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#29032 08/24/04 01:00 AM
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is THE LORD" the atheist turned back and said i told you to throw away that stupid book the man of God answered " see, He even sunk the Egyptian armies in six inches of water."

the WORD OF GOD IS TRUE BELIEVE IN JESUS.

nxa ufuna ukubona iqiniso follow this link no offense to my Catholic brethren

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/anti14.htm

phephani ngisuke ngaqamulo umbhalo wami.

#29033 08/24/04 01:09 AM
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to use the above link scroll to the bottom and click RESTART. and then read click NEXT to proceed to the next slide. this world is under spiritual deception by those who claim to be vicars of Christ yet they are the seat of satan.

#29034 08/24/04 03:09 AM
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Bafowethu.

If I am born in the house of NGCAMANE, ANCESTOR to NGWANA MASEKO, are my children in the future going to be denied that lineage???

Baba GESTAPO: You did not mention that, WHEN THE DISCIPLES OF JESUS WERE SUMMONED BY THE ROMANS TO COME AND TESTIFY, (which resulted in the TESTAMENTS / TESTIMONIALS of the Bible), a few TESTIMONIALS were not accepted by the RULERS of the LAND at that time. The Disciples were PHILIP, and Mary of MAGADLENE. The RULERS were the ROMANS, who are the ones who started CHRISTIANITY (Because there was no Christianity even during the life of CHRIST).

The TESTIMONIALS of MARY were thrown away all together because the ROMANS, had no place for a WOMAN in the leadership of their church.

The TESTIMONIALS of PHILIP were thrown away outright because they were at varience with what the ROMANS wanted as a foundation of their religion.

CHRISTIANITY is a religion that was created by men, for men. Up to today there are unanswered questions because they do not remember what they managed to destroy and what they did not, in their QUEST TO DESTROY the TRUTH.

HISTORY IS LADEN WITH FACTS THAT CONSTANTINE MURDERED A LOT OF PEOPLE DURING HIS REIGN AND DESTROYED A LOT OF BOOKS. SO DID KING JAMES. WHAT IS IT THAT THEY DID NOT WANT THE WORLD TO KNOW??? HAD THEY DECIDED TO BE THE JUDGES THEMSELVES OF THE "MASSEGE OF GOD"???

With that in mind, how can you expect me to start worshiping a human being who failed to save himself when his innitial mission was to save the world??? OR THE CONSTANTINOS TOLD ME LIES???

MAKHOSI.

Li Zwangendaba.

#29035 08/24/04 11:37 PM
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Bandla

hawu saze sabindana lendaba yosindiso sibabili lingaphi makholwa?

baba Zwangendaba indeed the constantinos misinformed you.

a)Emperor Constantine did not live at the same time with the desciples he became emperor around 532 AD. i don't think those guys could have lasted more than five centuries.

b)Romans did not found christianity and were, and are not christians and willnever be. the term christians was first used in Antioch, see Act 11:26.

c)the bible was not written under the directions of the Romans but the Roman faught against it rather and saught to change it rather. the desciples were not summoned to testify for the compilement of the bible, the term testament mean covenant i.e a sovereign-vassal treaty, a solemn agreement between the sovereign and the vassal.

d) actually it was Nero who killed christians who beheaded Paul and crucified Peter upside down. many christians were killed and falsely accused of causing famine, drought, dizzs and pestilences. so much so that some joined their persecutors and killed their fellow brethren and the bible was cursed, however Constantine claimed repentence and he marched across the
river with his army claiming to be baptised in 532AD and this was the begining of the amalgamation of pure christianity and Roman paganism resulting in an evil concoction called catholicism.

read ancient history closely Constantine gave the power to the bishop of Rome then called Pontiff Maximus from the Babylonian pagan worship.

Jesus' death was and is a necessary means to justify the end.

ithi ngime kancane sizoyiqhuba njalo.

#29036 08/26/04 07:57 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Zwangendaba:
<strong> Bafowethu.

If I am born in the house of NGCAMANE, ANCESTOR to NGWANA MASEKO, are my children in the future going to be denied that lineage???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, not at all and why should they?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Baba GESTAPO: You did not mention that, WHEN THE DISCIPLES OF JESUS WERE SUMMONED BY THE ROMANS TO COME AND TESTIFY, (which resulted in the TESTAMENTS / TESTIMONIALS of the Bible), a few TESTIMONIALS were not accepted by the RULERS of the LAND at that time. The Disciples were PHILIP, and Mary of MAGADLENE. The RULERS were the ROMANS, who are the ones who started CHRISTIANITY (Because there was no Christianity even during the life of CHRIST).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would like to assert ukuthi the Romans were not pro-Christianity but were very ANTI. They had a similar problem with what is happening in Zimbabwe. The Gospel threatened their poltical livelihood because it preached freedom from oppressors. It preached peace-brokering which threatened to disrobe them as they could only use stranglehold tactics to remain in power.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>The TESTIMONIALS of MARY were thrown away all together because the ROMANS, had no place for a WOMAN in the leadership of their church.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well that is the way of the oppressor. They cannot have an open mind but will resort to divisive tactics to remain in power.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>The TESTIMONIALS of PHILIP were thrown away outright because they were at varience with what the ROMANS wanted as a foundation of their religion.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Re-iteration of the fact that the Romans were anti-Christianity. Maybe you could research further to find out exactly the points of variance.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>CHRISTIANITY is a religion that was created by men, for men. Up to today there are unanswered questions because they do not remember what they managed to destroy and what they did not, in their QUEST TO DESTROY the TRUTH.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Who is this 'they' that do not remember what it is they destroyed or not? Is it the Christians or the Romans? Are you saying there was some TRUTH that was destroyed somewhere along the line? If so what was this TRUTH?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>HISTORY IS LADEN WITH FACTS THAT CONSTANTINE MURDERED A LOT OF PEOPLE DURING HIS REIGN AND DESTROYED A LOT OF BOOKS. SO DID KING JAMES. WHAT IS IT THAT THEY DID NOT WANT THE WORLD TO KNOW??? HAD THEY DECIDED TO BE THE JUDGES THEMSELVES OF THE "MASSEGE OF GOD"???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oppressors will always have a lot to hide. Most politicians find themselves running away from themselves in their quest to remain in power. Christianity preaches the opposite of what is required by politicians to remain in power. Hence the murder of persons, destruction of institutions, and eradication of records of all that is Christian. Look closely at the developments in Zimbabwe, Rev Pius Ncube, Rev Ndlovu in Harare and the despot. Remember Rev Desmond Tutu in S. Africa and the Bothas. The Constantines were just the beginnings. The controversy goes on.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>With that in mind, how can you expect me to start worshiping a human being who failed to save himself when his innitial mission was to save the world??? OR THE CONSTANTINOS TOLD ME LIES???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do not worship the human being but God who created the heavens and the earth. Again I would like to re-iterate that God does not need to defend himself from anyone nor does he need to drive his point home by showing physical power or ingenuity to get out of sticky situations. Christ's death on the cross was a victory for all men. Unfortunately the devil places emphasis on the loss of life while ignoring or masking the salvation of all men derived/achieved through the loss of that life.

#29037 08/27/04 04:43 AM
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Bafowethu.

Baba Siphepheli, kunjani??? Wena nya. Besengixoxa lo Gestapo kodwa.

NANSI INDABA: Please go to the following link, http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm and read it calmly and follow the sub links. This will give a bit of History which would have taken me a full year to write on this site.

Then go to the following link, http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm

Take your time bobaba labo mama. These are very long sites.

Particular attention needs be given to the following Subtopics on the same page of the second link:
1. The problems of the Exodus Story.
2. The Christian ERA and the last Great Revision of Judaism. 30CE to approx 73CE. ( MY NOTE: PAUL WROTE HIS BOOKS APPROX. 50 YEARS AFTER CHRIST).
3. The Creation of the Bible As We Know It and YET ANOTHER REVISION. 320CE to 1330CE.
4. The Protestant REVISION and the ENGLISH BIBLES. 1330CE to 1611CE.
5. How Objective Are The Translations, Anyway???
6. How Reliable is the Bible as a Source of GUIDANCE??? (MY NOTE: LISTEN TO THE QUOTE FROM WILLIAM SHAKESPEAR).
7. tHE bIBLE AND cHRISTIANITY IN tHE mODERN wORLD.
8. THE CONCLUSION. THE CONCLUSION.

MAKHOSI.

Li Zwangendaba.

#29038 08/27/04 06:50 AM
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Zwangendaba,

Uzangixolela nkosi yami bengivakatshele kobhutshuzwayo ngiye xukuzisa ugebhezi. Heyi bengangidutshuzi so. Nginduma-mnvinvinya ngilapha nje. Ama-politician awalaxolo baba noma ungaze uye kibo ugqoke ezoxolo lokuthula bayakukarabha kuphela.
Sengikhona njalo. Ungabona ngithe nya kwezinye izikhathi ngiyabe ngiswele ukuthi ngingene ngaliphi.
Ngisayoxukuzisa ugebhezi kulama'links' osithume kiwo.

#29039 08/29/04 07:32 PM
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Baba Zwangendaba,

Ungixolele sengisuke ngaphangisa ukuphenduka enkundleni. Ngivulile ama'links' ongilayezele wona. Ngixukuzisile ugebhezi. Njengokutsho kwakho kubanzi okumunyethwe kiwo. Ngakho kunzima ukuthi ngiphendule comprehensively. So njengomuntu ongathi ulesidensi engqondweni ngizabe ngisithi ngingabalabala ngixukuzise ugebhezi, ngephule engizabe sengikuhluzile.

The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ.

Judging from the introductory paragraphs I am struck by a politically and intellectually biased analysis of Christianity by the author, as opposed to the spiritual. I tend to assert the Rev Gestapo's perceptions.

It must be appreciated that the issue of Jesus at that time was as sensitive as the issue of our opposition party in Mgaxaland. It would therefore have been the prudent thing for any detractors/critics/writers to diligently avoid being caught in a politically in-correct position. In other words the political muscle at that time was hell-bent not to acknowledge the existence of a 'Messianic' king who had come to free the oppressed and poor. Acknowledgement would have precipitated a long overdue uprising by the oppressed and enslaved populace. Therefore a lot of effort and expense was expended in muzzling the press, humanitarian agencies and the churches. Ring a bell?

In the criticisms I smell contamination or should we say propaganda propagated by the political power I shall not mention by name to avoid controversy. But for those who would care to read both the Biblical and historical accounts of Jesus and Christianity the identity of this power will explicitly or should we say implicitly reveal itself.

I sensed some hacking randomly away in the criticisms whereby the phenomenon of different perceptions by different individuals is wholistically lampooned as depicting lack of authenticity. If a group of persons/individuals were to visit our Mosi-oa-Tunya and then requested to give personal narrations/perceptions of the falls, a 'careless' analysis of the different accounts will reveal more different perceptions than identical ones. It would be appreciated that one individual will be struck by the thunderous din of the falls, while another by the sheer depth of the same falls, another by the beauty of the rainbows, another by the tropical beauty of the rain-forest and so on and so forth. Would that therefore suggest that the falls is a myth? I hope not.

But if the different perceptions are combined together, a bigger and more comprehensive picture will emerge. The 'different' accounts of Jesus and Christians all deal with the same issues but from individually different perceptions. The Gospels themselves corroborate this. What one does not touch surely does not suggest that it is false if depicted in another gospel. Go to a Highlanders match, would all the fans see the action in exactly the same way? No. Why? Obviously, different angles and perceptions. But the end result will be the same High-High 1 - Njube Sundowns 0.

Another issue that strikes an awry note as far as I am concerned is the allusion to Christians who are anti-Jesus without being specific as to their leanings. A lot of intellectualism is used to shore up their criticisms as opposed to spiritualism which would have been the main modus operandi of the followers of Jesus. Who were these 'christians'? Could they not be the kind of critics/writers/journos of the ilk that we see today in Mgaxaland who would take advantage of adverse conditions to gain some professional mileage by going with the persistent tides as the situation demanded?

It seems that most historical researches are fraught with arguments/disagreements that tend to lead both the researchers and the beneficiaries of such researches in a dog-bite-own-tail scenario. Look in our own forum-led historical accounts. No concesus. Should we therefore relegate our history to the netherlands of mythology just because there is no concesus amongst our researchers/contriburors? Each one tries to assert their own ideas and perceptions over and above those of the next fellow. Who becomes the final authority in those deliberations?

But I believe combining the different opinions/ideas/perceptions we should be able to come out with a more comprehensive result. But human nature will not allow that state of affairs to exist. These same detractors/critics of Jesus and Christianity are/were also human. If you care to remember I have said it before that if only the assertion 'self' would die then there will be a consensus amongst the human beings.

Ngizaphenduka njalo. Ikhanda selitshisa njengomuntu ongajwayele this kind of mental ping-pong. Ngisayoxukuzisa ugebhezi.

#29040 08/30/04 04:04 AM
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Bafowethu.

Ummmhhh!! Siphepheli, ngiyakubona ubuye leNDUKU elesiduku esinzima. UbuseZizweni impela.

Kodwa phela singakhohlwa ukuthi yonke into engani kayiqondanga, ibiza ufeya. Bayaqala abantu ukusola nxa into ingani ilomnuko, loba uzwakalela khatshana.

Yikho lapho engizama ukuthi indaba ibe khona.

Nxa into imsulwa, akudingi ukuthi abantu bayihluze. Kodwa nxa isiza lugege, bazabakhona abayamkelayo, kube khona ababanjwa ngodli, kube khona izanqondo ezithi "YICHAYE EGCEKENI SIQALE SIYIHLUZE". U NKULU-NKULU akumelanga azifihle ebantwini, indlela zakhe zibe yiNsindabaphenduli.

Otherwise uyabuya ndoda. Ngiyayizwa ingalo yakho, uyayibeka induku ekhanda.

Ngisahluzisisa impendulo yakho. Ngiyeza lemibuzo.

Ungadeli, siyabonisana. Kodwa i site le engikuphe yona, yibale sibili.

Li Zwangendaba.

#29041 08/30/04 06:49 PM
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Zwangendaba,

Nxa ngisehla layo indaba yethu, ngokufiphala kwengqonjwana zami ngithola okulandelayo, baba.

Our author mentions"players" with the same or similar attributes although called by different names. I would like to venture out and say different names-different geographical origins but one muntu nje, for instance Krishna in India and Horus in Egypt. The similarities do suggest that these "players" are the same person described by different people in different places at different times. Ngibona angathi babexoxa ngomuntu munye owayebavakatshele bona basebembiza ngesakibo e.g inkomo (Ndebele), mombe(Zezuru), ngombe (Khalanga), vache (France), cow (English), bovis (Latin), kuh (German) and so on and so forth. Notwithstanding is the fact that all the peoples mentioned used different calendars, and therefore the spaghetti like controversy of the dates is bound to be the result, whereas the issue is simple and straight forward.

The differences in the attributes of his "players" could also be attributable to the different perceptions precipitated by the prevailing cicumstances of the percievers when they encountered this person with so many names. The major contributor to the existence of these differences would be that age-old human attitude "ngingcono kulawe so konke okwami kungcono kulokwakho". Uyayibona ke indaba. Awubheke khona phakathi kwethu thina nxa silanda umlando wendabuko yethu. Isipunepune umtshado we***doyi baba. You can more or less accurately identify the ethnicity of whoever will be giving the account ngoba uzothola i'embellishment of those aspects that allude to the superiority of the narrator. Sengiyakuthola futhi lokhu okuyinto emlandweni womlobi wethu.

Nanzelela baba ukuthi I am not in any way condoning this nepotistic attitude but acknowledging its existence phakathi kwabantu. Lesi yiso isifo esesibhidlize iChristianity. Christianity is blind to ethnic/race origins. Israel's God is as much Africa's God. God is universal. Engabizwa ngamagama amanengi ahlukeneyo kodwa munye kuphela qha. The Bible asserts and re-iterates this fact through and through, right throughout from Genesis to Revelations.(Join a Bible Study).

Ungakhangela ke kithi abantu uthola sesifuna ukuba ngo major shareholder endabeni zakoMlimu. Uyangithola sengibhuqukeza ngidinga ukuba labantu bami abazangilandela. Akusikho Christianity lokhu. Yibugovu. Phambi kukaNkulunkulu, mina ,wena lomfundisi, same fanana. There obviously will exist physiological, academical, mental, and spiritual differences between people kodwa kuNkulunkulu kufana lama'dots in a dot matrix picture besekusthi mina lawe in our differences we build the bigger portrait which shows the brilliance of God's creation.

What am I saying lapha? All these religions are spending time critically analysing their differences which they think are downfalls. They need to unite under Christ who would consolidate their differences into one beautiful artefact of salvation. The continued biased scrutiny of one by another is what leads to the creation of "man-gods". Our author stands guilty of this same crime.

Our author seems to neglect the gravitational rotation of his !players" around the nucleus of Christianity (Jerusalem). Most of these are from the Middle/Far east and Central Europe. There is a marked absence of players from the netherlands of Africa, Australia or the USA. What is it they are fighting over so much? Ngeyomdeni? I also note that the further you drift away from the nucleus the more bastardised or corrupted this issue of Christianity becomes.(Science?) These "players" are all a fickle replication or representation of the real thing. I sense a lot of biased analysis of one by another except by the real thing.

Nxa siphenduka eduze lapha. The Missionaries who came to Africa did not have ulterior motives. But as they say in the UK, no man liveth outside politics , the men of the cloth got inadvertetly caught in the web of politics and thereby misrepresented Christianity. Mina ngikhala ngepolitics ngithi yizo ezimbi hatshi iChristianity. Ngibona sengazathi umlobi laye uza ngepoltics kundaba yakhe le. Man is the major culprit in the corruption of Christianity and everything it entails eg freedom of the oppressed, sovereignity, independence etc (ring a bell?)

Phew! Sokutshisa okulikhanjana kwami futhi. Ngisake ngithi hemu ngithi bhode ngale ngiyoxukuzisa ugebhezi njalo.

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