Mtshede,
It would be an act of folly and downright stupid for me to try and add to what you have said. UYINDODA EMADODENI and a massive credit to the white members of the human race.
Mina vele ngakukhiphela ingwane kudala wethu. I respect your views!!!
Given your stoic adherence to your views in this forum over a long period of time I have no reason not to take at face value everything you say. Initially I thought you were just one of the guys about town taking everybody for a walk. However I now do not believe that it is naive to believe everything you say. If you are faking it all, then you have got me, hook line and sinker. But I believe that not everybody is a Ben Munari and that giving people like you the benfit of doubt equates me to the naive Moggie.
UYINDODA MARCUS MTSHEDE NDEBELE ELIMHLOPHE!!

uThandindaba, mfowethu I don't think I can convey the sense of great joy I feel in reading what you have written.

From an overflowing heart I have to say thank you very much indeed.

Thank you very, very, very much indeed.

SINATHAMAHEWU,
ZWANGENDABA,

Ngenhlonipho enkulu bomnumzana, once again I beg to differ strongly with your views. Infact I think the whole thing is beggining to sound like a scratched record because while you seek to make apologies for your white heroes at the expense of your forefathers you fail to provide concrete examples of the blackmans alleged inferiority.
The reason I respect the contrubutions of MTSHEDE a whiteman is that he is a gentleman who backs his arguments with solid facts and historical data.
Infact, them such as you, are a good example of what colonialists sought to archieve in Africa. A generation of self-negating individuals with a confused view of the harsh realities of the world.I say so because all my efforts to convince you otherwise are akin to trying to crack a boulder with a mallet hammer. Its an excercise in futility.
You see, one of the major colonialist efforts was to colonise the minds of the people. According to S. Biko the late, this was meant for us to believe that we were nobodies who had to rely on the white benefactor in order to survive.This is the mentality we see with the useless followers of Morgan T. Instead of mobilising opinion at home they are busy following the tune of their white puppet masters by picking a fight with practically every SADCC country. If you insult Mbeki then how do you expert him to spend his country's capital in removing ****a in your favour?
Madoda its time to open your minds!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bafowethu.

Mnto, Akungivumele:

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The essence of our analysis should be: who is behind this black poverty, crime, illiteracy and juvenile delinquency? I say: abelungu. Ondlebezikhanyilanga bathatha abensundu babenza iziwuzawuza, babalahlela ebubheni. Abo-Harlem laba are examples of what has been known in Africa as 'townships' of humanity. Thina eMsawawa sithi kuseKasi noma eLokishini. Kuyaziwa ukuthi abelungu bathi deliberately isolate ibala elimpisholo by bundling them into overpopulated small straps of land, with very limited resources.
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Baba, it has since been 60 years since the CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENTS emancipated the Black Community in the USA. Lo baba u Bill COSBY went to great lengths ekhuza abensundu about their behaviour lapha e USA. He is supported very much by a group called MOTHERS AGAINST CRIME. He is blaming our people for destroying the gains of the Luthers's and Malcolm X's of upgrading the dignity of the black man. Sihleli labo abafowethu laba. Asibagconi ngitsho lakancane. Sithi asinanzeleleni indlela esihamba ngazo, singasoli abelumbi ngento esizenzela yona.


Ngivumele njalo baba>>>>>
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In KwaMashu (Durban), intsha lacks a vision ngasesikoleni. Why? Ngoba akekho abangathi look up to yena as a symbol of academic excellence. All they see is their 16 yr old buddies quitting school and turning to drugs and crime. KwaMashu akuphephile neze, ngani ngoba crime is a way of life. The more unsafe it is, the more youths find it attractive to leave school and turn to crime. Amantombazane asemancane laphaya KwaMashu angenwe umqondo wokukhwahla amadoda kuphela. Once uqonywa KwaMashu, azi ukuthi usuphenduke inkukhu yokucuthwa ngamantomabazane. Kubucayi. Yingakho nje umfokaMlaba, uXimba wacula ethi: 'Akuzifebe le KwaMashu, yinkindlane!' Buza mina, ngikubona ngamehlo.
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LAPHA uyitshaya ekhanda baba. This is where my argument is. Bakuphi abadala??? Likuphi ijele lesizwe??? Uma singena jele, siyampumputheka sigcwale izwe lonke. Akula mlumbi obambe lababantwana abentsha.

I THINK I WAS MIS-UNDERSTOOD EKUQALENI: NGITHE MINA OKHOKHO BETHU BEHLULWA NGENXA YOKUTHI THEY WERE BACKWARD TECHNOLOGICALY. THINA KUYINI OKUSEHLULAYO UKUTHI SIYE ESIKOLO??? KANGIKHONZI KHIWA LOBA BANI. NGIKHULUMA INTO ENGIYIBONAYO.

Li Zwangendaba.

Bafowethu.

THANDINDABA. Thank you for your view, however, it does not by an inkling reflect what I meant.


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Infact I think the whole thing is beggining to sound like a scratched record because while you seek to make apologies for your white heroes at the expense of your forefathers you fail to provide concrete examples of the blackmans alleged inferiority.
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You sound like an angry man. Read my contributions again.

I repeat, " OUR ANCESTORS WERE DEFEATED BY THE WHITE PEOPLE JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE TECHNOLOGICALY BACKWARD AT THAT TIME. UNGALA LOKHU UYABE USAZI UKUTHI ULAMANGA."

I repeat, " NOW THAT THE OPPORTUNITIES ARE OPEN FOR OUR GENERATIONS TO GO TO SCHOOL, WHAT EXCUSE DO WE HAVE FOR CONTINUALY BLAMMING ABELUMBI??? IS IT NOT WISE FOR US TO GO TO SCHOOL AND ENCOURAGE EACH OTHER TO DO SO???

I repeat, "LET US NOT DANCE INGOMA KA M-G-K-L-A AT THE EXPENCE OF TIME. ABANYE BAYIGIDA NGOKUKHUTHALA, ABANYE BAYIGIDA BENGANANZELELI, ABANYE BAMTSHAYELA IZANDLA. I AM NOT HERO WORSHIPING THE WHITE MAN, I AM SIMPLY SAYING, YOU ARE BUSY USING HIM AS THE DATUM OF CIVILIZATION BECAUSE INGQONDO ZAKHO SEZIPHELELE. THIS IS TANTAMOUNT TO TAKING US BACK TO THE IRON AGE, BASEHLULE NJALO???"

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The reason I respect the contrubutions of MTSHEDE a whiteman is that he is a gentleman who backs his arguments with solid facts and historical data.
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Angisoze ngikuphendule, ngizacela uzidingele imibhalo yami ungitshele ukuthi kayila Data na??? Kumbe njalo ubona ngeso elilodwa.

Quote:_______________________________________________________________________
Infact, them such as you, are a good example of what colonialists sought to archieve in Africa. A generation of self-negating individuals with a confused view of the harsh realities of the world.I say so because all my efforts to convince you otherwise are akin to trying to crack a boulder with a mallet hammer. Its an excercise in futility.
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Do not convince me with a confused analysis of the situation. BEKA OWAKHO UMBONO. LAMI NGIZABEKA OWAMI. That way we will see what is practicable, ukuthi sibe silokhu sikhala, kumbe silalele okutshiwo ngubaba u Bill Cosby, who by the way is not a White man, besesikuhlanganisa konke sikhetheni ukuzithuthukisa.

IF THE COLONIALIST MADE ME TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY MY OWN SHORTFALLS, THEN HE DID A GOOD JOB. BUT IF HE MADE ME TO HAVE THE DEPENDENCY SYNDROME, THEN IT WAS ALSO A GOOD JOB, BUT THIS TIME FOR HIS BENEFIT. NGIZAKUBE NGILOKHU NGIKHALA, YENA ESIDLA.

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Madoda its time to open your minds!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Zwangendaba says, "MADODA, IT IS TIME FOR ALL OF US TO OPEN OUR MINDS."

Li Zwangendaba.

ZWANGENDABA,
I rest my case. Asisoze safa savumelana because we are operating from opposite poles.
However okusobala yikuthi we both agree that our situation is bad and someone has to take the blame for it.
Furthermore we both seem to have the interests of our people and their development at heart. To me that is enough. I will work from my corner and you can work from yours so long the outcome is the emancipation of our lot.
Good Luck!!!!!!!!!

"Until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permenantly discredited and abonded. Until there are no longer first class and second class citizens of any nation, and until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race.
Until the day when the colour of a man's skin is of nomore significancy than the colour of his eyes.
Until that day the dream of lasting peace, world citizenship, rule of international morality will but remain but a flitting illusion remaining to be persued but never attained, i say war."" By The Emperor, the Conquering lion of the tribe of Judah and the words immortalised by Robert Nesta Marley

Being black and Pan African to the core, I believe ukuthi as much as we have evil black people, we also have evil white people. Putting all people of a particular skin colour under one umbrella is a bit on the other side of being honest with oneself. Anyway white people at this juncture are the least of our problems, I just don't see how their behaviour can be of any significant difference to our lives, so why bother about them. I don't even understand why the subject is much as dignified by being debated so passionately. Thina nje abakwaMthwakazi siyakwazi ukuthi since 1980, half of inkinga zethu lie in that damned city of Harare, and half lie within ourselves. Unless we stop fingerpointing and got of our butts and really seeked solution we'll be right where we are right now till the cows come home. uNdumsha kaNgwenya.

Thandindaba

Silokhe sisehluka kancane hatshi kakhulu and your above analysis, I am sorry to say that it lacks a balanced view and would seem to have been overwhelmed by anger rather than sober analysis devoid of emotion.

Mina ngithi, there is no way we can continue to blame the whites even for our own inadequacies and poor governance!

Mugabe's poor human rights can not be blamed on the whites!

Mugabe's butchering of Mthwakazi can ot be blamed on whites. Mugabe had the option not to do it but he did it! Try and tell me that I should blame the whitemen for this, I will refuse. Some might have had a hand in it but Mugabe still had a choice not to be used by them to kill.

On all the issues of globalisation and the wars that are being fought, I agree with you in toto.

Lapha esehlukana khona yilapho where we begin to accuse whites for all of our problems and never own up to our own shortcomings like Mugabe does!

Mugabe refuses to accept that he has damaged the Zim economy probably beyond repair!

It is all the whiteman's fault and he has done nothing wrong!

ngeke ngivumelane lalokho Thandindaba!

SINATHAMAHEWU,
Thumela phela iqhaga lamahewu lawo ungawanathi wedwa!
Anywhere back to the point, if you have been following my posts you will realise I never set out to eulogise ****a or sing praises to him.My main aim has been to point to conditions in internationasl relations that are the breeding grounds for ****as and their like. I will state again for the record that it is the exploitation of the poor people of the South by the rich advanced Northern countries that is PRIMARILY responsible for our misery. Bush knows it amd recently at the labour party conference BONO so tellingly reminded Tony B. and the Labour party. Countless Human Rights groups for whatever agenda acknowledge this. Fair Trade campaigners always try to highlight this.
The whole world knows it. We are at the mercy of Western Financial Institutions and Trade agreements which have been devised without our input; Trade agreements that heavily favour their consumer societies at our expense. The tragedy of the whole thing is that in the last thirty years The Western societies have all become welfare states and to sustain it all they need us to remain where we are so as to feed their consumerism.
This is something more sinister and much much much bigger than ****a. When you rile against ****a you remind me of my cousins. Their father waye liwonki esebenza ukugebha emgwaqweni. So when he failed to by them things for X-mass that others enjoyed they would scream and say he was stingy. They did not realise that it was his employers who were stingy. By the same token for all his evil deeds, ****a and indeed the rest of African leaders remain minor players in the game of the distrubution of the Planet's resources. Until we re-visit institutions like the WTO with the view of leveling the playing field we can mourn and grown but archieve nothing.