyonkathi utshalibegi ubeyisithandwa sabetshabi bonke jikelele. Bheka ke namhlanje sebethi bona babengazi! Kambe?! Hhayi bo, uMthwakazi akasilo usane! Abanye bathi uMthwakazi likhehla, ngofuzo langenjulo yakhe. Uma bethi babengazi, injongo yabo inye nje. Bafuna ukusivala amehlo, basidonsele kwelinye ilangabi njalo....ilangabi elingumbuso lobudlova besitshabini. Uma singakwamukela lokhu, kusho ukuthi siyiziwula, iziphukuphuku ezingaziyo la ezivela khona. Kambe, lina mazinyane amaqhawe?? Amaqhawe afana labo phela oMagwegwe Fuyane, oMgandane Dlodlo, oMncumbatha Khumalo, oMbiko kaMasuku, oLotshe kaHlabangana, oGwabalanda Mathe, oManyewu Ndiweni, oMpini, oMkhaliphi, kanye lawo wonke amabutho esilo soHlanga, afana leNgubo, oNsukamini, oMahlogohlogo, njalo njalo. Ilukhuni lindaba, bakwethu. Obabamkhulu bakhuphuka le emva bebhikise amabombo eNyakatho ngoba babengeke bavumelane lobudlwangudlwangu bomfokaGumede. Kambe nisho ukuthi namhlanje kusafanele sivumelane njalo sicocobise ngaphansi kobudlwangudlwangu besitshabini?? Abokhokho bethu babedla ngamandla! Kwakuyizilo ezimehlw'khwezi. Yibo labo ababebulala inkunzi ngezandla zabo nje.....kungelamikhonto kumbe izagila. Yibo labo abawela uShangane, baguqa ngamadolo....belwela wena nami, izizukulwane zabo. Usapho lwabo.<p>Ngitshele ke wena Mthwakazi wanamhlanje, unaso na isibindi sokuwela uShangane, uguqe ngamadolo, ulwela izizukulwane zakho? Unawo na amandla okubulala inkunzi ngezakho izandla? Uma ungelampendulo kulokhu, kanti vele wena uthembeni? Uthembe usizi lwabetshabi, kumbe uthembe ubugwala bakho? Hhayi bo, zinsizwa nabodade, niyazi nonke nje ukuthi kudala kwakungenje. Akulankinga lapho. Pho, kengibuze, kwehlulani? <p>Ngiyema lapha!<br> <p><br>

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#4688 - 06/03/03 12:43 PM Re: 'Get rid of Mugabe'
Jazelindizayo Offline
Nduna
*

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 388
Loc: At large
Ndukuzibomvu- uMbiko kaMadlenya ombona ubuqhawe kayisuye owayefuna ukuhluthulela uLobhengula ubukhosi bakwabo ngenxa yenkethabetshabi? Ayisilo yini leliqhawe lase Jingeni elalisithi lona alisoke libuswe ngumntwana womthanyelo njalo oliSwazi? Ayisiyo yini iNduna kaZwangendaba eyayingafuni abantu abangayisowo maqhawe bakhulume kuMphakathi weSizwe?<br>The Chairman - it would appear that you had an interesting discussion with the gentlemen that you met in the pub. The reasons that they gave for not doing anything about the genocide in Matebeleland (during the genocide) are intriguing to say the least. That is they (the gentleman ) were too young and their parents did not know that the genocide was going on. This begs the very important and telling question - now that they are no longer young but grown up, and their parents are no longer in a blissful state of ignorance about the genocide in Matebeleland, what is it that they are prepared/willing to do about the genocide? What is it that they are willing to do to ensure that, that most heinous of crimes against humanity are never visited upon their land?<br>Is federalism the answer - I think not. Nor do I think that a totally independent state of Matebeleland is the answer. My view is simply that sovereignty is not the solution and would argue that it may be part of the problem.

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#4689 - 06/03/03 10:05 PM Re: 'Get rid of Mugabe'
Ndukuzibomvu Offline
Ngqwele
****

Registered: 01/04/03
Posts: 176
Loc: KwaGuqangamadolo
Mnumzane ohloniphekayo, Jazi:<p>Bengicela ungichasisele ngokucacileyo, mina vimbandlebe/sanqondo, ukuthi uhloseni ngombuzo wakho mayelana nomfokaMasuku. Ngiyojabula ukuwuphendula umbuzo wakho uma ngingakwazi.Hleze awungizwanga kahle ngaphambili: ukhona umehluko omkhulukazi phakathi kweqhawe nengilosi yasemazulwini. Mina angishongo lakanci mf'ethu ukuthi uMasuku wayengumuntu ongcwele. Engikushileyo yikuthi wabeniqhawe emaqhaweni. Wayeniqhawe phaqa. Okwendaba zobungcwele, hashi nginamahloni ngoba nje angazi....cishe wena unolwazi ngalez'ndaba.<p>Ngiqedile.<p>

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#4690 - 06/04/03 09:42 AM Re: 'Get rid of Mugabe'
Jazelindizayo Offline
Nduna
*

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 388
Loc: At large
Ndukuzibomvu-bengikakhulumi ngendaba zobungcwele loba ezobungilosi. Begnithi ngike ngibuze ngezenzo zika Mbiko kaMadlenya. Ngasekuqaleni ubuqhawe buka mfoka Madlenya bebungathandabuzwa ikahule mgemva kwezenzo zakhe lebutho lakhe iZwangandaba abakwenza uNdaleka oJingeni. Kunjalo, awukuboni kuyisici esikhulu esigcona igama lesithunzi sika Mbiko Masuku ukuthi wasuka wabangisa umntane Nkosi ubukhosi bakwabo waphosa wadabula isizwe? Awukuboni kulihlazo elikhulu ukuthi umfoka Masuku lona ubelenkethabetshabi yokukhangela isizwe ngehlangothi zalo- abantu weyebabona ubuSutshwanyani, uLobhengula wayembona ubuSwazidini abanye ebabona uTshabi! <br>Ngombono wami omncane bengibona angani izici zakhe ziyedlula ubuqhawe bakhe. Ngaleso sizatho uMbiko bengingeke ngambala phakathi kwamadoda obekade ulobe ngawo.

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#4691 - 06/04/03 06:30 PM Re: 'Get rid of Mugabe'
sthutha Offline
Nduna

Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 304
Into engingayizwisisi ngawe Jazi yikuthi ubhalela lapha usibonisa ubungcitshi bakho bokusebenzisa amabala ungatsho lutho loba inkundleni ungophikisana lalokho okungahambelani lawe kodwa ungasoze utsho lutho lwakho loba ukholisa ukukhuluma umi emgcweleni.Kusobala kimi nxa ngibala okubhalayo ukuthi awulakho ongakutsho ngaphandle koku dobha into ezincane ezitshiwo ngababhalayo uzenze umkatsho wenkulumo yakho.Maqede nje ungatsho lutho olwakho loba utshengise ukuthi imi ngaluphi.<br>Angazi ke ukuthi ubona engathi lawo majaha ayexoxa lo-chairman acabangani ngolokho okutshoyo.Mina ngedwa ungathi uyangiphica nxa usithi bona abetshabi bathi baza kwenzani ukuthi bangasibulali njalo.Obviously inengi labo lithi bamsulwa ngalolu daba betsho bempentsha ngoba lubathelela amahloni njalo lona luyethusa.Bayethuka njalo ukuthi thina abantu sesisenelisa ukuxoxa ngayo le indaba yokubulawa kwesizwe sakithi singenzanga lutho siletha imibono lokunanzelela ngokusizonda loku siseyisa kwabo.Ngalokho yikho behlala becabanga ukuthi kufuze basibuse loba nini loba enguwuphi wabo okhethwayo.Balegunya ngamacala aseqanjiwe,njalo babona engathi ngeke babe khona phakathi kwethu abangenelisa ukuqoqa isizwe sakithi ukuze sehlukane lamaswina ngenxa yabo abacabanga njengawe.<br>Inkatha yokuqoqa isizwe iqalile,abanjengawe Jazi abangela sure ukuthi bakhothe izihlama zamaswina kumbe bacatshe ezidwabeni zamanina abo angopasi asazi.Iqiniso yikuthi mina lababantu ngiyabazi,emazweni ohlangana labo khona bakukhulumisa ngaso is-mhewu-mhewu sabo lesi with the conviction that all people from Zim. speak their language.Angeke uzwe bezama olwethu ulumi WHY?Ligunya engike ngandulela kulo phambilini.Mina ke sona is-shwepes ngiyasizama kodwa ngeke uzwe ngisithi nkente.Majaha lezintombi zakwa Mthwakazi,lina bohlanga,kumele thina siqoqaneni and pursue our cause.Ukuthi sesisodwa siyakhethana gemihlobo kumbe ngani sizakutshiyela oJazi lokho as long sisebenzela isizwe sakithi. <br> Wona am-short sleeve vele ngeke amelane loku buswa ngowakithi YINDABA mani?

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#4692 - 06/05/03 05:09 PM Re: 'Get rid of Mugabe'
Jazelindizayo Offline
Nduna
*

Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 388
Loc: At large
Sthutha - ngiyabonga amazwi akho othe wangiphendula ngawo. Ngizazama ukuwaphendula loba nje ngimfitshane ekucabangeni lasenqondweni. Angimanga emgceleni mayelana lodaba lolu lokuthi ilizwe lidatshulwe phakathi uMthwakazi azibuse. Ngombono wami oncane angiboni ukuthi ukudatshulwa kwelizwe kuzasiza ngani ekuthuthukiseni impilo zabantu bakwaMthwakazi.Ungangitshela yini Sthutha ukuthi ukudatshulwa kwelizwe kuzalithuthukisa njani elakithi? I do not think that the creation of an independent state of Mthwakazi will not alleviate the yoke of poverty that sits upon the shoulders Mthwakazi. Our views (yours and mine's) differ as to the cause of this poverty in Matebeleland. You and others in this forum would have us believe that poverty is peculiar to Matebeleland, that underdevelopment is unique to Matebeleland and that all this is a result of a stupendous Shona consipiracy. On the other hand my views are that poverty and economic underdevelopment are not unique to Matebeleland. Our respective solutions to these problems therefore differ- unsurprisingly since we have different definitions of what the problem is. And because I do not subscribe to your views, assertions and petty prejudices does not make me umuntu okhotha "izihlama zamaswina kumbe bacatshe ezidwabeni zamanina abo angopasi" Quite frankly, Sthutha, given a choice of ukukhotha isihlama seswina lesihlama sakho I would choose neither. I will simply not be bounced nor duped into answering a bogus call to arms from people whose agenda is not at all clear to me. A call to arms that I do not believe will lead to a better tomorrow for my kith and kin.<br>Ngokucina ngizacela ukubuza Sthutha, kanti ngesikhathi sempi yenkululeko amaShona lamaNdebele babengabambananga yini ukuze balwe lesitha esasi ngondlebezikhanyilanga?<br>

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#4693 - 06/06/03 08:01 PM Re: 'Get rid of Mugabe'
sthutha Offline
Nduna

Registered: 05/08/03
Posts: 304
Yebo Jazi,<p>Into enhle nge NKUNDLA yikuthi yenza bonke abololimi olufanayo baluxoxe.<p>Owako Mthwakazi umhlobo okhuluma isi Ndebele uxoxa ngezinto eziqondane lathi.Wena nxa ungomunye wethu ngethemba usukwazi ukuthi wehlukana lathi njani njalo ngani.Otherwise thats it.<p>Abe tshabi akufuzange abakaMthwakazi babavotele kumbe bayekelelwe bewona in the name of unity.Kutsho ukuthi uBob angaphuma are the peole of Mthwakazi going to sit idle and wait for them to chose their next best to rule us?Does it mean the people of Mthwakazi should not say anything about such things.Amasotsha e Zimbabwe lamapholisa kumele ananzelelwe ngoba laba bantu they are bent on hurt.<br>Who trusts such leadership?Tsotsi leadership.Murderous,tribalists.We may not be obliged to submit to such authority.Ukuthi bona bazibusa njani akufuzange kube yi-problem yethu kodwa thina silowethu umbuso.<br>Wena Jazi uthini vele?<p><p> <p><br> <p><br>

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#4694 - 06/07/03 08:36 AM Re: 'Get rid of Mugabe'
Moyo Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 31
Ngiyalizwa madoda liya khuluma, njalo kubonakala lingabantu elilolwazi ngembali ye lizwe likaMthwakazi. Kodwa inye nje into elibulalayo, THE HATE WHICH HAS FOUND HOME IN YOUR HEARTS. <p>Liyabona singathi thina kufanele silwele amalungelo ethu ngenhliziyo ezibuhlu angiboni ukuthi kungasifikisa kuphi. <br> The problem in Zim is very intertwined it needs sharp and intelligent approach, failure to do that one can plunge that country into an untold calamity. Now in your discussions you are busy calling hate names you must be aware that Inkundla is an open mundane, anyone who wishes to read can do so at anyone given moment. Who knows may be some of the readers may like contributing in cash or kind, but with the kind of hate that is prevailing in some of us that alone can play a serious draw back. <p>Asizameni ukuza lohlelo olungasoke lusithathe eminye iminyaka elikhulu ukuthi sifinyelele izifiso zethu.

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