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#7726 - 08/08/05 08:22 AM Re: Mbeki,s quiet diplomacy onZimbabwe vs MDC
Ambuya Offline
Mafikizolo

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 19
Loc: Johannesburg
A lot has been said about Mbeki's stance towards Mugabe and the Zim crisis. The silent, huming sound of this chorus has developed into a droning national anthem by Zimbabweans who are now heaping all the blame for the state of things at home on Mbeki. I cannot help but grit my teeth everytime I read "Mbeki's quiet diplomacy" towards Zim! For the record, Mbeki has been consistent and very vocal about his policy towards Zim....let the Zimbabweans sort out their mess and come up with a Zimbabwean solution.SA can only be a facilitator and nothing more. This message has been driven home over and over again by Mbeki, but looks like most people fail to grasp it or their antenae simple chooses not to pick it.

I completely agree with Gay'gusu, and with his permission, would like to quote him thus,

"If I have to remain alive I must justify my existance by my ability to fight for dear life"

This, for me, is a profound,concise statement that defines what we as a people should be doing instead of expecting the Thabo Mbekis of this world to do something for us. They have their own problems in their respective countries. If we really want true freedom, then we should be prepared to fight for it with our dear lives.

The question I would like to ask those blaming Mbeki for not doing something about Mugabe is; what exactly should Mbeki be doing? It's not clear what the Mbeki bashers want done. Shouting at Bob will not work; somebody has already done that. In this category falls Tony Blair, George Bush and his Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice.The SA Defence Force cannot be expected to roll into Harare, guns blazing, to knock some sense into old Bob. So, I ask again, what exactly do people want Mbeki to do? Personally I feel Mbeki is following the best strategy available on Zim.It has worked in DRC, Ivory Coast and Burundi where he has been a peace broker. The reason for his relative success in these countries should not be lost.... that the concerned people of these countries DID something about their situation, be it slitting each other's throats, burning and looting or negotiations.

Coincidentally as I hammer away at my keyboard, Bob Marley's song, "Get up, stand up for your rights" is playing in the backgroung! That is what we need to be doing in order to bring some sanity to our beloved country. Let's stop being wimps and expect outsiders to sort our problems for us. If a demonstration is called by opposition parties or civil societies, let's pour onto the streets in numbers.Bring our dogs and cats if need be! When they arrest the organisers of these marches, let every single person que in front of the nearest police station and demand to be arrested in solidarity with arrested leaders. Let the lousy prison cells burst with political prisoners. If the police become brutal,as they are likely to be, let's turn the townships a no-go area for them Soweto-style, remember the necklacing of the cops and other instruments of oppression in SA's black townships in the "80s?

The point I'm trying to make is let's stop blaming other people and focus on ourselves as a people. Are we really doing enough for our freedom from the vile grip of the Mugabe regime? I don't think we are.

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#7727 - 08/08/05 09:57 AM Re: Mbeki,s quiet diplomacy onZimbabwe vs MDC
Dokotela Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1304
Loc: Emkhathini
Mbuya

I should quickly point out that the strategy of pouring the streets which you suggested is unthinkable, considering the simple fact that it has been tried numerous times by MDC and yielded nothing but teargas chokes from mgabes republic police. However is do not oppose the point of sanding for our rights. I practically do not expect Mbeki to stand for them either.

I thought i made it clear that Mbeki is benefiting from our crisis and enjoys it, therefore without asking him to stand for our rights, we should know that he is our enemy. He is prepared to see us perish on his enrichment, while painting feaces so that the International Community will not see that its ikaka and promoting the evil regime which has resulted in derailment of many of our plans.

Mbuya, by saying Mbeki is right in his actions, i should think you are affiliated to the regime, because your assertion validates the idea of sponsoring the regime.

Bheka sesisidla iMbuya ngothi, akube mgceke kuwe ukuthi siyakuphi sivela kuphi.

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#7728 - 08/10/05 04:29 PM Re: Mbeki,s quiet diplomacy onZimbabwe vs MDC
Maqhamehlezi Offline
Nduna
****

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 362
Loc: Emzini wezi-Nkonjane
It is naive and silly for some politicians to play with people's lives,Somewhere I hear choruses that zim is a sovereign state,it has to solve its problems BUT somewhere in history late 90s the new Southafrican army was seen jumping a border if not invading a sovereign state called Lesotho to intervene on that country's internal affairs although that SA army was embarrassed by the Lesotho army.
This Mgabe regime cries out loud telling countries not to intervene in zim's internal affairs, lo and behold Zim was seen interefering militarily in Moza and DRC's internal conflicts.

So people shouldnt fool us by the word INTERNAL AFFAIRS of a country thats taurean dung.Mgabe didnt intervene militarily in SA but was shouting out loud condemning apatheid thus it attracted attention,action from the world to pressure the apatheid regime to the negotiation table and to its demise.

Like wise we dont want SA to invade Zim even it it did I doubt its success judging from the disastrous campaign of Lesotho,anyway outside that,Mbeki should openly or publicly condemn Mugabe's regime oppression and insists on it to change and let it know that should there be no change,SA will seek and campaign for action to be taken against it through organisations like AU,UN etc,these actions must include isolating the regime,put travel restrictions to SA,cut or reduce the vital trade units that Zim rely to SA on should Mgabe continue ignoring the concerns of Zim people.

Mbeki should know that we dont want SA to come and Toyi-toyi In Mg*kla but only to say out in public the above -mentioned issues and other crimes that mgabe's regime is doing,such public stunts can give strength to the zim people to resist Mgabe knowing SA, Africa and rest of the world are behind them.

If Mbeki cant openly condemn the regime its better he stops even this so called quiet diplomacy.Mbeki says Zim people are the ones to solve their problem so if its the case why is he wasting his time intervening behind closed doors of quiet diplomacy.If a next door man is bashing his wife and you as neigbour intervenes by talking and calming him down or if you violently intervene by beating up the man and halt the wife bashing successfully then, both these actions are called interfering with your neighbours internal affairs only that one was peaceful and the other violent intervention, SO leaders like Mbeki should stop feeding us the OLD LIE that you cant intervene in a sovereign country's internal conflicts because you can.

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#7729 - 08/10/05 08:22 PM Re: Mbeki,s quiet diplomacy onZimbabwe vs MDC
nomakanjani Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 06/07/05
Posts: 105
Loc: Ng'khaya
Lest we forget, our ntshebe makhelwana has been wasting the milk behind his quiet diplomacy. Ugave i moustache (gundwani?) waze wagava lentshebe ebisini lwakomgonondo webuswiina. Nxa engalokotha nje avule owakhe, bazomemuka imbeba lezo abammumathise zona, so he surely ain't gonna say nothing.

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#7730 - 08/10/05 11:02 PM Re: Mbeki,s quiet diplomacy onZimbabwe vs MDC
SINATHAMAHEWU Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 02/27/02
Posts: 632
Loc: The Republic of Mthwakazi
What is Mbeki doing in the DRC, Sudan and other conflict spots in the north of Africa? Why is it necessary for him to interfere there in the internal affairs of those countries and then when it comes to Zimbabwe he refuses to do so.

Fair enough the solution will have to be from within that country.

But again why is Thabo busy protecting the regime of Mugabe from the continental and international condemnation of its human rights violations?

How quick Thabo and ANC forget? They were the last black african species to face the wrath of human rights violations by a white supremacist government. It should now dawn on them that human rights violations are not based on colour. Black, white, african, european, yellow and green peoples of this world can violate other peoples' rights with ease!

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#7731 - 08/11/05 01:31 AM Re: Mbeki,s quiet diplomacy onZimbabwe vs MDC
ILembe Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 05/01/05
Posts: 282
Loc: Tjolotjo
Zimbabwe had hit a detrimental dead-end when the two key cities were halted by an acute shortage of water and power, in simpler terms dead, Thabo acted swiftly by injecting US$300M. There by pledging his life long support to a fellow junta. and when he fools the empty heads he says let the zimbabwean problem be solved by zimbabweans, thus inane, he must let that zwezuru hamadrayas face reality and feast on his mess. Mbeki is gaining big time from the zimbabwean mess. as for the affected zimbabwean populace is either you join sudan,angola,somalia and the likes and engage in perpetual struggle or very blunt shut-up and dance to the mbira tunes. if one is sane enough you think the SA's cabinet will give free oil and power to zim jus on makesto grounds, using rate payers' hard cash to sustain a junta, this is politics let's be realistic uMbeki uyadla and kadle nxa kumele adle ethule, yingqondo. Mugabe fought for his office nxa utswangi eyifuna kayilwele ngumkhuba wase aflika lo. amadiplomacy lawo are as useless as diplomas themselves i-army okumele ibe very democratic iprotecthe amacivilians yazikhulumela ukuthi ayingeke isaluthe utswangi lanxa engawina kusegcekeni ukuthi either way yimpi and those aba affected ezim abayifuni impi mabathule bangakhali, ukuthi bazahlonyiswa ngubani zindaba zabo. kunjalo madoda kunzima.

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#7732 - 08/11/05 05:52 AM Re: Mbeki,s quiet diplomacy onZimbabwe vs MDC
Dokotela Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1304
Loc: Emkhathini
Maqha, i verily agree with you. I should emphasise ukuthi uMbeki, is our enemy, Othi engakubona udliwa yisilwane abuye afake itswayi, le tomato source.

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#7733 - 08/25/05 06:53 AM Re: Mbeki,s quiet diplomacy onZimbabwe vs MDC
Bhudaza Offline
Ndunankulu
*****

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 586
Loc: Byo, Mthwakazi
Well, it appears the rest of the world's megaphone diplomacy has failed by a larger magnitude. In fact abanye bathi it has reinforced Mugabe as a "black" hero.

Kuzothiwani ke?

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#7734 - 08/31/05 09:01 AM Re: Mbeki,s quiet diplomacy onZimbabwe vs MDC
jimbozi Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 108
Loc: uk
One can say that uMadiba was perfect but one can also say his only mistake was having Thabo Mbeki as his succesor. The aspect of quite diplomacy has no logic in it. Magida do not defend into esobala. What if the world had applied iquite diplomacy kaThiboz during apathierd days!?. do you think he would be ruling emzansi. Thabo is useless and ineffective. Talking about uTswangirayi is a worst of time because he does not have any direction. He is just a decibell who managed to make noise over the food riots and a little bit of bargaining for a few workers. Thiboz and tshabinkulu are like the mafia. Apply logic to theory bantu bakithi. Why do you think tshabinkulu destroyed idlu zabantu?. Because he is conving with uThiboz. How one would ask?. Remember the world cup will be in South Africa in 2010. Do you think emzansi will be in a position to accommodate all the world cup convoy?, hell no. Where then will they go, tshabinkulu's zimbabwe. Laba bantu are fooling around ngemncabango yabantu. Do you think Thiboz would have undermined his country's chances of hosting a world cup event by involing his country in the internal strife yezwen?.no.and what is he doing to [illigal] people from home?. Packing them back to kompentsho. Mind you they say kala kids so he does not give a thought of tommorrow. As for the MDC, ey kunzima. They based their luck on the immitions of the people at the time and threw themselves into the political field without having a backup plan in case they had failled on plan a.Thabo and his Mzansi have watched and kept their unshamed thoughts to themselves while the long suffering people from zimbabwe continue to have an old ruthless killer as their leader. All this in the name of African solidarity. Give me a break.

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