Izibonelo!

We do not say ' kwanisa in isiNdebele but we say ukwenelisa . Ukukwanisa is a Shona word!

IsiNdebele esihle kasitsho lakancane ukuthi: ukuxotshanisa . Sona sithi ukuxotsha!

Mthembo,

Limqotho mnakwethu njalo kalivikwa. Kambe kungayini okubangela lokhu kugewuka kwolimi lwethu? Kungaba yikuba yiziphepheli emizini yabanye na? Kumbe yikuqungeka kwegazi osekudala ukuqungeka kwolimi? Yisikhathesi kumbe yibuqholo nje? Kuqakatheke kanganani ukugcina ulimi lwethu lumqoka lubalulekile?

Chair

I agree with you on "ukukwanisa", that is indeed a Kalanga word hence the derivatve names like "Kwanele" which are nonetheless now part of Ndebele because we agree that Ndebele is no longer pure Zulu/Xhosa, it is a hybrid of Nguni and Kalanga and elements of Sotho as well.

Meanwhile, "xotsha" is a verb

"xotshanisa" is a nown derived form "xotsha". You have names (nowns) like "Xotshiwe" or "Xotshwa" which are also derivatives extracted from "xotsha".

Angazi njalo, osaziwayo, izazi kunye labo cwephetshe kundimi (linguists) bahle basixazululele njalo bachaze kabanzi ngayo lindaba.

Lobs

Listen to this:

a)Bengixotshanisa uLobengula obentshontshe imali yami eRenkini

b) Bengixotsha uLobengula eRenkini ngoba etshontshe imali yami eRenkini!


Which one is appealing to you as true Ndebele?


OR

a) Lamuhla ngikwanise ukubhadala imali ebengiyibolekile kumfowethu

b)Lamuhla ngenelise ukubhadala imali ebengiyibolekile kumfowethu

Which one is appealing to you as a Ndebele?

I am not want to pretend ukuthi ulimi kalukhuli! nix mani!

Kuhle khona ukuthi siqondisane ngolimi lwethu, ngoba lokhu kuzokwenza ukuthi ulimi lwethu luhlale luqondile.

Kuleli igama elithi "ukuxotshanisa" ngithanda ukuvumelana loLobengula. Kunalokhu okubizwa yimpambosi(c), ezifana nempambosi zokwenza nokwenzisa etc. Noma ngingeke ngize ngisho ukuthi leli yisabizwana noma cha kodwa ngithanda ukusho ukuthi leli yigama eliqondile. Leli elithi ukuXOTSHA lingakwazi ukuchaza izinto ezimbili, okunye kwalokho is to "chase away" okunye is to "chase after"

Kuleli elithi Kwanisa kungaba kanjani leli elithi "ukwazi" Isibonelo:
UNomasa ukwanisile ukuvula umnyango.
UNomusa ukwazile ukuvula umnyango.

Chair

If you read my post carefully above, you will realise that Iam saying I actually agree with you on "ukukwanisa", it is indeed a Kalanga word which has been Ndebelised.

Chair, uzakhumbula ukuthi nxa "uxotshanisa" uLobhengula (not Lobengula hk hk), you are actually running after him , uyamgijimisa yena uyabaleka lemali yakho le ayintshontshileyo. Whereas nxa "uxotsha" uLobengula, the situation is a bit different here. You have a party Chair, celebrating Prof. Moyo's victory in Tsholotsho, Lobengula arrives uninvited, lapha sithi "uyamxotsha" emcimbini wakho lapho eligida khona laboSinatha litshaya imasikhukhu lesitshikitsha lijabulele ukunqoba kuka Moyo.

Omunye nxa ekubuza ukuthi kanti ubusenzani phandle Mthembozithembayo, uzathi wena "bengixotsha" uLobengula obe kade efuna uku gate crasher noma obefuna ukungena ngondloviyangena enganxuswanga.

Sibamba

I am yet to come across esiNdebeleni what is called 'Isabizwana sokwenzisa'

All i know from my Ndebele studies yikuthi kule mpambosi yokwenzisa . In that regard abantu bangake baxotshisane . It is either omunye uxotsha omunye and that is it

Yikho kanye ebengizama ukukutshela khona Chairman. Ilukhuthile ugatsha baba xola kulokho.

Kuhle mfowethu though it was grossly put down and never represented i-syntax yesiNdebele uqobo! Well tried!

In actual fact the majority of Ndebeles use kwanisa, and it is the more widely used synonym. Anelisa is the original word of the language, used mostly in formal language. Language purists argue that words like kwanisa are not Ndebele, yet people use such words more frequently than the original ones. Language revisionists contend that every language is dynamic and therefore borrows and grows, and that includes Ndebele. Therefore kwanisa is a Ndebele word, borrowed from Kalanga. Iam glad that the only Ndebele monolingual dictionary, Isichazamazwi SesiNdebele acknowledges language change and therefore new words that have become naturalised in the language are entered and defined.

Lobs Kwanele is derived from the simple verb anela, not kwanisa.

Samdala

Ngiyakuzwa mfowethu! Language can only grow when there is no alternative. If there is an alternative, it is not growth of the language but vandalism of the language wethu! I think this is the same with ' kwanisa word! The alternative is ukwenelisa and why not use the existing word and opt for a corrupted word? Hayi kabi madoda!

Ababengi baphambanisa ekuthini, uyezwa umuntu esithi "lina" kumuntu oyedwa.

Ngichasiselani ukuthi la ngama gama akithi na?

Indevu
Mbijana
ukuzama


Kanti ke lingitshele ukuthi yikuphi okuqondileyo, ukuthi "Igama lakho ngubani?" kumbe "ibizo lakho ngubani?".

Dokotela,

Every language has in its lexicon, synonyms and variants. It is up to the speakers and the language council to stipulate what is the standard and non-standard form of the language. Ibizo and Igama-are synonymous. Synonyms are different from variants in that they are morphologically different words which however mean the same thing. Synonyms can be original to a language. Some of them are loan words from other languages. Synonyms can be used interchangeably. Some of them are passive-i.e. words which are known, but not actively used by the speech community. Some are obsolete like umcephe, umlola, as opposed to the more active synonyms like umganu, isepa etc. Igama and ibizo are synonymous and are both equally correct.

Loan words that have enjoyed a high and stable frequency of usage over time, should be acknowledged and accepted in a language within reasonable limits. This is healthy for any language. Excessive puritanism has hindered the growth of a technical vocabulary in our languages.

The use of the borrowed honorific 'lina' with reference to older people as a sign of respect, is healthy. It is originally not part of the Ndebele forms of address, but this has changed due to the dynamism of language.

Dok

"Ukuzama" is indeed a Ndebele word extracted from its Nguni parents of Zulu and Xhosa. Those who are familiar with SA will remember the famous "Zama Zama " Game show in the 1990s.

"Igama" is the proper word to use in a Zulu context but in Ndebele "ibizo" seems to be more popular.
In Zulu if someone is calling you,it is said that "uyakubiza". Now by implication that means your name would have been announced eg Dokotela!! Dokotela!!. So in that respect ibizo seems to fit the situation very well.

"Lina" is a correct way of addressing older people usually parents and grand parents. Uzakhumbula Dokotela ukuthi Ndebeles are essentially a royal people. Khumbula ukuthi the British monarch eg Queen Elizabeth always uses the word "we" or "us" or "our" when ever she is referring to anything royal. It has a sense of inclusivity, collectivity and belonging.
Therefore when we say "lina" it invokes a sense of collective responsibility to those being addressed. A sense of joint and several decision making etc etc. When King Mzilikazi said that "we" have decided to attack the Shonas, you can not say "wena" Silo Samabandla ubona ingathi sizanqoba empini na?

Ibizo yigama lento esingayibona noma esingenakuyibona e.g. Isihlahla.
Kodwa nami ngithanda ukusho osekubekwe ngamanye amadoda, lamagama omabili (IBIZO and IGAMA) esiNdebeleni ayefana ncamashi angasetshenziswa ngokufana.

EsiZulwini leli elithi Igama lingasho izinto ezimbili 1) Word 2) Name.
Isibonelo segama: UNomsa

Yeyi bantu impambosi yokwenzana is indeed self explanatory. Yisenzo phela lesi. Ukwenza. Abantu bayabe besenzana.

Isibonelo: bayangana! bayenzana laba ababili! Omunye wenza omunye isenzo ngesikhathi esifanayo! sBayadlalisana emacansini! bayenzana emacansini!

Kodwa nxa sesithi: Ngizakuxotshanisa lamuhla, siyabe siyaphambuka kakhulu. Kungaphi ukwenzana lapha?

Therefore uyamxotsha omunye hatshi ukumxotshanisa! Yeyi bantu impambosi yokwenzana is indeed self explanatory. Yisenzo phela lesi. Ukwenza. Abantu bayabe besenzana.

Isibonelo: bayangana! bayenzana laba ababili! Omunye wenza omunye isenzo ngesikhathi esifanayo! sBayadlalisana emacansini! bayenzana emacansini!

Kodwa nxa sesithi: Ngizakuxotshanisa lamuhla, siyabe siyaphambuka kakhulu. Kungaphi ukwenzana lapha?

Therefore uyamxotsha omunye hatshi ukumxotshanisa! Yeyi bantu impambosi yokwenzana is indeed self explanatory. Yisenzo phela lesi. Ukwenza. Abantu bayabe besenzana.

Isibonelo: bayangana! bayenzana laba ababili! Omunye wenza omunye isenzo ngesikhathi esifanayo! sBayadlalisana emacansini! bayenzana emacansini!

Kodwa nxa sesithi: Ngizakuxotshanisa lamuhla, siyabe siyaphambuka kakhulu. Kungaphi ukwenzana lapha?

Therefore uyamxotsha omunye hatshi ukumxotshanisa! vYeyi bantu impambosi yokwenzana is indeed self explanatory. Yisenzo phela lesi. Ukwenza. Abantu bayabe besenzana.

Isibonelo: bayangana! bayenzana laba ababili! Omunye wenza omunye isenzo ngesikhathi esifanayo! sBayadlalisana emacansini! bayenzana emacansini!

Kodwa nxa sesithi: Ngizakuxotshanisa lamuhla, siyabe siyaphambuka kakhulu. Kungaphi ukwenzana lapha?

Therefore uyamxotsha omunye hatshi ukumxotshanisa!

uxolo umtshini usuke waphindaphinda umbhalo wami bakwethu!

Chairman Mthembo,

quote:

---

Kodwa nxa sesithi: Ngizakuxotshanisa lamuhla, siyabe siyaphambuka kakhulu. Kungaphi ukwenzana lapha?

Therefore uyamxotsha omunye hatshi ukumxotshanisa! Yeyi bantu impambosi yokwenzana is indeed self explanatory. Yisenzo phela lesi. Ukwenza. Abantu bayabe besenzana.

---

Mthembo the reciprocal verbal extension and intensive verbal extension are different. They are not one and the same thing. Kuqondile ukuthi umuntu athi-xotshanisa. Isenzo -xotshanisa asisimpambosi yokwenzana, siyimpambosi yokwenzisisa (intensive extension).

Isenzo -xotsha nxa sesiguquka sisiba yimpambosi yokwenzana (reciprocal extension) siba ngu-xotsh-ana. The suffix for the reciprocal extension is -ana, hence xotshana the resultant verbal extension. Yiyo le impambosi othi wena abantu bayabe besenzana.

Uxotshanisa yisiNdebele esiqondileyo njalo yimpambosi etshengisa ukuthi umuntu uxotsha omunye ngokumgijimisa (it is the intensive verbal extension). The verb -Xotsha does not necessarily include the element of ukugijimisa umuntu. Xotshanisa therefore has an added element of meaning denoted by the intensity of action, over and above the basic meaning of xotsha.

Yemadoda nabesimame aningitshele lana,sengizwa sekugqame igam elithi 'Thungamela', 'umthungameli',livelaphi leliganyana? Ngisola sengathi yiSiShona qobolwaso lesi esithi 'tungamira'.Engikwaziyo 'uMhholi', 'hhola','khokhela' 'uMkhokheli,Inkokheli'.Mhlawumbe yikundlondlobala nentuthuko yolimi ngokuthathela kwezinye ezilimi njengoba ephakamisile omunye ngaphezulu.Yizekunjalo ngibona sengathi akuqondanga ngoba sinawo amagama esiNdebele achaza lesi simo, besingeboleka, yebo, ukube alikho nhlobo igama elichaza ukuhhola.

Samdala

Hayikabi nxa ukuxotshanisa kasiyimpambosi yokwenzisisa!

Ukuxotshisisa becomes impambosi yokwenzisisa

Ngingazi mhlawumbe ngilahlekile!

Angivume ukuthi lezi mpambosi sengizikhohlwa bakwethu, kwazise isikhathi sesiside ngasuka esikoleni. Ukhona ongangikhumbuza ngale mpambosi yokwenzisa nxa ikhona, ukuthi kanti yona ihamba kanjani. angisho eyokwenzisisa, eyokwenzisisa ngisayikhumbula.

Impambosi yokwenzisa, wena webutho, ngikhumbula sengathi yileya mpambosi eyenza othile enzise othile into ethile, e.g bhalisa, khulumisa, khumisa,khombisa,xoxisa,xabanisa,klomelisa,.......,angazi njalo noma ngiphaphalizile seyiminingi iminyaka ngagcina esigela.

Jobe kaMatshana

Ngicabanga ukuthi lento okhuluma ngayo iqondile, angazi njalo, ngisho impambosi yokwenzisa. Akusho ke ucabanga ukuthi igama leli elithi ukuxotshanisa lalo lingaba ngeyokwenzisa na?
Yeyi ndoda eyokuthungamela angiyazi, sikhule lamagama omathathu esetshenziswa, thungamela, hhola lo khokhela. Lawa amabili sengiyawaqonda manje, kodwa leli elokuthungamela, hhayi cha.

Lawa ke amagama alandelayo bakwethu:
-Ihloka
-immenya
-

Sibamba,

Impambosi le okhuluma ngayo is it not the causative extension -which literally denotes causing something to happen e.g bophisa,(cause someone to get arrested), tshayisa (cause someone to get beaten), bhajisa, mithisa (cause someone to get pregnant). Mina lizangixolela ngoba amagama ezimpambosi ngiwazi kahle ngesingisi.

Uzananzelela ukuthi zikhona izenzo ezikhanya sengathi zizimpambosi kodwa zingasizo, njengesibonelo, loyisa, dlisa, tshayisa (knocking off from work),etc.

Bengicabanga ukuthi impambosi yokwenzisisa ilezakhi (suffixes) ezimbili, /is/, and /isis/. Akunjalo na?

Immenya-this is colloquial language meaning intombi. Lo yiwo umhlobo wamabala okungamelanga ungene kuStandard Ndebele.

Isenzo -thungamela, sivame ukusetshenziswa ngamaNdebele aweMidlands. Ngicabanga ukuthi sivela kusenzo -tungamira. Ngingazi njalo kumbe singabe sikhona lesisenzo kulimi lwesiZulu.

Impambosi le elikhuluma ngayo, yiyonto ezasenza selelise ukwenqabela ukuxhanxathwa kolimi lwakithi. Kumele siqale sihluze impambosi yalawo magama esizawatsho ukuze siqhubekisele phambili ulimi lwethu.

Ngolwazi lwe mpambosi, ngibona angathi igama elithi "xotshanisa", alakheki elimini lwesiNdebele. Amagama ongawathola nganjengabo xotsha {isenzo},xotshwa {impambosi yokweziwa}, xotshisa {eyokwenzisa}, xotshisisa {oyokwenzisisa}, xotshana {oyokwenzana}, xotshaxotsha {eyokwenzayenza}, [/B]xotshiwe[/B] {past tense}.

Yikho ke, singavumelana kulokho mfo Chairman, ngoba loba singalwangisa lesisenzo, akuphumi gama elilo "nisa". Kuyafana lokuthi sithi, hamba bese sisithi hambanisa.

Kubona kusobala lokhu.

As I was reading through the link below,It brought to mind this very topic engineered by Chairman and realised how languages are changing day by day :

http://www.witness.co.za/content/2005_05/33873.htm