Gents

Whilst debate is raging on the political front, we need to focus also on other possible avenues that can lead to our economic empowerment and economic emancipation. Asifundeni kwezinye izizwe ezifana lathi ukuthi singenzani kwezomnotho. I think the Jews provide the best example. They got to the US and tightened their grip on the New York Stock Exchange. Today these people are the most influential in US policy making through their financial clout. In South Africa it is the same. In Zim think of the likes of Eric Bloch. Think of the former owners of G & D (the Shoe company).
In a nutshell, I have identified a couple of very practical ways that our people can venture into as a way of self-empowerment economically.

1)Investment in shares
A monthly purchase of shares in Zim blue chip companies at US$100 (56 Pounds) over a period of time by our people can result in us becoming majority shareholders in most of these strategic companies. For example, let's say Hunyani Holdings has issued 100 000 shares at Zim$1000 per share. That results in total share capital of Z$100 000 000. Now if we buy up to Z$75 000 000 of that total share capital, we become majority shareholders owning a staggering 75% of the company. We can do this on a number of companies that are listed on the Zim Stock Exchange. Let's say the total capitalisation (all listed shares) of the Zim Stock Exchange is Z$100 Billion, and we buy up to half of that figure, this means out of all economic and financial transactions that occur in Zim, we will be having a 50% share. I can tell you gentlemen at that level of shareholding we would have tightened our grip on the economy of the country.
The question which obviously arises is what are the other benefits of shareholding.

Benefits Of buying shares

* You literally become the owner of the company up to the level of your shareholding
*You can serve as a director in the company
*You have a say in the running of the company
*Gvt has to consult you on policy decisions
*You receive an annual (or biannual) earnings per share (eg if you have 10 000 shares, and the company declares Z$1000 per share, it translates to Z$10 million per year coming to your pockets)
*You also receive dividends per share, which could amount to say Z$5 million using the above example substituting Z$500 Z$1000.
*This is life time investment unless you decide to sell your shareholding.
*You can bequeath your investment to your children(ungabatshiyela ilifa)
*You receive annual financial statements of the company which detail all the transactions during the year.

How & where do I buy these shares?

Gents kindly go to the Zim Stock Exchange website on www.zse.co.zw
You can contact any registered stock broker to do the job for you(note they are all listed on the website)

Any other empowerment avenues?

Yes. You can also invest in real estate portfolios. This is basically buying a portfolio of assets (eg izindlu ezintathu) and renting them out.

Benefits of this?
*The price of your properties appreciates (increases above inflation)
*You derive a monthly rental fees from your tenents
*You become a part owner of your city or town.
*Its a life time investment (uze utshiyele abantwana bakho ilifa)

Ngizoyitshiya lapha lindaba bafowethu sihluze ingqondo.

May i point out that it is crucial that one needs to have a bank account KwaMthwakazi to be able to do these transactions to avoid this Gono induced forex scare.

Kengibuze. Ukuyafunana le kampani zabetshabi, siphonsela khona imali zethu kungcono na kulokubumba awethu?

Bayathatha imali zethu oHunyani labo baqhashise abakibo thina sithela imali kuphela. Angitsho ukuthi imbi imbono yakho, ngiyabuza nje.

Saduva

Hatshi mfowethu ukusebenzisa i Hunyani Holdings is just an example only. Maningi amakhampani a operater eMat'land.Afana labo ZimSun Hotels(Vic Falls Hotel, Elephant hills, Kingdom Hotel etc) agcwele e Victoria Falls. Khumbula Saduva ukuthi i Folosi ise Matebeleland. Abo Wankie Coaliery. Khonamanje i oil le gas have been discovered eLupane. Kufanele sibe ngabokuqala uku invester kuyo iproject leyi. Economic control is the way to go Saduva.

lobengula

ngivumelana nawe mfowethu. nxa singahlangana sibumbe isikhwama noma ikampani ezokwenza lokhu kuyobe kuyingqondo enhle. kumele sikhumbule madoda ukuthi esikhathini esinengi silokukhuluma izinto sibuye sihlehlele emuva singasaqubekeli phambili.

ayikho indlela engcono yokukhulula uMthwakazi ngaphandle kokuthi sibambe iqaza kwezomnotho elizweni.

isibonelo sami yikuthi nxa amadoda elesifiso, singatshaya imali umuntu ngamunye siyihlanganise sibone ukuthi siyihlanye kumakampani amikuhle njalo esizabalenzuzo khona. akukhethelekile ukuthi lenkampani ikuphi, ingaba kwaMthwakazi,ematshoneni, noma ejse, okusalayo yikuthi thina we control that company and dividends are payable to us.

akesizameni madoda, lokhu sihambela muva. we must by all means pool our resources together so that the investment we make will be big enough for us to have a say in the running of the business.

asiyekeleni ukukhuluma siqale ukwenza. nxa ekhona omunye olombono okuthi singayenza kanjani lenkampani ukhululekile ukuthi asicebise.

Bafowethu.

Lezi yizo indaba lapho engibizwa khona ngisukumele phezulu. Mina sengikhale zaze zoma ngibhala eNkundleni ngokuziphakamisa kwesizwe sakithi. Kuyabongeka nxa singayiqala le indaba.

Akubizweni umhlangano loba kuyini. Lokho okuvunyelwane ngumphakathi, lathi lisikhumbule ngoba sikude ngapha e USA.

Ngiyabonga.

Li Zwangendaba.

Lobengula,

Mina ngingomunye mfowethu ohambelana lezinto ozilobele lapha enkundleni.Inkinga yami yikuthi siyehluleka ukuziqoqa thina njenge sizwe senze okuqondileyo

Bengifisa ngoba lami angikho ekhaya ukuthi uluba kuliqiniso ukuthi usekhaya sifome i-company with the blesssings of a lawyer ozayikhokhela wena .Umsebenzi wale nkampani kube yiku-invetsa imali esiyifakayo thina kulezo ndawo ozibonayo njalo owaziyo ukuthi zingasithuthukisa.

Inkinga nje yikwethembana,kodwa mina ngiyathemba siyananzelela ukuthi loba lathi amaNdebele siyifuna imali ubusela lobu basempumalanga buyasiceza.Lokho kuyatshengisa ukuthi engxenye esingakuzama kungaphumelela.banengi abantu bakithi abafisa ukwenza exactly lokho okutshoyo kodwa liyazi umehluko phakathi kokufisa lokwenza.

Singayiqala njani li-company Lobengula?

Sthutha (labanye)

Ngiyabonga mfowethu ngamazwi akho akhuthazayo njalo ngibonga labanye.
If you read my post above very carefully, you will note that we do not at this stage need to form a company to spear head our economic empowerment. We can do so individually though purchasing shares at the stock exchange using existing brokers as i specified in my post. You just need to open a bank account in Zim and you can simply transfer relevant funds (say Z$1million) per month to your broker's account (your broker will open an account for you for this purpose within his brokerage).
Now you simply instruct him (eg. thru e-mail) to purchase shares in Anglo-American or Datlabs or TA Holdings etc, from your funds which you would have logded with him.
The bottom line is that if all of us purchase such shares in large numbers (eg we individually purchase shares in TA Holdings such that when we add up our shares we end up having a 60% ownership of the company at stack)
So like i said, we need to use existing brokers, who will buy shares on our behalf either directly in blue chip companies or through unit trusts.

Iam already using an existing broker for this purpose and the company is doing very well.
Remember this is the best time to buy shares when the prices are so low. When Mugabe goes and the economy stabilises, such shares will become unaffordable to many.
The next phase will be then to look at starting our own unit trust company to manage our massive shares in various companies. But for the time being rather let's tackle the first phase.
I have an existing broker at SAGIT (available at the ZSE website) who is doing very well for me. If interested I can post his (broker) details here for the benefit of Mthwakazians, he can give you guys very good advice and step by step procedures which are very easy (i have already detailed them any way).

bakithi

uqinisile lobengula, kungcono siqale individually ukuze sibone ukuthi kuhamba kanjani. the only problem is that individually we are unlikely to buy a controling interest in a company due to probably lack of resources.

but that can be overcome later if we decide to combine our interest and form a trust that will represent us.

asiyeni madoda

Gazilam

A quick one, tell me do you know Mr P Dube who is based in Maputo? He is a good friend of mine?

Lobengula

ngiyamazi. he's good friend of mine. any message?

Gazilam

Kindly tell him to participate in this forum , we need his expertise. Just tell him I said hie to him , we worked together at KPMG during our articles days.

Lobengula

I total agree with you on the ways amandebele can empower themselves and investing in shares being one of the best.

I think if we chose to empower ourselves through the stock exchange shares route we should start identify compinaies that are worth being investested in i.e. companies that are have potential and were we are assured the highest possible returns.Once we identify the companies lets 3 companies.We invest in those 3 only till such a time we feel we have invested enough in those 3.So that when we decide to form our trust our shares are all under one roof and not scatterd all over,hence making things easier.

Ngiyabonga lelithuba. Abantu abanjengaboLobengula bayisibusiso esilaso njengamandebele. iadvise lombono alawo could take us to new heights. what we could try to have is a forum that's dedicated kwezenotho, then we can advise each other on matters zefinance at all levels. thina esisekhaya we can also help announce amaopportunities esiyabe siwezwa ngapha even from the smallest businesses athengiswayo, njalonjalo. kasizameni.

What would happen if Shonas read this and rush in buying the shares before we do ?
Mind you ngo Thathekile laba bantu.
Khumbulani madoda ukuthi izinto zilunga ngomkhonto

Imbizo

You bring a very good point baba. What it then means is that YOU must not delay any further go now and buy those shares. Start building your portfolio of riches. Not only can you buy shares but you can also buy properties.
Gents, we can pull our cash resources together and invest in properties like houses or shopping malls. Who owns the Nkulumane Shopping Mall? Lets find out and if possible invest in that complex so that eventually we have a controlling interest.
We can do that also to similar strategic assets.

Football teams all over the world (eg Man United, Real Madrid, AC Milan) are now listed on stock exchanges. There is nothing that should stop us from approaching the Highlanders Board of Directors with a proposal to buy a significant stack in the club and have it run on business terms like all other clubs in the world. Kaiser Chiefs in South Africa is now part of Prime Media Group (a Listed company). Look at the professionalism associated with the club.

If we buy a controlling share in bosso, we ensure that it will remain for ever a team owned by and controlled by the Ndebeles. But if we sit back silokhu sizinwaya silandisa okungapheliyo, abeTshabi (othathekile) sizozwa kuthiwa sebethenge iBosso ngezigidi lezigi sisale sikahala izinyembezi bafowethu.
Asisukumeni ngobunengi. Click the mouse and go to the Zim Stock Exchange website and contact a broker immediately , and start investing without delay. OChiyangwa lizozwa kuthiwa sebe thenge iNkulumane SHOPPING Mall thina silokhu sibalisa okungapheliyo.

It has been said by Lobengula..let's act before it's too late because that's reality,oChiyangwa will by everything in our region while we are still dragging,then we will not say we are a free Mthwakazi.Lobengula, l give you all the respect because the above contribution is a big warning to us,it is already happening but we have to act now before it spills out of control,abetshabi are capitilizing in diferent business opportunities in the region.For instance in the tourisms sector,most of those safari lodges kwaBulawayo are under abetshabi,why MaNdebele?
let's act now before ama***** engakathengi ibosso!!
-------------------------------------
Sirumula..mafenya tsila.

Bafowethu
This is indeed a chalenge for us (ie NEE). Let's give each other a target, say by year end, we should all be having a significant shareholding in various strategic companies in Zim. Next year most of us should staart worrying about the performance of our shares in these companies.
Remember you can buy the shares at say Z$1000 per share now. A month later the same shares can be going for say Z$5000 per share. That is a direct appreciation of your shares in value. In other words you have scored a gain of Z$5000-Z$1000 =Z$4000 per share.If you hold say 10 000 shares, that amounts to a capital gain of $4000 x 10 000= $40 000 000.
But remember stock prices can also go the other way round, ie lose value eg buy them at $1000 and 6 month down the line they depreciate to $800 per share. However over time stock markets have been proved to be resilient and robust (ie tend to appreciate in value).
But your brokers will give you all the advice you need on a daily basis. They will send you a daily summary of what's happening in the markets and which shares to buy or sell etc etc.

Nanso ke indaba bafowethu asintshinsheni impondo zethu lezi odadewethu abathanda ukuthi singompondo kayintshintshwa ngoba sihlala siyifake emasokisini imali yethu. Let's make this year 2004, the year of our economic empowerment.

Abafowethu laba abayizikhulu njalo abangosozimali will testify how emabarassing it is ukuthi ubonakale uwedwa uhamba nge BMW X5 abangane bakho bekulandela emuva ngama Datsun 120y noma ama 404 Peugheot. Kuhle si develophe sonke ngobunengi hatshi ukuba yi drop in the ocean.

Bafowethu.

Ngiyalibonga lonke ikakhulu baba Lobhengula, ngoba nsuku zonke ngilokhu ngidobha kancane kancane kwezomnotho, (Economics) into ingingazange ngiyifunde esikolo. Ulungile ngoba uyasivusa isizwe se Nkosi.

Sengikhulume labafowethu engizalwa labo ekhaya, sesiyaqala ukuthenga ama Shares ku Stork ex.

Uyilwile, ubulele, sesiyidla.

Li Zwangendaba.

Gents

As a further addition to our economic empowerment, one area that we also need to focus on is education. Let's not get ourselves tied up in knots complaining about our marginalisation in the education front by virtue of the swarms of Shona locusts invading our schools , colleges and varsities in Mat'land.
Let's rise above all of this clap-trap directed at us by Mgodoyi and beat the system. There are independent Institutes and varsities where our people can enrol without any interference from Mgodoyi. The Association of Chartered Certified Accountants(ACCA) in the UK is one such a body. You study independently with that institute from anywhere in the world and when you qualify, you can practice as an auditor in Zimbabwe or work as a financial manager or financial director or accountant anywhere in the world. There is the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants in the UK which has the same priviledges as those afforded by the ACCA in that you can get into the accountancy profession at what ever level you like. You have the Institute of Chartered Secretaries & Administrators. You can do this any where in the world and you get what ever post you need in the financial world. All these bodies have branches all over the world. There is the Certified Financial Analyst programme which qualifies you to be an investment analyst or investment professional. You have the American Certified public Accountants programme. There is the Chartered accountancy programme available in all major countries. Gents the list is endless. Let's get our hands into the mud and start working. Basically some of us who are overseas can enrol our young brothers(your own brothers) who are based in Mgodoyi and pay for their fees which are usually very cheap from abroad ranging from 20 Pounds to 5O pounds the fees for some of these courses.

Boya benyathi!
Mpongo kaZingelwayo!
Mthiyane!

Limqotho lelo! Ukufunda kukaMthwakazi kungalekelela ekuthuthukiseni ukucabanga kwabaningi, kudedise nolaka oluhaqe abaningi abalobayo lapha enkundleni! Phela ma ungafundile, yonk' into kuwena is solved ngo-laka nodlame. Phela umqondo usuka ubemfushane!

AmaNgisi athi: "Character development is the sole, if not the main aim of education." Babuye njalo bathi : "Books are the most loyal of friends and the most patient of teachers".

Uyabona ke masingaqina kwezemfundo, nendlela esicabanga ngayo izothuthuka. Sizohlukana ne Village approach to politics and begin to see Mthwakazi in terms of the global dictates zamanje. Sizoba ne-confidence to face up to the Phd fellas on the debating table singenakungingiza. Otherwise ma uyisinxadi, uvele uzeyise wena bukhoma, before the other fella even despises you.

At the same time ma ufunda, uyakwazi ukuthola amaphephamvume okuhlala phesheya ungenakwesaba ukuboshwa ngamaphoyisa. Masihlukane nokugeza imizimba yezintothololo (akusho mina bakwethu, kwash' uMgodoyi on his 18th April speech).

Ngiyabonga.

uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa
Inxangiphilile.
KwelikaMthaniya.

Mtshede

Ngenhlonipho enkulu baba, ake usincede in a very candid and honest way in dealing with the following questions.

1) As a white Ndebele person, kindly tell us where do we as your tribesmen tend to miss the opportunities in general and the economic ones in particular.

2)In your observations in the past number of years, where do we as a people tend to do things wrongly (politically & economically)

3) Economically, how can the Ndebele folks, "get it right".

4) What is essentially different between our(blacks) approach to governance and that of our white colleagues (discount or ignore percived oppression or real oppression)

5) What lessons can you draw to our attention as a tribe that we might not be aware of?
6)Historically what have been our mistakes that we find ourselves steeped in this quagmire?

7) What could we have done better?
8) What could we have done in 1980 or prior to 1980?
9What then is the way forward both economically and politically?
10) These are very genuine questions Mtshede (Dr Robert Moffat's Ndebele name given to him by his friend King Mzilikazi in the 1870s)

11) Because you are a white Ndebele you are obviously sitting in a very good position to understand both sides of the coin(black & white).

12)Do you think the British played a role in ensuring that Mgodoyi wins the election in 1980?
13) Where did Nkomo go wrong from a white perspective?
14) Smith tried in vain to alert Nkomo to his oblivion prior to the election but Nkomo did not listen, had he listened to Smith maybe the Ndebele would be better off today?

Thanking you in advance Mtshede for your counsel on these issues that baffle me.

Lobengula sincere apologies to you for taking some time to respond to the pertinent and searching questions you have asked.

I am going to take some time to reply as fully and capably as I possibly can and thank you very much both for your patience and for the trust you have shown in me in addressing yourself to me here Mashobane.

1) As a white Ndebele person, kindly tell us where do we as your tribesmen tend to miss the opportunities in general and the economic ones in particular.

Unfortunately kaMashobane I believe the sad truth of the world today is that it remains a place where those of us who come from historically deprived oppressed and marginalised backgrounds have to play "catch up" against the heaviest odds and breaking through glass ceilings and all manner of other culturally and racially weighted obstacles.

Thus in answer to your question the best I can say is that for a black man to compete in a white world he has to be not just as good as the next man but better; and for an Ndebele man to compete in a country like Zimbabwe then the position is even less advantageous and the effort required twice as great.

But it can be done.

The likes of Masiyiwa show what can be done with self-belief and determination and character.

Masiyiwa's first investment came as you know from a white man who believed in him.

I wonder if masiyiwa knows what a khiwa is?

Maybe I should write to ask him.


2)In your observations in the past number of years, where do we as a people tend to do things wrongly (politically & economically)

I reiterate it is very difficult for Ndebeles to operate in a rather hostile political world and economic marketplace.

I believe we need unity and coordination as for example Jewish people are often praised for exhibiting solidarity and a commitment to the betterment of theirkith and kin, why cannot the same not be said of Ndebeles?

Pansi na uMona!

Respect success!

Emulate the successful!

Be open to your friends and don't be suspicious of people who offer good things!

(These are all things kaMashobane that you know far better than I....)


3) Economically, how can the Ndebele folks, "get it right".

Firstly to quote Tony Blur, "education education education".

Secondly to paraphrase Inkundla's wise man Bhekuzulu Khumalo, "work hard, work honestly, don't try to take short cuts through unethical grasslands where snakes abound!"

4) What is essentially different between our(blacks) approach to governance and that of our white colleagues (discount or ignore percived oppression or real oppression)

Hmmmm....I like to think that my own fierce opposition to tyrrany has been deeply influenced by Ndebele pride and Ndebele notions of dignity and equality.

I have nothing to teach Ndebeles about opposition to tyrrany: the reverse is the case!

5) What lessons can you draw to our attention as a tribe that we might not be aware of?

We need to be supportive to each other and yet learn from the wider world....

6)Historically what have been our mistakes that we find ourselves steeped in this quagmire?

The "mistake" of Ndebeles is perhaps that like Zulus they were too successful in resisitng colonilaism, it is often said. So for eg it is Xhosa (and especially Fengu) and Shona people who embraced western style education whereas prouder people remained aloof and now have to catch up!

7) What could we have done better?

Nothing.

Ndebeles have survived. This puts them at the head of the game!

8) What could we have done in 1980 or prior to 1980?

A difficult question. Perhpas we can return to this one in a separate thread?

9What then is the way forward both economically and politically?

I think we need to understand that economic progress is clearly linked to political emancipation in a host of ways. Government is the major economic determinant in Africa and we need a Government that is responsive to our agenda for the uplifment of Mthwakazians.

10) These are very genuine questions Mtshede (Dr Robert Moffat's Ndebele name given to him by his friend King Mzilikazi in the 1870s)

I am honoured that you asked these questions but regretful that I do not think I do them justice in reply.

11) Because you are a white Ndebele you are obviously sitting in a very good position to understand both sides of the coin(black & white).

The one thing I know is that a person is a person and a man is a man whatever his skin colour.

I never try to dislike people on account of skin colour.

I often dislike people on account of bad character.

I believe at its highest and best ubuNdeble is synonymous with decency, dignity, bravery, stoicism, honesty.

This is what I believe, what I hope to be true, and what i know to be true.


12)Do you think the British played a role in ensuring that Mgodoyi wins the election in 1980?

KaMashobane my understanding is that the British understood well before the 1980 election that Mugabe would win convincingly due to the saturation of Mashonaland and other areas by ZANLA with its pungwe style of violent politicking.

They did nothing to alert Dr Nkomo or the white community of this and indeed they ignored Dr Nkomo's attempts to call for peaceful free and fair elections.

They climbned into bed with Satan.

13) Where did Nkomo go wrong from a white perspective?

As you know Son of the Son of Mashobane Dr Nkomo was in secret talks with Smith prior to 1980. These talks were abruptly terminated with the Viscount incidents and subsequent retaliation. It is tragically true that the remanants of the Rhodesian airforce were later employed against ZIPRA elements post 1980 elections.


14) Smith tried in vain to alert Nkomo to his oblivion prior to the election but Nkomo did not listen, had he listened to Smith maybe the Ndebele would be better off today?

You and I know Dr Nkomo believed in himself as Father Zimbabwe. He did not want to believe his service would be discounted on ethnic grounds. Could things have gone differently had he and Smith come to terms? I wonder and would be interested in your response.

Thanking you in advance Mtshede for your counsel on these issues that baffle me.

I know you too well to believe you are baffled mfowethu.

Suffice to say I answer your questions to the best of my ability and gladly because I know I am not corresponding with a fool but a man who respects himself and so accords others due respect.

Not every Ndebele accords to your high standards and so your example shines to my tired eyes all the brighter.

You look for wisdom like a wise man.

Others foolishly parade the streets at midday holding candles.

I doubt you know what a khiwa is.

Ngiyabonga mfowethu.

Your kindness and affirmation goes a long way.

Ungadinwa lakusasa.

Lobengula,

Thank you very much for puting up such insight in terms of economic empowerment. I am disappointed though that you don't seem to want to share these opportunities with others but prefer undoda zibonele, kumbe sithi akunkwali yaphandela enye. Or do you lack confidence kunzalo kaMthwakazi ukuthi ingakubonisa izibunu zenyoka njengalokhu okwalapha eZimba. The idea is to make a serous economic impact, that makes you stand counted.

Mina bengibona kanje:

Lina elingaphetsheya, form a global company which you invest in, hire professional people to then do a targeted investment in the country on those areas that will make a difference, now or in the future. You need not only invest in the country but in the region or even abroad. This company can be an offshore company that can operate through a locally registered company, uyazi imthetho yaleli lizwe are designed to exclude certain people, but that will be the work of professionals to manuvre.

Besides, most of these companies are now run ngabetshabi, abontshontshi nje balomuntu phansi. It may be counted as heroism in thier relms to bring such companies down, therefore you need to put enough investment to control and effectively direct what happens not only inside but the outside environment. That is why I do not agree with Hlathi81 uma esithi put your shares in 3 companies, you may need a wide portfolio that the destructive entreprenuers of the east can not easily target. If they do bayabe bayixhophile, you fight for your economic survival with all your might sibone iqhawe impela. But you can only do this if you are in control.

True to some contributions above, abetshabi have bought a lot of businesses in M'tland, but in most case it was just to effectively bring them down for good, transfer the assets to Harare or some such places far away to benefit anyone koMthwakazi. You may underestimate the threat to destroy Mthwakazi economically but open your eyes wide and read between the lines, don't listen to the speech but to its echoes you will know that abetshabi, are not operating without a plan.

Picture This:

bosso wins the league in four consecutive years and its not important news at ZBC, The Herald,Chronicle and disappontingly the then Daily news. All these are run by abetshabi. When they were beaten by Experance there was Jubilation eharare, all papers had it in bold "why should they dwarf Dhembare"

PSL desides to drop 5 teams from the league, why? There were more teams from the south than in the north hence bosso enjoyed its home crowd in at least five away encounters.

Nanko lakho okuyiSporting Lions, enticing our star players in a bid to weaken bosso, which unfortunately they acheived. Even uKapini Harareans were enticing him not to harare but off bosso.

KwaMzilikazi, there was somthing like a committee that looked at things and strategised, I will give you the most trivial yet most effective example; Language. This committee made sure those who joined Mthwakazi became Mthwakazi, oMkatla baba ngoMkandla, oMtlokwa, baba ngoMdlongwa, oShoko baba NgoNcube, oHungwe baba ngoNyoni. NgamaNdebele lawa avela ePitoli labakwa Mambo. Mhlaumbe we need to start something like this, while abetshabi are bombarding us with new local products with shona names we should just give the product a ndebele name and call it by that name kwaMthwakazi, advertise if we have to.

Sengi phambuke kancane ku economic empowerment, ngiyaxolisa.

Bagiya ngokumithisa odadewethu bathi balwi impi.

Bakithi ngiyambonga kakhulu uLobengula ngolwazi lwakhe asichathekela lona lapha. Yiyo impuncuko le Mthwakazi ukungavaleli ulwazi ekhwapheni. Sesizakwenza njalo Lobengula.Sicela kodwa ukuba sicetshiswa ukuthi yiwaphi ama kampani esingaphosela amasenti ethu kuwo. Abanye asikwazi lokubala lawo maphepha ama shares lesilungu sakhona siyaseqa. Mina angazi fokolo ngazi kuphela ukuthi ngifisa ukunotha.

Lobengula I would prefer not to identify the xenophobic likes of Shitishiti as the xenophobic lowest common denominators who under the guise of pride demean the struggle of those who believe in the concept of Mthwakazi as a place where minorities and a majority try to engage and articulate a common program of development and advancement.

I would prefer not to call Shitishit a dog.

But I have been bitten by fleas and I must scratch the itch.

now that gonorea gono has unveile new international money wiring methods of sendind your hard earned hard currency home, is this not an opportunity to come into the main stream of economic activity and carve yourselves niches in the real estate and the equity market.you guys in diaspora you are our salvation, l urge you to get a foothold on the economic front, let us show the shonas its not only them with the sole preserve to have postal addresses in burnside, gunhill , mt pleasnt , msthemhlophe , hiilside and the famous borrowdale brook.lt really makes me feel empty to note that most of the trucks being sent by zimbos in diaspora mostly are owned by guys from bambazonke. it is the same guys who come and clich contracts from bulawayo city council for haulage.this means the money we pay to BCC as rates ends up developing harare becoz the companies contrcted by BCC expatriate their money to harare. this is very sad.yes it might be a continuation of the grand plan, but l totally apportion the blame to our mthwakazi brotheren in diaspora fot not being proactive on the economic front.stop pointing fingers for once and be seen to be doing something to improve our lot.its a shame that opasi they are dominatinjg the commuter taxis in bulawayo. lathi asiwakhipheni ama £2500,00 sithenge amakhanda ezimota, sithene amakhumbi from japan and dubai.as ndebeles bring your brainy heads together in diaspora and start petroleum importing consortium.most of the ndebele owned petrol stations are having operational difficulties because they are the last to get fuel from the privatley owned importing consortiums.abasegoli mayuyu madoda yekelani ukube lokhu lithumeza izigubhu ezingela lutho.lam not criticising you my fellow brothers , what lam,saying is let us open our eyes and see what is happening in zimbabwe. a case in point is one specialist doctor of ndebele origin who joined a predominatly shona pil consortium in uk. upon eunquiring from him as to why he was eating in the same platee with dogs. he was at pains to explain that he did try a number of times to encourage mthwakazians in diaspora to invest in this wortwhile investment, but according to him mthwakazians are too risky evasive they want to walk the down trodden investment path.he even mentioned names.some shonas l know in uk go around picking second hand truck tyres from dunp yard which they then retread in bulawayo making a hefty killing.lastly l want to thank the diaspora mthwakazians who have continued providing food on the table to their extended families, without you gentleman given the high rate of unemployment starvation woould have perished many a families.

ININA

Ahlabe ephukela dadewethu. kanti njalo abadala bathi kalivikwa. when it comes to business thinking we are desperate losers. opasi will dominate us home and away okweGrand plan kwedlula now we are marginalising ourselves. kwakhulunywa ngesupporters committe yeBosso ingaphi? give us to talk ngobukhosi lobuNguni lapho uyabufikemhlolweni but siyizikhothamathe zamashona. icommitte zedynamos sezimi yikho okuphuma amaqembu amabhizimusi abaliswa linina. even lefederalism leyo ekhulunywayo angithi ngamadoda ukuyengana nxa ungelamali uzathi weh! kusabele bani? well amadoda aseGoli azamile ikakhulu kithi esikhalangeni eTjolotjo eTjepfunye kuManzamnyama laphayana sifundile sakhula okwamanje isiphelile iGoli. thina esisemazweni we have failed well khuluma ngamaphathi lobumnandi iNdebele kulapho elikhona.

Mtshede,

This forum is to build for the future, not destroy. If you don't like what I said, attack the idea, hashi ukungithuka.

"Ukubonisa izibunu zenyoka" is a like taking someone to the cleaners, if you did not understand the metaphor, ask! If you like abetshabi so much, I'm sorry, you can go your way angikulandeli. I will not denigrate myself by being drawn into an insulting match.

This is the summary of what I said for your benefit.

1. Share with Mthwakazi in your ivestments not only the idea but practice it. (Do you feel less Mthwakazian because you have pink bums?)

2. Target your investment in order to direct and retain control.

3. Abetshabi have a working plan to destroy Mthwakazi economically and otherwise, if not, they have unity of purpose against Mthwakazi.

4. We have to formulate our own counter measures against this.

Whats xenophobic about that? I gave an example of historic fact with regards to products, I didn't suggest that you should change your identity documents.

I have taken some time to try to respond to your comments in the hope that my embarrassment at my failure to understand your usage and my inability to refrain from personal invective would abate.

Unfortunately my embarrassment has intensified instead.

No judgement matters more than one's self judgement and I believe I have let myself down quite badly.

I suspect from the dignified tenor of your comments you will be the type of person who can forgive my ignorance and unjustified rudeness.

But I am sentencing myself to a vow of silence for the moment.

I am ready to die of shame but would prefer to live as there is work to be done in our common cause and despite my manifest failings I have to do what I can.

My sincere regrets.

l salute your mature stance wakwa mtshede

Inina

Your contribution is noted and well appreciated by us as Mthwakazians, particularly those of us who are passionate about Ndebele Economic Empowerment(NEE). In December 2003, I had a chance to drive around most rural areas in Tsholotsho and Plumtree, let me tell Mthwakazians that the surbuban houses that I saw in those regions built and financed by Mthwakazians in South Africa were an eye opener. Virtually everyvillage boasts a number of expensive properties (you might think you are somewhere in Sandton or Burnside). Now, the guys behind this development are the waiters, taxi operators , security guards , garden workers etc etc. We must remember that the business of transportation is firmly in Mthwakazian hands (particularly SA-Zim routes). Let us build on such successful models and replicate them across our regions in Mat'land.
By the way the race is on for acquisition of shares and equities in listed companies. We have set the guidelines above and hopefully every Mthwakazian is working tirelessly on that.

Mthede

Let me take this opportunity to thank you for your response to my questions above. Not only did you answer them professionally but you did so very honestly and independently. Of particular appreciation is the point you raised about our failure to adpt to change more-so on the education front due to our proud nature.

Let me further point out that Hitshi-hitshi did not say anything whatsoever that was insulting or demeaning or disrespectiful to your good person or to your contribution. No, not at all. He merely responded to MY contribution on economic empowerment and enuciated as he has reiterated above following your unhappiness. Judging by his (HH) obvious intelligence, i think he will readily forgive you for your sins. Mr HH must also bear in mind that Mtshede is a white Ndebele from Mthwakazi hence it is possible that sometimes he misunderstands innocent pronouncements.

Wena Lobengula ukhuluma into elenqondo, uyazi ucabanga njengami, I have always advised people on economic empowerment, just like you said. There is no need to always cry and say we are being oppressed, oppressed by who?. We are oppresing ourselves by being lazy and non productive. Umsebenzi yikuthethis amachona kuphela. What is the benefit of that, instead of working with them and empower ourselves.

I will tell you something, I have worked with a number of them and I have reaped more than they have, why coz I am strategic in my dealing with them. I am venturing into very serious projects, for the benefit of Uzulu and Mthwakazi. I would like to second the idea of buying a lot of these shares. Someone must drive this portfolio now and now not tomorrow. Problem Umtwakazi uthanda ukukhuluma kuphela, lokunata is kadi lokube abe eboaster ukuthi use America, America my foot. If one is in America let them make a difference where they come from, look at Israel, its because of Jews in America. Less mobilise, meet at a central place and form working things. As you know money is not a problem, the problem is to implement the ideas in our minds.

Lobengula I would like to thank you for the kind way you received any sensible things I said and charitably and kindly mediated the foolish thing I said.

May I amplify your explanation of my misunderstanding the comments of Mr Hitshi Hitshi by pointing out that I am not just a white person from Mthwakazi but quite often a STUPID white person from Mthwakazi.

I know stupidity cannot be cured but I hope discourtesy can be forgiven.

And again I would like to apologize.

Mtshede,

Angizange ngikudel' amathambo mfowethu. Libambe lingatshoni we have to succeed in this.

Mgongodo,

Quite honestly, I am thankful that you have managed to take advantage of your opputunities to your benefit, but to use them to deride uMthwakazi for the ills he has suffered as stupidity on their part, I do not agree.

When the farm resettlement was done late 1998, some of those who got them had to approach the authorities in the night to be given those farms thina silayinile lamaform. By the time we went to check the places the boys on the ground bavele basitshela ukuthi ngapho sokugcwele ama "chefu". Would you have had the access to Kangai in the night? You might have ended in custody.

Lets be strategic about everything, we know we are dealing with crookes by heredity. One of Mthwakazi's main weakness is self gratification "ukuziqhaja" When you have acheived something, instead of helping your kinsfolk usuhamba uziqqhenya ngakho, ungancedisi muntu.

Full respect mfowethu.

I won't let myself down again.

And I won't let you down again.

Majaha nabo dade

I have received numerous calls and e-mails from members of this forum on the issue detailed in my posts above relating to the acquistion of shares or stocks in Zim companies by us as Mthwakazians.

Those who want to buy shares can kindly follow the following procedures:

For those who want to buy these shares using ZiM$,
1)Open a bank account with a Zim based bank
(can use an existing family bank account)
2)Deposit your funds in that account
3)Use your Zim home address
4)Through your stock broker, you can then start picking or choosing shares to buy into your portfolio, transferring the funds from your Zim bank account into your brokers account who then uses the funds to pay for the shares on your behalf.
5) Remember your broker will give you full advice on which shares to buy and which ones to sell based on daily analysis and tracking of share performances.
6)For any shares or stocks purchased, a share ownership certificate must be issued and delivered to your home address proclaming your title to the shares , the number of shares you now own in the relevant companies.

Those who want to buy shares directly in foreign currency can also do so. You send your funds directly to your broker into a Zimbabwe Stock Exchange account called Foreign Denominated Account. The broker then utilises your funds from that account to buy shares for you. The advantage of this is that your earnings per share, dividends or share premium profits can then be repatriated back to you in Foreign currency, say in Pound Sterling, or can be deposited for you in your Zim Aaccount. For deatails regarding this scheme kindly refer to Mike Anderson of SAGIT Stock Brokers (Pty) Ltd on sagit@sagit.co.zw Telephone 02634 73 5491. I have made it clear to him that we are an Mthwakazian lot and we need to deal with some one of Ndebele extraction in case he is not there, to which he gladly said his executive director Mr Alfred Mthimkhulu from Byo will be assigned the job of explaining some of these issues in plain simple Ndebele to amajaha lezintombi zakithi.

Nanso ke indaba bafowethu phakamisa ucingo lwakho ngokuphangisa lawe uqale uku invester and build your own portfolio. Now you become the part owner of any company in which you buy shares. You become a shareholder. You get invited to the Annual General Meeting. You begin to choose who becomes the directors of the company. Because the key management of the company eg CEO or MD are elected by the directors, you therefore indirectly select the management because the directors are elected by YOU. You choose who audits the company. You approve where new branches should be opened. What a way of gaining control and influence in companies bafowethu. You can imagine if Mabila holds 12% of Wankie Coaliery Ltd and I hold 15%, Dokotela holds 5% , Cde Potshoza holds say 20%, between our selves we have a stake in that company of 52%. That is a majority ownership of the company and in terms of voting which is determened by YOUR shareholding we literally dictate the policy direction of the company.
Zamani majaha amadala. Asivukeni emaqandeni. Phakamisa ucingo uthinte u Mthimkhulu noma u Mike Anderson ngokutshetsha.

Two questions.

Can an entity or another company own shares in another? Is this feasible with overseas based companies wanting to invest in Zimbabwe?

By broker, do you mean an agency such as Privatisation Agency Zimbabwe? If not why don't the economists like yourself and Mtnongenakudla, and others like Gazi put your heads together and form a Mthwakazian biased agency to help with issues of this nature. Even if it's not an agency of this nature, a Mthwakazi Accountant entity will do. I have always said that we should focus our attention to forming institutions of our own, based on various skills and knowledge we have acquired.

Mjakajaka

No, by a stock broker I mean a private company like SAGIT (Pty) Ltd, registered as a broker with the relevant Stock Exchange, whose function is to sell and buy shares on behalf of persons, companies or other juristic persons (eg trusts, close corporations) in a stock exchange. The privatisation Agency you refer to above unfortunately is not a registered stock broker. it is not registered with the Zim STock exchange as a broker. it is just an arm of the government to facilitate privatisation, which has failed to materialise for all these years anyway.

Yes indeed a company can own shares in another company and become a holding company if possible. Remember in corporate law, there is no distinction between a company and a natural person. They are both persons in law. A company is termed a justic person or a legal persona while a peron is regarded as a natural person. They both have rights and obligations and can sue or be sued in their own right. Where one company owns shares in another company, depending on the degree of shareholding, the relationship is what is refered to as a holding company-subsidiary relationship (eg parent child-relationship). If we as Mthwakazians form our own company to that effect, yes indeed it will be a worth and viable venture or vehicle where we all use it as an investment avenue. Good point baba Mjakajaka. It shows maturity. Let us have consensus on such issues and move forward gents instead of baptising each other with fire daily.

Question: Is the economic state of the country now viable for investment? You know its quite difficult to run business in a higgh inflationary environment, are there any reflections showing stability of our money and what is the buying strength of the people on the ground?
Should we invest externally and wait until the country's economic climate has stabilised, then we can then ship our businesses to mgaxaland?

I'm just looking at a generic view and not specifically on a certain sector. Which sectors seem to be viable for investment?

Eze mali angizazi!

Njengomuntu ongelalwazi leze mali lama shares, this has been an eye-opener for me. Ngithanda ukubona abafakake imibono yabo emthanjeni wezomkhonomi to empower abakithi.

Ekufundeni impendulo ka Mnali uMtshede ngithole an area engifisa layo kukhulunywe ngayo as part of economic empowerment. UMnali ucele enkulumeni ka Tony Blair esithi, "education, education, education." Ngiyawabona amaso okusiza izikolo zakithi. Phambili ngawo. Kungabi yimali kuphela, kodwa asikhuthazeni onhlokozikolo zakithi to utilise the expertise that umntwakazi alayo. Umzekelo: Ngesinye isikhathi uLobengula angadlula esikolo iTsholotsho High akhulume nge buying zama shares and the stock exchange. UMthwakazi is blessed with i personnel in diverse fields, let's utilise that expertise and donate ama free times ethu to empower our people.

Dokotela

There is a golden rule in investment finance which says "buy low , sell high". What it means is that because businesses are cheap to acquire now, then you must go ahead and acquire them urgently. When the situation turns around, you can resell the business at a very high profit. Equally, the shares are very cheap (alele ngophondo) at the Zim Stock Exchange. If you buy the shares now and hold on to them during these bear (distressed) market conditions, you are likely to reap handsome profits when you eventually sell them during a bullish (not to be confused with bullshit) market, ie robust and roaring market.

A typical example is a person who acquired (bought) a house in Burnside in 2001 for Z$2 million. Now this same house can be sold for Z$300 million!!!. If some one decided to keep his Z$2 million locked up in a bank account, that amount would have grown to only Z$40 million assuming an interest rate of 500% annually. Now note the difference between investments in real estates (property) and just putting money in a bank account or under the mattress. The difference is a massive Z$300 million minus Z$40 million = Z$260 million super profit!!!.

The same principle applies to shares, if you acquire them at , say Z$5 million now, three years down the line you could sell the same shares at possibly Z$200 million. Now contrast that with money locked up in a bank account at CABS or Zimbank. There you will be lucky if you get Z$10 million after 3 years.
The example I have used here is very very very practical as those who acquired properties in 2001 could testify. They bought houses at a song , now these houses are going for 100ds of millions of Z$s. Shares have an advantage in that they are pepertual (you can own them for ever), unless if you decide to sell them. During the period that you own them, you get annual earnings per share plus dividends per share.

Nkosi!
Ngiyakuzwa sibili njalo ngivumelana lawe. Ukusa imali ebhanga loba ukuthenga i insurance kwelika Mgax ngalezinsuku, yikuzembela igodi uphila. Engicela ungisize ngakho nanku; how much of the high rate of return on property investment is REAL? Ungathengisa i Burnside yakho oyibethileyo ngayo leyo 200 million, ngapha usuthenga isinkwa nge 1 million, kusizani in a hyperinflationery environment yakwelika Mgax! Sesithiyiwe phela lapha Nkosi!

Nkosi,

Injabulo kuwe mfowethu. Ngiyathokoza ngokuchasisa kwakho. It really means a lot to me.

What you are saying about property investment makes clear sense. Where i need some clarity is on the value of the items after an inflationary effect.

Are you saying that when i sell my shares after 3 years i will be able to buy what i could not buy 3 years ago? If the growth in value of shares is proportional to inflation, are we not merely talking about figures yet the value remains the same? If this is true, would it be worth it to invest there now?

Mabs


Uthi wena:

quote:

---

Engicela ungisize ngakho nanku; how much of the high rate of return on property investment is REAL? Ungathengisa i Burnside yakho oyibethileyo ngayo leyo 300 million, ngapha usuthenga isinkwa nge 1 million, kusizani in a hyperinflationery environment yakwelika Mgax! Sesithiyiwe phela lapha Nkosi!

---

Contrary to your assumption above, the price of bread is currently approximately Z$1000 (equivalent to 1Rand or equal to US 15 cents). Now mathematically, if you sell your Burnside house at Z$300million, that translates to South African Rands R300 000 (ie US$50 000). So the investment is REAL and tangible.

Nkosi!
Kanje lingabantu besamu lina mina ziyalala ungaletha inombolo. Granted,my example was an exhaggerated and a poor one, but kwelami ikhanda i hyperinflation somehow distorts what we see as those high rates of return in numerical terms. Lnxa ngiwaphethe lawo ma million aphelela elimini njenge siwiji!

Ndlovukazi (or Nkosazana Zuma? nk nk nk)

Mabs, your question is very relevant and good. Your concerns about hyperinflation are indeed valid. The fact of the matter is this that hyperinflation erodes the value of your assets(cash) rendering them useless in the long run. Now the question is What can you do to protect your assets against hyperinflation?. Granted, hyperinflation is a financial risk hence it must be managed.
You can effectively manage hyperinflanery risk through HEDGING. The question which arises is: What is hedging? Hedging is nothing more than your very own favourite expression "uthango" (ungeqi uthango!!!). You have identified a specific Risk>>>>>Hyperinflation, now you want to safeguard your assets against it, hence you must build a hedge. If the hyperinflation is hovering around 500%, it means you money will lose value by up to 500% over a period of time. Now, to protect your asset (cash) you must enter into another transaction that will result in gains or yields of say, 500%, hence your position will remain the same , ie you lost 500% through hyperinflation, and you gained 500% through hedging strategies by entering into other transactions that offset your losses. If you hedge and protect your position and go on to reap more and superior profits, you would have done very well for your portfolio.

To use a silly example in illustrating hedging, Themba wants to go to bed with Sihle who is HIV+. The risk for Themba is contracting the dreaded HIV virus. To protect himself then he must hedge by wearing a CONDOM. If on the other hand Sihle is not HIV+ and Themba wants to take a bit of more risk, he can go for big returns (more pleasure) and hedging by what Dokotela will call "WITHDRAWAL" method which carries a high risk of pregnancy. So just like investment, more risk , more returns, less risk, less returns. Obviously the pleasure derived from a condom is less than what one gets via WITHDRAWAL. But please do not ask me whether on both occasions Themba will come right or not. The question of whether or not Sihle derives any value or returns in this whole activity is also beyond my scope(maybe you can tackle that one Mabs).

Dokotela

Uthi wena:

quote:

---

Are you saying that when i sell my shares after 3 years i will be able to buy what i could not buy 3 years ago? If the growth in value of shares is proportional to inflation, are we not merely talking about figures yet the value remains the same? If this is true, would it be worth it to invest there now?

---

Again your question is very good and needs to be answered by emplying a bit of finacial mathematics. To begin with let me state that inflation has a tendency to increase arithmetically (1,2,3,etc) whereas investment returns can increase geometrically (1,7,14,28 etc).
Dok, let us say you have Z$2 million now. Inflation is 600%. Interest rates offered by banks are 600%.
Now , if you bank your money at Zimbank for 1 year you will get exactly Z$14 million at the end of the year. Because inflation is equal to interest rates therefore your position has not changed, in other words if you could have bought a house for Z$2 million at beginning of year, the same house will now cost you Z$14 million at year end.
On the other hand,if you took your Z$2 million, and invested in shares (stocks) at year end , the same shares can be sold for Z$200 million. Your profit (real returns) will be Z$200 million -Z$14 million which equals Z$186 million !!!.

A typical example of the evils of inflation is illustrated below baba Dokotela.

Umfowethu uNdabezinhle was charged Z$300 000, in lobola when the rate of the Rand to the Z$1 was 1Rand to Z$30. That translated to about 10 000 Rand that he was supposed to pay. We accepted the charge on his behalf and left. When we came back to pay the lobola a year later, the rate was 1Rand to Z$1000 !!!. Translating the lobola from Z$ to Rands we discovered that we were just going to pay R300 !!!. Remember you cant charge interest on lobola neither can you alter them because of the new scenario. We felt emabarrassed and gave them R1000 which at least translates to a million Zim$. So majaha lobolanini ngokuphangisa otherwise lizadla mahala.

Nkosi!

Hk hk hk uzakutshaya uZuma. Angithi nguwe oseduze khonangapho!

Hayi sengizwisisile. Kuyabongeka ukuchasisa kwakho okucacileyo. Yikho sibanengi abanye bephethe ezemali, abanye ezempi, abanye ezempilo labanye ezokulima.

Eka Themba le ngisayitaditsha. U Themba can take the risk lo Sihle o HIV-ve, go for it without a condom. Uzakubuyelwe yebo ye yinjabulo, leyo high rate of return. Kodwa phela ayiyindawo injabulo leyo. Mina benginakana ama returns alomango?

Mabs,

Yes indeed, ama returns kaThemba alomango, phela kufanele ukhumbule ukuthi uThemba ama returns akhe la angawenza kanenginengi okuphindwe kanengi elokhu esehlukana lomhluzi (to steal Dok's favourite word). So they are not a once-off event, it could be a life-long type of activity well into old age provided uSihle akeqi uthango of course which now calls for HEDGING.

Nkosi!
Sengiyibambile sibili le eye hedging! Ngize ngakhumbula ingotsha yeMzilikazi ezikweyeni hk hk!

Bafowethu.

I must admit ukuthi Lobhengula ulesineke. You take yor time on explaining these Economic terms and expressions ngesintu. Ungadinwa.

What is more profitable, to keep my Zim$ in the bank or buy inkomo, or buy immovable properties?

What makes better economic planning?

Li Zwangendaba.

Zwangandaba

Khumbula ukuthi a house in Burnside or Hillside or Cowdry Park is "immovable property". Inkomo is also a fixed asset just like a house. Think of it, a motor vehicle is an asset just like a house or cattle. So investment in cattle is very very very advisable in these times of hyperinflation.The question which obviously arises is: what returns do you get from cattle? Remember baba Zwangendaba your five wives will not have to worry about oMasawa any more. You get fresh milk daily by milking the cows. You use them to plough the land and harvest crops. You will also use them to pay your huge lobola bill for your five wives. Not only that, remember cattle are traditionally a measure of how rich a man is. Chances are that if you have a huge number of them (buying them with US$), you might be tempted to add another young wife to your current pack of five. Do not smile baba Zwangendaba !!!. This will be a welcome addition since she will provide the necessary back up to the current ones who are probably tired by now. Remember cattle also provide meat>>source of food for your supposedly numerous kids baba Zwangendaba. Banking your money or putting it under a mattress is suicidal at its worst. At the end of the day you can sell the said cattle at a huge profit as well. The cows will also give birth and multiply your current herd. So mina ngithi phambili le investment in cattle !!!!.

Lobs.

Ngiyabonga mfowethu, muhle umsebenzi wakho. Lami isiphofu emalini ngenelisile ukuzwisiza. Uyabona kee, bathi ukwanda kwaliwa ngumgabe.

Ngiza phanga ngivele, ukwenzela ukuthi, bahle basitshele imali efunekayo, nginga khokhi kuze kuphele iminyaka emihlanu, ngikhokhe imali yamalobolo isilingana lesinkwa esisodwa. Ngiyabonga mfowethu.

Bakwethu, kengibuze. Kwezenotho lezi, how feasible is a Ndebele media company? By media ngitsho one that would go beyond the traditionals, i.e newspapers, magazines isiya ku TV channels, radio stations.

Abetshabi, noma bangake bakuvume lokhu abanini bayo, balawo umsakazo we SW Radio, Bawubumbe bangaphandle kwe lizwe.

Umsakazo singawubumba na? kanjani?

Abathi uMgabe uzabanika amandla kwezamabusimusi hambani liyo kwakha koZvimba.

Ye abahambe ko zwimba. Abaloyi balo muntu phansi khonale, uhle ucitshe engakukhomba ngomunwe.

Manje senze njani bakwethu njengoba singathumela imali emgaxaland, ifika isiyi mgaxa dola? Sesiya sebenzela amazambane. Yonke imizamo isiyi ze.

Angila cebo, ncedani!

Bandla,

Kuyabongeka ukubona "ABANTU" befundisana ngemali langokungezela inotho. Okwamanje sibeke izikhali phansi (Thanks to Umqhabuko), the only way we can pick up and fight again is by strategically positioning ourselves in these conglomerates that amahatshu are giving to their kin.
There are 3 things that I would urge each and every Ndebele living at home or in the diaspora to accumulate: Money, Education and Money & Education. Because it is with these arms that we will win our nation back from abantu bokuza.

ngiyabeka phansi.

Lobengula - It seems that one can never send you a private message. Could you check with the webmaster please if they could add that icon for you? Can I kindly request you to send me a private message as soon as you can to disucss printing and other issues? Ngiyabonga. Uzangixolela njengoba ngikholwa ukuthi uyinkosi yami kodwa akwenzakali ukuthi obuswayo "athume inkosi yakhe". Ungakhohlwa ukuthi inkosi yethu bekungu Lobengula njalo yanyamalala. Lalamhlanje kasikayingcwabi leyo nkosi ngoba isaphila.

This is a venture of(SA) Empumalanga Ndebeles. The point I'm trying to make is that we too, Ndebeles of Zimbabwe, can have such ventures to put ourselves on the map, as it were.

www.ndebele.co.uk

I was like 'Mr Bean' when as i got attended by a teller at Western Union today. She giggled and uttered some words in her language to say 'Ahh these people are in a state worse than animals!'. It was like i was naked and dirty.

Poeple here are very poor, and most of them very primitive, but i can tell you that they are happy and free.

One time, last week, i got an opinion from one businessness man, he enunciated 'Zimbabwe was once a country now ruins and drenched sere land, with indigenced people'. I felt really bad.

Now, its more like an insult to be called Zimbabwean. We need help.

Kubuhlungu inhliziyo zethu ziyakhala the country is not only in ruins but families r falling apart, sesisabalele izizwe zonke, my brothers and sisters r scattered in 4 different countries and this is the case for most families, i cannot remember when all of us were together in one place. Zim does not feel like home anymore and when i do go what i see is heartbreaking, i hope when mgaxa burns in hell, it will be a slow process for each soul he killed:(

Investing ekhaya is one hell of a process to begin with.Mthwakazi, i bureacracy elaphana iyahlanyisa.There is just a lot of back stabbing (among the mthwakazians). Sengake ngazama ukuqala eyinye i venture which was bound to change the landscape of my town but kwehlula ngendaba zenalezi.i blame izanu ngoba the reasoning yama councillors ayisatshengisi ukuthi bakhulile(its now zanueering).

ama reasons okusincitsha iventure were absurd.to add more scorn; bacina sebenika omunye umuntu who has distinctions in Business Flopping and Mismanegement i tender yakhona.So, we are left with no option but to take the money and convert it to transport fees as we exit our borders.

Bafowabo labo Dade!

Indaba yama investiment inzima. Sengizwe kanengi kuthiwa ama India kunye lama Juda kawasi mali emabhanga babolekana imali among themselves for their business developments. I got this response ngibuze an Indian fellow ukuthi how come they run seemingly successfully businesses BONKE. Wathi kayisibo bodwa lama Juda enza njalo. Abala mali yabo edliwa ngama banga in the form of interest. They generate the interest among themselves ngokwebolekana and sharing that interest.

Indaba le sengiyizwe lase Goli. Omama abanengi sebeyiqalile using somE softwareprogram to track each member's portfolio in terms of contributions borrowing, interest accrues etc. Abezemali bazi ngcono bazasitshela. Kimi izwakala njenge simbazo. Besengizibuza ukuthi kanti sona sibi ngani isimbazo abalungu bamabhanga baze basenze sibe illegal kangaka. Lityhi akukapulwa khonapho??? Kambe ayisikwesaba kwabo i competition khonalokhu? Kuyini okubi ngokuthi nxa ngile business plan yami e solid ngiyise ku Mthwakazi bayikhangele abafana bemali. Kambe lathi singeke sabolekana ngokuthembeka lokuthembana kwethu? Nxa isizalana isibhoda khonapho angithi ikhulisa labanye ingasiwanga emabhanga to generate interest lokunothisa abanye. Recently iOld Mutual demutualised again in Zim, amaxhegu of 65years baphiwa ama $500 000.00 dollars (by the way that is a life's saving now worth only is 3 full tanks of petrol) after having contributed to the fund for over 40years. Kodwa siyazi sonke ukuthi uOld Mutual usele ebambe imali le notho oku zwayo kuma bilding investments abo lakuma offshore accounts anzima. Libona njani Mthwakazi...........Lobs ngiyazi uke wasifundisa ngo thango....ihedging but akelincede ngeye simbazo lesi engisizwayo... kuthiwa why si illegal????

Ncedasni esinye isi aramu kwezemali...Ngiyabonga in advance

Zimnandi zehla zijuluka ngesilevu. Kuhle ukuthi sikuhlolisise lokhu bakwethu ngoba kungasikhulisa isizwe. Inkinga izakuba sekutheni mina mgifune ukuthuthuka ngisebenzisa abanye at their expense.

Okwamakula lamaJuda ngibona angathi kulokuthembana okuphezulu kakhulu ngoba it is a collective effort by the whole lot yokuthuthukisa izizwe zabo. Okwethu kuhlupha ngoba mina ngizafuna ukuthi ngithuthuke ngiledlule lonke besengiliginya, ngilincindezele ngihuquluze yonke imizamo yesizwe.

Kodwa singathola isikhathi sokuhloniphana kuzabalokuthembana sisebenze ndawonye sisebenzela ukuthuthukisa isizwe. Khangelani esikwenzayo singathola okuyimbijana. Ufica sesikhangelelana phansi njalo sidinga amaqhinga lamasu okuncindezelana lokuhuquluza.

Emakuleni lakumaJuda akula ongcono kulabanye bonke yizisebenzi in their collective co-operative society.

Okunye abakalahli imikhuba yabo yomdabu lababantu. They interact with the rest of the world where there is need but stick to their tested and proven ways in their intraction (amongst themselves). Thina ngilusizi ukuthi ngithi we are over eager to dibble and dabble entweni zabanye size sikhohlwe ukuthi singobani sicine sesintula lamazwe singasela identity. We can adopt okwabanye ukuthi sithole intuthuko kodwa kumele singalahli ubuntu bethu in the process sizesitholakale siqakezela amasela lenhlanya.

ASIZAMENI MTHWAKAZI OMHLE!

Asithembani, hanti? Sithembana ngabe sezi dlana uboya.

Case jailed!

Kambe kwehlula nje lokuthi ngikulayele ukuthi ungathola ngaphi a commodity at a good price. Ngihlale eHalale okwesikhathi eside okubuhlungu yikuthi abakwethu engangilabo khonale babengeze bakulayele indlela zokuphila ezingabulali isikhwama, ngitsho khona lokuku'accomodate' if you need it. Lasemazweni yisoleso, ungabuza ukuthi kanti lokhu ungakuthola ngaphi uzezwa umuntu ephonguhemahema nje kungezwakali ukuthi uthini uze usizwe ngabetshabi. Umbekele ukuthi nxa sezibheda the same person comes to you for advice and assistance, ekhohlwa ukuthi ikusasa yizolo. Kodwa nxa ekapula, kuyabekulibhungayezi eliphongungunguna kuphela, nxa sowakewezwa ingulube isidla isikuba samasese.

Asivukeni bakwethu, sabelane ulwazi ukuze sonke sithuthuke. Yikho lapho esinqotshwa khona ngabetshabi. Phela thina ungavumbulula inyosi sezingezakho wedwa, mhla singathi sihamba sonke singathi siqonda lapho ezikhona masinyane usungi'divert' ukuze ngingayizibona. Mhla sezikuntenyile suhlaba umkhosi usungidinga. Kubi lokhu bakwethu. Kukanti nga besizazi sibabili besizancedisana ngamacebo lamasu.

Abetshabi bayabambisana kuma'basics' and kanjalo kubesokusibalula kwabalesifiso sokuthuthukela ebangeni elingaphezulu, ngoba ummango uyabe usuphungulekile. Thina sifa sigogodlele i'information' that has lost its value because it is not shared. Information grows by commutation, i.e it thrives only if it is shared. If you keep it to yourself how on earth are you going to know if it has become useless? How are you going build on it?

To steal from Hlathi's motto, information not shared ceases to be such, that is informative. If no-one knows about it loses value.

Mabila

The question you raise above relates more and more to the business of "omatshonisa" kumbe ama "Pyramid schemes". These are very dangerous schemes since they are not governed by any banking laws or regulations. There is no accountability or transparency. Financial statements are not published and neither are they audited to give a fair picture of what is happening with your money, where is it invested and what is the risk thereof. These and related questions are what makes these schemes very risky and hazardous for an unsuspecting person like me and you.
In SA currently all operators of these schemes are in prison after they looted and embezzled people's funds. In Ezimtoti, Roger Boka was operating a more or less similar scheme and everybody knows what happened to his "empire" leading to his death owing people billions of Ezimtoti $. The banking executives who are currently on the run in Ezimtoti like Julius Makoni of NMB and the directors of ENG were operating more or less similar activities bordering on pyramid schemes and externalisation of forex hence their demise when they were called upon to account.

Lobs,

Nice to have you back!
My frustration right now is that I cannot explain to you very, very well what I am talking about but it is not the pyramid schemes and yet has all the banking functions you refer to in your post maintained by the members and NOT by a bank.The system thrives on the trust and commitment of it's closed membership. Akula constant recruitment of new membership like kubo Matshonisa lama Pyramid schemes. I will get more information on it and come back you you if I can. But it is a model that ama Juda lama Kula have used successfully for years ayikho nje be self-sufficient.

Mabili,

Woza lazo mntakamama thina sesitshile ngobuyanga fethu.

Lobengula,

Is there anyway ama-schemes lawa aqanjwe ngudade angasebenzisa i-Collusion either explicit or implicit?Considering that its a small closed circle of individuals possibly tied together by some other factor I suspect the above could be possible.Nxa ungazama ukukuchaza along those lines.

i Collusion yiyo phela esetshenziswa ngamacartels njengabo OPEC but those have oil on which the rules of engagement are based.Eyezemali ngiyayazi ukuthi ikhona among the groups aqanjwa nguMabila but abantu bakhona they can never tell you ukuthi benza njani.Its as if its a cultural practise with them.Ezinye izinto zabo are tied to their religions.

I hope with people like Mabila among us we might know what is happening in these schemes.

Ungangibalekisi Sthutha ngokusebenzisa i jargon zabo collusion labo cartels bantu. Ngizwelani usizi lisebenzise amabala agently for my ears hk hk hk

Mabila

We will address this issue at a later stage, let us allow other Mthwakazians to air their views on this subject without interference or interruption from some of us whose views have become too familiar in this thread.

I'm eager to get this scheme which is highlighted above.

I believe it is vital, that we as the Mthwakazi people, have some ways that will benefit us - economically, socially, politically and culturally. I thank people like Lobs, Mabila for applying their fecund imagination to elevate some of us with this priceless imformation. Keep it up guys.

Bakwethu

When we say some of these schemes are dangerous for unsuspecting victims like me and you, we effectively want to avoid scenarios like the following where Filabusi's fingers got burnt severely:


Originally posted by Filabusi:

quote:

---

Mthwakazi, ngicela ukubuza lapha, mina njengoGodlwayo I invested a lump sum of my funds kuBarbican Bank ekaMthuli Ncube supporting umuntu wakithi and as the only bank that was owned by umuntu. But into eyen****layo iyethusa because the six months of curatorship has lapsed without anything being said. This guy Mthuli, God forbid
I will kill him if I ever meet him I am reliable informed that he had bought share on some venture with Mzee Khumalo the SA Magnate and umbuzo wami kulabo who are lawyers is " is there no legal way where this guy can be made to pay people's funds by diverting the dividents he is getting at the end of the year" inyoni zithi the guy is enjoying himself in Washington imali zethu. Ncendani bakwethu.

---

Barbican Bank was a licenced bank, governed by regulations and rules applicable to all banks but still people's fingers got burnt. The question is how about schemes which run solely on the basis of mutual trust and cultural friendship? Won't we see knobkerrie wielding furious persons (like Filabusi) looking for the custodians of these funds high and low, dead or alive?
What if they take the law into their own hands per Mtongemakudla's advice and decide to decapitate the treasurers of these schemes after financial losses?

Mtongenakudla has urged that:

quote:

---

Rather, Filabusi must kill Mthuli. Uma ngabe emuthi klabe nje, makamhlahlele ngembazo, amgence umqala ngocelemba!

---

So there you have it. Accountability and corporate governance are crucial in these schemes. Crooks, dealers , wheelers and swinglers are always looking for such opportunities. Bakwethu lingazembathisi ngengubo ilanga libalele ngitsho lasebukhweni bezinja. Vukani bakwethu, imali kayila mngane kumbe intombi. Abantu abakhwabanisa izimali besebenzisa ubumenemene lobudlwangudlwangu baqala bengabantu abathembekileyo kakhulukazi. Better safe than sorry ngolwasemzini batshonjalo. Today you have all manner of financial con-men who will crook you hook-line-and-sinker in true fishing style. So the bottomline is that: You be the judge!!!

Ngiyabonga Lobs for the thoughful response but don't quite agree with your quitting and dismissing the idea yet? Amasela lamaqili are not the privy of Ndebeles only.How do these groups deal wiith their own...? Akhona emaJudeni lase MaKuleni.Selinanzelele njalo ukuthi abantu laba bahleli njani as families, either in one big house, in the same neighbourhood or somehow quite close to each other ekizekili yona indlela esakhisane ngayo emakhaya. MIna I maintain the fact that kule scheme semali abasisebenzisayo successfully and we need to know ekizekili hawu!!! I hear you Lobs, maybe your hands are tied by your professional ethics, angikusoli!!

Ngikengaxoxaxoxa lezinye zezizalwa zalama"society" abambeneyo kwezenotho. Reading between the lines ezimpendulweni kumbe ngithi ekungunguneni kwabo ngempendulo, ngithole ukuthi amasela ye abakhona phakathi kwabo, kodwa kulendlela ezenza kungabi "attractive" okobusela ezinjengoba bavele bayakuquma izandla kumbe umphimbo kube yi"accident" nje. Okunye kugxile ekungaziphakamiseni phezu kukazulu wonke, ie ekuhlonipheni umdeni, abadala, abancane lenkokheli kunye lemikhuba yesizwe sohlanga lwabo,
engilusizi ukuthi thina njengoMthwakazi sesikulahlela khatshana sisithi ngokwakudala.

Ngike ngatsho ngaphambilini ukuthi lezizizwe ziyamukela ulutsha kodwa they counterbalance it lemikhuba yomdeni wabo rather than at the expense of imikhuba.

Bakwethu,

Ngiyaxolisa ukuthi nya Mabila nge-the said jargon bengithutha,so beni-busy.Otherwise u-Siphephile usehle wakufaka kahle ngesintu ukuthi i-Collusion engabe isetshenziswa kulezi nhlanganiso isebenza njani.Ekuphindezeleni ku Siphepheli,uzathola ukuthi i-religion,family ties,and such other ties are important.

Engingela qinisa lakho yikuthi kukhona ukuthembana kithi na to support such a scheme?Phela kumaJuda for example ukuthuthukisana lokuphakamisa abakwenu kuqakatheke ukwedlula ukuziphakamisa wena.Yi cultural norm kubo le.

Liyabona ukuthi okwama juda, kulo kholo phakathi. Thina singenzani njengoba uwonkewonke elemikhuba etshiyeneyo?

Akula kuthembana la. Kulabo tsiba lezi gelekeqe laba thembekileyo njalo. Yikho sicelani isu eligoqela sonke, njalo elingasoze lisifake esilingweni soku tshontshelwa.

Yenzani njalo bwakwethu, lisi vule inkophe.

Bathandekayo

Kulalokhu abathi yi business partnership ngolwasemzini. Nowadays, this kind of a scheme seems to be doing very well ahead of those schemes that exposes us to cash or financial risk.

1)Mthwakazians come together and formulate a financing company called MT Finance Coprporation.
2)The company pools together all our funds and starts financing our own projects.
3)Dokotela wants to open his medical practice in Tsholotsho, he merely submits a business plan to MTFC, which analyses that and approves or declines the plan giving reasons for the decline, eg, there are already to many hospitals in Tsholotsho established by Turncoat Moyondini.
4)If successiful, MTFC finances the project and takes a 50% stake in the whole venture and assist with logistics, advice, management and consultancy until you are able to funtion on your own then you buy MTFC out. They do this so that they are also part and parcel of the project instead of leaving you at the deep end.

5)Then Bhudaza can apply for his loan to finace his traditional medical practice , again the same principles apply.

6)If ubaba uZwangendaba opens small businesses for his 5 wives again he can apply and the same principles will apply, MTFC finances their dress making businesses and takes a position or shareholding in the busisses of say 30%, once they are function profitably then they simply buy MTFC out of the businesses and repay the loans.

7) If udadewethu u Yimi-Kai-One wants to practice as an oldest professional worker operating from well furnished private property again the directors of MTFC will have to look closely at the cashflow projections of proposed business. Look at whether it will be cash or by credit extention? Analyse such factors as whether she will be paying tax or not?. In such cases industry experts like Afroman or Vuvuzela or Masawa might have to be called in to express a professional opinion on the viabilty thereof. But because the directors of MTFC will obviously include the likes of Rev. Lovejoy, chances of approval are very slim indeed.

8)These strategic equity partners (or business partners) are very good avenues that we as Mthwakazians can enter into. These schemes are but business development for its members and participants. You get a loan, venture into a business with the financing company only once you are running profitably do they pull out and leave you to continue with your business.

9) This is what is being used extensively here in SA to finance such deals as black economic empowerment deals where applicants normally lack finances and expertise. It has been used to empower blacks in all spheres of the economy ranging from ownership of fuel garages to professional firms to stakes in media or utility corporations like mining cmpanies.

HK HK HK HK LOBENGULA USUNGFAKA AS AN EXAMPLE ENDABENI ZAMABHIZIMISI?UYABONA WENA UYANGTHANDA KWALA UKUTHI UPHUMELE GCEKENI NJENGEZBUNU ZEMBUZI HK HK HK,LINGFISELI NHLANHLA BABA NGYABONGA.

Nkosi ,
muhle lombono , mina ngokwami ngiyawuthenga madoda , ungasibonisa na imithetho engabakhona ukuvimba ubusela lokunye kumbe ngithi engenza amadoda abalezibindi.....

Ngiyakuzwa Lobs kodwa selizaduba ngokufaka imali yabaka Mthwakazi ko Barclays ibisinothisa ama share holders ka Barclays hatshi thina. Mina ngicela lize le scheme esizathi sona lama interest and profits accured from these ventures abe ngawethu. Nxa ngingakuzwisisanga kuhle, phinda futhi baba ngimfitshane kakhulu kwezemali.

Very impressive baba Lobs. The financing on source given the Zimbabwean economic environment... Would this not be difficult?

I have heard big companies which were making huge profits have closed because of viability problems. How sure are wee, in that if these people are given loans, they will be in position to reimburse it.

If they do not succeed from sensible reasons, would they need to be subject to the same consequences as others financing groups would do? Would the financing co-op assess deeply the viability of the projects and track them to ensure efforts are done to yield something?

LOBENGULA AM VERY IMPRESSED BABA NGOBA UYAZI UMSEBENZI WAMA-COMPUTER OWAYI DONATELWA NGU JONATHAN MOYO HK HK HK HK HK,YOU ARE PUTTING IT TO BETTER USE I HOPE SEYAKUNCEDA WA-IMPROVER LE TYPING SPEED HK HK HK NGKUTHOLILE LAMUHLA LENDABA ZAKHO NGZIZWILE,UNGAPHI SO WENA EPOLICE KUMBE YOU R A STUDENT NURSE KUMBE VELE UNGU-NURSE ETSHOLOTSHO UKHANYA UHLAKANIPHILE AND THANKS 4UPDATING US NGENDABA ZAKHONALAPHO.UNGTHINTHE NGASESE AND U WILL BE SHOCKED UKUTHI NGINGUBANI.

YK1, kunjani galakatshani!! sikuthini i-stress se-UK. Ngikukhangele usukhombisa as usual. Wena ungiqeda inkani lomsuzo at the same time. Anyway good to see you ulahla umlenze njengensukuzonke. Ngikukhuthile lamuhla ngale endaweni yethu!!

bafowethu, nani bodadewethu. I wish to add my 2 cents worth. The basis for sustainable and wide ranging economic emancipation must have it's roots entrenched in a people's mindset. We obviously will not all become millionaires (though its fairly easy in ****abeland nowadays), but all of us should be able to sustain themelves. The basic principles must be taught and enforced from an early age. One good example is the South African Afrikaner people. I obviously do not approve of the way they went about achieving their dream, but the basic principle can be positively applied without trampling other peoples along the way. Once the Afrikaner decided that he had had enough of playing second fiddle to the British, the first thing they did was to drill into every Afrikaner that no Afrikaner can and will never play second fiddle to anybody. As soon as they got political power, they never allowed an Afrikaner kid to roam around aimlessly in the street. Any Afrikaner kid who couldn't make it academically was pushed into a trade school. The alternative was the army, but you would be forced to learn a trade anyway after your service. The underlying objective was to prepare people for 1)becoming self employed, 2)becoming an employment, 3) a respectable job, in that order. The difference here is that our education system seems to have been designed to achieve the above three, but in reverse order. Nowhere in all my years in school was enterprenuership ever SERIOUSLY encouraged, unless one had taken business related subjects at high school. Even though we had trade related subjects (we called them practicals at my school) at school, but the syllabuss itself was not that much geared towards creating entreprenuers out of the said subjects. It only covered the core elements of the subjects. We almost all of us wanted to become Doctors, teachers, cops etc. All these are noble careers, but a people's education sytem must highlight other possibilities for learners other than these mainstream careers. And most importantly, for thina amaNdebele to reach our full potential, no Ndebele kid must be allowed to roam the streets aimlessly. Drill it into every Ndebele child from their first cry that they are Ndebele therefore their destiny is to make something of themselves and their country, growing for ukwelusa imbuzi zika malume and playing second fiddle to other people is NOT an option. Unless ukwelusa imbuzi is big business, it must be left to pensioners. Design the education system to identify the field the learner is likely to make it and chanel them towards that. Let trades subjects become part of the high school currculum without one having to take them together with you Histories, Biologies ect. Entreprenuership should be taught from primary. Lento yokuthi abantu just cruise through to O'level only to pass three subjects if they are lucky is bull. It's just setting up people for failure. But first let it be drilled into people that failure and poverty can never be part of Ndebele vocabulary. Never under-estimate the power of mindset. Ziwu 7. Uqedile uGuluva.

Ameni Ndumshy!

THE Entreprenuerial Spirit is what the communities cited above espouse that we don't unfortunately!! I like the way your post heralds the long term vision and the goals that would direct any future leader of our Mthwakazi nation. But bigger that that is these peoples above mentiones' sense of community, common purpose and identity as a people esingelayo njalo thina. Batshaya nini ke umazivelela abe UMR....sizazi ukuthi singabaka Mthwakazi hatshi abelizwe lamatshe!

Ukwelekelela kwelikakaNdu, ngingakhiphi lutho kulokho akubethileyo.

Akumelanga kubele'stigma' ekufundeleni imisebenzi yezandla njengalokho okwenzakalayo kwelakithi. Sathi sisiya kuForm 3 kwesethu isikolo sehlukaniswa into 3 groups, Sciences, Arts, and Technicals. Wawuzikhethela ukuthi ufisa ukwenzani. Mamo, angikaze ngibone ivigoroni enjengaleya engayibona emnyango wamaSciences. Thina saphelela kubo Technical. Sabayinhlekisa emphakathini. Woza mihloliso, isipunepune bakithi sebekhuma phansi abamaScience.

Ubuthi ungaya kololiwe, kubo Conolly's, Hunyani, etc ubusithola thina abamaTechnicals izisu zicazimula hatshi ngomholo kuphela kodwa ngemisebenzi ebesiyenza ngemakhaya sesitshayisile. Lamanje nginje ezokubaza amaplanka ngiyazenzela angidingi omunye kumbe ukuthenga okubaziweyo. Ubuvila nje yibo osebufuna ukungandela, kumbe sokuhlangene lokuguga.

Ngithini ya, akukubanga ukwenza imisebenzi yezandla. Let us encourage abangelasiphiwo se'intellect' njengami ukuthi basebenzise abakwanelisayo. Masingabacakazeli phansi kumbe sibakhangelele phansi. ONkosi bevubanisa ezamabhizinisi, oZwangs befolisa amabutho, oSiphepheli bebaza amaplanka belokhe bekhafulakhafula, oDok laboBhudaza beselapha oVuvuzet laboQedakonke, oDabuka labo bevoxa obezikhuni, iNina lona liqondisa izingane ngasesikoleni, oDJ beziqhunsa njalonje, asakhiwe isizwe bakwethu.

Mabila
Dadewethu, the fatc that we here on this forum, discussing issues indicates that there is a sense of community at least to a certain extent. Kodwa the full extent of a close-knit and propsperous Mthwakazian community can only be realised once the sovereign state of Mthwakazi has been realised. Everything else depends on that.
Sphe gaz laam, spread the word.
uNdumsha kaNgwenya

The question still remains, whither Mthwakazi economically?

Madoda labodade,

I think the discussion is inverted here.

You cannot empower amaNdebele economically in an economic environment which is politically designed to specifically exclude uMthwakazi from economic empowerment. That economic environment and all such economic drivers are controlled bt the system which say you, Mthwakazi, labeLungu, you are settlers in Zimbabwe who must be driven out and are being driven out.

In this context, is this discussion useful?

Bakuzamile oMthuli Ncube, Chemist Siziba and others, against the better advice of the rest of us. bangaphi.

And dont anyone please mention oDelma. We all know the political patronage that protect him. But also inswabethi ithi liza lizelwe - elakhonale. Angilabufakazi bakho lokhu!

I think the struggle for Mthwakazi is clear.

Buso

Buso, your argument validates the reasons why it is of critical importance that the agenda of a sovereign Mthwakazi state must be pushed as a matter of urgency. That is the only way available to us.
And yes this discussion is neccesary. What would be the purpose of aspiring for a sovereign state if you don't know what you will do with it?

Ndumshy,

Your last sentence is under reply.

You are right to the extent the economic issues zikaMthwakazi are being discussed as part of a wider political agenda to grant uMthwakazi the political vehicle by which to realise economic victory. In other words, seeking sovereignty and statehood.

In my view, you are mistaken if that argument is taken to mean that you can make political inroads through economic means. And this is precisely for the reasons I state, namely, that the system is configured to systematically and specifically exclude you Mthwakazians from economic or other emanancipation that may politically threaten the system - however remotely.

Mina I would say, lets bang on the political and leave those who laugh do so. This is not new. The post-colonial systems that we see today were once laughed at. The message will filter through, as indeed it clearly is now.

We are now hearing criticism of the MDC from people who have previously been uncritical of the it. In future, we hope they can join or lend their support to Mthwakazi's cause.

Ifuna ukubanjiswana indaba le.

Buso

I misinterpreted your first argument, plz accept my apologies. Of course political inroads precede economic and any other agenda thereof.

Bakwethu

Currently there is the on-going Homelink Scheme being aggrssively marketed by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe which is targeted exclusively to people in the diaspora or those working outside the country.

I recently (after Xmas) went to the Bulawayo City Council housing department (where I also met one of the leading members of our forum Hlathi hk hk),and specifically asked them about their experiences of the Homelink Scheme and how our people can utilise it. The grim answer I got was that currently there are 1 Acre x 1 Acre stands available in Khumalo / Parklands areas. Similar stands exist in Mahatshula / Selborne Park areas. Stands are also availble in Mganwini and Pumula South near the Mbonqane area (hk hk).

The council housing staff expressed discomfort with the fact that the only people who keep enquiring about stands or property were people from the East (Mashland) who are based in foreign countries. The question they asked me was where are our own people, the Khumalos, the Ndlovus, the Ncubes, Dubes , Nkalas, Moyos (not Jones), the Mlotshwas etc etc??????. It would seem that the Tshabi bloc is trying to use the Homelink scheme to monopolise Bulawayo!!!. But as a partriotic organisation, the BCC has tactifully delayed the use of the Home Link scheme thereby deliberately giving us the time to make a decision whether or not we want to acquire property using this scheme. The fact of the matter is that whilst we are still undecided and dilly-dallying, the Tshabis are waiting on the fence to sneak in should we delay even further. The next thing we will be kicking ourselves in the back crying foul when all our surbubs have been colonised by these people with the consequent that our sisters will unwittingly fall victim to the economic power of these monsters.

So the question is what should our policy be regarding these Homelink schemes? Some might want to know how the whole Homelink scheme functions ?, we can address this if needs be. Will the acquisition of a property by any Mthwakazian in Byo be equated to being a turncoat?. I think we need to pronounce on this issue so that we approach it from a concerted and collective viewpoint. If we pronounce on whether or not Mthwakazians can buy property using such schemes, it will open new opportunities whereby we keep updating each other on new opportunities without fear of being labelled or branded with predictable ugly names.

So members of this forum must express their opnions on this issue because further delay will only disadvantage us as a people. It is useless for Lobengula or Gazlam to acquire a stand or house in Khumalo or Parklands when the whole area is swamped by the Tshabis, but it is good if we can acquire these stands and properties en masses as Mthwakazians.

The thing to do- given the scenario you describe above and Mthwakazi mistrust of Zanu-inspired Homelink - would be for the BCC to roll out its own "HouseLink" for Mthwakazians.

We would then by-pass the Tshabi-inspired scheme altogether, si dealer nabadala direct. Kanjalo, siyovimba!

Uthini?

Skuvethe

Absolutey mfowethu, they should make a revision of that scheme, make it a BCC owned scheme and ensure that ZPF does not put its dirty hands in that scheme to milk our foreign currency and use it in its campaign for the lections or else siyazithengela directly as we have always done and are doing well before this homelink existed.

Mthwakazi asizameni ukudingisisa indaba le yezindlu nxakuvuma sithengeni.Ukulandisa kuzasenza sisale emuva abatshabi bethenga umhlaba wonke ko Mthwakazi.Mina nje sengiphona koBulawayo ngizwe uokuthi kuhambanjani.Ngingezwa anything ngizalazisa.

Skuvethe & Chairman Mthembo are you saying that we are failing to buy stands & houses in our region coz iHomelink is backed my ZPF?If that is what you are saying I'm afraid to say that is not true and you are wrong.I bet my last cent ukuthi even if council started is own homelink service they would not even be an increase in the number of stands and houses being bought by amaNdebele abeTshabi will continue buying them.

Personally speaking what ZPF does with my hard earned forex has nothing to do with me.At the end of the day i want to do is stand up and say i own a house,i own a car,i own that for my benefit whether i aquired it through iHomelink yeZPF, yeCouncil okusalayo i would be a better person kusasa than izolo.As long as silenqondo yokuthi ngizinto zeZPF,zamaTshabi we will loss out and watch them take over our region emini ilanga likhanya.

----------------
"Share your knowledge.It's a way to achieve immortality

Mthwakazi
Abale interest ngama 1acre stands bafowethu bangafonela i housing department ko Bulawayo inombolo ngu 00-263-9-75011 ext 2019.Bathe okwamanje akhona e Parklands.Uma usemazweni uyathumela izihlobo i power of attorney ukuze bekuthathele i form yoku register.Intengo yi 57 to 97 million zimkwacha.You pay half deposit.Thats a good deal.Bathe okweHomelink scheme abakakhulumi ngakho.Okunengi lizakuzwa emawofisini lingafona baka Mthwakazi.

Hlathi

What you probably do not know yikuthi abantu bakaMthwakazi in the diaspora having buying and continue to buy houses like nobody's business well before this ZPF homelink, where they are plotting to benefit from our hard earned currency!

The problem yikuthi abantu they think abantu have not been buying houses ekhaya, till this homelink ZPF scheme! The opposite is true. I know many many Mthwakazians who have been investing in housing home.

Some of us started long time ago and we do not need to go via this ZPF homelink scheme esokucathamela izimali zethu.

But then we can not prescribe what is best for you. Lalowo lalowo do what ever sees kukahle! If you feel it is good for you to benefit ZPF through this scheme, then do so. But am sure you can buy houses directly with the council without throwing amasheleni akho kuZPF.

True baba Mthembo, yikho kanye ebesilokhe sizama ukukwelekela abanye. Uhlupho bakwethu ngolokucabanga ngesisu sendlala. Isitha sesasifunda sasazi ukuthi thina singamagwala angafuni ukuzicabangela, yikho sebeze becathamela our hard earned forex ngendlela eziphansi kangaka. What is the point in getting those houses if at the same time you are fostering, bolstering and shoring up the entrenchment of a corrupt institution? Why give more facilities and means to your rapist to continue raping you? Mina ngithi vukani Mahlabezulu liyeke ukucabanga ngezisu zendlala. Sesifikile isikhathi sokuthi sisukume sibalwe ekwaleni ukuncindezelwa ngezinto ezincane ezinjengabo Home/House Link.

Lingizwisisise ukuthi angisukanga lapha ebengimi khona, kwelokuthi okapulayo kakapule bakwethu nxa kukapuleka, hatshi ukubimbithela uMthwakazi entweni engelahlonzi let alone security. Kusasa ngemva kokuthenga leyondlu ngemali zezithukuthuku zegazi bengeza bekuthathele leyondlu uzabe useselalo na igazi lokuchitha futhi utshikitsha ishift? Yiyo ingozi engiyibonayo leyo bandla ukuthi ngokungathembeki kwalababantu kungenzeka ukuthi bakuthathele leyondlu ngemva kokuyithenga njengalokhu esikubone sakuzwa emapulazini. Asazi njalo.

Ayihlome bakwethu.

Bakwethu

There is so much talk about foreign currency externalision in Mgaklaland. This is a phenomenon which has now become criminalised by Gono in his insatiable and intensified desire to increase foreign currency reserves for his beleaguered and embattled country. The latest salvo in this direction is the announcement made a few days ago that all mining companies must repatriate their foreign currency reserves deposited off-shore with immediate effect. Needless to say this will further destroy the economic outlook for the country, the most immediate effect will be pandemonium in the mining industry with mining industrialists diving for cover and panicking.

But the more relevant question to laymen like me and you is: what exactly is foregn currency externalisation and how is it manifested in our daily transations? Are we or our families involved unwittingly or unknowingly in these kinds of transactions?
Bafowethu let us discuss this issue of forex externalisation and see whether or not Mthwakazians are affected in some ways. It must be noted that a number of persons and organisations have either been arrested or closed down indefinately on accusations of being participants in forex externalisation. The issue is that most of us who are resident in foreign countries are indeed participants in these transactions without knowing the legality thereof. Let us not be caught with our financial pants below our knees.

Nkosi !

Ngitsho sibili ababambe with those pants down hk hk hk hk Mina angifuni sibili ukuthi ngithi remit my hard earned bhutshi dollar via the reserve bank abangafuni ngi vote. Abangazi ukuthi am a citizen of theirs who is an economic refugee lapha emazweni wallowing in poverty and snow and very lonely disconnected from my home and people. The least they can do is give me a ballot paper to exercise my fundamental right of expression. Maybe my outburst here does not even answer your question directly but ungavele uthi forex, vele ngibona red hk hk hk hk! ZANU PF watched these forex dealings bengenzi lutho for over two years. WHY???

Mabs

I am not saying we should repatriate our hard earned cash back to Mgaklaland, no, iam merely saying let us discuss about the so-called forex externalisation as a way of empowering ourselves with information so that we are not caught off-guard tomorrow by the ever overzealous Gono. Some members of this forum have businesses and organisations which could face the serious risk of possible closure eg Dr Mthuli Ncube's Barbican Bank as a result of charges of forex externalisation being levelled against them. Also as individuals, we might find ourselves in serious difficulties due to lack of familiarisation with the ever changing dictatorial laws of Mgaklaland.

The thrust of my post is that let us discuss this issue as a community and see in what way it can affect us as a people.

Ngingazi njalo Lobs I stand to be corrected here.Botswana was/is positioning itself as a "financial" services centre in the region angithi?? What does that mean for the region and us?? WHat could it mean for foreign currency externalization or is that irrelevant for us........

Mabs


Hk hk hk ngiyakuzwa kancane dade, kodwa ke iqiniso yikuthi Botswana will never be a financial services centre in the region. Even under the auspices of the Botswana based SADC, Botswana is still responsible for cattle ranching etc.
Mabs I think that your question on forex externalisation is a stand alone issue, it is not related to Botswana becoming or wishing or dreaming to be a financial centre in the region.

Qhuba ke eye externalization leyo silalele.

Kodwa hayi kabi Lobs, Botswana is busy ngeze mali eze financial sevices shuwa inviting financial gurus from Washington DC labo beza lapha ukuza kuthi lay outtheir strategy?? What is that all about?? Bengithi ngi externalayize duze lekhaya hk hk

Mabila please slow down, some of us are pedestrian. Please don't talk about breaking the law as a stance when nobody actually understands what law they are breaking.

..........................................

In simpler terms, externalisation is when an institution or individual has exported goods or services but does not bring back the foreign currency generated by the exports in question.
It also boils down to externalisation when an institution or individual exports goods worth millions of dollars but decides to bring back only part of the money generated, stashing the remainder outside the country.

Externalisation can also come in the form of under invoicing.
Under-invoicing occurs when an institution or individual deliberately makes out an invoice reflecting a price that is lower than the actual worth of the exported commodities.
Such an institution or individual has externalised foreign currency and can be prosecuted.

However, when an individual is travelling abroad there is a limit as to how much foreign currency he or she must take out.“If one takes an amount far above the one stipulated, he or she has not externalised but has simply flouted the Exchange Control Regulations,” said Kwesu.

When one buys a vehicle outside the country, paying the dues obviously in foreign currency, such an individual has not externalised but has imported a car, further reasoned Kwesu, adding that it constitutes no offence to import goods.
The police are of the view that externalisation takes place when one unlawfully keeps ‘large’ amounts of foreign currency outside the country.
But how large is large? So if an individual keeps an insignificant amount of forex outside the country, has she or he not externalised?

Assistant police commissioner Wayne Bvudzijena is of the view that externalisation takes place when an individual or institution bypasses the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe when importing goods.
“When one wants to import goods, the procedure is that such an individual or institution approaches the Reserve Bank to change the local currency into foreign currency and in the process fills papers indicating that he or she has done so,” explained Bvudzijena.

From Bvudzijena’s explanation, one gets the assumption that the institution or individual willing to import does not have the foreign currency hence seeks it from the Reserve Bank.
But, what if that individual or institution has received the foreign currency through Homelink or Western Union Money Transfer the foreign currency from a relative or organisations and opts to import a car, does it still add up to externalisation?

A prominent Harare lawyer has argued that for one to be charged with externalising foreign currency, it all dependency with the source of the foreign currency that the individual or institution has used to import goods.
The theory behind his argument is that a person cannot be accused of having externalised foreign currency if such an individual has used free-funds to import goods.
One can only be charged with externalising foreign currency if such an individual or institution has made use of non-free funds in importing goods
Free funds are those funds gotten either through donations or non-business activities while non-free ones are those funds generated through business activities in a country.
But is it at all possible to prove in a court of law whether or not an institution or individual made use of free or non-free funds when it imported goods?
What really is this ‘creature’ called externalisation and is it permissible to engage in trade without externalising foreign currency in one way or the other?


"Daily Mirror"

Sekusithi dhlwe kancane.

Mina ngisesikolo eHarare, we were addressed once by a guy from the reserve bank.One of the pieces of information asinikeza yona ngeyokuthi each time the "Presidency" goes outside the country uthwala thousands of American dollars for state "protection". Nxa kudingakala ukuthi angaphenduku yiyona mali ayithembileyo leyo. Nxa epheduka he does not account or take it back to the bank!! Ngitshelani ke mina nge externalisation edlula leyo!

Bhudaza

A very good extract that you have quoted above. It goes a long way towards partly explaining this devil called forex externalistion. Even pedestrians like us are now getting a better picture. But my feeling is that there could be other aspects that are left out. Forex externalisation in the Zim context is obviously shrouded in secrecy and confusion as you rightly assert above.

Bafowethu.

Nifundile bafowethu. Ngiyabonga.

Kengibuze, ngoba eze MALI ngiyazithanda kodwa ziyangixaka kancane.

Ngingaba le SAVINGS ACCOUNT in U$ kodwa ise South Afrika from my earnings emsebentini wami lapha e USA, i EXTERNALISATION na??? njalo kulicala na???

Ngingaba le SAVINGS zami e STANDARD CHARTERED ZIMBABWE in U$ from my earnings yi EXTERNALISATION na??? Kulicala na???

Li Zwangendaba.

Zwangendaba


To answer your questions above, where you ask whether maintaining a US$ Savings account in a South African Bank amounts to foreign currency externalisation, the following suffices:

Scenario A

1)You are ordinarily resident and working in the USA.
2)You earn your money in US$
3)You have invested your money in South Africa by depositing it into a Savings Bank
4)The money that you invested into a South African Savings bank was not earned in Zimbabwe.

Verdict: You have not externalised any foreign currency insofar as Zimbabwe is concerned. The money that you invested into your South African Savings Account was not earned from work done in Zimbabwe or from Business run in Zimbabwe. You earned your money in the USA hence it has nothing to do with Zim or Gono for that matter. This is the money that Gono is begging from you guys with his so-called Home-link and Money-Link programmes. In fact this is money that Ndebeles in the diaspora should be using as a carrot and stick to influence policy in their favour in Mgaklaland particularly demand for the much talked about federation.

Scenario B

You ask whether maintaining a US$ account at Standard Chartered (Zim) while working in the USA could amount to forex externalisation?
The following points arise:

1)You are ordinarily resident and working in the USA.
2)You earn your money in US$
3)You have invested your money in Zim by depositing it at Standard Chartered(Zim)
4)The money that you invested into a Standard Chartered bank was not earned in Zimbabwe.

Verdict: You have not externalised foreign exchange in any way whatsoever. In fact you have done the opposite. You have brought into the country hard currency in the form of US$. That is a perfect situation that Gono and his team at Reserve Bank of Zim want. The following example illustrates the scenario very well:

Assume that the estImated 3 million Zimbabweans in the diaspora follow Zwangendaba's gesture and open bank accounts with Standard Chartered (Zim).
Assume further that these exiles send home about US$100 every month. Now mathematically that amounts to US$300 million being sent home (3million x US$100). In 12 months (one year) this results in US$3.6 billion being sent to Zim. This will be a boom for the Zim economy. Zimbabwe would have earned US$3.6 billion per year for exporting nothing!!!!.

That will be sweet music in the ears of Mugabe and his coterie of tribalists.

Bakwethu

Those who are closer to the business community in Mthwakazi (read Matebeleland) is there any organisation that represents business interests called the Matebeleland Chamber of Business or any business caucus that represent the business community in Matebeleland? Are businesses in Matebeleland represented by organisations that are centred in Harare? If there is no such chamber of business representing the interests of business in Matland, then we need to move fast and form such an organisation without delay.

Ubaba uNtombankala labanye bangahle basize ngaloludaba. Otherwise our politics requires that while the likes of Arch Ncube are belting it out in the politico-religious front, the business community must also be seen to be doing something along the lines of pressurising the gvt from a business view point. Is it not a tragedy that this Robber Mugabe's regime has presided over the continued erosion and destruction of industry in Matebeleland in general and Bulawayo in particular. Where is the once famous Cold Storage Commission (ko Storishi to the villagers), where is NRZ, where is G& D? where is the famous "ema nda" (industrial sites) where the likes of Potshoza & Mntongenakudla used to work and were celebrities with their famous speedy bicycles fitted with hooters menacing daily to and from Emandastrial sites.

Mthiyane

Awu mfoka baba, i-Khostorishi seyawa. Yabhidlizwa yindoda yakwaMthwakazi.

Mina ngavele ngathatha ibhayisikili lami ngafulathela immediately after ukuboshwa kwe Manenja, uMnumzane uMadonko. Eish, leya ndoda yasibulalela amatoho wethu. Yasiphuca isinkwa emlonyeni. Leya ndoda yakhwabanisa too much, yadla yaqeda izinkomo zenkampani. Yavele yadla, kwavalwa nenkampani.

The last time I heard ngo-Madonko, he was under 24hr house arrest for his criminal cattle rustling tendencies.

So much for Mthwakazian men being 100% incorruptible, always above board, honest, upright, true and hardworking.

Yisono ngaye!

uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa
Ngiphum’ ezansi Ongoye
Umful’ engiwuphuzayo – ngiphuz’ uThukela – umful’ osh’ izikhawu!
Ngiyinkwali yenkosi
uMashukumbela
uVeyane
uMtubatuba
umcondo yegusha

Inxangiphilile
KwelikaMthaniya

Bafowethu.

Lobs, that means my (Zim) account will not stand as a forex account??? I need clarity there. Some one explained it differently. I can not see myself killing my own people. My money is converted???

I would rather "Break The Law" and close it down.

Li Zwangendaba.

Baba Zwangendaba

You raise a few items in your post above:

quote:

---

Lobs, that means my (Zim) account will not stand as a forex account??? I need clarity there. Some one explained it differently. I can not see myself killing my own people. My money is converted???
I would rather "Break The Law" and close it down.

---

Zwangendaba, Your Zim Account will stand as a forex account. That is legal and allowed in terms of financial regulations as stipulated by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. As long as you deposit your money in US$ or Pound or Euro or Rand etc etc, the said bank ie Standard Chartered (Zim) is obliged to remit (give) your money to your 5 wives in the currency of your choice ie US$ if you deposited it in US$. But obviously your youngest wife, because she likes shopping in South Africa she might want to receive her share in SA Rands. In this case the situation takes a twist. Now she has to apply for forex and use her US$ to buy the SA Rand.

Look, all this is theoretically true but in practice the situation is very different. The first hurdle that your 5 wives(assuming omunye kabalekanga as yet)will encounter baba Zwngendaba is that having deposited your money directly in US$ into your US$ Account, they will battle to secure the remittace in US$. They will be told that there is no forex available. They could be told to come back next month, and when they do so again they will be told that forex is not yet available. Now the only option they have is to receive their money in Z$. Unfortunately that is the reality on the ground. Now as you rightly state above, despite the fact that you have a valid US$ Account, in which you deposit US$, your 4 or 5 wives will eventually get their money in Z$ after conversion from US$ solely by virtue of forex shortage.Again one must emphasise that the rates paid by banks and other authorised money dealers are very sad indeed. After careful considerations, a lot of people prefer to use the dreaded "black market" where the rates are very much market related. The risk there is obviously the fact that this area is saturated with crooks, racketeers, conmen, dealers and other malcontents who prey on unsuspecting people.

Kindly note that whensoever you decide to close your forex account down, you are not in any way whatsoever "breaking the law". Whosoever decides to prosecute you for closing down a useless account, howsoever they justify it, would be epitomising the lawlessness of Zimbabwe in general and the usury activities of the financial sector in particular.
That is your individual choice, no law would have been broken.

Zinsizwa

Are there any members of the forum who are interested in learning and/or sharing ideas about the interpretation of business news bulletins eg, the interpretation of the so-called FTSE 100 share index (pronounced "footsie" 100, the German Dax, the French CAC, the JSE All Share index, the Dow Jones industrial Average, the NIKKEI 225, the NASDAQ etc etc.
How do these indexes reflect companies share performances and how do they influence economic news. Let us discuss such issues as what infulences exchange rates, interest rates , oil prices and gold price. How do these affect us and our families? Those who are interested can start the ball rolling on any of these issues.

If we can be as fluent and erudite on economic issues as we are on politics, then our nation would have indeed grown by giant leaps into the world of knowledge.

Nceda Nkosi sifunde thina mpumputhe hk hk hk

Esami isandla sesisemoyeni!

the price of commodities you mentioned above lobengula, like oil and gold are affected mostly by the climate currently surrounding the areas where they are produced.Khangela i oil recently was trading at almost US$55.00 a barel becoz of impi ze Iraq lezi and THE UNSTABILITY of the middle east.Some OPEC(Org of Petroleum Exporting Countries)are producing less oil than they can there by driving prices up.I Nigeria is member of these OPEC yaba lama problems of ethnic fighting there by reducing the amount of oil production per day which will obviously drive prices thruogh the roof.The stock market reacts to all the factors resulting in a rise or decrease in the price index.My knowledge is quite limired,but this is an interesting discussion,i will try to dig deeper and find out more about this topic

This is a good subject, I did notknow that I can learn a lot lapha. Lobengula keep the fire burning mnumzane. Kuyabongeka, I just read one or two contributions hatshi ezomkhonomi liyazenza sibili. Ngike ngabala about someone's FCA, I think regarding to ama FCAs, they can withdraw their monies without any problems, its an issue of ukuthi someone will just go to his/her bank and tell them to prepare a bank draft of soo much without getting any authorisation from the reserve bank. Lapha akunankinga ngitsho and you will not be told that there is no forex because the forex iyabe ikhona kuaccount yakho. In preparing the draft, your bank, in this case StanChart will debit their Nostro account angazi whichever bank they bank their forex (USDs0 with so its not a problem. If you have an FCA lezinsuku akunankinga, you can liquidate it anytime.

I like the subject i mean ezdemali Lobengula akusichathekele nge Footsie 100 leyo sizwe.

Mnumzane Lobengula

Ekubaleni kwami izindatshana ezehlukile, ngithole ibala elithi Euronnext.liffe ungangichasisela ukuthi yintoni njalo kwenziwani lapha. Ngikhanya ngiyithandile indaba yakhona kodwa angiyizwisisa nga ukuthi kwenziwani mhlawumbe ngingathola umuntu ozakubeka nge layman's language kungabangcono.

Ngiyabonga

Bafowabo

Those of us who want to indulge a bit into financial issues will find this discussion interesting. We have to start with the so-called stock market indices (indexes) and we will begin with the more famous ones like Dow Jones Industrial Average, FTSE 100, S&P 500, the German DAX, the French CAC 40 and the NASDAQ in the USA.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average is a stock market index that is computed by summing the prices of the stocks in the average and then dividing by a constant called the "divisor".

What this means is the that stock prices of a total of 30 leading US companies (eg Microsoft, 3M,Coca Cola, Exxon etc) that make up the bulk of listed companies in New York Stock Exchange are totalled (summed), and then calculated into an average. This average becomes a benchmark (index), at which any stock price gets measured against.
In simple terms what this means is that the Dow Jones Industrial Avarage is the average performance of the 30 biggest companies in the USA. How these companies peformed is used by the market as a benchmark measure to pronounce on whether or not the markets are doing well!!!.

The Footsie 100, works in exactly the same principle, only that 100 top UK companies are used to gauge the average perfomance in the London Stock Exchange.

In Germany, the German DAX is used to measure the performance of shares at the Frankfurt Stock Exchange, again using a collection of leading German companies like BMW, Bayer, VW etc etc.

In France the French CAC 40 is used. Again a collection of 40 French companies are used to get an average peformance of their shares. THIS then becomes the index or benchmark to measure the French stock prices (share prices).

The Standard & Poor's 500 also uses the same principle except that it takes 500 US companies into a basket and works out their share perfomances and then construct an index. In the US there is an index that is devoted to technology companies only and it is called the NASDAQ.

In South Africa, the Johannesburg All Share Index is used to aggregate all listed companies share performances and that is used as a benchmark for all SA listed companies. In Zimbagwe or NguluMthwaGwe as Inkundla members prefer to call it, the Zim All Share index is used again aggregating all listed companies share peformances and using that as an average index.


Now in your news report in the evening, you are told about how these indexes (indices) performed on that particular day eg the Dow Jones lost 2%, the Footsie 100 gained 3%, while the French CAC 40 was down 4% on the back of a French No Vote on the EUROPEAN Constitution.

In NguluMthwaGwe, the Zim All Share Index lost 9% on the back of Mugabe's unprecedented attack on the farming community and industrialists.

These are your typical business news stories.

Add to that a few items like Gold Price, Oil price, Currency Exchange rates etc etc. These are influenced by the performace of stock markets as described above.

Asiyibekeni lapha for now bakwethu!!!!

Lobs
Good stuff. Woza lazo mfowethu, kuyabukeka

Good stuff indeed.

So mnumzane Lobengula. I think we now have an idea about this indices and the stock markets which are there can you like educate us on what exactly happens in those stock exchanges, are they physicall structures or they do not have form they are just wireless like the internet.

If someone tells me that istock exchange ngamakhasi will thet peson be lying or there is an element of truth in that statement.

How do I join these so called JSEs, ZSEs, LSEs NASDACs if kuyikuthi ziyajoyinwa. I think this is where sisilela khona as Mthwakazi. Uyazi we want to see the Buffets bako Mthwakazi educate us maybe thina mpuphuthe singavuka sesiwatshayile amakhasi emakethi.


Is it Godly to trade in the stock exchange??? Ngamakhasi phela?????

Asazi phendulani sizwe

Msupatsila

To directly answer your question relating to Euronext the following will suffice:

Euronext is an exchange where financial instruments are listed and traded. It is therefore essentially a market facility just like a stock exchange. Derivative products like options, swaps, money market instruments, futures and forwards are bought and sold at or via this market.

Euronext offers a range of integrated services including the listing of financial instruments, trading in securities and derivatives, clearing through its associates, netting and settlement through its subsidiaries . In other words Euronext, offers a facility where traders in financial instruments can do business by offering these services at an integrated facility.

Euronext bought LIFFE, the London-based international derivatives market, and in the process became the largest derivatives market in the world, second only to the Chicago Board Of Exchange in the USA.

Msupatsila to put it ngolimi lweNkosi uMzilikazi, iEuronext ifana loMkambo (eMakokoba) lapho okuthengiswa khona izimali (Dollars, Pounds, Kwacha) njalo kuyabolekwana izimali lapha , kulabo matshonisa, kulabathengisa amabonds njalo njalo. Into ongeke uyithole lapha ngabathengisa ngokomzimba (ladies of the night) hatshi laba ke abekho nsizwa yakithi. Yindawo nje yezikhulu zithengisa, ziboleka, njalo zixubanisa izimali, wonke umuntu efuna eyakhe izale njalo yande okwedlula eyabanye.

Ngingatsho ukuthi it covers the whole of Europe, with centres in Brussels, London, Amsterdam , Paris kunye lase Frankfurt.

Msupatsila

Stock exchanges are indeed physical and they have a physical address. The New York Stock Exchange is located at Wall Street, New York, The Johannesburg Stock exchange is at Fredman Drive, Sandton, the London Stock Exchange is at Throgmorton Street, London.

Now if you want to buy and/or sell shares at the stock exchange you need to contact your stock broker. The stock broker is authorised by law to do this on your behalf. You merely pick up a phone and tell him, that you have US$100 and you want to buy shares of Anglo American. He will do so on your behalf and ou can then be a proud owner of Anglo American shares , hence a shareholder in the company.
Remember when you buy something, you need authenticity and validity of the product etc etc, the broker does that on your behalf and you get presented with a share ownership certificate once the transaction is concluded. Of course the broker charges you a small commission for all the work done.

As to whether buying or selling shares is equivalent to "amakhasi", this is a bit far fetched. It is equivalent to saying if you buy 10 cattle (shares) at US$100 each now equal to US$1000. And you hold on to them until next year and decide to sell them in 2006 at US$200 each due to high demand for beef. Now you make US$2000.
Inversely, while you are still holding on to your cattle, you face the risk of losing all of them if they are killed and eaten by amakhanka or if they all die due to mad cow disease or anthrax.

That is where "amakhasi" part comes in. You are holding shares of Hunyani Holdings, an Agro-based company that owns land in Zim. Mugabe expropriates the land leaving Hunyani sharehlders holding worthless paper. Or you are holding shares of Enron or Worldcom, thev company collapses due to mismanagement, you lose all your investment. That is essentially where "amakhasi" come in.

But you could be holding shares of an oil based company, like Exxon, the oil price shoots up to US$50 a barrel , surely you gain a lot due to the oil price appreciation!!!!.

Mfowethu Lobengula.

I thank you very much for the answers you gave, kodwa you seem to have negotiated your way past the question of amakhasi in such a way that the aswer is not very clear. Lets just leave it. What is the risk involved in this business. Just look at the Manchester United Malcom Glazier case or any other cases that you might know. As a person holdin a tiny % do I benefit when the Malcom Glazers of this world announce a hostile take over?


Lets forget about the top part of this contribution, bengifisa siyilonde kakuhle indaba yomkhambo lo owezimali. Right I go to my brocker and ask him to buy me Old Mutual vele what do I consider when buying these so called shares. For me to say yes yes this is a good buy what do I consider or where do I get the information (good information) Remember financial analysts are not good at providing such information, some analysts up to the day when Enron went bankrupt, were telling the public that Enron is a good buy. After that hantsho in the States now anlysts can be taken to court angazi mhlawumbe ngibale kubi. Qondisa. If you give like sources of information I can use to see ukuthi, myep this is a good buy and ngingathenga njani ngingathaba kakhulu. The other thing kanti vele kuvela ngaphi ukuthi ngiyathenga my shares at £3 lamuhla, kusasa evuke eseku £5 kumbe eseku £1.50. OK BESENGIKHOHLIWE KANTI NGIVELE NGINGUMZIMBABWE NGINJE, NGINGATHENGA NA EMKHAMBO WE GOLI (JSE) KUMBE OWE LONDON (LSE) ETC

Lobengula we need people like you in this forum. MAKING MONEY MAKES SENSE

Msupatsila

Wahle wangena ngayo ngempela ekaMalcom Glazer involving his take over of Man United.

To begin with let me provide you with the following facts relating to this deal.

Manchester United is valued at 790.3 million Pounds (US$1.46billion). Malcom Glazer, a US sports tycoon, offered an unconditional 3Pounds a share and henceforth bought up to 75% of the club, paying about 593 million pounds in total to the current shareholders who saw it fit to sell their shares at that price.

Glazer who hitherto (already) owned 28% of the club, effectively bought 29% stake from two Irish shareholders (JP MacManas & John Magnier)and acquired the difference from other minority shareholders. This then resulted in him owning about 75% of the club, thereby becoming a major shareholder with controlling powers by virtue of his majority shareholding.

Now the question which arises is: Was Mr Glazer right in acquiring Man United? The answer is yes. Man United is a listed company , listed at the London Stock Exchange. Its shares are floated daily at the exchange with current shareholders either buying or selling their stakes at Man United trying to cash in on price differences. What Glazer did is a normal business transaction, that either me or you could have done if we had the necessary resources.

You must remember that the two Irish shareholders who sold their stakes to Glazer made a profit of 80 million Pounds.

Now, look at it this way: Glazer poured in his life time investments of 593 million pounds to this deal (Man United) expecting to make more money, ie, returns. In terms of risk (which is clear & present) what if Man United are relegated to lower divisions and fans stop attendind its matches. What if Man United loses its colour and becomes an ordinary substandard club if Sir Alex Ferguson quits or it loses our very own Quinton Fortune?. These are serious risks that Glazer must stomach despite putting his money. Saw one must look at it from a risk point of view.

Msupatsila, the issue here is that the whole deal amounts to foreign direct investment. Here is a businessman, a serious investor, Glazer putting over half a billion pounds into Man United. Isn't that good?

Incidentally, here in South Africa, just last week we witnessed the biggest foreign direct investment since the fall of apartheid. Barclays Bank (UK) bought 60% of ABSA Bank, South Africa's largest bank, paying well over 33 billion Rand (US$5.5 billion). ABSA ironiacally owns the Zim based Commercial Bank of Zimbabwe which was headed by Gono prior to his move to the central bank.

Can you imagine if Glazer had poured that kind of money to Bulawayo Highlanders. What would have happened to Barbourfields? Would you still have the scotched earth sitting arrangement at the Soweto stand? Surely a high-tech luxurious stadium would be erected. Luxurious bars and restuarants would be erected all over around BF. Mzilikazi, Makokoba and BF would be like Old Trafford Road in terms of infrustructure. Do you think that we will be having endless appeals for money from the likes of Tshisa appealing on behalf of bosso due to its endless financial problems?

The problems with clubs like bosso is that they are run like social soccer clubs (which in fact is what they are) and not like businesses in the lines of Man United or Real Madrid. They are not listed at the Zim Stock Exchange. Its shares are not available for purchase by its millions of die-hards supporters. You can imagine if bosso decides to model itself as a private or public company: issue shares to the public, say issue 1 million shares at Z$200 000 a share, that translates to total revenue of (1 million X $200 000) about Z$200 billion if the shares are fully subscribed by possible shareholders (local and foreign). And if bosso does not decide to do so, time will condemn it being a perpetual small outfit. The bottomline is that foreign investors have a positive impact on any company as demonstrated by Abramovich at Chelsea FC which only managed to win the League once in 50 years. Chances are that it would not have won it in the absence of Abramovich and Jose Maurinho.

At least in South Africa the picture is changing with Kaiser Chiefs for example being now a propritary company owned by among others, Primedia, the newspaper giant.

Msupatsila, what causes shares to move up and down is simple.
I will use an imaginery Mthwakazian Company called Victoria Falls Ltd whose business is managing the Vic Falls, deriving its revenue (income) from tourists who visist one of the seven wonders of the world, Vic Falls, in their millions. Let us say its shares are currently trading at US$5 a share. This price is considered very low by virtue of low visitors that are currently visit the Falls, high risk of political violence, lack of democracy, high taxes, distorted exchange rates, etc etc.

Now if by a feat of luck, MDC wins the election and a new president is sworn in. He overhauls all the bad laws, reforms the gvt, invites all exiles, asylum seekers, refugees etc to come back home. He democratises the country and stop lashing out at the West but invites them to come and invest in the country or visit the country as tourists.

Now all of a sudden there is a stampede at Vic Falls with formerly exiled Zims, foreign visitors, dignitaries, honeymooners(Mabila & her American husband from Harlem),Our Royal Highness Cde Potshoza from the Royal Leamington Spa with his Ethiopian sweetheart, our very own Bhudaza with his imported traditional healer girlfriend from Nigeria. All these people are paying to view the Falls and they book at nearby hotels also owned by this Vic falls Ltd company. Everyone is enjoying themselves: honeymooners are doing their morning glory overlooking the splendour and awe of the mighty Falls!!!!. His Royal Highness has relaxed his normally stiff-upper lip, over-awed by the glitz and glamour of the Falls on the background. With all these people, business will be booming at Vic Falls. Now what do you think would happen to the share price of Vic Falls Limited? Will it remain stuck at the price at which it was trading during the Mugabe era? No ways. The share price will most likely jump to US$10 a share. Now this must be a very good down to earth illustration without all the unnecessary jargon and financial technicalities. Equally if some aggressive foreign power decides to bomb and destroy the Vic Falls, it follows that Vic Falls Ltd will go bankrupt since no one will bother to visit the ruins thereafter.

Lobengula




Mfowethu ukuchasisa uyakwazi sibili. Kodwa is it possible for the subject to be taught in our language sindebele, is the answer is yes the how do you explain some of this financial jargon. I think this has to be taught at grassroots level so that kids will grow up knowing all these things rather that ukuthi you start being concious abt these things at University or vele you die ungazazi. If I was the Minister of Education I was goin to scrap of the ZPF history and introduce business studies at lower levels.

Thanx you very much.


What type of companies should I buy lets say I am in Zimbabwe where inflation levels can go up to 800% and where devaluation is a reality. I see we have companies like the insuarence giant Old Mutual, we have the Sout African cement company is it advisable to buy those counters? Infact in buying these so called shares what do I consider or its an issue that I just wake up and say I want to buy Cottco in Zimbabwe or I want to buy Colcom or there is some analysis which is supposed to be done. If there is some analysis then just give us the process flow mnumzane Lobengula. Once again thanx you very much for informative responses.

Lobs
Ngicabanga ukuthi ngabe uyasonta wena ngabe usonta izayoni noma one of these charaismatic churches, ngisho phela ngoba ukhuluma in tongues, angizwa lutho kulokhu okulobe ngaphezulu, it just sound like nice music to my ears, but i don't understand a word. Hk hk hk, bekungaba njani ubhale ngesiShona, uthi bakomana namadzimai imari ..........kanjalo kanjalo.

On a serious note, i really appreaciate the knowledge you dish to us free of charge.

Ariel Sharon lawe Sibamba

I coudn't agree with you more zinsizwa zakithi. Yes indeed these issues of finance, economics, investments and derivative transactions can and need to be discussed in our very own mother tongue siNdebele.

Ngamafitshane ngithi we need to start doing that khonalapha ekhaya. Izintombi kunye labasemzini bazasihlonipha only nxa bebona thina amajaha omkhonto sixoxa njalo sixukuzisa ugebhezi mayelana lezezimali ngaso isiNdebele.

Mina ngithi from now onwards I will be in the forefront of Ndebelising some of these issues.

Uyazi I think our vocabulary is to shallow but we can borrow some words from the RSA Zulu. In isindebele, you find it difficult to write a paragraph using Ndebele without any adulterated words especially when we talk of items which are a result of science. Talk of the radios, we know it as iwayilesi. Considering that things like wirelesses do not have a common Ndebele word, what about things like Derivatives. What can you call a derivative in isintu?

Asiqaleni khonala ukunikeza amabizo entweni zomkhonomi lezamabhizimusi. What can you call these things:

Balance sheet
Profit and loss account
Cashflow statement
Assets
Fixed Assets
Liabilities
Goodwill
Research and Development
Capital
debit
credit
How can you explain an accounting entry i.e. for every credit there is a debit


Kufuneka igama elilodwa or just two words or few nje

Ngibona umbuzo wami waswela impendulo hatshi ngilokhe ngimelele. Ncedani bo

Msupa

Perhaps you need to analyse the balance sheet of life first:

Balance Sheet Of Life

Our Birth is our Opening Balance
Our Death is our Closing Balance
Our Prejudiced Views are our Liabilities
Our Creative Ideas are our Assets
Heart is our Current Asset
Soul is our Fixed Asset
Brain is our Fixed Deposit
Thinking is our Current Account
Achievements are our Capital
Character & Morals, our StockinTrade
Friends are our General Reserves
Values & Behaviour are our Goodwill

Patience is our Interest Earned
Love is our Dividend
Children are our Bonus Issues
Education is Brands / Patents
Knowledge is our Investment
Experience is our Premium Account
The Aim is to Tally the Balance Sheet Accurately.
The Goal is to get the Best Presented Accounts Award.

Lobs

Lobs

Ngiyathaba kakhulu ngalesi sahluko senkundla. Ngilombuzo mfanakithi. Ngizothola ezikhatini ezinengi engiphongu sebenzisa imali njenge sela. Ngithi ngiya phaphama ngibone, ahh angisela nex. Ngingabona into enhle ngihle ngizwe inhliziyo isithi ngiyithenge, okunye kwakhona kucina kubola endlini ngingakusebenzisi.

Kukhona na iprogramme engingayenza engangenza ngibe le discipline ekusenbenziseni imali? Ngile nkinga, yomusa njalo mfowethu, ngenzeni ukuthi ngenze lowo oboleke imali, ukuthi ayilethe ngesikhathi esiqondileyo, kodwa nginga zange ngimbophise?

ngizwe omunye ujaha esithi, kungcono sihlanagnise imali, siyonge besesithenga izindlu, sifake ama loja azabe ethela inyanga zonke. Yi investment ele ngqondo na mfowethu? Ukuze nginga qilwa kumele ngenzeni?

Dok

Ngempela ngumbono omuhle kakhulukazi ukuthenga izindlu kwaBulawayo ufake amaloja. Khumbula mfowethu ukuthi indlu is a "fixed asset" whose value appreciates over time. So indlu is a very wise investment, far much better than keeping money under your mattress. Khumbula Dok ukuthi in 2000, a house in Burnside was priced at Z$200 000. Today the same house is well over Z$400 million. Now if you had Z$200 000 in 2000 and decided to bury it under your mattress, today the same money can only be enough to book you and your Rwandan Tutsi girlfriend a one night bed(no breakfast) at Manor Hotel!!!.

However the same house you bought in 2000 for Z$200 000 would have earned you monthly rental income from the loja (say you are renting it to the Duke of Leamington Spa Cde Potshoza and he is paying in Pounds say GBP 50 Pounds a month). Over 5 years that gives you (50Pounds x 60 months) GBP 3000 Pounds, converting that at today's exchange rate of Z$50 000 to 1Pound, works out to (3000 Pounds x Z$50 000)=Z$150 million.

Now in simple terms you would have earned Z$150 million from your royal loja Duke Potshoza. The story does not end here, you still have your property at Burnside, it is still owned by you and it is currently valued at Z$400 million. In other words if you decide to sell it to the Duke because now umfazi we Tutsi usekudlisile awusafuni ukubuya ekhaya eMagwegwe West, then you can immediately realise a sum of Z$400 miiliom, which you could add to your Z$150 million rental fees.

Your question relating to the ease at which you dish out money to the Tutsi women in East Africa is a tough one for me Dok. I think that the solution is to resort to our tried and tested Ndebele custom of being "ompondo kayintshintshwa". Get rid of credit cards, petrol cards, check books, ATM cards etc and put a few coins ku vethina (you know that little pocket between your trousers' zip and side pockets) or just put your money emasokisini and refuse to take it out under what ever circumstances. Nxa ufika ku braai just buy inyama encane eye one shilling njalo uhambe uphethe itswayi lakho kunye le bilebile (chillies) lakho to avoid buying these.
Hawu lapho ke you will have lots and lots of bucks baba Dok!!!!. But be careful, you might lose the Tutsi lady!!!!

I thank you mfowethu Lobs. Consider what you have said to be a revelation to me and taken seriously.

Lobengula

Uyazi its nice baing around people like you.

Ngake ngabala olunye ugwalo oluthiwa Rich dad, Poor Dad elika Robert Kiyosaki, insizwa yakhona ichasisa iinvestment ngendlela ehlukile, uyala yena ukuthi indlu is a good investment kodwa ma uyichasise ngale indlela ngibona kusengathi lapha indlu isuka ibe yi investment entle sibili. Mhlawumbe mina yimina engingam'tholanga kuhle

Kuyabongeka mnumzane. Umsebenzi wakho ukholise

Taking into account the turbulent economic environment in zim, the investment in property is surely wise. I do not know whether the "Mulamba-***** Operation" will end up affect those investments through careless demolition.

Sibamba

Indeed, 100%. This operation Muramba***** (I do not know why Sibalukhulu censors this word when abeTshabi use it without censure)will have a catastrophic effect on the economy. Not only do we already have a 40% recession or contraction of the economy but we also have a run away hyperinflation that is eroding people's savings, depleting their retirements endowments, undermining their pensions, vulgarising their fixed deposits, subjecting ordinary citizens under a back-breaking debt burden. Add to that the army of unemployed youth, adults and pensioners who have been reduced to being paupers in their own country, a country that they worked so hard for during their able-bodied years (the baby-boom generation). Unemplyment sitting precariously at more than 80% now with the destruction of small and medium enterprises.

The one and only effect of this dreaded operation of forced removals, destruction and erosion of small businesses is a fatal and suicidal action by a clueless gvt. The small and medium business operators will simply move their businesses to neighbouring Mozambique, Zambia, Botswana & South Africa. Talk about job creation in those countries. Mugabe is the most stupid leader to emerge out of modern day Zimbabwe.