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#2330 - 07/02/05 11:12 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Sakhamuzi
Registered: 09/26/04
Posts: 78
Loc: New Zealand
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With all his mistakes, and they were many,Joshua Nkomo remains the one of the greatest man that ever lived!!!
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#2331 - 07/02/05 11:13 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Sakhamuzi
Registered: 09/26/04
Posts: 78
Loc: New Zealand
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With all his mistakes, and they were many,Joshua Nkomo remains one of the greatest man that ever lived!!!
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#2332 - 07/02/05 11:59 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Ndunankulu
Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 629
Loc: The People's Republic of Mthwa...
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We should have july 1 as an important date in our calender and so are dates for the death of Mzilikazi and Lobengula.
I do not want to be a bore but this is the poem I wrote when Mdala passed away in the month of july while I was at Uni, kwelikaQueen! It was sad and I felt I should mourn his death by putting my ideas about him on paper through poetry. We all know Nkomo's political blunders but that does not in anyway belittle his greatness as our leader. There is a lot he did and a lot he should be remembered for.
DR JOSH
Nyandezulu kaMthwakazi,
Nyandezulu kaZulu,
Nyand' emabalabala,
Eyaqhob' abafo,
Yabaqhoba ngamabal' ayo
Nyandezulu kaZapu,
Eyakhaful' inkafulakufa ngenkaba kuzitha,
Zajinge zaqumba zadidek' ingqondo,
Zabon' izibunu zenyoka,
Eyath' isadlezinye yadle zinye,
Yath' isadlezinye yadle zinye.
Wena mthombo wothando kaZulu,
Wena Nyoni ntshantshaza kaZulu,
Owantshantshaz' amas' othando kuZulu,
Kwathi kubafo wantshantshaz' isiwogo,
Sona santshansthaz' amalangab' omlilo wokufa,
Wena kaNyongolo,
Mhluz, ozobabayo,
Mhluz' ohaqazayo,
Wen' owabhijwa ngoNdlebezikhany' ilanga,
Bethi ngumphuz' owamaholontshisi,
Kant' ababuzang' eLangeni,
Wajinge wabahaqaz' imiphimbo,
Bajinge bakukhaful' isiphithiphithi,
Njengembuz' iphumela,
Batsho ngesilaphalapha bethi "yazi baba kaloyena!".
Nteletsha kaZulu,
Nogwatsha kaMthwakazi,
Wen' owalukuphekwa ngoGundwane,
Bazamil' ukutsheba ngawe,
Kodwa behlulekile,
Uphunyuka bemphethe,
Mbokodo ebutshelezi.
Lamuhla,
Silusizi,
Sidabukile,
Simadolo nzima,
Sisenkangala,
Inkangal' elugwadule,
Kome qha Nyongolo kaZulu,
Sibane sikaZulu,
Esicime singalindele
Okwamanje,
Sisebunyameni,
Ubunyam' obuthe bhuqe,
Siyathungatha,
Sithungath' indlela yokukhanya
Dlozi likaMthwakazi,
Dlozi likaMzilikazi,
Dlozi likaMtshobana,
Lala ngokuthula baba,
Ingqob' ikithin' okwamanje,
Ngonyama yesilo,
Ndabezitha,
Bayethe Ngonyama
Sheik Mthembo
(All rights reserved).
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#2333 - 07/03/05 12:49 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Nkosi
Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1077
Loc: Tsholotsho
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Uqedile baba Mthembo. Adding more could be tantamount to subtracting value from your esteemed eulogy to this great Mthwakazian son. Despite his tragic and quasi-suicidal dramatic political blunders, Dr Mqabuko Nkomo remains a towering son of Africa, a great man wo will be remembered for his bravery and gallantry in batlefield and his stoic and stochastic determination to free his people from political bondage. Notwithstanding his unprecedented larger than life heroism, Dr Nkomo made fatal blunders that nearly led to the complete cataclysmic extermination and decimation of his very people whom he had sought to free. That he was outfoxed and outmanuevered by Mugabe is now a matter of political science essayists. How he failed to see the devil in Mugabe who rebeled against him first in 1963 when he led a splinter coterie of Shonas who broke ties with Zapu and formed a tribal party called Zanu is yet to be explained. But as if that was not a enough Mugabe repackaged himself and pretended that he and Nkomo could work together in the nonsensical so-called Partriotic Front in 1979(PF-ZAPU & ZANU-PF). Nkomo allowed himself to be abused or misused as a political pawn, or a guinea pig by Mugabe who immediately thereafter condemned to the status of a dissident fugitive who had to escape undercover of darkness, scamper in ignominy and terror into the oblivion and anonymity of exile in Britain. This is indeed an omenously taboo if not a voodoo political eyesore in Dr Joshua Nkomo's otherwise illustrious political and military history as towering heavy weight of Mthwakazian politics(Zimbabwean?). I personall wonder whether Mdala new of a state that used to be called Mthwakazi. This is fueled by the fact that as a self-styled Father Zimbabwe and an undisputed father of the struggle in Zim, he failed to advocate for a Mthwakazian state but rather he chose a meaningless Mbuya Nehanda-inspired Zvimbabwe. That his political fate eventually took a sad twist from bad to worse is perhaps due to his own shortcomings. History will unfortunately judge Dr Nkomo harshly, as a man who wrote his own political obituary through brinkmanship and political impetuosity even where a little reasoning was called for. Good political judgement and Nkmo were like day and night, like oil and water, he was physical giant and a mental dwarf!!!!
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#2334 - 07/02/05 06:26 PM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Mafikizolo
Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 1
Loc: uk
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awu madoda akithi; ngaze ngamkhumbula okaNYONGOLO!ngikhumbula sisiyambeka ezizweni. mina ngikhule ngisazi ukuthi indoda yayithi ingatshona, ibekwe ngemva kwes'baya senkomo emzini wayo.Ngingazi mhlawumbe lisiko labesuthu loba elamaJahunda lapho engidabuka khona. kodwa lokhu okwenzakala kuMdala, hatshi mina ngithi lizilo.Ngehla isitimela eHarare mhlazana sisiyambeka....Sambeka yebo, kodwa lapho alele khona kugcwele amasela,ababulali lamaqili. VUKA MTHWAKAZI kanti ulaleleni..........
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#2336 - 07/04/05 11:01 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Nkosi
Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 1298
Loc: Emkhathini
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What affects me about uNyongolo, yikuthi waphanga wasutha, wayengeka waya eHarare, emtshoneni wasishiya thina sodwa. Wangabi lendaba ukuthi kwenzakalani kithi, wangabi lendaba ukuthi impumelelo yethu izakubakhona nini. Ngesikhathi esenza njalo, kwakumele kube yisikhathi sokuthi aveze obala ku International community ukuthi, nango umgabe usetshaye iGenocide. Instead yena wabona kungcono ukuthi aprotecte umgabe ngoku bambana laye.
Amaphutha akhe yiwo asenza sibe ngaba yanga thina abantu besintwini. Yiwo ayenza ukuthi phakathi kwama petrol stations angu 9 koBulawayo, kube lelinye nje zwi elilo mnini wakithi, kodwa wonke aseleyo abe ngawama tshona.
Ochinx bakholisela khonokho ukuthi, inkosi yabo umgabe ayisaku thonisiswa ngumthethwandaba wonhlaba ngoba uNyongolo evule indlela yoku msula izono zakhe, zokubulala abazali bethu.
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#2337 - 07/21/06 11:48 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Sakhamuzi
Registered: 05/15/06
Posts: 52
Loc: emabhonobono
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Certainly, despite his weaknesses, he still remains a hero. His biggest mistake yikuthi i-approach ayelayo towards amabhunu kazange ayi-aplaye kwabeTshabi. Wasuke waba-tenda for some reason that I'm not aware of. Kodwa ke after learning imbali yakhe, ubuhle lamaphutha, his greatest strength was that wayengesi-oral politician full of seemingly brilliant verbiage but wayephakamela imbono yakhe. Kanti pho ke thina Mthwakazi wanamuhla kungani singaphakameli ama-interests ethu? We always have good critiques ngoMdala kunye labanye and excellent ideas about moving forward but we never seem to want to stand up. This is our greatest weakness and angazi ukuthi iyositshiyaphi.
_________________________
Azinqotshwe
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#2338 - 07/21/06 02:12 PM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Sakhamuzi
Registered: 09/26/04
Posts: 78
Loc: New Zealand
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My belief is that Joshua Nkomo was let down by his top brass.Yena he saw it as his primary duty to be a nationalist and visionary, which was a noble enough intention.However the likes of Dumiso, John, Simon, Thenjiwe, Jane and others did not have the same pressures that Nkomo had.They were supposed to protect our specific regional interests while UMdala dealt with the bigger national issues. Instead our guys became so apologetic and the vile betshabis then overran us. The only guys who did a fantastic job in protecting our interests were Sidney Malunga(igolide lendoda!!!), Jini Ntutha(iqhawe lamaqhawe!!!) and Welshman Mabhena(indoda emadodeni!!!Ikhula lamanono ayo, baba!!!).
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#2339 - 07/22/06 12:57 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Ngqwele
Registered: 10/07/01
Posts: 112
Loc: Bulawayo
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I’m happy to learn that you admit that Joshua Nkomo did a lot of mistakes. Then what is it that makes him great before you? Joshua Nkomo was great for ZANU because he made it possible to have ZANU rule everybody and make Zimbabwe a Shona state.
I’ll point down the mistakes which Joshua Nkomo did and some have highlited these in postings here.
1. Nkomo was nationalist and thought he could rule over everybody.
2. He never bothered to think who we are, the difference in our cultures and preserving them
3. He was career ambitious and wanted to be the leader. But he didn’t understand that. "A leader is he who expresses the wishes of his followers. No sane leader can disregard the voice of his people and supporters."
4. Being a Kalanga he thought every people would accept him as a leader.
5. He lacked intellectual political ability to read between the lines and trusted his enemies ZANU-PF who later betrayed him 2 weeks before the election and told him they were not voting as PF, but separately as ZANU-PF. Nkomo stuck to the PF thinking it will win Zimbabwean hearts but that was a big mistake and he lost the elections.
6. The fact that he stopped Ntumbane irritated a lot of Mthwakazi people. The ZANU-PF would hunt ZAPU freedom fighters down through Gukurawundi and many had to flee to South Africa. Note that these people had nothing to do after a long struggle, but simple to sit in their villages and wait to be hunted down.
7. He never provided protection for them even if he was the minister of Home affairs?
8. Went on to sign a unity agreement with ZANU. Who did he consult with? Who were the people involved in the engineering of this unity accord? Did he ever bother to talk to or address his people? Mthwakazi for him was nothing. Nkomo betrayed his own people.
9. At the Lancaster House he couldn’t even welcome the Ndebele people who came to see him. Some were freedom fighters who were sent to study abroad. When they came he asked them where the Shonas are. They responded we don’t have any Shonas with us. He dismissed them and sent them away accusing them of trying to do tribalism. The Ndebele guys who came to see him could even sit down with him to discuss or listen to the proceedings of Lancaster house.
10. Nkomo never protected his people during Gukurawundi
Joshua Nkomo is a hero to Shonas because he was a Kalanga or Karanga. Kalanga is no different from Shona. I don’t think I see him as a hero for Mthwakazi, I see him as a hero for Zimbabwe because Zimbabwe is part of his history. ZANU has a right to celebrate and honour him because he did what they wanted. I Even on his death bed, he called for unity and peace, i.e. the Shonas, Ndebeles, Kalangas, Nambiya, Tongas, Vendas, etc to live together in Zimbabwe not Mthwakazi.
I trust that those who feel Zimbabweans see him as a hero. Mthwakazi you need to rethink your position in the society.
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#2340 - 07/22/06 02:39 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Sakhamuzi
Registered: 05/12/04
Posts: 87
Loc: Canada
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Asazi bafethu ,
Akusoka lingela sice ....... njalo ngeke bakubuke bonke , thina omjaji sesenzeni okwedlula abehluleki.
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#2343 - 07/23/06 12:55 PM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Mafikizolo
Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 12
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Needless to say the man was a fool.He saw it coming and the cork swallowed the hell out of him.Do we need to recall him from his grave?Whats done is done, look ahead stop dwelling in the past and move on pple  .
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#2345 - 07/24/06 03:53 PM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Ndunankulu
Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 805
Loc: KwaGodlwayo
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It's a shame because you have been brainwashed to think about the Mthwakazi cause as tribalistic and the Zimbabwean hegemony and oppression as national agenda and acceptable therefore must be embraced all. I don't see things your way, when i am talking of Mthwakazi i am talking of a nation, consiting of many different tribes therefore tribalism is only a term used by our enemy to discredit our cause, our cause is a nationalist agenda but on a scale dtermined by us. If nations were nations because of their populations then nations like Swaziland, Botswana and many more would not exist or be simple reduced to tribal groupings, Zimbabwe (Mashonaland) would not be a nation compared to countries like South Africa, Nigeria, Britain, USA etc. Only oppresive regimes whose systems and operations' survival are solely dependent on manipulative majoritarian dictatorship will advocate the use of numbers to sideline other people.
Manotsha i am not in a position to educate you on what Mthwakazi is unless and until reveal your preconceived misperceptions. Explain to me what you think Mthwakazi is and why you that people wouldn't want to be called Mthwakazi, whilst they actual were and still are Mthwakazi.
Your statement is dangerous and reveals your irresponsibility and a lack of sense of duty, loyalty and allegiance to Mthwakazi nation. Time and time again Nkomo has been dehumanised, degraded, despised, deplored and been decreased to nothing only because he belonged to Mthwakazi. He has been called all sorts of names because he was and still is a Mthwakazi.
_________________________
THE RACE IS NOT FOR THE SWIFT NOR THE BATTLE FOR THE STRONG, BUT FOR THOSE WHO ENDURETH.
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#2347 - 07/25/06 08:26 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Ndunankulu
Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 805
Loc: KwaGodlwayo
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You are missing the point by hundred miles, my line of arguement had nothing to do with whether the name Mthwakazi is the right one for the Mthwakazi nation, but it was to do with what Mthwakazi means and consists of, i am sorry to say that i haven't heard of anyone against it, you might be the first one, therefore i think it would be wise for you to suggest a name and give reasons why you are against the current name.
Your definition of nationalist, national, nation, nationalistic differs with mine, yours seems to be emanating deep down from the corridors of oppression and from a well calculated systematic propaganda that has been churned and dished to you as biblical truths.
Now let us start with suggesting a name for our nation and give reasons why the current one is not appropriate, from there maybe we can take this debate to a different level.
_________________________
THE RACE IS NOT FOR THE SWIFT NOR THE BATTLE FOR THE STRONG, BUT FOR THOSE WHO ENDURETH.
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#2350 - 07/25/06 07:58 PM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Ndunankulu
Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 805
Loc: KwaGodlwayo
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Manotsha i am so surprised that you don't know what Mthwakazi is, firstly i am not the originator of the name Mthwakazi, i know that assumptions might be misleading, i was assuming that you knew what Mthwakazi is and i still think that my assumption is correct, but i will make another assumption again, whether i am right or not i do not really mind, take it the way you like, my second assumption is that not all Mthwakazi people know who they are and that the possibility that a number of them are not aware of the origins of the name Mthwakazi does exist, this assumption will help me to attempt to answer your question, but first of all, i would like to say that like everybody else i stand to be corrected as my knowledge is limited in these things.
Alright Mr Manotsha (another assumption again) the name Mthwakazi comes from the word MUTHWA (SAN) the original inhabitants of that land now called Zimbabwe, some of these people are still there in Mthwakazi. Mthwakazi is a name given to a nation that King Mzilikazi had geniously crafted from various ethnic groups, e.g Khalanga, Sotho, Xhosa, Nambya, Tonga, Venda etc.
Mr Manotsha i think you are the one who must tell me what a nation is? You are the one who said Nkomo was a nationalist, define to me what a nation is not in the context of the politically-charged zimbabwean meaning.
_________________________
THE RACE IS NOT FOR THE SWIFT NOR THE BATTLE FOR THE STRONG, BUT FOR THOSE WHO ENDURETH.
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#2351 - 07/25/06 09:16 PM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Ngqwele
Registered: 10/07/01
Posts: 112
Loc: Bulawayo
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Thanks for the explanation of the word Mthwakazi. I appreciate it very much. Yes, now we’re getting somewhere and this is how discussions should be conducted. If I may reflect a little on your description by asking a question. Is it correct or proper to say if you find yourself in a foreign land not your land of origin you should be called by the name of the inhabitants? Or you’re happen to be born in that land, you’d also be called by the name of the inhabitants? For instance, if you found yourself or you’re born in England and started to live there you’d be called English, right? If your answer is yes, then Mthwakazi constitutes everybody living on that land not certain tribes, but everybody. Am I right? Therefore we need to address all tribes in that land and also have these people read, write, listen and learn everything in their mother tongues, right? Since you asked me to explain what a nation is, personally I can’t describe it since it’s a word of Latin origin. But I did my little research and got the following definitions of the word ‘nation’ from the dictionaries. 1. A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country. 2. The government of a sovereign state. 3. A people who share common customs, origins, history, and frequently language; a nationality: There’s also a long but interesting description of the word nation on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation; tels where it is derived from and what it’s meaning is. I think you may want to look at that, too. I just didn't want to post it here.
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#2352 - 07/25/06 10:59 PM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Ndunankulu
Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 805
Loc: KwaGodlwayo
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"If your answer is yes, then Mthwakazi constitutes everybody living on that land not certain tribes, but everybody. Am I right? Therefore we need to address all tribes in that land and also have these people read, write, listen and learn everything in their mother tongues, right?" by Manotsha
I am not sure whether i agree with your questions but i entirely agree with your answer to your questions. The only problem i am having with your statement is that you say we must include everybody or that Mthwakazi constitutes everybody on that land. Which land are you talking about? Do you mean the rest of Zimbabwe including Mthwakazi? If so then i and you will never agree to anything, i am saying Mthwakazi for Mthwakazi and Zimbabwe for Zimbabweans. Zimbabweans must solve their Zimbabwean problems and Mthwakazi must solve its Mthwakazi problems. In Mthwakazi all the tribes will be equal, there would be no majority tribe that will subjugate others, a fair Mthwakazi would be a federated one, where Khalangas will be in a position to decide their own destiny, so would be, all other Mthwakazi tribes.
In your definitions of what a "nation"is, i particularly like number, let me see, all of them, because if you combine them they will definitely describe what Mthwakazi is, that is exactly why i call Mthwakazi a nation, and those who advocate for its liberation and independence are Mthwakazi nationalists. Mthwakazi nationalism is a must in our time. Nkomo might have expoused this queer kind of nationalism but it doesnot mean that those who advocate for a Mthwakazi nationalism are not nationalists.
_________________________
THE RACE IS NOT FOR THE SWIFT NOR THE BATTLE FOR THE STRONG, BUT FOR THOSE WHO ENDURETH.
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#2353 - 07/25/06 11:56 PM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Mafikizolo
Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 28
Loc: US
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It is an insult to say Khalangas are Shonas. Khalangas are Ndebeles. Mzilikazi did not call the nation which he founded Zulus because he knew that it was very diverse and the Khalanga chiefs were one of the most trusted Ndebele chiefs, remember induna yase Mpandeni.
Remember all Mthwakazi people from Kezi Plumtree, Tsholotsho who were massacred by the SHONAs and now Manotsha has the guts to group them together with their worst enemy.
Mzilikazi like Shaka founded a nation from different groups by literally forming unbreakable covalent bonds between them.
1. Manotsha is either a SHONA or one of the many ZANU-PF people who are paid by M_g_axa to antagonize Mthwakazi.
Definitely Manotsha and the likes of JONATHAN MOYO, Geoff NYAROTA, Enos Nkala and Calistus Ndlovu will not succeed in destroying Mthwakazi although they have killed many people.
2. I must mention that the Ndebele people have a strong history of resistance, this explains most probably the reason why to this day they continue to survive despite all this persecution by the Shona people,
although their sense of pride has since been reduced, example we now have people like Manotsha who are now eating and drinking with our nation's worst enemy as salary for demonizing Mthwakazi.
3. As one wise Ndebele(Tonga,Khalanga,Zulu...) put it:
" Phela Bafowethu, you must remember what oppression does to an individual. It is very fatal. Most of all
it creates feelings and an indelible sense of self denial and hate, such that Ndebele people are now
prepared to all speak Shona for the good of one Shona guy in the midst. That is a very serious complex." This was true then and even now, .e.g. Manotsha
4. Futher:
"A Nation is the basic NATURAL collective socio-cultural unit to which one owes his or her true and natural identity, as well as natural loyalty. Its natural and self-evident attributes are "natural nationhood," "natural sovereignty," and "natural Independence."A Nation's most basic natural and self-evident Right is the right of Existence, which translates into a natural Right of Self Determination. The emphasis on "natural" is not glib. "Natural" reminds and assures us of originality, durability and enduring (endearing) characteristics, as well as true ownership. "
Zimbabwe is never a `Nation`, it is in fact a `State
State is fluid and can collapse
BAYEHTE MTHWAKAZI. Mayihlome. Izitha zakho sihlomile. Ezinye ziMpisi ezembethe eseMvu.
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#2356 - 07/26/06 02:31 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Ngqwele
Registered: 10/07/01
Posts: 112
Loc: Bulawayo
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In your previous posting you wrote I quote, “MUTHWA (SAN) the original inhabitants of that land now called Zimbabwe”, some of these people are still there in Mthwakazi. Mthwakazi is a name given to a nation that King Mzilikazi had geniously crafted from various ethnic groups, e.g Khalanga, Sotho, Xhosa, Nambya, Tonga, and Venda etc. “ Well, I don’t know what etc means, but I guess you’d be kind to explain that too.
I’m surprised when you ask me of the land I’m refering to. The answer is in your last posting, #31538 - Tue Jul 25 2006 07:58 PM. Just check it.
I think misconceptions are always dangerous and that is why we have to ask those who have definitions and ideas just to get an understanding/explanation.
But someone to label you as one of the many ZANU-PF people who are paid by M_g_axa to antagonize Mthwakazi is something well unfounded. Mthwakazi0077 mafikizolo, why can’t you face facts and debate on them? Is this a failure or what? I guess we have people of high intellect here. Why can’t you simple answer to questions and carry own the discussion as a civilized person? I know the truth at time is bitter but you have to learn to swallow it like medicine and may be one day you will be healed who knows.
According to your postings Sibambamahawu, I understand well that Mthwakazi doesn’t ONLY constitute the Ndebele people; there are other tribes involved here, right? Saying the truth is not in anyway demonizing, but trying to enlighten our people what clever people like you are trying to put across.
As far as I’m concerned I only ask questions and have those with high intellect answer me. Is that demonizing? I don’t think so. I don’t create anything but try to have the subject matter clarified to the mass. I think the discussion should be related to answering questions not personal attacks. By so doing we all grow to be matured persons with an understanding about the ground we stand in.
I think Mthwakazi007 should stop this tribalism because I don’t think it does well to any people here. You may be Shona and brought up in Bulawayo and speak Ndebele like any other Ndebele so what? Your parents may be mixed Shona-Ndebele so what? Or they maybe Ndebele-Khalanga so what? Or Ndebele-Tonga so what or Ndebele-Venda so what or Ndebele-Suthu so what? We know that our sisters are marrying the Shonas so what? Who doesn’t have a relative married to a Shona? It’s not about what tribe you are; it’s about the evil in you that matters. Our sisters when they marry the Shonas they teach their children Shona because their husbands choose so and our sister have nothing against that. This is freedom of choice, right? I think we should only target the wrong that has been done and correct it and refrain from personal attack because according to the description of Mthwakazi there are a lot of tribes there. We may be hurting some of them.
Thanks Mabila Ndlovukazi, I appreciate your comment. You have clarified one thing I wanted to highlight too. It’s true you may be in that land but that will not make you a MUTHWA (SAN) the original inhabitants of that land now called Zimbabwe but a citizen of Mthwakazi, right Mabila?
Nomangqika uxole Ntandokazi all I’m doing is to conduct this discussion so that we’re all on one page. I think it’s necessary.
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#2358 - 07/26/06 06:25 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Mafikizolo
Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 28
Loc: US
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Manotsha
“mafikizolo” yes, but BEWARE there is no limit in the number of names you can use on this forum.
African politicians and sellouts are known to use the most flowery language to hide their evil agendas and intentions.
Like ZANU-PF ULTRA tribalist you are quick to label others tribalists yet you wrote on the 22 July:
“Being a Kalanga he thought every people would accept him as a leader.” referring to Nkomo
“Joshua Nkomo is a hero to Shonas because he was a Kalanga or Karanga”
“Kalanga is no different from Shona”
The above remarks clearly show that you are also an ULTRA tribalist like your masters in ZANU-PF.
Yet you call others tribalist for simply stating facts.
A tribalist is a person who believes that his tribe is superior to every other ethnic group in his country and therefore deserve to rule.
This is what the SHONAs believe and because of this they formed ZANU-PF because they could not be led by a Ndebele, J. Nkomo. Remember they used to refer to him as “ZimNdevere”
I suggest you read M_g_axabe’s GRAND PLAN.
Isn’t it a fact that there are many people in Mthwakazi who have worked for ZANU-PF to destroy Mthwakazi? And certainly they were paid by M_g_axabe.
Most of them are masked as polite people seeking genuine information.
1.It is clear Manotsha that your intentions are not good. As mentioned before, you are either a SHONA or one of the many ZANU-PF people who are paid to divide Mthwakazi.
2. It is also a fact that the Ndebele people have a strong history of resistance; this explains most probably the reason why to this day they continue to survive despite all this persecution by the Shona people.
The way forward is for Mthwakazi to listen and embrace practical ideas not rhetoric from the so called “intellects” like Manotsha who are only interested in advancing their personal agendas and most of these so called “intellects” turn out to be traitors and destructors impeding any progress Mthwakazi makes towards attaining independence.
Mthwakazi needs to:
1. Identify traitors and destructors and send then to the hall of shame where they belong
2. Mthwakazis need to develop loyalty to Mthwakazi nation and reject Zimbabwe which has brought GENOCIDE and poverty to Mthwakazi
3. Resurrect ZIPRA(or Mthwakazi army) any talk of Mthwakazi independence without a way of demonstrating to M_g_axabe and his tribes man that you are serious might be a worst of valuable time
By the way, the Serbian war criminal Dr. Radovan Karadzic is an intellect too.
Monotsha’s 22 July posting is a clear attempt to demonize J.Nkomo and undo all the good he did, and is full of offensive tribal remarks and it is not different from what ZANU-PF has been preaching for the past 26 years.
A Shona born kwaBulawayo has to simple adopt the language and the culture of the people of kwaBulawayo and blend in with the rest and become a Mthwakazi.
Remember when you say Ndebele you are already referring to the Khalanga, Zulu, Xhosa, Tonga, Nambia, Sotho, Tshwana and all people who immigrated to Mthwakazi from all parts of the world they are also as Mthwakazi as Mzilikazi Mashobana.
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#2359 - 07/26/06 11:58 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Ndunankulu
Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 805
Loc: KwaGodlwayo
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Quote:
I’m happy to learn that you admit that Joshua Nkomo did a lot of mistakes. Then what is it that makes him great before you? Joshua Nkomo was great for ZANU because he made it possible to have ZANU rule everybody and make Zimbabwe a Shona state.
I’ll point down the mistakes which Joshua Nkomo did and some have highlited these in postings here.
1. Nkomo was nationalist and thought he could rule over everybody.
2. He never bothered to think who we are, the difference in our cultures and preserving them
** Are you a part of us as well?
3. He was career ambitious and wanted to be the leader. But he didn’t understand that. "A leader is he who expresses the wishes of his followers. No sane leader can disregard the voice of his people and supporters."
4. Being a Kalanga he thought every people would accept him as a leader.
5. He lacked intellectual political ability to read between the lines and trusted his enemies ZANU-PF who later betrayed him 2 weeks before the election and told him they were not voting as PF, but separately as ZANU-PF. Nkomo stuck to the PF thinking it will win Zimbabwean hearts but that was a big mistake and he lost the elections.
6. The fact that he stopped Ntumbane irritated a lot of Mthwakazi people. The ZANU-PF would hunt ZAPU freedom fighters down through Gukurawundi and many had to flee to South Africa. Note that these people had nothing to do after a long struggle, but simple to sit in their villages and wait to be hunted down.
***So all along you have been playing gimmicks pretending as if you did know who Mthwakazi is, a people like you deserve to be ridiculed and derided.
7. He never provided protection for them even if he was the minister of Home affairs?
*** Whom are you refering to here? You see to be a king of contradictions, you contradict yourself throughout your postings, at one time, you see Mthwakazi and Zimbabwe as one, and that their problems must be solved using one solution, but at the sametime you accusse Nkomo of not protecting them, meaning that two different nations existed or still exist. Don't contradict yourself mate, if you are a cio say it loud and clear, we will treat you like a cio, for now make our work very difficult, because you behave like one but we are not sure whether you are one.
8. Went on to sign a unity agreement with ZANU. Who did he consult with? Who were the people involved in the engineering of this unity accord? Did he ever bother to talk to or address his people? Mthwakazi for him was nothing. Nkomo betrayed his own people. 9.
*** What are you really trying to say Mr Manotsha?, so you know who Mthwakazi is? Come out clear Mr Malotsha.
At the Lancaster House he couldn’t even welcome the Ndebele people who came to see him. Some were freedom fighters who were sent to study abroad. When they came he asked them where the Shonas are. They responded we don’t have any Shonas with us. He dismissed them and sent them away accusing them of trying to do tribalism. The Ndebele guys who came to see him could even sit down with him to discuss or listen to the proceedings of Lancaster house.
*** Mr Malotsha are infering? are you saying that it was good for Nkomo to dismiss Ndebeles as tribalists?, or are you saying that Nkomo made a mistake by being a nationalist in the sense that sees Shona nationalism as national?
10. Nkomo never protected his people during Gukurawundi
Joshua Nkomo is a hero to Shonas because he was a Kalanga or Karanga. Kalanga is no different from Shona. I don’t think I see him as a hero for Mthwakazi, I see him as a hero for Zimbabwe because Zimbabwe is part of his history.
*** Another one of your uninformed contradictions.
ZANU has a right to celebrate and honour him because he did what they wanted. I Even on his death bed, he called for unity and peace, i.e. the Shonas, Ndebeles, Kalangas, Nambiya, Tongas, Vendas, etc to live together in Zimbabwe not Mthwakazi.
I trust that those who feel Zimbabweans see him as a hero. Mthwakazi you need to rethink your position in the society.
*** Do you really mean this? If you do then you are my kind of man, a man who wants to usher in a complete different political dispensation for Mthwakazi. Do you believe that Mthwakazi needs to be an independent state?
_________________________
THE RACE IS NOT FOR THE SWIFT NOR THE BATTLE FOR THE STRONG, BUT FOR THOSE WHO ENDURETH.
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#2360 - 07/26/06 02:39 PM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Ngqwele
Registered: 10/07/01
Posts: 112
Loc: Bulawayo
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Mabila: I understand what you write about Mthwakazi working at extracting itself from present day Zimbabwe. However, at the same time I feel that the people on that land should be educated enough to know why, and see the benefits they will get. I’m not saying you’re practicing tribalism don’t get me wrong. All I’m addressing here are issues related to different ethnic groups, like marriage, education, e.g. simply the freedoms to exercise your rights like listening to the radio station n your own language which I feel you should look at. I think if some of the issues are not looked at seriously they will come up sooner or later and have no one to resolve them due to their complexity. We can always straighten things when we have the opportunity to.
Mthwakazi0077 Labeling you as what you are Khalanga or Tonga or Shona is not tribalism. It’s simple stating the facts. It’s known that khalanga is like Shona, who doesn’t know that. You’re what you are and should be proud of your tribe. The use of derogative names is of-course wrong. Nkomo was a Khalanga and I don’t think he would be ashamed of that. Mandela is Xhosa not Zulu and I think he’s proud of that, too. It’s quite known that the two groups Ndebele-Shona were at each other’s thoughts in the struggle but Nkomo kind of stood there in the middle and got acceptance from all sides because of his leadership skills because they sort of understood him well. I’d be happy to read the grand plan, haven’t seen it yet. As I pointed out you need to address the issues in your lands and see how you can move forward because you’re not tribalists and would like to embrace all tribes on that land. I feel Mthwakazi0077, you’re simply fail to address the issues at hand and look for unnecessary accusations. Just hit the nail at the head and stop going around the topic.
I’m not sure when write I quote “Remember when you say Ndebele you are already referring to the Khalanga, Zulu, Xhosa, Tonga, Nambia, Sotho, Tshwana...” This may not be a true statement because Ndebele is a language just like Xhosa, Tonga Nambia and Sotho, right? I’d expect Tonga people to speak Tonga at home with their families not Ndebele. I find them more Tonga than Ndebele if you understand me, right?
Sibambamahawu: I believe in tackling the subject matter. I’m quite aware that there’s an effort to bring people to the so-called Mthwakazi, but if people have no full understanding of what it is, the motives behind, it would be difficult to get people aboard. Let’s just tackle issues and concerns here and stop insulting (or ridiculing and deriding as you put it). I just know Mthwakazi as a name and that’s why I asked for it’s full explanation, which you provided willingly. So we can’t jump around one thing but move forward. I think you described what Mthwakazi it is and am not sure if everyone agrees with that definition anyway, but a good survey/vote would clarify it to see if it’s understood and accepted.
I think you’re quick to label someone as a traitor and a destructor when he/she requests clarification of things. That’s not the way to do things and very unfair. People have a right to know and all you need to do is provide that information. It shouldn’t be hard to do that if you have it upstairs.
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#2361 - 07/27/06 05:03 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Mafikizolo
Registered: 12/08/05
Posts: 28
Loc: US
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Mthwakazi
I strongly feel that we are doing the Mthwakazi founding father and Mthwakazi a big disservice by being docile in the face of all the oppression and impoverishment which our people have been subjected to for the past 26.
It was a big mistake to disarm ZIPRA knowing that M_g_axabe and his people had been preparing for a show down with ZAPU from the time they started throwing stones and burning ZAPU offices in Zambia.
BUT IT IS NOW TIME TO MOVE FORWARD.
We need to form parties and movements which will vigorously seek Mthwakazi independence. However for these parties to positively serve Mthwakazi and for them to be taken serious by Mthwakazi they need to:
1. Clearly state their aims and objectives and state clearly how they plan to archive them.
In other words they should have a direction and a viable plan/plans(A and B)
2. If the party is formed in exile(out side Mthwakazi) then it needs to quickly establish strong connections at home
(if it is only a party in the US or UK then how is it going to serve the interests of people in Mthwakazi if it does not have representatives in all Mthwakazi regions ?)
3. Transparency is paramount,
4. Respect and acceptance of every party member’s opinion is also a prerequisite
5. Members should stop cowardice and defend their ideas in public not only behind closed doors
YOUR PARTIES MUST NOT BREED DICTATORS WHO WILL LATER ON TERRORIZE Mthwakazi
A survey shows that people in Mthwakazi want to be independent, the Zimbabwe they have sacrificed so much for has paid them with GENOCIDE and poverty.
However they need PROTECTION from M_ag_axabe, we all know what he is capable of, the very time they start clamoring for independence he will unleash his army to murder ALL of them. He has done it before and if nothing is done he will do it again.
*** A Mthwakazi Protection Force needs to be formed and trained without delay*******
Note that this will be used to PROTECT Mthwakazi against the danger which we all know.
This force will then be part of the Mthwakazi armed forces.
Any talk of Mthwakazi independence without a force to counteract aggression from Mga_xabe is a waste of time. There is only one language which Mugabe and his people understand, that is force. A Mthwakazi Protection Force (MPF) will demonstrate to Mga_xabe Mthwakazi’s seriousness and determination.
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#2362 - 07/27/06 10:07 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Ndunankulu
Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 805
Loc: KwaGodlwayo
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MMmmmmmmmmmm, uyasho baba, what you have said is undeniably true. We don't need Mthwakazi to be a breeding ground for tyranny by breeding ontando ayiphikiswa, but at this formative stage i believe that we need a very strong minded leader, a leader with vision, strategy, values etc, a leader who can not be easily swayed or derailed from his/her course of action, this must not be confused with dictatorship. A strong leader does listen to his/her followers, it would be a great mistake for us to create another Mqabuko, but i believe that we must build another Nkomo in a sort of different form, we need a leader with abilities to organise, galvanise support, inspire, emotionalise, influence and manipulate peoples' opinions and circumstances.
Although this is a very sensitive issue, i believe that every Mthwakazi knows very well that the only way to self-governance will be through the barrel of the gun, but just jumping into that before establishing the necessary groundwork support is tatamount to suicide. This is a venture that needs careful planning and precise execution. This must be the last option, after all political options have been exhuasted, but this does not stop me and you from starting to mobilise, plan and if you might like to establish an "MPF" clandestinely, political processes must be supplemented by clandestine military moves. There is no Mthwakazi state that will ever come or be free without fighting, those who want Mthwakazi to be free must start psychologically conditioning themselves for the unavoidable eventuality. But the truth must be said, it is not an easy job to build such a force, the greatest problem is that people do not know each other, therefore in order for me and you to trust each other and establish such kind of a force we need to belong to a same movement for over a period of time, you need to assess me and i need to assess you, this can be done, it must be done and it shall be done.
5. Members should stop cowardice and defend their ideas in public not only behind closed doorsby Mthwakazi007
This is interesting indeed, how could people claim to be a movement, political party or whatever animal if they can't come out and defend that ideas in public, this to me is equal to perpetuating the notion that for one to seek his liberation or freedom is a treasonable charge. Although in terms of *******'s laws it could be the case, but as long as we tore the line or follow this line of thinking we are criminalising our cause. I believe that we have to be careful, patient, cautious and foresighted but if this turns all our intentions to cowardice then we have to go back to the drawingboard and revisit our strategies.
_________________________
THE RACE IS NOT FOR THE SWIFT NOR THE BATTLE FOR THE STRONG, BUT FOR THOSE WHO ENDURETH.
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#2367 - 07/31/06 07:48 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Sakhamuzi
Registered: 09/26/04
Posts: 78
Loc: New Zealand
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Lest we forget
The liberation struggle in Zimbabwe was fought on the basis of a national struggle.History will show us never at any stage did ZAPU define itself as representing the interests of UMTHWAKAZI exclusively.In hindsight this was unfortunate.In 1980 the vile betshabi took the fullest advantage of our nationalist outlook by redefining Zimbabwe as belonging to the shonas.While we were focussed on a national war aimed at national gains, the betshabis always had other ideas.If Joshua Nkomo made one big mistake it was placing a lot of trust in such untrustworthy people.A diplomat to the very end, he even avoided dwelling on this issue in his book "Nkomo-the story of my life." However by that time he was fully aware of the fact that he had been taken for a ride. The late Professor Masipula Sithole (one of the harshest critics of Joshua Nkomo in his lifetime) observed in his obituary on Nkomo that there was so much widespread grief about Nkomo in areas like mashonaland, masvingo and manicaland because those people(Masipula included) realised that they had let down the one genuine leader who had a legitimate right to rule Zimbabwe.Ingqobe isisele kithi.Yebo UNkomo made his mistakes.We should learn from them.It is now up to us to redefine our struggle and make it relevant to our situation.Kukhulwa kokuphela.Sesifundile.Singekela ukuqaphelisa bazasiphinda abetshabi.Olezembe kagadle!!!
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#2370 - 08/24/06 03:25 AM
Re: How should we remember Nkomo?
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Nkosi
Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 2123
Loc: Ayowa
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Quote:
It is an insult to say Khalangas are Shonas. Khalangas are Ndebeles. Mzilikazi did not call the nation which he founded Zulus because he knew that it was very diverse and the Khalanga chiefs were one of the most trusted Ndebele chiefs, remember induna yase Mpandeni.
Remember all Mthwakazi people from Kezi Plumtree, Tsholotsho who were massacred by the SHONAs and now Manotsha has the guts to group them together with their worst enemy.
Mzilikazi like Shaka founded a nation from different groups by literally forming unbreakable covalent bonds between them.
1. Manotsha is either a SHONA or one of the many ZANU-PF people who are paid by M_g_axa to antagonize Mthwakazi. 2. I must mention that the Ndebele people have a strong history of resistance, this explains most probably the reason why to this day they continue to survive despite all this persecution by the Shona people,
although their sense of pride has since been reduced, example we now have people like Manotsha who are now eating and drinking with our nation's worst enemy as salary for demonizing Mthwakazi.
3. As one wise Ndebele(Tonga,Khalanga,Zulu...) put it:
" Phela Bafowethu, you must remember what oppression does to an individual. It is very fatal. Most of all
it creates feelings and an indelible sense of self denial and hate, such that Ndebele people are now
prepared to all speak Shona for the good of one Shona guy in the midst. That is a very serious complex." This was true then and even now, .e.g. Manotsha
4. Futher:
"A Nation is the basic NATURAL collective socio-cultural unit to which one owes his or her true and natural identity, as well as natural loyalty. Its natural and self-evident attributes are "natural nationhood," "natural sovereignty," and "natural Independence."A Nation's most basic natural and self-evident Right is the right of Existence, which translates into a natural Right of Self Determination. The emphasis on "natural" is not glib. "Natural" reminds and assures us of originality, durability and enduring (endearing) characteristics, as well as true ownership. "
Zimbabwe is never a `Nation`, it is in fact a `State
State is fluid and can collapse
BAYEHTE MTHWAKAZI. Mayihlome. Izitha zakho sihlomile. Ezinye ziMpisi ezembethe eseMvu.
_________________________
Ask not what Mthwakazi can do for you. Ask what you can do for Mthwakazi.
It is not my responsibility to finish the work, but I have to start it!
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