Bafowethu

The biggest risk facing Mthwakazians(like all other nations) is the twin evils of HIV/AIDS.
The question which arises is what causes AIDS? Is it caused by HIV? What is the role of poverty in HIV/AIDS?
Thabo Mbeki backed by Nobel winning world renowned scientist says that AIDS and poverty are inter-related. His contention is that where poverty is high (eg Sub-Saharan Africa), the level of HIV/AIDS tends to be high as well. Where poverty is low (eg Japan & Western Europe), HIV/AIDS is also low. Within a country eg in South Africa, where poverty is high (in black townships)HIV/AIDS is also high. Where poverty is low (white surbubs) HIV/AIDS is also low.

Gents, iam mindful of the fact that virtually all our families have been touched by this pandemic. Hence we need to gain a better understanding through sharing know-how. Here in this very forum I know that there is a couple of leading Mthwakazian biologists (one of whom was my school mate at high school least some of you get shocked). Gentleman we need your esteemed input in this invisible enemy of our nation called HIV/AIDS. What do you guys see in your experiments in laboratries? Kindly give us an exprt's view on this issue.

HIV is the virus that causes Aids

"The acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS) is characterized by the progressive loss of the CD4+ helper/inducer subset of T lymphocytes, leading to severe immunosuppression and constitutional disease, neurological complications, and opportunistic infections and neoplasms that rarely occur in persons with intact immune function. Although the precise mechanisms leading to the destruction of the immune system have not been fully delineated, abundant epidemiologic, virologic and immunologic data support the conclusion that infection with the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) is the underlying cause of AIDS ."

"HIV and AIDS have been repeatedly linked in time, place and population group; the appearance of HIV in the blood supply has preceded or coincided with the occurrence of AIDS cases in every country and region where AIDS has been noted. Among individuals without HIV, AIDS-like symptoms are extraordinarily rare, even in populations with many AIDS cases."

Lobengula, we probably can say that proverty also plays a big role in the cause of AIDS; poor people are more likely to be less educated about AIDS prevention, and they are less likely to buy condoms instead of basic survival goods.

1) Do condoms really prevent AIDS, or should I say by how much do they really reduce the risk of being HIV infected?

2) Can someone who has unprotected sex with an infected person stand the slightest of chances of escaping infection?

3) How many strains of HIV are worldwide, do we have different strains in "Zimbabwe"?

4) Is it relevant where the HIV virus originated, green monkey in Central Africa or US army labs in Maryland? Would having the right knowledge mean we will stand a better chance of finding a cure?

THANKS GUYS FOR BRINGING UP THE HIV/AIDS ISSUE WHICH IS AFFECTING EVERY CONTINENT AND SCIENTISTS ARE BATTLING EACH DAY TO FIND A CURE OR A VACCINE.BHUDAS HIV HAS MANY STRAINS THUS WHY IT IS DIFFICULT FOR SCIENTISTS TO FIND A CURE AND IT KEEPS CHANGING(MUTATING).USING CONDOMS SENSIBLY REDUCES RISK OF INFECTION.IF YOU HAVE SEX WITH AN HIV POSITIVE INDIVIDUAL WITHOUT PRECAUTIONS YOU ARE LIKELY TO CONTRACT HIV TOO,BUT YOU CAN HAVE A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP WITH SOMEONE WHOS HIV POSITIVE AS LONG AS YOU TAKE PRECATIONS.IAM DELIGHTED TO LET YOU KNOW THAT WE HAVE BABIES BORN FROM HIV POSITIVE MOTHERS WHO ARE NEGATIVE AND WELL BECAUSE OF THE ANTI VIRAL DRUGS IF ONLY MGABE AND CO WERE NOT CORRUPT ALL THE MONEY COLLECTED FROM TAX PAYERS IN ZIMBA AS AIDS LEVY COULD BE USED TO BUY DRUGS.COUNTRIES LIKE RSA ARE BENEFITING FROM LOCALLY MADE RETROVIRAL DRUGS.ITIS NOT REALLY RELEVANT TO KNOW THE ORIGINS OF THIS DISEASE BUT FOR INTEREST A VIRUS SUSPECTED TO BE HIV IS BELIEVED TO HAVE KILLED 100S OF MINERS IN USA IN THE 70S AND IN EARLY 80S IT WAS DISCOVERED IN FRANCE.THERE IS HIV1 AND HIV2 AT PRESENT,HIV1 IS THE COMMONEST AND VERY INFECTIOUS WHEREAS HIV2 IS FOUND IN WEST AFRICA AND LESS INFECTIOUS.IN ZIMBA OUR MAIN PROBLEMS ARE IGNORANCE,POVERTY AND OFFCOURSE MGABE. GUYS AND LADIES LETS WORK TOGETHER TO REDUCE INFECTION RATES HAVE ONE SEXUAL PARTNER,USE CONDOMS OR ABSTAIN COMPLETELY AIDS/HIV HAS NO CURE THE DRUGS ONLY SUPPRESS SYMPTOMS.

Bobaba labo dadewethu

Iyajabulisa indlela abantu bakwa Mthwakazi abahluza ngayo lindaba yesifo sika gawulayo lempethu zayo. Luulu , Bhudi, lawe Xolo qhubekani liyihlaza lindaba emqoka. Kulabo cwephetshe (specialists) bakwaMthwakazi kwezabo sosayensi(sciences)sicela imibono yabo ephakemeyo njalo ehloniphekayo labo.

uManto abesethi kabadle i lettuce le Olive oil le mbambayila abantu eJozi bazo sila!

Lobengula poses the proverbial 64 million dollar question – Does HIV cause aids? This is a question that has exercised and continues to exercise minds and intellects far greater than my own. Be that as it may I will add my two cents worth to the discussion.
AIDS – acquired immunodeficieny syndrome; acquired because it is not inherited, immune deficiency because it weakens the body;s ability to resist infection and syndrome because it is a collection of symptoms. There is no doubt that conventional wisdom and popular consensus leave one in no doubts – namely that HIV causes AIDS. Consequently there has been the growth of a billion dollar (US$) industry into HIV cure/treatment. There however remains a few questions and concerns raised by prominent scientists that are referred to in the above posts. Before we address what those concerns are a little detour is required here inorder to get to understand how we came to be where we are now.

When the symptoms of that are characteristic of what we now know as AIDS were observed in the mid-late 1970s, these were predominantly if not exclusively found in the homosexual community such that the disease was called GRIDS – Gay Related Immunodeficieny Syndrome this was latter changed to AIDS when it was found that the disease also presented in the heterosexual population. Be that as it may, the race was on to discover the causative agent of this hither-to unknown diseased. To cut to the chase, two groups were at the fore front of this race – one headed by Luc Montagnier at the Pasteur Institute in France and another by Robert Gallo in the USA. Again to cut to the chase, Robert Gallo announced to the world at large that he had discovered the causative agent for AIDS in 1983/4. what was odd about his announcement was that it was made BEFORE the results of his study were published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Moreover controversy soon raged between Gallo and Montagnier when it was alleged that Gallo had “found” the HIV in a sample given to him by Montagnier!! If memory serves me well, Montagnier claimed that he was the first to discover the HIV. The whole who ha was dragged to the courts and I am not sure whether to this day that the issue has been resolved but I digresss…

It would therefore appear that the announcement that HIV causes AIDS by Gallo was fateful in that the association of HIV with AIDS was embedded in the public mind and domain

Those that seek to challenge the HIV /AIDS association do so on a number of fronts including (but not restricted to) :-

1 the virus HIV was not isolated and purified by neither Gallo or Montagnier. Rather they used a marker protein ( that is a protein associated with retroviruses) [reverse transcriptase] as evidence of retroviral infection. Clearly demonstration of the presence of this protein in infected cells is not the same as isolating and purifying the virus.

2 If AIDS is an epidemic then it should infect and affect members of society in purely random manner such that levels of infection should be distributed equally amongst male and female of the species. However HIV infection particularly in the WESTERn epidemic is predominantly found in the male homesexual community. The figures as of December 2002 for Sub-Saharan Africa, North America, Western Europe, Australia and New Zealand attest to this. (Please note that these figures were derived from a table listed in the website http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0800505.html)

Sub-Saharan Africa –
Disease started late '70s/early '80s
Adults and children living with HIV/Aids -29.4 million
Newly infected (Adults and Children) 3.5 million
Adult prevalence rate-8.8%
Percent HIV-positive adults who are women- 58%

Western Europe
Disease started- late-'70s–early '80s
Adults and children living with HIV/Aids 570,000
Newly infected (Adults and Children 30,000
Adult prevalence rate 0.3%
Percent HIV-positive adults who are women-25%

North America
Disease started late '70s–early '80s
Adults and children living with HIV/Aids 980,000
Newly infected (Adults and Children-45,000
Adult prevalence rate 0.6%
Percent HIV-positive adults who are women-20%

Australia & New Zealand
Disease started late '70s–early '80s
Adults and children living with HIV/Aids -15,000
Newly infected (Adults and Children)-500
Adult prevalence rate 0.1%
Percent HIV-positive adults who are women-7%


Attention is drawn to the fact that this data for North America, Europe, Australia and New Zealand shows that overwhelmingly the marjority of HIV positive individuals in these regions are male where the main mode of transmission is male to male sexula contact. This suggests that the epidemic is infecting the population in a non random manner. The African Aids epidemic is a different “beast” (for the lack of better word) and will be dealt with below, though the figures show that the marjority of those infected in sub-Saharan Africa are female. Even more confounding with respect to these data is the implicit suggestion that having unprotected sexual intercourse (hetero) in Africa puts you at a higher risk of contracting HIV than carrying out the same activity in say North America !! Here is a disease that can apparently distinguish on which continent one is having unprotected sexual intercourse as well as whether that contact is heterosexual or homosexual !!!!!!! (truly remarkable!!)

3 The African Aids epidemic – above there is the illustration of the distinction of the epidemic on the continent of Africa and the “Western” epidemic. For a start the epidemic in Africa is largely a heterosexual disease and secondly the virus (HIV-2) that mediates African HIV infection is a alleged to be a different strain to the Western one (HIV-1). The problems with the epidemic in Africa include that :-
a) for a large proportion of the time diagnosis of AIDS was based on a clinical diagnosis, that is if you displayed the symptoms of AIDS youe were said to be infected with the virus. Now if you look at the list of diseases that are symptomatic of HIV/AIDS one sees that these are diseases that have been killing Africans in large numbers for a long period of time.
b) secondly, the antibody tests that are used to test for HIV infection are not as reliable as people think they are. There is a great likelihood of these tests giving false positive results ( that is an individual test is shown to be positive when in fact that person is not infected with the virus)

4) The mutability of HIV. A contributor above mentions that the HIV mutates rapidly which accounts for the difficulty in finding a cure. This mutability is another bone of contention- it is well known that HIV is a retrovirus. Its genetic make up is known to similar to that of other retroviruses – now since its genetic make up is not distinct the question is where does this ability to mutate reside?
The concerns listed above are justa tip of the iceberg of those raised by individuals who question the link between HIV and AIDS. More detailed information and concerns can be found at these websites :-
http://www.duesberg.com/index.html
http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/index.htm

And so to return to the original question – Does HIV cause AIDS, one must admit that after reading through much of the material where the link between HIV and AIDs is questioned, doubts have been sown in my mind about this link. In that respect Thabo Mebki had every justification and right in raising and bring this issue to the fore!!

Jazi

Hatshi mfana kaMdluli uyitshaya ekhanda indaba yesifo sika gawulayo (AIDS) lo gciwane (HIV) lwayo ngendlela abo sosayensi (scientists) view it.
One interesting point you allude to above is the fact that:

"the antibody tests that are used to test for HIV infection are not as reliable as people think they are. There is a great likelihood of these tests giving false positive results ( that is an individual test is shown to be positive when in fact that person is not infected with the virus)"

This revelation is quite astounding because a lot of AIDS related deaths result from people who commit suicide after having been told that they test HIV positive. Some people even go to the extent of aggravating the situation by going all systems out to spread the disease by engaging on unprotected sex. Now kindly expand a bit on this point which i hope a lot of people (particularly those who have tested positive)will find quite intriguing indeed.

While still on this AIDS issue wena kaMdluli, can you kindly highlight to this forum how safe is the so-called "blow-job" because I know amajaha amanengi they partake it without the requisite protective measure.

Lastly it is interesting to note that the leading disputant dissident scientist Prof Peter Duesberg (who disputes the link between HIV & AIDS) is a member of president Thabo Mbeki's AIDS advisory council of scientists.
Mfowethu siyawubonga umsebenzi owenzayo ngokusiza uMthwakazi.

Bhudi

But bhudas you must remember that some of the information we get here for free, some people have to pay consultation fees to get it in hospitals and private practitioners. Equally if I happen to work for a financial consultancy firm (which derives fees from consultancy) and I dish out free financial advice to my fellow Mthwakazians, that is a contractual trasgression. The same applies to you Bhudas, if you work in a medical practice, your partners can find you contractually liable for dishing out free advice to the public while you draw a salary from their advice which they offer at a fee.

Bottom line is, the we must appreciate the professional advice we get here in this forum for free. We must remember such information is provided in good faith with Mthwakazians at heart. So as such we must appreciate and thank abafowethu who have taken their precious time to bring much needed professional advice to us as a nation. Umfowethu uMdluli has shown in no uncertain terms that he can rise above the petty politics of tribalism and deliver the much needed (and unaffordable)scientific know-how to his people. Ukubamabana is the answer bafowethu.
By so saying iam in no way suggesting that where people differ ideological or intellectually they must be compelled or coerced to an agreement, no not all. Differences of opinion are very much welcome more-so in this forum because this is the cross-roads of ideas. It is the nerve centre of disparate ideas. Cross-polination of ideas is the way to go Bhudas.

Lobengula - oral sex does not preclude the transmission of HIV if one or both of the partners are infected with the virus. The risk associated with this practice is lower than that associated with normal heterosexual actvity. Again the take home message is that if one was to engage in practise of oral sex then the same rules of using and taking appropriate protection apply.THAT CANNOT BE OVEREMPHASIZED.

On the issue of AIDs dissidents, the marjority of these people are not mavericks or charlatans, they happent to be experts and renowned scientists in their own right who make sound scientific arguments.

Bhudas - Tests for HIV infection are based on the measurement of the presence of antibodies to the virus HIV. Essentially antibodies are proteins produced by your body's immune system (defence mechanism) in response to the presence of foreign bodies (in this case HIV) in the body. The factors that contribute to the unreliability of the tests include :
1 the tests ( particularly one called the ELISA)are not specific - that is there is a whole range of other components that may interfere with the test. These "components" include but are not restricted to; tuberculosis, malaria, and leprosy. That is one could simply be infected with malaria and when one is tested for HIV the results would come up as positive. Some components of yeast/s also cause false positive results, but I would not go as far as saying that umuntu onatha amasese would at greater risk.

2 Africans are exposed to a whole host of diseases and infections in their day to day lives and as such ther have relatively high levels of antibodies in their systems. And simply put, the higher the levles of antibody the greater the likelihood of cross reactvity that is , the greater the likelihood of a false positive result


At last but by no means the least, it is unfortunate that you should choose to believe that bengifuna ukuncengwa ukuze ngi contribute my two cents worth to this thread. My contribution to the thread came at a time as and when my commitments allowed and not because of a some imagined plea. You would also do well to disabuse yourself of the notion that I am in this forum to fight "inqumo zabantu kulinkundla" I am simply here to express my opinion/s which I stand by and make no apologies for.

WHAT THE EXPERTS SAY…

>"AIDS is truly an iatrogenic disaster of the primary magnitude. By ‘iatrogenic’, we mean that clinical AIDS is a syndrome that is primarily being caused in the Western World now by doctors and their medicine. I’m not sure what’s more terrifying: that this state of affairs continues to exist at all in spite of all the obvious evidence, or that the English language actually has a word for it." - - Newly Abbott, political researcher

>"Such evidence up till now has never been produced for HIV. No photograph of an isolated HIV particle has ever been published... No control experiments as mentioned have been published to date. What has been shown are photographs of virus-like particles in cell cultures, but none of isolated viruses, let alone a structure within the human body having the shape ascribed to HIV." - Dr Stefan Lanka in HIV: Reality or Artefact

>"In truth, AZT makes you feel like you’re dying. That’s because on AZT you are. How can a deadly cell toxin conceivably make you feel better as it finishes you, by stopping your cells from dividing, by ending this vital process that distinguishes living things from dead things? Not for nothing does AZT come with a skull and cross-bones label when packaged for laboratory use." - Anthony Brink, AIDS researcher

>"It’s not even probable, let alone scientifically proven, that HIV causes AIDS. If there is evidence that HIV causes AIDS, there should be scientific documents which either singly or collectively demonstrate that fact.… There are no such documents." - Dr Kary Mullis, Nobel Laureate for Chemistry

>"But there was never really to my mind, and I have looked at this very closely now, evidence of a new virus actually being isolated…. I think, like myself, in that second half of the 1980s, it was a great story and we took it on board as a kind of public health emergency too. And that’s a danger with any group of professionals, whether they are media workers or scientists, to get too close to the sort of propagandising that happened with AIDS. We lost our sense of judgement, I’m afraid on this issue, because we felt that sense of fear and urgency. It was like a war and in those circumstances the critical judgement went out of the window for too many of us." - Neville Hodgkinson, former science and medical correspondent for the London Times

>"If you think a virus is the cause of AIDS, do a control without it. To do a control is the first thing you teach undergraduates. But it hasn’t been done. The epidemiology of AIDS is a pile of anecdotal stories selected to fit the virus-AIDS hypothesis. People don’t bother to check the details of popular dogma or consensus views." - Professor Peter H Duesberg, University of California, Berkeley

>"The [HIV] hypothesis has become all things to all people. It violates everything we previously knew about virus disease, and allows any kind of therapy, any kind of research, to generate research bucks. What kind of science continues to place all its marbles, all its faith, all its research dollars, in such a theory? The answer I keep coming back to is that it has nothing to do with science; the reasons are all unscientific. We have taken sex and equated it with death, and into that mixture we have thrown money. What an ugly stew." – Dr Harvey Bialy, editor Bio/Technology

>"HIV imprinting has become subconsciously internalised on such a global scale that people will not be able to accept the brute reality that HIV does not exist." - Alex Russell, assistant editor Continuum Magazine

>"With public health officials and politicians thrashing out who should be tested for HIV, the accuracy of the test itself has been nearly ignored. A study last month by Congress’s Office of Technology Assessment found that HIV tests can be very inaccurate indeed. For groups at very low risk - people who don’t use IV drugs or have sex with gay or bisexual men - 9 in 10 positive findings are called false positives, indicating infection where none exists." - US News & World Report, 23rd November 1987

>"In the September 4th issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association [JAMA], the CDC announced that a diagnosis of AIDS no longer requires an AIDS test. The government now considers you are an AIDS carrier if you suffer from any of the maladies on its new list of diseases indicative of AIDS, including such relatively common infections as herpes simplex, tuberculosis, Salmonellosis and a shockingly broad ‘other bacterial infections’. This broad definition will lead to countless new AIDS diagnoses - whether or not the person actually has AIDS." - Los Angeles Weekly, 18th December 1987

>"It is beyond belief. I don’t know what to do. I’m ashamed of my colleagues. I’m embarrassed. This is such shoddy science. It’s hard to believe nobody’s protesting. Damned cowards! The name of the game is to protect your grants. Don’t open your mouth. It’s all about money. It’s grounds for just following the party line and not being critical when there are obvious financial and political forces that are driving this." – Dr Joseph Sonnabend, AIDS researcher

>"In pregnant women treated with AZT at a hospital in India, Kumar et al. report a shocking number of therapeutic and spontaneous abortions, and of the live births, a number of grotesque birth defects included holes in the chest, abnormal indentations at the base of the spine, misplaced ears, mis-shapen faces, heart defects, extra digits and albinism." - Kumar et al., Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes, 7:1034-9, 1994

>"I have worked as a medical science reporter for 30 years. I began this career at age 22. I’ve interviewed thousands of scientists for newspaper and magazine stories, radio and television productions, and books. I’ve met many scientists who at least try to keep an open and fair mind on scientific issues. I have also met many propagandists who think they’re scientists. In all the time I’ve worked as a journalist, I’ve never come across a nastier group of people to interview than those propagandists who work in HIV research." - Nicholas Regush, "Second Opinion", ABC News

>"Families just bring [children] as orphans, and if you ask how the parents died they will say AIDS. It is fashionable nowadays to say that, because it brings money and support. If you say your father has died in a car accident it is bad luck, but if he has died from AIDS there is an agency to help you. The local people have seen so many agencies coming, called AIDS support programs, that they want to join this group of victims. Everybody claims to be a victim of AIDS nowadays. And local people working for AIDS agencies have become rich. They have built homes in Dar es Salaam, they have their motorbikes; they have benefited a lot...

We have everybody coming here now, the World Bank, the churches, the Red Cross, the UN Development Program, the African Medical Research Foundation, about 17 organizations reportedly doing something for AIDS in Kagera. It brings jobs, cars; the day there is no more AIDS, a lot development is going to go away....

You don't need AIDS patients to have an AIDS epidemic nowadays, because what is wrong doesn't need to be proved. Nobody checks; AIDS exists by itself." – Philippe Krynen, director of ‘Partage’, an organisation dedicated to supporting sick and displaced families (and especially children) in Tanzania
:confused

News bulletins seem to suggest this Gallo guy made his announcement exactly 20 years ago today. What a coincidence!

So what the hell is it that is killing people? Sai your post does cause confusion indeed. Whilest I appreciate the renegades givving th e other side I await a solution as to how people can avoid AIDS in their day to day lives. Do these renegades advocate so called safe sex as a preventative measure as well?

I am not in the same school of thought as the above reasoning. AIDs and HIV are real...Be aware don't be fooled. It is killing us in numbers and droves like amawuwu in a sprayed kitchen

HIV IS A VIRUS AND AIDS IS A CONDITION

what is AIDS? AIDS (acquired immune deficiency syndrome) is a condition caused by a virus called HIV. This virus attacks the immune system, the body's "security force" that fights off infections. When the immune system breaks down, you lose this protection and can develop many serious, often deadly infections and cancers. These are called "opportunistic infections (OIs)" because they take advantage of the body's weakened defenses. You have heard it said that someone "died of AIDS." This is not entirely accurate, since it is the opportunistic infections that cause death. AIDS is the condition that lets the OIs take hold.

And what is HIV? HIV is a virus, like the flu or cold. A virus is really nothing but a set of instructions for making new viruses, wrapped up in some fat, protein and sugar. Without living cells, a virus can't do anything – it's like a brain with no body. In order to make more viruses (and to do all of the other nasty things that viruses do), a virus has to infect a cell. HIV mostly infects T-cells, also known as CD4+ cells, or T-helper cells. These cells are white blood cells that turn the immune system on to fight disease. Once inside the cell, HIV starts producing millions of little viruses, which eventually kill the cell and then go out to infect other cells. All of the drugs marketed to treat HIV work by interfering with this process.

To follow on the denialist, there are endless scientific researsh that link HIV to AIDS

AIDS is characterized by the progressive loss of the CD4+ cells, leading to severe immunosuppression and constitutional disease, neurological complications, and opportunistic infections and neoplasms that rarely occur in persons with intact immune function. Although the precise mechanisms leading to the destruction of the immune system have not been fully delineated, abundant epidemiologic, virologic and immunologic data support the conclusion that infection with the HIV is the underlying cause of AIDS.

HIV and AIDS have been repeatedly linked in time, place and population group; the appearance of HIV in the blood supply has preceded or coincided with the occurrence of AIDS cases in every country and region where AIDS has been noted. Among individuals without HIV, AIDS-like symptoms are extraordinarily rare, even in populations with many AIDS cases. Individuals as different as homosexual men, elderly transfusion recipients, heterosexual women, drug-using heterosexual men and infants have all developed AIDS with only one common denominator: infection with HIV. Laboratory workers accidentally exposed to highly concentrated HIV and health care workers exposed to HIV-infected blood have developed immunosuppression and AIDS with no other risk factor for immune dysfunction (which, evidently, permitted the conclusion that HIV was the cause of AIDS). Scientists have found HIV in virtually every patient with AIDS and to show that HIV is present in large and increasing amounts even in the pre-AIDS stages of HIV disease. Researchers also have demonstrated a correlation between the amount of HIV in the body and progression of the aberrant immunologic processes seen in people with AIDS. For a detailed overview of these and other scientific FACTS that support the conclusion that HIV is the primary cause of AIDS, I certainly invite all to check out this link, maintained by the National Institutes of Health in US: http://www.niaid.nih.gov/publications/hivaids/hivaids.htm.

Despite this plethora of evidence, the notion that HIV does not cause AIDS continues to find a wide audience -- thanks to AIDS denialists -- with potential negative impact on HIV-infected individuals and on public health efforts to control the epidemic. HIV-infected individuals may be convinced to forego anti-HIV treatments that can forestall the onset of the serious infections and malignancies of AIDS. Pregnant HIV-infected women may dismiss the option of taking AZT, which can reduce the likelihood of transmitting HIV to their offspring.

People may be dissuaded from being tested for HIV, thereby missing the opportunity, early in the course of disease, for counseling as well as for treatment with drugs to prevent AIDS-related infections such as PCP. Such prophylactic measures prolong survival and improve the quality of life of HIV-infected individuals

Most troubling is the prospect that individuals will discount the threat of HIV and continue to engage in risky sexual behavior and needle sharing. If public health messages on AIDS prevention are diluted by the misconception that HIV is not responsible for AIDS, otherwise preventable cases of HIV infection and AIDS may occur, adding to the global tragedy of the epidemic.

I du not have much to say but after reading this thread i managed to find a site which was helpful.The site ad is :www.aidsmap.com ngithemba kuzalingceda okuyi contribution kwami.

madoda im very disappointed to find out ukuthi we r still having a discussion like this when the evidence is before our eyes. how many brothers n sisters have to die b4 we realise that this eveil thats crippling society, killing communities and wiping out families is 4real

Mthoko

When it comes to HIV/AIDS, silence is not golden. Because it is the twin evils of HIV & AIDS are savaging our population and reducing our families to unprecedented levels of misery, it is the more reason why we should discuss and debate about it to find out why are we being savaged and massacred by this silent killer disease. We are also encouraging abafowethu who are in the medical professions and related sciences to do some research and if possible find a cure for this dreaded monster called AIDS. For me to sit in a corner here in Tsholotsho and hope that by bottling things up some miracle will happen will not help the situation at all. Already i have learnt that not all HIV tests are 100% accurate. This has helped to explain the strange situation where some fellow was tested positive in Zim in 1998. Currently the same fellow is in Capetown and any tests reveal that he is negative. Not only did he want to commit suicide when he was told his status in 1994, but he also went on to sell all his property and donated his estate to relatives and friends. Needless to say he is now negative and still looking anciously to the future , this fellow is now a top business man employing no less than 30 Mthwakazians in his financial consultancy company.

Mthoko usabala thina esifisa ukuyihluza lindaba.

Uyazi mina into engizwisa ubuhlungu yikuthi lalamhlanje kusese labantu abalokhu befeba sengathi kabawazi lumkhuhlane. Kabayeke ukuziphatha butshapha!

ngiyajabula ukuzwa abantu bakwamthwakazi bexoxa ngodaba akade ngiluxoxa lezinye inzinsizwa zakwethu.Umbuzo angithanda lingincede ngawo yilo.

Can AIDS be spread through romance like heavy kissing or coming to contact with body excreations during romance.However i can not be explicit because i dont know whether the editor will allow me to be.I hope umthwakazi understands what im trying to ask.Nevertherless if i do have that freedom i will elaborate and call a spade a spade.

May I say that HIV causes AIDS.

May I say that beetroot juice and garlic will not cure this condition.

May I say that relations with multiple partners has a positive relationship to HIV infection as well as various other STDs.

May I say that unprotected sex (ie sex without the correct use of prophylactics) has a positive relationship to HIV infection as well as various STDs.

May I say that Archbishop Njongonkulyu Ndungwane has said that:

quote:

---

HIV/AIDS epidemic has become "a world disgrace as serious as apartheid," according to the South African Press Association (South African Press Association, 8/5). He said, "We as a church feel let down by our elected government, who shows no political will at all in trying to save the lives of people who are dying each day from AIDS." Ndungane added that he is "embarrassed" when traveling outside of South Africa because "people know that this country is failing its people."

---

May I say that within weeks of declaring that the work of eminent scientists on the proven relationship between HIV and AIDs should be consigned to the dustbin President Thabo iSoka's spokesman Parks Mankahlana died of AIDs.

May I say that any person is entitled to funny ideas about AIDS, but any person who states that sex without condoms is wise or sensible in our day and age deserves to be traduced as an enemy of Mthwakazi on a par with the worst of Mthwakazi's enemies.

AIDS results from HIV infection.

Lapha kugcwele ama gents, abafowethu lamadoda. Ithi ngiphume!Omama bangaphi! Sabelani Bo!


Kanti sibalukhulu ungijoiniseleni pho ungasangitsheli ukuthi kulemiduna kuphela la?

Gents

The multimillion Mthwakazian$, question remains unanswered. Does HIV cause Aids. What do our Mthwakazian medical specialists say?

Pho kuqgokwa waphi ama khondomu...Fundani lapha! Ingcitshi kazisi ncede bo....


Nonoxynol-9 (N-9)

Bakwethu

This is the new year 2005. The numbers of our people who were decimated by this invisible evil called HIV/AIDS continues to rise amid the fanfare and euphoria of antiretroviral drugs consumption. A discussion with people in the health services reveal that AZT and other so-called AIDS drugs have been responsible for some of the deaths of AIDS sufferers. As a layman on health matters can our very own professionals kindly give us guidance on this pandemic. Does HIV cause Aids? What should one do on being diagnosed to be HIV positive? Do food concortions work to reverse the effects of infection? What is the role played by so-called Antiretrovirals? Do they work? Why do some people develop full blown AIDS but still testing HIV negative?
Bafowethu these and other related questions require our collective minds. The main risk factor affecting Mthwakazians now is HIV/AIDS. This is causing more damage than any other calamity.

A well intended debate your Royal Highness but let us hope we do not get bogged down on the Thabo Mbeki inspired debate that refuses to acknowledge that HIV leads to AIDS, while our people are languishing in the HIV/AIDS inflicted pain and death.

I agree with you baba that this scourge is wiping out communities and generations with much punch like the tsunami and even much more.

Abantu sebephelile!

Whatever facts we know or don't know; this is indeed a matter of life and death.Sesiphelile sesiphelelwe, sisezaphela. Let's us stop this notion of thinking that this disease ngeyabanye hatshi mina kumbe ukubuka umuntu umkholwe ngamehlo ukuthi akala ngculazi.

Those who can stay away from causal sex, please do so. Those who cannot, USE condoms. The personal strategy each one of us should adopt hence forth, is to remain HIV free, nxa u negative okwamanje and do thank your GOD for that priviledge. We can get as much information as we can on these pages, but akusincedi without behavior change and that behaviour change efunekayo is "NO UNSAFE SEX". Okukhulu is to NOT AT ALL require the treatment ye HIV.

Ndlovukazi uyinemba ekhanda. The strategy and focus should be on prevention, management and further education on this slow painful killing tsunami.

Amakhondomu ayafuneka to those who can not change their behaviour or else we all perish!

nxa ubona engani amaamaplastic ayadula ngcono uyethatha awamahala ezibhedlela kulokuthi untsheze kunjalo ngoba ngoba uzakholisa kodwa uyabutshayi buy one get one freee
tholukholise ubunandi
lembasela yengculaza
shuwa ufe because u a jus being careles ngiyaliyala bantwabami lalelanu gogo ngoba izasiqeda i slow tsunami(ebonwe ngumthembo )
ngilovalo ngiyesaba mina a

Mr Chairman I would like to take this opportunity to ask a question,a question I asked before but never got an answer.I do understand that an effort should be made on education and prevation.We all know that by prevantion we mean the use of condoms during the actuall action of sexual intercourse.My question is, is it possible to be infected during FOREPLAY.I need not to get into detail about what happens during this time of activity.At lot of fooling around happens during this time and as a result, one do comes into contact with fluids etc.Please mthwakazi, bare in mind at this stage the freaky it no where in sight.

Attention and reasearch has only been concentrated on wearing a condom during intercourse.I believe that it is possible to be infected during fore play.Therefore a considerable effort and research should be made on such a possibility.

mina ngifuna ukuvula ibhizimusi yokuba ngumatiyasi ngoba ngihlala ngizibuza ukuthi laba obhudi abahamba bembuluza ngokulala lezifebe ezaziwayo ukuthi zilezagweba bonabelabafazi lemuli bazacina ngani.
lani bodade elithanda izimota sengathi yizo ezizalilobola, umuntu engabingelelwa ngudriver ...straight espeya sesiyamweza engazi ukuthi itsunami isizithathele.
Okunye ngahlangana lakho sokuzigqaja nge "English boyfriend" mina ngathi ukungazi kufana lokufa kambe angathemba iGay abafana bekhaya begcwele so! . maybe okuJohn kwakhe kungu Kelly ngezinye insuku kufenswa ngezinye izitabane.

ASAZI!

I FOREPLAY kayikuniki igculaza. Inkinga isuke ibesekutheni isuke ikhokhele ekuthini abayenzayo basathane, lapho yikho okulenkinga khona.

KODWA i FORE play layo ungayenza ngendlela laba abamphlophe asebeyenza ngayo lapho ingculaza iyakutshaya, futhi ikutshaya ngasemlonyeni, yehle ngomphimbo idlule ilunguza i zibindi, lokunye nje. Qeda lapho yehle iyefika ngaphansi ngale okumele ukuthi ngabe ivele yangena ngakhona. Lapho uma sokunjalo, Mamo sekusithi dinga icansi uphindaphinde, lokhu ikwenzela ukuthi imihluzi leyana ebakhona iyiqinise.

Yebo, kungenzeka ukuba uthole lelogcikwane during foreplay nxa uleopen wound which comes into contact with contaminated body fluids.

Bafowethu.

Lobhengula's openning contribution makes good reading. Lapho engingengezelela khona is the figures of AIDS victims.

In the developed nations, they have enacted laws of DISCLOSURE OF CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION. The New York confidentiality laws has the following provisions: Before any information about the HIV status of an individual is released, the party that wants to release that information must obtain a written statement of authorization to release that information from the HIV infected individual (refered to as the PROTECTED INDIVIDUAL).

Now, a number of tests are carried out at private institutions. These are under no obligation to release DATA on their findings. When the individual is found to be positive, to curb the spread of the disease, (which to me looks like a futile exercise), they advise one to ASK his or her partners to also undergo the test. It is a choice. Even the PROTECTED INDIVIDUAL may decide after knowing the results to go underground. No one follows them up. It is your choice to take the medication or spread the disease.

The only advantage in the developed countries is that they do have the medication. A lot of these healthy looking individuals are actualy the broadcasters of this KILLER disease.

Listen to one of the provisions of the Law: DISCLOSURE TO HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS AND HEALTH FACILITIES OF H.I.V. RELATED INFORMATION MAY BE DONE WITHOUT CONSENT ONLY WHEN KNOWING IS NECESSARY TO GIVE APPROPRIATE CARE OR TREATMENT. This means that the PROTECTED INDIVIDUAL will alredy be standing in front of a doctor seeking treatment for some other ailment, and his HIV status may be required for him to be prescribed appropriate medication without chances of complications.

Listen to this: HIV RELATED INFORMATION CANNOT BE RELEASED FOR INFECTION CONTROL. Lapha bathi olayo angayihlanyela nje nxa oyamukelayo engazi ephonguhamba ethatha konke. It is now up to the individual with HIV to be responsible. Abanye bathi ngiyithethe emuntwini lami ngizayibuyisela ebantwini. As far as the curbing of the disease is concerned, kuyafana lakuma Developed nations, iyahlanyelwa nje ngoba bona bathi balemithi. Bathi bangethekela kwawethu amazwe batshiye bonile.

The law further says about those you are in sexual contact with: PHYSICIANS MAY NOTIFY YOUR SEXUAL CONTACTS IF - THE PHYSICIAN CONCLUDES NOTIFICATION IS MEDICALLY APPROPRIATE AND THAT THE CONTACT MAY FACE A SIGNIFICANT RISK OF TRANSMISSION. Kambe bafowethu umuntu ngilala laye nsuku zonke what SIGNIFICANT RISK OF TRANSMISSION is being questioned here???

They have what they call Anonymous testing - where the tested individuals identity is not sought after. What he does after he is tested is of no consequence. There is the Confidential testing - where the individual is known and may volunteer his data.

Kunzima bafowethu.

Li Zwangendaba.

Bakwethu

Those who are involved in health sectors can you kindly enlighten us as to what are the major differences between the HIV/AIDS that is prevalent in Europe/USA and the fatal brand that is prevalent in Africa. Why is the African brand so devastating whereas its Euro-USA counterparty is not as pandemic or endemic? Could it be that our immune systems are different from those of other people in these continents?

From a medical or scientific viewpoint, what is the current arguments with regards to the views of the so-called AIDS dissident scientists who allege that drugs like AZT are a cause rather than a cure for AIDS. Those who are working in health sectors can kindly confirm what their observations are in this respect. What about the arguments of dissident scientists who claim that for one to contract HIV virus, they need to have had at least 1000 rounds of unprotected sexual activity with the same infected person!!!!. Remember they support their views on this wild claim by citing exact experiments that were carried out on countless occasions not least the observations done on ladies of the night whom they allege are found to be HIV negative despite daily exposure to risk of infection from their clients.
We kindly request all Mthwakazians who have a passion for social and/or health sciences to give their varied inputs.

Questions raised by Lobs bring to mind the questions I have asked people here in the west with no clear answers at all coming forth.My questions to them was,how come whites sleep around willy neelie without protection but Aids dont get them like the black man does ?The way abelungu abehlobongana ngayo bengela ma condom ku serious bakwethu but ingculaza kubo ayikho ningi, WHY?i begin to think our black genes are more or easily attacked by the HIV virus or they are a good breeding ground for the HIV virus,ngoba I cant understand ukuthi same actions ezenziwa ngabelungu azibanikezi ingculaza in enmass like odaki!At times when I look at it abelungu bahlaya uphondo mahlayana kaningi kunabantu abansundu as highlighted by their love of one night stands every night out but they have fewer HIV cases .

Maqhame,

Ngivumelana lawe kwelokuthi ukuphingana kubhokile kulabobafo. Ezama'gene' ziyangeqa mnakwethu sizacela abakwezempilakahle ukuthi bachasise.

Akuze lama statistics of the numbers ezilalo umkhuhlane khonangapho. Why sebevule okungamakilinika okunengi abakubiza G.U.M.Clinic? Kwenziwani kulawo makilinika?

Phecelezi, kambe abantu laba ngendlela abazibona ngcono kulomuntu omnyama bangawachaya egcekeni amanani abo aselalowomkhuhlane? Kambe intengo yamaARV kubo ingaba yinkinga na? Ukutholakala kokudla okwakha imizimba khona ke akungeke kwenze umahluko? Umumo womkhathi wona ke?

I'm a mafikizolo and I just went through the contributions which were made by the Mthwakazians hmmm. I can see we have all the expetise in the house. I'm very much impressed and I now know what I was missing.

It is just unfortunate that the contributions seem to have died down. I'ld like to thank Jazi and other guys for their debate really shows that people know their stuff.

Lets continue contributing, maybe oneday we might get some good news.

Yes so good people how can diet contribute to this AIDS thing? Ningixolele ngithanda ukwazi Mthwakazi. Diet, excercises (gym) I understand help how?

Jazi come out of your hibanation mate I liked your arguments.

About the diet for and HIV+ persons, it is recommended that they take natural foods. Those that mantain a multi-vitamin diet normally live a healthier life than those who do not.

Exercises are good not only for HIV+ people, but everyone. Poeple that do not exercise have high risks of CHDs or other heart related illnesses. Exercises also help on the nervous system and help releave stress.

Njengoba sokulama GMOs sithini Dokotela? Amanutrients akuma GMOs ayafana na lakulezi zithelo ezingakhuliswanga ngabezoscience and lokhu kuphambanisa njani impilakahle yalo umuntu okhwehlela esembatha?

To tell you the truth, akulamehluko mtaka baba. Indaba isekuthini ngubani ozembula amakwapha. Thina abesundu sisuke sazembula kukho konke kukanti abelungu kusensitha. Indaba ime kanje, i AIDS/HIV is high in Asia, South America, Eastern Europe than Africa. In India alone bangu 15 million abalegcikwane but abantu bonke bakhala ngeButswana. The reason being, these guys are clever they put it in percentage. What is 37% of 1.8 million? Asivukeni ma Africa sikwale konke lokhu ngoba yonke into embi ilahlelwa kithi.

Why is it that i AIDS eNgilandi, Europe as a whole is said to be low when everyone knows that in those countries people are soo liberal that they tend to sleep around willy nilly. I do not think that they do even put protective clothing when engaging into intercourse, reason being that they know that abortion is legal. Why is it that bona kabathelelani. I was meant to understand ukuthi yona AIDS yabonakala ku Gay community yalapha then why is it that ayi memetheki ngesivuvu njengase AFrica.

There are soo many questions angaphendulwa kakahle mayelana lendaba lena bafethu. I think Africans should do their own research not funded by Western or developed countries coz I think all these researches funded by these countries tend to be biased in one way or the other.

What are the AIDS stats for UK and why are they that low?


MaAfrika sibanjwa amehlo asivukeni bo. Kanti vele yena owalungisa leyo AIDS wayengasi omunye walaba abalenwele ezilengayo , ngitsho bona ondlebe zikhanya ilanga.

IS IT TRUE YINI UKUTHI I AIDS WAS MEANT TO QEDA ISIZWE SEAFRICA SINCE ITS A MAN MADE MKHUHLANE

BKM
there is no smoke without fire.......it could be true....

Caca lapha Msupa "I do not think that they do even put protective clothing when engaging into intercourse, reason being that they know that abortion is legal. Why is it that bona kabathelelani"

Wearing a condom should protect the female from getting pregnant and both partners from getting a sexually transmitted infection and HIV. Even after an abortion, if one has already contracted the virus,the did is done!

UMbuzo wami sis usekuthini bona kabatshayeli ngamajambo kodwa imikhuhlane le esiqede isizwe sabansundu bona kayibakhathazi yindaba bona bekhanya ezemacansini beziqakathekisa kangaka. Bethi beziqakathekisa, abakhethi ukuthi balele ngaphi njalo nobani. Khangela abantwanyana abancane ukuthi baqala ukuganga beneminyaka emingaki.

Ngibona ungithole kahle Mabila. umbuzo yiwonalo, why is it that the rate of transmittion is high in Afrika as compared to Europe when in the actual fact i Afrika siziphethe kakhulu. And I think I might be right ukuthi thina sizwe esinsundu we are aware of this kakhulu kunabo, thats why they do not care.