ngiyethemba wonkumuntu wakoMthwakazi uyazi ukuthi sabandlululwa kusukisela i ZIM ithol' uzibuse, kuyangimangalisa ukuzwa umuntu ethu ukukhulul' uMTHWAKAZI yinto engalunganga esifananisa lo BNP, THINA SIFUNA UKUZIBUSASODWA. AKALIQUNYWE LELIZWEPHAKATHI, ngoba lababantu basempumalanga abasebenzekilabo khangela lamhlanje o tshangido sebezipha izihlalo, sebebullilizwe, babulala yonkinto,

ngiyalikhuthaza ukuthi asibambaneni silwise sizi khulule kulababantu basempumalanga

Evamacelz

Siyalibonga lelo wakwethu. Kantike lathi besesimangelukuzwa omunye lapha engena ngaleyondlela.

Hatshi siyabonga mntanesilo.

Bafowethu.

YOU HAVE TO HOLD ON TO SOMETHING, even if it is a Dream, or YOU WILL FALL FOR ANYTHING.

Li Zwangendaba.

At this day and age i think we shld start channeling our efforts and finite resourses towards action, being conservative will not help siyaze sife silokhu sisithi this and that kungani siyathengisa...we shld take a leaf from our FATHERS ,MOTHERS,SISTAS AND BROTHERS WHO WON THE LIBERATION STRUGLLE.Even the SOWETO uprising must a motivator their agenda was a free and democratic South Africa.Lokhu ukuthi abantu bebe lokhu bephikisana angiboni kusakha.....sizafana le ZANU ethi where they address pple they say,"Simurenga, maBritish,we've built 10 dams,thats all crap and i think abanye bethu we have still got that mind since our zim education was littered with that garbage...uzwe seku khulunywa ngo changamile labo mambho whilst thina sifuna ukuzwa about relevant issues that affect us daily, food, jobs, security, health, education, economy..lest we forget that this forum was not created to serve the same purpose as "letters to the editor"

Your definitions or understanding is too generalised so much that although it fits your explanations it however does not represent or is not a fair generalisation of what goes on in life. You, for example seem to be suggesting that the current issues are separate from the past and liberation struggle. let me inform you that had it not been the British choice to give Mugabe power at the expense of those who had fought the struggle whole heartedly 'abantwana benhlabathi' we would not have ended up with what we have. this is the first reason why our history must inform our current and future choices. Only a society with historians will make the same mistake twice.

You view of South Africa as a purely democratic country is not differenty from the view that an ordinary Shona person had of Mugabe during the Matebeleland Cleasing period. That view is media conditioned and thus dangerously limiting and containing. Some South Africans need to be careful otherwise they will play the game we have played in no time at all. All people and societies must, as a birthright establish themselves on earth, demand and get their identity and nation. Every society must go beyond what those who forcefully nature it to believe, and defy established orders in order to establish its own order and therefore develop in accordance with the potentials of its people.

You seem to say that those who have raised the points above are following a tribal agenda, no! You seem to suggest that the staff they write is more like letters to the editor, no! What you are writing is! No bad blood but facts!

Have you noted that most Ndebeles are not tribalistic but conscious, infact Shona people, who naturally are not tribalist have been turned tribalist by the 1980s propaganda. Everytime you raise a pertinent issues on matabeleland they say its tribalistic, because tribalists want to keep other tribes below them. Thats tribalism, multiculturalism is about knowing that other groups see things differently from you. And that they may even want to live differently from you and that they think you are wrong sometimes.

The basic problem with your article is that it is informed by 'unity'! Unity is tribalism, in which one tribe dominates the other! But multicuturalism is when all societies accept difragmentation at a certain level and cooperation and coexistance at other levels. So with you coming from the unity stable I think what we need to solve your bread and butter issues is to redifine who we are and agree that we are who we are and the problems of our society will never end until such a think happens. Until we are all allowed to critic others, either as individuals or as groups, and allow them to hold valid perceptions about us, and fairly index us.

I ask you to rethink what the worth of life is if its root is that you must accept who they say you are and not complain because if you do then you are a tribalist.

Have you ever asked yourself why, for example the current MP of Insiza who is also a junior minister has Shona speaking bodygourds? Its because in their terms he is still a dissident who should be checked on frequently!

Well I have gone over my limit!

Proud to be Ndebele and I expect a Zezuru to be proud to be and shout it on the edges of the earth, just like I would do!

Your definitions or understanding, of tribalism, is too generalised so much that although it fits your explanations it however does not represent or is not a fair generalisation of what goes on in life. You, for example seem to be suggesting that the current issues are separate from the past and liberation struggle. Let me inform you that had it not been the British's calculated choice to give Mugabe power at the expense of those who had fought the struggle whole heartedly 'abantwana benhlabathi' we would not have ended up with what we have. This is the first reason why our history must inform our current and future choices. Only a society with historians will make the same mistake twice.

Your view of the current South African politic, as a purely democratic country is not different from the view that an ordinary Shona person had of Mugabe during the Matebeleland Cleansing period. That view is media conditioned and thus dangerously limiting and containing. Some South Africans need to be careful otherwise they will play the game we have played in no time at all. All people and societies must, as a birthright establish themselves on earth, demand and get their identity and nation. Every society must go beyond what those who forcefully nature it to believe, want them to believe, and defy established orders in order to establish its own order and therefore develop in accordance with the potentials of its people.

You seem to say that those who have raised the points above are following a tribal agenda, no! You seem to suggest that the staff they write is more like letters to the editor, no! What you are writing is! No bad blood but facts!

Have you noted that most Ndebeles are not tribalistic but conscious, infact Shona people, who naturally are not tribalist have been turned tribalist by the 1980s propaganda. Everytime one raise a pertinent issues on Matabeleland they say its tribalistic, because tribalists want to keep other tribes below them, and in total and voluntary submission. Thats tribalism, multiculturalism is about knowing that other groups see things differently from you. And that they may even want to live differently from you and that they think you are wrong sometimes.

The basic problem with your article is that it is informed by 'unity'! Unity is tribalism, in which one tribe dominates the other! But multicuturalism is when all societies accept defragmentation at a certain level and cooperation and coexistance at other levels. So with you coming from the unity stable I think what we need to solve 'your bread and butter issues' is to redifine who we are and agree that we are who we are and the problems of our society will never end until such a thing happens. Until we are all allowed to critic others, either as individuals or as groups, and allow them to hold valid perceptions about us, and fairly index us.

I ask you to rethink what the worth of life is if its root is that you must accept who they say you are and not complain because if you do then you are a tribalist.

Have you ever asked yourself why, for example the current MP of Insiza who is also a junior minister has Shona speaking bodygourds? Its because in their terms he is still a dissident who should be checked on frequently!

Well I have gone over my limit!

Proud to be Ndebele and I expect a Zezuru to be proud to be and shout it on the edges of the earth, just like I would do!

Quick response to Sidlodlo and Sister H

While I respect your views on the diversities that are present within the Mthwakazi state,(as they are in any society, let alone state allover the world) I do not think they should be a reason at all for the people of Umthwakazi, at least those who want a separate state, to stop demanding and indeed have it. If another tribe wants a state they would also be within their right to do so. To stop them from doing so will be wrong and will be done using the same mechanisms that Mugabe uses and that will be wrong from inserption to finish.

It is not imagination it is reality. Let me offer you a definition of a state that is generally accepted world over. Infact for something to be called a state it should have four basic characteristic, and these are 1) geographic space - land, 2) a political system - government, 3)a population - it could be 70 000 as in Western Sahara and 4) some level of international recognition - this is not a strict necessity.

So if any group of people anywhere in this world can have these things they should be allowed to be independent, why stay with people who do not want to stay with you? Of course in doing so there most be reasonable considerations, note reasonable not forced considerations, thus I believe that even if the Mthwakazi state would degenerate it would do so to a reasonable level.

So the excuses are simple and limited to a common school of thinking that has no justification in either democracy or the science of nationhood and brotherly nationhood. In the interest of democracy such a debate should not be promoted because it is informed by oppression and domination principles. Its like 'so if we break away from the Zezuru dominated Zimbabwe will we be able to dominate other groups amongst us?' I hate this kind of thinking, in fact it should be 'if we break away will that encourage other groups to seek their own freedom if they feel oppressed?' That is the question I would rather ask!

I think we are back to sqaure one, is the Mthwakazi state necessary (realistic yes it is?) if so go for it if not how can we build a common nation within the current divide?

Son of Mthwakazi (dissident by the Mugabe defination and law loving and abiding citizen by nature)

Gay'gusu

Mfowethu ubeke kahle izimvo zakho kuyathokozisa imbala ukwazi ukuthi baningi ovulingqondo kwaMthwakazi,ngesingisi bathi "people like you are like a breadth of fresh air".Kuyabongeka mntwan'omhlabathi!

i beg to differ with ur opinion you seem to be attacking me as an individual and trying o to patronise me at the same time and there is no way am gonna fall for that. i f we differ in idealogies i think you got to persue your on way of thinking and stop trying to change my core beliefs. if you chose to dwell in the past by all means do so and when you get the results pls do foward them to us. dont tell me to open my mind , do the same with yours my friend. in my posting there is no tribalistic connotations or what so eva its only you who is trying to blend it in. ok fine hlala le history yakho and discard my ideas....but i think every body is entitled to their opinion so wena dont tell me what to say?multiculturisms what for?will you eva live to see that?kodwa i think you should be paying attention to what i said and critique it not make it up..

I respect your views and ideology and will always be bent on doing that at every corner, thus if in any of my writings I have waivered and shown something to the contrary , let me say it a mistake of language. I do not however apologise for a mistake I make without intention, but merely recognise it as such if it is there.

However I have not said in my article that you have been tribalistic in your writings. No I have said your writings depict a prejudiced school of thought, and that is what I make out of what you write. As a matter of fact you could as a result be an unaware tribalist, by your in built knowledges and perceptions of things.

There are as a matter of fact a lot of multicutural societies. And I do not need to live a lot longer to see that. Not to say that there are model multicultural societies, no! But they exist and are by far better than the 'unity' societies.

I therefore submit that I do not target you but your views I do react to but I respect them though. You however have no reasonable right to hold on to ideas that don't work because they are yours, I would not do that! But no one has the right either to tell you that. People who enjoy that right are refered to in strange names but I would not use such strange names because they are retrogressive. Words like dogmatic and naive are used, but for fear of bieng misunderstood and because I do not yet have a personal relation with you, yet, I would not use them. Which I hope we can build!

I will read further on unity and see if it works but from what I see, the world has even moved from the so called governments of national unity to call them coalition governments, this is to depict inherent differences and to respect them while having a nation of equal people. Not the enequality, oppression and abuse that's embedded in 'unity'

So my friend I am a tribe, and I make not apology for that, and you can can not unite tribes because by their nature they are different but they can live side by side in peace. Thats is not unity but multitribalism if you do not like the word multicuture!

I am not Mthwakazian by choice but I defend bieng such by violent choice!


Thank you for the discourse, it is only this way that we grow!

Maqhamelizi

Mfowethu kasakheni isizwe sakwethu, and build based on the uniqueness of its citizens and its people!

Gay'gusu.
I just want to draw your attention to my understanding of the gist of Tallman's posting. In a nutshell, I think he is basically calling for action, hence he gives the Soweto uprising as an example. I think his reference to " letters to the editor" means he thinks we have become just a talk shoip.

Otherwise the rest of your posting is indeed a breath of fresh air

Mthwakazi omuhle,akelibale lapha lizizwele.

http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/gukgenocide16.13763.html


New Political Party Formed In Bulawayo
Wednesday, February 15 2006 @ 09:03 AM GMT
Contributed by: correspondent
A new political party has been formed in the second city of Zimbabwe, Bulawayo. The Patriotic Union of Matabeleland, (PUMA) is expected to formally announce its agenda early in March. At the moment, officials remain tight-lipped over their political intentions citing security concerns. The new political outfit, fronted by a group of civic leaders and political activists from Matabeleland and Midlands provinces, is set to represent the interests of the provinces which have remained largely undeveloped. Ndebele speaking people are the majority of the inhabitants of the region.

President Robert Mugabe, a Zezuru heads a cabinet dominated by ministers from his tribe, fuelling disgruntlement from politicians from other tribes. Among a host of nagging problems in Matabeleland, water remains critically short and plans by the Zanu PF government to undertake the Zambezi Matabeleland Water project have not succeeded.

Former Zimbabwe Teachers Association Leader (Zimta) leader, Leonard Nkala, is reported to have set up a 45-member executive committee, which will spearhead the launch of PUMA. Former Zanu-PF Bulawayo spokesperson, Sikhumbuzo Ndiweni, who is the party’s interim secretary general, said they were also working on the establishment of external wings, one focusing on Southern Africa, and another on the rest of the world. “We are currently working on setting up our structures, but everything would be complete on time for the official launch.

Some of our members are drawn from the ruling party, as well as both factions of the MDC. The interest from the diaspora is also very overwhelming,” said Ndiweni. A source in the party said PUMA’s promoters felt that they could capitalise on the fact that people in the area still had fresh memories of an 80’s crack military operation code named Gukurahundi.

The operation conducted by the Zimbabwe’s North Korean trained Fifth Brigade, left an estimated 20 000 civilians dead as soldiers sniff out a few dissidents who operated in the area. Up to now survivors of the operation have not been compensated and this remains a major source of disgruntlement. Zimbabwe’s main opposition party, the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) draws the bulwark of its support from this region. Officials of PUMA have in the past few weeks held meetings with students at universities and teachers colleges. The new party joins the fray at a a time when MDC is threatened with a split.

source:zimdaily.com

Manje Malimaza ususitshiya silengile ungasasitsheli ukuthi uthini ngalokho!

Iarticle ebhalwe ngumasalad we newzimba ngivumelana layo ngoba imbono yakhe to me kukhanya angani ukhulumela kundaba yefedarism.Ngathi ngikhuluma lelinye itshabi lathi kimi lina mandebele nxa lisesebancane sifuna ukuthi singakhula siyegoli.Ngathi ngimbuza ukuthi uyakwazi na ukuthi yindaba abantu bengazizwa ubuzimba njalo bebona ama opportunities ekhona khonale egoli?Wehluleka ukungiphendula.Lina liyibona njani imbono kamasalad lowu.


Indaba yePUMA ngokubona kwami is a right move torwards matabeleland pple taking issues that affect us in the open and the good thing is that abanye bethu abase diaspora siyafuna ukuncedisa on that issue.

I have moved into the depth of the political synagogues and wilderness in Zimbabwe, I am sure that it looks like sooner than latter abantu bakoBulawayo will rise to the occassion and make a difference but before I get into this with depth let talk about PUMA.

I have person reservatiion about the people in PUMA, I kow most of those mentioned above in person! (Which may and may not be a good thing to raise) Firtsly I must say looking at the situation in Zimbabwe, PUMA may infact be something set up to whip the anger of the people of Matabeleland and leave them hopeless and finished in the end. How this can happen can be explained in another article. But The long and short of it is that it could be a pre-emptive strike by the ernemy intelligency. If one knows how pre-emptive strikes work they will understand what I mean. Second, the respectable Nkala is a pusilanimous polititian, if he is one? He infact is a 'prostitute' (this word is used within its contextual meaning not the denigratory common meaning) of chance in political language.

I can almost gaurantee that, unless Nkala has been transformed in the past two years then this is not a joke. But Nkala however enjoys an aray of experience in the contemporary street politics not only of Bulawayo but the whole country. His other major setback is that he is not an activist and has little charisma. He is a man of rules, bieng a former Headmaster and is therefore not innovative!

About PUMA itself the timing is right! But the society is not ready! We need to have a radio station in Matabeleland Broadcasting from outside and prepare opur people. We need to remove them from the fear and hopelessness they have in themselves that the genocide and Nkomo ZAPU left them with. We need a people driven process rather than a leader driven process in Matabeleland. We need the people to believe that the time has come!

Once I again I submit that the main reason why we should not waste our time and resources on PUMA is that no revolution will result from it, in fact it will cost us a few friends and activists.

Bakwethu the effectiveness of this www site is that information is shared and we therefore strnghten each other and thus how critical information sharing is. Thus a radio station targeting Matabeleland will be the key.

I shall not rest until we have built our capacity to shape the minds of our people, to re-educate them on who they are. To make understand once omre that they are a people and have a right to be themselves.

I will better die knowing who I am than live on my knees, believing who they say I am!

Malimaza Sikhulu,

I have not enough time to discuss this issue today but i must tell you that I am thrilled by your willingness to get into some action this soon. I know tha abantu abka-diaspora can make a big difference. But I can alsop comfirm that before we do so the Shona will have made a bigger difference, not because they work hard but because they do the right things. I am only trying to bring to the debate arround setting up a Sort Wave Broadcast to Matabeleland.

This should carry on our discussions at this forum and in other forums! The bondage of subhuman status of our people will not allow them to make change until that bondage is removed. And the only way to remove it is to reinform our people about being Matabele and that it is not wrong to be such.

So a Political party before conscioussness is a baby game! A political party tapes into the people's understanidng of issues, not the other way. That is why although the people of Matabeleland were presented with ZAPU 2000 they voted overwhelmingly against Mugabe but for another party run by a Shona person, instead of a small but home grown party which I am sure if it had managed to send one person to parliament, then the structure and content of the debate in Zim Parliament would have been different by today.

The general Matabele people fear voting a Matabele who says he is Ndebele. They would now vote for anyone else against Mugabe as long as that person does not have a clear Ndebele bais. Yet they must associate with their Tom and Jerry, Keth and Kin but no, they view this as wrong and unacceptable. Its a thin line that we need to remove through information and our people will rise again.

Please consider my thoughts. I have not organised my thoughts properly now and written them properly but I hope you can make sense of the gist of this writing.

this is what an average shona thinks about us(this was a response by a shona to the PUMA article):

Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 16 2006 @ 10:12 PM GMT

Why do you have to believe all this nonsense that you read, there are good sources of information and the rubbish sources of information. You are quite intelligent to distinguish the two. Mandevere havana mari hama yangu, even Lovemore majaivava your fellow Ndebele bretheren said he could not live and perform in Bulawayo because hamuna mari. Can you compare any other part in Mashonaland with Kezi, Tsholotsho, Ngungubane, Lupane. My friend you have to see the situation on the ground not all this nonsense. Some idiot was saying Shona steal in banks and the like, isn't his bread jammed and buttered. What of the the Ndebele thugs in south africa who Rob and terrorise fellow black people. Its time for you to wake up and you have to bear with us the Shonas that we would always be a step ahead whether you like it or not. Open your eyes guys, you are secondary citizens of the land. First Chimurenga, Second Chimurenga, Gukurahundi yokutanga, yechipiri is imminent. As I have said before Bring it on. There are a lot of arms dealers in the world, bring it on anyday anytime and Parence Shiri would still be waiting along with all the Zanu Pf thieves and thugs.
As for the fellow who said, we can't even speak Ndebele,shame on you, why shold we. With my Shona I am still sh***ing Ndebele girls for mahara and they are cheap.

Tendesai

Gay'gusu
I concur with most of your PUMA analysis, your analysis is a breadth of fresh air. As you said that there is a possibility of a pre-empitive strike in play, i do agree with you, but my concern is that maybe we are becoming too much of analysists than activists, we are quick to see doom in every initiative by Mthwakazians, why do not we encourage each other to closely watch for the developments or actually encourage ourselves hijack the idea if possible or influence it to an extent.
We would not be genuine if let one idea hold the struggle back, none theless i fully i agree with your idea of a radio station broadcasting into Mthwakazi from abroad, but this can be used to reinforce what others have already started. It is not true that the people of Mthwakazi are completely empty and devoid of what they are and what they want. A level of consciousness exists in Mthwakazi we do not need to create it from the scratch but to rekindle the fire. If you are prepared and serious about your proposition of a radio station contact me in private and let us take it from there.

just picked it up for ur info.

Harare - President Robert Mugabe has urged Britain's new envoy in Harare to report "true facts" about Zimbabwe to help rebuild relations between the Southern African nation and its former colonial ruler, state media reported on Friday.

But analysts cautioned against optimism that Mugabe's gesture, and his government's clearing of debt arrears to avert possible expulsion from the International Monetary Fund, signalled a readiness to ease its strained ties with the international community.

Relations between Mugabe's government and that of British Prime Minister Tony Blair have been frosty in the last six years due largely to charges from the West that Harare has violated human rights and rigged polls since 2000.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mugabe denies the charges and says London has championed a propaganda campaign against his administration mainly over its forcible redistribution of white-owned farms to blacks.

Violation of human rights
"President Mugabe has openly told incoming British ambassador to Zimbabwe Dr Andrew Pocock to report true facts about the situation in the country to his government to help build bridges between the two nations," the official Herald newspaper said.

"If you report as your government wants, why send you here? We want you here to help construct formidable bridges. We need a bridge with the British. We politicians come and go, but the people are there at all times," the paper reported Mugabe as telling Pocock.

The Herald story came a day after Mugabe's government announced it had made a $9-million (about R55-million) payment to clear its long-standing arrears on the IMF's General Resources Account, which had raised the possibility of Zimbabwe's expulsion.

But analysts warned it was premature to suggest Harare was actively working to shed its pariah status.

"What Mugabe is saying is nothing new and is insincere. He has made similar statements before and not stuck to them and it is also very clear that he still believes he has never been wrong," said James Jowa, an independent economic and political commentator.

'Help build bridges'
"Even the IMF payment is nothing much to cheer about because nothing on the ground has changed, the government's policies are still lopsided and the economy is still in trouble," Jowa added.

Mugabe, 82 next week and in power since independence in 1980, denies that he has mismanaged and ruined the country's once-thriving economy.

The veteran leader says Western sanctions aimed at Zimbabwe's ruling elite have hit everyone, leading to chronic shortages of foreign currency, fuel, spiralling unemployment and the world's highest rate of inflation at 613 percent.

"You are not punishing Zimbabwe, but you are also punishing your own people, your own economy," the Herald quoted Mugabe as saying to Pocock, alluding to the scores of British-owned companies that still operate in Zimbabwe.

Critics say disruptions to commercial agriculture linked to Mugabe's land reform programme have compounded the problem of drought, leaving what was once southern Africa's food basket in need of food imports in the last six years.

Quite an interesting analysis from Gay'gusu. Who knows? Asiyekeleni ivule umqhekezo ke iPUMA with their supposed pre-emptive strike and re-kindle the consciousness of the Ndebeles.Izavela nxa ithunywa yi ZPF iPUMA ngoba bazakuba lemvumo to organise and assemble people in a mannner not possible in the most recent past among other obvious assessments of course. Labantu bazasola. I can not put a pre-emptive strike past ZPF either!!

Mthwakazi state is far from convincing me as a reality but a dream bantu bakithi...

If i might not be dreaming..,ngicela abekhona ozangilaya, njalo angitshele ukuthi kuyini uMthwakazi azakwenza ukuze lathi amaNdebele kumbe uzulu weMatabeleland asuke esitshoneni lesi...

Ngizathaba bakithi...

Mzala

Gaygusu mfowethu uyihlaziye kamnandi indaba yakho ngakho zihlobo asisondeleni eduze siyitshuke sibanengi sivule amehlo sibuye silalelisise.

MTHWAKAZI OMUHLE NGICELA SINANZELELE NJALO SINGAPHAMBULWA NGABANTU ABAFUNA SIKHULUME NGODABA OLULODWA KUSUKELA KUZIBANDLELA SIZE SIYEFIKA KUMPALAKAZI.INENGI LITHATHA UKUHLUPHEKA LIKWENZE INHLEKISA.

Liyibona njani indaba ye MDC the prosenate faction who have decided to ask another shona to be their leader?Yindaba thina sithanda ukufaka abetshabi ezikundleni zokuba ngabathungameli bethu?Is that we like to be led or we r used to being led?Is it possible for us to change this mentality?

http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/senate136.13779.html

Mina ngithi Mthwakazi for life ngikhala ngomcele.

So much for the Mthwakazi element of this mdece having woken up and smelt the coffee? The difference between the pro-senate faction and that dimwit Thoko is the same!

As I have always asserted, this mdece is a non-event in my life and so is anything nor trick they get up to.

Mpthu!

Seeing that the subject of this discussion is headed "Tribal politics --- "I would like to exhaust this topic and then see how we can defend ourselves from who say we are tribalist. I will say a little in response to the question as to why the Mthwakazian MDC has chosen to have Arthur as its leader!

Firstly, I will address the questions as what a tribalist is or what tribalism is. Tribalism is not allowing people who want to different from you to be different. I will give an illustration! If I say Ndebele people will never rule Zimbabwe, many people will blend me a hopeless tribalist, both from the Shona and Ndebele sides. The question is why and what do they mean. They look at how things are and they can tell for sure and that is why Arthur has been brought in.

I will finish this now I have to call my mother have a message she is in hospital

Ngilusizi ngomama ongezwa kahle, sengathi angasila. Angasila phela ungalibali ukuqedisa ingcazelo le okade usasiphakulela yona!

lakanye waze wabheda lumfana.kutsho mina omunye wezinduna zabesuthu, mina uPUDI PEDI[mbuzimbili]. it seems to me that you do not understand what UMTHWAKAZI is. i suggest that you should do your research on a subject before ungakakhulumi wejaha. as said before me 'we shall succeed with or without you'

ps;since your last post in 2006, i would assume that you have changed your mind.if not, then ulahlekile mfana wekhaya!
phendula sikuzwe gwalandini

Hunger knows no gender!
Hunger knows no tribe!
Poverty too is indiscriminate!
Tribalism creates victims and loosers (no winners) - the lamentations of those that have dorned the cloak of victimhood are forever on displayed on this site

Africa is in the quagmire that it finds itself in as a direct consequence on tribalism be it in politics and many other walks of life.

It is either this question is posed in jest or some form of misguided mischief making or indeed both. In either case the answer is resounding nO with a capital "O".

UNITED WE STAND!

Spoken like a cretin.

indeed matebeleland will be an independent state one day. kungani kukhanya angathi we are too ashamed to be who we are; that is ndebele! i for one am not.

hunger knows no yari yari yari.....blah blah blah

i will tell you what, it is no crime to want to be the master of my own destiny. that way i can take myself and my own people seriously, unlike some people we know, who threw our fathers into bottomless pits for no sensible reason.

and yes, if i make my own self go hungry, then i have no one esle to blame, have i?

get that????????????????

mthwakazi omuhle, mina Zulu boy sengiphendukile. Ngilusizi sengitshintshe igama ngaba ngu Maphisa72 becoz of log in problems. Thanks 4 all the insults received but am afraid am still waiting for a constructive posting in response to the 'controversial' topic. Pliz I need a responce from someone who will give me a detailed agenda ka Mthwakazi if any! pliz ncedani bakwethu!

Spoken like a cretin, whatever that means, but you sound like a cretin.

from zulu boy to maphisa72,73,74.....79 whatever

madlenya lo mbuzimbili, why do u waste space writing useless and frivolous material enkundleni? w***ers!! If u got nothing to say, keep your smelly mouth shut and continue............w****ng, of course!

Comrade Potshoza - comrade because that is the moniker that you used to moonlight under. Also interesting to nore is how like Robber Mugabe you have dropped this comrade nonsense. But as they say a leopard never changes its spots and you sir, are the epitomy of that. You must be congratulated and admired that after all these years yours remains a concrete like mind - all mixed up and permanently set!!
The truth of the matter is that tribal politics is not the answer to the Zim crisis - the fact that we have had 27 or so years of it proves that it is a cul de sac to the land of no return. I repeat, for the benefit of the myopic, ignorant and downright dull ( I guess that means you Potshoza), that what is required is blue skies thinking and tredding the path of tribal politics is old and will not lead to peace and prosperity.

I Montenegro, with just over half a million people is a fully independent state. Thina, on a conservative estimate we should be about four million people.There is absolutely no reason why we cannot be fully independent.Okwe MDC lokhu yingcekeza kuphela.Asitshiyane lakho.We need to put our case to the United Nations and make our argument that we are different people from abetshabi.Nxa abanye abanntu besenelisa ukukwenza lokhu thina kungasehlula njani?

Jazi, what you have posted is what I call Idealism. I and many others also subscribe to this idealism but unfortunately realities on the ground and in real life tell a different story. You want unity, thats the ideal, but have you ever asked yourself the following?

1. The 1979 Grand Plan. This document did not just drop from the skies. Somebody must own up and accept responsibility for authoring it. Who wrote it? why is it that what is detailed in the document is what has happened in the last 27 years and is still happening on the ground in Mthwakazi, if at all its a false document?

2. Why do most Shona, many whom you want to unite with are defensive about the document and yet they claim to be anti-Zanu PF and anti-Mugabe. This is supposed to be a Zanu PF document and not necessarily a Shona document, so if one is not a Zanu PF supporter why defend it? If one is an MDC supporter, why defend a document authored by those in Zanu PF or be defensive about it?

3. Why is there so much intolerance among many Shona people whenever we Ndebele people speak our language and yet we allow them to use their language at will without complaining? Many of our people now struggle to speak their nown languages because of their Shona being forced down everyone's throat on the basis of the "majority"?

4. Why is it that many Shona, even in the opposition still tacitly approve of the Gukurawundi in the name of revenging the Mzilikazi era tribal clashes when it suits their agenda, and at times contradict themselves in saying it was meant to put down a military insurrection in M'tland against a legitimate and democratic government, but will conveniently use Gukura again when it suits them to attack Mugabe because he has now also turned against them, in order to gain Mthwakazi support?

5. It seems to me Mugabe is ONLY bad now because he also attacks the Shona and has made them suffer as well; but as long as he attacks, starves, and kills the Ndebele ONLY he is fine? what do you say about this?

6. What about the issue that a person of Mthwakazi origins will never be a President of Zimbabwe, is that not tribalism? Why are Mthwakazi people always expected to deputise Shona people, if at all appointments and elections are based on merit? The Shona argue that the Shona take up leadership positions because they are in the majority, but Merit is not synonymous with mojority. This is why Daniel Arap Moi was a President of Kenya despite him coming from one of the smallest tribes in Kenya, the Kalenjini, and Thabo Mbeki is the President in South Africa, but he hails from a smaller tribe the Xhosa as opposed to the majority tribe the Zulu who are about 10 million, far more than three quarters of Zimbabwe's overall population.

7. What about the constant argument that we should go back to South Africa as if to say they the Shona were created by God to be settled in that country and never re-located from elsewhere, is that not tribalism, is that UNITY?

8. The Shona are the only people I know of in Southern Africa, who have a problem with people whose roots are South African and I dion't know why, maybe you can enlighten me. I have lived in many countries that border South Africa and I can assure you that the Shona are the only excpetion. In Southern Mozambique there are Zulu and Shangani speaking people, languages also spoken in South Africa but this is not an issue, in Mpumalanga province South Africa, isiSwati is spoken, a language spoken in Swaziland but that is not an issue, in the Free State Province we have the Basotho, people also found in Lesotho and that is not an issue. In the North West Province of South Africa they speak Setswana, a language spoken in Botswana and still thats no problem. In Namibia, there are Afrikanners and Afrikaans speaking people but nobody says they are foreigners and should go back to South Africa. Then what is wrong with the Shona in Zimbabwe? They don't want the Shangani, the Basotho,the Nguni, the baVenda, etc because they are said to be South African. And what about people of Malawi origins, they call them names, maBrandaya, and yet many of the Shona have some Malawi and or East African heritage? so much for unity mfowethu!

9. And what about this issue of them living in Mthwakazi for 10, 15, 20 years and still claim not to understand or to speak siNdebele or any other langauge for that matter. Many of them are even married in Mthwakazi but still will not learn the languages? They discourage their Ndebele wives from speaking Ndebele in their homes or teaching the children the language and yet for many Ndebele I know married to Shona women, these women speak Shona at will and even teach the children with no problem?

10. Even were friendships are concerned,I have always found that it is difficult, if not impossible to befriend a Mushona or relate to a Shona without speaking his language. Why is that? For many of us with Shona friends you will admit that the language of communication between us is almost always Shona, why? If one insists on his identity, his own language etc as they do here in South Africa,I can assure you they would not be any relationship; Only in very, very few and exceptional cases!

Yikho ke Jazi mfowethu leUNITY okhuluma ngayo, yi UNITY on whose terms? It seems to me we can only unite if we follow the Zanu/Zapu type of unity, were we always have to play second fiddle. As you can see, this is why the Ndebele always deputise the Shona. And for many of our people (and it pains me a lot) this has become second nature as we now almost have accepted it as normal. Can you imagine some years past I was in Gweru one time and I spoke to a petrol attendant in SiNdebele asking him to put petrol in my vehicle and some of my fellow Ndebele I was with were purtebed that I was speaking to him in Ndebele; as if it has become taboo to speak to a Shona in SiNdebele! Our people have internalised this problem , developed inferiority complexes and totally forgot that their languages and cultures are constitutionally protected in that country and should be used anywhere anytime, even in Harare as much as Shona is!

Put your foot down, you don't have to speak to a Shona in Shona. It is not a crime to speak your language! SO MUCH FOR THIS SO-CALLED UNITY MFOWETHU!

Spade Onmyama

ungazabe usaya le e-Montenegro khatshana,

"Eritrea [which has roughly the same population ekaMthwakazi] was awarded to Ethiopia in 1952 as part of a federation. Ethiopia's annexation of Eritrea as a province 10 years later sparked a 30-year struggle for independence that ended in 1991 with Eritrean rebels defeating governmental forces; independence was overwhelmingly approved in a 1993 referendum." -extracted from http://www.nationmaster.com/country/er-eritrea

one other interesting fact (unverified) is that 2/3 of all Eritreans are in the diaspora, or at least 3/4 of its economy is supported by money from the diaspora.

lokhu kuyafana lento esikhuluma ngayo lapha. our cowards like the ones we have here will follow us everywhere. but the fact is akekho umuntu ozakuwa emkhathini ezosikhulula. recent history is flowered with evidence of successful rebellion against unjust and tyrannical regimes, (illegitimate as well, one might add). we only have to remind ourselves of the Indonesian revolution (1998), the Orange revolution (2004-2005), etc. laba ngabantu abazinikelayo ukuba ngama-masters of their own destiny. and yes, they are free today, including Eritreans, Jazi

Vunguza,

Wayitshaya ekhanda, wethu!Spoken like a true son of Mthwakazi!Abetshabi asitshiyane labo.That is our only salvation.