Inkundla
Posted By: Jazelindizayo Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/16/08 01:56 PM
Earlier this year the following thread was posted on this most august of sites
http://www.inkundla.net/ubbthreads7olde/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/36922#Post36922
Given the turn of events kwaMgodoyi, specifically the revival of Zapu with Dumiso Dabengwa at the helm, what say you lina be Mpisi and uzulu in general. Who is more of a man - Dabengwa who has raised his head above the parapet right in the midst of the lion's den or those whose claim to fame and fortune the touring of cyberstudios spouting a lot nkunzi-bulongwe? Who is more of a man Dabengwa who has seemingly revived Zapu in a matter of months or those that have toiled in cyberspace for eons but are only just beginning ukugaqa? Who is more of a man- Dabengwa who has stood the heat in the kitchen or those writting articles stuffed full of big but ultimately meaningless words. Indeed bayatsho abaziyo ukuthi whenever the educated and the elite start mouthing off big words to express small ideas it is time to get up and run - as far away as you possibly can in the other direction for you are about to be taken for a ride!!!
Posted By: Sibambamahawu Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/16/08 02:21 PM
Jazi i respect Mr Dr Dabengwa for his liberation credentials and for standing up to mgabe, but what we must never mislead ourselves with is the task at hand. Dabengwa is perpetuating the status quo and the MPC wants a total restructuring of the political landscape. According to Zim laws Dabengwa has not committed a treasonous offence, but MPC has, therefore it is being naive to even suggest that Mr Prof Fist of Fury Mugabe would treat the MPC as he would treat Dabengwa. There is nothing courageous that Dabengwa has done, but the MPC has. I am not an official of MPC but just a simple card carrying member and therefore my views are just my views. I respect the MPC more than i respect Dabengwa. Having experienced the kind of treatment on the hands of the zim goverment one would have hoped that Dabengwa has grown up and re-assessed the situation. What he is doing is simply called 'bullocks' he is taking people for granted, he is retrogressive and therefore the most dangerous man i have ever seen.
Posted By: JJMATSHETSHE Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/16/08 03:18 PM
Sibambamahawu.
Unjani mnuzane. Asiwuqhube umzabalazo muntu wakithi.

Sivumelana lawe word for word kulumbhalo wakho.

Njengoba sekuyi treason , what next; njengoba kufikwe kuyo kusaziwa ukuthi kuyiwa kuyo vele?
Posted By: Jazelindizayo Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/16/08 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by Sibambamahawu
Jazi i respect Mr Dr Dabengwa for his liberation credentials and for standing up to mgabe, but what we must never mislead ourselves with is the task at hand. Dabengwa is perpetuating the status quo and the MPC wants a total restructuring of the political landscape. According to Zim laws Dabengwa has not committed a treasonous offence, but MPC has, therefore it is being naive to even suggest that Mr Prof Fist of Fury Mugabe would treat the MPC as he would treat Dabengwa. There is nothing courageous that Dabengwa has done, but the MPC has. I am not an official of MPC but just a simple card carrying member and therefore my views are just my views. I respect the MPC more than i respect Dabengwa. Having experienced the kind of treatment on the hands of the zim goverment one would have hoped that Dabengwa has grown up and re-assessed the situation. What he is doing is simply called 'bullocks' he is taking people for granted, he is retrogressive and therefore the most dangerous man i have ever seen.

It is refreshing to learn that if one does not share your ideas then that renders that person retrogressive and dangerous.

Nonetheless who is more dangerous - a person who uses a people's name when the people he purports to serve have never heard of him?
Who is it that takes people for granted - those that write to the UN, SADCC, the AU in the name of a people to whom they are not willing to reveal themselves?

Who is more dangerous - he who launches a party in Bulawayo or he who chooses to launch his party with events straddling the globe but no where near Bulawayo?

Who is more dangerous - he who invites you to board the freedom train but whose train on close analysis has no wheels?

Who is it that is more dangerous - he who delights in commiting treasonous acts in cyberspace or he who is seemingly willing to walk the talk.Sometimes you have to laugh - iMpisi has called for a "velvet divorce" somewhere in the ether of cyberspace and that tantamounts to an act of treason? If iMpisi has committed a treasonous act by calling for independence can you tell us how it is they are going to register as a political party (as they claim in one of their websites) kwaMgodoyi? Moreover if indeed iMpisi has committed this treasonous act how are they going to enter into negotiations with the "Zimbabweans" Are the hyenas the first to call for an independent Mthwakazi? Why all this self aggrandisement from a party to date that has achieved nothing and by the looks of it will never achieve anything? Tell me again Sibambamahawu who is taking who for granted and for a ride on freedom train parked in a siding?
Posted By: JJMATSHETSHE Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/16/08 05:17 PM

Sibambamahawu mfowethu

Quote
Dabengwa has not committed a treasonous offence, but MPC has

Indonda iyayithi igadla ibhubesi ibe ibambe ihawu.

Manengi amaqhawe asiwaziyo aphume kuleyo 'treason' kumbe ngithi adalwe yikungena kuyo baphume. Amatreason charges ayakulolonga ubetough, and ma usukhethe ukukhokhela ,ikakhulu ku project enje, there is no room for ukunqikaza. Kunqikazwani?
Posted By: Sibambamahawu Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/16/08 06:27 PM
JJMatshetshe, ngiyakuzwa kahle kakhulu, kwazise phela vele angiwathi mbibi amponjwana, umqondo uhlala uvulekile njalo nje. Kunqikwazani, uyabuza wena wasesikhosini. Mina lona kaWoyane angikhumbuli ngisithi ngiyawavuna amagwala, angikhumbuli ngigqugquzela ukuhudulwa kwezinyawo. Kodwa noma kunjalo kumele siqikelele ekutheni asiziphonsi eweni ngokugijima ngesikhulu isivivini sizesehluleke ukuqobosha. Inkinga engiyibonayo thina sithanda ukuma eceleni, sithi sizoyigibela isihamba. Kuhle ukuhlaziya nokuhlola utho ngaphambi kokuzibandakanya ngokugcwele, kodwa uma lokuthi kuhlola sekuyizaba lokungazibandakanyi emzabalazweni then kudingakala ukuthi, siyubele muva sibhekisise lapho esibuya khona nalapho esifuna ukuya khona. Mina luqobo lwami ngiyasuthiseka ngemizamo yeMPC, njalo isivinini ehamba ngaso angisisole kangako.
Posted By: Babugagashi Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/16/08 07:06 PM
Quote
There is nothing courageous that Dabengwa has done, but the MPC has.

There is absolutely nothing courageous that this cyberspace social club for day dreamers called MPC has done. Besides being a home for "some" day dreamers to keep their hallucinations alive, MPC has really done nothing for the real Mthwakazi people who are suffering under inja umgabe in Zimbabwe. They have been claiming online to represent uMthwakazi for close to 3 years now, if not more, but nobody has seen them khonale enjeni. UDabengwa aze abe ngcono, at least uphumele etshatshalazini abantu bambona. If people believe in what he stands for and they give him the mandate, who knows how far he can go.

Ukulwela uzibuse kaMthwakazi needs much more than just a good typist sitting on the computer in the comfort of their home somewhere overseas and claiming to have the mandate to represent abantu. It needs real men with b***s that are prepared to come out in the open and announce themselves to the masses khonale eZimbabwe.

Ng'khulumile ng'qedile
Posted By: JJMATSHETSHE Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/16/08 07:11 PM
Sibambamahawu mfowethu.

Siyezwana, ayixabene; khepha siyakhuthazana. Njengomlandeli we MPC ngethembele insindiso yabantu bakithi abantulayo kuyo kakhulu. Ma ngibheka isimo abakuso inhliziyo yami iyajabha,ngoba lekusasa yabo ayicaci.Imibono yami lokucela i speed is informed by nothing other than isimo esiseKhaya namhlanje.Kulomkhosi omkhulu okufanele i MPC uwuhlabe isenzela abantu bakithi, otherwise siyothola sebadluliselwa ngamanqe. Pho izobe iphi inkululeko? Not long ago sike sakubona kwezinye izizwe eAfrika amanqe ehahabela ingane elambileyo umphefulo ungakaphumi. Lathi we are not immune, kambe vele ngubani owayecabanga ukuthi sizofika kulesisimo esikuso? Ngoba nje sakhula sizilimela. My assumption is that all the steps have been calculated including isivinini, ngokunjalo ngiyacela ngikhuleka kuThixo ukuthi alethe inhlakanipho kithi, kekuhlolisiswe kancane mhlawumbe there is room to maneuver kuzinqumo ezibekwe ekuqaleni.

Kusobala kuwe kaWoyane ukuthi kunengi engingakwaziyo , so lapha ngikhuluma ngenhliziyo.
Posted By: mg_d Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/16/08 08:26 PM
enkundleni ngikhulekile Mthwakazi, first gents ithink who lestined to Zwangendaba on satarday he made it clearly that MPC is not a political party but a political movement.
as for uDabengwa yena i think is one of those who failed ku zanu just like uJona, imvuselelo yakhe ye zapu its nothing bu t just to gain ipopurlarity yokuthi laye wake wamisana lomgabedoyi uzahamba ayerobha zona zalukazi emakhaya le and wena jazi you must know ukuthi kuMPC we do not compare ourselves with anybody because not in a competition with anybody the strategies of the MPC are not the same with zapu ungaqathanisi izinto ezimbili ezingafaniyo we don`t want the country we want our freedom kuphela.lingakhohlwa ukuthi udabengwa lo nguye owayethi abafazi batshaye amadoda nxa ebahlukumeza emakhaya do you think he is the kind of a person who can rule the country.to me he is nothing but a failure and he is only trying to revive himself not zapu.
Posted By: mfo_ka_m Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/17/08 08:25 AM
UDabengwa yindoda emadodeni, Iqhawe lamaqhawe, elimkantsho ubomvu... hambani liyebuza oPeter Halls nxa lifuna ukwazisisa kahle ngalamajaha uDumiso lo Lookout. Mina ngemibono yami engingaphikiyo ukuthi ingabe imifitshane ngithi Uhlupho ezimbabwe kusukela kusungulwa impi against umgabe, yikuthi labo abamlwisayo basuka bakhuthe amatargets and fire at each other, discourage each other and therefore become ineffective. I will give examples:
1. MDC- They were together since the party was formed collectively firing shots at mugabe but as time went by they started to miss the targets... Tshwankilayi shot at Gibson and vice versa. and hence left mgabe to consolidate his position while they killed each other

2. Zimbabweans in general-- They have complained and cried ukuthi Mbeki, south sfrica should remove mgabe, yet they go back and vote for the same mgabe since 2000. You would think that mgabe will get 100 votes and the opposition a billion so whats that. They are prepared and ready to accuse and fire shots at mbeki, sa while leaving mgabe untouched

3. Quet Diplomacy-- people have been so willing to fire shots at quiet diplomacy and the mediator and sadc but do nothing and very little to mgabe. and so far we have seen that quiet diplomacy and mbeki (sadc) are the only ones who have achieved some kind of positive results.

4. Right now Morgan Tshwankilayi is no longer willing to continue Talks if Mbeki is present but doesnt mind continuing talks if "mgabe is present". once again missing the real targets. If he had said "I cant continue with talks if mgabe is present", "I can only talk to MDC Gibson, and other opposition parties" i would be with him. but he has missed the target.

5. MPC now will have to discourage and ukusola uDabengwa, hence leave the real target.. or add a target to its target list. akuxotshwa mpalambili ngasikhathi sinye bakwethu.

Finally, UDabengwa did the right thing by leaving zanu to revive zapu.... he is a Zapu cadre and by reviving Zapu he is shooting the right target. If there is a biggest threat to mgabe its The Revival of ZAPU... mgabe knows the implications thereof.

MPC is 100% ok, Dabengwa/zapu is 100% ok, they are all liberation heros for abantu bakithi. ngakho stop firing at each other fire the real target... Do like zipra + zanla firing at Smith but one from zambia and the other from mazambique then you will win the battle. otherwise mgabe will do more to keep you guys concentrating on dabengwa and leave him untouched.
Posted By: Mthakathi27 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/17/08 08:49 AM
Quote
o like zipra + zanla firing at Smith but one from zambia and the other from mazambique then you will win the battle.
IZIPRA leZANLA bekuyingwe lenja, bekungabonani. Esigabeni sakithi babedubulana, okuhle yikuthi izipra ibe ihlonipha izakhimizi.
Ok, eyes back on the ball, useyini lamhlanje uDabengwa, ngumbuzo obuzwe nguJazi lowu. Mina ngithi uDabengwa ubevele eyini ekuqaleni. uDabengwa yindoda emadodeni leyana, iMPC yimpisi ehamba ebusuku. MPC will never see the light of the day, it is still born. ZAPU is going to reclaim its constituency of Mat and Midlands. Kimi lokhu akutsho ukuthi uDabengwa uletha into engcono kuleyeMPC, kodwa kuchaza ukuthi ulethela abantu something, abantu balula ukukhohliseka, kwesinye isiskhathi akudingakali ukuthi uze ubakhohlise, bona bayazikhohlisa ukuze bahambisane lesimo. Sebeqalile vele abantu ukuzikhohlisa ngokuthi lokhu okwenziwa nguDabengwa might culminate into a big thing, or into what they have always hoped for. Kunjalo asikhumbuleni ukuthi abantu benza ngokufanayo kuMDC, bethi asihlanganeni sikhiphe uMgabe kuzathi singamkhipha besesisenza okwethu. I have always oppossed this warped way of thinking.
Posted By: mfo_ka_m Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/17/08 11:25 AM
nGIYAKUZWA mthakathi, kakhulu umcijo wakho wokuthi "abantu balula ukukhohlisa" njalo kwesinye iskhathi bayakhohliseka bodwa ngeminakano yabo bengakhaohliswanga ngumuntu...
Kodwa ke mthakathi wakwethu ngithi mina IPOLITICS IVELE SIBI SAYO NGEKE UYIHLUKANISE LOBUKHOHLISI... ANGAZI MHLAWUMBE NGIZAZWAKALA... ONKE AMAPOLITICIANS ANGABAKHOHLISI.
ungabona ulandela iPolitics or politicians allowing yourself to believe ukuthi he or she is TELLING THE TRUTH ALL THE TIME then something wrong ngoba uyabe uyazikhohlisa wena mathupha.that is the nature of politics

kodwake izinto engizibona zimqoka ekukhohliseni kwe politics yilezi:
1. iMPC seeks liberation of Matabele from mgabe
2. izapu/dabengwa seeks liberation of the same matabele
3. iMpc ikhala ngemarginalisation yabantu bakithi
4. izapu/dabengwa ikhala ngemarginalisation yabantu bakithi

phoke ukuthi mina ngithi iMPC ayikhohlisi kumbe udabengwa kakhohlisi ngingabe ngiyazikhohlisa kakhulu. Into engiyithandayo nje yikuthi ABANGIKHOHLISE KODWA BAACHIEVE THE ABOVE KEY RESULTS.

I AM TIRED OF UKUKHOHLISWA NGOMGABE.

Phela
Posted By: JJMATSHETSHE Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/17/08 12:47 PM
Quote
Zwangendaba on satarday he made it clearly that MPC is not a political party but a political movement.

MG sihlobo .

Ngabe uvuka njani namhlanje.

Njengabalandeli be MPC, lathi besimlalele uZwangendaba kuShayaFM mhlaka 13/12/2008 khona nje be kulama interjections amanengi kungenzakala ukuthi kukhona esikukhuthileyo.

MPC(political movement)/MPC(political party) sounds like political jargon to political novices like some of us.What are the fundermental differences and their significance thereof? What are the practical limitations with regard to driving the Mthwakazi state agenda at this stage?.

With all these noble ideas zeMPC, sithi phambili nge MPC kukho konke ,kodwa ukungabikho kwayo ebantwini bakaMthwakazi ekuhluphekeni kangaka kungumqhumuzo kithi.

Njengamanje, ixakelene nje imigodoyi ,ukuthi iyoxakululwa xesha liphi kwazi uThixo.

Akuyiwa nganxanye kungesimanzi.

Singabakini.
Posted By: Jazelindizayo Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/17/08 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by mg_d
enkundleni ngikhulekile Mthwakazi, first gents ithink who lestined to Zwangendaba on satarday he made it clearly that MPC is not a political party but a political movement.
as for uDabengwa yena i think is one of those who failed ku zanu just like uJona, imvuselelo yakhe ye zapu its nothing bu t just to gain ipopurlarity yokuthi laye wake wamisana lomgabedoyi uzahamba ayerobha zona zalukazi emakhaya le and wena jazi you must know ukuthi kuMPC we do not compare ourselves with anybody because not in a competition with anybody the strategies of the MPC are not the same with zapu ungaqathanisi izinto ezimbili ezingafaniyo we don`t want the country we want our freedom kuphela.lingakhohlwa ukuthi udabengwa lo nguye owayethi abafazi batshaye amadoda nxa ebahlukumeza emakhaya do you think he is the kind of a person who can rule the country.to me he is nothing but a failure and he is only trying to revive himself not zapu.

There are so many things that are refreshing these days- it is again refreshing to learn that the Hyenas have a strategy. Standing on the outside looking in one could have easily been fooled to thinking that the strategy of Mpisi was not to have a strategy !! Let the truth be told - aside from touring cyberstudios like Shaya FM, sw Radio and other obscure radio stations how does this Mpisi propose to get independence from Zimbabwe? There is a tendency to always obsfucate issues - lamhla sekuthiwa iMPC is not a political party but a political movement - who the fCuk (excuse my french!) gives a damn when people are supposedto be suffering from the yoke of oppression?
Posted By: Kirth_Dube Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/18/08 12:19 AM
Bahlonitshwa,

Nanku umbuzo. Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini?
Impendulo: Ulokhe enguDabengwa.

The difference between MPC and all other so called liberators of Mthwakazi is that this movement seeks to unite uwonke wonke kamthwakazi with an objective to create an independent state of Umthwakazi. Kukanti iZAPU ifuna umbuso weZimbawe yonke.

Back to the subject topic Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini?izolo ubenguDabengwa esebenza engaphansi kukaMasuku oyilo leliya qhawe elabulawa ngumgabe. UDabengwa ulokhu enguyena lowo owathi emva kokukhululwa ngumgabe entolongweni emvakokuba iZAPU yenze isivumelwano leZANU PF waba lilunga eliphezulu laleloBandla. Ulokhu enguye owasithembisa ngeMatebeleland Zambezi water project lalamhlanje intombi sezaze zabayizalukazi zilindile. UmfokaDabengwa ulokhu eyilo leliyaqhawe likaMthwakazi elingazangelenze lutho ukusiza amabhizimisi akobulawayo etshintshelwa eHalale. UDabengwa ulokhu enguye lowa owadliwa kumavoti enkulumane emele iZANU. Lamhlanje uDabengwa esimaziyo uhlangane labanye bavuselela iZAPU, IPUZA iparty kaMthwakazi esazalwa siyilandela singayehlukanisi lakancane ukuyithanda leHighlanders bosso tshilamoyo. iZAPU kasiyo kaDabengwa ngekaMthwakazi njalo uwonke wonke kaMthwakazi ulelungelo lokuyilandela ngoba yona ivele ingeyakithi.

iMPC kayikaze ibambane lebandla lezitha iZANU, kanye labakhokheli bayo kabakaze babelezikhundla kuZANU PF. Amalunga weMPC kawakaze lelilodwa bathembise uMthwakazi ukuba bafuna ukubusa iZimbabwe. iMPC yona ifuna uzibuse kaMthwakazi lokuthi iZimbabwe izimele yodwa.UMthwakazi People's Convention uthi wonke amabandla,amaqembu,inhlanganiso labantu bakaMthwakazi abafuna ukuzibusa baqoqane ngaphansi kogatsha olulodwa bakhulule uMthwakazi. An individual is not important to MPC than the collective effort of our people. iZapu njengamanye amaqembu yasithembisa ukuba iyazijabulela incwadi zethu ikakhulu iVELVET DIVORCE doc. Njengamanje iMPC iyaqhubeka ngomsebenzi omnkhulu wokuqoqa wonke uMthwakazi ukuze sifeze lowomsebenzi.

Kulabo abakhononayo ngithi lingalahlithemba majaha akithi ngoba esintwini thina isiko lemzini kasililandeli ngoba lilizilo. Ngeke sibe ngothathawese imota zasezizweni ngoba uzibani uthi senze njengokubona kwakhe. We are very organised and siyazi ukuthi senzani. Siyalinxusa lonke ngobunengi benu ukuze lize lizoncedisa ukwakha lumsebenzi.

By the way on the subject of Dabengwa, UMthwakazi must hold themselves with pride ngoba siyisizwe esilesineke, esilozwelo lenhlonipho. Siyakwazi ukuxolela abantu bakithi. Abantu have given uDabengwa a second chance njalo kasozithutha, I hope he realises that. On the issue of MPC ekhaya. Sikhona kakhulu ekhaya, egoli laseBotswana lakanye kuZAPU lezinye zezinhlanganiso elizaziyo engingeke ngaziqamba ngamabizo okwamanje njengoba uMgabe eseqale ukuthumba abantu. IMPC is not a coward yokuthi ishiye abantu bayo egcekeni lina likwazi ukuthi umgabe can send his pack of hynas ngesiqubu. That time yokuthi sithi bhadla ekhaya siyeza bafowethu sinikezeni ithuba akusinsuku zingaki. Abalamehlo ngezepolitiki mhlawumbe bangalazisa ukuba ngeke nje uwele empisini ungela okokuzivikela, kumele uthi ulingena igusu usazi ukuthi lawe uzithembile. Yikho ngithi abalamehlo kababone ukuba iZAPU is not competing leMPC, njalo iMPC kayilwisi iZAPU kodwa sisonke entweni eyodwa.Umsebenzi esiwenzayo uzakhulula abantu bakithi kungelamuntu ozayethusela omunye wethu.
Posted By: JJMATSHETSHE Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/18/08 01:11 AM

N G E L E T H U ! ! ! KaMthembo.
Posted By: mg_d Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/18/08 04:22 AM
ojazi basafunani BAQEQEBULE SIQOQOQDO SASEMAQAQENI
Posted By: JJMATSHETSHE Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/18/08 03:31 PM
Sonke thina esindiza kumacyberspace with our precious time and effort ,sigxeka kumbe sincoma iMPC ,sibonisa ukuthi i MPC is a force worth noticing. This is with obvious strong annoyance to others who can not resist their cyberspace preoccupation yokuyithela ngamasaladi njalonje.Asazi kumbe ikhona imbadalo abayikhokhelwayo foro umsebenzi ongaka. Nxa kulabakhokhayo lakho kuyatsho ukuthi kukhona abakubonayo kuyo. Kakuyiqinise ke i MPC ma igxekwa ngoba kuyatsho ukuti kukhona okukhona ngayo for somebody to worst his precious resources kuyo, instead ukuthi azenzele okulobubelo empilweni yakhe. Kuyafana labancomayo, kabakhuthazeke yilokho abe MPC.

Sisonke kumacyberspace bantu and liMPC esiyifumene lapha kucyberspace is obviously addressing our needs kithi sonke, obviously amanye ngawenzondo.Kwabanye izondo is a strong need, okufanele i neswe njalonje for them to thrive. Thus why kuqhutshekwa ngalemibhalo kucyberspace.
Posted By: iBoyz yezkweyeni Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/19/08 09:22 AM
Haa majida, uDabengwa useyenze i 'great escape' la. Undoda lo udle imali zabantu abazithela enkonxeni besithi izayakwakha i pipe yamanzi we Zambezi. Uthini ngalokhu uDabengwa?

Kahlale phansi mani adle imali yakhe angaphambanisi umvuselelo we sizwe sakithi.
Posted By: Jazelindizayo Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/19/08 10:11 AM
In 1964 in the Rivonia trial Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela stood up and said words to the effect that he had ideals that he was prepared to die for. Two score and four years later there exists an organisation whose leaders believe so much in their ideals that they are not prepared to lay down their lives in order to achieve them! An independent Mthwakazi is apparently so worth living for that none of its leaders or supporters are prepared to lay down their lives in order to achieve it!!!!!What a contrast and how so sad ? is this what Mthwakazi has come to? Never were the words that a hot raging fire begets a cold impotent ash more apt!! I remember in 1980 at the terminus eLuveve where people thronged in their tens ? nay hundreds perhaps even thousands to catch buses that has been laid on so that they could travel to Salisbury to meet the returning Joshua Mqabuko Nkomo in preparation for the then forthcoming elections. One of the songs they sang to this day makes the hairs at the back of my neck stand.

Thuma mina
Thuma mina Nkomo
Thuma mina ngiyefeli sizwe
(Isizwe seZimbabwe okhalelayo)
Thuma mina Thuma mina Nkomo??.

Here were a people stating that the freedom that they so desired was one that they were prepared to die for! Roll on nearly thirty years later the denizens of Mpisi are brazenly telling us that bona they cherish freedom so much that they are not prepared to lay down their lives in order that they achieve their goals. Perhaps this is the innovation that they were at pains to lecture us about no so long ago. How else can you explain the somewhat convoluted and labyrinthine post above by the honourable gentleman from iMpisi? This response (above by umhlonitshwa uKirth Dube) epitomises what is fundamentally wrong nge Mpisi. He claims that iMPC has a presence kwaMthwakazi but ultimately they are AFRAID to come out into the open on pain of being abducted by the geriatric?s evil secret police. How credible are these claims? Is the MPC so important and or significant to warrant attention from state agents?

The question is why does the MPC see the need to continuously and perennially elevate itself to stratospheric levels of importance? The high regard with which the MPC clearly holds itself just oozes from the post above. This blatant self regard (or in the parlance of intsha yalamuhla bayazifonela) bordering on unbridled arrogance is, at best, unedifying and at worst nauseating .The list grows longer by the day ? first it was that they were the fist to talk of the independence of Mthwakazi, then that was followed by statements to the effect that they waiting for Zimbabweans to organise themselves prior revealing who their leaders are. Then way back in September there was no launch in South Africa because of the so-called difficult transition there as if the launch of the MPC mattered one jot to the ordinary South African! In the same month of September we were told that the MPC was going to register as a political party in Zimbabwe. Now we are being told that the leaders/ members of the MPC dare not raise their head above the parapet kwaMgodoyi because Mugabe?s death squads are about! In so far as I know the politically party that has been most affected by these death squads is the MDC with whom the geriatric is locked in stalemate about power sharing and governance. I stand corrected but to my knowledge there has been no other political party whose members have been targeted or affected. Thus the leaders and members of PUMA, the FDU and the newly formed Zapu are relatively free to go about their business but those of the MPC must remain in hiding! The question that begs to be asked is what has the MPC achieved that elevates them over and above all these afore mentioned parties to the status of Zanu-PF enemy no 1? This is an organisation that chose for whatever reasons not to participate in the elections of March 2008. An organisation that does not have a single elected official at any level of the elected officials kwaMgodoyi but that nonetheless regards itself as a force to reckoned with. Given the MPC ?s current level of (dis) organisation, is the MPC in its current guise a threat to Zanu-pf in the short or medium term future? One would be forced to conclude that currently and in the foreseeable future the MPC is not a threat to Zanu despite the bombastic claims made by the MPC of having changed the face of Zimbabwean politics. Frankly how can you change politics when you exist in a state of suspended animation in fear of what lurks in the long shadows? Presently iMpisi is all bark and no bite a paper tiger no less.

The velvet divorce that there are so seemingly ever so proud of would not be worth the paper it would be printed on. Conceptually, the notion of a velvet divorce is an appealing one but practically is one that is so far removed from reality that you have to wonder about the sanity of those pushing it with the zeal that we see. On close scrutiny this concept is, if you will excuse for my French, a whole load of bollocks for reasons explained below. Firstly, iMpisi says that they will negotiate not fight their way out of Zimbabwe. Fair enough how noble of them but in the post above it is made clear that they are afraid to operate openly in Zimbabwe on pain of death from the authorities. Given that in the short to medium term the Mugabe cabal would remain entrenched in Harare how is the MPC going to enter into negotiations with people whom, by their own admission, they are afraid of or is it that negotiations are not pencilled in for the short to medium term?
Jokes aside, this strategy of negotiation can only work under one of two scenarios;

a) Zimbabwe has a democratic dispensation and the government of the day feels duty bound to listen to the wishes of the people not just of Matebeleland but Zimbabwe as whole and do as they (the people) wish. If and when the MPC has a mandate at that time from the people of Matebeleland then negotiations will take place and Mthwakazi will be delivered.
b) The government of the day is forced/coaxed to the table of negotiation.

In any negotiations there is either a carrot and or a stick that brings the two parties together. This holds true from a simple act of a boy courting a girl to more complex scenarios such as the negotiations that took place between the two MDCs and Zanu ? the carrot for Zanu was being legitimisation in the eyes of the world while for the two MDC the lure of power would be the carrot. History is full many examples where this carrot and or stick are a necessity for any negotiations. Now applying the same principle to the matter at hand, what carrot and or stick does iMpisi have to bring the government of Zimbabwe (of the day) to the table of negotiations? I derive little pleasure in stating that iMpisi has neither carrot nor stick to force anyone to the table of negotiations. And this is where the whole edifice falls flat on its monkey face ? they cannot and will not be a velvet divorce unless and until either one of the two scenarios described above prevail. Scenario one is along way away ? it requires a politically maturity hitherto unseen in that blighted country (let alone continent). Sadly, as a people we remain politically immature and na?ve ? how else can you explain the so-called African solution to the current crisis gripping Zimbabwe? A solution that comprises of doing nothing while Zimbabwe burns. But I digress???.The truth is that scenario one is not an option in the short, or medium term. This then leaves scenario two, which as already alluded to, is not a viable option on account of the lack of a carrot and or stick in the hands of the MPC. However, the Kirths of this world would have you believe that they have a cunning plan which akin to a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they will whip out at a time, in space and a place of their own choosing! Every fool and his mother (except those of the MPC) knows that if Mthwakazi is to become free, given the prevailing circumstances, that there will be no jaw jaw without war. And if the MPC has ruled out war as an option for achieving independence then one is forced to conclude that they are bigger fools that first imagined.
Posted By: Mthakathi27 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/19/08 01:27 PM
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Two score and four years later there exists an organisation whose leaders believe so much in their ideals that they are not prepared to lay down their lives in order to achieve them! An independent Mthwakazi is apparently so worth living for that none of its leaders or supporters are prepared to lay down their lives in order to achieve it!!!!!What a contrast and how so sad ? is this what Mthwakazi has come to?

When i read Kirth Dube's response i could not believe what i was reading, but it vindicated my position regarding the MPC leadership. I have always said that the MPC leadership is a bunch of hopeless and helpless cowards. We have always said that the reasons for the MPC's leadership invisibility borders on cowardice and many doubted that and even accussed some of us being senselessly against the MPC. These are the people who can not distinguish between the MPC's as an organisation, which by right has to be a juristic person, independent from its members and leaders; and its leadership, to me there is a great difference between MPC as an organisation and its leaders. I stand for what the MPC as an organisation stands for, but i despise its leadership, i think they are a bunch of fools. I believe that the MPC has a noble agenda but bereft of strategies. They can't understand why many Mthwakazi people who know about them can not join the organisation. Let me help them out today, if tomorrow they come back with this visionless leadership they should not blame anyone; the sole reason why the people would not join the MPC is its leadership which operates from the shadows. The only leader we know of is Zwangendaba and i do respect him, i have called for him to take the leadership reigns, of late we have heard of Kirth Dube, i respect him as well, but who knows whether this Kirth is his actual name. We have been confused by concurrently given two different names of the so called, self-styled and self-appointed MPC president as Ndabenhle Shamase and as Edwin Mkhwananzi. Which is which? This is foolish to say the least.



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Here were a people stating that the freedom that they so desired was one that they were prepared to die for! Roll on nearly thirty years later the denizens of Mpisi are brazenly telling us that bona they cherish freedom so much that they are not prepared to lay down their lives in order that they achieve their goals.

Any freedom which people are not prepared to pay the ultimate sacrifice for is not even dreaming about.


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He claims that iMPC has a presence kwaMthwakazi but ultimately they are AFRAID to come out into the open on pain of being abducted by the geriatric?s evil secret police. How credible are these claims? Is the MPC so important and or significant to warrant attention from state agents?

On this one i am not sure, but i would like to believe that the presence of MPC would attract the state agents more than of any political formation in zimbabwe. Regardless of their insignificance or significance, what they stand for is the biggest threat to the government and country of zimbabwe. I am sure that the leaders of MPC knew about this and therefore were and are still prepared for the consequences. Mugabe and his "cabal" to borrow your word, would not let the MPC ideology take root unchallenged, i am sure that they would do anything to disturb and destabilise it, including abductions and a lot more. Having said that i believe that that does not have to be a reason of not coming out into the open. The MPC has been around for something like 5 years or so.

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Then way back in September there was no launch in South Africa because of the so-called difficult transition there as if the launch of the MPC mattered one jot to the ordinary South African! In the same month of September we were told that the MPC was going to register as a political party in Zimbabwe. Now we are being told that the leaders/ members of the MPC dare not raise their head above the parapet kwaMgodoyi because Mugabe?s death squads are about!
Mthakathi usually call these kind of excuses masturbatory excuses, i mean the reason of not launching in SA in september. Recently i have been hearing something very disturbing, this development is indeed the mother of all smoke-screens, we have been subjected to this notion that MPC is not a political party but a political movement in isiNdebele kimi lokhu kuyafana, liqembu, inhlanganiso yezombusazwe, this excuse is given as the cause for the invisibility of the MPC, we are told that it is still consulting and it will then morphosise into a political party, i think at this stage that is when the leaders would come alive and come to the open. What we must remember is that the ANC was/is a movement, the MDC is a movement, but this does not stop them doing what political parties do, that is jostling for power.

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Thus the leaders and members of PUMA, the FDU and the newly formed Zapu are relatively free to go about their business but those of the MPC must remain in hiding! The question that begs to be asked is what has the MPC achieved that elevates them over and above all these afore mentioned parties to the status of Zanu-PF enemy no 1?
The MPC has done nothing special, but i believe that they would make special targets for the gov of zimbabwe. What the MPC stands distinguishes them from the rest and that is a dangerous ground.

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This is an organisation that chose for whatever reasons not to participate in the elections of March 2008.


I absolutely see no reason for the MPC to participate in any election in Zimbabwe. I think the only election that the MPC should take part in in zimbabwe is a referendum, where uMthwakazi would be given an opportunity to say whether to stay as zimbabweans or secede and form our own independent state.

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The velvet divorce that there are so seemingly ever so proud of would not be worth the paper it would be printed on. Conceptually, the notion of a velvet divorce is an appealing one but practically is one that is so far removed from reality that you have to wonder about the sanity of those pushing it with the zeal that we see. On close scrutiny this concept is, if you will excuse for my French, a whole load of bollocks for reasons explained below. Firstly, iMpisi says that they will negotiate not fight their way out of Zimbabwe.

I applaud the MPC for pushing for a velvet divorce, but i asure that at the back of their minds they know the truth and they are aware that Zimbabwe or Africa in general is not politically mature enough for this kind of strategy. But on tactical level and for mobilisation purposes this concept will serve its purpose. If the MPC genuinely thinks that this strategy is the one that will bring about the independence of Mthwakazi, then i am not going to disagree with in questioning their sanity. having said that i am sure that at this time that we live in we must not be seen as war-mongers, therefore in is wise to first persue peaceful and political processes, even if you are busy planning for war, you can not publicly advertise such strategy. the MPC in one of their statement stated that they will defend UMthwakazi if attacked, how can one defend a nation if necessary preparations are not made? This tells me that they are aware of what could happen in the long run.

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However, the Kirths of this world would have you believe that they have a cunning plan which akin to a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they will whip out at a time, in space and a place of their own choosing! Every fool and his mother (except those of the MPC) knows that if Mthwakazi is to become free, given the prevailing circumstances, that there will be no jaw jaw without war. And if the MPC has ruled out war as an option for achieving independence then one is forced to conclude that they are bigger fools that first imagined.


As i said i think they are very aware of this.
Posted By: Bullet_Success Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/19/08 03:14 PM
Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - HE IS OUR HERO.
Posted By: mg_d Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/19/08 06:06 PM
mthakathi take us out of misery kabob because you seem to underestimate iMPC kanti pho uthi kwenziwe njani mfowethu njengoba ugxeka ungafaki izeluleko and bro mind calling other people fools because this might come back to you ayingaxabani bafowethu ukubonisana is the best way of going forward mina ngithi maybe wena you do have abetter suggestion that might help the MPC and all the Mthwakazian people. ngeke kulunge ukuthi sithi sisazama ukuphakama sihle siqale ngokungathembani singakabhekani lesitha.
Posted By: abedabuko Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/19/08 09:08 PM
Sani bona kamthwakazi, bafethu umgabe ufuna iziqholo zase tsholotsholo,usuthi ngommbuso, manje bafethu masibambaneni, sakhe
iqembulethu.Isikhathi siyavuma,lina elise zizweni zabamhlophe elino lwazi kakhulu sebenzisani ulwazi lwenu ukuqoqa abantu, emphakathini,abantu bakamthwakazi isifo sabo yiku vilapha, novalo.Musani ukuvilapha sukumani izizwe zinibone.Asihlanganeni
ngendawo ngendawo, masi tshele bonke abanku ngomkhosi, masi fundise abangana lwazi, masi mbale kuzonke izizwe siqoqe bonke abafethu bazi nge simo sethu kabazi.Ngine themba sizo hlaba umkhosi besize bonke abantu bakithi ngendawo ngedawo, amatshona ahlabile umkhosi, nathi masi hlabe owethu ukhosi, asakhethi indawo zethu, eNkayi-eLupane-Tsholotsho-Matobo
Posted By: Kirth_Dube Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/19/08 09:17 PM
MPC?s COMMENTS ON ?JAZELINDIZAYO?S CONTRIBUTION

MPC welcomes the contribution made by ?Jazelindizayo?, a contributor to the Inkundla forum regarding MPC and Mr Dabengwa. We welcome the debate that ?Jazelindizayo?s? contribution has generated. In MPC we are the first to encourage and defend free debate. We are grateful to ?Jazelindizayo? for the publicity he has given MPC in this instance.

We must however go further and say, as MPC, we think ?Jazelindizayo?s contribution is more significant for what it does not state and is decidedly silent on. Unfortunately, we think most of the responses to ?Jazelindizayo?, whether in support of MPC or Mr Dabengwa or criticising either or both, and whether well-intended or not, have missed the point. We think the contributions need to go below the surface.

MPC will do that.

The unravelling political situation in Zimbabwe is a serious headache to the system in Harare, all the more so now when Mr Dabengwa is ?formally? outside it. The system?s distrust of Mr Dabengwa is public knowledge. The political ramifications of Mr Dabengwa?s formal departure from Zanu-PF, in the context of groups such as MPC, is of serious concern to the system, bar all pretensions to the contrary. The system has to act, and it is. We believe ?Jazelindizayo?s contribution cannot escape this suspicion when it seeks to pit two formations that are trying to dismantle the system of political oppression in Zimbabwe. Criticism is one thing but pitting people against each other is quite another. We see the shadowy hands of an agent provocateur.

If ?Jazelindizayo?s? contribution was ?innocent? then it displays reckless judgment.

When MPC took issue with Mr Dabengwa over his involvement with Mavambo/Kusile, it was purely for reasons of principle, namely; that his involvement then, and in the manner it was done, was a perpetuation of Zanu-PF?s policy of politically dominating uMthwakazi, in yet another political formation. We already see it in Zanu-PF itself, MDC-T and MDC-M. We were concerned things would end up the way they have, with Mr Dabengwa and all Mthwakazians previously involved in that project, leaving. We were concerned about the political implications of all that on all Mthwakazians previously engaged in that project.

It is as if we were prophetic.

Mr Dabengwa is out of Zanu-PF and out of Mavambo/ Kusile. He is, as is widely reported, now leading the revived ZAPU. From MPC?s point of view, with his departure from Zanu-PF and Mavambo/Kusile, Mr Dabengwa has now corrected that point of principle, whether his position conflicts with or is in agreement with MPC.

Our point is and will remain that any Zimbabwean of whatever colour, creed or background can and must be free to contest for political office or senior leadership of a party without first checking that they meet the tribal criteria to lead set in motion by Zanu-PF, namely; whether they are Shona, again, something we continue to see in Zanu-PF, in both formations of the MDC, the now defunct Mavambo/Kusile and a whole litany of civic and other organizations in Zimbabwe. We are sure Mr Dabengwa would agree with MPC on the need to discard that mischievous idea and that the only way to stop it is to stop it. We think this time Mr Dabengwa has. In that, we don?t see Mr Dabengwa; we see ZAPU standing up for principle.

But MPC is not here to discuss a personality. We make this statement conscious of the fact that we are mentioning Mr Dabengwa by name and that we have not given him prior notice of that. It is not our intention but it is unavoidable. For that, we offer our apology to him. But we think the political principle we are standing up for here is something Mr Dabengwa will feel we need to respond to immediately and that he will excuse our indiscretion on this occasion. We also mention Mr Dabengwa by name only on the full understanding that he will be free, should he choose to do so, to name any of MPC?s officers by name.

At the risk of patronising him, we are sure that Mr Dabengwa is bigger than this mischievous project. He will perhaps know as we do, that this project is directed at Mthwakazi, not at him personally or MPC as a movement or personalities in it.

Back to the unexpressed purpose of Jazelindizayo?s contribution, it is clear that the choice of Mr Dabengwa is deliberate. Mr Dabengwa is an emotive issue in Mthwakazi. We think ?Jazelindizayo?s? contribution is a pre-emptive strike to try and drive a wedge, politically, between MPC and ZAPU ahead of time. We also think it is a distraction. While we slog it out, as our contributors are already doing, we have all lost focus and are throwing toys at each other like children while the serious business of political sabotage goes on right underneath our noses. We think all Mthwakazians must relent and let this mischief die the sure natural death it will.

The apparent admiration of Mr Dabengwa and the denigration of MPC is just the surface. The real significance of ?Jazelindizayo?s? contribution is below that surface. The ?civil war? that this latest swipe at Mthwakazi is trying to ignite is a damp squib. Mthwakazi, there you have it!

We warn: there will be many such spanners thrown into the works from time to time, as they have in the past, whether to test us, provoke us or profile us. We can only hope that all Mthwakazians will remain and continue to see through al these. MPC continues to. We will continue to identify these attempts at political sabotage, whatever guise they might come in.

What we know now and don?t fumble is that, through MPC and other groups and individuals less public than MPC and Mr Dabengwa or ZAPU, uMthwakazi is on the march.

And there is no stopping us.


From the Communications Department
Posted By: Mthakathi27 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/20/08 10:39 AM
Originally Posted by mg_d
mthakathi take us out of misery kabob because you seem to underestimate iMPC kanti pho uthi kwenziwe njani mfowethu njengoba ugxeka ungafaki izeluleko and bro mind calling other people fools because this might come back to you ayingaxabani bafowethu ukubonisana is the best way of going forward mina ngithi maybe wena you do have abetter suggestion that might help the MPC and all the Mthwakazian people. ngeke kulunge ukuthi sithi sisazama ukuphakama sihle siqale ngokungathembani singakabhekani lesitha.

mg_d
Mfowethu ngithanda ukubonga isaluleko sakho, kubi ukuthethisa abnaye abantu, ikakhulu uma uthethisa ngokweyisa njalo unganiki eyakho imibono engaba lusizo. Kodwa uma ungabuyela njalo lapho engibhale khona uzathola ukuthi nginikile imibono yami. Ngiyazi ukuthi ungabe ungavumelani layo, kodwa mina yimibono engicabanga ukuthi ingasiza iMPC loMthwakazi nje jikelele. Ithi ngiwuphinde umbono wami engicabanga ukuthi uqakathekile. Nanku, mina ngicabanga ukuthi iMPC ingaphumelela uma ingazama ukuthi abakhokheli bengasebenzeli emakhoneni, bengabi ngamalwecatsha.
Mfowethu kudala ngiyilandela iMPC, ngicabanga ukuthi yinhlanganiso engasikhulula. IMPC ngiyawuthanda umbono wabo wokukhulula uMthwakazi ebugqilini bezimbabwe. Yikho ngithanda wazi ukuthi bengithembele kuyo, kodwa isingidanise kaningi kakhulu. Kodwa abadala bathi akulahlwa mbeleko ngokufelwa, njalo awungeke ucithe usane lamazi.
Posted By: Mthakathi27 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/20/08 10:51 AM
Kuwe Mfoka Dube
Ngiyakuzwa nsizwa yakithi, kodwa ngilesicelo esisodwa. UJazi is not my friend njalo ngicabanga ukuthi mina laye sibona ngokwehlukene ngokwezombusazwe, kodwa sekwafika isikhathi sokuthi ngimhloniphe. Ungumuntu ebengihlala ngimthethisa izikhathi ezinengi kodwa kukhona okuhle ngaye lubaba, uyifunde uvule ingqondo imibhalo yakhe. Yikho wena njengomuntu omele ibanda lezombusazwe akumelanga ubhale ungananzelelanga, kubi ukuthi uhlawumbisele ngokuthi engabe esebenzela isitha, lokhu kusuka kululaze imibhalo yakho kanti njalo kuthelela ibandla lakho lezepolitiki amabhadi. Yekela abantu bamthethise lapha eNKundleni bamtshele ubuCIO loma ubuTshona, uma lae utshiseka ngokumtshela lokho, ngena ngelinye igama eNkundleni umtshele zigcwale. We expect maturity and high standards from you guys. We will always hold you to account. From the look of it, you are an intelligent man, who got carried away because of emotions.
Posted By: Jazelindizayo Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/20/08 11:56 AM
Mthakathi27 - Let me explain further on why I say the MPC needs to particpate kuma elections. They need to particpate purely on the grounds of legitimacy and most impotantly to acquire a mandate from uMthwakazi. It cannot be taken fait accompli that the views that they hold are those of the majority of Mthwakazi. Thus they need to stand on the very platform that they have been promoting here in cyberspace khona kanye kwaMgodoyi so that when the Kirths of this world tour the swradios of this world they can do so without the accusations of being an organisation that has arrogated the will of the people of Mthwakazi being levelled.


Mr Dube
With respect to my post that you refer to as a swipe I only have this to say- call it a swipe, indeed calll it whatever tickles your fancy but for goodness 's sake do not mistake it as an attack on Mthwakazi. If the post is to be described in terms of an attack then it is an attack on iMpisi. It is an attack on all self aggrandising and self regarding organisations that are long on empty and meaningless rhetoric but short and woeful inadequate on delivery.It is an attack on all those that delight in their self importance. It is an attack on those the promise heaven on earth but have no clue on delivering this heaven. Impisi is not Mthwakazi and Mthwakazi is not iMpisi!

Your insults whether intentional or otherwise namely that I am agent provocateur will not be dignfied with substantive response but rather will be dismissed with the contempt that they so deserve. It is ironic that you start of your response by saying that you welcome free speech and debate but then in the very next breath seek to dismiss the legitimate issues that I have raised with what tantamounts to a Zanu-esque response to those views that differ from yours. This is a tactic that is as old as Zanu indeed some would be tempted to say as time itself but its intended effect is to allow you to dismiss contrary views with something that approaches impunity!

The second accussation namely that the post sought to drive a wedge between Zapu and the iMpisi is at best surprising and at worst confusing. It is on these boards that you have been at pains to stress that iMpisi and Zapu are like oil and water - they do not mix. Indeed in this very thread this is what you wrote:

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Back to the subject topic Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini?izolo ubenguDabengwa esebenza engaphansi kukaMasuku oyilo leliya qhawe elabulawa ngumgabe. UDabengwa ulokhu enguyena lowo owathi emva kokukhululwa ngumgabe entolongweni emvakokuba iZAPU yenze isivumelwano leZANU PF waba lilunga eliphezulu laleloBandla. Ulokhu enguye owasithembisa ngeMatebeleland Zambezi water project lalamhlanje intombi sezaze zabayizalukazi zilindile. UmfokaDabengwa ulokhu eyilo leliyaqhawe likaMthwakazi elingazangelenze lutho ukusiza amabhizimisi akobulawayo etshintshelwa eHalale. UDabengwa ulokhu enguye lowa owadliwa kumavoti enkulumane emele iZANU. Lamhlanje uDabengwa esimaziyo uhlangane labanye bavuselela iZAPU, IPUZA iparty kaMthwakazi esazalwa siyilandela singayehlukanisi lakancane ukuyithanda leHighlanders bosso tshilamoyo. iZAPU kasiyo kaDabengwa ngekaMthwakazi njalo uwonke wonke kaMthwakazi ulelungelo lokuyilandela ngoba yona ivele ingeyakithi.

iMPC kayikaze ibambane lebandla lezitha iZANU, kanye labakhokheli bayo kabakaze babelezikhundla kuZANU PF. Amalunga weMPC kawakaze lelilodwa bathembise uMthwakazi ukuba bafuna ukubusa iZimbabwe. iMPC yona ifuna uzibuse kaMthwakazi lokuthi iZimbabwe izimele yodwa.UMthwakazi People's Convention uthi wonke amabandla,amaqembu,inhlanganiso labantu bakaMthwakazi abafuna ukuzibusa baqoqane ngaphansi kogatsha olulodwa bakhulule uMthwakazi. An individual is not important to MPC than the collective effort of our people. iZapu njengamanye amaqembu yasithembisa ukuba iyazijabulela incwadi zethu ikakhulu iVELVET DIVORCE doc. Njengamanje iMPC iyaqhubeka ngomsebenzi omnkhulu wokuqoqa wonke uMthwakazi ukuze sifeze lowomsebenzi.

The historical Zapu pre the 1987 Unity accord was not an exclusive club solely for abantu bakwaMthwakazi. Amongst other evidence for this, the fact that Zapu is only one of two parties that had eighty candidates at the general elections in 1980 and 1985 bears witness to the notion of a Zapu that, to use your words, wants to rule Zimbabwe. I stand corrected but the revived Zapu appears to be the that same creature that will have structures all over Zimbabwe. Indeed on their website they have their slogan in all three official languages of Zimbabwe including one that is seemingly anathema to your organisation. Be that as it may what is clear is that (in so far as I know) is Zapu is not actively seeking the much vaunted velvet divorce from Zimbabwe whereas you are. Thus your aims and intentions are at cross purposes with those of Zapu. What is clear is from this and the excerpt of your post above is that there exists ideological differences between yourselves (as iMpisi) and Zapu. In light of these ideoligical differences and the points that you stress above it is evident that a chasm already exists between iMpisi and Zapu. However by some twist of logic known only to you you see it fitting to hurl accusations of seeking to drive a wedge between Zapu and iMpisi! The accusations when seen in the cold light of day, sound hollow and smack of desperation.


On the issue of strategy, the post that you so keen to dismiss raises fundamental and important questions. I will repeat those questions in the hope that you will take time from your busy schedule of innovation, innovation and innovation and address the questions root and branch in order that no one is left with no illusions.

a) Is it correct to state that iMpisi's stated strategy of deliveing independece for Mthwakazi is via a negotiated settlement?

b) Negotiations can take place under one of two scenarios. The first being the existence of a democratic dispensation in Zimbabwe. What if any are the measures is the iMpisi taking to ensure that that this democratic dispensation becomes a reality? The truth of the matter is that the iMpisi can not afford to continue to "rope" itself to the sidelines in the political landscape yakwaMgodoyi and expect to be taken seriously as an organisation that seeks redress via a negotiated settlement. Thus far the mantra and the impression that you have given is that the politics of Zimbabwe is somehow beneath you and that you are a cut above everyone else who is seemingly trying to bring about a dispensation that you so need in order to effect your dreams. The harsh truth is that in the absence of democracy there will be no negotiations and questions then becomes to repeat it, What is iMpisi undertaking to ensure that the wheels of democracy are not stalled? Let it be clear that the deliverance of a democratic dispensation is not being laid at the feet of the iMpisi but at the door of all organisations that cherish the ideal of democracy. Is the iMpisi willing to be part and parcel of those organisations?

c) In the absence of a democractic dispensation it remains that the government of the day in Zimbabwe will then have to be forced kicking and screaming to the table of negotiations. I have already said that for negotiations to take place you will need to have either a stick and or a carrot. Does iMpisi have in its possession either one or indeed both of these?

d) I have already stated that the only other option to achieve independence is via a civil war. You were extremely hasty in dismissing that as a damp squib. Are you therefore ruling out this option out? If this is not an option, and you will not participate in the politics yakwaMgodoyi (to bring about a democratic dispensation), you have no carrot or stick (to kick start negotiations) how then will you bring about an independent Mtwakazi?

As stated earlier on I trust that you will respond to these questions without the need to resort to chameleon philosophies and ninja tactics. Not only does it not shed light but it does you as an organisation no good when you are seen to be unable to address simple questions from simple people with simple answers.Bear in mind that the old adage that not everyone that sh*ts you is your enemy may very well apply.
Posted By: Mthakathi27 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/21/08 11:50 AM
Quote
Mthakathi27 - Let me explain further on why I say the MPC needs to particpate kuma elections. They need to particpate purely on the grounds of legitimacy and most impotantly to acquire a mandate from uMthwakazi. It cannot be taken fait accompli that the views that they hold are those of the majority of Mthwakazi. Thus they need to stand on the very platform that they have been promoting here in cyberspace khona kanye kwaMgodoyi so that when the Kirths of this world tour the swradios of this world they can do so without the accusations of being an organisation that has arrogated the will of the people of Mthwakazi being levelled.
Your reasoning is sound and might be naive on this one, but could you please furnish me with evidence of any Liberation movement like the MPC in the African context that has participated in such elections to gain legitimacy and mandate from their people. I am sure that these two could be gained without participating in elections of this nature. Participating in such elections i think will send a bad message to the effect that the MPC still desires for uMthwakazi to be part and parcel of the Zimbabwean edifice. MPC is not just an ordinary political movement, but it is a liberation movement which fights for secession. In Zimbabwe i don't think that it matters what form or means of attaining such an end, it would be labelled a treason. Even if you label it as a "velvet divorce" ; peaceful political process or a violent armed struggle, to the government of Zimbabwe it would make no difference. Do you remember that Mkhwananzi of ZAPU fame was charged for treason for calling for an independent state of Mthwakazi?
Now what remains is to explain how MPC could gain legitimacy and mandate from uMthwakazi; this is how:
1) It has to have a presence in Mthwakazi (members and structures)
2) It has to have a visible leadership, particularly the president.
3) It has to engage the government of Zimbabwe without fear on behalf of uMthwakazi.
4) It has to seek for the involvement of the majority of uMthwakazi (membership will signify that people are happy for what MPC stand for)
5) It has to continue mobilising, fighting for uMthwakazi and campaigning on behalf of uMthwakazi in different forums.
Posted By: Jah Dingani Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/21/08 01:30 PM
Bakithi uDabengwa is a man elamasende. If he persists evuselela i-PF Zapu ngobukhulu ubuciko langamandla, then i-political space yakithi will be PF-Zapu's. Those who want to govern their people have to earn that mandate from their people. They earn it by taking that agenda to their people libalele lasebukhweni bezinja. The people then either buy it or reject it through the ballot box. Anything else that becomes invisible for too long looses the momentum for political space and becomes a mere political fraud which is easily noticed by those who are meant to follow it. It becomes like cow dung that attracts flies. What happens afterwards is the endless idea of trying to fight the flies away instead of focusing on the real agenda of a movement. All is lost and people get defensive unecessarily. The other problem is people getting obsessional about being the political royality of Matebeleland. This kind of behaviour leads people away from focusing on their agenda and spend endless time attacking personalities of Mthwakazi who have a different approach to them. This strategy is retrogressive and unhelpful in pushing the agenda of a serious organisation. Dabengwa has not attacked anyone. He is taking the agenda of PF Zapu to the people of Matebeleland without any attack on anyone except Mugabe and his henchman. This is what others should do. Let this be no competition but an acknowledgement of different strategies of the mentioned parties or the said political movements.
Posted By: hloniphani02 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/21/08 09:12 PM
phansi nabopasi injongwe kufanele licuthwe indaba yokunegotiater nenyoka yinto nje umthwakazi ongafanele uyenze
Posted By: MTHWENTWEHLABA1 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/21/08 10:36 PM
Bantwana beNkosi
My only fear is that our people could be led astray by others deliberately distorting the truth about iMPC. There are many people who are yet to join this site. It is important how and what they perceive of this organisation.

According to my understanding, MPC will do everthing in its power to attain independence from Zimbabwe. In the first instance, they are prepared to negotiate. MPC did not rule out the option of an armed struggle. All the stuff being said otherwise is a deliberate distortion of the truth. What I understood was that Mpc said there was already enough blood shed and we lost so many lives in Mthwakazi and as such we are not prepared to lose any more souls, not even one. These are not my feelings but what I have learned over time since I started participating on this forum. This can be found somewhere in the archives in this same forum. Most of us must be familiar with this, if we are truthful and if I did not misunderstand.

I have also understood that they are still building this party. Have we not heard from them calling "wozani sizokwakha inhlanganiso?" It was on this call among other issues that I responded to their call. I must not forget to say this does not make me special or any more important than those that have not joined. I have not contributed more to the struggle than anyone else, all I did was just to join, since I saw a cause. We of Mthwakazi are all the same and need each other.

Do we remember when they also said they are going to wage the struggle in stages?. The initial stage being to revive or to mobilise Mthwakazi to awaken to this battle. I suppose we remember how we have been silenced by zanu over the years, we could not even utter a single word against the regime in harare. Our people were killed and decapacitated in the most brutile of manners, by the state and many are still gripped by fear and lack of confidence to this day.

MPC said when Mthwakazi would be ready and revived she will then be free to chose her own leadership as they all in MPC were on interim basis. As well Mthwakazi could go ahead and form other parties if they so desired, "diversity is the beauty of democracy". I guess this is another point where people have taken opportunity to yet distort issues again, where they are asking whether MPC is a political movement or political party.

We are called upon to come and build the party. Yini singezi kanjalo? Kunini amajaha la ethi "kuqalwa ngokukhasa umntwana engakagijima?" Is it not that you build structures and their functions and strategise first before one can launch out in the open or function fully on the ground. Now bakaMthwakazi has all this groundwork been done and all the positions filled in, does anybody know? This question that, why does MPC not come out in the open has been asked and answered many times. Generally, others look like they want to see action first, before joining the party. Everyone has a right to order their lives, to decide whether they want to join or not or even when they will join if they will. That should be respected.

Now bafowethu hear me, and please hear me well. Some of us come across as enemies of MPC. Makuyikuthi liyatshutshisa you are not achieving that end despite your good intentions, liyaduhisa, liyaconfusa abanye especially abasafika abangakazizweli ngalenhlanganiso. Liyabulala njalo liyabhidliza what other men are building.

Kengibuze, kwakutheni uMqabuko aze ayokulwa ehlala kuboZambia? I suggest we lie not one to another.Did he not fear death? With all due respect was he not the one owabonakala ecrossa into Botswana wearing a dress, ma kwakuqinisekile? Onke amaqhawe asitshiyayo died not because of carelessness, but their defense or precaution failed somehow. Is it not ok to take precaution even today?. Why should abantu bezinikele lenhlanganiso isakhiwa nje ingakathi engage fully in battle? I personally think this party should be built to a point where it is able to outlive its visionaries. Should any person pass away, the party must continue. Manje njengoba abantu bethandabuza njalo belwisana nale nhlanganiso, bazoyakha njani bengayijoinanga?. Maybe bazajoina bengabona abanye sebetshabalalisiwe?

Ngibuze futhi njalo, Do we really think ukuthi nga u tswangilayi liNdebele ngabe usaphila?

Mpc said it will never be in competition with Zapu or anyone who is proMthwakazi. While all the other groupings are fighting for our freedom, MPC in advocating for a cessation stands out from the rest of them. Does that make Mpc better than everybody, certainly not. Does that make Mpc different, certainly yes. Is this grandiosity, Iet each one of us make their own judgment with a clear conscience so that they dont make themself a liar.

Maybe for some people it is ok to discourage others from joining Mpc, but please also offer the people the alternative, that is if you mean well for us. Does it feel right to point people nowhere?

Right now, thank you for advice to the party, those of us that have contributed and are advising daily. So it is possible to advice from behind the computer? How about to organise or to build the party from behind the computer?

Discouragement is different from encouragement. These will never be the same. It is pure arrogance and ignorance to continue to wound and maim others when at the same time you are teling the world that you mean to encourage or cause improvement.

Does anybody know that if you rally behind a coward, the coward gathers strength? Does anybody realise its not fair to call others coward when you yourself have not ventured in the same spot and triumphed. If we all rallied behind this MPC we can take it over from the cowards and put ourselves that are brave in the battle and do exactly what we want done, and for that, overnight. It is as easy as that. Kakho ngitsho lomuntu oyedwa ongaphikisa intando kaMthwakazi. Mpc, as I have understood it, is for Mthwakazi but Mthwakazi is not for MPC. Mpc is not bigger than Mthwakazi. Its like, the foot is not for the shoe but the shoe is for the foot. That makes this MPC very important because it is to serve such a great purpose.

Now I beg you my brothers and sisters dont trouble these faithful custodians bearing this tender organisation. Encourage them, praise them, trust them, in so doing you will deliver Mthwakazi from a certain death by zanu.
Posted By: mg_d Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/21/08 10:42 PM
philani bafowethu lami ngisaphila, lapha enkundleni mina sengibone ngafunda okuningi kanti futhi ngiyabona ukuthi uMthwakazi has got alot of intelligent people who can come together and make the MPC a very strong political party that is if people like o kirth can bring theirselves down and accept the advises that comes from the Mthwakazin people imjobo ithungelwa ebandla nkokheli ze MPC. Mthakathi has always asked about the leader of the MPC no answer has been given regarding that, and i think we have said enough about uDabengwa reviving zapu we must just leave because yena he is ot talking about any of us including our hiding MPC.the MPC must swallow their pride anf come straight to the people ,we don`t wanna hear about the strategies from you guys talking through radio stations i think its time you come out and face the people and tell them who you are or you waiting for ukuthi umgabe afe then you will start to come out and talk ukuze sibone ukuthi you for real just take him while he is still alive we are here to support you , people want to join the MPC some of them they are prepared to help sp[reading the word about the party but if lina lidinsela emva then the revived ZAPU is going to be very strong and the MPC will be history just like abo liberty party, there is nothing like the right time when people are suffering.
Posted By: Muntongenakudla Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/22/08 06:57 AM
You people must re-read Jazi's writings - this time with your eyes open. All Jazi has asked for is that the MPC obtains the pre-requisite mandate from the people it purpots to represent. The voice of the people is the voice of God. This MPC dlanzana must jostle for political space on the electoral field kwaMgo & prove with a multitude of pro-secession Mthwakazi MPs ukuthi ivangeli labo liya vakala. Otherwise they can only fool the gullible ngale dodgy, top-down, holier than thou harangue, dictating: "Mthwakazi quqaba thungatha umkhondo wethu & follow us, the 3 wise men in hiding (Kirth, oldman river Zwangs & Ndabembi Ntshamathe), we have the panacea to take you to promise land!". What if uquqaba loMthwakazi wansondo alufuni uku hlubuka ezweni loMgodoyi?
Posted By: Mthakathi27 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/22/08 10:13 AM

Quote
Discouragement is different from encouragement. These will never be the same. It is pure arrogance and ignorance to continue to wound and maim others when at the same time you are teling the world that you mean to encourage or cause improvement.


Your passion for MPC is highly commendable, but your unwise and defensive stance leaves a lot to be desired. If you can be this simplistic and have a linear thinking process like this i doubt that you will be the right person to defend or speak on behalf of the MPC, for you are doing so much harm than good to it. How on earth would you want people to lie in the name of encouraging the MPC leadership? What you are not aware of is that people have had that time for deliberate and direct encouragement for a very long time, now i think its apt to adopt different encouragement strategies. Remember this is a marathon, or a relay, today its you in the reigns tomorrow it would be me, i would not expect to be pampered and lied to just because i am member of a special organisation.
You are quick to insult people call them moron and charlatans just because they approach the MPC at a different angle from yours. Your aim is to gag, curtail and silence the people, but let me assure you that your efforts would be in vain.




[/quote]mg_d
Quote
there is nothing like the right time when people are suffering.
[quote]

I totally agree with you, Che Guevera of the Cuba Revolution fame alluded to the same,that people would always rationalise against starting a struggle, they would always have excuses and if you look at them a face value they would be all valid, but what it means is that if people wait to clear all the obstacles before starting a meaningful stryggle then surely there would be no struggle to start.
Posted By: Jah Dingani Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/22/08 01:44 PM
I also highly commend your enthusiasm and your passion for MPC politics. That is great baba. However some of us get worried when people who purport to be fighting tyranny on our behalf behave in a tyrannical way like Zanu PF or the liberation movements of the Josua Nkomo time. During the liberation movement any critics who voiced their concerns were quickly liquidated or labelled as counter revolutionaries. It would appear that kind of thinking is now being adopted by the very people who are singing the gospel for freeing Mthwakazi. Any dissenting voice or critic is quickly labelled an 'enemy' of MPC, in other words a counter-revolutionary. That is the wrong way to go.

The other thing that we should be aware of is the fact that those who decided to be the revolutionary leaders of Mthwakazi in MPC were not forced or cajoled to take that leadership mantle. It was their choice to do so and they should be able to respond in a mature way when people are raising their concerns. It is the fundamental right of those okumele babe ngabalandeli of this organisation to voice their concerns about the movement and its operations or the lack of it without being labelled counter-revolutionaries. To label those genuine Mthwakazi people who are expressing themselves freely about the state of the org as 'enemies' of the org is downright wrong and bad salesmanship.
Posted By: duze Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/22/08 11:10 PM
Mthwentwe mfowethu kunjani. mina ngithukuthele ngiyaganunwabu. i am not a member of MPC. so ngingakhuluma noma yini engiyithandayo lokho akungeke kudimaze isithunzi seMPC. ukhona umuntu opheleleyo ekhanda ongaziyo ukuthi inhlangano ikhuliswa ngamalunga ayo? lababantu ojazi and company abakhi. so nifunani kubo.? they have no intention yokukhulisa iMPC. nizobancenga nina malunga enhlangano ngoba nilawulwa ngamapolicies wenu. thina onkunzi emnyama inkomo edla yodwa siyovela sibatshele straight emehlweni. kungabakahle kabi ukuthi labababantu vele bangajoyini. baliwe. declined. they have nothing to offer.

bakhona abantu bakwaMthwakazi abanemibuzo eqhotho abaqhubeke bebuza nabo bayazi ukuthi singuMthwakazi siyakujabulela lokho.
kodwa these phoney charectors should go hang vele abadingakali.

ngiyakuzwa ucasisa Mthwntwe kodwa lutho okungabantu kulokho kumbuluza ngendelelo. akukhokhwa mali ukujoyina ukhulise inhlangano. pho yini enzima kangaka kulamadoda? sala kahle mfowethu.
Posted By: Gaselomhle Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/23/08 06:46 AM
If there ever was a time when as Mthwakazi we needed to be united for our cause then it is now. We do not have to create an MPC camp, Dabengwa or Jonathan Camp and start comparing these as though they are enemies. Instead all these should combine to form a single powerful force, as each has a role they can play better than the other as far as the Mthwakazi cause is concerned.
Ngizophawula okumbalwa lapha:
To formally pull off the unity accord who has a louder voice koMthwakazi than the likes of Dabengwa?
Who has a greater influence on the ground (that is koMthwakazi) than the likes of Dabengwa? I have a father who was a ZAPU supporter and was greatly disappointed by the signing of the unity accord. Today I'm sure it will take him time to be convinced by the MPC & I wonder how MPC will ever reach him as he knows nothing about internet and owns no computer to follow the cyber politics and debates, but if Dabengwa, having deaclared that he is not ZANU anymore, is to call a meeting and air the MPC views he will easily be convinced. (For I am sure that Dabengwa will not address Mthwakazi via internet but will use the old styles of calling i-rally and press conferences). On the other hand I have my learned, smart friends whose veins are packed with hot blood and are full of energy, these freinds do not believe in the old folk like the Dabengwas but would better listen to their learned peers. The majority of them are abroad and know the current Zim situation from the media and heresay. However for the Mthwakazi cause we need both groups, so to accomplish it why not have MPC team up with Dabengwa. Dabengwa will use his influence and will reach the pple on the ground who know nothing about cyber politics, while MPC leadership which also resides abroad reaches out for the other groups?
If these guys (Dabengwa, Sikhanyiso, Lesabe, John Nkomo, Msika) were to make public declarations that they are out of ZANU and are nullifying the unity accord I'm sure they would ganner big support from Matebeleland and that should not be viewed as a blow on MPC but an addition. Despite that they may vy for ruling the whole of Zimbabwe, it should be appreciated that Dabengwa has made a positive move, (which everyone has heard & seen, be it in the rural or urbun area, accessing internet or not) and where there are differences with MPC all that's needed yikukhulumisana kubotshwe into eyodwa. If someone convinced them to sign the unity accord, I'm sure someone can still convince them about the secession agenda.
It has been mentioned before, ukuthi MPC's weakness is that it is not known on the ground but ku Cyber space. Eventually abantu bakoMthwakazi continue to vote for MDC as if they support it whereas it is the only available alternative against ZANU. At this stage if MPC is to make a big impact koMthwakazi, I think it's best to team up with the Dabengwas, than to compare and compete.
Also if per chance Mgabe is dethroned it will be difficult to convince the global village of our cause, as everyone will be saying give the new leader a chance to prove himself. Now is the time so that when the dust settles our case is also considered, and the good thing ngoDabengwa is that he is blowing the today & right on the ground.
BAMBANANI MTHWAKAZI, HOW CAN YOU SIGN A UNITY ACCORD LOMGABE BELISEHLULEKA UKUBAMBANA LODWA.
Posted By: Muntongenakudla Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/23/08 09:24 AM
The alleged Mthwakazian secessionist agenda belongs to & is solely limited to 3 masked characters that go by the handles of Kirth, Zwangendaba & Ndabembi Ntshamathe. These 3 guys suddenly, unilaterally & secretly designed an emblem, derived a name (UMR), formulated a secessionist agenda & imposed it on Mthwakazi as a panacea to all her political ills. They never sought a mandate kubantu they purport to speak for. They didn't even care to show face emphakathini. Effectively, they represent only themselves & their tribal, criminal, backward-looking & navel-gazing agenda. Dabengwa can't mix with this pack coz he's batting on a different wicket. He is pushing a practical, legal, heterogeneous (nationalistic), consultative (hence the elective congress) & forward-looking agenda. Buka o-Dr Nziramasanga no Prof Magida are walking side by side be pusher umzabalazo. That's the ZAPU yakudala enga bandlululi kaNkomo. If MPC is looking for partners, they must try iZANU kaMgots coz nayo igcwele ngalo lolu bishi lwe discrimination.
Posted By: mpumelelo101 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/23/08 11:13 AM
with all due respect, we should be ashamed that our great old timers(o DABENGWA) are coming to our rescue after giving us(mthwakazian youths) 21 years to mature and get educated(1987-2008)!! no youths have been given such a great amount of time in other hotspots like sri-lanka, nothern uganda or southern sudan! and all we can do is to fight it on cyberspace being led by masked mzekezeke's?
and then sigcona oDABENGWA who are walking the talk?
Posted By: Gaselomhle Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/23/08 12:00 PM
[quote=mpumelelo101]...we should be ashamed that our great old timers(o DABENGWA) are coming to our rescue after giving us(mthwakazian youths) 21 years to mature and get educated(1987-2008)!!..../quote]
I'm trying to figure out ukuthi unga utshoni lapha, ungeqile. Are yu saying the period 1987 to 2008 has offered better education, if so how?
Or you are saying them joining and remaining in ZANU offered space for better education?
Ngicela ungihlomulele!!!
Posted By: Sibambamahawu Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/23/08 01:05 PM
Quote
Originally Posted by Muntongenakudla
The alleged Mthwakazian secessionist agenda belongs to & is solely limited to 3 masked characters that go by the handles of Kirth, Zwangendaba & Ndabembi Ntshamathe.


Point of correction, the gentleman in question is called Ndabenhle Shamase not Ndabembi Ntshamathe.

[quote]These 3 guys suddenly, unilaterally & secretly designed an emblem, derived a name (UMR), formulated a secessionist agenda & imposed it on Mthwakazi as a panacea to all her political ills.

Your accusations are hollow and devoid of objectivity and reality. This is the acceptable way of founding any organisation, be it political, social or whatever. Theory is theory and it will remain as such. Lets face reality all political organisation approach politics from top-down. They then mask this by involving people on rubber stamping their already formulated processes and policies. The bottom up can not work in reality, because an organisation needs leaders who will give it a strategic direction, they need to have a road map or a framework for people or the masses to work from.

Quote
They never sought a mandate kubantu they purport to speak for. They didn't even care to show face emphakathini. Effectively, they represent only themselves & their tribal, criminal, backward-looking & navel-gazing agenda.

I might agree with you on one thing here ukuthi the MPC has not yet sought mandate from the people it purports work for, but i am sure that this is in the pipeline, for there is no other way around it. I would like to vehemently disagree with on that MPC promotes tribal agenda, the MPC represents a nation not a tribe. The nation it represents consists of different ethnic groups and races. MPC is a purely non-racial and non-tribal organisation. MPC is an organisation which values diversity, freedom and multiplicity of opinions, cultures, etc. I would also like to violently disagree with you the notion that what the MPC stand for is criminal, tell me Mr Ntshamathe what's criminal in self-determination?, the reason that the government of Robert Mugabe might perceive it as such that does not translate it into criminal. No, no this agenda is a serious agenda, there is no single or an iota of navel-gazing in it.

Quote
Dabengwa can't mix with this pack coz he's batting on a different wicket. He is pushing a practical, legal, heterogeneous (nationalistic), consultative (hence the elective congress) & forward-looking agenda. Buka o-Dr Nziramasanga no Prof Magida are walking side by side be pusher umzabalazo.

To you anything with Shona in it, translayes to nationalistic agenda. Can't you see that you have been brainwashed. There is nothing special about their agenda.
Posted By: Muntongenakudla Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/23/08 03:09 PM
Sibambimidlelo, top-down political formations only succeed in the deluded minds of the Mzekezeke copycat self appointed pseudo leaders ze dead Mpisi. Even that geriatric goon, M-g-o-d-o-y-i himself pointed to the folly of leyo way when he likened Makoni's Mavambo-Kusile fiasco to umqwayizi oma ekhoneni ebiza amadoda adlula ngendlela to come feast on her stinking ngquza! Mthaka, ayi dumi kanje ma izo suka! Like l said earlier on, only a foolish maiden would accept i-proposal ye sesheli esi gqoke i-mask. This MPC is a criminal, illegal, tribalist, bandit cabal whose inspiration derives from discriminatory politics zoM-g-o-d-o-y-i. That they choose the comfort of the anonymity of their masks is living proof of their full knowledge of the folly of their ways & the potentially grave consequences thereof. They are fugitives from justice, rebels with no cause & it'd serve the democratic world a lot of good to turn them in, babingelele umahluleli, alongside their inspiration, uM-g-o-t-s, the architect of discriminatory politics.
Posted By: duze Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/23/08 05:25 PM
Gasela mfowethu kunjani la ukhona nahlanje. mina ngisaphila. happy xmas ne new yela kuwe nabakwenu. uMthwakazi qho uyezwakala noma singaboni ngokufana. uyezwakala nsizwa. siyakuvuma lokho okushoyo. sithemba nabo abaphathi bayo iMPC bazwile lokho okushoyo. akuhlanganwe.izinhlangano zethu mazingalwisani kodwa zibambane.

kodwa kukhona ojazi nabomuntongenakudla abavele behlose ukugoloza beyise. mina uma ngingajoyina inhlangano abantu abanje ngingathi abaliwe. bathule ngoba asibadingi. very quick to find fault but never have a valid sujestion. crap. crap. we dont even understand their stand point.

as for abantu abafana nawe gazilami buzani ningadeli. siyabonga.
Posted By: mg_d Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/23/08 07:57 PM
l think every political party is for the people not for the leaders thina siza khala baze bazwe laba abaphetheyo asibambaneni Mthwakazi siyiphakamise iMPC ngeyethu sometimes ilizwi libuhlungu ukwedlula isibhakera so okirth and company bazo phumela egcekeni ngayo lemibhalo le masibambe singadeli.
Posted By: Kirth_Dube Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/23/08 08:27 PM
Mthwakazi,

Ngikengihleke ngalelithuba.

Njengoba the likes of Mpumelelo101,Jazelindizayo, muntongelakudla and others of sort, are basking in delight at throwing whatever insults they so wish to throw kumaMPC officials,sebesibiza Mzekezeke.Who are the Sgonondo's then uma kuthiwa thina singo Mzekezeke????


Back to politics.
Njengoba abanye lisala lokho esilitshelakhona. Ngesihle ngicela lizibalele ngawenu amehlo lokhu engikuqoqe ngikuthola kuphephandaba leHerald kukhutshwe nguye uMgabe.

Ngiyabonga Mthwakazi.

Full story is found in the ZANU PF mouthpiece the Herald.
Link: http://www.herald.co.zw/inside.aspx?sectid=1761&cat=1

"I was reading recent utterances by Condoleezza Rice (US Secretary of State) that African leaders are not prepared to topple President Mugabe and bring about regime change.

"She condemned this inability on the part of African leaders. How could African leaders ever topple Robert Mugabe, organise an army to come? It is not easy. I do not know of any African country that is brave enough to do that."

President Mugabe took a swipe at Botswana for being a mouthpiece for the British and the Americans.

Africans, he said, were rational enough to know that epidemics do occur regardless of whether one is black or white.

He warned delegates to be wary of the enemy who was devising new ways of destroying Zanu-PF from within and urged members to be on high alert.

The President said there has been a build- up of incidents of a military nature perpetrated against the people and country.

"Now we notice there is change . . . that change is that the enemy forces should now concentrate on personalities in Zanu-PF. Let?s take care. You are the leaders of the party," President Mugabe said urging party members to guard against "supping and dining" with the enemy.

"Tikadaro chete tapera. Nyaya iyoyi yekucherana ngaipere," he said to applause from delegates.

Most of the Central Committee members shouted "No" when the President asked whether all the members were clean.

He expressed dismay at the skirmishes that characterised Harare provincial elections warning some party members to desist from being too ambitions, backbiting, tribalist and regionalist.

"You might have an ambition but let not your ambition be misguided. We do not want it. Let us avoid it. I hope we can correct that kind of trend, which is developing.

"Varipo vangataura kuti isu tinoda zvechidunhu, nyika yakarwirwa by all tribes. We are Zimbabweans first and foremost. Yes, we keep our cultures, but we should not allow that to divide us . . . As one people we can move forward together faster than a divided people.

"Zvimaparty zvingamuka kana zvikadini zvazvo but as long as they are not based on unity and have no history as that of our party, the political wealth that our party has, they can never last," he said.

He denounced the use of the youths in fighting against each other while the enemy was plotting day and night to win over the party members in a bid to decimate the party.

"Setting one group against the other . . . Zvava zveboxing? The enemy is planning day and night ways and means of winning our people and therefore reduce our membership . . . Let?s have a counter to that," he said.

"Yes, they will back you to do the foolish business of fighting your people but we are watchful. We are saying that cannot continue."
Posted By: JJMATSHETSHE Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/23/08 08:36 PM
Awu kaMthembo

Akusithengisele iMPC wena kuphela. Ma ku qhutshwa utho kulezinhlobonhlobo zabantu kunye labo Enos Nkala imbala. Ivision yakho ithini? Which is more productive: spending time and energy fire fighting la kwa cyberspace or burning the fire of inkululeko where it matters?
Posted By: Jazelindizayo Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/23/08 09:00 PM
Mr Kirth Dube
It is unfortunate that you have seen it fitting yet again to hurl more unsubstantiaed allegations about me. Kuphi lapho where I have insulted you in this thread? I dare you to come up with one insult lapho engithethise khona? In my last post I asked you to respond to issues raised therein without resorting to chameleon philosophy and ninja tactics. It would appear that my request has fallen on deaf ears for not only do you employ chameleon philosohies and ninja tactics but you add snake techniques to your repertoire.To borrow more words from the People's Poet who says - "when solutions are gone trickes cannot become solutions and substitutes! When solutions are gone the hopeless and helpless fabricate propaganda too blatant to swallow."
I again I ask and hope that you will take tthe time to respond (without resorting to fabriaction and nullification) - you must be an extremely busy man what with having to innovate, innnovate, innovate and innovate as well as trawling the internet to come up with amaquotations eNja. This time I will be brief and to the point:-

Does the MPC have the carrot/stick with which to bring iNja or whoever will follow to the table of negotiations?
If not, is war an option in this so called struggle?
If war is an option then why are you peddling your so called velvet divorce with what is approaching religious zeal?
Posted By: Kirth_Dube Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/23/08 09:43 PM
Jazi,
Mnumzane forgive me for including your pseudo name on the list mentioned above. Liphutha elenzekile, where the sentence could have read 'critisisms' and 'insults' it read 'insults' only.I hope you will genuinly accept my apology.

On the issues you raise in the response above, How about if I could furnish you with the details through email if you can forward yours to me.
These are my email addresses: director.communications@mthwakazionline.com or kirthdube@rocketmail.com.

I invite you to respond positively at my request Sir.
Posted By: JJMATSHETSHE Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/23/08 09:56 PM
Kuwe Baba Kirth Dube.

Details!

How nice? Why not publish them lapha e Nkundleni kayi one?

What does it take to acquire such a document? Lathi siyazifuna izidetails.
Posted By: Muntongenakudla Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/24/08 12:11 AM
Inhlanzi ishelwe amanzi. Ikhwibi (inkukhu) linqunywe umlomo. The impostor is exposed. The bogus priest is publicly seen for who he really is. The emperor is naked. The self appointed spin doctor of Mpisi ducks Jazi's tough public questions & instead, like umgulukudu ofake i-balaclava, invites uJazi into a dark corner. How many of us will he drag into that dark alley & "sort us out" ebumnyameni? Ngiya phinda futhi: ayi dumi kanje ma izo suka!
Posted By: Sibambamahawu Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/24/08 03:30 AM
uShamase wangempela! Umqwashisi - impohlo engenankinga! Igcokama likaNdonga. Ngiyakubingelela njalo nsizwa yakithi, ngalesi isikhathi sekhisimusi ngithanda ukudlulisa izilokotho ezinhle kuwena, ngithi Ube nokhisimusi owuskukela kunye noncibijane onentokozo.

I am sure that you are resorting to empty and uncritical slogans about the top-down, or down-top approach to running organisations. I am not aware of any organisation which in reality has a down-top approach, even the most modernist Brazillian organisations which purport to employ the horizontal and circular structures are not immune to the realities of running the businesses or organisations in a conventional way. In any organisation there are some prerequisite for survival and success, the organisation has to have vision, mission, strategy and should have operational capacity. Somebody must have an idea or vision which he or she thinks that would be beneficial to the people, that individual will then articulate his ideas to other people. If a few people buy into his ideas, then those very people will be his disciples, who will then spread the good news. Therefore the notion of a down-up approach is effectively a nullity in practice. What is needed is to put checks in those organisation, to usher in some semblance of democratic dispensation, whereby the masses will be give greater rights and autonomy in influencing the strategic direction of the movement. I have my own misgivings for the MPC but it does not help for me to criticise from the peripherals. I am happy, for you are aware that the old man is a goon, but what confuses me is your unwavering belief in whatever he says. It seems to me that you are one of those who envy this man, who think that he is educated and knowledgeable. Let us not resort to textbook and political mantra about the top-down approach, let us be critical and "innovative" and exercise some originality in our analysis. I am not sure what is going on, this unlike you, it appears that you now resort to sweeping statements a lot, what happened to your well-thought-out, well-articulated and superb approach to doing business?
Posted By: Muntongenakudla Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/24/08 07:17 AM
Sibambimidlelo, don't let your heart rule your head & your hope to prevail over common sense. Politics is different from business. Abalandeli benhlangano yepolotiki march to a completely different drum than aba sebenzi kwi bhizinisi. One man can form a company & employ millions, kukhale isicathulo sakhe yedwa, inkampani idlondlobale. But ayikho inhlangano yepolotiki ephumelela nge top-down politics. This is why kunama 1 man & his dog flops like PUMA, ZAPU Madlela, ZAPU 2000, ZAPU Nkala (l think it was a moron from Nkayi), ZAPU Siwela, ZUM, UANC kaMzorewa, the still-born Mpisi, Mavambo-Kusile etc. These formations failed coz they were not inspired by the spirit of the people on the ground. Uquqaba always wants to own a mass movement & choose leaders they know & trust. Leaders that emerge right among lolo quqaba, fortified by ukuzabalaza side by side everyday - fostering mutual trust. Uquqaba alufuni kutshelwa - they resist being subordinate to self annointed leaders that seek to invite them to join into abanga yazi ihloseni ngempela. Uquqaba are always wary & suspicious of the motives of ama top-down political leaders. They question everything coz they doubt the openness & honesty of these top-down politicians. Buka how Makoni was labelled a Zanu decoy. Same applied to Tekere & Zum. Buka manje nakhu sidikadikana no Mzekezeke ll (read Kirth Dube) weMpisi yakhe efile.
Posted By: Bhudaza Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/24/08 10:39 AM
On the contrary Sibambamahawu's analysis is spot on so much as we understand the role of shareholders in an organisation or company. The shareholders and employees are different stakeholders. Even then employees have rights too and can be represented.

So really MPC has no obligation to non-members particularly if they adopt a certain tone. They well could be MDC (or any other competing political body) officials worried about the competition they face for political space in Matabeleland. Just like a firm like Tesco will have detractors from ASDA for instance.

So really when we look deeply the arguments on "top down, down up" are like the grand chicken and egg riddle.

Originally Posted by Muntongenakudla
Sibambimidlelo, don't let your heart rule your head & your hope to prevail over common sense. Politics is different from business. Abalandeli benhlangano yepolotiki march to a completely different drum than aba sebenzi kwi bhizinisi. One man can form a company & employ millions, kukhale isicathulo sakhe yedwa, inkampani idlondlobale. But ayikho inhlangano yepolotiki ephumelela nge top-down politics. This is why kunama 1 man & his dog flops like PUMA, ZAPU Madlela, ZAPU 2000, ZAPU Nkala (l think it was a moron from Nkayi), ZAPU Siwela, ZUM, UANC kaMzorewa, the still-born Mpisi, Mavambo-Kusile etc. These formations failed coz they were not inspired by the spirit of the people on the ground. Uquqaba always wants to own a mass movement & choose leaders they know & trust. Leaders that emerge right among lolo quqaba, fortified by ukuzabalaza side by side everyday - fostering mutual trust. Uquqaba alufuni kutshelwa - they resist being subordinate to self annointed leaders that seek to invite them to join into abanga yazi ihloseni ngempela. Uquqaba are always wary & suspicious of the motives of ama top-down political leaders. They question everything coz they doubt the openness & honesty of these top-down politicians. Buka how Makoni was labelled a Zanu decoy. Same applied to Tekere & Zum. Buka manje nakhu sidikadikana no Mzekezeke ll (read Kirth Dube) weMpisi yakhe efile.
Posted By: Serwanz Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/24/08 12:35 PM
Angiqavi knex ngeze politricks kodwa I know ukuthi ipolitricks ziyayi affecta impilo yami ngithanda ngingathandi.

Zamani ma politicians, indoda ngecuya izamile!
Posted By: JJMATSHETSHE Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/24/08 01:05 PM
Bhudaza, Ube loKhisimusi omuhle mfowethu.Siphide sidibane ngo 2009 sistrong.

Uthi wena iMPC has no obligation to non members........

Akufunde lokhu okubhalwe yileadership ye MPC ku page 1.


Quote
Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? [Re: Jazelindizayo]
Kirth_Dube Kirth_Dube



Jazi,
Mnumzane forgive me for including your pseudo name on the list mentioned above. Liphutha elenzekile, where the sentence could have read 'critisisms' and 'insults' it read 'insults' only.I hope you will genuinly accept my apology.

On the issues you raise in the response above, How about if I could furnish you with the details through email if you can forward yours to me.
These are my email addresses: director.communications@mthwakazionline.com or kirthdube@rocketmail.com.

I invite you to respond positively at my request Sir.
_________________________
Too bad that all the people who really know how to run the country are busy driving taxi cabs and cutting hair.(George Burns)


Sounds like;

Dear Sir

We sincerely apologise for the serious error in our communication by including your name amoungst the other two lolunye nje uquqaba. Wena kawusi Sgo kodwa bonke banguye.

We have a strategic document for your scrutinity and therefore humbly requests that you accept it as a token of appeasement at this time of Christmas.We are aware that you requested this information in public but ngoba wena u.......

Wu Thixo !!!!ngiyenqena ukuqhubeka ngitolika ngoba kubhaliwe nje.


I tokenism engaka!!! What a Christmas present. I suppose thus political maturity ye MPC.

Posted By: duze Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/24/08 01:42 PM
Bhudaza mfo kunjani. uyibeke so simply mfo uqedile. ngolimi olulula nolucacileyo. futhi nje lamadoda afuna ukushelwa. naleMPC ilunge thu matshi mani. ingcengani ebantwini abaziwa kamhlophe ukuthi abahambisani nezinqumo zokukhulula uMthwakazi. tell them u a not wanted , declined and shut it. we will not kill them as they do to those who differ to them. asifani nabo thina. abaweweme sesiyazi ngabo.
Posted By: Jah Dingani Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/24/08 04:50 PM
Bantu beNkosi any criticism of MPC should not stretch to any form of total condemnation and any form of exercised redicule. I am not party to such hysterical stuff. We should be objective and point out key issues that are of concern that need addressing. Going beyond such is indeed unpatriotic and destructive. This should distinguish the true critics of this organisation from those who are bent on seeing the anhilation and total destruction of the movement. There is nothing criminal about self determination except in the eyes of the oppressors and subjugators of the vanquished and the oppressed.
Posted By: dingane Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/24/08 06:34 PM
I am really surprised as to how the MPC came into this topic titled ?Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini?? What is the motivation for uJazi to bring a topic under the disguise of uDabengwa and then take it upon himself to bully and put down amadonda akhithi azama ukuvuselela uMthwakazi.
UJazi criticises and ridicules MPC for being a cyber political party, yet he is guilty himself of spending more time than anyone on iNkundla. In fact uJazi as far as I can remember, was on iNkundla prior to the ?cyber? birth of iMPC. What has Jazi done for Mthwakazi besides his long postings spitting out vernomous anti-Mthwakazi propaganda. I'm very sure those of us that have been in the site long enough will agree with me. I?m not saying it?s wrong for uJazi to have a different view but I?m merely highlighting his cyber history on uMthwakazi.

MPC like any other organization in the world has it problems and challenges. To then take the challenges of MPC, magnify them and then say therefore it is a failure is rather naive. The way I see it, I think it very malicious for some of us to ask MPC leadership to come out in open and "die for what they believe in". This is old-school politics and those that talk about it wouldn't even dare die for their children. That is a fact! Again what is the motivation, Jazi? As a matter of fact uZwangendaba, uDube and Shamase are all out in the open. Yes, they will be challenges but the Mthwakazi secession issue is bigger than any one of us. Who knows we might not see it in our lifetime but at least we can tell our children we tried. To some of our sellout brothers who think MPC is a 3-men organization I say please give us a break. We are here, we are who we are, we believe in MPC, we believe in our cause and we also believe in Mthwakazi!!
Indeed it is very surprising and disheartening to see our very own so-called educated and intelligent people choose to ignore repression by the enemy for financial benefits. When the enemy has used and abused them at the expense of their people and the financial gains obuthengisi are dried up they go back to their own people and say ZAPU this and that!! Who is fooling who? Again, bafowethu what is the motivation?
Posted By: MTHWENTWEHLABA1 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/24/08 09:45 PM
Enkundleni
Phambili ngomzabalazo. Ibambeni lingayeki. Amacebo angeza. Ulunya vele asihambelani lalo. Uyazi ulunya vele lwadalwa kudaladala lamatshelamatshe engakancwebeki. Luyazakala ulunya luthutsha kude ezintabeni le.
Abantu abakhayo bayaziwa njalo abadingi kutshela muntu ukuthi bazokwakha. Kakho ongabaqambela njalo ethi bayadiliza. There is nothing like we want to silence people. There is nothing here near anything one can call dictatorship. It is not possible anyway to practice dictatorship on an internet forum. Sometimes abantu abadala bayajika bazenze abantwana. Nxa umuntu ezazi yena ukuthi kadilizi okwakhiwa ngabanye yini engamhlupha nje.
Ababhidlizi yibo abale nkinga la, sebezenza bona abakhayo. Criticism constructive or otherwise is not even the issue. The issue is a few individuals who are on assingment to destroy our baby.
As for debating, people have always debated here, differing interests in topics, flourish on this forum daily.
It is the vernom, spite intended to the liberation of Mthwakazi that I strongly oppose.
Those of you saying people , myself or anyone dont want you to air your views, it is not true. Remember you also are not agreeing to their views, why should they agree with you when you have different opinions as you say you are being hated for your different views? Lies,lies, lies. Everyone has a right to air their views here. Killing MPC is what we refuse. Your views are always needful here, its being killed thatwe dont agree with,Simple.
Posted By: Zwangendaba Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/25/08 05:31 AM
Bafowethu.

Ngilibingelele ngilifisele iKHISIMUSI ENHLE ngithi asibambisaneni umango njalo kumnyaka ongenayo.

MPC has made mistakes before, MPC makes mistakes today, MPC shall make mistakes as it navigates through these rough waters.

Kodwa what we can assure you is that we make those mistakes in a genuine attempt to chart a way as we perceive that will BRING about DIGNITY to our people.

Everything that we do, we do in GOOD FAITH. We make efforts to engage our citizens either as a group or as individuals. It is not SPITE of the other FORUMITES if we invite an individual to discuss any subject with them. These are techniques we percieve will help us put our message across. We beg the citizens of Mthwakazi bear with us. Please do not feel offended.

We shall continue to employ those techniques as some people express themselves well in private whilst others do so in public. This technique has worked wonders for MPC.

SIYALIBONGA LONKE ELISIPHATHISAYO.

Li Zwangendaba.

Posted By: mg_d Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/25/08 10:14 PM
Zwangendaba ngethemba uyidle kahle ikhisimusi uhlanganele labanye lami ngokunjalo mfowethu ayabongeka amazwi akho ,kodwa mina manje ngibona ingathi sku enough for this year ngeMPC what we need to do now is to have a way forward MPC belong to Mthwakazi not the leaders so ake liyithathe lyise ebantwini phela amacard siyawafuna sifuna ukujoyina leliqembu ,mina ngibona angathi we will waste a lot of time waiting ayihlome ihlasele madoda mina ngilesifiso sokuthi nxa ngihamba ezitaradini egoli ngigqoke isikipa se MPC sizibonakalise ukuthi sikhona umgabedoyi ngeke afe so he needs to know ukthi sekukhona iparty ethize efuna ukuhlukanisa amanzile fish oil ngoba akuhlangani. ake sibashukumiseni madoda.
Posted By: MTHWENTWEHLABA1 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/26/08 01:11 PM
Our eyes are always open. The mandate will definitely be sought and acquired by MPC when they are on the ground, just like everything else which will be done according to ukuhlela kwe MPC.
Posted By: MTHWENTWEHLABA1 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/26/08 01:16 PM
Come on man, the issue in question is abantu who just want to kill this party. Those seeking to help whichever way are not part of that.
Posted By: MTHWENTWEHLABA1 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/26/08 01:18 PM
You are just not a serious man. So unstable in your ways.
Posted By: Mthakathi27 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/27/08 11:54 AM
Originally Posted by MTHWENTWEHLABA1
You are just not a serious man. So unstable in your ways.

I just do not get it man. Why stoop so low. I am happy you are not the official spokesperson for the MPC. I shudder to think to what toilet levels you would drag this party to. You are a simpleton of no substance at all. You are failing to engage us intelligently. Jazi, for example has raised very pertinent issues of stick and carrot, but you chose to ignore him.
Posted By: Jah Dingani Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/27/08 12:54 PM
We need to peel off emotionalism in this for us to articulate well what MPC stands for. Anything heavily clouded and or pregnant with emotionalism will not get us anywhere.
Posted By: MTHWENTWEHLABA1 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/27/08 03:24 PM
Uyabona mfo even inhlamba ongi accuse ngazo phambilini, I dont know them, aziphumi kumapostings ami, I mean I dont even know the meaning the words. I thought you said in one of your postings ukhuluma lenyi ndoda, something like "if I may borrow your word" Yini namhlanje susithi yimi engihlambaza ngalawo magama?

Wena ungezwa umuntu ethi cabal lawe suyatsho njalo, ungezwa umuntu ethi stooping low lawe sulingisela, freedom of expression lawe sugijima ngayo, cyberspace "this and that" lawe sunguye lowo. Lithi lingakatshoni ilanga sokunguwe othi "unconditionally support". This is lacking in originality if I may say. You are up and down, cold and hot. This is what I mean mangithi you are unstable in all your ways. You have no idea of your own.

All I ever said to you is that dont destroy MPC.

About the MPC spokesperson, forget about playing that card, I m not falling for it. Thats cheap stuff, you cant fool me.

Uthi wena iMPC ayingene on the ground lami ngiyavuma, layo iyavuma. ON TOP OF THAT I SAID FOR NOW THEY ARE STILL CALLING US TO COME AND BUILD INHLANGANISO. And whats "stooping low" about this?

There are no pertinent issues I m ignoring. I said there has been said "kuqalwa ngokukhasa umntwana engakagijimi" It is a simple equation madoda angazi liphezu kwani?





Posted By: JJMATSHETSHE Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/27/08 08:20 PM


Ku Baba uZwangendaba

Quote
We make efforts to engage our citizens either as a group or as individuals.

Sekuyacaca. Besesimangaliswa yikudonswa kukaJazi ehohobiselwa ngasese-(strike the shepard and all the sheep will scatter tactic). As if he is our shepard! yet abantu have their genuine concerns, some of which are identintical to what he and others are raising. Simple put , answering him in the public forum may obviously help address issues zabanye abalandeli beMPC. And I agree with you , your tactic does work 'wonders'.

Iyezwakala ke diplomacy yakho. Its reassuaring to realise imithakithiki enje kulinhlanganiso yethu esibhekelele insindiso kaMthwakazi. Kuyabonakala ukuthi kusasa izimoko mazivela iMPC izoyibhula imililo nge khono layo.

Sithengisele li MPC sihlobo, mhlawumbe ingasiza abantu bakithi.
Posted By: Mthakathi27 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/28/08 11:22 AM
Mthwe
I think it is unwise to continue dignifying your vitriol. I will tell you one thing my friend, predictability is a virtue of a donkey, as Gandhi said. You are so predictable. So you can not expect the same with me. Good luck.
Posted By: MTHWENTWEHLABA1 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/29/08 11:38 AM
Originally Posted by Mthakathi27
Mthwe
I think it is unwise to continue dignifying your vitriol. I will tell you one thing my friend, predictability is a virtue of a donkey, as Gandhi said. You are so predictable. So you can not expect the same with me. Good luck.

Mtha
Uzwile angitsho.

As for me forget about me, angiqakathekanga, into esingayo yinkululeko. Ma usiza lembono yakho no one has a right to condemn them, those would be your ideas and must be respected as such. Ukudiliza yikho kuphela ozothola ukuthi abantu bayakusola ngoba akulunganga.
Ukuxoxisana kuhle mfowethu, hatshi ukudiliza okwakhiwa ngabanye. Ngiyethemba uyake uyibone iPM'S Question Time. Akula kuthukana lapha, akula kubhidliza okwakhiwa ngabanye. Not that the PM s Question Time is our standard, but surely we can learn something from such things.
Posted By: JJMATSHETSHE Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/29/08 12:42 PM
Quote
The issue is a few individuals who are on assingment to destroy our baby.
.


Mthwe.

Nansi imibono yami ngalo umbhalo wakho ongaphezulu.

As an MPC supporter I think we should let our baby to be examined by people.All babies go through such a process and that should not kill them if they are not meant to die. Some are examined by paediatricians or even neonatologists and others are examined by aunts and uncles. You have seen clan members examining the baby and approving or disapproving on the grounds of flat nose, bone structure, shape of the head , lips, rickets, flat foot, hair texture, skin colour , behaviour etc. Normal babies do not get destroyed by those examinations. They thrive irregardless and will grow to play football with their so called rickets , flat feet or long head.

If you see a baby getting destroyed by any examination you should know that s/he is not compartible with life anyway and therefore let the natural process occur. Being pre occupied by how delicate this baby MPC is will not help us. How about focusing our time and resources in selling the MPC to the people instead of wasting them in ukubhula imililo? Ongafuniyo uyayeka Mthwe but I am not for an ukubhula umlilo markerting strategy because its so draining.

Posted By: ozithembayo Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/29/08 07:15 PM
Kuyezwakala lokhu bandla. Nxa umuntu eletha eyakhe ingqondo laye uyalalelwa. Asithathe okuhle kwakhona silahle okungahambisi kahle. UMugabe singamfuzi ngokwala ukusolwa besesisithi osolayo uthunyiwe. Yikho okubulala isizwe, abantu besebezithulela lanxa bekubona usiya engozini ngoba besesaba ukuthi bazaziqalela bangakulimukisa.
Posted By: MTHWENTWEHLABA1 Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/30/08 06:47 PM
JJ
No no no no. Ungangifunzi mtakababa into engingazidliyo. It is simple wethu, indaba le iqonde nta, kayifuni rula, yona yiyo eqondisa irula.
Bonke abahlola umntwana kabamhlole njengoba usitsho. Akusibo wethu engikhuluma ngabo laba. Ngikhuluma ngomuntu oza ethwele isagila eqonde ukuchobodisa ukhakhayi luka nana.

Simply that, not even one who has been misunderstood as such.Singenzi indaba emfitshane kangaka ibende. Unless you dont believe there are such people khona la kuInkundla but I m sorry I do.
Impilo ende kuwe.
Posted By: dingane Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/30/08 07:13 PM
Hlaba-1,

Well put m'fethu! Abantu bezagila should never be allowed ukuhlola umntwana for obvious reasons.
I hope in the coming New Year abantu laba bazabeka phansi izagila zabo be sebenze ndawonye leMPC ekuqhubekiseni uMthwakazi. Isikhathi sesiside sibili!
Posted By: ozithembayo Re: Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini? - 12/30/08 11:20 PM
Siyavumelana lapho wakwethu. Hatshi lami angingeke ngivumelane lalowo ofuna ukudiliza.
Posted By: abedabuko Dabengwa pawn in the game... - 01/01/09 07:26 PM
Africa is affected by one set of evil forces, Dabengwa only presents a segment that addresses narrow minded Africans views, not that he is narrow as a person,or people who see him as a leader are narrow minded no no no. He does does appear through geopolitical lens, or may be through African centered world views.How many of you know fully comprehend Thabo Mbeki not from news bytes[seconds]from [CNN] [BBC][ABC][ FOX NEWS] but in detail scrutinising a man, his origin, his belief system, background, political views, economic views and so on.CNN cannot potray a person in seconds, that is an insight/taste mostly distorted character if the person is not of the neo liberal world views.My point is I bought books about Thabo from right wing to left wing, i know him fairly.He is a typical black African freedom fighter.So Dabengwa is narrow only emerges through alternative choices, rather broad appealing [PAN CENTERED WAYS]Thabo presents a black model not a Ndebele or Shona but a black person based on broad African world views.
I come from that schol of thought not ethincity but African world views presenting all black people no matter your ethnicity, we are all discriminated. Thabo represents that kind of scope not cheap narrow views based on hatred.This website can teach people to people themswelves only if we mature and grow in our world views.Do not conform to views that potray black as portions we are one big fa,ily affected by one set of evils.Shona s are discminated, so we vvea, Xhosa, Tsonga, Yoruba , Jamaicans, Afro Americans, Afro Cubans we are all one big demonized family.
Posted By: Sibambamahawu Re: Dabengwa pawn in the game... - 01/01/09 07:44 PM
As long as you seek to demean and demonise Ndebeles i will view you and your postings with suspicion. You have not said anything positive about Ndebeles, you seek to portray Ndebeles as tribalistic and narrow-minded, let me assure you here, you will never win. This nation is a great nation with a marvelous and great history. As long as you ignore the discrimination meted on Ndebeles by their Shona brothers and sisters and seek to trivialize and belittle their world-view you must be sure that you will never win.
Posted By: abedabuko PURE NGUNI BUT AFRICAN CENTERED APPROACH - 01/01/09 08:48 PM
YEBO MFETHU UNGETHUKI, MINA NGINGUMUNTU WABANTU, NGENKOLO NGILI RASTA ANGIVUMI UNKUBONA UMAFRIKA, EQEMBULUZA UMAFRIKA.
MFETHU NGIYI LUNGA LE PAN AFRICAN ORGANISATION IN EUROPE.
I GROUP YETHU IHLANGAHLANGENE AMA YORUBA, AMA IBO, AMA FANTE, AMA TWI, AMA FULANI, AMADINGO ALL FROM WEST AFRICA.YIMI UMZULU[NGUNI] KUPHELA. LAPHA EKHAYA ASIKHULUMI NGEHLANGA, SI KHULUMA NGE [BLACK CONSCIOUSNESS][PAN AFRICANISM]KWESAMI LAPHA AMA SHONA AYANGI QEMBULUZA MINA ANGINA NDABA NGOBA NGIYAZI IQONDO ZABO ZINCANE.MINA NGIBONA ISIZWE ESINYAMA NJENGE MULI INYE.AFRICA FOR AFRICANS!!!I KNOW WHO YOU ARE AS IN THOUGHT I DEAL WITH SUCH MINDED AFRICANS FROM DAILY BASIS.YOU ARE A VICTIM OF CIRCUMSTANCES , YOUR LONG TROUBLED JOURNEY OF ETHNICITY VIEWS,YOUR COMMON THREAT IS WHITE SUPREMACY MY FRIEND, STATUS QUO, IF I KNEW YOU AS A PERSON ON ONE TO ONE I WILL SEND YOU QUALITY BLACK DATA TO RE-EDUCATE YOU PROPERLY.YOU DONT HAVE TO TRUST WHO I AM, BY CONFORMING TO YOUR VIEWS, I AM MORE DEDICATED TO BLACK CAUSES THAN YOU ARE MY FRIEND, WHETHER YOU LIKE OR DIS-LIKE, MY LIFE HAS BEEN FOR THE BLACK CAUSES, FROM BULAWAYO TO WHERE EVER I AM RIGHT NOW, I WILL DIE FOR AFRICA NOT NDEBELE BUT AFRICANS AS A WHOLE.
I HAVE MET THE TYPE OF SHONAS YOU TALKING ABOUT ACROSS EUROPE AND BRITAIN-AFRICA IN ALL MY TRAVELLS, BUT THAT DOES NOT BREED ME TO HATE PEOPLE BASED ON ETHNCITY, I RATHER RE-EDUCATE THEM PATIENTLY
SINCE I UNDERSTAND IGNORANCE IS BLISS. PROVE THEM WRONG MTHAKAZI
UNGATHUKU NGILIQAWE NGEPHELA
Posted By: lungani Re: PURE NGUNI BUT AFRICAN CENTERED APPROACH - 01/02/09 03:13 AM
Abedabuko, i really don't know how old you are and how much you know about the history of that god forsaken country. All your lame ideas have been tried before and all have failed because amaTshona can not be trusted. Our beloved hero, the late Joshua Mqabuko Nkomo tried uniting the Ndebeles and Tshonas in order to fight the white man. He taught them ipolitics one of his students was uMgaxa and i don't need to remind anyone how he turned out. The Tshonas turned on Nkomo because he was Ndebele and i remember how they tried to kill him in the early 80s before he escaped to England. They tortured Lookout Masuku and others. Then left them to die like dogs from their wounds. Yet you turn round and call us narrow minded for trying to stay alive and pass-on this language and culture to our children who are born in foreign lands. Don't ever say we are the same people with these animals. Satsha ngeziwula ezinjengawe....
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