NEPAD G8 Conferance

Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

NEPAD G8 Conferance - 06/27/02 09:13 PM

OMbeki as we have long said are big jokers. They were really looking for guns to oppress. Nanko, the main thing they got was a boost for African military. uMbeki loObasanjo yiziphukuphuku njengoMgabe, they still trust umlungu. Shame. A dirty conferance and bad news for Africa.<p> <A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_2069000/2069632.stm" TARGET=_blank>http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_2069000/2069632.stm</A> <p>Do not look up to these fools. They are toys they do not want good for Africa.
Posted by: Mhlewedwan

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 06/28/02 02:00 AM

U Mbeki is weird you know. By day, he is the white man's friend, by night he shakes Mgabe's hand for dissing them. Now, explain Obasanjo's mission bakithi. Are tehy not the same people (him and Thabo) that sat for that Carribean Union and voted that Mgabe should run a fresh set of elections? Kodwa u Obasanjo ayisuye na who was the middle man during the conversation ka Mgabe lo Tswangirayi? I am beginning to smell a rat. These 3 guys (Bob, Thabo and Obasanjo) are partners in crime. Bob stands out the ridiculuos guy in white community and then these guys agree with him, but dont come clean. So, when white assistance comes to their countries, Mgabe benefits by night too. See how he even bull dozed Thabo into keeping the Zim illegal immigrants in South, did Thabo resist? Something is smelling politically fishy.
Posted by: iBoyz yezkweyeni

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 06/28/02 08:17 AM

The so-called izazi(wise men)zaseAfrika baye Canada bayasithathela ubugqili. Abantabethu emakhaya wethu sebe botshiwe, sebeya khulela ekuhluphekeni.<p>NEPAD is dangerously flawed and the West knows it but what do they care as long as Afrika is kept in perpetual poverty.<p>What we need is NESPAD(New Social&Political Order for African Development) to present to Mbeki and co. Ideas anyone?<p><br>
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/04/02 04:13 PM

Kuthiwa uMbeki wesaba uMgabe....
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/04/02 05:19 PM

Sizwile, ngamanga lawo. Bangamalema bonke, ilema lizothi omunye wakhe ulilema njani.
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/04/02 08:12 PM

Kusetshenziswa iPsychology phela lapha...angithi umuntu angakutshela ukuthi wesaba enye indoda lawe uzazama ukumtshengisela ukuthi kawesabi ndoda ngoba lawe uyindoda emadodeni!
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/05/02 08:22 PM

kodwa uMbeki uzithulele. Yena yfun'ukuthi amaIsrael yinyamazangya, kodwa lapha e'Aflica afuni ukuthi uMgabe is Wrong, ngoba bayafana. UMbeki ukhulela emangeni, uMgabe ngamanga kuphela. uMbeki angayesaba uMgabe, No. Kodwa, angakhuluma, uMgabe uzothi izithutha egoli sithathe umhlabathi, sokungamanyala. uMbeki yena ufuna amanga aclean. Hatshi amanga ahlangangiswe lamanyala. note, bonke banjalo. Bafuna amanga okhuluma uhlazi phanzi which really mean nothing. NjengoNkomo. Kade efuna ukuxhoxha amanga ilanga lonke. Hatshi ukuthi uhlanganise amanga lamanyala, uMgabe uhlanganisa amanga lamanyala, buza uNkomo. uMbeki uzibona njengo'muntu ophucukileyo. uMgaba alandaba. There is the diffarance. uMgaba will end up saying oMbeki ngabafana bamakhiwa, which is true, but then so is Mugabe.
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/06/02 07:30 AM

<br> Uyazi ngike ngakucabanga lokhu okutshoyo ngoMbeki. Ungabuza abantu abnebgi ngoMbeki uzezwa besithi "A kangimqondi!". Indoda uyakwazi ukuvika lo. He fits into Mgabe's plot as well as eyamakhiwa...iRand igainile recently!
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/06/02 06:07 PM

Ngumkhokheli onjani lo. Exactley like uMgabe, kabatsho lutho, okwabo yikuthi izinto azilungi because of thgis and that. Amanga, izinto azilungi because of bona. Yibo oPopayi. Even if uyavika, izenzo asikho because abayazi into abayiyenzayo.
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/07/02 01:56 PM

Ubuze ukuthi "ngumkhokheli onjani lo?" Impendulo yikuthi yiPolitician. Bayasidlala laba abantu. Abanye bathi politics is a dirty game, abanye bathi yi Politricks....baduba ngokuthi kabalama Guidelines okubusa afana laweziNkosi zasemandulo. Amaguideline okubusa kwamaAfrika yiDictatorship. I hope Mbeki follows Mandela's footstep and does not surpass two terms.
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/07/02 08:13 PM

Sizobona, angathi akayenzi umsebenzi wakhe. You know thesse people. uMbeki kodwa sicabanga ukuthi afuni amanyala, sizobona ngezenzo. Ukuthi amapolitician eAfrica have no idea it is sad to admit it, they blow with the wind, bayathengwa, bayathengisa, as you said, akulamaguidelines, no one knows what to expect.
Posted by: Mhlewedwan

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/08/02 12:49 AM

<br> <p> <br> extacted from: South bend Tribune; USA<p><br>July 5, 2002 <p><br>Mugabe's land policy will destroy Zimbabwe<br>EDITORIAL <p>Robert Mugabe, president of Zimbabwe, has sped up implementation of a "fast track" plan to return white-owned farmland to black Zimbabweans, with no compensation to the white farmers, in order to bolster support for his illegitimate rule. And he isn't about to let a little thing like throwing his country into a state of famine stand in the way.<p>President Bush, along with leaders of the European Union and other African nations, must convince Mugabe to back down from his plan. And they must act quickly. The United States should seek help in persuading Mugabe from South Africa President Thabo Mbeki and the 54 members of the Commonwealth of Britain and its former colonies, which includes 19 African nations.<p>The white farmers, who cultivate a third of Zimbabwe's arable land, including its productive commercial farms, have been ordered by Mugabe to stop working immediately and to vacate their farms by Aug. 8. If they comply -- which, under Mugabe's order, they must do or be imprisoned for two years -- they will be leaving a winter wheat crop in the fields to rot.<p>At best, half of Zimbabwe's 12.5 million people will need food assistance this year. Should Mugabe proceed with his plan, that number could grow much larger.<p>The irony is that Zimbabwe once produced enough food to feed its own people and those of several neighboring nations. Had Mugabe allowed a land restoration plan devised by the British Commonwealth to proceed, the country's farms would be acquired from white farmers for a fair price and distributed to black Zimbabweans, without disrupting productivity.<p>The plan might have been left on course had it not been for the startling parliamentary election in 2000, four years into Mugabe's previous six-year presidential term. For the first time since his country's independence from Great Britain in 1980, Mugabe faced credible opposition.<p>The Movement for Democratic Change, headed by Morgan Tsvangirai, won 57 Parliament seats, compared to 62 from Mugabe's party. The previous Parliament had only three opposition members. Furthermore, Tsvangirai vowed he would oppose Mugabe in the next presidential election.<p>Mugabe made sure the MDC would have no real power by naming 30 more members to the Parliament. But the opposition surge was not to be taken lightly. Shortly after the parliamentary election, Mugabe announced his "fast track" land redistribution plan. Three thousand white-owned farms would be given to 500,000 landless black families.<p>As 2002 approached, Mugabe set out in earnest to steal the presidential election through intimidation, slander and other treacheries. Still, challenger Tsvangirai polled 42 percent of the votes in March.<p>Mugabe would leave Zimbabwe in ruins in order to stay in power. If farming operations are halted, in addition to food shortages, 250,000 farm workers will lose their jobs.<p>After the stolen election in March, in a misguided show of African unity several neighboring nations, including South Africa, offered Mugabe congratulations and praise for his victory. It is important that they retract their words.<p>South Africa President Thabo Mbeki's influence could go far towards convincing Zimbabwe's 78-year-old president of 22 years that the farmland transfer scheme must be halted. On the heels of that success, leaders of Africa's democracies -- with the support of the United States, the nations of the British Commonwealth, and the European Union -- should make Mugabe understand that it is time to give up his power in exchange for a "golden parachute."<p>The plight of Africa's hungry people must not be ignored. Last week's summit in Canada, attended by eight industrialized democracies and the leaders of several progressive African nations, set the stage for an ultimatum, to be delivered to Mugabe by his friends. The United States should press the issue immediately, before the Zimbabwean people pay a very high price for their president's addiction to power.<br> <br> <br>
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 10:42 PM

I would not be the first one to complain about your typing errors Bhekuzulu and I think you need to revise your posts before submitting because I don't think I understand what you are saying in your first sentence..........
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 01:21 PM

The reasons singled out for the would be failure of NEPAD by many, remain unconvincing, picked out of context and exegerated out of focus at least to me!<p>NEPAD seems to be focusing on what Africans can do for themselves not what Western Countries can do for Africa in order for development to take root in our motherland!<p>This is a good start. There is a focus on the observation of democratic ideals and principles as a foundation for development to take place.<p>The only people who will make sure and who are working hard to make NEPAD fail are the likes of Gaddafi and the likes of Mugabe and the critics who have relentlesly presented NEPAD as a bad idea without offering concrete solution themselves!<p>I congradulate Thabo Mbeki for coming up with this idea. The idea will fail not becoz it is a bad idea but becoz the club of African dictactors are already shooting it down.<p>Emphasizing good governance and the upholding of the human rights in the continent as some of the major prerequisites for economic development is not a bad idea at all!<p>
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 02:40 PM

NEPAD will fauil not because it is a good or bad idea but because it refuses to address the real issues of why Africa is poor. Africa is poor because these are artificial states and nations. They where created for the white man but blacks have said and agreed that the white man did a good job for them and accepted these states. Hence we have had Biafra's Eritrea's Genocide in Rwanda, Genocide in Zimbabwe, Civil war in Chad, Ethnic violence in Kenya, Xhosa's geting the best picks in South Africa. When that is addresses, maybe, maybe then NEPAD can work. Until then it is a dream of those who deny reality, those who seek to say A is B, when A can only be A. C can not be G and at the same time C. A Ndebele can not be a Ndebele and at the same time Shona. That is contradicting all sense of logic. Which of course these people do not have. One can not be an Ibo and a Hausa at the same time . That is what people like Mbeki are trying to solidify. They are trying to fullfil the whitemans wish that all blacks are the same, hence identity less except for that that is created by the whiteman. Hence we have christmas as a holiday, but any African holiday partaining to that culture will be viewed as tribalism, but Easter is not viewed as wrong by an identiless people. China, Japan, Indonesia, there is no Easter, it belongs to Europeans. Inxwala is it there in Europe. Check your facts, that is why NEPAD will fail. Good idea, bad idea, it is just an excersize of going threw the motions.<p>Cde Potshoza, in the first sentance I am saying he must not say he has not done his work.
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 03:08 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Outgoing OAU chairman, Levy Mwanawasa defended the decision not to invite Madagascar's leader, Marc Ravalomanana, <p>After a seven month power struggle, he has been recognised as head of state by the US, France, Germany and other western nations. <br> <br>"The decision ... is a matter of principle and is a reaffirmation of our commitment to the ideals of governance that we, as the OAU, have made," said Mr Mwanawasa. <p>He pointed to recent elections in Sierra Leone, Mali, Lesotho and even Robert Mugabe's controversial re-election in Zimbabwe as success stories. <p>Such statements have revived criticisms in some quarters that the organisation remains little more than an old dictators club.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p> The AU has set off on a footing of double standards. Or should I say their ideals of governance appear to be different from those of the West. If that's is the case then the future is bleak for Nepad. <p>Also there is a lot of emphasis on trade. Are we to anticipate any changes from the west in the way they trade with Africa. We know they will deal with dictators by night!
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 03:35 PM

I for one do not believe that the ideals of NEPAD(as I have understood them)are peripherary to the solving of the equation of poverty in Africa. The reality is that the NEPAD ideals are central to the solving of the root causes of poverty in Africa.<p>Bad governance in the form of dictactorships and tribal wars have driven Africa down the slippery slope of poverty. The physical geographical explanations espoused and expanded in this situation do not solve the equation.<p>We as Africans need to live with the fact that those bounderies are now existent and accept and appreciate the concept of difference within those colonialist defined geographical areas. A MuShona person has to accept that I am a Ndebele existing in Zimbabwe with the full rights that I deserve and not treat me as a second class citizen. A Mushona person has to accept that I am different from him and that I have the full rights to exercise my rights to govern myself the way I see fit and be able to practice my culture without any impediment. A Mushona person has to accept that I have to exploit resources within my geographical sphere of influence for the betterment of my peoples without him being an impediment to this. That will be democracy! If any leader can appreciate that, then it will be good governance not bad governance!<p>They should not abuse me and exploit me just becoz I am a Ndebele and seek to always paralyse my independent spirit of governing myself!<p>In the same manner,a Ndebele should do like wise. But there should also exist a spirit of co-existence in that we can trade together and uplift the lives of our peoples!<p>They should not view governing as their birth right, but that we can also govern ourselves!<p>That is what I view as good governance and being democratic!<p>They should not kill me and my people becoz we differ on opinions and becoz I am Ndebele and do think differently from them.<p>To me Bheki NEPAD seems to be an advocate of this and that is what I view as democracy!<p>We as Africans seem to enjoy being pessimistic about anything that we try to do. When the African Union was formed we got the same pessimistic views!<p>But I have observed that the AU ideals are very much the NEPAD ideals, to the extent that states have committed themselves to intervene in a country where human rights abuses are taking place. <p>When those that decide to commit genocide do so in their own countries, they will be confronted with the intervention of the AU.<p>To me this is not a bad idea at all. If these guys commit themselves in resources then this should happen.<p>If allowed to govern ourselves in the true spirit of democracy, then it would not be difficult for us to celebrate Inxwala. We can not blame the whites for not celebrating Inxwala. We have ourselves to blame! We have to attack day in and day out this twisted sense that all our problems are due to a white men.<p>I do not understand how a whitemen is preventing us from celebrating Inxwala. It is a blackman who is making it difficult for us to appreciate our culture by being dictactorial and telling us what to do!<p>I might be wrong but this is how I see it!<p>
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 04:52 PM

DEmocracy is majority rules. As long as you fool yourself and call yourself both A and B at the same time, you as a Ndebele will get nowhere, Shona's do not have to accept anything just as you do not. Trade, trade happans between to seperate countries, Zimbabwe is a creation of Rhodes, NEPAD does not in any way seek to correct that. Just as Nigeria, Uganda are creations of LUggard. NEPADF is just a repackaging of the old philosophy of Nkrumah, Garvey, Amin,MUgabe that is all. There is nothing to respect within it. Only when logic is used will Africa get anyway. You can not force a union, no matter how much day dreaming. A is A, then problems are easily fixed. A car can not be a car and a bus at the same time, worse a train at the same time. You can not belong to two nations. It is either you are a Ndebele or you are a ZImbabwean. Which are you? that is what you must ask yourself, what are you? You can not be an English and a Polish at the same time. NEPAD does not seek in anyway to address fundamental issues of why Africa is poor and in disgrace. There are no guidelines for doing anything in Africa. It is a mess, Address the core issues. NEPAD does not, because the implications of the core issues are to huge. Ndebele or Zimbabwean, you can not be both. Not in your heart, not in reality. NEPAD is nonsense
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 05:04 PM

And one would observe that this Zambian Mwanamase(whatever his name is) declared his support for Gaddafi. Therefore his unintelligent ideas that he put forward can only be understood in context of his political leanings. He is a Gaddafi imposter in the making!<p>One who supports a dictactor is a dictactor. Such individuals' views can not represent the true spirit of NEPAD. He is there to facilitate the disintegration of NEPAD! Mugabe and Gaddafi do not want to see NEPAD a success. They are there to make every effort to see fail. They have some idiots following their evil and dictactorship ways!<p>This guy is Gaddafi's robbot as well as Mugabe's. We are well informed that ZPF played a significant role in his election as a President of Zambia.<p>This is a Zambian Mugabe or Lybian Gaddafi in the making.<p>NEPAD can not be judged on the statements of this misguided fellow who is still trying to root himself in the Zambian Presidency and who is still a stooge of Mugabe and Gaddafi!<p>He has no independence of thought! He is part and parcel of the club of dictactors!<p>He is a cheat anywhere and what can we expect from him!<p>I have to differ with you there my fellow tribesmen!
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 05:43 PM

Bheki my brother I am a true Ndebele and I am very much equiped in my mother tongue and culture and I am proud of it. NgiliNdebele okweqiniso. I for one believe that Ndebeles can have a state of their own, infact should be allowed to have a state of their own and govern themselves and not be the always governed by others. However such a state should exist in a federal type of government, where powers are devolved to states to deal with their problems as they see fit. We are the only ones to identify our own needs of development and we are the only ones to prioritise our needs, not a foreign person. With good governance, we can be allowed to take care of our fate and destiny. That is what democracy is all about, to allow people to be in charge of their own destiny and govern themselves! To allow people to be in charge of their resources and culture and not be dictacted to by an external foreign force within Africa or outside Africa. No! No! No!<p>I believe these are ideals of NEPAD of good governance and the observance of human rights! Ndebeles have the right to have their own Radio Station to focus on their culture and promote it. But who gives or disallows the permit for that! It is ZPF, a Shona dominated party that practices Shona Hegemony!<p>If they can not allow us to have a radio of our own how can they allow us to celebrate the Inxwala or the Mzilikazi Day/Lobengula Day or the Joshua Mqabuko Day?<p>These are fundamental questions I put forward to you to quiz your intellectual pool of reasoning!<p>Is it the whitemen who is denying us the licence to have a Radio station so we can tune on to the very needs of our community?<p>No! No! No! No!<p>It is another blackman, who wants to see us not develop. This is bad governance and not the upholding of our human rights by the other tribal party!<br>
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 07:15 PM

Mfowethu, I agrea, Kodwa do you not see that as the problem of NEPAD, that it can not address fundamental issues of Fedralism in Africa. Otherwise how will it work when half of Africa is not free. <p>We should be having a radio station to address needs of our community, kodwa why if we are Zimbabwean,. Should we not listen to what other Zimbabweans are listening to. But if we are Ndebele, we need our own stration to address needs of our nation. <p>Msilawobe you are defining what you think the spirit of NEPAD should be. That is wishfull thinking. Look at the facts, who was at the AU opening, Mugabe, Gaddafi, and a whole lot of others who are the course of Africas downfall. That is its spirit, the fact is that is what it incorporates. Wishfull thinking and facts usually conflict. I too wish NEPAD was something to save Africa, unfortunately, at night the Mugabes Maluzis, Nujomas are part and parcel of itincluding Mwanamase. There you are, from the facts on the ground, judge for yourself.
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 07:31 PM

The problem of course is that these leaders will be selective of what is bad and what is good governance as we have already seen with the Marc Ravalomanana fiasco. The ideals of good governance of Mwanawasa differ from those of Bush, unless I have got the wrong end of the stick. Some initiatives are good on paper and that's as far as it goes.<p>Whilest the OAU is largely given due credits for its role in the liberation of other African countries, there was a somewhat similar "partnership" with countries from the East which saw these countries entrench their socialist cum communist ideologies in African states and achieving useful battlegrounds against the West, whilest suppying useful arms and training the African liberation movements. A remnant of that remains and can be seen in Mugabe's anti-western philosophy today.<p>Anything with Gadaffi as principal proponent is bound to have anti-western rhetoric. This where Mbeki's enigmatic character will either prove to be useful or completely disasterous. Sizabona!
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 08:09 PM

This the reason why I am saying that Gaddafi and Mugabe are there to see NEPAD fail. The Zambian guy is acting as a pooddle to these megalomaniacs!<p>Yes these are the guys who will destroy NEPAD and they have started!
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 08:21 PM

Whilest we have more than our fair share of dictators, it would be folly as well to have good governance principles based on western ideals! Thabo Mbeki thinks he is the missing link...
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 08:27 PM

Mina I do not see what you mean destroy NEPAD. Economically speaking, for NEPAD do be a success very little has to be done. One does not need to go to Canada to say what needs to be done. But that needing doing will not be done because it means freedom, nobody in Africa wants to give anybody freedom. It means no more controlling people. Mugabe is actually happy when people are starving, this way he gets to become popular by giving them food. Africans are happy when there are illiterates, that means they can think everything for them. When peasants are running around instead of ploughing their fields, surely a normal People loving person will not be haoppy, but ZANU is happy. Amin was happy chasing people up and down. God knows why these people are happy when their own people are suffering.<p>For NEPAD to work that all must end. Even Mbeki will not be happy because that will mean no more big programmes for him. Sell assets to citizens. No more state monopolies. Tellecommunications there must be competition, airlines there must be competition, electricity there must be competition. In Canada due to competition for example, with 25c one can talk the whole day on a pay phone until one puts the phone down. That is the result of competition. Phone bills are 22 dollars a month. No matter how many local calls you make. You can stay on the phone the whole day. That is competition. To fly to London is 200 dollars return, that is competition. <p>When privatizing state assets, sell them to citizens, do not think a westerner can do it better. Mbeki believes westerners are better. South African Airways was sold to Swiss Air believing whites run things properly. Swiss Air is now broke with their "expertise", it is just that Mbeki thinks these are Gods. In England privatization of assets went to British citizens who then as individual shareholders could sell to foreigners if they want. A government has no right to sell to foreigners, the tax money that bbuilt those ndustries did not come from foreigners. Mugabe selling to Malaysians before "Zimbabweans" have a chance. These leaders have a terrible inferiority complex. The swallows will rule said Mzilikazi's ex boss. Will NEPAD work, can Africans allow their people to be free, free to be productive, I do not think these idiots can allow that.
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 08:30 PM

Maybe. But to be always anti-western ideals becoz of the fact that those ideals are western, even if they are good, will not get us anywhere!<p>There is no harm in refasioning those ideals to suit our situations rather than always be complaigning about anything 'WEST' as if everything 'WEST' is evil!<p>This mindset has to be altered!
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 08:36 PM

Bheki what you are describing is what Mbeki calls bad governance in his NEPAD programme proposal, which we as Africans ought to deal with!<p>Your thread of argument seems to be lost down the stream of ideas!
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 10:05 PM

It is not bad governance I am talking about. It is that Africans must be let free to work. If their own governments think they are stupid, then hell, Africa is in a mess one can not even imagine. SAA should have been sold share by share to south african citizens. The south african govt thinks its people are too stupid, it is sold to Swiss air which is now broke, the experts are broke. <p>Mugabe does not want the people of Matrabeleland to be involved in Zambezi water project, he wants malaysians because they are better people. Zisco was sold to Malaysians. As long as Africans are restricted, NEPAD is the bigger joker, bigger than Amins fly to the sun at night. One would have expected people to have come a long way since then especially in their thinking. <p>If you for example want to start a phone company to challange the PTC, you should not be barred. In fact anybody should be allowed to compete with PTC, at the end of the day, you get cheaper prices, rather than paying the extortionist bills currently some are paying.<p>Do you get the flow now, I am not talking about governance, I am talking abioout genuine freedom, not nonsense. NEPAD has nothing of substance to offer. Only free societies are wealthy. Note, a dictatorship does not mean no freedom. Taiwan was a dictatorship but people were free to participate in the economy without having to pay the ruling party anything. South Korea was a dictatorship upto 1987, yet it had spectacular growth. People were free to participate in the economy as they saw fit. In zimbabwe you can not even get maize without being a member of the ruling party, nonsense. Can you start a business to compete with Telkom in south africa, can you start your own electricity generating company no you can not. There is nothing original in NEPAD. It is stolen ideas from here and there by inferior minds, inferiors only steal. Therefore the ideas can not be developed properly. They are quick fix solutions of those with no guidelines, those who refuse to acknowledge the way of isinto busy bullshitting here and there.
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/09/02 10:08 PM

..well Mbeki and co seem to think there is nothing that African people have to hold ransom their leaders. He believes western aid/partnerships/investment are the tools to put unscrupulous leaders straight.
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 01:21 AM

That is the sad fact. But all I am saying is that western aide is not needed in free society. Africans will do the work. Remember that capital is man made, it is not something from heavan. At the end of the day those who believe their own people are inferior and can not do, it is them who destroy Africa. All the leaders are like that. All, not one or two or half or 90% all of them. In a spirit of free competition those who cheat lose out. The Enrons, The worldcoms in the USA, they lose, they cheated. The market will catch you. In Afruica who catches you, when everything is owned by the state. Even when they styeal nothing happans. Kangai comes to mind.Z$800 million when the dollar was 1:100 that is a lot of money considering within the short space of time the same junk is 1:900. Mbeki is wrong. People should be free to participate in the economy as they see fit. Then there will be no need for aide. Investment is another thing.
Posted by: iBoyz yezkweyeni

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 08:55 AM

The shamelessness of African leaders knows no bounds! Hayi mani, these people bayamthatha u number one ngempela.<p>Babuthene eDurban babizana ukuzojabulela i "African Union". Moi, Gadaffi, Nujoma,Dos Santos etc, benzani lapho?<p>Msila, NEPAD lacks integrity, ngoba why?? Fika la - http://www.inkundla.net/indonsakusa/
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 09:43 AM

If NEPAD is to go ahead, and the chances are that there will be efforts to go ahead with it, then it looks like it is a choice between DICTATORS and PUPPETS.<p>Museveni is an alleged such puppet and has sold mast of his country's assets to the western countries and re-admitted the Indians to rebuild the country. There is said to be some economic recovery in Uganda and he is largely accepted in the west in spite of his style of democracy.<p>Bhekuzulu, given your clear-cut views on indegenisation, do you have any misgivings about Mugabe's land reform and if so what are they?
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 10:44 PM

Bheki, what is your understanding of good governance and democracy?<p>To me it is where the government creates(through its Power and Authority which flows from those that are governed) and facilitates the empowerment largely of its own citizen through making it possible for them to exercise their freedoms such as the following:<p>* be major players in the creation of employment: to exercise economic freedom with the support of the governing(I think indeginisation concept falls into place here). Represent its business players on trade and make sure they trade as equals to the outsiders rather than to trade as PUPPETS of this existent UNEQUAL ORDER!<p>* To exercise social freedoms without any unwarranted restraint...people to be allowed to live their culture rather than be denied to live their culture....the refusal of ZPF to give the licence to Radio Mthwakazi is a case in point<p>IN a nutshell those that govern should use the Power and Authority that flows from the governed in the best interests of the governed!<p>Anything short of this is bad governance!<p>Yes the reality is that Africa has a big club of dictactors and this is the reason why NEPAD is going to fail.<br>Gaddafi has never had electons in his country and never will he dance to such music. NEPAD is encouraging democracy to be exercised which is not what Gaddafi, Mugabe and Moi wants to name a few!<p>Mugabe and Moi organise fake elections which they know they will win through foul means to appear good dictactors!<p>So what is wrong is not the ideals of NEPAD but the majority of dictactors that find themselves in what Thabo is trying his best to do. Thabo will find it hard going!<p>There is no choice between being a puppet of the west and being a dictactor! In actual fact most of the African dictactors are puppets of the west;<p>Banda and Mobutu were puppets of the west. Mugabe all along has been a dictactor and a puppet of the west..this is the reason why he never bothered tackling the land issue. Moi is a dictactor and a puppet of the west and so is Museveni and Mubarak!<p>The idea that these guys can choose to be either dictactors or puppets of the west falls out. Most of them are dictactors and at the same time puppets of the west! They have time and again sold out the aspirations of the people of the continent to their masters!<p>Thabo Mbeki wants to change all this. Africa should not be sold out by these megalomaniacs, who do nothing for their own peoplem but only sells them as slaves to their masters.<p>Thabo should not be tarred with the same brush of dictactors for only trying his best for Africa. It is a toll order for him!<p>Thabo wants Africa to be treated as an equal, but that can only takes place when there is political reform in Africa. Good governance and democracy comes in!<p>The people we should be criticising for letting Africa down are the likes of Moi, Mugabe, Gaddafi, Chiluba, Banda, Mwalimu and you name more!<p>Thabo and Ketumire and Mandela seem to be in the league of their own!<p>As African critics we have allowed ourselves to be pessimist creatures of habit as well as captives of the past. This should change. It is important that we as African reform as individuals in our thinking and analysis!
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 11:20 AM

I am aware that it is possible for a leader to be both puppet and dictator which is what most have been in the past, with the most illustrative example you have already given being Mobutu.<p>But this was pre-NEPAD, pre-AU. This was before the so-called "good governance" condition stipulated by NEPAD. This was before Mugabe fell out with the British. You certainly cannot call Mugabe a PUPPET now, neither can you say that about Gaddafi. I feel since Gaddafi has such economical clout in Africa and is a major proponent of the AU, he is bound to influence the others as he has done with Mugabe. The line of thinking is changing with African leaders, that's why they excluded a western approved leader from the AU summit, so as to antagonise the west, in the open at least!<p>They have more to gain from being NON PUPPET DICTATORS than being PUPPET DICTATORS, or both (so to speak)! <br>
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 12:37 PM

Mugabe and Gaddadfi are certainly no longer puppet dictactors of the west and this point is taken, but what about the rest of African dictactors the likes of: Museveni, Moi etc<p>It is true that the other African dictactors are slowly turnng against being puppets of the west to be puppets of the rich dictactorial Gaddafi.<p>The Lybians through Gaddafi are colonising Africa and they are wrecking the good ideals of Thabo's NEPAD!<p>NEPAD is in the slippery slope of failure not because it is a bad idea but because Gaddafi with his puppets are bent on wrecking it
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 01:22 PM

It looks like a can of worms has been opened and as such "PUPPET" and "DICTATOR" appear to be inextricably intertwined!<p>Mugabe the DICTATOR also happens to be a PUPPET of the DICTATOR Gaddafi. It's a vicious circle!<p>No wonder why people cannot figure out Mbeki, perhaps it's because he neither puppet nor dictator!
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 02:05 PM

I can say with confidence that Thabo is not a dictactor and that he is not a puppet of Gaddafi.<p>Mugabe is!<p>The ideals enshrined in NEPAD as we have stated them earlier are:<p>* good governance<p>* Democracy<p>* The upholding of the human rights<p>* Africa to be treated as an equal in World Trading<p><br>If those that say NEPAD is bad for making such ideals be a cornerstone for development in Africa, then what does Africa need if not the above?<p>Should NEPAD suffer its good ideals becoz of the bad apples(the club of dictactors) that it finds itself dealing with?<p>It is not just to lambast the good ideals of NEPAD just becoz it finds itself at the centre of a club of dictactors headed by Gaddafi!<p>In the same light it is not just and neither is it fair to lambast Mbeki for only trying to do good within a difficult political field that is awash with dictactors!<p>He is being tarred with the same brush of dictactors, but he appears a skilled politician who seems to strike a good balance of it all!
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 02:17 PM

Msilawobe, were are the provisions in NEPAD that state that citizens can participate in an economy, there are none. NEPAD says nothing about nitty gritty stuff. Go to South Africa now and say you want to start a phone company. The will tell you no. It is nonsense, nothing but nonsense. Get out of Africa whist you can. Finally when sense comes into the heads of these fools you can come back. It is nonsense, it has no sense.
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 02:20 PM

On the contrary, I think most critics have opposed the amount of stakes the west (G8 countries) seem to hold in all this. Nepad in being seen as a potential gateway for recolonisation of the Continent.<p>Bhekuzulu's criticism is well documented above and Ncube's analysis from the Talking Point gives a broad view......
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 02:28 PM

Bheki it will be unreal for us to expect to reap the rewards of NEPAD when it is being set up at this juncture!<p>And it remains to be seen whether the club of dictactors will embrace it in its true spirit and adhere to it wholeheartedly!<p>This brings me to my doubts about these dictactors allowing this good programme to take place. They want to wreck it!<p>The examples that you are giving are a proof that there is something wrong there that needs to be addressed. NEPAD seems to be an advocate of that, no wonder its global driving philosophy which is guiding Mbeki is African Reinnacence(sp)
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 02:38 PM

On the contrary I think the economic structural adjustment programmes that were adopted by these fools who lead an onslaught on NEPAD are the programmes that made it easy for the West to economically recolonise Africa!<p>Economically, through the structural adjustment programmes that these guys adopted,we are economic colonies of the west!<p>Africa is in debt becoz of what they adopted!
Posted by: iBoyz yezkweyeni

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 03:00 PM

"The ideals enshrined in NEPAD as we have stated them earlier are....."<p>I say REALISM hatshi IDEALISM. Ng'phinde futhi "Msila", funda iphepha ku Talking Point uzabona why?<p>Money for nothing? I don't think ukuthi lizaphiwa US$6bn halaz nje! After all "money talks,bullshit walks"<p>Mbeki uzenza ukleva kodwa akuyena owathumela iCIO yakhe ukuthi bainvestigethe oPhosa labo Ramaphosa?<p>Abaziyo bathi he's no democrat,uyafana nje loMgabe.<p><p>
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 03:16 PM

ESAP, OAU, NAM, AID, all previously touted as brilliant solutions and Africa still suffers!
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 03:29 PM

And Boyz the REALISM about Africa is that it is:<p>* poorly governed<p>* democracy is a far fetched idea<p>* the abuse of human rights is rife(if you are Ndebele in Mugabe's Zimbabwe)<p>And this is what NEPAD seeks to remedy!<p>As human beings we first postulate ideas which we then transmute into realism! Nothing wrong with that!<p>I regard NEPAD's ideas as ideas till such a time they are transmuted into reality in Africa(The realism bit that you are pointing out)<p>I have read that criticism of NEPAD from the Talking point. It is good but it can not be held as a bible!<p>It is someone's critisism of this programme, which is good but can not be seen as an absolute truth. If we treat it as such then we are mistaken!
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 03:35 PM

I do not think Mbeki has shown us yet that he is a dictactor!<p>Of course as a politician he will work towards outdoing his political opponents, but he has not reduced South Africa to a one man show as Mugabe or Gaddafi do!<p>
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 06:48 PM

Does it matter if Mbeki is a dictator or not. The question is NEPAD. It has not taken reality into account, the reality being A is A though wishfull thinking will wish A is B.Mbeki has not considered the fact of why Africa is failing. He has wished a solution, the solution does not consider why Africa is failing. The solution is a Euro thinking mode. Go back to the guidelines Cde Potshoza was talking about.
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 07:06 PM

Msilawobe, A is A, you are dead right when you say recolonization can now take place because of the likes of MUgabe. True, everything is messed up because of the Mugabes. Africa is greatly weakened because of people like Mugabe. These are foolish short term thinkers. Go back to the guideleines.
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 09:11 PM

Ombeki pretend not to understand nature. They think somebody who hates them is superior. We need isintu. Only it can protect us from the coming horror, it is our only survival, the survival of a race, a people. Not these damn beggars. AU is a failure before it starts. <p>Ndebeles must become the guardians of hope and salvation for a free Africa. There is no use discussing and talking about those whose minds have gone. We must seek to preserve the culture that the likes of Mbeki, Mugabe, Mandela, Nkrumah seek to destroy by saying all blacks are blacks using the colonial equivalent. We are Ndebele. We must protect ourselves from the storm that is being generated. Only we can because we are superior. History has proven it, from the time when 300 men beat Shaka to when Mugabe had to use dishonour to trick a fool like Nkomo to put down guns. If a man like Mangena had klived obviously things would have been differant. Only we have the neccessary genetic code to defend Africa and preserve the beauty of Africa's cultures which are being denied by the puppet creators of NEPAD watch out for the coming storm which is always brewing.<br>[htp]http://www.stormfront.org[/htp]
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 09:12 PM

Ombeki pretend not to understand nature. They think somebody who hates them is superior. We need isintu. Only it can protect us from the coming horror, it is our only survival, the survival of a race, a people. Not these damn beggars. AU is a failure before it starts. <p>Ndebeles must become the guardians of hope and salvation for a free Africa. There is no use discussing and talking about those whose minds have gone. We must seek to preserve the culture that the likes of Mbeki, Mugabe, Mandela, Nkrumah seek to destroy by saying all blacks are blacks using the colonial equivalent. We are Ndebele. We must protect ourselves from the storm that is being generated. Only we can because we are superior. History has proven it, from the time when 300 men beat Shaka to when Mugabe had to use dishonour to trick a fool like Nkomo to put down guns. If a man like Mangena had klived obviously things would have been differant. Only we have the neccessary genetic code to defend Africa and preserve the beauty of Africa's cultures which are being denied by the puppet creators of NEPAD watch out for the coming storm which is always brewing.<br>[htp]http://www.stormfront.org[//htp]
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/10/02 09:13 PM

Ombeki pretend not to understand nature. They think somebody who hates them is superior. We need isintu. Only it can protect us from the coming horror, it is our only survival, the survival of a race, a people. Not these damn beggars. AU is a failure before it starts. <p>Ndebeles must become the guardians of hope and salvation for a free Africa. There is no use discussing and talking about those whose minds have gone. We must seek to preserve the culture that the likes of Mbeki, Mugabe, Mandela, Nkrumah seek to destroy by saying all blacks are blacks using the colonial equivalent. We are Ndebele. We must protect ourselves from the storm that is being generated. Only we can because we are superior. History has proven it, from the time when 300 men beat Shaka to when Mugabe had to use dishonour to trick a fool like Nkomo to put down guns. If a man like Mangena had klived obviously things would have been differant. Only we have the neccessary genetic code to defend Africa and preserve the beauty of Africa's cultures which are being denied by the puppet creators of NEPAD watch out for the coming storm which is always brewing.<br> <A HREF="http://www.stormfront.org" TARGET=_blank>http://www.stormfront.org</A>
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/11/02 09:12 AM

To think that the Ndebeles are the only nation that can defend Africa and restore African pride amounts to a greater illusion of indulgence!<p>Infact Mbeki through his NEPAD is trying to release us from the jaws of slavery we find ourselves in, in Zimbabwe!<p>Yes we are a great people with a great culture but to relegate all the peoples of Africa to subhumanity is rather a wild idea!<p>I appreciate though your love of our culture!<p>How come this storm of yours is about White people?<p>I am rather puzzled by this!
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/11/02 01:42 PM

It is a warning. For us to be vigilant. Nobody is hapopy with the satus quo, stormfront is the worst type of enemy. It is just so that we can get an idea of what the enemy thinks at its worst. <p>No they are not relegated to sub human, they are humans but they need a guide. Like Mbeki needs a guide and if mugabe had a guide Zimbabwe would not be the mess. Now the destroyers have taken over and are running amock. If kaunda had a guide Zambia would be wealthy. We have common sense because we identify with what is Africa not hallucinating. <p>It is upto you to believe you are the best. If you believe you are merely the same as all other humans, then your fighting spirit is long dead. You shall die all in name with your fighting spirit. Hamba lamadlozi and you can endure all for the goal.
Posted by: Kleptocrat

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/11/02 02:45 PM

The line below is extracted from a posting on the Stormfront Bulletin Board...umtan'enyoka yinyoka!<p>"I made the pic because I had about an hour to spare befor my mom let me log onto the internet." <br>
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/11/02 03:32 PM

Bheki I am a great admirer of the King and have written praises in poetic verse of him and I am the great admirer and believer that we are a great people, but the idea that we are the only supreme nation that can guide Africa out of its mess is rather a far fetched and an illconceived idea!<p>You would be reminded that in some sections of our community, some have wondered and questioned Mzilikazi's wisdom bring of us here in Zimbabwe, to suffer at the hands of those that persecute us. Some say had he stayed in South Africa under Tshaka we would probably be better off!<p>Some would even go further to say he was a coward not to stand upto Tshaka and eliminate him and take over the reigns in Zululand!<p>But I personally do not think he was any of this, while at the same time he might have been!<p>But he was a great King who created a nation of his own!
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/11/02 03:50 PM

Storm thing:<p>The way you put it was as if you were talking about the Ndebele storm. I felt intrigued by it all and then discovered that its about the White men<p>Intriguing still!<p>When our we creating our own storm? We should.
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/11/02 04:00 PM

I do not think it is true that Thabo has not considered why Africa is failing!<p>He has clearly pointed it out in his NEPAD as:<p>1. Bad governance , hence the need for good governance!<p>2. Lack of democracy, hence democracy is a central theme in his programme<p>3. The abuse of human rights(we Ndebeles have suffered it under Mugabe), hence the upholding and observance of human rights runs supreme in his programme<p>4.Africa is not treated as an equal in International Trade, hence his advocacy that markets be open on an equal footing for Africa!<p>These are not bad ideas, but people want to make them bad ideas just becoz they hate Thabo the Person and Thabo the Politician!<p>No! it is not fair!
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/11/02 04:03 PM

And Bheki there is nowhere in NEPAD, where it says that local people should NOT participate in their economies!<p>I am yet to read about it!
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/12/02 12:59 AM

Nepad does not say local people should not participate. Fine that is true. It should say they can participate, because at the moment they can not. Try to start your own teephone cvorporation to compete with government corporations in Zimbabwe, Namibia, Botswana, South Africa home of NEpad, you can not. Therefore NEPAD does not address that question. <p>To even suggest that 300 people could have fought the entire ZULU nation is a sign of damn stupidity. Secondly, there was no Zimbabwe when Mzilikazi xcame here. There was no South Africa, unless those who suggest Mzilikazi should have stayed in South Africa when there was none. If the whites never came, do not forget events would have been very different. No my friend be gratefull you have an identity. Mzilikazi created no nation, he led a group of people who became a nation under his leadership. People create a nation, no one man can create a nation. Remember always, Zimbabwe, Namibia, South Africa Nigeria these are creations of whites. If you accept them you accept being defined by a white. See the problem,. NO wonder these people look upto whites, they have accepted being defined by a white. Therefore there is no room for the true self, only the inferior self always begging please help, please help. <p>Why should anybody open up their markets to Africa, why? Beggars. Create your own markets. Always begging. But the theory of trade says opening up markets will be good for all. But why should Africans cry to the west for west to open up their markets when to import a car into south africa you face 100% tarrifs. To bruing computers cars etc into Zimbabwe one faces 150%. Do you not think Africa should also open its markets. Crying to the west but refusing to look at ones own actions.<p>The storm thin is there. I just put the storm front so that one can see these people clearly do not like blacks or any other race. Watch it, when Mbeki goes around like a chicken without a head, remember Mugabe used to do the same nonsense in the name of the frontline, both achiveing nothing but establishing chaos, Mugabe refusing what was needed ANC, PAC to station guerilas in Zimbabwe, and Mbeki refusing common sense of the Free economy. <p>Msilawobe, we must remain constant, to not ever admit to be assimilated. When these girls merry shonas, forget about them, they have gone. Inferiority complex, one thinks what is ones own is rubbish. Look at them when they get oversees. Nigerians, Zairens all know Zimbabwean girls are bitches, not proud, cake for a glass of champagne.<p>Democracy or the lack of it hass never been the cause of poverty anywhere on this earth. NOt now, not in the past and never in the future.<br>
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/12/02 07:31 AM

Well NEPAD has just been launched a few weeks ago, not even a month!<p>How then do you expect it to have had an effect within the short period of time!<p>You are being unrealistic in your assessment!<p>Now let me ask you this question? Have you ever got a loan from commercial banks? And who owns the majority of those banks?<p>If you have, then you are no different from Thabo or what he seeks to do with Africa!<p>This Aid is not a new thing! At micro level getting a loan is just the same as Africa getting aid from the West!<p>The important thing is how one uses that loan.If you fail to establish accountability mechanisms first as a way of using that loan in your investment, then you are doomed!<p>Mbeki through NEPAD is asking Africans to establish accountability in their political structures through good governance and adhering to democracy!<p>That is not bad is it?<p>Taking a swipe at other Nguni peoples is a school of thought that I would like to declare as ill-conceived and not in our best interests!<p>I rebel against that type of thinking! I even think(my apologies), it is backward! We should be building bridges with our Nguni counterparts rather than antagonising them. Many will agree with me there. It will be the folly of the highest order for us to start fighting with the Ngunis rather than aim at building bridges!<p>We have a lot in common!
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/12/02 07:47 AM

Lack of democracy usually lead to wars or internal conflicts Bheki! <p>Wars lead to poverty as people do not get time to focus on economic participation! Do not fool yourself mfowethu and refute this naked truth!<p>Do you think any people in Congo are thinking of starting up businesses or they are pre-occupied with their safety?<p>What about people in Rwanda during that genocide? Do you honestly think that setting up businesses or later own producing the basic food to feed themselves was their prime aim during that genocide or they were worried about their safety or killing each other?<p>So what do you mean that lack of democracy has never been a cause of poverty?<p>Bheki you have the ability to shock me and suppose everyone following this thread! Your analysis lacks integrity and honesty!<p>If you can not see this plain truth then it is not worth while for us to continue engaging in this discussion!
Posted by: iBoyz yezkweyeni

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/12/02 09:51 AM

We! "Msila", given your fervent support of NEPAD, it would be nice if you put out a conscise,coherent paper to argue your case. At the moment you are only saying yinhle iNEPAD without saying how or why. <p>Ngithemba uzathinta usibalukhulu usabhumithe lelo phepha.<p>
Posted by: matabele

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/12/02 03:55 PM

I am new to this bulletin board, and I have a short contribution to make. I dont believe Nepad or any new economic portion will help africa so long as the current nation status quos exist.<br>1. I do agree that the current african states are not in their natural order, but are creations and products of colonial convenience. This is the reason for the genocides in Rwanda, the Biaffrians, etc. Peoples who had historically been separated by a river were now one nation. Remember, it is much easier to control any outbursts of nationalism and resistance if you can have the natives concentrate on killing each other. My suggestion is for africans for the first time to look deep into themselves and see if the current structure works, and the obvious answer is that it does not. So why not go back to the old natural entities, provinces that used to separate groups, and then have those gruops unite and form larger entities based on equity and mutual respect and mutual needs.<p>You see Gents, by creating these extremely large african nations, the europeans were doing it as cost saving measures. Imagine a country like belgium which is about the size of Harare, bulawayo and Mutare combined controlled Zaire, the third largest african country, hundreds of times larger than itself. You know DRC is as large as western europe and yet you have over 15 nations, some as small as liechestein, much smaller than Belgium. This is becoz there was an early realization that it was important to let some european tribes make their own distinct nations to both preserve cultural diversity and reduce the prevalence of wars. Most african civil wars are caused by tribal inequities that are never addressed, but perpetuated from generation to generation. In Rwanda today, the tutsi are in charge and tomorrow, when the hutus do eventually take over, they could begin persecuting the tutsi again.<p>I believe the best lesson we can learn from the west is that of Federalism. In our case, I belive a federalism entered into by willing nations. Some may argue about resources being lost by some tribes. For the tribe that has been getting resources from others, it has to learn to develop its own, as they never belonged to you. look at most of those tiny european countries, and the southeast asian honkongs, singapores, and the taiwans that have no known natural resources, but are able to survive.<p>What I am saying is that today there are 53 nations. If that number was to explode to 200 in the shortterm as a result of the re-alignment of viable provinces, etc which would later make federal alliances with other common interest groups, then so be it. This does not include countries like Nigeria, which is 2.5 times the size of Zimbabwe with over 500 ethnic groups dividing itself into 500 little unviable nations. Here I refer to countries like Zimbabwe that can easily divide itself into 5 autonomous provinces, same for Zambia, and DRC from which one can get 10 or so autonomous entities that can later join. The main point is union of the different entities BASED ON MUTUAL RESPECT, COMMON ECONOMIC NEEDS AND INTERESTS, not the usual "we are equal in Zim", and yet all resources from all the provinces are channeled to the development of just the capital. This is quite the normal phenomenon in most african nations, and why is that? <br>
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/12/02 04:47 PM

Boyz<p>I have indeed given the reasons why I say it will be good if adopted by everyone to its true spirit!<p>Producing a coherent paper to argue my case is not out of my reach and nxa uSiba efuna a different perspective ngingayifaka!<p>Matebele,<br> what you are saying about redrawing of bounderies could be a solution as well!<p>This could only happen under a democractic Africa where those that are in power are willing to listen to this issue!<p>It would be a good thing for Africa without any doubt!<p>It will pave way for Federalism, which I am a passionate supporter of!<p>But Federalism can even occur within the colonial bounderies that we have and people can still enjoy the sovereign right to govern themselves the way they see fit and not to be the always governed!<p>Political reform in Africa which can embrace Federalism and good governance which calls for accountability to those that govern and the observance of human rights by those entrusted with Power are the only ways to move Africa forward!<p>With good governance comes accountability. Those that govern can not always use Power and Authority to serve their personal interests but the interests of the governed!<p>The governed in Africa should be empowered to dispense Power and Authority to those that want to govern them!<p>They should be the ones that should give it and be able to take it away when they want!<p>The Power and Authority should flow from the governed to the governing and the governing should use it for the best interests of the governed. Anything short of this will be the abuse of Power and Authority by those that govern. Africa is awash with these examples and Zimbabwe is an intersting example at the moment!<p>How could good governance and democracy be achieved? Through the establishment of supreme constititutions that allow different African peoples to govern themselves in Federal States of their own geographical areas of influence!<p>Power to the people not more Powers to the megalomaniacs! This is what dear Africa needs and I think this is what NEPAD is advocating for!<p>NEPAD may not have singled out Federalism as part of good governance, but it is at the very heart of good governance and a good solution for African problems!
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/12/02 06:22 PM

Mfowethu, Msilawobe. I gave examples where democracy did not give rise to industrialization or development, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore and South Korea. In all all these countries throughout the 50's, 60's 70's and 80's they were run by dictators and they had spectecular economic growth many times 12% they became known as Asian Tigers. <p>NEPAD, I have gave you a clear example of its flaw, it does not address the restriction of participation within an economy. Go to the home of NEPAD and start your own electricity generating company, go there and start your own phone company. You can not.<p>Nguni, I told you we have to be their guides, they are like little babies left alone in the forest and will get eaten up if they are not carefull. But we must be suttle in order not to hurt their feelings. <p>Federalism, NEPAD like everything before it refuses to acknowledge that being black is not meaning we are the same. We are different nations. NEPAD is trying to be very ignorant. It refuses to go to the core of Africa's problems.<p>I hope sir you are satisfied.<p>Your Brother<br>Bhekuzulu Khumalo Ka mbonambi, Ka Mashobani, Ka Langa, Ka Ngungulu
Posted by: iBoyz yezkweyeni

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/13/02 11:45 AM

"Producing a coherent paper to argue my case is not out of my reach and nxa uSiba efuna a different perspective ngingayifaka"!<p><br>I have no doubts about your capability(I wasn't implying that it's out of your reach), thumela kuSibalukhulu,ungalindi yena aze akucele.<p>I look forward to the paper.<p>Sebenza!!!<p>
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/13/02 01:33 PM

Bheki<p>So Bheki if the economy of Zimbabwe and that of Matebeleland had been a Tiger like those of Asian countires with dictactorial and genocidal Mugabe at its helm and having killed more than 20 000 of our own, are you suggesting that you would be happy with that situation?<p>You seem to be driven by an idealogy of tribal supremacy like Mugabe, which has caused a lot of problems in Africa. In that respect you are no different from Mugabe!<p>Africa does not need anymore tribal supremacy and domination of other tribes!<p>This idealogy has seen the abuse of human rights of minority tribes by majority tribes who think that by the virtue of being the majority gives them the right of supremacy over others and deny them their human rights!<p>NEPAD is saying no to this and that is not wrong!
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/13/02 01:45 PM

Boyz <p>Mfowethu you read too much into that statement!<p>It was never intended to mean that it is beyond my capability but was meant to say if there is a need to present a different view point on NEPAD and Sibalukhulu deems it fit to get that view, then it could be done!<p>
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/13/02 07:51 PM

I said voting is not a recipe for development. Never has been never will be no matter how you argue. This is a discussion on development not human rights. And to develop a system of elections is not needed. Work is needed. Zimbabwe has had elections since 1980 in case you did not know. Shonas have never expressed tribal superiority, they have always maintained that they shall rule because of superior numbers that work in an election system. I maintain Ndebeles are superior and a chosen people. If you do not subscribe to it that is not my problem, subscribe to what suites you. What suites you are the Nkomos who say all are people therefore I will not fight for Ndebeles I will make money out of them., That is what at the final analysis what you Msilawobe beliebve in. All are human, afterall, the blood is red. Do not forget a dogs blood is also red so is a cows and a monkeys as well as a snakes. Most blood tends to be red, especially of mamals, reptiles birds. So all of them must be treated equally, stop eating red meat.<p>God and Amadlozi chose me, and most Ndebeles, those who do not believe good for them. RThat is why we will prevail, because we know, we know they were with us when we fought Shaka, when we fought Nyoka, when we fought the crocodile people, when we fought at Butha Buthe, when we fought at Ekuphumeleni, when we fought at Thaba Nchu, when we fought at Mafeking. Now we are being punished for sinning. That sin was to turn against our amadlozi and follow the way of others, rejecting our own. Our punishment is complete. For you to then say our ways are wrong mfowethu, usubhayiza. Look around you, that is its result, completed by Nkomo who said all are the same, Zimbabwe is what we want. rejecting uNdiweni when he said the solution is federation. Now too late you want federation, you have already sold out. There is still a chance to go back, but you refuse to accept that A can only be A and nothing else. You go and praise NEPAD.<p>NEPAD that denys A is A, it says A can be anything you want through the act of wishfull thinking, A can be B, C or D. In fact A can be all the letters of the alphabet if you wish. I have shown pure follies of NEPAD, instead of admitting it, you come pout with nonsense and compare Mugabe to Taiwan. It is either you are a fool or just a purely stubborn man who refuses when shown he is wrong and looks for petty arguments. That is the folly of the Ndebele, that is the folly of any defeated people. Was there genocide in South Korea. In your mind d you think a Mugabe is capable of developing a Tiger economy. Can you not see why he could not do it. But then you go to the wishfull thinking, if Zimbabwe and Matabelkeland were a Tiger would genocide be justifiable. If, If, is Zimbabwe that. No it is not. Therefore, A is A. If still you see nothing wrong with NEPAD, there is nothing more I can do or say or want to say.<p>Choose for yourself, judge for your self, there is the evidance in front of you. NEPAD will never amount to anything because it refuses to accept A is A. It assumes one can wish A to be Z. If A was Z instead of BAT we would have BZT. Be carefull. Adios mfowethu.
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/14/02 09:22 AM

Bheki<p>Are you now gonna educate me about the blood of animals...that it is red?<p>Your argument lacks coherence and clarity of thought! And so is your gramma and it is difficult to follow your ideas. <p>If you have followed my argument well you would have realised that I have declared my support for Federalism but you choose to ignore this!<p>But then you are a guy who first believes that you are a supreme individual and as such your ideas are supreme, yet your ideas are basic!<p>But then you have proved that you lack supremacy in your argument and the way you presents your argument!<p>Chaotic ideas reign supreme in your argument such that it is difficult to follow it! <p>I am not the first one to complaign about this!<p>Your attack on NEPAD lacks clarity of thought and coherence of ideas. Your ideas are jumbled up and so is your gramma!<p>The criticism on NEPAD on Talking point is well presented, logical and coherent and does raise important issues!<p>One can follow it better than your jumbled idealogy presented in jumbled sentences!<p>The bottom line is that we differ on this. You hold the view that NEPAD is a bad idea! I hold the view that NEPAD is a good idea for Africa if adopted in its true spirit!<p>We live to discuss another day baba Khumalo!<p>
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/14/02 09:26 AM

The AAA philosophy you have propounded about NEPAD is very interesting to say the least and so is the blood of animals' philosophy that is reigning supreme in your argument!<p>Hatshi ngizwile mfowethu!
Posted by: matabele

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/14/02 08:41 PM

Beki (BK)<br> you are absolutely right about your south asian tigers examples. My first question is which would you prefer, that dictatorial model, or the western type whereby people are free from the very beginning? Secondly, those very same asian tigers today are the most democratic nations in that region (outside Japan) simply becoz even though they had massive economic growth during their periods of dictatorship, they knew they could never sustain their political systems any further. BK, I am a staunch oponent of the paradigm that "the ends justify the means". Instead as a Christian I firmly believe in "doing unto others what I would prefer being done to me", and becoz of that I have an inherent belief in freedom.<p>Lets look at Europe for a moment. When Yugoslavia broke up, the different ethnic groups were easily separated into the nations of Croatia, Estonia, Serbia, Bosnia-Herzogovina, last year kosovo joined them. I am not sure abou Montenegro, but the last time I read they were planning a referendum to decide whether they wanted to remain a federation with Serbia. This was all enacted and supported by the great powers without any incident or accusations of tribalism. It was simple common sense. These people hate each other, so why continue keeping them together?<p>When it comes to Africa, double standards arise, and that is the point I was trying to make in my last contribution. It is a simple fact it does not matter how much economic activity you generate, becoz the colonial history itself by its very nature has tended to favor one tribe over the other. Unless people can at least be given the opportunity to decide their own destinies not much will happen. No amount of education, or economic activity will do much to change prevailing attitudes so long ceratin peoples feel disenfranchised from the word go. For example about 5 yrs ago, the Canadians from the Province of Quebec voted in a referendum 51% to 49% to stay within the Canadian Union. This referendum not only showed that almost half of Quebecoids felt they could become an independent entity, but it also relieved the simmering pressure that would have caused a social explosion had it been left unattended, and this is the very thing that is always happening in Africa. Just last yr, after about 200yrs, the scottish voted to have a parliament of their own.<p>My last example with DRC was that it would be better to have 10 or so smaller nations which if they decied to unite and reconstitute DRC, then good for them. I believe thes smaller nations would do a better job at securing and protecting their rich natural resources, becoz gents, our resources are at the heart of why the status quo is being maintained. Today everybody knows that outside Russia, the only other region in the world rich in mineral resources is the SADC region.If nothing changes, the pluder will continue.<p>Further more, say in the future in Zim, another wouldbe dictator rose, only this time he was presiding over a federation of say 5 provinces, Mat., mid. Masv., Manic., and Mashland, and he knew that any of these provinces were relatively economically independent, do you think he would risk it. My contention about Africa is that the current systems of Government are only producing either maniacal dictators or western economic puppets who sell their "resources" to outsiders. Actually gents, to me Zim is the greates disappointment becoz it has the greatest potential to have a working federal republic. Our tribalism now deals with just minor old habits and is far from being as rabid as in nigeria, Kenya, ethiopia, even south africa.<p>We can deny the dire straits that africa is in, by making antiseptic creams that just sooth the bullet hole, while the bullet is still lodged inside. Or we can accept it and find drastic solutions to this perennial problem. This is the reason why AU, Nepad, or any other remedies will not work. This is just putting a bandage on a broken leg. New economic formulas applied to the same old tribal suspicions, economic disparities, etc.<p>The problem is that people have so bought into the politically correct humanistic social agenda that says forget evrything else and lets just all live happily ever after. Reality shows us some people will never like each other what ever you do. Today Israel, the only democratic nation in the middle east has a 20% arab population which is actually hostile to the existence of Israel eventhough they know they could never get the same standard of living elsewhere in their fellow arab brothers. In the sudan, black -african christians are being forcibly converted, or exterminated by the rabid islamic movement there. The only reason the status quo is left to continue is becoz of the oil there.<p>Some may give the example of South Africa as a success, no it is far from beong a success. The blacks there are still in the euphoria of being a 7yr old independent nation. Over 95% of economic resources are still in the hands of the whites who make up about 15% of the population. There are over 60 000 white commercial farmers there. Do you think they will easily give up this land? South is a time bomb waiting to go off. Don`t be surprised 10 or 20yrs from now you hear the Zulus wanting their own homeland, etc. This is becoz of a simple fact - People only feel secure in their present wellbeing and future success when they have control over their own immediate resources and government. Until that happens, no amount of western prescribed economic programs will change much.
Posted by: Mbodlomani

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/15/02 02:13 PM

Lapha ke BoBaba laboMama ngiyalizwa kodwa lami ngithanda ukuthi ngingene ngixoxe ngobuhlobo obukhona phakathi kweDemocracy le Ntuthuko.<p>Sitshelwa ngeDemocracy nje sitshelwa ngamazwe afana leBritain leUSA. Bafuna abantu balandele iDemocracy yabo le abasebeyiphila kulezinsuku.<p>Kodwa ungakhangelisisa amazwe la anotha ngesikhathi ecindezela abanye abantu, ikakhulu thina abansundu. IBritain yakhiwa yanotha yabuye yaphumelela ngenxa yokuthathela izizwe ezinengi emhlabeni amaResources. Lamhla iPound angithi iqiniswa ngamaGold reserves abawantshontsha eAfrika. Kakusiyo democrasy ke leyo. IDemocracy yabo leyo abayitshoyo batsho ngoba abantu ababeseBritain babekhululekile kodwa labo ababekumaColonies ke?<p>IAmerica layo inje nje angithi kungenxa yeSlave Trade. Kambe bangekela njani ukunotha bona babeleFree Labour okweminyaka engamakhulu amathathu? Inotho leyo yiyo abayidla lamhla thina besesicabanga ukuthi yikuthi kulokuthula emazweni abo kanti hatshi bona bacindezela ezinye izizwe.<p>ISouth Africa, angithi layo inothe nje kungenxa yokucindezela abensundu. LeRhodesia layo yayinothe ngaloluhlobo. ERhodesia njalo kwaphinde kwaba lempi, kodwa abantu abanengi babehleli ngcono kulalokhu abayikho khona lamhla kwezenotho.<p>Kungasenani amaPolicies aboUSA namhlanje angani akhululekile kwezenotho kodwa sebe sebenzisa oIMF le World Bank lezinye izikhali thina ubuthutha bethu yikuthi siyazicindela sodwa thina abansundu. LoMgabe lo uthi ulwa labelungu na? Cha uzilwela leMDC yena at any cost.<p>Njengoba isibonelo samaTiger Economies sesitshengiselwe njalo kukhanya eyabo intuthuko kayihambanga ngale indlela eyathathwa yi Britain le USA, kunzima ukuthi sihluze ubuhlobo obukhona phakathi kweDemocracy leNtuthuko. ISoviet ke yona singayithini? Singathi yakhithizwa yi"lack of democracy" kumbe kungenxa yamapolicies ezenotho ayesekelene leSocialism/Communism leMarxism?<p>Ngibona ngivumelana lombono othi kuya ngamaEconomic policies, hatshi ukuthi kule Democracy kumbe hatshi. Kesikhangeleni ngase Argentina.
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/15/02 06:04 PM

Let us just have a referendum and be free. That is the first step to Africa admitting reality. Justr as in Monenegro. It does not compromise Africa in any way that people become free. NEPAD once again fails on that score. Instead it looks for money for an African army to keep Africa as it is. So that there will never be a chance of freedom. MOst of the money for NEPAD is going to this so called "Peace keeping" force. Yet ignorance says NEPAD is good. If guns are good then yes NEPAD is the best plan for Africa.
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/15/02 06:58 PM

Msilawobe go to South Africa and start a phone company. Go and start a electricity generating company. You can not can you. Are people then free to participate in the economy. Is simple logic to difficult for you. Go now and do it. If you can not then NEPAD is a lie and a fraud. Go now and do it. The law does not allow you. You then can not talk of freedom and NEPAD. That is why nobody gave it any money because it is rubbish. Whilst NEPAD manged to scrounge 2 billion from the G8 Russia with concrete plans scrounged 20 billion. Wake up, they all know its a fraud. Since when has anybody needed help to free their own people. What kind of lunatics say give me some money and I will introduce freedom. Must you be paid to free your people. My grammer is pathetic, well done, is that what you can say. Pathetic, pay people to free their own people. Mbeki says to the West, give usd money and we free our people. He holds his own people to Ransom and west must pay him. Pathetic. I never said I was supreme, I said Ndebeles. If you do not feel like that, then Shonas are right. Dominate foolish people. You deserve to be dominated. I do not. Go and discuss with your equals the Shona.
Posted by: Magatsheni

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/15/02 09:37 PM

<br>Bhekizulu,<p>I have tried to folow your arguments kodwa hatshi bo sengididekile ingqondo. You have no rhyme or reason and there by losing most of us as to why you disagree with Nepad. You also seem to want to drill into people's heads that A is A - enough of that sesizwile jaha. It's pretty obvious but you go round and round in circles. You also seem to take offense to other people's opinions nxa bengavumelani lawe it's wrong. Kasifanani agree to differ on some issues because that's not going anyway fast.<p>I personally think you find Msilawobe a threat and i got to give him the heads up - his writing is crystal clear and he knows where he stands and can back up his argument sufficiently. Uqinisile njalo uMsilawobe about your gramma etc kawuzwakali ukuthi uthini - you tend to get too wrapped up in this whole issue. Collect your thoughts and put them in a logical and sequential matter then people like me may get where you are coming from.<p>Bheki, you do come off as being supreme or having a holier than thou attitudes towards others. That's not called and those are the very things that have lead to a decline in society and have prevented us from ukuphumelela entweni esizenzayo. Ukuthi i am Ndebele or Shona kumbe ikhiwa akungibhadali if i want to get anyway in life. We all have to put our heads together and come up with something constructive for once. We can not right the wrongs of the past in one but we can certainly chose what our future should be like.<p>Anyway just a thought - and if i have stepped on anyone's toes uxolo kini lonke.<br>
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/16/02 08:22 AM

'You deserve to be dominated' so you say Bheki!<p>Just becoz I have a different opinion from yours, it makes me 'deserve to be dominated' by the Shona people? <p>Get a life!<p>Why do I advocate for a Matebeleland Federal state if I want to be dominated!<p>Look I do not advocate for the domination of other tribes and neither do I advocate that other tribes dominate others like you do!<p>Your labelling the Nguni tribes and other African tribes as inferior and Ndebeles as superior and the only tribe that can liberate Africa is not a bad example of your twisted and mistaken idealogy! It is an excellent example of your craving for dominance of other tribes like Mugabe has been!<p>Such a crazy idealogy has razed down the aspirations of the African people and made them focus on killing each other on tribal lnes rather than develop themselves! As a result of these tribal supremacist, Africa has become the land of chaos, poverty and the land where there is no hope for the better! No wonder why we have become the pessimist creatures of habit and the captives of our past!<p>It is time to move forward and forsake this idealogy of tribal supremacy. Let us embrace the philosophy of geographical supremacy in the areas we live in and exercise supremacy on our own affairs and our lives!<p>I advocate that each tribe dominate itself and be responsible for its own affairs, rather than be dominated by other tribes like what is happening in Zimbabwe with respect to the Ndebeles and Shonas. This is the same thing in other African countries where majority tribes have seen it as divine right to suffocate and abuse the rights of the so called minority tribes!<p>This is the reason why I am for Federalism and a Federal Matabele State, where we will be able to govern ourselves and not be governed by someone in Harare!<p>Grow up and mature in the way you debate!<p>You are just as irritating as the way you write!<p>To be honest when I try to get the sense of what you are writing, it gets pretty difficult, monotonous and irritating!<p>All I need is for you to give me a coherent and clear well thought out argument on why you think NEPAD is going to fail, and it should be presented in a way that you respect my view point!<p>At least I am not the only one who finds you a difficult person. This is even evident in your presentations. They are difficult to read and difficult to follow!
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/16/02 08:43 AM

Bheki<p>How are you going to have a referendum where there is a dictactorship of a tribal majority with a dictactorial Mugabe at its helm?<p>Do you see why Thabo says that Africa needs political reform and democracy?<p>It is easy to have a peoples' referendum in a democracy!
Posted by: Thathani Ngwenya

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/16/02 03:01 PM

The answer to your question Bheki is no, one can not start a telephone company in South Africa. NEPAD is nothing new, these people refuse to understand that capital is man made. For Africa to succeed, Africans must create capital. NEPAD does not in anyway address that. <p>Nobody will carry Africa, why should they.<br> <A HREF="http://www.epherald.co.za/herald/2002/02/18/biz/nepad.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.epherald.co.za/herald/2002/02/18/biz/nepad.htm</A>
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/17/02 11:06 AM

Why is inkundla not Zimbabwe registered. Why is it www.inkundla.net and not .zw? The same applies to all other so called zimbabwean sites zimsite.com, zakapressa.com. zimupdate are foreign registered. Such people are compelled to spend their $US and ?Sterling abroad in foreign companies and we think we are going to use Nepad to re-invest our money. Would it not be better if we participated directly ourselves.<p>Politics is politics and the economy is the economy. Political economy is the result of the relatinship between the two entities. Why does Mbeki want to take the long way round to African economic recovery. How long is it going to take to oust the Mugabes by way of Nepad if it takes of at all?
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/17/02 03:31 PM

it should be www.inkundla.mt or www.inkundla.md you know .Matabeleland.
Posted by: Qiniso

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/19/02 04:30 AM

I believe NEPAD and the African Union (with parliament, bank etc) will not succeed for various reasons. They are as follows...<p>-I agree with Bheki Khumalo, on one thing that African governments should not be paid to free their people, or to institute reforms.<p>-It would have been better to start NEPAD with a few countries that adhere and aspire to the principles set by this entity. Not this bambazonke, all can join. If one looks at how the EU started, countries had to qualify, politically and economicaly to join.<br>I believe Mbeki should have started NEPAD with the few countries (eg. Botswana, South Africa, "please help me here as I can not come up with any more democratic countries") that adhere to these principles, implement this NEPAD, open up the economy to the long disadvantaged black entrepeneurs, and let the experiment of NEPAD prove itself. Then slowly ( I hope) other countries would see the merits and would be encouraged and want to join this organization. Obviously they would have to first comply; be it by implementing democracy or safe guarding and respecting human rights, economic openeness, allowing their citizens to take part in the economy. Should the individual country pass the test it would be put on probation and then finally admitted as a member. That is the only way I see NEPAD or the African Union working. Otherwise its just a joke. I understand Kenya and Libya are among the countries to enforce policy - its just a mockery of the African peoples.<p>-I agree with you all as far as self determination and the artificial borders are concerned. I always find it funny when people say Ndebeles came to Zimbabwe from South Africa. These artificial boundaries are not nations and the sad part is that the African Union like its forerunner the OAU, still believes in respecting these colonial boundaries as part of its charter. They have to realize that nations are created to serve their peoples not the other way around. Until pre-colonial nations are re-established and respected, more money will be spent by Africa leaders trying to keep the artificial boundaries of these "empires" - (which are definitely not nations) intact and subjugated.<p><br>
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/20/02 08:41 AM

Qiniso<p>I thought the aid for NEPAD countries will be dependent on political reform and accountability!<p>If a country fails to meet those, then it excludes itself.<p>As a result many of these countries will not receive the aid!<p>The countries you mentioned are probably gonna be the ones that receive it!<p>I would add Ghana in that list! It is an emerging African democracy!
Posted by: Qiniso

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/20/02 07:24 PM

Then ONLY those countries you mentioned (South Africa, Botswana,etc ) should be involved in all the discussions, conferences and policy formulations on NEPAD. The others who are excluded by virtue of not adhering to these policies should not take part as their participation serves to dilute and corrupt these IDEALS. But instead you have Wade of Senegal, Obisanjo of Nigeria, the Islamist Gaddaffi and others at the forefront, yet we say their countries do not yet qualify. That is the problem. And because of this NEPAD will unfortunately fail.
Posted by: Msilawobe

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 07/21/02 06:05 PM

This is the reason why I have stated long back that these club of dictactors are the ones bent on wrecking it!<p>In that case, then I find fault in Thabo for allowing them to take part in all this!<p>But I think he knows for sure that they are gonna self exclude themselves through lack of political reform in their own backyards!<p>So they can not do anything about it except to make noise!<br>
Posted by: Potshoza

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 08/01/02 04:46 PM

Chief Nepad proponent does not think the general population should participate freely. Nepad is flawed...<p> <A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2164227.stm" TARGET=_blank>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2164227.stm</A>
Posted by: Bhekuzulu Khumalo

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 08/13/02 06:45 PM

Imbovane bayazama. They knoiw what must be done.<br> <A HREF="http://www.fingaz.co.zw/fingaz/2002/August/August8/2184.shtml" TARGET=_blank>http://www.fingaz.co.zw/fingaz/2002/August/August8/2184.shtml</A> <p>In Africa, Africans must be given prferance not Mugabes new friends. Local labour is used as much as possible. Outside contract for jobs that can not be done by Africans. Ndebeles first in Matabel;eland, Zimbabweans second. Well done lina laba Mahlabezulu. This is what we talk about African development.
Posted by: Thathani Ngwenya

Re: NEPAD G8 Conferance - 08/14/02 01:38 AM

All the same though. No Ndebele has US$1 000 000 000 for the project, I doubt they even have Z$ 1 000 000 000 to spend on the project. Therefore outsiders are needed. It really does not matter who. Malaysia, Japan, USA, Canada,. But they must be given a time period to run show. Ndebeles again must be allowed to purchase shares in the project. They must be allowed to participate. Ndebele engineers must do the feasibility study.