The best economic policy for the country.

What economic policy do you think will pull the country out of this man-made crisis?
What is the best system to follow?
Should we follow the free market economy?
Should we follow socialism?
Should we follow a mixed economy (both free market and socialism)
What about communism does it have a chance to rescue the country?

Gents, once this issue is debated thoroughly, we will kindly request uMhlonitshwa (the honourable) Sibalukhulu to co-ordinate a project where we can request the best economic experts in the world to write a chapter on what they think the country should do to pull itself out of this Mugabe induced mess. Such work could be compiled into an economic book which can be used to give policy direction in terms of economic recovery. We will need the contribution of economic experts from the World Bank, IMF, Bank for International Settlements, Federal Reserve Bank , Cambridge University, Oxford, MIT, Harvard , Tsholotsho, you name it, excluding Zwakapressa because these are the people who have collapsed the country.

Nanso ke indaba bafowethu yasuka yahlala!!!!!

In response to your post Lobengula, we should choose an economic policy that rewards society' members for achievement. Such a policy should be home - grown without involvement of World Bank, Cambridge or Oxford as you say. The only Cambridge or Oxford element we should allow is if the "expert in question" is an Mthwakazi.

An economic policy should offer safety nets for the poor and it should offer the poor and uneducated opportunities to supply their labour and be well - remunerated. An economic policy of Matland should be crafted so as to take advantage of what Matlanders like doing and resource endowments of Matland in order to turn these into competetive advantages.

Maybe we should be talking about an economic system and if we agree on that, I could suggest that the economic system should offer everyone opportunities. Such a system could range from the simple units to complex ones that match sophisticated research or production systems in "developed" societies.

I suppose that in choosing such a system, we would be guided by what we want to achieve. Firstly we could be interested in equity. Our second priority could be resource utilisation - and pricing policies would dictate where resources are mostly used. We could be interested in growth, full employment, less or no inflation, innovativeness - but also in environmental protection.

Socialism, Capitalism, mixed systems etc, all are confronted by such problems as pollution, unemployment etc. Our system should show that we have seen the pros and cons of this of that policy. If we choose a system that attracts foreign investment, we should be mindful of the long - term effects on innovativeness and the resulting crowding - out effect on locals. This is why I will advocate for a policy that is initially inward looking and seeks to stabilise income differentials.

Sorry I have to dash elsewhere - i will get back on this one.

Australia will reap US$450m during the 3-4 week rugby world cup.
Whatever economic system you design, it must be able to attract such revunue/investment. Can you do it??

Lobhengula,
l would like to congratulate you on introducing a new topic. While l understand yo wish for Zimbo to succeed, l feel starting from choosing a new economic system is going the wrong way. The problem in Zimbo is political not economic. l don't mean to pre-empt your topic but l don't it will help in anyway. Adopting a new economic system would not guarantee success in Zimbo as long as the Shonas are in power. There are many countries that have adopted the free market system, mixed economic system that are worse than Zimbo.
l also have a question for you King, what economic system is Zimbo currently using ?

Zimbabwe is using the system of destroying. The economic policy being advocated is known as plunder, it is unsustainable. Shona's are still in the 15th century.

mahlabezulu angazilutho ngeze-economics and zimbo economy so to speak. but to ask KING[Lobengula], lapha sidinga an economic strategy to resasitate/resurrect the Zim economy in general or to initiate a system for Matabeleland? coz in case of Mthwakazi all we need is water and we are done with amashona. look we have managed to till our dry region and work as semi-slaves both in Zim & SA hence if we harness a reliable water system for our rural folks then we can now talk another language with amashona. agrarian industry might work for us. in Lupane for example the naturalgas reserves can be utilised by us if we have secured our food supply. if we call an outsider to tap it forus claming we don't have enough capital to start we'll be turned to splendid slaves coz the outsider will know we are working for food and starve us to continue working subserviently. well this might seem a long and winding way to start an economy but thus where the superpowers came from. well according to my view point economic development cannot be prescribed to us coz of spatial variations from one region to the other, yes we need guidlines from those ahead of us. the MZWT was thwarted by shonas coz they forsaw a liberated Matland. when elections come bakhampena ngomumbu what an insult! try to think ukuthi kungelandlala angithi ngabe bakhampena ngokwakha izibhedlela lezikolo hatshi amabhawa lemimumbu yabo. coz hope to a hungry man is bread. if we want an indeginous economy i think we need to secure a good and dependable food supply then we can start industrialising our region at our own pace determining market values not starvation propelled ideas. angazi engxenxe ngiyibambele emuva ngihlomuleleni bafowethu.

I think Dose is right to ask which economy do we hope to resurrect. Is it the Zimbabwean economy or the economy of our region?

The fundamental question is this: Do we envisage a prosperous future in a system where the Shonas are at the helm of everything, where they decide everything for us?

If indeed we are talking about the economy of our region, then we have to prioritise our needs as a people.

We believe political independence of our region is a priority and a major key factor in whatever aspirations we have.

We cannot achieve anything without that independence.

The people from the North have shown that they are not prepared to live with us as equals but as their subordinates who are to be exploited and treated as second-class citizens. That to us as a people is not acceptable and more so an insult to us.

We made a huge sacrifice to this country. We made a huge contribution to this country. We sweated for this country. We lost father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, daughters and sons, aunties and uncles for this country.

We were at the forefront of the battle to uproot the settler regime of Ian Smith. The Shonas try to belittle our contributions but they will fail. We the survivors are here to pass the torch of our rich history to our future generations. In that we will not fail.

We were the first to internationalise the Zimbabwean problem, through the hard works of uMdala. No one can deny that.

We fought battles with the enemy. We won battles.

It is therefore not acceptable to us to be treated as second-class citizens.

Malibuye elikaMthwakazi.

Dose - let me remind you that you are an economist as well. When you go shopping, you most probably select this good instead of that one because of the enjoyment or satisfaction - called UTILITY in economics - you derive in using it. Probably you choose that good due to your income called - budget constraint. Sometimes you could spend more than you earn - by borrowing from friends or you may not like borrowing from other people, but buy "an affordable market basket of goods" - ie not running the risk of a "deficit budget". Countries also borrow money internally or externally just like individuals.

By logging into Inkundla - you forego doing other activities - those actities you forego are sacrificed in preference of Inkundla and this is called the Opportunity cost. Economists should not scare anyone away since all people are economists in their own right. Everyone should be comfortable to tackle this topic without feeling inadeqaute.

Nyasombi - I differ with you that politics and economics are separate - they are not. consider for instance the politics of colonialism. Its purpose was also to open new sources of supply for raw materials and markets. In the later part, the colonies were used as dumping grounds for goods produced by infant industries from "mother countries" and as world wars indicate, colonies provided soldiers to "mother countries". Even today, "colonies" vote at international fora for their "mother countries political agendas". In Zim we have both the political and economic problem because the policies of the earlier affect the later.

Consider again the politics of the current administartion in the USA in as far as the middle east is concerned. The USA industry needs oil. US cars have some of the biggest engines in the world. OIL is needed for heating homes, driving industry and the USA had to kick Saddam out on a pretext that he had WMD. BUt what has happened in Iraq to date? American firms have been allocated huge contracts to rebuild Iraq. The guy running the oil commission in Iraq is an Iraq who has trained, lived and worked in the USA - he was appointed by Americans. Why? The truth is that they need someone who will guarantee them some oil. Still in Iraq, American firms like McDonalds have set up shop. I hope that you can now appreciate the link between economics and politics.

Mr Chairman I think we are all aware that the Northerners are not prepared to live with us - except under their terms. Just an illustration that will shock some of you. Last week Sazini Ndlovu a former Zipra supremo died in Byo. People expected him to be declared a national hero - but no declaration was made until his relatives decided to burry him. This happened when the likes of Nkomo, Dabengwa, Skhanyiso - who sit in the Politburo seemed helpless in informing the grieving relatives on what gvt was going to do. Only when Ndlovu had been laid to rest did John Nkomo apologise on TV on behalf of his masters that the delay had not been deliberate. They can not exhume him but are going to "honour his grave and give his relatives support gvt normally accords fallen heroes". Do you believe this? This has never happened to anyone before but this time it did. I agree with you Chairman that these guys just dont care about us.

We should not forget that political policies in use affect the performance of the economy at large. Similarly laws or institutions affect economic performance.

You are most likely wearing American or European or Asian clothes, driving a car made by either of these, using a computer made by either of these, eating a dish from either of these, sitting on a chair made by either of these, using dishes, stoves, TVs, DVDs, sportwear, machines, books, pens, buildings, etc - all made by either of these societies. What is our role on earth? Are we sure that we are not creative? Why do we have expensive tastes when we can not force ourselves to create economic systems that are enviable?


The challenge is for us all to think deeply and creatively. This is a great opportunity Lobengula has given us. In our attempts at conquering this evil in Zim, we should win first the economic warfare and lastly the political. How do we do it? I do not have the answers but I will suggest some useful approaches.

Mthwakazi:

I think, in focussing on the "economy" (or lack thereof), uMnumzane u-Lobengula has effectively reduced the "zimbabwean" problem to an economic one. Someone has gone further to clarify the fact that, in fact, politics and economy are two sides of the same coin. So, I suppose, what we have here is the consensus that the problem with "zimbabwe" has two faces, namely: political and economical. It is important to stress that there is a strong interplay between these two regimes. Sometimes, what appears to be a political problem is, in fact, a disguised economical problem, and vice versa. The interdependence (or is it symbiosis?) is staggering.

In any case, let me quickly get to my point. I must apologise because I think the best way to put my point across is by asking the reader questions. Some are rhetorical in outlook, yet some are questions that baffle me as well. Let us start off by naming our creature of interest the "z-problem". This creature has many levels of complexity, and is, indeed, multi-dimensional. In view of this, I believe any approach aimed at diffusing the problem should try to target the source/epicentre of the problem, so to speak. What is the epicentre of the problem? In other words, what is at the core of the z-problem? In my mind, I know politics is somewhere there, and so is economics. But, is this it? Is there something else that we are missing? I'm not trying to be a drag, all I'm getting at is that before we even begin to tackle whatever problem is at hand, we should very clearly and explicitly define/understand the problem. It might also help to keep in mind that most problems in life don't have a unique solution. The solution we eventually adopt for our particular problem should, clearly, be one that is amenable with our own aspirations as a people. In any case, I digress.

To summarise, here is what I think we should ponder on for a bit.

1. What is the problem?

2. What is the scale/scope of the problem?

3. what is the epicentre of the problem?

4. what are possible solutions?

5. what is the best/optimal solution? Why?

I believe only after seriously reflecting on these questions can we start to map out strategies for the way forward. We don't want a bandage solution
to the problem. Neither do we want a short term solution, I think.

Ngiyema.

In our discussion on coming up with "an ideal economic policy" I want to urge those of us who are fortunate to be residing in industrialised societies to take advantage of technology available in those countries. We should not be intimidated by technology.

For us to be competitive, we may need to adopt technologies in use and refine these to our advantage similar to what the Japanese did. Before we move to technology refinement, we should appreciate technology. Most machinery in use in Zim dates back to 1945 - its obsolete. There are plenty of opportunities in manufacturing, packaging, engineering (civil, mechanical, electrical).

Quite often the equipment in use breaks down easily and productive time is lost. The printing industry is one sector that is lucrative. The haulage and passenger transport sector are equally rewarding. If you stumble on high way tractors equipped with cummins engines, just buy them and start your own haulage business.

Franchising is one sure way of going into business. Most master franchises in southern africa are bought by South Africans who then sell them to anyone. These guys go on to make billions before they themselves put the franchise into operation. Look around yourselves and see whether there are any master franchises for sell. Once you buy that, you can sell the franchise to anyone in your region.

Second hand machinery is available in abundance in those countries - arrange visits and see if you can get started with something. There are people here who can operate most of those machines.

One other sector that should be lucrative is hifi production. Add to that the production of auto amplifier systems. All you need to do is to buy or get circuit diagrams from many producers and then you can produce and export these in many countries in Africa. Car speakers sell for Z$500000 - if they are average. Those in electronics should take up this opportunity. Find out from Taiwan whether you can import parts from there and assemble this thing here.

Do not rush and go back home with a car. Get the production technology first. Soap, Tissue paper,diapers, soft drinks, candles, solar systems - and many more require technology. It is there. Always insist on mini plants. Now I want to encourage all of us to get something rolling in here. Through this approach, I am sure we will knock them out.

Ntombi,
Well Mr/Miss Nombankala l didn't say politics and economics are different. What l said is "...l feel starting from choosing a new economic system is going the wrong way. The problem in Zimbo is political not economic...". The story that you give of Sazini Ndlovu a former Zipra supremo further illustrates my point that the problem in Matabeleland is political not economic. Assuming you are correct that "our challenge...is first to win the economic warfare and lasts political". What should happen to Zanu (PF), Mugabe and all his thugs that are guilty of genocide, tribalism, corruption,...? Should we then solve the economic woes and forget about Mugabe? Once you solve the economic problems how do hope you solve the shona dominance? Personally l feel there is no way you can solve the economic problems without regime change.
Again you seem to suggest that everyone is an economist. l did economics up to form 4 level but l wouldn't call myself an economist. Ntombi you have to give respect to those who spend years in universities and colleges specializing in economics. Those are the people who are economists. Your suggestion that an ordinary CONSUMER is an economist is off the mark. Please don't try to be-little the real economists. There is more to economics than just day to day consumer activities.
You also seem to articulate very well the current events on the Iraq war and you forget that America was justified to remove Saddam Hussein a dictactor responsible for genocide, torture, intimidation, corruption, etc. just like Mugabe. Rather than talk of domination by America, Europe and Asia l feel we better concentrate our efforts on the shona political and economic domination. For example l would like to ask how many Ndebeles were allocated farm land? Note this is first a political decision and then economic.
REGIME CHANGE FIRST THEN ECONOMICS LATER.

Ntombankala

Just a few points which might interest you in as far as your assertion (relating to a home grown economic policy) that:
"Such a policy should be home - grown without involvement of World Bank, Cambridge or Oxford"

It might be of interest to you to note that a one Mwalimu Julius Nyerere of Tanzania brought his country to abject poverty through his "home grown Ujamaa brand of economic policy" which failed miserably reducing Tanzanians to dismal levels.
One Robert Mugabe did exactly that through his anarchic and hapless "land is the economy, the economy is land" and the results are a spectacular case of the biggest economic implosion in morden societies which has been described in economic literature as Mugabenomics
characterised by hyperinflation, stagflation, mamparadom and value degradation as well as brain drain.He specifically alienated himself to these world bodies and institutions and the result has been mass starvation.
This is just a view Ntombi which I wanted to bring to your attention.

Ndukuzibomvu
I have a problem with the concept of " politics now, economics later". In South Africa where I did most of my tertiary education, we had youth who had a very popular slogan which said "liberation first, education later". Needless to say when liberation was attained , these youth became the most marginalised and the most vulnerable members of society, their counter parties who embraced both education and liberation are today the captains of industry most of them I qualified as a chartered accountant alongside them in the late 1990s.
Believe it or not they are playing critical levels in shaping the economic future of their country which is slowly becoming the envy of Africa with world class economic policies, a strong currency (1Rand= US$6.80),a world class democratic constitution etc etc .

Ngiyabonga bafowethu qhubekani lixhonxana layo ingxubakaxaka yendaba le liyihluze.

Bakwethu, like Donse, I will have to make a quick declaration that I am not well equipped with weapons of mass economic studies. I am an ordinary man with ordinary ideas on economic issues. Therefore my opinions are those of a lay man in economic issues. Ngimfisthane lapha but all the same I have some ordinary opinions

However, umfowethu uNtomba has said it well that we are all economists, we practice economics on a daily basis, we think economically on a daily basis when we venture into our activities of daily living. Indeed we can not run away from that simple fact as espoused and well explained by Ntomba. That is true indeed.

My other fellow tribesmen have also explained well the fact that politics and economics are inseparable. Therefore it is safe to assert that politics is economics in as much as economics is politics. They are inseparable indeed. One can not talk about bread and butter issues without talking about politics and vice versa.

This then zeros us to the 'epicenter' of our problems. They are political as well as economical. Therefore our needs assessment agenda should be a twin track approach to these problems.

We should focus on solving the political problem while at the same time fighting for economic independence through changing our people's attitudes to wealth creation.

I would then dwell on the economic front for today. Our attitude towards wealth creation is rather found wanting. The get a job philosophy as a way of wealth creation is rather a misguided philosophy that will not lead us anywhere. It will never liberate us. We can talk of political liberation but it will never signify anything without the creation of wealth or a mentality of creating wealth.

I would like to argue that economic liberation is the bedrock to all forms of liberation. Political liberation on its own is meaningless and will always be the bedrock of the meaninglessness of political independence. Liberated nations the world over who have not produced a formula for economic independence through encouraging wealth creation have found themselves enmeshed in the meaninglessness of the political independence. Africa is one such a continent and Zimbabwe is an example.

I therefore believe that the get a job philosophy should only be a passport to a wealth creation philosophy. Wealth creation philosophy in a very pragmatic way should be a passport to all freedoms and aspirations that we hold dear to our lives as Mthwakazians. Kumele singene kumabhizimusi and create wealth for our region.

We should change the culture yokucanga ukuthi ukuthola umsebenzi is the be all and end all of everything.

We should start cultivating a business culture in ourselves.

Therefore at a micro regional level, the only economic plan we can embark on, as Mthwakazians is wealth creation through venturing into busineses. This will make it easy for us to harden our political resolve and help us sort out our problems.

When I say : HLASELA, people always think of war, but to me it is more than that. Hlasela is used in a multi-dimensional way here. It fits well in all our aspects of life be it educational, political, economiclal and cultural.

Kumele si: Hlasele

Mnumzane Lobengula:

I absolutely agree with you that there's something wrong with the logic "politics now, economics later". Clearly,this"logic" assumes that the two are mutually exclusive regimes, which we know (I think) is a fallacy. As you point out, this logic was successfully implemented during the South Afrikan conflict. The results are there for all to see. One of the things one notices about South Afrika is that the level of illiteracy of the majority is pretty high, despite the existence of numerous universities/technikons. There are many reasons for this state of affairs. Of course, it is well-known that the old SA had a state-sanctioned two-tier "education" system. As a result, a lot of abantu abansundu felt highly skeptical and suspicious (and rightly so) of the whole idea of "education". Indeed, even political organisations such as the ANC took advantage of this mindset, and actively campaigned using the "logic" you alluded to above. A lot of young people growing up in the old SA saw the institution of school/university as an extension of the state machinery (and, indeed, this was the case in many instances). I think it will take generations to change this mindset. Sadly, even the incoming ANC-led gvt never put education revitalisation as a top priority. With respect to the latter, it might be enlightening to read the original RDP (Reconstruction and Development Programme) white paper. In SA, there's what is generally termed the "lost generation", i.e. the youth who got thoroughly indocrinated with the ideology of political struggle, as distinguished (falsely) from from the general struggle for existence (which includes economics, education, ubuntu, etc).

So, yes, Mnumzane Lobengula, I agree with you in many ways. A visit to Khayelitsha, Zola, Mdansane, Dube, Madadeni, Moroka, Katlehong, Hillbrow, etc will instantly illustrate why I agree with you. My feeling, at this point, is that we should never make the mistake that South Afrikan organisations made. I also believe that one can not build a sustainable and robust economy based on an illiterate labour force. I feel we should prioritise education right from the onset. I am of the view that proper and thorough education (not mere schooling) is (or should be) the bedrock (to borrow someone's terminology) of any robust, dynamic, and solid economy. I believe this is one of the places where we should commence our journey towards the eventual upliftment and liberation of our people, our nation, and indeed, our region. What are we, individually and collectively as a society, doing to make sure that our youth (who are the future) are equipped with education? Should we be sending our youths to factories and sweatshops, or should we be sending them to universities and technical schools? What is our vision of the future? Remember, sweatshops and factories can provide you a job and quick cash, but not a future, I think. We, as a nation, should set our priorities straight.


Ngiyabonga.

Nyasombi apologies if I misunderstood you on the fact that economics and politics are inseparable. You are quite right that "there is more involved in economics than just consumer economics". That is true but do not forget that our role as scholars is to simplify the complex. We should discuss economics and any subject labogogo labo khulu. I have been primarily doing that to the best of my abilities at university.

I still maintain that all normal human beings are economists and this has nothing to do with belittling university life. yes the scope of economics will go beyond that of an ordinary consumer for instance if we are interested in international trade, econometrics, policy analysis and so on. I suppose that I emphasised on the fact the "we are all economists" simply because someone had prefixed their contribution by saying, "I am not an economist". This has an attendant effect of making "non - economists" feel inadequate and we do not want that - do we. Having said that, we should be mindful of psuedo - economists as well. Taking a degree is not sufficient unless someone demonstrates the knowledge gained - this way one is either respected or not.

Something that you may find interesting Nyasombi too is that Adam Smith who is revered as having produced "the bible of economics" was indeed a philosopher. In those days, people studied history and philosophy. Jurisprudence was studied in philosophy and that naturally led to studies in a number of legal systems. Such systems incorporated governmental studies and led directly to studies in Political Economy. Adam Smith wrote economics by "accident". What does this imply? This shows in a way that great economists need not have studied economics after all. Historians, geographers, psychologists, engineers, mathematicians, accountants - the list is endless are formidable contributors - and "economists" do not have a monopoly of ideas on how society's problems of SUPPLY AND DEMAND should be solved.

On what should happen to Mugabe and ZANUPF if we solve the economic problem first - well I think that if you check the archives on my previous contributions you may get the answers. We have cautioned before and I have been cautioned as well from "setting the trap while they observe" - literally translated. My position in as far as those guys are concerned is clear - they are criminals. My position as far as the so - called Zimbabwe is concerned is clear too. I still insist that we should not desire to rule the shona or call ourselves Zimbos. Once we agree on that, I do not see why we should have a problem of empowering ourselves economically. Remember, you don't need to set up shop here - in Zimbo - if the environment is hostile. Set up one elsewhere and empower your people from there.

To say "Regime change first and ..." is some kind of dogma that is in vogue. But I want to urge you to put action into words. It is more practical and quicker to do it the other way round. This is STRATEGY and quite a lot on strategy has been written about. If you spotted a rat in your house, would you chase it around or set a trap? We need to strategies. What we have in Zim is deeper than a political problem. The case of Sazini Ndlovu shows an ethnic problem that is far deeper than politics.

Lobengula - as king you should not have difficulties understanding what I am saying by "home - grown". Look back at "our economic system" that was in place before the colapse of our kingdom. Would you not say that it was "home - grown? The case of Nyerere is documented in texts but Nyerere was a socialist and his approach was based on trying to bridge the distance between villagers by bringing them closser to "service centres" - a good idea but it was bound to fail if people are forced. I suppose that the sparsely distributed populations even in Matland make planning difficult in infrastructure provision. The question is, do you force people who live 20 kms from a school to a nearer position when they are comfortable there?

Nyerere's failures were compounded by a lack of wide consultation and the "cold - war" between the Warsaw pact and NATO. That said, a home - grown solution should disown the view that the World BANK knows it all. I have met morons who work for that institution. remember that there is even a quota system for countries in all UN - related organisations. The national governments recommend individuals for appointment and as you know, the World Bank will always work with the local Central Bank of the host country to implement its policies. What does this mean. it means that "politically connected individuals" lend those jobs and their contribution to their own economy is often negative.

The failure of Structural Adjustment programmes in Africa, Asia and latin America lends credence to the dead wood in those institutions. Infact the whole UN - systems is full of crap. If you doubt, where were they when Mugabe massacred thousands of my people? Where were they when life was lost in Rwanda, Burundi, Angola, South Africa, where are they when AIDS is killing people at will etc?

If you recall king Lobengula, - I am sure you are one - one of the recommendations under ESAP for Zim was "reduce the civil service". My goodness, how can that policy guarantee a furniture maker, car maker, etc with income if gvt retrenches workers? Who would buy from them? What would happen to the children of retrenched workers - where will they find support? By retrenching workers, their disposable income is terminated, meaning reduced consumption, reduced savings, reduced investment and the multiplier effect of that is devastating. If savings are reduced, the money creation process of banks is curtailed, hence banks can not lend at lower rates, industry expansion is reduced, unemployment rises, gvt will be unable to offer services as revenues will diminish, gvt will hike taxes for the few formally employed - what you have is a spiral of turbulent interrelated events casued by a poor analysis.

The World Bank's policies of retrenchment were based on the wrong assumption that "too many people were employed in the civil service". They believed that reducing this number "will free idle resources to other sectors in the long - run" that would have been created due to liberalisation. A failure to notice that this labour force is not easily transferable between sectors without major costs was startling. for instance assume gvt had retrenched customs officers and at the sane time someone invested in a jewellery plant - would the jobless customs officers be useful in this plant? They can only be useful if they are willing to be trained, are clever to adjust and there is money to train them and most importantly, the investor would have to be willing to "wait for these trainees" and forego earnings. Now there you have it from the World Bank.

It is clear that the World Bank policies are crafted to give advantage to economies of the Northern hemisphere. Their desire to see a reduction of "gvt debt" was primarily targeted at ensuring that borrowers from the North get their money back. I can go on and on. Japan needed no World Bank, Germany did not - forget the Marshall plans since Germany was already industrialised.

What we need is a home - grown solution and that policy should not belittle technology. ngiyabonga.

Ntomankala
I do not want to participate in this debate at this stage,I will do so later, but very briefly let me point out a few issues raised in your contribution: Let me quote your exact words

"The World Bank's policies of retrenchment were based on the wrong assumption that too many people were employed in the civil service". They believed that reducing this number "will free idle resources to other sectors in the long - run
My goodness, how can that policy guarantee a furniture maker....."

Look, Ntomba, Zimbabwe has got two ministers of education. Britain has got one (I speak under correction). The USA has got one. South Africa with over 60 universities and technikons has got one.The president's office has got more than 4 ministers.Do you need all this garbbage.
Recently i wanted to open a small business for my mother in Bulawayo, firstly i had to que in 8 different ques (wasting about 5 hours) before I could go through. A computer can easily do the jobs done by these people and save valuable time and resources. When i got to Byo iwas told to go and register the business in Harare where I had to consult 6 officers(bureauctrats) before i colud see the right gentleman, only to be told to go back to Byo and collect more forms and see other officers in Byo before coming back to Harare to see more officials before approval could be done.Needless to say i had brought 3 prospective investors who wanted to look for business opportunites in the IT sector, they all went back disgusted. Let me point out to you that my own business plan has since been shelved as well by the sheer magnitude of beaucracy. Ntomba does it not occur to you, purely from an economic view point that two people could have done the job with the help of a computer faster at the border? Does it not make sense to locate the office for business approvals in Byo with less than a quarter of those people? The resources "freed" could then fund the Matland water project and feed our starving children in the rural areas. So you must have arelook at what the World says bra/sister Ntombi.

Lingixolele ngokuthumeza iposi elilezixhenxe.

Chairman - I admire your presentation. Indeed our attitude on wealth creation "of late" has been found wanting. Kasisukumeli phezulu. Notice that I say "of late" since I can not correctly give an account of an economic system used by our forefathers but I know that their economic system was based on a stronger emphasis on the military.

Military might guaranteed control over factors of production - a strategy that was later used against us by colonialists and that strategy is what the USA and western governments are using today. We can not doubt that in our system there were miners, smiths, furnace engineers etc. How this was ordered or remunerated, I can not tell anyone.

Today we are realising the "lost generation of knowledge" - if I may borrow from Nduku. Since our progression in development was "disturbed" by colonialists, we lost knowledge and now we can hardly go back. Probably this is why The Chairman is saying we should "change the culture of thinking and cultivate business culture". This is not easy but this is just the way to go.

Our people are still good at rearing domestic animals. Most beef in Zim is from Mat South followed by North. The quality of forage - grass etc in drought prone Mat South is the best for livestock in the country. The question is, how do we turn this to a system that empowers people in Mat South? What levels of industrialisation could spring out of "what people are doing" and what would be the uniqueness of these forms of industry? I suppose that the "system" would determine levels of sophistication.

As Nduku did indicate, education will play a pivotal role in our quest for defining a new economic order. As to "what type of education" - I may not add - but it should be inclusive in terms of content. Ethics and social responsibility should form the foundation of the compulsory courses in our education system at elementary level and cultural diversity.

I have no right to monopolise this session. I have great respects for all who realise that Matlanders are not supposed to worship the shona at all. I respect all who believe the Matlanders have a right to Matland and that it is indeed theirs and are in no way indebted to the shona for anything.

I am happy that you have relentlessly refused to lie down. You have prodded issues left, right and centre. You have defied odds and shown a fighting spirit by interrogating all forms of wrongs. The determination you continue to display here is indeed reflective of your high breed. It is this spirit that will assure Matland's sovereignity.

As The Chairman says "Hlasela" hlasela. If you do not, you will be a target of "hostile take overs". yes the war is multi - faceted as he says. Right now I need a partner with US$10 000 for a venture that will return Z$330 000 000 by 1 month. Thereafter the cashflows will always be Z$330 000 000. If you are ready talk to me and I will give you all the details. Hlasela!!

Lobengula - I understand the hassles you went through trying to put your documents together. That is typical of Zimbabwe. People spend time and money queueing for birth certificates and have to travel to Harare. Service provision as you indicated is appalling. People working in those offices will be creating conditions conducive to fermenting corruption. It is well - known that people pay far more than they should be doing for registering companies, that the processes are woefully slow - BUT - that does not make a still - born World Bank reform programme justifiable.

The case of computerisation you highlight will make sense if we use "surface scheming". Computerising comes with costs. Firstly, no Zimbabwean company can produce a computer chip, cable or monitor. So who benefits if gvt buys 1000 computers? Is it not computer manufacturers who are foreign? Assume as you say that one computer would do the work of two people or more - well I do not think so. A Computer needs an operator who must be trained - and following on this, it does not mean that a guy obhala izithupha will easily switch over to using a computerised system. The guy may just fail to even operate the keyboard. What would you then do with this individual who has suddenly become redundant but can produce an ID document manually.

A reform programme should take into account realities on the ground. Still on the computer Lobengula, if say the guy who was employed in the ID section took home $100 000/month was replaced with a computer, how much would this cost? In Zim today, a computer selling for Z$2 000 000 is very cheap - this is before you add the printer, tonner, paper, maintenance costs, depreciation etc. If we use $2 000 000 as the cost of a computer, it implies increasing our "salary bill" by $800 000 annully over a situation where we have this guy. So where have we cut the cost?

Before any reform programmes are implemented, the World Bank is mandated to spy on what will be needed, who swill supply it etc. These programmes of economic reform are designed to create markets for firms of "donor" countries. Often we hear that this country and that one have given us aid to construct roads. Sounds good to the ear BUT bulldozers have to be sourced from the country giving "aid" - thus creating jobs at source.

Our major problem is that we are not producing any capital goods often referred to as Ricardo goods after David Ricardo. We tend to focus on Heckscher - Ohlin goods like tomatoes, bananas, oranges, mining - and even on these, we are not highly competitive due to our low levels of investment in science. Our reliance on primary production has seriously handicapped us since we cannot "innovate" a tomato in a similar way as a motor manufacturer does to a car.

Our economic system should enable us to produce capital goods

Bafowethu,

While going through your Debate,I am a bit lost when comparisons of South Africa and Zimbabwe are made.
Gents remember that the population of Soweto on its own is almost equivalent to that of the whole of Zimbabwe,therefore the probability of meeting an illiterate in any of the surburbs is so high,unlike in Zimbabwe where the same number of people are spread out.Note there is more than 55 ooo ooo people in South Africa compared to about 13000 000 in Zimbabwe.The majority of Zimbabweans who attained good quality education did so before 1990,while in South Africa by 1991 most schools were biggining to adopt a morden education system thus computerising every classroom in urban areas of which by now many including rural schools have since adopted the sysytem.I do not remember any educated literate Zimbabwean Minister who ever had a foresight to introduce the sysytem to primary schools,it was only left to Private colleges.Most Zimbabweans are Literate yes,but Bafowethu the majority is computer illiterate.
No wonder my brother Lobengula had such a struggle failing to register his mother's company,the government will not buy computers ,simple because the majority of Zimbabwean civil servants have no clue at all what a computer is,not to mention how to switch it on.Imagine how much it will cost the government introducing the scheme'computers don't bite'in Zimbabwe.
Maybe this is the reason why the economy is not recovering,cause too much time is wasted on doing nothing in Zimbabwe.Look at Banking ques,if people had computers tele-banking will be in use everyday thus reducing wasted time.
Let us not be sunk in the assumption that Zimbabweans are the majority literate in Southern Africa,they were years back! but now others are calling the shots.

[ 21.10.2003, 18:05: Message edited by: thrower ]

Thrower

Mathrower, I fully agree with you brother-man. You could not have put it better my brother. The mentality that you get in Zm is "This is Zimbabwe my friend" (say that with the relevant person's accent and you will see what I am talking about).
We need earth moving equipment to drill sense to these people.

hello...i'm new to this but..
the guy who couldn't get ahead becos of bureaucracy...yes, zim does have that problem.but...other people have done it, all you need is sheer perseverance, not to mention a thick skin to tolerate appearing a bit dull for not knowing that you have to join 6 queues to get one thing done. i know its annoying but think of it this way: iswwina will not hesitate to do something okuzaletha imali.to be on the same level with them we have to play by their rules.they are tenacious...so we should be too.maybe all this is a bit simplistic...judging by all your postings...the king, ntomabankala and the rest i cant help feeling a bit...out of place among such great minds.

its just that we've always heard that amashona athanda imali.they work and they do whatever it takes to make a buck.thina we are so soft i think and we give up easily.we dont want to fight.

if we joined forces we'd get matland to be the powerhouse that it should be.there are plenty of big dara's in the capital who are children of mthwakazi yet they do not support matland...why?people like mthuli ncube, nhlanhla masuku, and the execs of first bank are actually sons of matland.yet akukhanyi.why?

the governor of mat north comes from nkayi yet the road going there is so bad.why?
amashona awalanhloni zokuthuthukisa abakibo.why thina sisesaba?
odabengwa...he is running the MZWT but what is being said about it? nothing. yet we all know that the biggest problem matland has is the water shortage.what happened to our people that we have become so soft and quiet and willing to accept the crumbs thrown by those in power? are we not the one who fought and one the war?manje sokwathini?did all the brave ones die???
umsebenzi yikukhuluma yet nobody ever does anything worthwhile.why?
yes i know kunzima, but we have people in high places too...bona benzani????uncedo labo ngolwani?

before any talk about how disadvantaged we are we need to realise our weaknesses, the inherent ones, such as ukungafuni ukuncedana.
ishona lingaphumelela, the whole family has made it.but indebele...ufuna ukube ecelwa kuphela.why?
that is what is killing our nation(mthwakazi-land).those who have made it...help others make it too, and then we will all have made it.the smallest part of the nation is the individual, help the one, aand you help them all.

the quality of discussion in this forum is impressive. how about coming together and actually writing something for publication?or if not that, at least something that will be seen by those who can effect change?those in power and who have the interests of matland at heart? i know that you think it will not help...but this is our problem...ukwesabela khatshana.
it might not help...but could it possibly do any harm?

yes, i'm young and maybe i sound stupid.but this is what i see...we are in a tight place and if we dont help each other we will never get anywhere as a nation.

masibambaneni, sithuthuke.

Thrower
I'm surprised at the way you display your ignorance. I don't mean to be rude but you obviously don't understand how a survey on literacy is conducted - it has nothing to do with size of population. If l may follow your limited analysis l would interpret your analysis the oppositely that is to say since South Africa has a larger population than Zimbabwe then it should have a higher number of educated people. How about that? Surveys or Statistics are conducted by sampling a particular group(age group, certain level of education, etc). The particular age group is then tested say on the ability to read, write, understand, mathematics, etc.It absolutely has nothing to do with population. If you want to know the exact statistics on illiteracy in southern africa you can check the UNESCO site. Forget the statistics there is no doubt that Zimbabweans are among the best in Africa in terms of education.
You also state that, " ...while in South Africa by 1991 most schools were beginning to adopt a modern education system thus computerising every classroom in urban areas of which by now many including rural schools have since adopted the system..."
What do you mean by computerizing classroom? Do you mean automation in every classroom? If so, what is there to computerize in a classroom? From this statement l can deduce that you went school after 1990 and you didn't take any lessons in a computer lab.
You also say that civil servants in Zimbabwe are computer illiterate. That's not true. Go to passport office you will find civil servants using computers. l don't know who does switching-on for them. As a matter of fact the Zimbabwean civil servants are among the highly educated and for you to say they don't know how to boot-up PCs is an insult. The Zimbabwean banks are perhaps the most up date as far as computerisation is concerned but one has to know that are costs related to technology. Behind any useful computer technology e.g. internet banking, Point of Sale, ATM, etc there is a highly paid computer specialists. As a matter of fact internet banking is offered by most Zim banks.
Finally l just wanna say to you despite the political problems we are facing Zimbabwe is still calling the shots in Africa. Open your eyes
Mr Thrower!!

well this site never fails to attract me to some real gud stuff , about the economic policy to be followed , i belive zim can do with mixed economy possible first 10-15 years then possible with monitoring and review then go for free market system.
I would like to highlight a few issues that i believe are important to the country ,

Zimbabwes bigest mistakes if analysed will enlighten and lead us on a carefull journey to the future.The policy on subsidy
Zimbabwe borrowed a lot of money from the BRITON WOODS instituions ,the EUROPEAN community as well as SOUTH AFRIKA and most of this money was used to fund about all parastatalz, starting from Railways ,Airzim just to name a few and this were all inefficient ,these became the best root for ministers ,deputy ministers , the whole Board of directors, senior mgt goin down to the lowest employee in the hierachy to syphon money toeither their pvt account or to foreign accounts .If you anaylise this and look at the number of parastetals which recorded huge losses every year, imagine at some time ZUPCO was the major player in the industry but failed to register profits in those years, this will not make sense even to an economic laymen selling vegetables at the makokoba market.We are talking about close to 3/4 of our foreign debt .and people say that zimbabwean problems started in 1999, well my friends which ever way with or without the war vets , land reform, we were heading for the wall, the land issue only hestened the speed.
we were simply living beyond our means and thats it , how can a country sell steel, and not manufacture final commodities .
there fore we have to start industrialising the country, well you might say its difficultand will hurt the odinary people , my question is was south afrika born industralised ,a big NO it was a preplanned project with a huge multiplier effect.
Well just to cut the long story short, whatever policy we take we have to be disciplined to stick to economic policies not change them willy nilly.

we have to live within our means , i mean do not rely on BRITON WOODS , A good exaple is SOUTH AFRIKA they budget is about 97% funded by taxes( VAT ,paye, coporate tax ,different duties, just to name a few)thus a very efficient tax system, might think about VAT instead of sales tax.about 1% domestic borrowing, and about 2%foreign debt which is done not because they need it but just to keep the accouts goin and the goowill .

An essential tool that has to be built along the lines of INDIPENDENCE is the AUDITOR GENERAL OFFICE, this office is to the whole population what KPMG ,DELOTTE N TOUCH ,is to the shareholders of a company. if the office is 98% independent it means it will make sure that all government departments are efficient,that is use their budgets in a way that benefits the people ,ALL parastetals are as efficient as public company hence reduces our cancerus problem called subsdy.
We need to build a treasury department that is very efficient, so as to make sure that the country lives fromits means .

well fellows i thank you for motivating me to contribute to this site and bear with me for all the mistakes and i look forward to reading your contribution

God bless

NYASOMBI i must say your cntributions are very good , but i get to wonder when you say that the argument raised by lobengula is irelevant, well say the political problem is solved in the next week then were do we go, do we start planning .Well i beg to differ , that is actuly what has led to the downfall of many African nations , we dont plan we want sudden changes, hence i believe that Lobengula topic is very relevant and we should ponder on many issues that led to the fall of zim and Umthwakazi , i believe that they will help us appreciate a lot of issues and possible avoid these in the future .

NYASOMBI , Zimbabwe has never called the economic shots in Africa, that is precisly why you are in Canada not South Africa. Zimbabwe's economy genbrates US$4 billion, South Africa US$130 billion, Botswana US$3 billion. Who are you trying to kid. That US$4 billion is the profit of Royal Bank in Canada. Zimbabwe calls the shots. ZANU pf people lie all day. Fucking ZANU.

Nyasombi,

I see that you are a proud Zimbabwean,but failing to admit that Zimbabwe is a total failure,saddens me much.
Being nyasombi maybe Zimbabwe helped you a lot on your way from Malawi but brother,they say a man who travells discovers.
Next time you are in Southern Africa,feel free and tour the region as a holiday maker then you
will discover who calls the shots there.
Do not live and die in the lies of Zanu PF which they now call Zanu petrol finished,the country and its resources are long finished what is left is people like you to admit and move on otherwise if Zimbabwe was calling the shots you could have been one of them in Harare.
To tell me a country that runs out of table salt is calling the shots makes my stomach turn..... Wake up Nyasombi!

Nyasombi
If you came from Malawi wearing your bell-bottom trousers or your Kaunda-like safari suit and you have the stomach to tell the world that Zimbabwe is calling the shots in Africa, I say to you heavens have mercy on you. You must be day dreaming some where near lake Malawi or hallucinating near mount Mulanje still thinking that Banda is still alive.This is a country (Zim) where inflation(hyperinflation) is staggering at 1000%. This is a country where it takes 6 hours to process papers for a single tourist at the border(remember these are people who bring the much needed forex).The world has gone digital.Investment decisions are now done at the click of a mouse. After delaying an investor at the border for 6 hours , his counter party who has decided to go and invest in Japan would have made over US$1 billion just trading currencies in the money markets.A typical example of a deal which was done in the money markets a few days ago will suffice: Dealer Mncumbatha Bank (names changed purposely) bought US$10 billion for South African Rands equivalent of R69 billion (at US$1 to R6.9). Later on in the day he sold his US$10 billion for R80 billion (when the exchange rate had turned around to US$1 to R8), thereby immediately realising a super profit of R11 billion (R80 billion minus R69 billion =R11 billion). Now go back to Mr Murambadoro who is still delaying investors at the border for 6 hours because he is afraid of introducing computers because they will eliminate all the dead wood and partly limit corruption because from a computer processed transactions one will need the audit trails and all the control measures like your pass-words etc etc. Just to illustrate the vitality of technological advancement recently South Africa's Mark Shuttleworth joined the world of the super-rich by selling his Information Technology business which he developed in his parents garage. He made over R10 Billion. Now go back to your "educated friend" at the border who will want you to fill heaps and heaps of forms before he starts checking them like my old egg-head professor during my Varsity days, guess what he will still give them back to you for further corrections before telling you to write your passport number, notwithistanding the fact that the passport number will be in the passport which he is looking at.
We are currently going through globalisation of the financial markets with decisions made in Japan or New York immeditiately affecting investors in Tsholotsho through real-time on-line scenarios. Recently events in the emerging markets had a disatrous effects on many emerging markets e.g Argentina had to appoint 5 presidents in one week under pressure from angry investors who had lost billions due to economic mismanagement or economic masterbation as is the case in your so-called Zimbabwe which you incidentally say it's calling the "shots in Africa". Unless if by "shots" you are refering to gun shots.

Mthwakazi Omuhle:

Mina ngokwami vele ukukhuluma igama i"zimbabwe" akungiphathi kahle. Njalo angithandi ukudlala ngesikhathi ngixoxa ngendlela abetshabi abatshaphaza ngayo umnotho wezwe. Ngokubona kwami (ningiqondise uma ngilahlekile), labobantu badlala amadlwane ngempilo zabantu, njalo abazi lapho abavela khona kumbe lapho abalubhekise khona. Bayehla bayenyuka, mihla ngemihla. Kambe ungasho ukuthi le indlela yokubusa izwe ephelele? Mina nje ngibona sengathi uma ama-Afrika wonke jikelele engazama ukulandela indlela ephambene yase-zimbabwe, kungangcono nibhidlizwe kanye nje lona izwekazi lase-Afrika. Kambe yintoni enhle equkethwe kundlela abetshabi ababusa ngayo izwe leliyana? Uma nithi i-zimbabwe ikhokhela i-Afrika, kusho nje ukuthi i-Afrika ilubhekise khona le ekushabalaleni. Akukho ntonye nje engaphuma kulobubudlelwano be-Afrika nabetshabi base-zimbabwe. Nabobantu baxhwale abazazi, badlula zisengwa. Mina nje nginesifiso sinye qha: kungakuhle uma singananzelela ukuthi thina singuMthwakazi, okaMzilikazi kaMashobane. Ekwakheni lesisizwe, umfokaMashobane wananzelela njalo wahlonipha isisekelo senkululeko. Ngamanye amazwi, uphawu lobuThwakazi yinkululeko ephelele. Yikho nje wenyuka khona le kwelikamfokaSenzangakhona, eseqa imihosha nemihoshana, ewela imifula nemifudlana, ekhwela izintaba nezintashana, ethungatha indlela yenkululeko. Emandulo, besinguMthwakazi wodumo ngenxa yenkululeko yethu esayishiyelwa iNkosi yoHlanga kanye nabokhokho bethu. Ngiyethemba nizavumelana nami uma ngithi mina namhlanje ubuThwakazi bethu buhlehlile ngenxa yenkatha yoncindezelo esayetheswa abetshabi basezintabeni zempumalanga (bona labo ababevame ukushona ngaphansi kwamadwala uma kuliwa).

Ngizocina ngokugcizelela: bakwethu, masinanzeleleni indlela esisebensisa ngayo igama i"zimbabwe", igama eliphuphuma ingcekeza kanye nemifula yegazi nabaningi abantu. Kwabanye bethu, nelogama inhlamba enkulu okwamagama. Ngiyethemba niyezwa ngisho ntoni. Kusenjalo nje, kuyilungelo lakhe wonke umuntu ukuthi azikhethele napho inhliziyo yakhe ihleli khona. Kodwa, noma kanjani, masingakhohlwa inhloso kanye nobudlova balabobantu. Nabobantu bajonge ntonye nje: ngezifiso zabo, kungakuhle mpela uma uMthwakazi wonke nje engashukana naboshukela khona le emasimini, naphakade.

Ngiyema.

MaJaha AMAHLE
Ngiyajabula kakhulu ngendaba ezinje ezihluzwa ngumphakathi
lokhu kungipha isiqiniselo sokuthi lanxa bengasi ncindezela ,abasoze besivimbele ekuzihleleleni izifiso zethu ngelizwe labokhokho bethu
AYIHLOME IYEPHAMBILI
Lanxa manje singekho ekhaya asihlalanga nje kodwa, si bhizi sithatha ulwazi lwabelungu ukuze mhla sibuyelayo sizalikhuphula ilizwe likaMzilikazi loMthwakazi wakhe
I nkosi Ingasakibelani ijulise lemicabangoyenu lina bako Mzilikazi,ondlela zimhlophe ,amawundlu kamalandela
ENKOSI

Bafowethu,

I remember people used to say when Malawians return back home to Malawi they make sure that they don't wear new clothes,most of them were seen visiting tailors to order izigamba for their clothes prior to their return visits.

With this attitude, they claimed this act prevented them from being bewitched,people like Nyasombi do not surprise me at all if they are comfortable in third world Zimbabwe,cause if they all wear izigamba in Malawi then Zimbabwe is their Heaven.

Gents why do all Zimbabwean Government officials make South Africa their National Heath Service.
If Zimbabwe Ruins was that developed as Nyasombi claims why is such a big country failing to construct just one motor-way"Free-way",so we can beleive that morden engeneers are being groomed.

Why is there no proper telecomunications in townships?even the backdoor Mr Phones,which are mushrooming in South Africa. If ever they opened in Zimbabwe,I think it will be a big occasion that will warrant a Government minister to officiate at the opening of such shops.

How about the computer wizkids at government departments as Mnyasa claims they all are,Why don't they introduce a computerised National Identification and Drivers licence system,the votersrole and etc, the list is endless.

For your own information Mnyasa,Zimbabwe is about 60years behind South Africa,and about 100 years behind Britain and I know this will hurt most about 200 years behind the USA in development and technology.
Next time you have a drink with those Shona friends of yours,know it that they are nothing but underachieving Proud big-headed idiots who live in a dream believing Zimbabwe is a super state, they do not deserve to be in power at all.

[ 28.10.2003, 13:57: Message edited by: thrower ]

To the guys who are referring to me as Malawian, who told you that l'm Malawian? You see mon nom de guerre and you say l'm Malawian. How shallow-minded you are!!! A nom de guerre can be anything. If l decide to use Ndazula would you say l'm South African? If l was Malawian why would l be wasting my time sharing ideas on issues pertaining to Mthwakazi. By the way can any of you tell me if this lovely Inkundla website is South African or Zimbabwean ?

One of you highlights that l'm proud to be Zimbabwean, of cause l am. There is no doubt that Zimbabwe is currently facing political and economic problems but that doesn't warrant one to dislike the country where they come from. Say if your father is abusive and poor would you deny him and say he's not your father? If we were all not proud to be Zimbabweans or Mthwakazians then why are we so engaged in issues that concern the Zimbabwe or Mthwakazi?

Some of you think development are freeways, computerised border, proper telecommunication. Proper telecommunication ? When l left Zimbabwe for Canada the contractors were laying telecom cables in townships. Can anyone out there tell me if the digitalisation project by the PTC was aborted? Mr Thrower you continue stating that, "...Zimbabwe is about 60 years behind South Africa...". Where are you getting those figures? Have you seen im'khukhu in South Africa? Have you realised ukuthi abantu bahlala njani emaflats in Joburg? You find that four people or more share a small room divided by curtains. Zimbo may have problems but l don't think such a thing is widespread, correct me if l'm wrong. Statistics say 22 million South Africans live in abject poverty, 45% of the schools have no electricity, 25% of schools have no clean water supply. Yet Mr Thrower says they "computerised every classroom".

To the gentleman who talks of the investor who waits for 6 hours at the border processing his documents. God forbid!! Which investor are you talking about? Zimbabwe has political and economic problems and as such no investor would want to go there. ln any case such an investor would not drive or go by bus thru the border. Investors FLY. They value their time.The gentleman also raises controvesial "globisation" which has brought nothing but more poverty to Africa.

Nyasombi

Firstly you never cease to amaze me. If you do not know that the biggest investors in the SADCC countries are currently South African companies then you have a lot of catching up to do. In Botswana the biggest investors are the likes of DeBeers, First National Bank, Standard Bank, ABSA, Checkers, Markro, Edgars etc etc all South African companies. In Mozambique it's exactly the same companies that are involved , go to Tanzania ,Uganda etc you will find these giant corporations, the same applies to Zm with the likes of Standard Bank , Commercial Bank of Zim which is owned by ABSA, your Edgars and OK Bazaars which are owned by the South African Breweries, not to huge interests of Anglo American in the mining and farming sectors. Now if ,by Jove, you do not know that if an is going to Bulawayo the main mode of transport they use from South Africa is road then, I have nothing further to say to you. Firstly they are very few flights per week (may be 2 or 3) from Jorburg to Byo. So a hell of a lot of investors use road as a means of transport. For your own information, a businessman(investor)based in Messina (10km from the border) wanting to open a business in Bulawayo
will never in his wildest of dreams drive for 585km to Johannesburg to catch a flight to Bulawayo which is within 300km from Messina. The same businessman (investor) will never drive for 585km to Johannesburg to catch a flight to Harare then drive for close to 600km back to Beitbridge if he wants to set up Steers or Chicken Licken across the border in Beitbrigde. Now here lies the catch, a hell lot of your friends that you find at the border have exactly the same mentality as you. They "think" that "investors" fly into Zim while people who drive and use other means of transport are just small fry. Small wonder then that Botswana is receiving the bulk of investment destined for the SADCC region because of its investor sensitive approach. Lastly may you ponder on this, because of these border delays in Zim, tour operators in Cape Town are having an open season: they advertise directly overseas for people to visit Victoria Falls, so tourists fly directly to Cape Town from khonangapho eToronto lase Montreal, then the clever Cape Town tour operators fly these people directly to the Vic Falls in the morning and fly them back to their hotels in Cape Town in the evening. Who has lost? It is the Zim hotel industry, job seekers, Zim Tour Operators, the Zim cootage industry which benefits by sitting with their curios on the side of the road all the way from Beit bridge to Vic Falls , it is Jairos Jiri people because their products have traditionally been for tourists. Now you expect all these local investors to set up shop in the skies and sell their products in the air? Work up bra Nyasombi. But I apologise for alluding to the fact that you are Malawian because of your aka, but remember i have also been called names like the Royal ghost because of my adoption of the name of one of our greatest kings as Mthwakazians.

Nyasombi,

While you seem like a man without a reverse gear,let mecongratulate you for your change of attitude regarding the mentality which has demolished your Zimbabwe and your Hopes.

I have never regarded myself Zimbabwean,but Mthwakazian,neither does my Birth certificate indicate anyway that Iwas born in Zimbabwe,though it says ,country of Birth Rhodesia,I still am sure that I am from Bulawayo as that has never changed since King Mzilikazi named it and it is idicated as the city where I was born .Maybe I am a Bulawayan,yes but not a Zimbabwean at all Sir Nyasombi.
Mfowethu,be aware that I have nothing against you as a man,but am pledging my own fight against shonalism which has swept across our culture and way of thinking.I fight against ideologies that resemble that,and will continue to do so until an Indaba brings freedom comes to Bulawayo and Mandebeleland.
On the subject of South Africa being superior to Zimbabwe,that I do not need to lecture you at all.It is clear common sense for you to know that,I think I can not say much now since my brother Lobengula has already said much above.

Otherwise enjoy yourself, I send my apologies for thinking you were Chikwankwara,Do you remember ;Sakhelene Zinini,on Mthwakazi FM,Montrose studios.

-------------------------
Nango....ooo Ke..!
----------------------

Lobhengula/Thrower

l agree with you when you say South African companies are the biggest investors in the SADC region. However, the Edgars, OK bazaars, Datlabs, Dunlop, etc have been there ever since l was a little boy. If these investors were spending that much of time at the border they would be long gone by now. While I don't dispute the fact that cross-border mobility is important for economic development, l want to repeat again that investors will go to a country that is politically stable and has rule of law. l don't have official statistics for South African companies that have invested in Byo since 1980. Of hand l can only recall the Beitbridge-Bulawayo railway company, Shoprite and the controvesial petrol garage in Renkini (pardon me for forgetting its name). Only 3!!! Perhaps the other investment (in Matebeleland) is the sale of Hwange Thermal Power Station to Malaysian company, YTL, that brings the number to 4 ? Why is it so considering that Bulawayo attracts a large number of investors in Zimbabwe who come to the ZITF. The problem is Zanu-pf. Ask yoself how many ZITFs have held in Byo and what investment did we get? The answer to that question is astonishing!!! Instead Zanu-pf have in actual fact moved ZITF to Harare under the name Harare Agricultural Show? Food for thought.
To Mr Thrower l want to say the only difference between South Africa and Zimbabwe is that Zimbo no longer has a middle class i.e. only the rich and the poor. While l admit that South Africa's infrastructure is the envy of many African countries l should also warn you that South Africa is exactly going on the same track as Zimbabwe. Look at the black affirmative action in RSA (who is benefiting?), corruption by senior govt officials and the general public , land problem, poverty and crime, etc.
To Lobhengula, has Botswana, Zambia, Mozambique computerised their respective borders? If the answer is no, why is it that most of RSA companies are investing there especially Botswana as you say? You also raise a valid problem whereby Cape Town travel companies are benefiting at the expense of Zimbos. Again the problem is Zanu-Pf. For example contrast the number of Tswanas who visit the Vic Falls against the number that cross the border every weekend to buy clothes from Edgars and other shops. ? Why is it that when Zimbo held the 6th All Africa games no game was ever played in the Vic Falls area? If Cape Town travel companies are marketing Vic Falls to their benefit we must not complain coz it is clear that we cannot ourselves do the marketing.
Finally to Lobhengula and Thrower majida l accept your apologies. Let's continue exchanging ideas and views until we realise the MaNdebele dream!!

First and fore most we must defer the odds and get water running from the great Zambezi Then see the industrial capital flowing with riches. How do we get the taps from zambezi flowing with the precios liquid? Wail and wait for Mugabe to die first?

LOBENGULA,THROWER,NYASOMBI et al,i respect your noble &experience ladden views on this particular issue[zim dvt]. as i see it the zim situation is now very complex and delicate. to address this issue one has to consider quite a range of factors. the fastest solution is a federal gvt and address Mat'land's issues in particular, coz zim as a whole is a rotten mess. i don't know may be some economic think tanks may come out with suggestions. in the same predicament caracus recieved some aid from britain. britain gave venezuela 100M POUNDS in investment coz their land bears liquid diamond. IN THE CASE OF zim I DON'T KNOW. may be my view is not welcome federalism may call for more bloodshed and it's worthit. NGITHI MALIDATSHULWE KUTSHANGANE NXA KUFIWA KUFIWE.this may sound very premature for a conclusion but rough estimate how much does mgodoyi needs for a voluptious economic recovery?

i would like to commend the maturity that you are showing some appreciable level of reasoning and please i appeal to all those who have the information to share it with the rest and those in influencial position to take up all that we think can be used to develop our society.....

Masakhane...

Bafowethu

Now that a lot of opinions have been expressed regarding "the best economic policy for the country", I now join the rest of the team in expressing my opinion.
I believe that the best economic policy is the "free market economy". Being a shameless advocate of the free market economy, i fully embrace the "Washington Consensus" which was adopted successifully by South Africa and renamed locally as GEAR (Growth and Redistribution strategy). This strategy has seen falling to 5.4%, GDP averaging 3% growth, value of Rand appreciating to R6.7 to the US$.This has seen further significant and sustainable rate of growth in black economic empowerment. Neighbours have benefitted as well in terms of cross-border investments and tourism.
For a detailed an anlysis of the "Washington Consesus" and how it was adopted by South Africa to revive its economy, kindly refer to the following portion from an Economics Assignment I prepared recently for my MBA at the University of Natal's Graduate School of Business:

1.Washington Consesus
In 1990, John Williamson summed up the policy advice given to Latin America by Washington based institutions into ten propositions and called it the “Washington Consensus” [Melchior, 2002]. These propositions outlined the macroeconomic fundamentals that were necessary to facilitate macroeconomic stability and consequently economic growth, initially, in Latin America. Williamson emphasised that the Washington Consensus was in principle geographically and historically specific but in practice would probably not have much difference if a similar exercise were undertaken in Africa or Asia [The World bank research observer, 2000].
In 1996, South Africa in formulating its Growth and Redistribution strategy (GEAR) wholly embraced these policies, with specific emphasis on two key principles, fiscal discipline and monetary conservatism.

2. Key features of the `Washington Consensus’.
· Fiscal discipline
· A redirection of public expenditure toward fields offering high economic returns and a better income distribution (e.g. basic health, education, infrastructure)
· Tax reform (lower marginal tax, broader tax base)
· Interest rate liberalisation
· A competitive exchange rate
· Trade liberalisation
· Liberalisation of inward Foreign Direct Investment (FDI)
· Privatisation
· Deregulation
· Secure property rights
· The overall policy package involved a number of elements and a continuous discussion on what was the optimum mix.

2.1. Outline of the GEAR: A macroeconomic Strategy

2.1.1 The background history of GEAR

Against the background of a successful democratic transition, the stagnation that characterised the 1980s had come to an end. Considerable progress had since been made in:
· securing a return to a long-term growth trend in excess of population growth;
· reducing the budget deficit, reforming the tax system and reprioritising public expenditure;
· bringing down inflation and easing the balance of payments constraint;
· opening the economy to international competition and securing access to new markets;
· integrating the civil service and transforming public sector institutions; and
· establishing policy frameworks for delivery of social services.
Notwithstanding these achievements, it had become increasingly evident that job creation, which was a primary source of income redistribution, remained inadequate. It was widely recognised that the growth trajectory at the time:
· failed to reverse the unemployment crisis in the labour market;
· provided inadequate resources for the necessary expansion in social service delivery; and
· yielded insufficient progress toward an equitable distribution of income and wealth.

Sustained growth on a higher plane required a transformation towards a competitive outward-oriented economy. It was clear a new plan of action was required. In keeping with the Washington Consensus an integrated strategy was developed to attain a growth rate of 6 percent per annum and job creation of 400 000 per annum by the year 2000. It built a bridge between the then present constrained environment and sustainable expansion within an increasingly international context. The scenario outlined above created a policy mix based on the new global paradigm in the form of the GEAR. The core elements of the GEAR that is the integrated strategy were as follows:
· a renewed focus on budget reform to strengthen the redistributive thrust of expenditure;
· a faster fiscal deficit reduction programme to contain debt service obligations, counter inflation and free resources for investment;
· an exchange rate policy to keep the real effective rate stable at a competitive level;
· consistent monetary policy to prevent a resurgence of inflation;
· a further step in the gradual relaxation of exchange controls;
· a reduction in tariffs to contain input prices and facilitate industrial restructuring, compensating partially for the exchange rate depreciation;
· tax incentives to stimulate new investment in competitive and labour absorbing projects;
· speeding up the restructuring of state assets to optimise investment resources;
· an expansionary infrastructure programme to address service deficiencies and backlogs;
· an appropriately structured flexibility within the collective bargaining system;
· a strengthened levy system to fund training on a scale commensurate with needs;
· an expansion of trade and investment flows in Southern Africa; and a commitment to the implementation of stable and co-ordinated policies

Kindly add "inflation" in the third paragraph so that it reads as follows: "This strategy has seen inflation falling to 5.4%"...

uLobengula wamawaba ngiyamuzwa la evela khona kodwa bekungakuhle uzame to stream line your contribution ukuze ihlale izwakale kuzulu ngoba lokho okwenzakala e Washington siyakuzwa kodwa sikungenise njani kweyethu i economy e in shambles.All these are good points but if they are understandable the better because someone may act from there....

asixoxeni bawethu.....

Kasikopo

This is a very practical strategy as i have shown that it was SUCCESSIFULLY adopted and grafted by South Africa which was in exactly the same scenario like us. They were emerging form a brutal war, township violence, black on black violence, disinvestment, sanctions, apartheid, a ridiculous financial system of two currencies (commercial rand and the financial rand),a severe deficit, a high net open foreign currency position,a return of former exiles(no jobs), a grueling back log on black advancement, a back breaking debt et etc etc. They successifully adopted the ten key points of the "Washington Consensus" and they got it right, painful as it is.

Siyabonga thina oSikopo ngokujulisa lendaba osukwenza ngoba esifuna kube sobala yikuthi okwake kwenzakala kwamanye amazwe kungenzakala yini lakuleli elthu esesifuna ukulahla imbeleko ngalo, uma impendulo kungu yebo lokho sekufuna sonke sazi ukuthi sizoqala kanjani silandele nhlelo bani ukuze ingabi yindaba ephelela emlonyeni kodwa elokwenzakala...

asiqhubeke layo Lobengula.....

yebo bakwethu.
Lobhengula...i am zimbabwean concerned about the fate of our nation and the best way to get our econmy revived.
as much as i would like to participate and contribute meaningfully, i find that my understanding of the economic impacts of the washington consensus is limited. economics is not something i studied,
ngokunjalo nje, do you think you could post a simpler version of that post???something that the layman can understand??also, how about telling us what adoption of that strategy would mean in real terms...would people be retrenched? would it create employment and so on?
all i'm asking is that you simplify the washington consensus to something that those of us who are not economists can comment on.
i believe that we all have a contibution to make but to do that we all have to be on the same page...know what i mean?
i hope this is not too much of an inconvenience, njalo ngizakubonga in advance...thank you.lakusasa ungadinwa ngokusichasisela.yikho ukuthuthuka kwethu.

Noe,

Without in any way trying to sound like a know-it-all maverick, let me further try and simplify the so-called “Washington Consensus” key points as detailed in my earlier post. I have pointed out that:

“This is a very practical strategy as i have shown that it was SUCCESSIFULLY adopted and grafted by South Africa which was in exactly the same scenario like us. They were emerging from a brutal war, township violence, black on black violence, disinvestment, sanctions, apartheid, isolation, a ridiculous financial system of two currencies (commercial rand and the financial rand),a severe budget deficit, a high net open foreign currency position, a return of former exiles(no jobs), a gruelling back log on black advancement, a back breaking debt, bantustans, Bantu education, political prisoners, etc etc. They successifully adopted the ten key points of the "Washington Consensus" and they got it right, painful as it is”.

Noe, you kindly requested me to try and simplify those points and I hereby present further explanations per your request which I hope will shed better light to you.

1. Fiscal discipline
· Live within your means
· Very low budget deficit (eg 100 basis points or 1%)
· No overspending
· Spend what has been allocated to you (ministries in particular)
· Do not borrow thereby creating DEBT

2. A redirection of expenditure towards fields offering high returns
· Reduce budget allocations to the military
· Increase budget vote for education and health
· In particular primary health care
· Infrastructure (roads, amenities , bridges damns, railway systems)

3. Tax Reform
· Increase tax base (introduce VAT- ie, value added tax)
· Lower taxation for companies to encourage investment and attract more companies.
· Lower taxes for individuals (to attract skilled labour)
· Efficient tax revenue collections
· Computerise tax administration (efficiency)

4. Interest rate liberalisation
· Let interest rates be dictated by forces of demand and supply (not by the politburo)
· Interest rates be determined by market forces

5. Competitive exchange rates
· Do away with fixing the Z$ to the US$
· Let the currency find its level through the unforgiving market forces
· Let the exchange rate be dictated by market forces
· Markets can eliminate all the “Amapostoli” off the streets because there won’t be any opportunities for them to profit from distorted currency values.
· Eliminate artificial exchange rates that give rise to the black market in currencies.

6. Trade liberalisation
· GVT must not control prices of goods
· Let these be dictated by the market
· Noe asithi uyathunga amaJesi (not to be confused with amaJazi), Ijesi elilodwa liku coster Z$ 20 000 ukulithunga (material,electricity, rent, your workers etc), ma ufika emakete uthola u GVT uthi lithengise nge Z$ 15 000. Surely you have no option but to close shop. But the market (free market can allow you to sell at Z$ 30 000. Profit Z$10 000.
· Khangela an efficient market in action (cell-phone business, exchange rates provided by “amapostoli”. Look at the efficiency and speed of execution. Compare that to the endless queues kwa Cabs.
· Another example, Noe graduates from University of Bulawayo (aka NUST) with an accountancy degree, KPMG Chartered Accountants want to pay you US$5 000 per month, the GVT steps in and says “no ways” rather pay her Z$10 000. Noe you are selling your skill (brains). Let the market dictate how much your skill is worth, not the GVT.

7. Liberalisation of Inward foreign direct investment
· Facilitate and help foreign investors by making conditions favourable
· Do not subject them to punitive and unreasonable delays and bureaucracy (particularly in processing papers).
· Help them open those huge chain stores and create jobs for our sisters( Makro, GAME, SHOPRITE, OK BAZAAR, you name them).
· Help these investors set up a BMW factory in Tsholotsho (nice sandy roads down here by the way. Your “Shona” boyfriend’s BMW M3 can glide with ease down here in my village Noe do not worry .
· Let investors import fuel independently, no government interference.

8. Privatisation
· Privatise all state parastatals, like NRZ, ZUPCO,ZISCO,ZESA, Air Zim etc etc etc.
· This will make them more competitive and profit oriented
· No more state funding
· These corporations have to pay corporate tax
· Now they will be contributing to the tax base instead of being funded by tax-payers.
· Management of these parastatals will be assessed besed on performance not nepotism.

9. Deregulation
· Do not regulate farming, employment, industrial activity etc etc
· Let the farmers do what they know best (GVT knows nothing)
· Remove all regulations relating to mining and financial transactions
· Do not control prices> leads to shortages

10. Secure property rights
· We all saw what happened to the economy once property rights are not protected constitutionally.
· Starvation followed illegal farm seizures
· Confiscation of ZAPU properties in the 1980s led to the rise of “dissidents” (lack of a better word mfowethu Gwesela).
·

Now in conclusion , Noe, a combination of all these factors implemented whole-heartedly will pull the country out of its current intensive care unit death-bed.

siyabonga Lobengula, sibonga lawe Noe usuncede Inkundla okwamanje sesiyayibona into etshiwo nguLobengula. sikorobho bani esizasetshenziswa ukukorobha inepotism lobusela bamashona? coz nxa ngikuzwa kahle Lobengula you are envisaging for a transperant and an accountable gvt which put anything shonish out of the seen. this strategy can be more effective without amashona. this sounds a very noble and disciplined economic strategy which is not a supprise why it was adopted by noble guys like NELSON ROLIHLAHLA. ngincedani Mthwakazi with the current gvt can this strategy be adopted?[WASHINGTON CONSENSUS]

ngiyabonga Lobhengula you have indeed brought some light into my darkness.
SA has done very well in terms of economic growth but surely it wasnt roses all the way. in the adoption of any strategy that demands change there is bound to be a problem or two here and there. am i right? in the long run, judging by your last post and by what i see for myself in SA, i'm sure that the pros far outweigh the cons of adopting the Washington consensus.
nonetheless, decisons have to be made with full knowledge and that involves knowing the problems to be faced in the event of some bright spark in this country actually implementing said strategy.what if any, are/were these problems?

what i am particularly worried about is how this implementation would impact on marginalised areas such as binga, in mat. north. will they see the benefits? after all even SA still has rural areas does it not? adopting the WC after SA means that we can learn from their mistakes if any, and tailor-make the WC to our needs.

also, is it possible for the market to dictate terms even to marginalised areas? doesnt there have to be legislation in place to attract investors to such areas?i'm asking becuase sonke siyazi ukuthi to all intents and purposes mat-land is a marginal area. can we then benefit from the consensus without legislation in place to attract investors? remember, we are all that we have. we are poorly represented in Gvt...is that unimportant???

we are all here because we want to see elikaMthwakazi liphucuka angithi???ngokunjalo -ke, mayiqhubeke itshukwa.

ngiyema.

Mnumzane Lobengula:

I understand the point about South Africa. But, in real terms, how much can we really learn from the South African case study? This question becomes important if we realise that, about a decade ago, the so-called Washington Consensus was implemented by a handful of Latin American countries that were emerging from conditions pretty much similar to ours. This was around the time of the inception of these now legendary 10 policy instruments, courtesy of one John Williamson, a Senior Fellow at the Institute of International Economics.

I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, the original paper by John Williamson focussed on the problem of addressing the debt crisis in Latin America, via implementation of certain policy reforms. Essentially, one of the goals of the original article was to set out what would be regarded IN WASHINGTON as constituting a desirable set of economic policy reforms. As the man says in his own words, "..an important purpose in doing this is to establish a BASELINE against which to measure the extent to which various countries have implemented the reforms BEING URGED ON THEM..."

As you know, the 10 reforms that were originally put forward by Williamson are:

1.Fiscal discipline
2.Reordering public expenditure priorities
3.Tax reform
4. Liberalising Interest Rates
5. A Competitive Exchange Rate
6. Trade Liberalisation
7. Liberalisation of Inward Foreign Direct Investment
8. Privatisation
9. Deregulation
10. Property Rights

The point I'm getting at is that the results of the Latin American "experiment" with the Washington Consensus were painfully disappointing, to put it mildly, "particularly in terms of growth, employment, and poverty reduction". The real issue then is how do you account for the dismal performance of "many countries that made a conscientious attempt to implement the sort of reform agenda advocated by aboWilliamson"? Further, what sort of measures need to be put in place to ensure that there's no "implosion", such as what happened in Latin America? In short, what went wrong in Latin America, and how do we know that South Africa has "got it right"? What critical parameters are you focussing on when you say "SA has got it right"? Has it, really?

Williamson identifies a couple of reasons/points why things went wrong ezansi yezwekazi leMelika. I found two interesting ones, which might be worth mulling over:

1. Countries ought NOT to have adopted the Washington Consensus AS AN IDEOLOGY. There will always be other things that matter besides those included in any attempt to lay out a general set of policy guidelines, and for a policymaker to imagine that s/he can stop thinking and simply follow a set of policies that someone else CONCOCTED is irresponsible.

2. Anyone offering a new set of policy guidelines as of 2002 has a DUTY to include a set of SUGGESTIONS AS TO HOW CRISES CAN BE AVOIDED.

Previously, a contributor on this thread said something to the effect that whatever economic policy is adopted, it should be "homegrown". I believe, very strongly, that the person had a good point. In other words, we should probably take the good parts of the Washington Consensus and hybridise them with the economic/political reality of uMthwakazi. I think that merely transplanting the WC as it is might lead to complications. In medicine/surgery, it often happens that a patient's body REJECTS the "donated" organ. The result usually is that the patient DIES. I'm afraid, I think we should study the donated organ (or the donor!) more before we proceed with the surgery/operation. Even things as rudimentary as blood type are crucial. The point is, Mthwakazi is already a patient in the economic intensive care unit. This calls for high levels of caution, especially with regard to adopting "appropriate" intervention techniques.

One of the harshest critics of the WC is one Joe Stiglitz. I think it certainly would be a good idea to study what it is he finds abominable in the so-called WC. Personally, I don't think that South Africa alone is SUFFICIENT for us to pronounce that the protocol/algorithm called the WC "works". We need a much bigger sample space (of countries) to look at before we can make such STRONG statements. Caution is the word, caution.

Finally, let me end by acknowledging the good point that udade u-Noe raised by questioning how implementation of this programme would AFFECT the average man/woman/child on the street. Again, I'll resort to the brains behind the WC, uMnumzane Williamson. He says
"..a third reason for disappointing performance (in Latin America) is that the objective that underlay the WC was EXCESSIVELY narrow. It consisted in accelerating growth without worsening income distribution, which was as much as I judged official Washington would subscribe to in 1989. If one regards POVERTY as an affront to human dignity, then one will care not simply about the level and growth of income BUT ABOUT ITS DISTRIBUTION AS WELL".

In my mind, I think this captures Noe's point quite well.

Ngiyabonga bantu bakithi.

Ndukuzibomvu wakwethu

Your contribution above is indeed of a high standard and even the best economists here in Tsholotsho agreed with me when I said this. Nduku, I always appreciate researched facts that provide a basis for an empirical predisposition.
Having said that, let me quickly put across to you that the problems that you ascribe to Latin American economies were essentially what became known in the financial world as the Emerging markets crisis which affected all the emerging economies particularly the so-called Asian Tigers. The following is a detailed analysis of that crisis (again a portion from a research I prepared for my Economics assignment at Natal University’s Graduate School of Business). My next post will then be addressing your concerns as they relate to Latin America per se (subsequent post).

An empirical review of the dangers of undisciplined fiscal spending and monetary expansion

Background to the Emerging Markets Crisis

The start of what was called the Emerging markets crisis dates back to the mid-1990s reflecting a change in the economies of a number of Asian and Latin American countries . The countries most affected were Indonesia, the Republic of Korea, Malaysia, the Philippines, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, Columbia, Chile and Thailand [Stals, 1998a]. The most recent extension was an infliction on the financial systems of some of the industrial countries, such as the United States of America. The emergent of the crisis as a regional problem of the countries surrounding the depressed economy of Japan, indeed became a global problem that is now demanding the serious attention of the total international community. A number of reasons were provided for this collapse which shocked the world economy, particularly because it occurred in those countries that were the most successful in achieving their economic development objectives during the past 20 years. The main reasons for the turmoil depicts the dangers of undisciplined fiscal spending and monetary expansion as follows: -


The basis for undisciplined fiscal spending and monetary expansion

Analysis of the economic crisis that influence the economic condition in global financial market indicates the following as the causal factors:-

· a substantial build-up of foreign liabilities -- particularly of a short-term nature -- took place over the protracted period of rapid economic growth;
· the financial sectors were not properly supervised and regulated, with the result that banking institutions accumulated large amounts of non-performing loans, not provided for in capital and reserves;
· there were unjustified governmental interventions in the normal working of the financial markets. Financial institutions were, for example, instructed to make loans to preferred clients at low interest rates;
· governance within private sector institutions, public corporations and government departments was of low quality and, in the case of some countries, undermined by corruption;
· macroeconomic policies did not adjust to the changing environment; markets were liberalised without concurrent adjustment in internal economic structures; money supply and bank credit extension increased almost unchecked; interest rates were kept artificially low, and exchange rates were not allowed to adjust in accordance with changes in the overall balance of payments situation.

The final collapse was triggered first in Thailand, when foreign investors lost confidence in the economy and started to withdraw part of their more liquid investments from the country. The authorities were very slow to react to the threatening crisis. Important information on the deteriorating economic situation was withheld from the markets and vital statistics were, in some cases, deliberately not released.

In the end, the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, a number of the governments of industrial countries, and the international investment community, had to provide a massive amount of financial support -- more than US $120 billion -- to assist these countries. The countries themselves also had to implement painful corrective measures that will, over time, restore equilibrium in their economies. These programmes inter alia provide for:

· relatively restrictive monetary policies that must prevent further depreciation of the currencies to protect domestic institutions with outstanding foreign liabilities from further losses, and must eventually reduce inflation;
· the restructuring of the financial sectors through predetermined reform agendas in each country. Public sector rescue operations must be supported by cost sharing sacrifices from the private sector, and prudential regulations for financial institutions must be tightened;
· improvements in public and corporate governance and a strengthening of transparency and accountability;
· a reduction in the dependence of public sector budgets on external funds, and fiscal provision for the costs of restructuring and recapitalising banking systems.

The devastating effects of the crises can be illustrated by a few statistics from some of the affected countries. According to a recent World Bank report, prices of key commodities, such as rice, increased by 25 per cent or more in Indonesia, leading to food riots and major demonstrations against the Government. Unemployment rose sharply and the number of people living below the poverty line increased from 23 million to 40 million during the course of 1998.
In Korea, bankruptcies and unemployment rose sharply. Eight of the thirty biggest conglomerates filed for liquidation. Unemployment was expected to increase to 1,2 million workers. In Thailand, the slump in industry was severe. Monthly sales of motor vehicles, steel, consumer electronic goods and durable consumer goods dropped dramatically.

Ndukuzibomvu wakwethu

Mfowethu the following is an analysis specifically of what happened in Latin America in relation to their adoption of the Washington Consensus. Nduku you will remember that any economic policy you follow is dependent on the regime in power. If the regime is corrupt and recklessly malicious in its approach, even if you bring the current Nobel Prize winner in economics Professor Joseph Stiglitz as your financial advisor, your bottom line will be zero. A typical example is the butcher of Matebeleland who leads the z-country.


The Latin American situation

Underlying the economic crisis in Argentina is a social crisis that afflicts virtually all of Latin America. But there is a lot more to Argentina's free fall than economics[Reding,2002]. If not addressed soon, this crisis will undermine attempts to integrate the economies of the Americas, and become a serious drag on the U.S. economy.
Argentina epitomizes the problems that plague Latin America: inequality, populism and corruption. The root problem is inequality. Latin America has by far the most unequal distribution of income of any region of the world. In Argentina, almost half the population lives below the poverty line.
Yet because Latin American countries are democracies, extreme inequality translates into populism. The easy way to win elections is to offer handouts to the have-nots, either in the form of subsidies or government jobs.
Government subsidies and patronage may help redistribute income, but they do not create new wealth. Thus, the Argentinean economy -- once among the world's most prosperous -- stagnated. The government turned to printing money to keep paying its employees, but that only caused hyperinflation of 5,000 percent per year.
In the 1990s, Carlos Menem, another Peronist president, came up with a quick fix. He pegged the peso to the dollar. That eliminated inflation, and the economy began growing again. But to keep the party machinery well oiled, he had to maintain patronage. He did this by borrowing. But as government debt rose to a staggering 40 percent of GDP, investors got jittery.
President Fernando de la Rua was unfortunate enough to inherit this mess, and it put him in a no-win situation: either pare back patronage and set off social unrest, or try desperate but futile economic measures. Similar dynamics underlie the chronic instability of other Latin American countries. In Colombia, the quick fix for elites and peasants in a country torn by class warfare has been cocaine cultivation and trafficking.
In Venezuela, the quick fix is oil. Populist President Hugo Chavez is squandering oil reserves on subsidies and patronage that do little to foster economic growth, and do not address the root causes of the poverty that afflicts half the population.
In Mexico, where oil alone is no longer enough, President Vicente Fox is facing budget shortfalls. Yet, like de la Rua in Argentina, he is hesitant to trim the federal bureaucracy built by the PRI, because the PRI still has enough votes to block his legislative initiatives.
None of this bodes well for the United States, whose economy is tied to Mexico through NAFTA, and which seeks a hemispheric free trade zone.
Shortsighted U.S. policies are themselves part of the problem. Washington attacks the symptoms, but never the causes, of the Latin American malady. It spends billions of dollars on military efforts to crush left-wing guerrillas, but will not invest in large-scale development assistance.

Bakwethu, kengithi chatha ngalolu daba lwezenotho.

Not so long ago, something called the New Partnership for Africa's Development (NEPAD) was launched by Thabo Mbeki and Olegusun Obasanjo and hailed as Africa's march out of socio-economic stagnation.

Essentially a set of abstract economic and political ideals, NEPAD never took off the ground because it lacks integrity. See my critique of NEPAD in the "Indonsakusa" section of this website.

Back to the issue at hand. In calling for the adoption of yet more abstract economic programs, I wonder why you have ignored NEPAD altogether, after all, it's a "home-grown" initiative isn't it?

Finally, the ANC were woken up to the realities of politics when they were forced to adopt the rightwing economic policies that are at odds with their leftwing leanings. The main tenet of this rightwing orthodoxy is privatisation, which has caused rifts between the leftwing COSATU and the ANC govt.

Ordinary South Africans are opposed to the privatisation of water and electricity services yet their govt is pressing ahead with it.Who's fooling who here?

Ngiyabonga.

Mpho

Kunjani mfowethu, kade ngingakuboni kutheni mtanenkosi? Kungasenani bengikhuluma lo mfowethu (SGN)and he said he needs your e-mail, he's lost it i suppose.
On the debate above, you bring NEPAD into the picture. Remember NEPAD=OAU=AU(African Union). Same faces different names.It's what one can refer to as the "old but new organisation". Forget about all the rhetoric , the sound and fury , the hotch-potch of confusion , the hanky-panky that characterises these organisations are,to put it in your own language, kungahlekisa uhlanya lucatshile.
To begin with, they recently elected one Robert Mugabe as a deputy (vice?) chairman of the African Union. Meanwhile his legitimacy is a subject of court proceedings in his country.
Various NEPAD groups pronounced as follows on the Zim elections:

"legitimate, free and fair"
These are organisations that are failing their litmus test: Mugabe.

On the issue of privatisation,let me put across to you that COSATU (equivalent to ZCTU)members are smiling all the way to the bank everyday on realising the benefits of privatisation.Recently Telkom(=PTC)was privatised and all ordinary South Africans were invited to buy shares. The shares were priced at about R34 each and ordinary people bought inlarge numbers through their pension money, unit trusts, and personal savings. Currently the same shares are priced at R50 each. Thats a massive profit of R16 a share.Assume one purchased 1000 shares at R34 each and is now selling them at R50 each. Pfrofit R16 000. Ironically, Cosatu thru their investment arms have been the biggest beneficiary of privatisation.

Bafowethu there are many methods of Privatisation

1)Public offering of shares in parastatals
2)Private sale of shares in Parastatals
3)Incorporating new private investment into parastatals
4)Selling of assets by liquidation thereby wiping out outstanding debt
5)Break-up of a parastatal into small companies and selling them separately
6)Management or employee buyout of a company
7)Leasing of a parastatal to the private sector
8)Partial contracting out of state enterprises to the private sector
9)Distribution of vouchers to the public to enable them to buy shares in parastatals

Below are parastatals that have been partially sold by the SA GVT and the amounts received:

SABC radio stations =R510 million
Telkom(30%) =R5.6 billio
Sun AIR =R42 million
Airports Company =R1.03 billion
Connex travel =R15 milliom
SAA =R1.4 billion
Sasria =R7.1 billion
MTN =R2.4 BILLION
Transwerk =R19 million
Safcol =R735 million
Telkom (ucingo division)=R690million


The following entities are being sold currently and final amounts to be realised are as follows:

Eskom =R100 billion
Portnet =R100 BILLION
Petronet =R100 billion
Telkom =R100 billion
Sasria =to be determined
Denel =to be determined
Transnet =R10 billion
ACSA =R 6 Billion
SA airways =R 9 billion

All this money then goes to the poor, in the form of black economic empowerment, housing , education,youth development projects, sports, small business development etc etc. The story does not end here, the new privatised companies now have to pay tax to the government which is in turn distributed to the poor as stated above. NO MORE STATE FUNDING FOR THESE PARASTATALS. They have to compete in the market (like me & you) for scarce resources.

All these figures are available at relevant ministries(Ministry of finance & Ministry of Pubic Enterprises)

Bennefits of Privatisation

1)higher economic growth
2)attracting foreign investment
3)capital markets development
4)opportunity of share ownership
5)wider distribution of wealth
6)higher return on investment
7)access to new markets
8)lower barriers to entry
9)improved fiscal position
10)efficiency
11)increased competition
12)new and motivated management
13)new technology
14) higher profitability

Nyasombi.

I digitalisation ise Mashonaland and mostly in Harare. In Bulawayo, it is in select places. The Electric train runs up to Dabuka from the time it was constructed in 1985. People in Plumtree "TOWN" are drinking water from the wells, there is no running water.

Mina I am proud to be Mthwakazian First, then Afrikan Second, Then an Earthling last. Lokho okwe Zimbabwe sizakucitsha. SESISEDUZE.

Thrower, thank you for your 57th Post of 30th October,2003. The 2nd and 3rd paragraph says it all.

Lobhengula, i research yakho iyathokozisa. Please lakusasa ungadinwa. I am surprised back home kuthiwa abantu besiNdebeleni kabafundanga njalo bangamavila. You just defeated that Lobhengula.

Donsende lani bafowethu.

Umngcwele weNkosi yohlanga ubungekho ku Tshangane. Amakhosi o Khayisa basaphila buzani bafowethu bengakafi.

Umngcwele we Nkosi ubuku Mnyathi River. LeNkosi yemuva ithe ithatha ubukhosi ayizawuqhelisa lo umngcwele.

Singaliquma ku Shangane siyabe sitshiye amaNdebele amanengi e Nkabazwe. That would not only creat resentment by our people, but economically we will be weakened.

Li Zwangendaba

Lobengula,

Eqinisweni mfethu i-info. oyifaka lapha iyathokozisa njalo i-expertly.Siyabonga ungadinwa lakusasa.Ngiyathemba bakhona banengi bakusebenzisayo lokhu
Wobani le-end of year enhle lonke lomnyaka omutsha omnandi.

Izulu alisani ngoba abantu sebekonza imali kaMgabe ukwedlula amasiko lenvelo yabo.

Nampo esasibethemba sebesithi uMgabe nguyena ubaba wabo.

Kambe liyangibonisa abantu abenje ngo Andrew Ndlovu sebesekela uMgabe ingathi nguNkomo! Khepha amagukurahundi ayeza!

Asenza amapulazi athathwa ngodli! UMgaxabe usewathengile amagovu la, phinde bamphikise.

Limqotho lelo elokuthi ubafowethu ngamagovu!
Kambe umuntu wesintwini angemukela isipho esivela esitheni sakhe?
Kambe ngabantu abanjani asebesidla labantu ababulala izihlobo zabo ngendlela elobugebengu lobudlovu obunjeya?

Ngakho ke, qalani ngokutshaya abakithi abasebenzela isitha, lingakayi lwisana lama Shona.

Send a message to all collaborators ukuthi uyez' umoya. Lisayikhumbula i necklace?

Lobhengula.

Thank you for simplifying the economic statements.

Mina engicela ukubakwazi is, how feasible is this in the Zimbabwean environment??? Is it not better off prepared for a federal arrangement, where each state will reign in its citizens as compared to trying to change the Shona people overnight in their "quest for riches by what-ever means necessary"

Lakusasa baba. Ukufunda akupheli. And MANY THANKS TO NOE for requesting you to simplify.

Li Zwangendaba.

Zwangendaba

Ayabongeka amazwi akho mfowethu. Njengoba utsho, ngempela ama economic principles lawa sixoxa ngawo specifically for a federal system of Gvt with strong regional (provincial) autonomy. This could serve as a forerunner for the fully fledged state of Mthwakazi independent of the z-ruins.
In a nutshell you are right we are talking about principles for a federal or autonomous Mthwakazi.

Lina baka Band'abalubandebalutshiya uZulu, Lina bakaNtshwintshwi kaNoyanda kandaba, Mawundlu kaMalandela;

In the context of our ongoing debate about the best economic policy for the country, what is your views insofaras the so-called new Governor of the Reserve bank of Zm is cocerned?. What is your view relative to his policies so far? Do you think his approach of auctioning money is the way to go?. How will that affect your pounds, dollars,rands, kwachas,Euros that you send for your respective families every month?. Don't you think the "abolisphatheleni" (amapostoli) in their famous disguised white attire were offering a better rate and efficient service than the endless queues that will characterise the new auctions (predictably one has to fill a heap of forms)? Let us not allow such an issue that directly impacts on our families by-pass us without analysing its pros and cons.

Nanso ke indaba madoda ayitshe.

MntaneNkosi uyabona lendaba kaNgono yaziwa wuyena nabasondelene naye ukuthi uhloseni kodwa kumuntu obephila ngoshintsha ngalento yokuthenga iyindida. Ngisamangele impela, akekho okwazi ukungichazela yona kahle lendaba ukuthi isukaphi iyaphi.Amandla emali yangaphandle athenekile impela yebo kodwa ngokwentengo yezinto akekho ofakaza ukuthi zingahle zehle or kukhona izimpawu ezigqugquzela leso simo, cha.Mhlawumbe zisazoshintsha.Engikuqondisisa kahle ukuthi anginawo umdlandla wokukhipha okuncane enginakho ngikushintshe kumanje ngaphandle kwaleyo eyokondla kuphela. If bonke abantu bephatheke ngalolohlobo ngineqiniso ukuthi uzobuye ayifakele izibuko lendaba yakhe uNgono ndini lona.

Into engasenza siphumelele kwezomnotho ezweni lakithi yikuzithemba kulokhu esikwenzayo, lokusebenza nzima. Sivele abanegi bethu sisebenza gadalala kwamnye amazwe, into esingayiboniyo yikuthi inzuzo etholakala lapho ayithuthukisi neze izigaba zakithi lapho esivela khona.

We are encroached in self imposed slavery !!!

Emancipate yourselves brothers and sisters. If you think Mgabe is enslaving you, do a Kunta Kinte!

Bafowethu..

firstly I would like to thank Lobengula for starting such a great topic,I would vote this the best topic on the discussion forum i have come across.

secondly I would like to thank every one who has contributed to the topic.Every view is very respectable and I respect all of them no matter how small or big.

I have been following this topic since it started and it has helped me greatly in my studies but have chose not to contribute much.For those of you don't know,i am currently enrolled at a University and economics is one of my majors,as a result I was very intrested in the topic.In one of my assignments I used a lot of the points from this topic and I scored 86%.The lecture called me in and questioned me on my sources.i was a bit reluctant to reveil the source but i did and he was very impressed.

So I would like to thank you all,for the contibutions.i have really learnt a lot from this discussion forum,hopefully i will contribute and other people gain because I have also gained from them..

thanx..

Lina beSilo,

Is the Gonorrhea(Gono's financial policies) effect working? The recent closure of corrupt banks and the cosenquential arrests of equally corrupt financial executives has sent shock waves through the financial markets across the globalised financial system. In the context of current financial regulations, corporate governance provisions require high levels of financial integrity and honesty. The Zim financial system has been dealt a severe blow by these rotten elements. The questions which obviously arise are the following:

In the context of our ongoing debate about the best economic policy for the country, what is your views insofaras the so-called new Governor of the Reserve bank of Zm is cocerned?. What is your view relative to his policies so far? Do you think his approach of auctioning money is the way to go?. How will that affect your pounds, dollars,rands, kwachas,Euros that you send for your respective families every month?. Don't you think the "abolisphatheleni" (amapostoli) in their famous disguised white attire were offering a better rate and efficient service than the endless queues that will characterise the new auctions (predictably one has to fill a heap of forms)? Let us not allow such an issue that directly impacts on our families by-pass us without analysing its pros and cons.

Bafowethu asiyihlafuneni le indaba ukuze singasaleli emuva kwezombusazwe ngoba ilizwe leli lakhiwa ngezithukuthuku legazi labo babamkhulu.
Instead of accusing each other of being both agents and sellouts of the demented despot, rather let us discuss issues of "bread & butter" which directly affects our children.

Mawundlu kaMalandela

As a follow up to the above topic, here are additional issues which warrant our collective thought process through debate and discussion.

1) Is the continued weakness of the Zim$ good or bad for the economy?. What about hyper-inflation which is currently savaging the country reducing it to dismal financial levels? Is it a good phenomenon or should we rather have low inflation but high unemployment (per the so-called Philips Curve)? Is an environment of high interest rates good or bad? Why is socialism incapable of addressing these problems?. Should we rather subject ourselves to the unforgiving forces of demand and supply(ie. market forces)? What is inherently faulty about Mugabenomics (myopic economic policies pursued by Mugabe resulting in economic decay and decadence, value degradation and a spectacular rate of economic regression)? What about the so-called "cyclone-Gono" or "the Gonorrhea effect" (new Reserve Bank Gorvenor Gono's anti-corruption drive?. Is it not too little too late? Will Mugabe take the financial medicine prescribed by Gono given the fact that corruption is intrinsically part and parcel of Zanu-pf's lifeline?
Bafowethu labo abathanda ukuxoxa ngezomnotho langezezimali (economics & finance) asixoxeni ngayo indaba le kabanzi ukuze singasaleli emuva ekuthuthukeni ikakhulu ukuthuthuka kwezemiqondo.

Nkosi yohlanga

Uvo lwami yilolu:
Phecelezi, the weakness of the currency is deadly. The country itself is a leper due to its spiraling hyper-inflationary environment. The incessant currency weakening is devastating to citizens (both inside and outside). However, had the economic fundamentals been in place, and international relations in order, there would have been plausible economic activity, exports would have been cheaper on the international market and thereby creating much needed foreign currency reserves. The status quo is a cul-de-sac. It is a bottomless pit and, funny enough, the mongrel (umgodoyi) is still digging further down to permanently cripple the future.

Hyperinflation is killing man! It reminds one of the sad days when Germany was under recession (people were literally carrying bank notes in wheel-barrows: just to buy the bare necessities). Under hyper-inflationary conditions, savings are useless, insurance policies are worthless pieces of paper. Pension funds are rendered useless – umuntu usebenza aze aye kwagoqwanyawo ngoba ukuthatha umhlalaphansi akusizi neze. Wages and salaries are rendered meaningless, the production process (the life blood of the economy is grounded). Suffice to say that the negative externalities on the social fabri are sickening. Ububha ungabubona buhamba esitaladweni ndoda! Izifebe zona angisasho – yinkindlane awubheke wena!

High interest rates can sometimes work to curb inflation in a normal world. EyakwaMgodoyi ndoda yinkiyankiya. The spiraling interest rates are the cousin of hyper-inflation as banks try to eke a survival path. Ultimately, the common man cannot afford anything as the cost of borrowing and capital ends up above the capital itself. It’s just a vicious cycle of ububha kuphela. Izwe lifile mnakwethu.

Talk of socialism. That concept is archaic. However honourable it might have been, it cannot resolve the quagmire yaleliyazwe. At least kube its applied in its purest form by level-headed people, then maybe it would have worked. Manje laphayana ndoda kugcwele umkhonyovu too much – so ngeke isebenze. On that note, I am inevitably led to reflect with sadness on the pseudo-socialist fiasco of Ujamaa in Tanzania. That alone makes me skeptical of the virtues of socialism in resuscitating the doldrums of Mgodoyi’s land. It is too dangerous a port to steer a sinking ship towards.

Mugabenomics is tantamount to Akpatsenomics (ie someone urinating on your feet while at the same time telling you that it’s raining). Sad indeed. Gonorrhea effect is a shot in the dark. It can only work in the mind of the desperate octogenerian megalomaniac and in the process hoodwink the sycophants zakhe. Abantu bafulathela izwe ukusa kwamalanga mntakwethu. Leya nto ngeke ize isebenze.

What is needed there is an overhaul of the whole system, starting with ukususwa komgodoyi uqobo lwawo. Economic fundamentals have to be set. A normal situation has to set in socially, politically, diplomatically and sundry. We cannot continue to have a pariah state, an island led by a madman. A country has to exist in union with the rest of the world. It has to take its place in the global village – only then can we talk about market forces dictating the economic rhythm.

Corruption is endemic within the mgodoyi structures. It’s characteristic of the Shona mentality. Bathanda umkhonyovu too much! Even at street level – I remender during my varsity days in Harare – when windowshopping in town, the clothes salesmen in the store would approach you with an offer to sell you any merchandise you want in the store for a song – ephasishini, ngaphandle kwevinkili. If you took the offer, for sure bazokugaya izimpahla masitsha nje! Kushukuthi lababantu umkhonyovu bawuncela kubonina – ngeke bahlukane nawo; usegazini!

Lastly, we have to embark on a crusade to clean up the whole system. Izwe libolile. Lidinga ukugezwa. Time and experience often give birth to a re-examination of values and a refocusing of perspective. Unfortunately that’s not the case kwaMgodoyi. Even the tyrant’s sycophants have seen that he’s lost it. One of them lamented the sordid state of the country by saying: “ the current state is like a relay team that started a race well but then handed the baton to a madman who ran with it into the mountains!”

Need I say more - nina bakaMzilikazi kaMashobane kaZikode kaMkhatshwa kaKhumalo kaMntungwa kaMbulazi.

Angibonge

Isishwapha sikaNdonga, okamthakath’ owathakath’ emini.
Inxangiphilile.
Ongoye.

Mtongenakudla (Mkhwanazi, Nkwaliyenkosi)

Your noble views have been noted. You have kick-started the debate and discussion on this thorny issue of Mgodoyi's financial mess. Let ideas criss-cross each other on this forum which is a cross-roads of ideas.

I do understand what you saying Lobengula and I think you have elaborated very well the meaning of "washington consensus" and I do agree with what you are saying but my many worry is how do we implement it. As I was reading on a good friend of us wrote, and i understand,we have to take "shonas" out for washington consesus to work but in my point of view I think we need to work together with "shonas" to build a better nation. There is only one way to archieve this, we must have multi political parties in gov and fight coirruption and invest in education because " a nation that invest in its children it invest in the future".

Tabiso
I agree with your views 100%. Like you also rightfully assert, the problem is implemantation. Implemantation will remain a hell of a big problem as long as the current Zany Gvt is still in power. Remember they failed miserably to implement ESAP(Structural Adjustment Programme).
The bottomline is this that Shonas have become synonymous with corruption. Now the question is: Do you start this "washington consensus" at a dubious level tainted by corruption or you want fresh hands. That is the Zim$2 trillion question.

Kengibuze baka Malandela.

There were some reports a couple of years ago on some oil, or was it gas, deposits that were discovered in the Lupane area.

I need the details of these findings. If anyone has a clue, or better still, knows the whole story sicela asazise.

Lobengula
Ngivumelana lawe kanye loThabiso. The problem is one of curruption because it seems to be a genetic problem with abempumalanga.Its interesting that since 1986 its the guys from the old Zanu who are contually exposed as corrupt.This underlines iproblem esilayo ekhaya. There is no solution as long as those guys remain calling the shots.

Mbodlomani (ngiqale ngokukubulisa baba)

Funda lapha ngezansi uzoyithola impendulo yombuzo wakho. Bheka iShona elinguNdundzo selikhonya phambili already ngomnotho wakwaMthwakazi:


Us$5m Needed for Gas Exploration in Lupane

The Herald (Harare)

March 15, 2004
Harare

THE Lupane Gas Development Company requires US$5 million to establish the existence of adequate reserves, the chairman of the board Mr Mike Ndudzo has said.
Preliminary drilling by private concession holders and information on the geological formation of the gas reserves has established the existence of gas in Lupane and the major challenge facing the firm now is to ascertain whether there are sufficient reserves.

The potential to exploit the methane gas, used in the manufacture of diesel and petrol, generate electricity and fertilisers and paraffin, could greatly benefit the country.
Fuel supplies, being the cogwheel that drives the national economy, however, dwindled substantially over the past four years nearly grounding all sectors of the economy.
The downstream oil industry plays an important role in the economy as all petroleum products are imported and Zimbabwe spends in excess of US$50 million on fuel imports a month.
Mr Ndudzo said at a board meeting held recently, the Lupane Gas Development Company was tasked to develop the project feasibility study and raise the required resources in a "coordinated and accelerated fashion".
"One of the major challenges facing the board is sourcing of technical and technological partners from friendly source countries and willing global partners.
"At present, China, Iran and Malaysia are the potential technical and development partners," said Mr Ndudzo, who is also the general manager of the Industrial Development Corporation.
The Lupane Gas Development board comprises members from both the private and public sector including the Zimbabwe Mining Development Corporation, the Zimbabwe Power Corporation, IDC and TA Holdings.

Other companies whose members are on the board include Shangani Energy Exploration, Afpenn, Discovery and Chemplex Corporation.

In February 1999, two US investors and a local mining firm, Zimbabwe Mining and Smelting Company (Zimasco), announced the discovery of 500 billion cubic metres of sulphur-free methane gas in a 177 square-kilometre basin near Lupane in Matabeleland North.
The investors set up a joint venture called Shangani Energy Exploration.
"Given the positioning of the Lupane Gas Project at national level, the board believes that professional execution should drive the process

"In this regard, the board agreed to ensure that the research support group comprising the Scientific and Industrial Development Centre (SIRDC), the Mining Research Institute of the University of Zimbabwe, the geological survey and the School of Mines are co-opted into future meetings and activities," said Mr Ndudzo.
He also added that the board was actively seeking the participation by resident Lupane investors and stakeholders in line with Government policy of empowerment and ownership by the local community where reserves are based.

Kuyabongeka Lobengula. Ngikutholile ebengikudinga.

Kengibuze mandebele amahle..

Kathi what has happened to iMatebeleland Zambezi Water Project (MZWP)?Has anything started on the project kumbe bamelele ukuqalisa durning ama parliamentary election ka 2005?Izinto ze Zanu kazithenjwa phela..

Is they anyone who has a clue or knows whats happening esazise lapha.

---------------
'tshela mina sibaloye'

kaMlilo that's a good question.l real don't know what kind of measures have been taken but whatever they are doing..it is taking to long and forever to be completed.You might be right,they might be timing to start any positive work on the project towards the elections becoz since the day it was unveiled,the project has remained a campaign tool for zanu pf.
asazi ukuthi oDabengwa bazama mzamo bani??

hlathi

ithi ngizame ukukuphendula ngombuzo ngeMZWT. UNGAPHI UNKOMO?

GESTAPO - Utsho uphi uNkomo?

-------------
''tshela mina sibaloye'

ngiyabonga Skuvethe for shedding some light nge ndaba ye MZWP.

Kuya danisa sibili ukuzwa kuthiwa oDabengwa labo Masuku bayala lama finacial statements.Kanti why abantu bakithi sibulalana so.Nxa besala uku releaser ama finacial statements bathi abuntu bencede njani.Sihlala isikhala sithi i Goverment is happering development kanti lathi we doing nothing to show kuthi sizimisele ngezinto zethu.

I totally support iCouncil for taking them to court.

-----------
'Honesty builds a man'

Bobaba

Currently the main fundamental problem affecting our people's lives outside politics is the financial implosion which is basically man-made.
The key driver to the economy's decay has been hyperinflation (accelerated inflation). In Mgodoyi the whole phenomenon is derided and referred to as Mugabenomics.

The question which obviously arises is what actually causes inflation? Consequently, what is bad with inflation or hyperinflation as is the case in Mgodoyi? What can our future nation (Mthwakazi) learn about inflation?

Inflation is a process of continuous increase in the prices of most goods (eg beer) and services(medical services) in a country. This does not necessarily mean that all prices increase. There may be some exceptions, such as black and white TVs which have actually declined in recent years. Inflation can therefore be described as a general increase in prices.

How can you measure inflation?

Inflation is measured by defining a basket of goods and services used by a "typical" (used by u gogo uMaNdlovu) consumer and then keeping track of the cost of that basket. In one year Mgodoyi's cost of such a basket has risen by about 600%.

What is essentially bad with Infation?

Inflation is regarded as a bad process because it leads to distortions and problems in an economy. The worst case scenario being the current Mgodoyi's hyperinflation.

Disadvantages of inflation are as follows:

Losses to savers:
If you save your money by hoarding cash(uyigebhela phansi), inflation erodes the purchasing power of the amount saved. For instance, Z$20 000 put underneath a mattress ten years ago could have bought a house in Lobengula West, but can now now purchase only 4 loaves of bread. Even if you save in the form of savings deposits which pay interest(eg bank deposits), the interest may not be enough to compensate you in full for inflation.You have a situation where inflation index is higher than the interest rate. Pensioners are the worst victims because they discover that their pension funds can't help them any more.

Losses to people with fixed incomes:
People with fixed incomes (such as the interest on a fixed deposit, or a fixed salary) find that the purchasing power of their income diminishes over time. Again pensioners are the victims. Also those dependent on Gvt grants like the disabled community.

Losses to taxpayers:
If your salary increases in line with inflation, and no adjustments are made to income tax, you will shift into a higher tax bracket and end up paying a larger share of your salary to the taxman. The so-called bracket creeping effect.

Confusing price signals :
A higher price for a product would usually indicate that people want more of it, that more profits can now be made from it and that more resources should therefore be employed to produce it. In times of inflation this happens as a self fulfilling prophecy. Prices in Mgodoyi are the most confused and confusing in the world. At one time we had the cheapest oil in the world due to confused exchange rates that were fixed to try and control inflation. Such a move only made a bad situation worse situation.

Speculation crowding out production:
An environment of high inflation and financial instability leads to more business people and other resources being devoted to speculation in existing assets such as real estate (properties), and less to expansion of production and employment. This has typically been the case in Mgodoyi where property prices skyrocketed as a direct result of speculation.

Reduced attention to productivity:
Higher productivity is an important sustainable way of improving the overall standard of living in a country. Consequently productivity becomes the victim of inflation. A classic example in Mgodoyi , where productivity has been relegated to the back banner.

Wastage of resources:
During very high inflation episodes (eg Mgodoyi) prices have to be increased daily. A shop assistant, for example, may have the full-time job of writing a new price on each item every day or updating a list of the prices of the various articles; the assistant would, without inflation, have been able to do more productive work, such as selling items to clients. This is typically the case in Mgodoyi right now.

Political turmoil:
A society plagued by high inflation devotes more energy to redistributive issues, in which case each person or group perpetually tries to gain or regain a better price, wage or position. This destroys the fabric of society in a wider sense than simply through its impact on the production of goods and services.

Claims are often made by some people that inflation is not bad. They reason that inflation is necessary to stimulate job creation. They contend that higher inflation will stimulate economic growth. If a country sets out to print money (eg Mgodoyi) with the objective of stimulating economic growth, such a country faces certain failure with the result being a weakened economy with unprecedented levels of poverty.

Boya benyathi!
Buyasongwa buyasombuluka!
Mthiyane!
Gatsheni!
Mtimande!

According to my economics as taught by Dr Guy Mhone (Malawian ex ILO thinktank), there are two types of inflation: ie cost push and demand pull inflation.

So tshela mina wena kaMthiyane, leyana eyakwaMgo yini kahle hle? Kumina it appears like Hyperinflation with characteristics of demand pull and cost push factors.

Fiscal policy
How will government manipulate its expenditure in order to pull the economy out of the Hyperinflation? How do you balance between large public expenditure (to create employment) and reducing the budget deficit? How would you expand the tax base without corresponding increase in the tax rates of individuals (with specific regards to KwaMgo)?

Monetary policy
How would the central bank manipulate the money supply to reverse the hyperinflationary conditions zalaphayana? How can interest rates be brought down to arrest the hyperinflation without a corresponding rise in money supply?

Tshela mina Mtimande!

uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane wakwaDlangezwa.
Inxangiphilile.
KwelikaMthaniya

cry the beloved country

inflation , whatever the differing definition of inflation by the various economics scholars to me lay men, inflation is the persistent upward trend in the monetary cost of commodities we utilise in our everyday lives.

the steep rise in the price of basic commodities in zimbabwe is a manifestation of distorted economic fundamentalis in our economic system mainly , the overprinting of money for political expedience purposes than as a genuine response to the growth in the demand for money

a20kg of maize meal has a floor price of $40,000. 2l cooking oil is $12000, simple bread £3500. pho abadala abase buhera, khezi , and tsholotsho baphile ngani,these elders have the double burden of caring after the aids orphans njengoba umatshayaabhuqe eseqede iproductive population
bear into mind that lthese unfortunate elders apart from looking after the aids orphans , they have absolutley no other source of income apart from a meagre pension of $1000,oo which is not even enough for the mtshova fare oneway

to me these are the practical realities of inflation , the inability by the general poulace to sustai their lives in an economic environment where commodities prices are always sky rocketing

the continued upward trend in the prices of commodities has resulted in many families unable to send their children to school, this creats a vicios cycle and gives credence tothe old english adage which says poverty begets poverty. these families eking a living in these hyperinflationary environment have no one abroad to bail them by donating a £100.

mthwakazi , the situation is very grave in all corners of the country, abantu benkosi bayadubeka.

to compound an already existing crisis useka chatunga uthi yena all the NGO's which do not toe the party line should be denied operational rights. this is very tragic indeed

lastly on an academic note , my simply understanding of our economic landscape and the causative factors behind this alarming inflationary trends is that
the major source of the inflationary spiral of prices is import inflation.the drastic devaluation of the zim dollar against other international countries left the country highly exposed because,any production process in zimbabwe has 50% of the inputs imported , now given the rock bottom value cof the dollar this invariably mearnt all commodities prices spiralled out of control
even ukugayisa umumbu you need idiesel which is also imported in forex

unless as a country zimbawe adheres to the principal tenants of democracy and is reaccepted back into the mainstream of the world, unless zimbabwe cleanses its soiled image we wont be able to attract the injection of foreign resources to inject life into our economy

the key lies in developing and sustaining export oriented enterprises which will lead to higher inflows of forex and arrest the spiralling of inflation

in the meantime bandla, senzeni ngabazali and the orphan kids of our deceased cousins who find it increasingly difficult to survive in these abnormal economic circumstances?
£100 can buy four donkeys , lekhuba and inhlanyelo as a seed capital ukuthi bavuke.mahlabezulu, lilazo izihlobo ezikule inkinga

l pray my words will find a soft spot in the hearts of many and they embrace the helping spirit .charity begins at home qala within your household and the gospel will propagate

Badala Abahloniphekayo!

Ngizwa lapha livumelana ngokuthi iFree market Economy yiyo engalungela iZimbabwe but okuMgodoti mele kusuke kulungiswe ipolitics, administrative institutions and property rights. fair and fine. Where does this leave health care,education and social services. All of us know that these institutions have suffered the worst brung from Mgodoyi's policies or lack there of. Any ideas on how institutions like NSSA and the National AIDS program could be used for the benefit of the larger population or would their survival be threatened by the Free Market Forces. I ask this because public health financing is a major issue for both developed and developing countries. Would basic health care and education remain a right in the new dispensation?

Bafowethu (nabo dadewethu)

Your responses above regarding the question of inflation (hyperinflation) and its manifestations in Mgodoyi are esteemed indeed and your views are reflective of people who have experienced first hand the dangers exhibited by inflation.

Mtongenakudla raises the question of demand pull inflation and cost push inflation. These two are classic and fundamental causes of inflation alongside excessive money supply. This means that we must address the question of what causes inflation in detail.

Our dearest sister, Inina, highlights the effects of inflation (hyperinflation) on Mthwakazians and the severe consequences it is afflicting upon our people. Once we address in detail what causes inflation (my subsequent post) we then need to dwell on the solution to inflation. The solution was well addressed on my post in this thread where we were looking at the Washington Consensus.

Our one and only Mbila, raises the issue of health care and the provision of social services visa-vis inflation. This is one hell of an area which has been hard hit by inflation. One must remember that this sector caters for the most vulnerable members of our society (disabled, elderly,blind, unemployed etc). Again our discussion on the Washington Consensus covered this aspect as well.

Bafowethu,

I think it is not very easy to pin down the current galloping inflation in Zimbabwe to either cost push or demand pull but I think a bit of each may be the cause.

Demand pull inflation is when monetary policies are used to increase aggregate demand-goods and services in the economy in order increase the circulation of money.Cost push inflation is when outside raw materials e g oil increase in price and that has a ripple effect on other economic factors subsequently raising prices.

Phillips curve tells us that there is generally a trade-off btwn increased inflation and un-employment,that is moderate inflation and low levels of un-employment.However I think the current high level of inflation in Zimbabwe should be understood in the context of its negative effects.I personally think that because Mgo's people are at the helm of every individual financial and other institutions in the country it has been easy for them now especially from 2000 to let inflation spiral to its current hyper-level in order to destroy the non-indexed financial assets e g pension funds.Since these funds belonged to a middle class group mainly white people,the strategy has been to destroy such structures which belonged to MDC supporters.

The unpredictable aspect of redistributing funds in the high inflation environment saved Mgo and his people very well.Like on the land issue they have not earned their spoils,and the losers do not deserve their fate.The ENG saga is a tip of the ice-berg.The sad economic situation in Zim is further compounded by the shortage of foreign currency which even if it were available would be linning the pockets of the ZAnu PF elite.

These shameful sagas of externalizing forex,swindling millions of public funds,bull-dozing people from their propeties are meant to empower the Shona.No wonder why its only them on the top posts and only them involved in the scandals.We may consider it a shame but for them the gains they are making are Godly given and they are doing it for POSTERITY.As for us o- Mthwakazi as long as we want to be part of Zimbabwe we will whine until A M E N.They are not going back.Laba abantu akula nto esingayenza labo ezophumelela.Asehlulekeni sisenza okwethu lathi.

In most developed countries there are Social security systems to protect vulnerable citizens against unplanned inflation rises and unfavourable economic situations as in Zim.These are funded by many forms of taxes.Does anyone know what NSSA is for in ZIM.Institutions such as NSSA,Aids levy,Drought levy are meant to congregate national funds in Zim but for whom?Their economic policies are neither western or african they are pure fogery and theft.Sizakumela kuze kube nini lokhu?

Bafowethu

We have alluded above to possible causes of inflation. What follows is an attempt at documenting some of the major causes of this economic disease called inflation.

Causes of Inflation:

1)Credit extension
The excessive rate of increase in bank credit extended to the private sector is one hell of a causative factor of inflation. This also results in a rising level of indebtedness of private households. This means that a high percentage of the average household's income is used for the sole purpose of servicing the cost of its debt.

2) Excess Money supply
Literally printing money to finance projects or using printed money to pay for "war-veterans".
According to the advocates of monetary theory, inflation is primarily a monetary phenomenon. Monetarists largely fear the inflation episode, which they believe is incubated in a lax monetary posture. Monetarists contend that the immediate result of tighter monetary control is unemployment, but this they say is the price or sacrifice we have to pay to achieve stable prices. Monetarists are fearful of inflation and are tolerant of unemployment, which they say is the natural consequence of stabilising prices. Monetarists believe that a rate of money supply of 3% to 5% is required in order to stem the tide of inflation.

3)Demand pull inflation

Price increases resulting from higher demand for a product. A simple example, if demand for beer increases, it follows that the price of beer will also increase due to the increased demand. Equally, if demand for amafrozen increases because it's too hot, the price of amafrozen will shoot up. Hence we witness substantial price increases due to the demand for amafrozen.

4) Cost push Inflation

If production costs increase, the extra costs will be passed on to the consumer.If input costs ( raw materials) increase, all these are passsed to the consumer in the form of price increament.

5) Imported inflation
This comes with imports that are normally priced at a higher level than local products. A chief component of this is oil and petrol. These are priced in US$ and with Mgodoyi's exchamge rate having gone haywire, the result has been more inflation.

6) Demand for higher wages
Unions often demand higher wages and salaries for their members. The company just passes this on to the consumer in the form of higher prices for the product.

7)Depreciation of local currency
When converted to US$ for example, the local currency tends to weaken and hence imports for much needed supplies become even more expensive.

8) Drought
Particularly for an Agro-based economy like Mgodoyi, prices of staples like vegetables, maize just skyrocket.

9)Speculation & perception

This becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy particularly when consumer begin to assume that the prices will rise and the currency will weaken.

Its good we have economists in our midst, this subject of inflation is very complex to me. I thought it was simple but from your explanations i have realised that many things contribute to inflation. My question now is, which factors are playing the central contributory role in the ever increasing inflation in zim? Could there be a ridiculous inflation like ours if an economy is properly managed and the political conditions are favourable for enterprises. Can politics in a way contribute to inflation, e.g. misgovernance, the lack of rule of law, violence, the lack of will to service the international debts (balance of payments), lack of credibility of the government etc, i really don't know, i wish i was an economist, maybe i was going to see things differently and in an enlightened way.
All the factors you mentioned above, i think they are right, i agree with them, but i was just wondering whether there is something major that causes those factors. i am told that economics is a social science open to many human influences and i am told it works on assumptions, so i really don't know the accuracy of your explanations as you didn't state your assumptions.
It is interesting to note that one of the richest countries in the world once had this so called hyperinflation as high as 29720% by october 1923 from a mere 5% in january 1922 that is Germany.
The other countries that come to mind are Bolivia 11000% in 1985 and Ukraine 10000% in 1993 and some South American countries. I want to know how these countries solved their problems and whether their circumstances were different from ours and therefore we need different mechanisms.

Sibambamahawu

Kunjani mfowethu.The points you raise above are excellent and indeed valid in this discussion of hyperinflation.
To answer your question regarding Mgodoyi's hyperinflation, the following will suffice:

*Mgodoyi's hyperinflation(accelerated inflation) is a direct result of all of the above factors with one or two being dominant from time to time. Like you rightly point out, failure to honour foreign debts only worsens the situation because it leads to bad credit record and possible down grade by the rating agencies. from there on you can't secure funds from any where in the world for medicines, food, fuel etc.
Remember what catapulted Mgodoyi's inflation was his massive printing of Z$ to finance his "war veterans". The war vets in turn disrupted agriculture leading to severe food shortages, dramatic shrtages of forex (no more tobacco exports), unemployment reared its head, World bank/IMF suspended the country's credit lines, property rights were undermined, prudent monetary policy was thrown out, political whims ruled supreme. Imports became more expensive, products became scarce, industries closed shop, professionals exited the country, hunger precluded starvation, votes were rigged, political upheaval set in, the currency was fixed to the US$, triggering an unprecedented black market that involved collusion between banks, Gvt officials, amapostoli etc etc. Now look at the causes of inflation cited above and search for their presence in Mgodoyi's situation:
In summary all this resulted in:
*excessive money supply to finance war veterans
*demand for higher wages by workers
*food shortages (due to farm invasions)
*lack of forex (no more tobacco exports etc)
*Cost push inflation (massive rises in raw material , transport and production costs)
*drought also played a part

Virtually all the causes of inflation were at play. The blame for all of these like you rightly pointed out lies squarely at the door of Mugabe and his dictatorial government.
When we address the possible cures for inlation, more of your other questions will be addressed bro. Hey mfo, akunginikeze ama Pounds this inflation is ruining our lives lapha e Tsholotsho.

How To Curb Inflation

Remember, inflation is like smoking. It is easy to state but difficult to implement. Equally the problem of a smoker is easy to state but difficult to implement. Stop smoking. Equally with inflation just stop printing excess money!!!!
The following are typical cures for the inflationary disease:

1) Seeking stability on the currency front
· Strengthen the value of your currency
· Protect the value of the Z$

2) Remove obstacles to free flow of trade
· Adhere to free market principles

3) Avoid deficit financing
· stay away from debt, spend what you have
· common disease of many African Gvts

4) Balance the budget
· reduce budget deficit
· useless areas like the military, cut down

5) Restore competition
· encourage private enterprises
· do away with monopolies

6) Keep demand within bounds of productive capacity
· no credit extension that leads to overheating the economy

7) Work with labour and business leaders
· to ensure reasonable wage settlements

8) Privatise parastatals
· cease to be a burden to taxpayers

9) Keep money supply at same level as expansion of wealth
· avoid excessive money supply

10) Increase productivity through foreign direct investment
· reduce corporate tax
· respect rule of law (no farm invasions)

11) Free exchange rates of currencies
· let the market dictate these
· let interest rates find their own level

12) Free exchange rates of currencies
· let the market dictate these

13) Refrain from introducing unearned money into the economy (debt)

14) Stimulate development of natural resources

· eg Lupane oil and gas reserves

15) Abolish import duties on oil and oil products
16) Remove commodity taxes on beer and tobacco

One of the central requirements to curbing inflation is to have an independent central bank whose operation is guided by clear economic sense rather than political zeal.

The central bank would have to set inflation levels using economic indicators and other variables relevant to that economy.Usually moderate inflation is known to facilitate economic growth and reduce unemployment.

However in Zim the possibilities are that it may not be clear if the central bank is part of Zanu the party or the civil service.The difference btwn the two being that the party makes any decision to please the povo and yet the civil service has to make those decisions reasonable and workable.Therefore and independent central bank drives the economy,it is responsible for the failure or success of the economy through its fiscal and or monetary decisions.

It seems as if they are trying to do the right thing now with Gono and N Ncube in preparation for next year's elections.

Bakwethu!

Ngicela ukwazi kwabazi ngeze notho ukuthi nxa uPius Ncube ebika an unemployemnt rate of 80% in Zimbabwe right now; who possibly makes up this 20% of the employed. Ilizwe lisasele lesikhathi esingakanani ukuthi liphile kumbe ukuthi life nya nya? Coin that with an inflation rate of 500% and 5 million people facing starvation. What chance does Gonorrhoea really have of turning things around and making emploment prospects a reality for this miserable 80%. Mina kungididanisa ingqondo. Ncedani.

Undoda lo abamuthi ngu Jaz'elindizayo nguye ongakuchazela kahle Mabila. Uyaz'thanda kabi i' statitics l' ubaba.

Saduva

Hatshi ungangilahli kanjalo bo! Ngingowakini....ngicela ulwazi oluza ngeLOGIC hathsi inombolo of dubiou sources. Angifuni Garbage In Garbage Out!

Friends, boMthwakazi look at what they are doing/ or trying to do in South Africa. Great work, we hope it works. This is progress of some kind.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=31&art_id=vn20040815115938922C915959

Majaha

Now it is time for less rhetoric and more action. Companies that fail dismally to have a proportionate representation of Ndebeles in their workforce numbers, management structures and directorships need to be exposed. We need to challenge them to release numbers showing proper and equitable representation from the region. Failure to live up to these ideals will expose the relevant company to a serious risk of products boycott by our people , the consumers. I know for certain that food outlets like Chicken Inn chains do not have or have never heard of something called a Ndebele manager. They operate thriving businesses among Ndebele consumers. A boycott of their products will spell doom for the survival of their operations as whole.
We are the market (consumers) , we are stakeholders, let us use our most effective weapon, our funds to influence the scenario on the ground. First warn the company to sort out its mess and correct the skewed numbers and give it an ultimatum, failure to redress must be met with a total boycott of the very products they sell, when the ultimatum expires. Serious affirmative action policies need to be implemented by these companies. This is the age of consumer activism. Militancy of the consumer if you like.

Less talk more action just like the mad professor from Tsholotsho is doing in his home province.

What do we do with companies that are doing business in Matebeleland (making huge profits) and yet they do not employ people of Ndebele extraction. Don't you think boycotts of their products should be the way forward? Discuss.

It seems people are not ready for consumer activism. In companies today if ordinary shareholders demand action and the company is not yielding, they summarily dismiss the management team. We as consumers are the determints of whether or not a particular company survives or not. If we say to hell with Grace Mugabe's Chicken Inn for example, within a week it will be forced to fold and sent packing out of Bulawayo to Zvimba.
Now the question still remains: do we continue to lackadaisically sit back on our butts and bask in brinkmanship, or do we make our voices heard by issuing the ultimatum to such errant companies?.

I think that the current crisis in Mgaklaland is a blessing in disguise for us. It is a natural wheel of justice used by the heavenly powers to level the playing fields between ourselves and the spoilt Shonas who have treated us with disdain for far too long. This crisis has equalised the level of suffering across the political landscape.

Lobs,

To call for consumer activism when people are dying from hunger and when there is shortage of commodities kumashelves ezitolo kuleliya lizwe is a bit over ambitious. It can only work where abantu abasutha khona and have enough food. I am not an economist but I think this idea of yours is rather not realistic within the context of what is happening in Zimbabwe at the moment.

Kungenziwa yithi who have the buying power that is why when you were busy advertising the home link housing scheme of the Mugabe regime, the likes of oTshalimani shot down that idea. They were being propelled by consumer activism. You never liked it then and the Ndebeles were labeled as people who fail to grab business opportunities when presented with them and who always moan later when the opportunites have passed. How ironic your call for consumer activism is today taking into context your earlier assertions on this matter sometime ago. What has made the King change?

Sinatha

My trademark signature reads as follows:

quote:

---

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with our people buying land and properties in Bulawayo using what ever scheme at their disposal. If we choose to (as predictable) sit back on our butts and bask in brinkmanship and illusion, then Amashona will crowd us out of Bulawayo by buying properties in and around Bulawayo. Needless to say we will be forced to kick our own butts in regret, logic dictates that we need to engage in all manner of activism wittingly and/or unwittingly.

Lobs,

The suggestion that the ndebele people have not been buying houses and were sitting on their 'backs'up until the introduction of this ZPF homelink scheme is rather an insult to their intelligence and their being.

Zama futhi Lobs.

Sinatha

So what you are in fact saying is this that all these tears of abantu besiNdebeleni about the clear and present dangers of being marginalised and crowded out by the Shonas in Bulawayo are just hogwash or balderdash?. Are you saying that their tears are in fact crocodile tears signifying nothing in the neighbourhood of reality? Are we saying mfana kaSitshela that because Ndebeles are so intelligent as you allege above, they are in fact, immune and impervious to all the vestiges and shenanegans of Shona malfeasance. In the extremely unlikely event that your claim is accurate, then can you explain why all this sound, fuss and fury found in our politics where we all cry foul about the Shona shenanegans against our people. Are we then actually saying we are just cry-babies(singabo baby) who are spoilt and always need to be treated with kids gloves? What about the all too familiar brouhaha and imbroglio within our fora about the political and economic vicissitudes that our people are going through in their provinces?

I personally thought that the fears expressed by our people about lack of jobs, imposition of Shona language down their kids' throats, a deliberate occupation of Matebeleland by hordes and herds of Shona souls and mortals were clear and visible signs of continued treachery directed at undermining the Ndebele, backwardising him and condemning him to stone age existential conditions.

Lobs,

Your other entry Lobs does suggest that we Ndebeles, even if we have resources, are by nature not intelligent and initiative enough to develop ourselves if opportunities arise but are known for sitting on our 'butts' and doing nothing about developing ourselves. I am saying that this kind of idea is rubbish. This is a typical Shona stereotype that is perpertuated by our one and only self styled King Lobengula and this is shocking and amazing indeed. My contribution here has been to challenge that stereotype and say to you we are not what you and the Shona believe we are. That is lazy buggers. This is the same stereotype that one of Mugabe's goons was airing in channel 4 here in the UK last week. He was saying that we in tha 'part of that country' are always fed by the government and we do nothing to help ourselves. I say this is bullocks and no serious minded person should subscribe to this kind of perveted thinking. We are responsible people and if we have the resources and face no marginalisation, or ethnic beurocracy heavily enshrined in every institution of Zimbabwe today, we take steps to develop ourselves like any other human being. To attribute that kind of development spirit to the Shonas alone is grossly irresponsible and unwarranted. Why 'backwidise' our people unnecessarily and continue to perpertuate this Shona nonsense? The ZPF homelink housing scheme, with all its intentions to milk our people's foex can not be used as a barometer to castigate our people for not taking part in it. That scheme is there for ZPF to milk our forex and there is nothing else that can dovetail or tailor make your call for consumer activism by boycotting the maShona schemes than this homelink housing scheme that you shamelesly and enthusiastically support. We should boycot that and buy houses directly from our own people in the region. That will be better off.

Ngithemba uyangizwa baba Mthiyana!

Sinatha

Hk hk hk angikuzwisisi simply because your response is emotionally charged thereby camouflaging it from reality and common sense. It borders more and more on rhetoric than reality. Because your response is pregnant with euphoria and fury, it smacks of a dose of wanton vituperative diatribe, when in fact the subject of our discussion is straight-forward. Obviously this is to be expected because acting otherwise would have put a lie to the long held orthodox and dogmatic mantras that we are a conditioned people who, as you allege above, are true to stereotypes as perpetuated by the stunted Mashona.

But the good thing is that it shows that you are indeed extremely applying your mind on this particular issue which in itself is great thing, given your nonsensical statement about basking on your "butts" above hk hk.

Hayi sengiyahamba ke manje mfana sengizakubona ngoMvulo, ngapha sokuyi "woza Friday" hk hk.

Hk hk hk wena ulizanka sibili. Mfana kaMthiyana it is high time you released yourself from this Shona diatribe school of thought about the Ndebele or this Shona tribalist closet form of thinking and attitudes about your people.

Next week! Udakwe kuhle!

Bakwethu

abacwaninga ngezemfundo bathi ama-indicators e-learning yichange of attitude ranging from mood swings to change on how one does his/her daily business. amapostings alomfutho awaxabene akhomba ukufunda(learning)

Lobengula jaha lakwaGuduza wake wethula isethulo esihle ngendlela u******* angathola ngayo iforex. ironically ugono implented a carbon copy of your strategy owayifaka lapha enkundleni. one might wonder, engxenye unguye ugono hk hk! or izanu isila ngenkundla, angingeke ngatsho ukuthi ucabanga njengogono that will be an insult. as a Tjolotjian i choose to be obstinate, ogono copied hk hk!

now here is another homework,sorry for this abuse lami ungangibuza ngokuloya ngizakutshele ezomkhonomi sobuza kuwe. umgwaqo kaWanki uyawazi ngizwa kuthiwa awusela bus a kurakure co. left after whorevests sacked F. Pullen and sons. i know a "Tjepfunye" chap who can come up with R800 000. and reality has that transport business is tantamount to suicide in zim because of fuel scarcity. on your work plan think about extending Wanki route to Francis Town at one end and Livingstone at the other using 2 brand new scarnia buses and volvo later when the Tjolotjo-Titji lap is tarred. this is serious help if you can, iforex is not a problem neither is getting rid of the ridiculous KZim. if this is rubbish say it in no uncertain terms. this is my own version of Mthwakazi's economic empowerment. labanye feel free umfowethu angaphathiseka. i chose Lobengula ngoba uyawazi umgwaqo engikhuluma ngawo kanti njalo waphumela egcikeni ukuthi he is our own Eric Bloc and availed his untainted services as usual and to my chagrin shonas utilized eg gono hk hk!

Lastly, where is Mntongenakudla? angabe ehlabe ikhefu? ukewamchecker eLindela hk hk! kodwa ngethemba uphilile lapho akhona.

asisebenze jo.

Lembe
iLembe eleqa amanye amaLembe ngokukhalipha,Tshaka Zulu

That is a very excellent proposal you are making. Given the fact that Victoria Falls is one of the seven wonders of the world, logic dictates that the shortest route to Victoria Falls for tourists travelling by road is via Plumtree, Tjepfunye, Bubude (KwaGuduza) into Tsholotsho business centre all the way to Victoria Falls through Lupane.

As you rightly state above Wena Wendlovu, currently, the transport business in Zim is a sure preamble to one's own financial obituary. As we ponder on these issues as Mthwakazians, we take note of the fact that the current economic environment is intensely catastrophic for any ambitious business initiative. However, I will contact you privately so that we can deliberate further on your proposal, which I must state that it is very good.

Gideon Gono embraced a blue print which, as you rightly assert above, was born out of my own initiative but true to form, in his capacity as a member of a discredited junta, allowed himself to be hoodwinked and crooked by bereft politicians to the detriment of an otherwise excellent economic framework. What catalysed Gono's failure was his brinkmanship and his self-centred know-it-all maverick grand posture masquarading as a quasi-immortal being who has fathomed all financial rhyme and rhythm. That he failed to consult and seek advice from humble people is well documented. He allowed Mugabe, as usual, to usurp the economic framework and personalise it and turned it into a Zanu-Pf manifesto, and as fate has had it it blew straight up in their faces because they had confused and mixed financial formulae with their communist doctrines. Already reports of Gono being under pressure from Zanu-pf politicians are beginnning to surface.
UMntongenakudla is very much alive and well. Should be in rural KZN (KwaZulu-Natal) this weekend attending a friend's traditional wedding in Mtubatuba. You remember his wild allegations that Kalanga is very much related to Shona?

Lobengula

kuyabongeka ukuphendula kwakho ngokutshetsha. kuhle njalo ngoba into engiyitshoyo uyayibona ngizahle ngikuthinte ngasese manje ngikuphe amadetails onke sixhumane ngencingo.

ngizwa kuthiwa kuyavunyelwa ukuthi angayanatha phandle kwelizwe ungene lesigujana esilingeni imota yakho hatshi amadiramu ongawathengisa, like ofellowship abaya eFrancis Town banatha lapho bangene lelingane uhambo lwabo noma sithi itanka. lokhu ngikuzwe lami ngizama ukufeya feya ekhaya, abalolwazi ngincedeni bafowethu.

Lobengula

There is your posting on inflation, thanx you very much Sir for the posting, can I ask something on som of your points.

There is point number one where you talk of

Seeking stability on the currency front
· Strengthen the value of your currency
· Protect the value of the Z$

How do you do all these things, how do you stabilise the local currency? From what are you protecting your currency from?

Point two
Remove obstacles to free flow of trade
· Adhere to free market principles

Free market principles, do you mean like we do not have to charge any duties or what/ i am not really getting this. If it is about duties, is it a practical solution or its just a theoratical solution. If we do not charge any duties then when we export our products we should get the same favours otherwise we run the risk of that our products will be more expensive as compared to products from other countries. Maybe I did not get what you were trying to put across.

Point eleven

Free exchange rates of currencies
· let the market dictate these
· let interest rates find their own level


I liked this one, is this possible? Which country is using this one? I thought that this was more theoratical than practical, is it not that most of the countries that purpote to be using this kind of an exchange rate have a limit/cap and a floor for their currencies. I mean like their rates are not allowed to get below a certain rate and they are not allowed to be above a certain rate. They manage their rate in one way or the other but they manage it a a way that there are not very many interferences like they do in most african countries.

OK by using this exchange rate regime, how do you protect the value of your local currency???


I think that we will shout and shout and shout BUT the solution really is not that the economy is not doing well, the reason lies in us mending the international relations only. If the silent sanctions are removed then I do not think there will be a problem. I think the Western countries are doing what they can to subortage the economy because of the person they gave a knighthood sometime ago.

I will say we have the resources its now for us to plan kuhle.

Thanx you very much bantu for talking Nation Building

Pope
I think that we will shout and shout and shout BUT the solution really is not that the economy is not doing well, the reason lies in us mending the international relations only. If the silent sanctions are removed then I do not think there will be a problem. I think the Western countries are doing what they can to subortage the economy because of the person they gave a knighthood sometime ago
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I am not going to attempt to answer the questions you poised to Lobs above, but i am failing not to respond to your closing comments. You purpote above that in reality it is not that the economy is not doing well, but the need to mend the international relations only there lies the solution. I am not sure whether you are aware of the factors that have an impact on an economy. This world we are living in has become a global village, therefore "glocal" approach to an economy is absolutely essential. The other thing we must not delude ourselves into believing is that the zim economy started going down after the so called "smart sanctions", the economy started going down a long time ago, an economy that thrives on excluding certain sections of the population on a deliberate move and on political motivated manuerves will not last, it might only last long but not longer.

Mr Pope your comments above reveal to me that you are not aware that the so called "smart sanctions" are targeted only to a certain clique of Zanu pf individuals, they are not economic sanctions. How can you blame the international community for targetting these evil leaders? how is the international community sabotaging the economy?, if it does, of which i doubt you are aware of, when compared to Mugabe and his henchmen who sabotages the economy more?

Sibamba

I will not say much about your comments BUT I want you to just tell us the reasons of any sanctions. I think, this is just a personal opinion correct me if I am wrong Mr. I think these sanctions were put in place to force the people of Zimbabwe to change the government which had fallen out with the western powers. Initially they underestimeted the devil they had created, they thought that if they make the masses suffer then they will inturn say that the government has failed them and then they will vote that government out of power.

The honourable Sibamba, I do not think that we have to be fooled that the smart sanctions are targetted to the selected few. Yes they might say that BUT who is feeling the pinch, is it Mugabe?, is it Mnangaga? I think the answer is no the answer is, the people of Zimbabwe that is the ordinary man on the streets is the one on the receiving end.

I concure with you when you say the government is an evil one yes I agree lami I'm affected like you. Maybe I have some experiences which are worse than yours. Kodwa regarding the issues of these so called sanctions, they are the ones that are really pushing the economy down. If the government is changed and these so called sanctions are removed then you will see that the Zimbabwean economy is not a bad economy at all. The other thing which you must bear in mind is that if we want the economy to be better, we should not like change the current government and put in any one, at the moment they (UK & cronies) want the MDC nxa lingafaka abanye, there is nothing that can be done.

The other thing even thought it is my personal opinion is that even if peole fail to change the rural/ ruling party and someone aligned to the west takes over as president, you will see that things will get better.

Mr. Sibamba I will take the UK as an example tell me about the North South devide, which areas are considered to be having better infrastructure are they in the North or South? Is the economy doing badly? Take RSA is everyone involved or its just the whites and a few black capitalist? I am not getting you when you talk about excluding some sections of the society please elaborate. How does that affect the economy? How does that affect exports and imports?.


I will still maintaing that without sorting our relationship with the Western countries who are sabortaging the economy, we will continue to cry.

At times I do not blame Mugabe, I blame the UK and other western countries. Who rigged the elections for Mugabe to be president? Why is it that we are not blaming Thatcher, she is the one to blame too. Why was she quite when we were being killed. Sorry ungasuki usulahleka and start discusing too much politics lapha coz we are linking it with economics lana and international relations.

Ngiyabonga Sibamba with your posting.

Mr Pope John

Mr Pope can you tell me why were the smart sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe? To my knowledge they were imposed to avoid unnecessary suffering on the part of the general public. We know that economic sanctions directly affect the innocent masses. Most sanctions in the past were meant to cripple the governments concerned or instil some sort of despondence on the part of the masses, so that they could revolt and depose those governments, but such kind of full blown sanctions were discovered that they hurted the masses more than they did hurt the devils they were aimed at. I am not saying that these targeted have no impact on the masses but what i only want to know from you is, how are the sanctions affecting them by denying people like Mugabe to travel to France do to shopping for Grace? Remember that even these countries that imposed these travel bans on Zanu pf individuals still do business and trade with Zimbabwe, how many British companies are still operating in Zimbabwe? There are no restrictions on trade with any country in the world, you can ask how are they to conduct the trade when they are not allowed to travel? firstly, there are zim embassies in all of those countries and the use of technology can enable them to trade without having to travel.

The notion that the economy is going down due to the sanctions i think is a misplaced one. The economy started long back to go down, it was only a matter of time for it to crumble. You allege that when discussing economics therefore i am not to be carried away and involve politics unnecesarily, i will tell you one thing Mr Pope, the economy and politics of zimbabwe can not be seperated when analysing its economic well-being, zim government does not follow conventional economic principles but politics leads or determines the allocation of resources or the misallocation of them. How does discrimination affects the economy? Any country needs to use all available talent at its disposal inorder to reach its full potential, when a country starts practising nepotism on the expense of merit and ability you must know that it is surely leading to destruction. If i am lying Msupa please correct me. Your example of Britain's north and south devide is rather not illustrative enough or to say the truth not to be used out of context. The British government or the private sector allocates resources equitably accross the geopolitical regions of that country, people are not employed because they support the labour party, people can move freely to any part of the country and find that barriers to employment are non-existent. Msupa you will tell me that it is so in zim, but in reality you know it is not, there are no regulations to that effect, that certain people hailing from a certain region must not be employed in zim, that is true, but it has become like British common law or the British constitution that is not written down but known to its citizens.

Marget Thatcher and her Tory government will remain condemned by me for imposing a thief on us.

Thole likamahlabayithwale (Sibamba)

Thanx you very much, in your last posting

quote:

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I am not saying that these targeted have no impact on the masses but what i only want to know from you is, how are the sanctions affecting them by denying people like Mugabe to travel to France do to shopping for Grace?

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Hatshi you said it all. Where is the aid we used to get from other countries? Even though it did not fully get to the masses atleast something goyt to the masses emakhaya. As I speak now some foreign funded organisations that used to operate in Zim closed because of these sanctions Sibamba. CIDA, SIDA used to assist kakhulu BUT now they are no longer doing like they used to, because of sanctions. If like these organisation close their offices who suffers? Mugabe no masses yes. I wanted to give you an example of an organisation that used to operate koGodlwayo okwamanje ngiswelile, I will give you next time.

WEna WeSilo Msupa

I have to acknowledge your clean and objective fight. You are a qhawe, thina oMahlabayithwale siyaziqhenya ngawe.

You asked on your post above that, "where is the aid we used to receive?" my answer is i don't know. Sometimes it is easy to mix issues and end up getting mixed up. Let us be clear on what we are talking about so as not to digress unnecesarily. The government of Mr Mugabe has deteriorated to unbelievable levels, that man has committed all sorts of crimes against humanity, NGOs were not spared, he thought that the civil organisations were sponsoring the opposition political parties. The closure of any organisation has nothing to do with the imposition of sanctions on that "sun-set" political regime. I would be happy if you could elucidate or elaborate on how organisations ceased operations due to sanctions.

Pope John Msupa

I think your assertion and or question relating to NGO can be further answered by the following publication which adds to what Sibamba has alluded to above:

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IRIN/Mercedes Sayagues

Local human rights groups' existence has been threatened by the new NGO bill

JOHANNESBURG, 23 Aug 2004 (IRIN) - The Zimbabwean government this week defended a proposed ban on foreign human rights groups and restrictions on local rights organisations, describing them as a "threat to national security".

In a statement issued by the Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare, placed in all the Sunday newspapers, the government also accused donors of employing "local puppets to champion foreign values".

The proposed Non-Governmental Organisations Bill seeks to ban foreign NGOs concerned principally with "issues of governance", and deny registration to NGOs receiving foreign funding for "promotion and protection of human rights and political governance issues". Details of the bill, which constitute a blow to local civil society, were provided by the government on Friday.

The bill requires all NGOs to register with a government-appointed regulatory council similar to the controversial Media and Information Commission, and disclose details of their programmes and funding. This council will comprise five representatives from civil society and nine government members, all appointed by the Minister of Labour and Social Welfare. NGOs without registration licenses will be shut down, and officials who continue with their activities illegally could face up to six months in prison.

Organisations involved in charity work, disbursing humanitarian assistance, the provision of funds for legal aid, animal welfare, environmental issues and the promotion of human rights are all covered in the bill.

The regulatory council will have the power to formulate a code of conduct for NGOs and decide whether a particular NGO can be registered. The council will also have the right to cancel a registration on several grounds, including if it feels that the NGO's objectives when it was registered "are merely ancillary to, or incidental to, the other objects of the organisation." NGOs will be required to pay an annual registration fee.

The government statement on Sunday said some NGOs were "deviant and others dabble in politics ... This legislation should not come as a surprise ... to patent adversaries of government. It was long overdue". It added the bill was aimed at helping other NGOS to work without being pressured into being anti-government.

Brian Kagoro, chief executive of the Crisis in Zimbabwe Coalition, a group of pro-democracy NGOs, had previously told IRIN that the bill would hamper the ability of NGOs to "monitor the administration of development assistance and humanitarian aid, and to make sure it is not politicised to the benefit of any party, especially the ruling party".

Local human rights advocacy group ZimRights, which has been in existence for the past 12 years and receives overseas funding for its legal aid and human rights campaigns, said its activities would be curtailed. "According to Section 17 of the bill, local NGOs carrying out 'activities involving or including issues of governance', defined as human rights activities in the bill, will not be able to function," ZimRights national director Bidi Munyaradzi told IRIN.

"In terms of the bill, even church groups that have been vocal on human rights issues will be under government scrutiny, as it only excludes religious groups confined to religious work," he added.

In their analysis of the bill, Arnold Tsunga and Tafadzwa Mugabe of Zimbabwe Lawyers for Human Rights noted that the proposed legislation was "calculated at limiting the individual as well as the collective enjoyment of universally recognised rights and fundamental freedoms of expression, assembly and association of the citizens of Zimbabwe".

Kagoro added, "That there is an attempt [through] the bill to proscribe and severely limit the role of civil society speaks volumes of the extent to which they [government] intend to control the forthcoming elections", due in March 2005.

Meanwhile, the National Association of Non-Governmental Organisations in Zimbabwe is to discuss the bill at a public meeting in Harare on Friday.

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Pope John Msupa

You ask very good questions and I quote:

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Free exchange rates of currencies.....,

I liked this one, is this possible? Which country is using this one?

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South Africa, US, UK, Canada , all European Union members that are using the Euro, Scandinavian countries, Botswana, Australia, Japan and numerous other countries have free exchange rates of currencies. Now, the question which arises is: in what way do they differ from Zimbabwe? The answer to this question will come from none other than the monetary authorities in Zimbabwe as detailed in one of their authoritative monetary policy publications:

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1 EXCHANGE RATE MANAGEMENT OPTIONS.

(a) The Head of State and the Minister of Finance and Economic Development have both deplored the current state of the Zim Dollar exchange rate....

(b) Monetary Authorities (ie the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe) have looked at possible exchange rate management options as well as their immediate, medium and long-term implications on the economy arrive at what we believe is, an acceptable compromise forward.

NB:The options examined include the continuation with a FIXED EXCHANGE RATE that has prevailed in the country for the last 6 or so years. This option was considered inappropriate for the short, medium to long-term good of the country.

NB:The extreme apposite of this system, the FREE FLOAT SYSTEM, was also considered inadvisable to a thin market such as ours.

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Msupa, a few issues arise from the above quote from the Reserve Bank of Zim publication. Evidence of a head of state(Mugabe) interfering with a supposedly independent financial institution is visible to a naked eye. We are told that Zimbabwe currently uses a FIXED EXCHANGE RATE!!!! which even they themselves now agree that it is an inappropriate system. We further glean or learn that the long tried and tested FREE FLOAT RATE (free exchange rate in my post above) is also not acceptable ("inadvisable" to use their own words).

So there you have it baba Msupa. In Zimbabwe, the problem is this nonsensical policy of fixing the rate of Zim$ to other major currencies. This is the very source of all the financial woes of that country, add to that the political marasmas and kwarshiokored political decisions that Mugabe endlessly make!!!. The pegging of the Zim$ at a fixed exchange rate to the major currencies gives rise to what is referred to as arbitrage opportunities in the financial markets. It gives rise to "Abolisphatheleni" who are essential arbitrageurs (profit from mismatched currencies). An example will suffice in this respect. If the US dollar is pegged or fixed at US$1 to Zim$5 000 by the Reserve Bank of Zim, while in the free market (euphemistically black market)the US$ is exchanging hands at US$1 to Zim$10 000. A clever Postoli will quickly rush to the nearest bank, buy the US DOLLARS at the official exchange rate of Zim$5000. Mathematically the following arise:

Postoli spends Z$5 billion to aquire US$1 million at this ridiculous official exchange rate.

Upon receipt of the US$1 million he quickly rushes out of the bank with his shiny head and long Bin Laden-like beards and quickly sells the US$1 million which he bought for Zim$5 billion.
He sells this US$1 million at an exchange rate of US$1 to Z$10 000. Now if you multiply his US$1 million by Z$10 000, my Grade 7 maths says you get Zim$10 billion!!!!!. There you have it baba Msupa, a Postoli making an extra Z$5 billion within 10 minutes!!!!. He bought his USdollars at Zim$5 Billion, quickly rushed outside and sold them for Zim$10 Billion!!!!.