Albert Nyathi
interviewed by outanational i, Africa Centre, 20 July 2001

Albert, what is the difference between being an imbongi and being a pop star?

(laughs) Well, I wouldn't consider myself a pop star, really. An imbongi is
a traditional praise poet, or a praise singer. I think in places like up north
in Africa they would call him a griot . A traditional praise poet… and this
comes from Ndebele or Zulu, as you know its more or less the same
language. This is where a praise poet used to "praise" the king, and in the
process actually look at  grey areas within the king's policies, right?

How did you become an imbongi?

Well, it all started way back, right from schools that I went to.  I used to
perform traditional praise poetry, but I was really inspired by the struggle,
generally.  I eventually started to write at secondary school. I grew out of
that tradition and when I went to university I was so influential within the s
tudents representative body,  that for each rally or each meeting they invited
me. And if they wanted more  students to come for that meeting, they would
actually say "Albert Nyathi will be there". And that's how it grew from there.
Around 1990, I started fusing poetry with music because I realised that my
audience was limited. I wanted to speak to more people and here was I with
these poems written, but I wanted to blow life into them, to blow life into a
dead word. This is how it started to work. In 1989 I was at college, at the
university. I was I was studying arts. I was invited to play  the leading role of
Nelson Mandela in a play called "The Spirit of No Surrender". What I'm really
trying to say, 1990s were the beginning for me, although I'd started way back.

You've spoken about the imbongi being part of Ndebele culture… do you see
yourself as someone who makes Ndebele music, or do you see yourself as an
Ndebele who makes music? (Nyathi laughs) Putting it another way, how important
is being Ndebele for the kind of music that you make?

Its important because I think if I was another tribe, perhaps it would have been
difficult. Because I wouldn't for instance say (Nyathi switches to Ndebele,
with s's and x's flying), you know? I find I'm proud of being one.

You know that I won't be able to transcribe that?

(mutual laughter…) I know very well. I just… it begins to come to my blood,
just to indicate to you …for me it's very important that I was born one,
because the language is beautiful, I love it.

Historically there has been tension between Shona and Ndebele people, to
what extent are you able to cross over to a Shona audience in Zimbabwe?

Actually, I live in Harare. I crossed over as I went for studies at college.
There was only one university at the time, and interestingly, I've been
accepted in the whole country, throughout the country, across borders.
Because not everyone understands Ndebele in Zimbabwe, and as a result
I found myself fusing my work with English, as you could understand. I think
you quoted me somewhere as… something like "moving across…?".

I said "dissolving the boundaries between South Africa and Zimbabwe"…

Yes, but indeed the ability to communicate with the Danish, with the
English, with the Swedes, and so on and so forth, has come through the
fact that I realised that Ndebele are a limited audience. Limited to
Zimbabwe, to South Africa and to Swaziland. So  that's why I fused
all this with English, with music of course, because music is music
wherever you go. And actually what's interesting is that every single
show that I've done, in this country or elsewhere, even at home, has
been a success.

How has the Zimbabwean music industry been affected by the problems
of the economy…I don't know much about the industry but I know its
been there for quiet a while. Is it surviving, is it developing, is it struggling?
Do you find that you have to think international in order to be professional?
To what extent are you able to make a living, not only yourself, but other
people in the industry in Zimbabwe itself?

My honest opinion about Zimbabwean music at the moment is that somehow
it's in a cage, it's caught up somewhere. I've two views, the one view is that
it has entered the international market. But within home you find that there is
a specific type that remains enclaved, in some cave, and there is not much
growth as a result. I would not like the kind of music that repeats
"I love you/ I love you/ I love you" (repeats in Shona then laughs). I'm repeating
what I heard President Mugabe saying one day during his birthday... An aspect
of it is not growing, but on the other hand you'll realise that it's catching international
exposure and it's acceptable, as I see it. You have Thomas Mapfumo,
Lovemore Majaivana, Imbizo,  Oliver Mtukudzi, Stella Chiwese,  Black Umfolosi …
there is some degree of acceptability. In fact I think from what I've seen, wherever
I see a Zimbabwean group performing, its just been a success.
We meet, by the way, outside Zimbabwe.

But record sales within Zimbabwe itself, is that picking up, or is it stagnant?

It's not a problem really, it's a challenge, where you have some kind of classes,
"class". There are those artists that will be bought mainly in the urban areas.
There are others that will sell in the farms and the towns,  that goes with the
townships. Those that sell well in the townships normally sell well in farms, and
that's the one that I think is lacking growth, movement. But also equally,  people
have become parochial, the system,  the  Zimbabwean Broadcasting Corporation-
very like myopic, kind of blinkered about music. You have mbube music, right?
You know Ladysmith Black Mambazo? You have that quiet a lot at home, and
you find someone playing it less in favour of what I'd call the countryside music
-quick, quick, fast, quick, quick, you know… but I think there is some change
though. The ordinary people do appreciate mbube music, but some deejays have
a problem. But equally, we have a problem with the West in Zimbabwe. There is
so much music from the West that, on radio right, that it surprises me that when I
come here I hardly ever hear anything from Africa, except for, you know
Andy Kershaw? Yah, he's really done a lot for music from Africa in particular....
in Zimbabwe though they're busy playing America, America and the West,
America and the West...

How about opportunities to travel and perform in other African countries…
is that happening for you?

I have, yah, I do that a lot… we've done Mocambique, South Africa, Botswana…
we want to expand though but  I haven't gone up north, east, west, but in southern
Africa it's been okay.

So what next for Albert Nyathi and Imbongi?

Well, the next CD is simply called "Joshua Nkomo", that's how I'll name it.
I think that that man was great and I'm making research right now. We have a
few songs that I've worked on with the group, and we are going to dedicate a
whole CD to his works. And some of my poetry will really be based on his life.
There'll be a bit of a cappella in there, but it will be mainly trumpets, keyboards,
vocals, poetry, guitar, as you know it… The Joshua Nkomo dedication.
You see I didn't want to do it soon after his death because I think people would
have said, "Ah Nyathi", "Albert is trying to take advantage of the death of the
old man", and people are going to buy blindly because of those emotions. But
I wanted people to settle down first in their heart. And by the way, I'm the one
who was chosen to lead the funeral procession of Joshua Nkomo, and so
I didn't want it to be too soon. Now I think two years is enough.