"The conclusion that she had Zulu ancestry would indicate that Oprah's mitochondrial DNA lineage must have had an identical match to someone in the global database who was identified as a Zulu individual," Prof Soodyall said.
Prof Soodyall pointed out, however, that genetic lineages did not correspond precisely to cultural or linguistic groups such as the Zulu nation.source bbc:15/06/2008, available on their website [/qoute].
i am not disputing that lembas are jews. this is not open for debate because lembas are lembas and jews are jews but they may have shared ancestors who most likely were neither jews nor lembes but something else.why do you continue to insist on lembas being jews when logically they are clearly not.
[quote] prof Soodyall pointed out, however, that genetic lineages did not correspond precisely to cultural or linguistic groups
There you go again making authoritative and substantive statements which are NOT backed up by form of evidence - credible or otherwise. Since when did you become the doyen of what is and what is not open for debate? You state that
why do you continue to insist on lembas being jews when logically they are clearly not.
I am tempted to ask what logic given the lack thereof in some of the arguments that you make!! It is not a case of me insisting that the Lemba are Jews or you insisting that they are not, rather it is a case of what the Lemba say about their identity. Do they say that they are Jews or not? For the upteenth time allow me to make this simple points
a) it is not the scientist or Channel four who foisted upon the Lemba the issue of Jewish ancestry.
b) It is the Lemba themselves who have claimed Jewish ancestry as narrated via oral history. Indeed some of them have claimed to be Jews (demonstrated below).
c) Moreover a medical practioner a Dr Wapnick states:-
?When I was a resident in Harare,Zimbabwe, I noted that Tay Sacks, Nieman-Pick and other diseases prevalent among Jews were present in some of my black patients. I wondered then if they were of Jewish origin....."
source - http://www.kulanu.org/newsletters/1999-summer.pdf
d)Scientific investigation/s were carried out into these claims. Again at this juncture I would like to pose the question that you have studiously ignored - If not through scientific investigation how do you propose that the claims of the Lemba be verified?
e) The scientific study/ies have come back and seem to support their claim of Jewish ancestry.
f) This together with their cultural practices appears to validate their claim of being Jews.
g) there does not appear to any articles published in the scientific press that dispute the specific genetic studies carried out on the Lemba. I have not come across any and neither, would it, appear have you. The disputation of Prof Soodyall appears to be a general one rather than specific and relating to the studies on the Lemba.
Now what or where in the above narrative (a-g) is illogical?
While you may dismiss the genetic ancestry with what is fast becoming customary arrogance how do you explain the oral history of the Lemba that claims Jewish ancestry? How do you explain the prevalence amongst the Lemba of diseases that present in Judaic populations? How do you explain the cultural similarities between Judaic peoples and the Lemba?
I would be grateful if you would see it fitting to answer these and earlier questions that I have posed to you rather than the seemingly baseless assertions that you have been blurting out.
To return to the issue of what the Lemba say about themselves, in 1999, a Professor Matshaya Mathivha then president of the Lemba Cultural Association (SA) stated
?You can?t deny us the history and the origin. Many things were built up here [in Africa] and we have developed as a community here. But we are Jews from Palestine, whether the Jews in Israel like it or not.?
Thus to paraphrase the Lemba are jews whether or not mpumelelo101 of the ether likes it or not!! But on a more serious note what the good Professor is alluding to above is the notion that because they have now settled in Southern africa their culture, norms ideas and ideals have evolved and may thus not be 100% similar or compatible with the mainstream Jews of Israel, but nonetheless the core Judaic principles remain intact.
The question of identity is an imnportant one - what is clear is that the Lemba seemingly identify themselves as Jews seemingly on the basis of their oral tradition (backed up by science) while on the other you do not identify them as Jews for reasons that thus far remain murky.
Whose definition of who the Lemba are should prevail- that which they have come up with themselves or one which you are seeking to foister on them?