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#1872 - 04/18/05 03:35 PM COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Busobenyoka Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Bulawayo
Mthwakazi,

Ngicabanga ikusasa kaMthwakazi, ngiyazibuza ukuthi nga icolonialism is still at work but in a different guise?

Does anyone realize that the UK system wants every foreigner coming through its shores to be a nurse, care worker, general hand etc but nothing productive? And I concede nurses, etc do a sterling job and help their relatives back home.

But can anyone imagine what will be if one day kungathiwa bonke abaku exile babuyele kibo.

A nation of nurses only??? And to complete the injury these are the jobs they dont want themselves. There is no future in this and its only a question of time before this thing comes to haunt us.

Lithini Mthwakazi?

Buso

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#1873 - 04/18/05 04:13 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Muntongenakudla Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 653
Loc: Mtubatuba
Busobentaca

Nami I've often sat down, pondered and asked myself: Eintlik wat gaan hier? Why bonke laba bantu bephelela kwi-nursing profession? Why izifiso zabo zi limited to ukuba ngama-nurses? Why iningi lise ma-factory? Why oboshman? Abadala nabancane - konke!

Namanje ngisadidekile.

The last straw came when I heard that one ex-UZ graduate ebe ngimthembile as a bright star, upon hitting the shores of Her Imperial Majesty's land, for all the esteemed BSc Economics Honors degree anayo, he just went straight into enrolment at the nearest nursing college. Sikhuluma nje namhlanje he's a proud, qualified practicing nurse - washed clean of all the technical demand vs supply aspects of his BSc Econ. Bathi akasafuni kuzwa nix nge Economics. Even his political perspectives are clouded and stunted by his nursing courses. Shame umuntu wenkosi.

Sad, sad. Dreadfully sad indeed.

Uma ngizwayo, bathi in England, if you throw a stone kwixuku labantu bakwaMgakla, you're 99.999% likely to hit a nurse. That is, if not a bosh man, a factory worker or loyo owasha izintothololo!

Awu mzwakwethu, naphenduka ama-nurses amaningi kangaka! Sowathini ama-nurses ayinqwaba kanje? Nashidaba nonke nje!

uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa
Ngiphum’ ezansi Ongoye
Umful’ engiwuphuzayo – ngiphuz’ uThukela – umful’ osh’ izikhawu!
Ngiyinkwali yenkosi
uMashukumbela
uVeyane
uMtubatuba
umcondo yegusha

Inxangiphilile
KwelikaMthaniya

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#1874 - 04/18/05 04:20 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Msupatsila Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 656
Loc: Solongo Life
mmmmhhhhhh.

Mina zwiii

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#1875 - 04/18/05 04:45 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Lobengula Offline
Nkosi
*****

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1077
Loc: Tsholotsho
Busobenyoka

quote:
A nation of nurses only??? And to complete the injury these are the jobs they dont want themselves. There is no future in this and its only a question of time before this thing comes to haunt us.

This is the most irresponsible statement I have ever read ever since I joined this forum. This is even more painfully because this statement is uttered by a leading opinion maker in our forum. A respected forumite imbued with honour and wisdom.

Hatshi mfowethu, this is not productive at all. This is an attempt to poison and polarise relations between our people. This is exactly what we were talking about under the topic "Amakwerekwere" that our own people are very much guilty of despising and rubbishing other people's occupations, qualifications and preferences in life.

If our brothers and sisters decide to venture into nursing as a profession, that is very good. We can not all be rocket scientists or lawyers specialising in defending rapists. We can not all be bishops or aircraft engineers knowing that there is only one or two operational aeroplanes in Zimbabwe.
If our parents choose to be child-minders or waiters or garden workers in tough UK or SA conditions we can not parade here in high horses and pour scorn and derision at them. That is unacceptable. We must respect our people so that we also earn respect. We can not cry foul when the SA call us "Amakwerekwere" and yet when we take a corner we call our own people names.

We can not all be Tsholotsho MPs either. We can not all be tax specialists, we cant all be teachers for that matter. Variety is the spice of life, they say.

Do you remember Mugabe's "independence" speech last year where he also lashed out and rubbished our people for what he termed: "cleaning elderly whites' backs in Britain" ? Needless to say immediately thereafter Gono was on the podium with a begging bowl grovelling(korovela) for foreign currency from the same diaspora people that are "cleaning white people's backs"!!!. That his Homelink scheme is meeting resistance from these people is not surprising at all.

In conclusion, I think this is a very stupid thread, which does not promote unity and/or interchange of ideas. Nursing is an honourable and respected profession. It deserves better than such shody treatment. Come on guys, we have people in the nursing profession who are offering very very very good advice to us on health issues and life saving ideas in this very forum under the "Healthcare online for Mthwakazians". This in my opinion is the most important thread than all the hot air exhaled by mavericks here masquarading as "keyboard political analysts". Ubaba uSibalukhulu must show his teeth by removing this thread without much ado.

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#1876 - 04/18/05 04:51 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
kaMjaji Offline
Nduna

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 329
Loc: ESkwakweni
Asizenzi
Ekhaya akulamsebenzi. Lapha kungeneka ngobu-nurse. Pho sihlale nje ngoba it doesn't suit umthwakazi in the future? We might not be as gifted but we fill that we can contribute in whatever small way and are proud of it.

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#1877 - 04/18/05 05:21 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Ndabezitha Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 268
Loc: T.O
[Confused] [Embarrassed] [bigcry]

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#1878 - 04/18/05 06:21 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
nomandebele Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 10/25/03
Posts: 150
Loc: uk
Hmm indaba yabo Nurse le iyahlupha. Ye akuyisiyonto embi sibili ende mina ngithi kulabo abakwenzayo good luck. Akusibo bonke abantu abalahla amaprofessions abo benga fika KoEliza. i am a Zimbo based in the Uk and mina i chose to do Audiology ende e uni engikiyo bagcwele abakithi abenza loads of different zinto. Futhi njalo banengi e ngibaziyo abalemisebenzi ezwayo, like in IT and or dokotela, emabank, teaching and the like. Into eyenza ukuthi abongikazi babe banengi kakhulu yikuthi linga khohlwa phela ukuthi ekhaya ubongikazi bezwiwa ngokupasa i O level. Dont get me wrong im not saying ALL the zim nurses abala O Level but i number ingezelwela yi access!So in other words bakithi kuyinto enhle ukuthi sisazimisele ukufunda to better our selves.Anyway these days akusela kuphonguza nje uvela ekhaya ufike ube ngustudenti mongikazi. Ivisa ka Tony ayisa convetheki!

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#1879 - 04/18/05 09:33 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Mthoko Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 238
Loc: G Skweya P.O Box Loxion
quote:
Originally posted by Mntongenakudla:

Uma ngizwayo, bathi in England, if you throw a stone kwixuku labantu bakwaMgakla, you're 99.999% likely to hit a nurse. That is, if not a bosh man, a factory worker or loyo owasha izintothololo! [/b]

Liqiniso lelo olitshoyo Muntuonokudla.
There you go saying awunakudla wena ukuluma angani ngumuntu oqunjelweyo.
The other sad truth is that o boshman lama factory workers lama nurse wonawo owachothozayo athola imali abngayithola bengama engineers or lawyers eZimbabwe.
So why should they be ashamed bona bethola imali ebanelisisa ukuthi bephile and even have some to spare to send back home.

Liduba ngokusutha kubi lina bo Mntongenakudla lo Busobenyoka

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#1880 - 04/18/05 11:13 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Msupatsila Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 656
Loc: Solongo Life
Mina ngithi lindaba kayivalwe bantu benkosi

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#1881 - 04/19/05 03:22 AM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Mabila Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 2123
Loc: Ayowa
How does this then become "colonialism" Buso? You lost me here!

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#1882 - 04/19/05 06:01 AM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Ndukuzibomvu Offline
Ngqwele
****

Registered: 01/04/03
Posts: 176
Loc: KwaGuqangamadolo
First Generation Immigrant Lives

I'm not interested in performing a colonoscopy on first generation immigrant lives. However, I think I understand the tapestry of difficult problems encountered by first generation immigrant communities the world over; be they brown, black, white, green, blue, pink, yellow, spotted; and whatever other permutations and combinations of these categories. Simply put, the life of an average immigrant in their adopted country is tumultous; it's a rollercoaster ride. It ain't easy being an immigrant, that's for sure. I think it's very easy and tempting for people in the old country to judge and point fingers; that is only natural and a very human thing. Humans are very judgmental creatures, natural critics if you like. The majority of immigrants I know are sustained by hope, hope for a better tomorrow for their children. I think it was Stephen Bantu Biko who once quipped ''Better die for an idea that will live, than live for an idea that will die''. Could this be said of the transplanted turbulent lives of immigrants? You be the judge. Confucius once said ''Ideal people are universal and not clannish. Small-minded people are clannish and not universal". Should we reflect and meditate on this? Absolutely. Fault-finding is an exercise that should be left to the cherubims. For the average immigrant, who happens to live on planet earth, the priority is survival. Planet earth is blue. AbakaMageba noPhunga bathi Inxeba lendod' alihlekwa. How soon we seem to forget! I hope we are not cursed with the memory of a goldfish. A great number of the successful economies of the world were built by immigrant and slave labour. Don't tell me you think the sacrifices made by slaves and early immigrants were in vain! They sacrificed everything so you and I could live decent lives. Don't you dare ridicule them, and anyone else in the same predicament. This reminds me of something an Afro-American friend once shared with me. During the turbulent civil rights era, a Black student respondent to a Black researcher during the Berkeley Strike for a Third World college said ''I was in the movement and I got my ass busted so you [instructor] could get this job. Now you are talking about the white man's grade sh*t. Man, you benefittin' from my action. You wasn't even here when the sh*t came down''. I hope we can learn something from this powerful statement. There are sprouts that do not send up shoots; there are shoots that do not bear fruits. Thank you, Confucius. I don't want to live in a bubble.

A Canadian friend of mine sent me the article below; it might be a sobering read for some people. Get your butts off your high horses and smell the coffee of the cut-throat global economic climate.

Ngiyabonga.

quote:

Sat, October 9, 2004

IDLE MINDS

Thane Burnett notices that Canadians hail cabs, but not the drivers and we're wasting all kinds of talent because of that.

By THANE BURNETT, TORONTO SUN

DID SOMEONE call for a doctor? He arrives, always on time, in the stretch of a black limo. Dark, lint-free suit, and a demeanour as polished as shoe leather -- or the fender of that fine car.

Years of study, and work on three continents, have brought the good doctor to us -- qualified enough to open the back door of his airport limousine, and ask, with humble courtesy, ''Where can I take you today?''

His German-earned PhD. His years of teaching. His mastery of environmental science -- an authority on the purification of life-giving water -- who graduated from three different, recognized universities. And -- as a nation -- we're just happy "Doctor Sahiv" knows the shortest route to the hotel, speaks English for the ball scores and, "Oh driver, could you turn down the air conditioning, please?"

"I've wasted my whole life," the father of two offers, resting in a modest driver's lounge, as his, and other limos, wait in tight formation near Pearson's Terminal 2. "Why did I even bother with school at all, if you just needed me to drive a car?

"I am an environmental scientist polluting the air with my exhaust."

If there is an industry where you can track -- place a clicking meter -- on the waste of qualified and highly educated immigrants, it's the taxi trade. Foreign-trained doctors, lawyers and engineers -- ready-made to fill an expected shortage of up to one million skilled workers within five years -- are being dumped, literally, on the street, once they arrive in Canada.

A faulty, arguably discriminatory system is costing new Canadians a dream of giving their best to their adopted country, and is highway-robbing our nation of billions of dollars annually in lost, and badly needed, potential.

A little more than a decade ago, Rashpal Singh left his aerospace job in England, and headed across the Atlantic, hoping his children would avoid the undercurrents of racism he felt in the U.K.

He arrived here, took a breath, and walked into a recession. Suddenly, he wasn't toiling in an engineering trade, but rather flipping a meter in a car for hire.

"I would hear, again and again, 'You have no Canadian experience,' " he recalls. "I used to get upset.

"But I didn't come here for financial reasons. I could have done well in the U.K. I came here for my kids."

Both his children are heading for law degrees -- home-grown credentials which will never be suspect.

Karam Punian, vice-president of the Airport Taxi Cab Association, can count off more than 20 drivers who've earned better than a master's degree.

Punian was once an economist.

On this day, he started driving his cab at 4 a.m. -- logging his own economy from the front seat.

"How Canada looks on the outside, is not how it looks from the inside," he has discovered. "But we make the sacrifices, not for us, but for the next generation."

Immigration officials initially salivate at the breadth of each newcomer's education and experience, but once many immigrants try to work their trades here, they find credentials are not believed and certainly belittled. Many are told to start from almost scratch, while complaining they take a back-seat to Canadian-born applicants. So, in a flood to make their daily bread, the road-scholars -- many from middle-eastern countries -- drive other doctors and lawyers on their rounds. And try to stay quiet, along the way.

"Passengers don't want their driver to be educated," says the 61-year-old, India born "Doctor Sahiv," his nickname among fellow drivers. "Passengers want drivers to shut up. Just 'Yes Sir,' and 'No sir.'

"I thought it was a civilized country. I thought I could use my (degrees). I was wrong, but Canada loses because of it."

While well known among his peers, he is embarrassed his PhD collects dust, so he doesn't want his name used here. Besides, his intellect tells him things will never change.

There is a calculable fare attached to that failure, warns University of Toronto sociology professor Jeffrey Reitz, who's been studying the employment success, and missteps, of new Canadians.

An American who immigrated to this country in the '70s, Reitz has concluded the Canadian economy is losing $2 billion annually due to immigrants being short changed on the careers. That's a half-billion dollars more than the entire taxi and limo industry generates each year in this country.

In the 1960s and '70s, immigrants largely prospered more here than if they had made their way into the U.S. Not because we were more tolerant, argues Reitz, but rather because our post-secondary education lagged behind America. Canada simply needed trained immigrants. The void was filled.

Today, there's been a shift in the labour market.

It doesn't favour the educated newcomer, who is often thrown in reverse.

When a Canadian-born university graduate doesn't manage to find a career to match his degree, they usually climb down a rung or two on the job ladder.

STEREOTYPE IS TRUE

"For immigrants, it's not making their way down two rungs. They suddenly fall five or six," Reitz explains.

"There is a stereotype of taxi drivers being immigrants. But it's true."

In a cab marking time until they both pick up their next fares, a young electrical engineer and an aging fighter pilot sit and talk about what they expected of Canada.

Driver Shafiq-Ur-Rehman Gohir has three brothers, like himself, who have engineering degrees. Another brother was a vet, before they all immigrated from Pakistan five years ago. They now drive cabs.

"After 9/11, all the jobs for us dried up in Canada," explains Gohir, retrained in wireless telecommunications at Humber College.

The jet-pilot-turned-hack, who did not want his name used, hoped his dreams would soar when he arrived in Canada: "I told them I wanted to teach pilots to fly. After 9/11, they just shook their heads."

Dozing in the closed heat of the idling taxi, the former flyer adds: "Millions of dollars to train me, and here I sit."

Immigration Minister Judy Sgro agrees having some of the world's best trained cabbies is no good for moving the economy of the country. She says finding a solution is a "very high" priority. But there's currently a backlog of thousands of skilled workers waiting to have foreign credentials recognized.

"It's a huge issue ... It's a huge talent base that's here in Canada and they're not doing the jobs they came here (to do)," she has concluded.

"There's a real brain waste out there."

Provincial officials say they're putting an extra effort into verifying and recognizing foreign credentials, especially with doctors.

Mentoring programs have begun to help guide some immigrants through the red tape.

Ottawa has pledged $50 million to improve immigrant language skills, while another $1 million is going toward two projects to help foreign-trained workers put their talents to use.

But a C.D. Howe Institute study found recent immigrants --many highly educated -- earn less than those who arrived 30 years ago.

RURAL AREAS GO BEGGING

Rural Canadians beg for doctors and lawyers to work their towns. Here in Toronto -- where 60% of new Canadians choose to settle -- they're so abundant, you can hail them down on any street corner.

"Nine hundred doctors retire each year, and look at me," says Aly Mahmoud, an Egyptian-trained family doctor who came to Canada more than two decades ago, only to find work nursing a cab through a crowded city.

Today, he owns the company -- Sunrise Taxi -- and doesn't begrudge Canada for not using his talents.

"God bless Canada -- it's my country," he says, while stopped at a Scarborough coffee shop in his cab, A310.

"I have no regrets. But I hope things change for the latest (generation).

"I know (another) doctor who's now working in a car wash," laments the father of five. "Put them in Newfoundland or Halifax. Make use of them."

'Doctor Sahiv' is not so optimistic that will happen soon. He believes this article will accomplish very little.

Much like his impressive degrees.

It's barely the middle of a shift, which can run for 20 hours. Tomorrow he'll sleep most of the day.

But he should be testing well water samples in a remote Canadian community, he presses.

Perhaps he should have never gone to school, he says.

"If I can serve this country with less education, then why not?" he asks.

"You didn't use my full potential," he scolds.

Canada hails the cab, but not the drivers.

The next time you jump into a Toronto taxi, forget, for a moment, where you're going. Instead, ask the doctor in the front seat where he's been.


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#1883 - 04/19/05 11:16 AM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Msupatsila Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 656
Loc: Solongo Life
Wabuya uBuso wasiphosela inyoka ephilayo bandla, uthe esenze njalo, wavala owake weqela eceleni wacatsha efuna ukubona ukuthi bazathini. Ithi ingabankulu badla ingenzi nanjaniii asho njalo amaZulu.

Lana kusho ukuthu uBuso kasoli amanurse usola wonke umuntu owaphuma ezweni ukuthi adinge inhlala kahle. Into nansi uBuso kumela azi ukuthi lezinsuku, inhlala kahle isetsheni inkomo yomlungu ngitsho phela yona mali le eyabuya nabelungu. Ungathi uyakukhangelisisa, ukuthi imali uyithole njani esikhathini abaningi abakuqakathekisi kangako. Inkalakatha yikuthi ungebi, njalo ungabulali. Sesikhangela okwenzakalayo, Buso ubona kusengathi kulabo abasengilandi bangaki abazaphenduka ezweni lika Mthwakazi? Ngomunye umbuzo okumele uzibuze wona. Omunye ngowokuthi ekuphendukeni kwabo nxa ubaqathanisa labanye abasala ekhaya imali abayithola ekubeni ngomongi kumbe omongikazi kwelengilandi yona iningi okunganani. Ngibona kusengathi ngomnyaka owodwa ma engikuzwayo kuliqiniso, umongi/kazi osengilandi ngomnyaka engenza imali eholwa ngu average Zimbabwean ingaba liholo lalowo eleminyaka ethize. Konke lokho baba likukhangele. Anibona na ukuthi abanye bengabuya beneminyaka engaphansi kwamatshumi amabili, bezitshele ukuthi imilo iqalisa sebene minyaka engamatshumi amane kuthi kunjalo besebenze gadalala besazi ukuthi bahloseni (ukubuyela ekhaya). The Zim dollar is depriciating daily against the Queen Pound so is that not an advantage to labo obahlekayo abe dot.com. Nanzelela ukuthi abaningi balababantu bahlanganisa ukuba ngomongi lokuya esikolweni.

Umbuzo enginayo Buso ngowokuthi ubona kusengathi isimo sezinto ekhaya sizaguquka na?? Awufuna na ukuya eGoli ukuyadinga umsebenzi na?? Imisebenzi yehlukene wethu abanye bathengisa ama rekeni erenkini bezama impilo, abanye ngabagola amacimbi bezama impilo, abanye bathwala izibi bezama impilo. Kwehlukene esikwenzayo baba, kumele sikuvume lokho.


Ngithanda ukubonga umlobi olobe ngaphambilini, bakwethu insizwa iyasitshaya isingisi iyatshenia ukuthi yadla izingwalo. Hatshi mnumzana [clap] imibono yakho layo iyakha, kuyakhanya ukuthi uhlale phansi wacabanga wasuhlala phambili kwesigxingi sakho wahlokoza.

Kuyabongeka

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#1884 - 04/20/05 12:08 AM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Maqhamehlezi Offline
Nduna
****

Registered: 08/05/03
Posts: 362
Loc: Emzini wezi-Nkonjane
It is such great folly and knowledge deprivation for any jack to look down upon the nursing profession as well as people studying toward it.Some individuals who have not set foot to the west have no idea how life is so very different from 3rd or developing countries.
Once you come to places like UK you then discover how qualifications were over emphasised for nothing in Zim, for example in the UK a person can do most apprenticeship with only 2 'O' Levels whereas in Zim or SA you need 5 'O'Levels worse now 'A' Levels are ones considered.
Another thing,on average, one nurse salary in UK is equivalant to paying 15 to 25 Zim teachers and some nurses and carers in UK can afford to pay an engineer or lawyer in Zim from his/her salary every month and still remain with enough to live on.Also I know some people doing nursing and care work who have bought or built nice houses for themselves and for their parents in Zim,some have two houses on average,one in UK and another in Zim,cars well it nothing to talk about in UK coz anyone can afford getting one,more still some have managed setting up buiness out of their nursing nd carework money.
Its true that ignorance is bliss--a lot of us will need a nurse or carer to look after us when we are unwell and not able to do things ourselves.
I dimiss the notion of Colonisation through nursing,muntu omnyama phaphama dont keep on sitting on self pity and mourning about the past.Do something for yourself and stop blaming whites all the time for your failures just the same with people who keep mourning about SHONAS outside Zim,I think when outside Zim all tribes have equal opprtunities to do well without ZPF oppression so lets show that when in an environment that gives us opportunities we can do quite well if not better than in an oppressive Zim that aims to neutralise Mthwakazi people all the time.

Kuyabongeka mfowethu Ndukuzibomvu okwenzile ngale post yakho ngaphambilini.

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#1885 - 04/19/05 01:22 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Makhosazana Offline
Sakhamuzi

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Wakefiled
In Western countries there is dignity in labour. I find it honourable that the majority of Zimbabweans abroad put food on the table through legitimate than clandestine means.

Ngiyabonga Lobengula ngokukhumbuza abantu that we can't all be corporate executives holding Phds and running multi-national conglomerates, or some other big companies.

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#1886 - 04/19/05 01:26 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Busobenyoka Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Bulawayo
Mthwakazi,

Lingixolele I have not read all of the contributions here but one thing is clear; many have missed my point and are addressing an emotive issue they hve defined for themselves. It would help the debate if we return to the central point which I will try and address below in response to Mabila's brief and direct question.

Mabila, ngingakudeleli dade ngikuqale ngombuzo: what future is there for a country or a people who leave their country in droves all to become nurses or care workers. Imagine 10 years on if we are all repatriated or asked to leave and return to our countries, what contribution are we going to make given we have all been trained in a non-productive though essential health skill?

It doesn't stop there; professionals in other fields of economic, political and social endeavour who go to countries like the UK, US etc with other skills are forced to abandon their skills to go into nursing. At the same time younger people are encouraged by all of us to train as nurses even back home becoz "it is easy to enter any country as a nurse". So the problem becomes generational, to put it metaphorically. I don't think the acknowledged fact that we are given nursing and care work as our only calling in these countries becoz they don't want them should cause any offence. It sould be reason to think about this thing deeper, to look beyond the pound and the 'existential mentality' we are forced into.

Noone questions the reasons why people are becoming nurses but we must think beyond that if we are to return home with any skills our countries will benefit from. We are of course forced, and we accept to think short-term, but the implications of this nursing of necessity linger over generations. With this pace of things, those poor countries will need to invite Whites back to reconstruct our countries 20-30 years on.

If I may be more direct, I am concerned more about the UMR project.

And I have great respect for all professions out there. Perhaps the suggestions or innuendos that I despise nursing do not merit any comment from me.

It has been remarked in the context of South Africa in the past that Blacks do not plan beyond a year whereas Whites plan for generations.

Clearly if we are to come round in the next 10-20 years if this trend continues, we will need the 'assistance' of these very countries we call our previous oppressors, and we will get that 'assistance' on their terms. If this is not recoloniasation, I dont know what is?

I am surprised though that we dont see such a glaring problem in which we are willing or reluctant participants.

Buso

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#1887 - 04/19/05 01:44 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Skuvethe Offline
Nduna

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 406
Loc: I've never been to Heaven
Majietas labo Dade;

To concern ourselves with the 'British system' would be to fight the wrong war. The war we should all be focusing on right now is that against [Shona]Internal Colonisation. Mthwakazi, find a common cause or perish!

Also, given the AIDS pandemic,war/violence and poverty sweeping across Zimbabwe/Mthwakazi, healthcare professionals in the West should stand us in good stead in the fight against these ills. That we're short-sighted and do not realise the benefits to Mthwakazi of Western-based healthcare professionals is a sad indictment on our leaders.

But, okwamanje, the war must be against Shona Internal Colonisation hayi the British or Western govts.

Ibambeni, lingay'yeki. Sebenza!!

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#1888 - 04/19/05 02:01 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Lobengula Offline
Nkosi
*****

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1077
Loc: Tsholotsho
Buso

With due respect baba, your argument is still very narrow-minded and flawed. The people that are working in the health professions abroad are actually supporting their families back home. They have selflessly sent most of their family members to Universities in South Africa and other parts of the world.

Buso , let me illustrate the short-sightedness of your arguement. Most of us (including myself), were supported by our parents who were working as child-minders in Montrose or Hillside or Burnside (Bulawayo). If they had absconded and refused to work by following your logic and line of reasoning, then they would not have been able to send us to boarding schools and later universities. Consequently we would have become tsotsis in Renkini terrorising communities, disappearing with people's moneys etc etc. But because our parents loved us, they worked tirelessly and managed to finance our staudies at expensive missionary schools and varsities. On completion, when we qualify as Accountants, nurses, doctors, mechanics, engineers, economists and propagandists, we take over the financing of families. They retire. They have done their duty, and they have done so with distinction. Now they pass the button to us the new generation. You do not have a nation of child-minders when they retire. A mother for example, receives supplies from her daughter (nurse), cash from her son (banker), clothes from her elder daughter (advocate) , money from another son (businessman). Now the fact that she has retired does not mean that now we have a nation of childminders. In fact she has managed to add 4 professionals into the Zimbabwean economy (nurse, advocate, banker & businessman). Isn't that wonderful?
No matter how you try to justify it Buso, your arguement is flawed and I do not see any tangible factors that you can use to beef it up.

In the same vain, our brothers and sisters who are toiling and wallowing in snow abroad should be seen as pioneers. Their children will find a base and they wont have to suffer like their parents. Their kids will have proper papers. They will have proper citizenship (not asylum seekers), they will be legally capable of going to Oxford at taxpayers money. They will have the rights to be British MPs if needs be and be better placed to press charges against such characters as Mugabe for their sins.

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#1889 - 04/19/05 02:51 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Busobenyoka Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Bulawayo
Mthwakazi,

With respect, in some cases I can only express 'shock and owe', to borrow a term from the Rumsfeld Gang.

I am sure each of the contributors is right on the points they have defined for themselves but not, with respect, on the basic point I am making. The practical, immediate and existential benefits of nursing are not in dispute, as indeed is nursing as a profession. (But the point remains that we are given it becoz they don't want it, and that is crucial!!!) My worry is the erosion of essential skills to run a country back home and abroad. Lobengula, those teachers, lawyers, doctors, accountants etc go to the UK etc only to find they cannot be employed in their trained capacities, and are forced into nursing, care work, general labour etc.

Nothing beneficial for a country can come out of such a situation, in the long-term.

Collectively, we can tackle it even, Skuvethe, as we wage our struggle against Shona domination. And on Shona domination Skuvethe, becoz they are supported by their state, especially for UN, governmental and international jobs, the Shona do acquire some important skills while for uMthwakazi this is virtually absent. At the very best, we are nurses; that must be cause for concern.

Buso

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#1890 - 04/19/05 03:38 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
kaMjaji Offline
Nduna

Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 329
Loc: ESkwakweni
Buso
I am of the opinion that you gravely undermine the seriousness of the problem at present and thus you are dwelling on the future.
Maybe you can enlighten us on ways of tackling these problems.
It will be more constructive if you could point ibandla to indlela zokungena lapha other than le eyobu-nurse; ama-scholarships for the courses you deem essential; jobs relavant to our qualifications. Otherwise wethu abantu bayalamba ekhaya and as uLobs etshilo ngaphambili bafidwa yithi omongi labomongikazi simelele lina elaziyo ukuthi lilungise ilizwe.
Ijekiseni ezibunu!!!!

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#1891 - 04/19/05 03:58 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Lobengula Offline
Nkosi
*****

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1077
Loc: Tsholotsho
Buso

Uthi wena:
quote:
At the very best, we are nurses; that must be cause for concern.
I do not know where the hell our people get this nonsensical view of looking down upon nurses. The serious and deadly risk facing our nation is one of villifying the nursing profession and treating it with contempt and derision. This must cease, it is uncalled for and must be dismissed with contempt. Nurses play a very pivotal role in the wellbeing of our nation. They are playing a far much better role than a useless minister for example.
Not too long ago, when Zimbabwe thrashed South Africa in a World Cup qualifier match, Zimbabweans were quick to label and brand Doctor Khumalo as "Nurse Khumalo". This presumably was meant to signify the insignificance of nursing as a profession. If I as game ranger, go to the UK and find an opportunity to train as a nurse, I will gladly do that, because not only will it complement my game ranging skills but it will also equip me to be able to deal with the HIV/AIDS epidemic that is plundering our people. Busobenyoka, do you remember the story of the first black nuclear physicist in the world who is incidentally a Mthwakazian Dr Frank Sihawu Khumalo? When he came back to the country from abroad after winning all academic awards in nuclear physics and mathematics, he found that when his own people were sick due to basic ailments like ngubhane or mhedehede, he was unable to offer any help whatsoever. He found that the problems in Mthwakazi did not require rocket science or nuclear physics but simple diagnosis of what causes diarrhea and what tablets to admister to the sick. Dr Khumalo quickly folded his long tail and headed to Natal University (Wits?) in South Africa to study for medicine and quickly graduated and started practising as a medical doctor.
The thing here is this that some of the courses that are offered abroad might not be relevant to basic Mthwakazian situations, as illustrated by Dr Khumalo's scenario. Nurses are encouraged to arm themselves to the teeth with these skills given the estimated millions of HIV/AIDS people in the sub-region.

Another paradoxical inference drawn from your analysis Buso is that on the one hand people are up in arms against Mbeki's HIV/AIDS posture, on the other hand the same people are also up in arms against those who are selfless and devote their lives to caring for the sick.

In my opinion , primary health care will be the most vital aspect of Mthwakazian lives, ahead of politics and other so-called juicy professions.

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#1892 - 04/19/05 05:59 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Mabila Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 2123
Loc: Ayowa
Any organisation without a strategic human resource plan will fall short of it's vision bandla and that is the unfortunate dominating scenario ko ****a okwamanje. Abantu baya ku nursing profession to survive. As you rightly point our Buso, people are pushed into Nursing ngoba bengela choice. I cannot put it any better than Nduku has. If they had a choice they would examine alternatives. Yibo ubuphepheli lobu esihlala sikhala ngabo and these are some of the culminations. There is nothing absolutely wrong with Nursing as a profession ngoba it is a service like any other. Our perceptions would indeed be misplaced if we looked down upon Nursing and what nurses do.

You mention the developed world as needing nurses. They have a human resource plan which includes among others, the recruitment of foreign nurses ngoba their population growth rate inversely matches their low birth rates. The oldest olds will soon comprise 50% of the total population and hence their need for additional nurses to care for their elderly. They have done their homework.

Our system has let us down by it's failure to articulate a human reosurce plan that addresses the multi-structural facets of our society. UZ higher education has for a long time not addressed the needs of a developing economy. Ngubani ongamela indlala?

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#1893 - 04/19/05 06:36 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Msupatsila Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 656
Loc: Solongo Life
Ehe kangicele indlebe zenu kancane bandla!!!!!

Ngicela indlebe zenu kengitsho ukuncane engilakho. Uyazi bengingazwisisi ukuthi lindaba ihamba njani ngiyambonga uBuso ngokuchasisa. Inkinga yikuthi sisuka sifake imizwa kakhulu andubana sixwayisise ukuthi umfowethu ukhuluma ngani. Lami bengivele sengithwele induku ngisithi kantu lumuntu usivele ngaphi. Uyabona ngendlela achaze ngayo ngibona kusengathi lindaba yindaba okumele ikhulunywe kungafakwa mizwa.

Uhlupho yilona lolo olokuthi siyazi ukuthi impilo yengilandi imnandikodwa iyasetshenzwa bandla njalo silokhe silokuzikhangelela phansi nxa sisenza umsebenzi lo. Nxa uBuso ethi uyafaka umbono wakhe besesigijima siphange sizivikele andubana sixwayisise ukuthi uvela ngaphi njalo uyangaphi. Ngempela imali yengilandi iningi njalo kawusoze uziqathanise lomuntu osekhaya ngendlela ezinengi kodwa singabeka umona ohlukanise izimuli abanye baqonda lapho abaqonde khona libona kusengathi uBuso wonile na ngokuletha umbono wakhe. Yebo mthwakazi singakhuluma ngokuthi ngeke sikhohlwe ngobunzima obusezweni nxa sihlaziya loludaba kodwa mina ngibona uBuso elomcijo. Yikuthi nje lathi esenza imisebenzi enjalo sisuka sibe lokuyiinferiority complex thats the reason why we are soo defensive. Lets open our eyes and try to analyse what the gentleman is saying. I know that in raising this topic someone had some mischevious agenda BUT I think it is really worth discussing.

Ayixoxwe lindaba.

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#1894 - 04/19/05 06:47 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Busobenyoka Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Bulawayo
Mabila/Lobengula,

Mabila, to start off from your last rhetorical question; kakho! And I will say it expressly: kuright ukuthi abantu bathi seek ways to feed themselves and nursing is one of those methods.

All I have said is to invite uMthwakazi to look beyond this need, to see the long-term and even generational problem of breeding nurses only. Its not out of choice of course but my basic point has been to awaken isizwe to this problem.

Utshani nxa bulele buvuswa ngumlilo!!!

Unfortunately, amacontributions keep restating the problem rather acknowledging this issue as an issue for serious debate. Abomthetho bathi they distinguish between facts in issue and facts relevant to the facts in issue. Most of the emotive points engizizwa la are, in my view, marginal to the issue I would wish uMthwakazi to engage seriously, particularly ukuthi even as we are all suffering, amaShona nonetheless still get trained in other important fields of life - running a country for example.

Lobengula mfowethu, you are hammering on a point which is not in issue, and which, for reasons unknown to me, you have characterised as emotive. As most of what you say is not what I am about, I find it difficult to respond to you. Maybe bakhona abanye who will respond to you better than I would.

Kodwa Mthwakazi, as my closing point for now, litsho ukuthi eqinisweni aliyiboni-na iproblem created by ukuthi 'bonke' abantu abaphesheya are nurses, care workers etc, and those coming out of ekhaya with other skills and training are forced to abandon those skills ALL to become nurses and care workers?

Akukho esingakwenza ngalokhu?

Buso

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#1895 - 04/19/05 06:59 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Mabila Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 2123
Loc: Ayowa
Why not address the global HR strategy than dwell on Nursing kuphela Buso? What can we change ngabantu asebevele sebe committed and have no control on present choices including whether they go back to Mthwakazi or not?? Why not address the reasons for the brain flight as part of the solution to not breeding a nation of nurses. Should we not be talking of creating a nation too and the skills that will be demanded thereof? In your view, what do you see as the way forward??

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#1896 - 04/19/05 07:01 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Msupatsila Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 656
Loc: Solongo Life
Buso I think my man you have a point. I tried in my last contribution to ask people not to be emotional about this issue and look at it in a sober state. You have a point I repeat

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#1897 - 04/19/05 07:11 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Makhosazana Offline
Sakhamuzi

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 62
Loc: Wakefiled
Buso,

The politics of race and labour have always been there and will always be there. Like Ndukuzibomvu clearly pointed out immigrants quite often do not have a choice when they arrive in these countries. They will settle for any job that will make them survive. You seem to imply that there are better choices for them besides nursing and care work. It would be nice if you suggest them.

It is a fact that this is a cause for concern. But at the same time what can people do, if these are the opportunities that are readily available to them in the UK?

As for the human resource development in other fields, you will be pleased to know that there are students in Universities and qualified professionals in all fields of knowledge. Akusicala labo ukuthi abayitholi imisebenzi eleholo elilengqondo.

As for the UMR project, I do not see the benefit of us concerning ourselves with something that is not even on the horizon. People have lives to live.

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#1898 - 04/19/05 07:50 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Busobenyoka Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Bulawayo
Mthwakazi,

Mabila, I identify nursing at the moment becoz it is the calling 'left' for us to scaramble over. I am given to understand that even doctors who have immigrated often find it difficult to practise as doctors, often working as housemen or some other such 'inferior' position (nothing derogatory here!). Of course those already in the nursing system must continue. Our role would be to try and tackle the problem henceforth.

I agree the issue is one of HR strategy overall. But we cannot ignore an immediate and present problem and seek to generalise and diminish the significance of this immediate problem. The broader HR strategy will have to be addressed but the trigger has been provided by this attempt to convert us all to nurses - to nurse, not our mothers, brothers, sisters etc debilitated by HIV/AIDS, malnutrition etc, but the superior race abroad. It is as glaring as that.

I have no ready answers dadewethu but before we agree that this is a problem silenkinga, but nxa sihlanganisa amakhanda, we can work it out.

Makhosazana, you sound cynical and unable to see beyond immediacy. I would therefore hope that I will have an opportunity to respond to you on another occasion.

Msupatsila, ngiyabonga wethu. I now have hope.

Buso

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#1899 - 04/19/05 08:15 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Mabila Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 2123
Loc: Ayowa
Buso!

It is true that Professional Authorities in the USA and UK set stringent conditions for entry into the professional practice roles and hence you find doctors performing in other roles than those they would have been prapared for in home countries.Sound or not, the reasons are to protect their citizenry from malpractice. I agree with you that a whole nation cannot train only Nurses. That would not be a balanced decision at all.

Uthi wena "........but the trigger has been provided by this attempt to convert us all to nurses -" Who is behind this attempt Buso to convert? Are you implying that there is a deliberate effort out there to make us into something?? Is it not us who see an immediate survival opportunity in Nursing?? I am not aware of any other driving force to entry apart from hunger and the need to care for our loved ones back home.

Let me also hasten to say that Nursing offers a wide range of career oppportunities and stability too.

Let me hear from you on this issue of ukwenziwa kwethu ama nurses.

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#1900 - 04/19/05 08:51 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Bhudaza Offline
Ndunankulu
*****

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 584
Loc: Byo, Mthwakazi
Undoubtedly Buso has a point.

This is colonisation in the sense that people are virtually forced into that profession. In a free society people have the right to choice. Furthermore, in an ideal world, one chooses a career path tailored to their abilities and one which is most importantly enjoyable to them. Whilst there is no doubt that there a reasonable income compared to Zimbabwe, the vacancies exist as a result of the fact that the natives of the United Kingdom are rather too proud to take up those positions.

I am sure Buso is one of those patriots, like myself, that regularly gets frustrated when a moment comes when the services of a lawyer, for example, are required and there is none around of Mthwakazian origin for consultation. Our economists, engineers, caterers, builders, teachers etc are being swallowed into a profession already flooded with too many Mthwakazians. In the geographical area where I live, the carer's job is simply becoming scarce as result of flooding.

As a solution to this, I suggest people further their careers once they have surpassed this stepping stone. In all this, I know not of a Zimbabwe/(Mthwakazian) nursing association in the UK, why is that? There is very little being reaped by our nation as a whole apart from the well being individuals and their immediate families.

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#1901 - 04/19/05 08:53 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Busobenyoka Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Bulawayo
Mabila,

First, nursing is the area they do not want and prefer to leave it to 'imports' to do for them.

Second, lathi ngendlala and all, we go into nursing.

So essentially, we have been left one door. All I am saying is this one door a problem, and if it is, what can we do to prise open other outlets.

Still dadewethu I think uyangikhutha kancane. The reason or the motive for us becoming nurses is not the issue. Nor is ukuthi those abroad provide for those back home through nursing. The issue is: is this a problem for the developing world (to put it in a global context), and if it is, what can we do about it? In other words, is it a problem or not for those abroad and those joing them becoming nurses? But before we worry about what to do about it, we have to identify and acknowledge it as a problem in the first place. If it is not, the question of what to do falls away.

Im worried!

Buso

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#1902 - 04/19/05 09:19 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Mabila Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 2123
Loc: Ayowa
Kuhle Buso uyezwakala ukuthi ukhala ngani and Bhudaza has address the "forced into" question eloquently. Indeed Nursing does not have to be an end for those who do not wish for it to be. Imali ikhona ngempela and the pressures to make more money asuka ande and people stop multi- skilling themselves and moving into other professions.

Kodwa njengoba ngike ngatsho,manengi ama career opportunities within Nursing itself if people bothered to look beyond the stereo type. I do not know where your definition of "Nursing" begins and ends but nurses are indeed managers, leaders, educators,researchers and academics. In the same countries othi abanikazi abayifuni i nursing my experince is different...bagcwele ema University as Professors too like all other professionals commanding the same salaries lamanye ama Professor.

The shortage in their home countries is created by the ever expanding role of nurses and not because hospitals cannnot attract nursing students or retain staff as you seem to suggest. They do attract many numbers. Remember too Buso ukuthi ngapha akula ma maid ngezindlini or bayadula abakhona, or even better umama ongu nurse will choose to deliberately stay home and raise the children because she can do it best and how many nurse are women?? Those are some of the reasons for the shortage Buso not that all the citizens shun nursing altogether! I personally have testimonies of former accountants, teachers, NY stoke brokers and psychpologists who have gone back to college seeking a fulfilling human service career! In anycase it's all about what brings the best out of you if the environment can support that personal and professional growth!

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#1903 - 04/19/05 10:14 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
hlathi81 Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 573
Loc: gwanda..
Bandla,

I've been following this topic closely with much intrest.I have two question i would like to pose -

1-I would like to find out what exactly is brain drain?
2-If i leave the country lets say as a lawyer and i get to the UK and enter the nursing field is that brain drain or not?

ngiyabonga.

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#1904 - 04/19/05 11:30 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
malimaza Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 225
Loc: emqansweni wakofambeki
Mina ngingomunye wabantu abenza i nursing engilandi ekubuyeni kwethu emazweni for various reasons alandelayo.
1)Okwakuqala u did not need to pay any fees and u were paid bursary
2)Nxa uyenze inursing amaphepha kahluphi okuhlala engilandi
3)Ngenxa yokuthi kule demand yama nurse kuwo wonke amazwe nje it makes it easier for one to travel and work around the world
4)Okunye sesathola amadual citizenship ngemva kokusebenza iminyaka emine.

Ngithe ngisuka ezimbabwe ngangisanda kuqeda ama "A"level ngazuza indawo e UZ kodwa the course i was not offeredwhat i wanted to do,so my only choice was going to UK to become a nurse and okwakathesi i do not deal with patients and the last time i worked on the ward was 3yrs ago,singakhangeleli amanurses phansi ngoba ama opportunities manengi after qualifying to be a nurse.Nxa ngibhale angani ngiyagabaza lingixolele.

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#1905 - 04/19/05 11:32 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Siphepheli Offline
Ndunankulu
***

Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 741
Loc: Khonaph'ya Enkangala
Bandla,

Kuyabongeka bakithi ukuthi sesikhulile sesixoxisana ngesineke siphikisane sivuye sivumelane njalonje kungekho ophose igama elibi.

Ubaba uBuso ngiyamuzwa ekhala ngelokuthi kusasa sobayisizwe bani esigcwele abongi ukwedlula ezinye indlela zokusebenza.

Ngizathatha umzekeliso ofakwe yinkosi uLobengula owokuthi ngesikhathi abazali bethu bencindezelwe ngabelungu, abazange balahle ithemba. Abazali benza okwakumele bekwenze ngaleso sikhathi ukuhlomisa thina usapho lwabo. Basebenza imisebenzi engaphansi njalo engahambelani lokufunda kumbe ama'potentials' abo. Abanye babambanisa leyo misebenzi lokufunda ebusukuzikolo ukuze bazithuthukise.

Ngendlela efanayo ngalesi isikhathi kulabo abenelisa ukungena kwezobongi ukuze bathole okuyingcosana kokuhlomisa usapho ngezinye izindlela kumlunge benze kanjalo. Lokhu ngikutsho ngoba inengi elisemazweni kathesi angiboni lizathola amathuba okubusa ilizwe lethu within say the next decade. Ngemva kwaleso sikhathi bazabe sebegugile. Okwamanje kungabayingqondo ukuba silungiselele abangemuva, usapho lwethu abazenelisa ukuthi bangene ezifundweni kumbe emisebenzini etshiyene lobongi.

Engingakukhuthaza nje yikuthi asizameni ukusebenzisa amathuba emali esiwanikezwa yikubangabongi ukuzifundisa ebusukuzikolo ukuze sithole amanye ama'qualifications' angadingakala nxa sesithole ukuzibusa.

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#1906 - 04/20/05 12:57 AM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
malimaza Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 225
Loc: emqansweni wakofambeki
point of correction:
the course i was offered was not what i wanted to do

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#1907 - 04/20/05 02:29 AM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Sheik Mthembo Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 629
Loc: The People's Republic of Mthwa...
Ngiyayizwa indaba le njalo ngiyayilandela. I think it is not true that the locals are not interested in nursing. Infact the opposite is true, but the locals do not find the pay here attractive. Once they complete their studies in nursing, they work for a little while to gain some experience and then they head off to America/Australia/Cananda where working conditions are far better than in the UK in their own standards.

So what we are witnessing is a step on step migration. UK local nurses move for greener pastures abroad while those from the third world find the conditions attractive to them in the UK and also not forgetting that nursing is widely open to foreigners and recently teaching.

Buso has a point that there is a problem there and the only solution is for those who are in nursing to use it as a stepping stone. After completing it and working in this country, I find no reason why they can not do other courses of their interest. Many have done so that I know and some are in the process.

The only danger that is there is that they can remain there is due to the attractive money that is there and the career progression which is very rapid. For those who want to continue in nursing, there is no reason they can not progress to specialise. And for those who want to divert, there is no reason why they can not, especially after gaining the residence status and are eligible for grants and home fees status, which is very much less compared to foreign students.

So they just have to grab the opportunities and they are very much better positioned now to get on the property ladder as labour has launched a Key Worker living scheme for civil servants to give them loans with no repayable interest to buy houses. Nurses here in the UK these days bathenga izindlu buthumuthumu just as they are doing home.

Nanso-ke indaba!

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#1908 - 04/20/05 09:40 AM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Dokotela Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1298
Loc: Emkhathini
I do not see how nursin is related to colonialism. I only view people a that have to make a living through giving health services. I think its really as simple as that.

It is not the fault of the proffesionals that they have to erode their on land of skill, but their needs to earn and sustain themselves.

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#1909 - 04/20/05 11:45 AM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Mthoko Offline
Sikhulu

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 238
Loc: G Skweya P.O Box Loxion
Madoda labo dade

I think we might be wasting our time arguing with someone who hasnt got a vivid picture of someone who arrives in a foriegn country.
For starters, i suspects Buso's points are based on hear'say. Like the other gentleman pointed out, it isnt easy for first generation immigrants. Take for instance the Pakistanis and the West Indian were brought into the UK after WW2 to rebuild the country. 90% of them were factory workers or brickies. They put their heads down and worked hard while raising their families and even helping out thier mums and dads who they left behind.
Their children grew up to be doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers, engineers, etc...
The same thing happened in America with Pourto Ricans and even our own M gaxaland with Malawians.

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#1910 - 04/20/05 01:07 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
bunandi kill me Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 805
Loc: ezintembeni
HK HK HK HK UQINISILE MTHO [clap] [clap] [clap]

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#1911 - 04/20/05 01:52 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Busobenyoka Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 08/10/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Bulawayo
Mthoko,

To the extent you take migration as a career path you are right.

AmaNdiya, Pakistanis etc in the few places of the world i have been to (even eZimbabwe) still occupy the fringes of towns and cities and run what are near-informal economies.

I point kaChairman Mthembu eyokuthi after doing ubongi people are free to diversify to other professions is a valid one. I wish it would be taken seriously. Sadly for the most part we are all preoccupied ngamaCellphone and neimoto, things which understandably to a lot of us are novelties. The bigger picture is much much more serious.

Ngizadedela abanye.

Buso

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#1912 - 04/20/05 03:41 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Mabila Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 2123
Loc: Ayowa
Buso! I think you are also labouring under the assumption that people will return home some glorious day and continue to do what they did abroad. This will be possible only in so far as the system at home can allow them ad reward them appropritaely and that is a tall order. What is or what could home be doing right now to prepare for these returnees??

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#1913 - 04/20/05 04:50 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
nomandebele Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 10/25/03
Posts: 150
Loc: uk
Mtho zwana i think maybe u should show u Buso a bit of respect. I mean he may not understand immigrant working like you do but heyi wena , he is a man. He is still in Zim and did earning his living!So in view of this no mud slinging please argue ngamafacts!

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#1914 - 04/20/05 05:15 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Mabila Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 2123
Loc: Ayowa
The following is a pick from Buso hk hk "Sadly for the most part we are all preoccupied ngamaCellphone and neimoto, things which understandably to a lot of us are novelties." Underline "neimoto" hk hk Akula Buso oze Zim ngiyala mina hk hk hk!

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#1915 - 04/20/05 05:22 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
nomandebele Offline
Ngqwele

Registered: 10/25/03
Posts: 150
Loc: uk
MAbila
AHH! UBuso nxa esimisilida asazi. Kodwa phela ungakhohlwa ukuthi obhudi bekhaya labo bake bahlupha ngokuzenza imitshifana ngensuku zabo so i wouldnt be surprised !

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#1916 - 04/20/05 05:59 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Mabila Offline
Nkosi
***

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 2123
Loc: Ayowa
Kaaaaaaaaambe?? Kasilinde aphendule hk hk Uzasidukluza namuhla hk

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#1917 - 04/20/05 06:16 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
bunandi kill me Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 805
Loc: ezintembeni
hk hk hk hk hk yekelani ubuso usemhlabeni mani

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#1918 - 04/20/05 06:17 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
bunandi kill me Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 09/20/04
Posts: 805
Loc: ezintembeni
hk hk hk hk hk yekelani ubuso usemhlabeni mani

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#1919 - 04/20/05 07:56 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Potshoza Offline
Nduna

Registered: 08/20/01
Posts: 480
Loc: Leamington Spa
Never mind. The nursing profession has not seen what fate has in store for Mthwakazi yet!!

I hope as nurses we will be the Mary Seacoles and Florence Nightingales of Mthwakazi when that day comes. The day of UMvukela wamaNdebele, sesisiyalithatha ngoba kakukho ngenye indlela.

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#1920 - 04/20/05 08:13 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Msupatsila Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 656
Loc: Solongo Life
Bengike ngaphuma kancinyane. Indaba le ilokhe ibusa eNkundleni.

Mina ngilokhe ngisithi uBuso ulomcijo. Considering that the balance of power in the world economy and politricks is kind of like shifting from the west to the east what are we going to do with our qualifications. At the moment we can see that there is a recession will abongi continue to be in demand or what? Also considering that many of ama immigrants are into ukuba ngomongi I support Chalimani Mthembo ma ethi kumele sifunde singezele ulwazi. Ukuba ngomongi is just a stepping stone so upon steppinn on this stone why not leap to another one which might be needed in China in ten years.

Umbuzo engilawo kuncitshi ezigwele lapha yikuthi what will happen ngemva kweminyaka ethize njengoba uChina eseyinkunzi laye njalo kukhomba ukuthi uUSA uyamesaba and uEurope laye usengathi usebenzela duze kukaChina. Alikuboni ukuthi kuzasitshiya esikhaleni. Bantu siseneminyaka yokuphila and ngibona kusengathi ten years ziningi ekuthini inotho yezwe elithize ingahambi njengalokho esikubonayo manje. Asicabangeni beyond ukuthi at the moment impondo incono kulekwatsha ngoba singasala esikhaleni mthwakazi.

hk hk hk

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#1921 - 04/20/05 09:09 PM Re: COLONIALISM BY NURSING
Sheik Mthembo Offline
Ndunankulu

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 629
Loc: The People's Republic of Mthwa...
Musupa

I hope you would also realise that Mtho has contributed a very vital point that the Mthwakazi professionals down here in the UK are on their way to produce a variety of professionals through their children that will have more opportunities availabe to them than their parents by virtue of being British and locals. It is indeed a reality that Mthwakazi is going to benefit a lot here and to rubbish this profession that is going to breed doctors, teachers, computer technicians, radiographers, social workers and psychologists to name but a few professions is indeed rediculous and not worth the attention of serious minded people.

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