lam a highly religious person who was brought up in a strict christian family.One day after one of my regular visits to my rural home,l was bemused by my Grandpa`s interpretation of the Bible.He told me that, in the Bible, we are not only dealing with the sacred writings of the Christian church,but actually dealing with some hundreds of years of censorship.
He told me, as l listened attentively,that, in his many years of reading the Bible,he has encountered some verses that suggest that Jesus was not the meek lamb of God as presented to us by theologians,but a military separatist who was dedicated to evicting the then Roman colonial gorvenment and, (more likely)installing himself as the king of the Jews.
He began by telling me that during Jesus` era,Caesar,the Emperor was the head of an emperial domination system.Rome had taken control of the Jewesh homeland in 63BCE and ruled it through clients such as Herod and his sons and some Roman gorvenors.The Jews found the imperial domination system reprehensible and unacceptable,hence they longed not for a Pope John Paul-like figure but for a typical Nelson Mandela to help them gain their independence from the oppressive rule.ln Jesus they found that leader.
Here are some of the evidence that my grandpa said made him think Jesus `mission was political.
1)THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES (MIC.5v5-6,ZACH.9v10,JER 23v5-8)
The ancient prophets predicted the coming of a great leader who was to be born amongst them,eg lsaiah prophesied,``..and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut out``,lsaiah 11v13.He told me that this verse showed that the leader was to be a paragon of freedom for the people of Judah,who could not stand the oppression anymore.
2)THE BIRTH OF JESUS
When king Herod was warned a king was to be born,he attempted a destruction of an entire generation of infants,just because of the subversive rumour that the newly born was to be king of the Jews.Grandpa also claimed that it should be noted that Herod would not have ventured into this barbaric bloodthirst act had Jesus` birth been linked solely to religion.What came to Herod`s mind was that the king had been birthed with a design to supplant his royal position.The Roman gorvenment itself had an admirable record of religious tolerance, and all kinds of religious movements were enjoying absolute freedom of practice.They even referred to this epoch as Pax Romana(peace in Rome) and even Christianity was born under Pax Romana.
3)THE RECRUITMENT OF THE DISCIPLES
He told me two of Jesus`disciples,Judas and Simon, were recruited from the Zealot group,who were also known as the `daggermen.`The Zealots were bitter rivals of the gorvenment and it is recorded that they resorted to violence and assassination in their hatred of the Roman colonial rule.They refused to pay tribute to the Romans and even led a revolt against Rome in 66-70AD.He said if the Romans were a brutal gorvenment like Mugabe`s,it would have waged a brutal war against the Zealots,or probable unleash an army like Gukurahundi to brutalize whosoever they thought would have had a link with the Zealots.Jesus recruited these rebels probably because he knew they were fighting for a cause similar to his.
4)JESUS` TEACHINGS
Grandpa took me to the following verses;
Matt.10v14,Like a man on a mission,Jesus said he had not come to bring peace but the sword ,and even elucidated in chpt 24v1-2 that there shall be no stone that will be left unturned.He also referred me to Mk 11v15 were we encounter a military style corporal punishment being meted out to some gamblers in the temple.
ln Lk 22v56 Jesus` advice to his disciples was `lf you dont have a sword,sell your clock and buy one.``This will remind you of the pre-independence speeches by the likes of Mugabe,Nkomo or Mandela.ln Ndebele, this statement was `mayihlome madoda`,said Grandpa.
5)THE TRIUMPHANT ENTRY INTO JERUSALEM.
Grandpa told me that what happened on this day brought the hearts of the Roman officials into their mouths and they were left with no option than to act in the interest of public order.He told me that,if a person rode a horse into a city , especially the capital like Jerusalem ,that would be tantamount to a declaration of war against the gorvenment.Worse still if that particular person or rebel`s followers spread their garments in the way, or cut branches from trees and spread them in the way like exactly what occurred when Jesus was entering Jerusalem.Although Jesus himself rode a donkey ,the scenario was similar to the one by a rebel on a horseback whose intentions would be a coup de tat.Worse still, the path used by Jesus directly led to the Roman garrison,which was equivalent to a parliament building.
6)CRUCIFIXION.
The last of the stunning evidence Grandpa pointed to me was the crucifixion.He told me that crucifixion was a Roman punishment that was meted out only for crimes against the state.Common crimes could be punished by death by local authorities only with Roman permision,so bakoMthwakazi, how many of you will agree or disagree with this observation and perception that Jesus was a revolutionary whose objective was to overthrow the Roman political authority and gain independence for his people who were weary of the Roman yoke on their necks, and who longed for a vibrant leader who would lead them to national and political emancipation?

Zinduna: Bayethe Ndabezitha!

Mzilikazi:uthini uMtshede Lotshe?

Lotshe: uthi ulendaba, kodwa engasiyomkhonto.

Mzilikazi: hawu! yindaba bani?

ngiyakuzwa mninimuzi. nxa ngikuzwe kahle uthe lumbono owethule ngaphambilini ngokaMkhulu wakho. ithi ngiphange, ukhaliphile.

well since your oldman has it that we are now dealing with an eroded text thru translation which is true. However, when one studies closely the closing chapters of man's salvation, it is evident that the disciples thought Jesus was militant too. When He summoned them to meet Him in Galilee soon after His resurrection, they ask the same question is this the time for you to take back the kingdom of Israel? the men had walked with Him for three years but they did not fully comprehend His mission, He explained that His kingdom was not of this world but in heaven.

when he began His ministry the devil tempted him on the same issue by promising Him the dominion of the world only if he bowed before him, but He did not sin. just before the final hour of His arrest the same military chance presented itself by Peter stricking one of the soldiers chopping off his ear Jesus calmed him.

according to the Roman law Pontius Sergius Pilate tried Him and found no crime or evidence befitting the capital punishment punishment of crucifixion, hence he washed his hands and did the will of the Jews (pharises and saducees).

actually the Pharises and the Saducees were bitterly against Him because He was more a better Rabbi than any of them if he was militant or even instigating contention Rome was going to deal with Him directly not via Herod who was Jewish, a Roman puppet who wanted the favour of Caesar at the expense of his people's liberty.

and yes look at the zealots who were disappointed by Jesus, were cleaned out in AD70 by the Romans Jesus gave that prophecy to His disciples before He ascended. according to the Roman law uJesu waphuma d and they had to lie that Jesus said He was the King of the Jews and that was not a crime befitting death Pilate thought of giving Him few lashes and let Him go.

well imbono iyehluka bengatsho abanye, but all in all umakhehlani wakho uvusile.

Hmmm, interesting piece of work indeed!

Were people expecting a Leader who will lead them from the occupation ....... Again Yes .... even the disciples did not understand him and his mission till later...

So from the people point of view they were expecting a leader that was going to take care of the political situation .... but they forgot the spiritual situation .. But his mission was for the entire human race and it was not for political reasons.......

Your Grandfather pointed out true facts but the unfortunate thing was that some people really expected Jesus to be a Political Figure...... or maybe wanted him to be a Political figure .... because the political situation the Jews were in ......

The Prophesies were saying a great Leader will be born Surely even us today will be expecting a big Political Figure that would be coming ..... same with them When the Bible said Leader they had in their minds.. A Wise Intelligent as well as Physically Strong human being but nothing close to Spiritual Leader.....OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST...

kuthiwa we shld not ? ukwenza kukaNkulunkulu but at times nxa ngibala ibhayibhili ngangimangale indlela uJesu ayephendula ngayo wayelecele elingenziyo.Wayengaphi idirect answer, besengifikelwa ngumcabango wokuthi kanti wayefihlani ayebona angani abantu bayakusola kumbe bamcabangela khona.Indaba kakhulu iqukethe ngoba ngike ngezwa omunye esithi i-original version kumbe ngithi ulimi oluyilo ibhayibhili eyabhalwa ngayo yehlukile kulala esiwabalayo.Wathi ekutransletheni kunegi okwatshintshwayo

mzukulu-kagogo

sorry ukukubetha ngegama kukhanya njalo ngempela ukuthi uJesu wayelecele kodwa khumbula phela ukuthi he was fully divine as He was human. liyatsho ibhayibheli ukuthi wayekubona abakucabangayo kumbe inhloso ngemibuzo yabo. hence wayephendula ngokubuza the very intentions of their hearts phecelezi He was an intelligent being kusafana lawe nxa umuntu ekugubha uyambona and it will be folly to answer directly, locking your self inside a snare.

ngisizeni zihlobo ngokungitshela ukuthi amaphupho ayini ngesichristu.amavesi amukelekile achasisa amaphupho,kangiliqondi kahle ibhayibhili kodwa ngiyalikholwa

Mzukulu-kagogo,uze lendaba enhle ma ukhuluma nge translation lange original version yebhayibhili.This again reminds me of my conversation with umkhulu.He also mentioned to me that the Bible did not drop out of the heavens one day,fully formed and as compact as it is today.He told me that originally,there were numerous pieces of work available but a certain criteria was used to select the books that were to be included in what is today called the Bible.This process was referred to as the canonization of the Bible.Umkhulu told me that canonization was a process that went through several stages and took many centuries.
The criteria of canonization was as follows,
1)The book was required to be theological/religious.This meant the piece of work must contain what was called doxologies,eulogies or simply,a series of God`s praises.
2)The writer of the book was required to be a descendant of David or have some kind of link with his ancestry.
3)The book was also required to show some divine inspiration,eg Old Testament prophets.
Mkhulu warned me to note that the above was just a decision by a group of people in a meeting or council,eg the council of Jamnia in AD90.
Hence,books that were not considered to be giving enough praises to God were excluded from the Bible.He said that as late as 200 AD such books as James,1Peter etc,were not considered as scripture and they were initial denied entry into the Bible.
Umkhulu made me aware that the criteria that the writer of the scripture should be a descendent of David led to some absolutely non religious pieces of work being included in the Bible.He asserted that there is nothing religious about Songs of Solomon for example.The author, King Solomon,was just a famous womanizer, and Songs of Solomon is just a compilation of songs and letters that Solomon wrote to his lovers.This has nothing to do with God or worshiping.
Umkhulu told me that there is a number of omitted texts for both Genesis and Exodus that are found in the so called book of Jubiees.He said that there are some books about Jesus` history as a man and not The Man of God.These works portray Jesus who is slightly different from the one presented by the Bible because they concentrated on his human aspects away from religion.These were disqualified and were never included in the Bible.He told me that during canonization,the books were divided into what was called Genuine and Apocrypha.The Apocrypha or excluded books, includes books like 1 and 2 Maccabees that even today,dont appear in the Bible.The likes of James,1Timothy,2John etc were later included in the Bible as an after-thought and after thorough debate on them because of their controversial nature.
So the question that rises is,`ls the Bible just a deliberate creation by some people who did it on their own accord and with no divine intervention whatsoever?

Mninimuzi uzalazo,nxa umtomdala esasekhona kungakuhle umthephe nxa ekhuluma ngoba lokhu akutshoyo kuphendula eminye imibuzo engangibe layo kuthi ngingabuza abkholwayo bangitshele ukuthi imibuzo leyo ivela kusathane ngingamvumeli engisebenzisa.kodwa ulibele ukuphendula umbuzo wami wamaphupho

Well mzukulu kagogo,lami l`ll confess my ignorance on that subject.What l know is that in the bible there are constant referrencies to communication between man and God through the use of amaphupho.There are 121 mentions of amaphupho in the bible and all are associated with great people like Joseph,Gideon,Solomon,king Nebuchadnezar etc,and here dreams are presented as gods language.
But my brother who is a psychologist tells me dreams are mere fundamental images conjured up by the brain and projected through our mind`s eye while we asleep.l personally think amaphupho are just results of unconcious thoughts and desires [izifiso].But esintwini aqakathekile amaphupho if you listen to Steve kekana`s song lphupho.And l have seen abadala bevuka bedideke inqgondo ngenxa nje yephupho abaliphuphileyo.Angazi njalo! l will refer you to a book by Seymour Rossel `Bible Dreams [the spiritual quest]

ngiyabonga kakhulu Mninimuzi,inkosi ikuxhase imihla yonke for yo time and knowledge

Bafowethu.

If he was a politician, he was also a coward. He started something he could not finish. Waqala umvukela waphinde wesaba ukuwukhokhela.

If he was a prophet, then he had a noble idea, because he was relating visions that he was seeing in his daily dreams. His people were slaves, and someone was bound to free them. That he could not do because he was afraid of the Romans.

Ngumbono bafowethu.

Li Zwangendaba.

eyii bafethu yona indaba kajesu labonkulunkulu iyahlupha kakhulu.Khona kungabe kulicala ukuthi umuntu ekholwe ngokubona na? kulokutshelwa sonke isikhathi.Ngilombuso njalo wokuthi ibhayibhili laqala kusiphi isigaba somhlaba.

Bafowethu

Mkhize, ngizaqala ngokuthi kasiqaleni ngokuchasisa ukuthi "BIBLE" kutshoni.

Abomlando lembali bazasinceda nge History yawo ama BIBLE ngoba manengi.

Li Zwangendaba.

Linjani bafowethu.Angijonganga kuliphambanisa kule ingxoxo emnandi kangaka.Kodwa,engingakutsho yikuthi,ayibanjwe ngonanzelelo olukhulu kakhulu. Its a sensetivu ishu. UBanana wake wazama ukugu qula iBhayibhili,ungaphi lamhla? Omunye lomunye kazidingele ulwazi oluqotho ngokubala IBhayibhili
Ku chapter yokuqala ekhuluma ngendalo Ku Genesis.

ZWANGENDABA
Maybe angikutholanga kahle ma usithi amabhayibheli maningi.From as far as l know there is only one bible which is a collection of 66 books written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2000 years.According to the bible encyclopedia the word bible is derived from a greek word 'biblia',meaning books.

MKHIZE OZIKHIZAYO
If am interpreting your question accurately you want knowlege of Africa vis-avis the bible.This maybe as controversial as it sounds.My grand pa once told me that the biggest problem is the difference between Africa in the bible and Africa now.ln the biblical times north africa [arab world] was part and parcel of the Ancient Near East.So the assertion that Moses could have been black is far fetched and seriously lacks logic.His links to egypt does not make him black.When Zimbabwe 'cheated' egypt in the world cup qualifiers during the reign of Fabisch,the egyptians referred to us as 'black bastards'.By this they meant that Zimbabweans were a different race from them.So the africa mentioned in the bible is not africa proper.lt is the Ancient Near East.lt is only a geographical accident that the likes of egypt are in africa because all their kiths and kins are in Asia. Nowhere in the bible is there a reference to Southern Africa .The bible seems to be universalized far too far, most of its stories make particular refferences to specific people and places and are not meant for the whole world ,for example Paul's letter to the Corinthians.This letter is simply Paul's response to the questions raised by the people of Corinth about the following issues (1)meat sacrifised to idols ,2]divorce&marriage ,3]prophecy etc, it has nothing to do with Zim or Botswana although similar problems can be encountered in these areas too.
Sometimes the bible itself seems to be anti-black eg the black race is portrayed as a product of a curse and the story of Ham was constantly used to justify slavery and slave trade.
However we cannot take the bible for granted.The bible is a very unique piece of art in terms of its effects in individual men and on the history of nations.lt is one all time best seller,appealing both to hearts and minds of rich or poor,scholar or simple,king or common.
No other book has ever held such universal appeal nor produced such lasting effects.
The bible remains the most infuencial book of the ages.lt remains a stunning phenomena mainly because of the following.
1]lts fulfilled prophecy
2]lts unique historical accuracy-ie scores of archaelogical findings have been made which confirm in clear outline,historical statements in the bible
3]Another striking evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. A sampling of these would include:
Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)
Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)
Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)
Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)
Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27

MANGETHE
Gone are the days when intimidation and arm twisting tactics were used to force march people into fearing God.ln this modern world the bible has come under scrutiny from both scientists and philosophers,and there is no chance of using the Mightiness of God to intimidate morden world critics.To do that will be unfair and rather subjective.An objective aproach will be where by everyone is given a chance to raise a religious question and comprehensive answers be provided to them from different perspectives.This will allure even the most heathen to at least have a chat about this fundamental and awesome thing called religion.
For your own information Mangethe,proffessor Banana engaged in a one man activism to lobby for some amendments in the bible because of its outright intolerence to things like homosexuality and beastiality.Remember he went on to write a book entitled 'the woman of my imagination' and it is vividly clear in the book that the woman he imagined was actually a man.Unfortunately the bible in its orthodox campaign for moral uprightness,does not embrace such activities as homosexuallity,beastiality,dirvoce etc.

Bafowethu

Tjozana-zana, ngingakangeni ngemibono yami, ngizakubuza ngigxizelele ku "BIBLE".

Who decides what is called a bible, and what not to call a Bible???

Li Zwangendaba.

ELIZWANGENDABA
l thought of redirecting this posting which was originally directed to my dear pal Mzukulu ka gogo.
l hope it answers your question,if not please come again Zwangs.

My grandpa once mentioned to me that the Bible did not drop out of the heavens one day,fully formed and as compact as it is today.He told me that originally,there were numerous pieces of work available but a certain criteria was used to select the books that were to be included in what is today called the Bible.This process was referred to as the canonization of the Bible.Umkhulu told me that canonization was a process that went through several stages and took many centuries.
The criteria of canonization was as follows,
1)The book was required to be theological/religious.This meant the piece of work must contain what was called doxologies,eulogies or simply,a series of God`s praises.
2)The writer of the book was required to be a descendant of David or have some kind of link with his ancestry.
3)The book was also required to show some divine inspiration,eg Old Testament prophets.
Mkhulu warned me to note that the above was just a decision by a group of people in a meeting or council,eg the council of Jamnia in AD90.
Hence,books that were not considered to be giving enough praises to God were excluded from the Bible.He said that as late as 200 AD such books as James,1Peter etc,were not considered as scripture and they were initial denied entry into the Bible.
Umkhulu made me aware that the criteria that the writer of the scripture should be a descendent of David led to some absolutely non religious pieces of work being included in the Bible.He asserted that there is nothing religious about Songs of Solomon for example.The author, King Solomon,was just a famous womanizer, and Songs of Solomon is just a compilation of songs and letters that Solomon wrote to his lovers.This has nothing to do with God or worshiping.
Umkhulu told me that there is a number of omitted texts for both Genesis and Exodus that are found in the so called book of Jubiees.He said that there are some books about Jesus` history as a man and not The Man of God.These works portray Jesus who is slightly different from the one presented by the Bible because they concentrated on his human aspects away from religion.These were disqualified and were never included in the Bible.He told me that during canonization,the books were divided into what was called Genuine and Apocrypha.The Apocrypha or excluded books, includes books like 1 and 2 Maccabees that even today,dont appear in the Bible.The likes of James,1Timothy,2John etc were later included in the Bible as an after-thought and after thorough debate on them because of their controversial nature.
So the Bible SEEMS TO ME to be just a deliberate creation by some people who did it on their own accord and with no divine intervention whatsoever.

OOHHH yaaaaa!!!

Saf' isizwe samaNdebele ngamanga atshelwa obaba bethu, bawadla bawasutha. Balahla ukholo lwabo.

Sizokhala kubani na?

mina mbona sengathi balahla amasiko bathatha ukholo abangazi ukuthi lwavela kuphi.

Asinanzeleleni ukuthi konke nje kungakhangeleka njenge soshali khonstilakithi, kubuye kugcwale isabhujekithivithi. Khona nje ukukholwa, konke kokubili kunezincazelo eziyizincezuncezu zivela ebantwini lendaweni eziningi. Mina ngizathi, nxa olwami ukholo lungolwamanga, mhla ngahlulelwayo ngizakuthokoza ngoba ngizabe ngiphile njalo ngaqhuba impilo enhle, emnandi. Nxa kuqiniseka ukuthi ngizokwahlulelwa ngendlela yamakhirisitu, lakho kobamnandi ngoba ngizakutholakala ngihamba kustirethi endi naro.

Baba Mkhize

Ngokuhlonipha okukhulu kwesiko lweSintwini, ngicela ixhetsha lokuthi ngibe lenkani kule indaba. Ukholo alula makhethe ngomhlobo womuntu (race, colour or even culture). Lugoqela wonke nje umuntu jikelele emhlabeni. It does not mean ukuthi nxa umuntu esekholwa, sokumele alahle isiko lakhe, hatshibo. Ngingathi ukholo luyaliqinisa isiko emuntwini.

siyavumelana dade kodwa lona ibhayibhili kwamanye amakhasi liyaphikisana lesintu ikakhulu kwezempande.Umbuzo wakho muhle kakhulu njalo ngiyawuhlonipha ngani ngoba ulomkantsho.

yimi engikulandelayo kumbe nguwe dade(soma).Bengicela dadewethu ngolwakho ulwazi ukuthi lona ibhayibhili lasuka kusiphi isigaba somhlaba.ngilahlekile nceda sihlobo.

Ukuvumelana kuhle baba Mkhize. Kwakha isizwe.

Ngokuzwisisa kwami, ngingazi njalo kumbe akugcwalanga, iBhayibhili yimbali yethu sonke. Kwathi ngemva kwe flood in Noah's days, abantu bazalana njalo, sanda. UGenesis 10 vs 32 explains how the nations were devided.

After the nations were devided, the Bible then focuses on one nation which God chose. This does not mean that we were any less in His eyes. IBhayibhili then goes on to tell imbali of that nation (Israel) and how God dealt with it. I should also point out that not every single thing that happened in Israel was recorded.There are accounts of events in other nations, mostly in the Middle East and a couple in Europe. If you study the nation of Israel closely, you will find that as a people, they are not very different from us. We have the same struggles, ie religion, culture, education, tribalism, wars (or being killed), tyrants, etc....

You will need to ask God yourself as to why he chose Israel ngoba mina angikwazi. The texts that made it into the Bible were relavant to what God was doing and wanted to do. We are told (and I believe) ukuthi every scripture was inspired by uMoya Oyingcwele. You either believe this or you don't. Take it or leave it. Sonke we have to make individual choices ngalokho, regardless of what popular opinion says.

Mina sengakhetha eyami indlela. Wena Ke?

I hope I have answered your question.

kuzwakele inkosi ibusise.

Bafowethu.

Hatshibo. Ngicela ukwazi ukuthi ama "Scientific discoveries" uyawakholwa na???

Did "GOD" chose the Israelis or they are his people??? When did the Israelis start using the name "GOD" ???

Li Zwangendaba.

Bafowethu.

Mninimuzi, allow me to quote:
________________________________________________________________________
2)The writer of the book was required to be a descendant of David or have some kind of link with his ancestry.
3)The book was also required to show some divine inspiration,eg Old Testament prophets.
________________________________________________________________________

Do you know that the moslems today claim that the Qur'An is the only word of "ALLAH" because it was written by MOHAMED who is said to be the last prophet of ALLAH ???

Those born under that influence will break their necks in convincing you that it is them who are MORE TRUE THAN ALL.

Is the Qur'An the BIBLE also??? Is Mohamed a descendant of David???

Going to the Greek definition of BIBLOS, since the Greek language precedes the English on the definition of Bible, All collections of writings all over the world and this is true, are Bibles. Newspapers, magazines, history books, religious writings, etc etc.

Li Zwangendaba.

UThixo usinikezile izihlahla ukuze sithole ukusiliswa kizo yingabe ngokudla kumbe ngokwelapheka okungatholakala ekudleni lezo zihlahla (Genesisi 2:9). Kangako usidale ngomfanekiso wakhe ngakho uluntu kumbe isintu kungokwakhe not the other way round.

Ekukhetheni lapha, ngibona sengathi uNkulunkulu usithande sonke akakhethanga ngitsho loyedwa (Johane 3:16). Ukhetho lukithi thina benyama ekutheni sikhetha ukulandela imiyalezo kaThixo kumbe sikhetha ukuba ngontandoyethu.

Isizwe sika Isirayeli epitomised God's wishes and intentions ngomhlaba lo, ngokuba at that point in time yiso ebesitshengisa okuyingcosana kokholo kuThixo. UNkulunkulu umela abammelayo laye. Kangako abamphikayo kumbe abamlahlayo balahla uthando lommelo oluphakeme. UIsirayeli laye was not spared 'ulaka' lukaThixo nxa ebephazama. Ngokunjalo wonke umhlaba kunye nezizwe ezikuwo ngokukaThixo owuyena uMdali wakho konke.

Bafowethu.

Ngivumeleni - Esikhathini esinengi lokhu esikufisayo ngo Nkulu-Nkulu kuyehlukana lalokho ayikho khona uqobo.

Quote:
_____________________________________________________________________
Ekukhetheni lapha, ngibona sengathi uNkulunkulu usithande sonke akakhethanga ngitsho loyedwa (Johane 3:16). Ukhetho lukithi thina benyama ekutheni sikhetha ukulandela imiyalezo kaThixo kumbe sikhetha ukuba ngontandoyethu.
______________________________________________________________________
This read together with a contribution by Hatsibo, "Ukholo kalula makhethe - race, color, or even culture".

The same constitution says, "Do not mary your sons to their daughters nor their sons your daughters". WHY, WHY, WHY??? Ukheto lukubani lapha???

The same constitution says, "MOSES, go and tell pharoah to SET MY PEOPLE free. Set MY people from whose people??? Amakhethe akubani???

"Or even CULTURE". The very reason why people are busy arguing about who is wrong ar right in worshiping is because the "GOD" followers did not RESPECT the CULTURES of other people of oNkulu-Nkulu. They thought that only their culture should be followed in worshiping oNkulu-Nkulu. If you worshiped in other ways, you were labelled a SINNER. Amakhetha akubani.

Li Zwangendaba.

Bafowethu.

Ngibuyele endabeni yethu. Asiqedeni ingcazelo ye "BIBLE". Lokhu kuzasinceda ukuthi sazi lapho siya khona.

I was in the Library recently and this is what I got from the WEBSTER'S DICTIONARY:
. BIBLE - middle english from old french, which is also derived from middle latin BIBLIA, which is also derived from greek BIBLION meaning BOOK. BIBLION is derived from greek BYBLOS PAPYRUS, which is original BOOK. BYBLOS PAPIRUS is derived from BYBLOS, which is an ancient PHOENICIAN city from which PAPYRUS was exported. PAPYRUS was a plant that was "knitted" together to make a plate for writing on. So the english adopted the name of a city to call their collection of writtings.

. The sacred scriptures of Christians comprising the old and new Testaments.

. The sacred scriptures of Judaism; also: those of some other religion.

. A publication that is considered authoritative for its subject.

Li Zwangendaba.

Zwangendaba

Ngixolele ngokuphuza ukuphendula. Ama scientific discoveries ngiyawakholwa sibili ngoba kimi i science is the study of what God has created.

Ngingakaku phenduli umbuzo wesibili, usuke wabala uGenesis wonke na?

guys is it true there was onother version of The Gospel according to Mary???of wich they claim it wasnot realesed just because it was done by a female.

Bafowethu.

Thank you Makhinte.

Hatshibo - Kusukela ngiku Sunday School ngilokhu ngitshelwa ngo GENESIS, but to be honest with you, it is not the Genesis that is described there. Thank you for your reply about Scientific descoveries. They confirm what was created by the CREATOR, but they do have extreme controversies to the BIBLE.

Ubona njani???

Li Zwangendaba.

Moreover concerning the stranger, which is not of thy people Israel, but is come from a far country for thy great name's sake, and thy mighty hand, and thy stretched out arm; if they come and pray in this house;
2Ch 6:33 Then hear thou from the heavens, [even] from thy dwelling place, and do according to all that the stranger calleth to thee for; that all people of the earth may know thy name, and fear thee, as [doth] thy people Israel, and may know that this house which I have built is called by thy name.

istranger lapha ngubani? singathi kwakulenketha betshabi yini lapha bakithi ,eyinye ivesi ithi ezizwe ebezisemnyameni zikubonile ukukhanya ,kanti okuthiwa ngama gentils ngobani? lomfazi owayeyisifebe waye ngacabangeli ukuthi uJesu angamkhulumisa kodwa wamkhulumisa solindoda enguJesu brought in a new way , a way of love ,uthando mina lawe okunzima ukuthi siluzwisise ,wayengekho kwezombangazwe kodwa amajuda ayedliswa luklubhu ngamaroma ayethi uzabuya athathe izikhali alwe

Bafowethu.

Matshetshe, I dost not understandeth what thou sayest abovest. Please simplifiest thy Quoteth frometh the Bible about the stranger that cometh.

Li Zwangendaba.

Shukushukuma udle amathambo enqgondo Mkrestu.
Bathi many many years ago,lamatshe ancwebekayo engakabi khona,ie in the beginning[kudala kwakukhona],MANKIND[umuntu],after realising that he lacked such virtues as perfection,immortality etc,logically came to a conclusion that there MUST definitely[akabekhona] exist a more superior BEING[unkulunkulu] who is an epitomy/representative/symbol/paragon of virtues such as omnipotency[usomandla],perfection[ongcwele],supernatural[umvelinqangi],immortal[onaphakade]etc.
Moreso,such a BEING[umlimu] could not exist underneath or within the HUMAN[abenyama] sphere but ABOVE and BEYOND[phezulu].
HUMANKIND[umuntu] then named the ABOVE and BEYOND[iphezulu] as HEAVEN[izulu].
To heal the hopes of the inquisitive and curious HUMANS[abenyama],HUMANKIND[umuntu] described HEAVEN[izulu] not only as unempirical but also as unreacheable before death.
This is how the idea of GOD[umlimu] and the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN[umbuso wezulu] came to be--Hence it cannot be true that GOD created MAN in his image,but MAN created GOD in his OWN image.
Confused???? Maybe.But wena ukubona njani?? TRUE OR FALSE????????

Lami ngathi ngiyayibona indaba le thina yithi esimbumbayo umdali wethu ukuthi engabe uyisimakanjani.ngingathi yibuqili babantu abasile ngokunqabela abansundu ukuthi singoni.

Lami lento ngiyibona njalo Khabazela,lnto nje abantu bayayesaba lendaba ngoba bethi bazakutshiswa.

uJesu watshontshi donki,waqede wababhaxabula ngemvubu bethengisi nsango ethempelini,waqede wayashelisifebe samala

waze wangilahisa mfokababa ngikholwa abantu ngaphakathi kwabo besaba ukuyithemba bathi mhlawumbe labo bazabhacabulwa ngunkulunkulu benga bonakala besezindabeni ezifana lalezi.

Ukuphi we kunene ukuphi mfowethu lunguza sikubone.

mkhize wena awazi ukuthi ujesu likakarashi,uzwile lomfo othi ujesu wazalelwa e iraq amakhiwa abalohawu ngoba beweyisa amakakarashi ,bathi ujesu ngumlungu,kakulabelungu e iraq,bazenza okleva,bahamba beseyisa ezinyizizwe,ujesu kazange afike eyurope wayengelapassport lemali pela uyise wayezihlupekela

Wee Cypepah mfethu,ubogawula ubheka amazwi ngoba indaba zokholo lezi zisensetive over.Ungezwa kusasa sekuthiwa kulabanye kunkundla lapha aba disrespecta amabeliefs lamafaiths abanye abantu.

Bafowethu.

Owami umbono usekutheni oNKULU-NKULU ukhona. Udubo lulapha: ekuhlanganiseni oNkulu-Nkulu lamadlozi sikubize ngagama linye.

Ngibona angathi yikho lapho esilahleka khona kucine sekusiba lodlame ezinye izive sezibulala ezinye ngoba kungezwanwanwa ekukhonzeni.

Ngizaphinda ngithi: ONkulu-Nkulu wadala zonke izinto kanye leMILIMO (GODS). I Milimo ngamadlozi ezive ezehlukeneyo. GODS are ancestral Spirits of different nations. Therefore there is no God that is greater than another God. Only to its tribe or nation is that God great. LINGESABI.

That brings us to my argument that the GREAT SPIRIT oNkulu-Nkulu, is not a god. Gods are not the Great Spirit.

IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING, ITS VOCABULARY MUST BE USED IN ITS ORIGINAL STATE. MEANINGS MUST NOT BE CHANGED TO SUIT DESIRES. That is what happened in Christianity. The name GOD was adopted from the Caucasians, and given to the GREAT SPIRIT. That is wrong. O NKULU-NKULU can not be named after his creation.

Li Zwangendaba.

ZWANGENDABA

Ngilombuzo lapha mfowethu,kanti amaCaucasians lawa kwakungabantu mhlobo muni,and what influence did they have religiously?.
Siza mfowethu.

Bafowethu.

Ungivumele ngiyidinge le indaba khonapha eNkundleni. Angisakwazi ukuthi sasixoxa ngani ngasengichasisa ngama Caucasian. Nxa ingacacanga, ngizaphinda njalo.

Umcijo wami kwakuyikuthi nxa UYIHLO engu NDLOVU, angafa uba lidlozi lako NDLOVU. Isizwe senu singakhula uba lidlozi lasoneso sizwe. Loba izeve zinqobana, amadlozi alezo ezinqotshiweyo ayahlonitshwa. Lokhu esikubonayo okweza labeLUMBI ngokokuBHUBHISA isive. Ngoba uyatsho UMBHALO wesintu uthi, "UKUZE UBHUBHISE ISIVE, KUMELE UQALE NGOKUBHUBHISA USIKO LWASO".

Li Zwangendaba.

NCEDANI ABANOLWAZI
lbhayibheli elingcwele lithi lona isidalwa sakuqala kwaba uAdamu,kwazovela owangakwakhe uEva.Bobabili babusiswa ngeyingane zambili nazo,uAbheli noKhayeni[Cain].Uyasho futhi umbhalo uthi wona uKhayeni[cain]wafinyelelwa wumoya kasatane wabulala umfowabo uAbheli.Ngemva kwalesosehlakalo esaba yinsumansumane yendaba,uyaqhubeka umbhalo uthi wona uKhayeni wathathela enyaweni elubhekise kwezinye izizwe zase Nod kwimpumalanga yaseEden[Gen.4v16] apho afika wagana khona.
[And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bore Enoch: and he built a city, and called the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.Gen.4v17]

lnkinga engibanayo ngalo mbhalo phecelezi yikuthini, kepha-ke ,njengobana uAdamu noEva kanye nenhlanyelo yabo kwakuyibona izidalwa zakuqala apha emhlabeni;
1]pho izizwe uKhayeni ayaphephela kuzo zona izidalwa zakhona zazivele zidalwe nini?
2]njalo uKhayeni[cain] wagana umntakabani ma kuyikuthi uAdamu noEva nabantwababo kwakuyibona zidalwa zakuqala apha emhlabeni?

Ncedani bandla ngoba kimina kubonakala sengathi vele uAdamu no Eva ayisibona bantu bakuqala apha emhlabeni kodwa wayevele ekhona omunye uzulu ngaphambilini,eg abaseNod empumalanga yesivande sase Eden.

SIZANI BO

Ukuze sizwisise konke okulotshwe ebhayibhilini kumele sisibuze umbuzo-lo. Ngubani owaloba ibhayibhili? Ugwalo lolu lwavela ngaphi sibili? Ngilethemba ukuthi inengi lethu kalikwazi ukuthi ugwalo lolu lwavela ngaphi. Njalo into emangalisayo yile. AmaKrestu amanengi azenza abantu abalwaziyo kakhulu lolugwalo kube kanti kabakwazi ukuthi lwavelva ngaphi.

Ungabuza amaKrestu ukuthi ngubani owaloba ibhayibhili impendulo ongayizwa yile, “Ibhayibhili lalotshwa ngamaJuda” Ungabuza ukubana baliloba bengaphi, kakho ongakuphendula lowombuzo. Kungani? Amabandla amaKrestu ikakhulu ibandla leRoma lazama ukubana indaba yemvelo lokubunjwa kwebhayibhili ingaziwa ngabantu kodwa yacina isiphuma egcekeni.

AmaJuda kasiwo aloba ibhayibhili. UAlexander the Great esenqobe abantu abamnyama eGipite wacela ukubana ingwalo ezaziseGipite ziqoqwe zitolikelwe elwimini lwesiGreek. Yizo lezi ingwalo ezabumba ibhayibhili. Zatolikwa lezongwalo zafakwa ndawonye egwalweni olulodwa. Ibhayibhili ngesiGreek kutsho ukuthi ugwalo (a book). Abelungu sebebone ukubana ukuthi okulotshwe kulolugwalo kumumethe ilizwi elihle izizwe zoke zafisa ukubana zibe lalo lolugwalo. Kwaba-ke le King James version eye England, Dutch verison, German version, Americna version, etc.

Ingwalo lezi zazise Alexandria eGipite njalo kulapho ezatolikelwa khona. Zazingekho eIsrael. Zatolikwa njalo ngabantu abamnyama bazipha amaGreek. Abantu abatolika lezo ncwadi bafisa ukuzenza ezabo. Incwadi lezi zazilotshwe ngendimi ezitshiyeneyo njalo ukutolikwa kwazo kwathatha iminyaka elikhulu. Nxa amaJuda eyiwo ayebhale lezo ncwadi (njengoba bezennza abantu abafundileyo) kwakuzathatha isikhathi esilde kangaka-na? Zinengi okungakanani ingwalo ebhayibhilini ezingathatha isikhathi eside kangaka? Ukutolikwa kwalezingwalo kwathatha isikathi eside ngoba abantu ababelobe lezo ncwadi basebecithekile bebalekela yena uAlexander.

Ibhayibhili lilandisa indalo lempilo yabantu abansundu. Abantu abaloba ibhayibhili ngabantu abansundu. Amabizo akuTestamenti endala ngamabizo abantu abamnyama. Lanamhlanja amabizo-la ayasetshenziswa nagabantu abamnyama. Usuke wazibuza na kungani amaJuda engakhonzi iTestamenti elitsha? ITestament elitsha latolikwa ngamaNgisi. AmaNgisi kazange afake amabizo abantu abamnyama ayekhona encwadini ezibumba itestamenti elitsha, bafaka amabizo esingisi o John, oMathew, oLuke, oJames, etc. Lokhu babesenzela ukubana bathi bona yibo abaloba ibhayibhili. Njalo wona amaJuda azondwa njengabantu ababulala uJesu.

Ekuqaleni bemukelwa kahle sibili eEurope lababantu babanika ibizo lokuthi ngamaJuda. Ngokuya kwesikhathi bazondwa laba bantu ngoba kwasekulomhawu njalo basebethatha ezinye izizwe zabamhlophe okwenza abamhlophe babazonde ngamandla. Akula ngithso ilizwe elilodwa eEurope elalithanda amaJuda. Babethethiswa ngabelungu besithi ungaze ubemhlophe kodwa emithanjeni yakho kugeleza igazi elimnyama. Siyakwazi ukubana vele wena wawumnyama. Lanxa Uhitler wayebulala amaJuda ezinye izizwe zabona kufanele ngoba vele lababantu babezondwa. Kuleso sikhathi Uhitler kabulalanga amaJuda kuphela, wabulala labantu abamnyama, into nje engakhulunywayo njalo engalotshwanga engalweni ze history. Kambe umuntu omnyama kuyini? AmaJuda yiwo aletha iziqgili zakuqala eEurope, kwakungabantu abamnyama.

Indaba yamaJuda yahlupha kakhulu kwaze kwadingwa icebo lokubana iliungiswe lendaba. AmaNgisi abona kufanele ukubana laba bantu babiselwe eAfrika lapho abavela khona. Kwathiwa bayekwakha eUganda. AmaJuda ala, acela ukubana basiwe ePalastine lapho abacina befakwa khona babumba umbuso wabo.

Abantu bebhayibhili ngabantu abamnyama njalo yibo abaloba ingwalo ezibumba ibhayibhili. Kulogwalo oluhle olucasisa lendaba, “The African who wrote the Bible” by Nana Banche Darkwah. Egwalweni lwakhe ulama reference ezinye izingwalo ezalotshwa ngamaJuda lezinye imbali ezivumelana lombono-lo.

Badala abahloniphekayo.

uMangethe ubhala ethi

".........Kodwa,engingakutsho yikuthi,ayibanjwe ngonanzelelo olukhulu kakhulu. Its a sensetivu ishu. UBanana wake wazama ukugu qula iBhayibhili,ungaphi lamhla? Omunye lomunye kazidingele ulwazi oluqotho ngokubala IBhayibhili
Ku chapter yokuqala ekhuluma ngendalo Ku Genesis. "


he reduces The Almighty to some -if (only this once ) i use a comparison a sneaky human being who has to resort to devious means to get even with individuals who "distort" scripture or try to introduce debate .

lets take two religious organisations for argument sake - who use the same scripture study it and come up with completely divergent views.suppose one of them study the book of revelation and after "inspiration come up with the conclusion that the beast mentioned is The United Nations/America (for argument sake lets say one is the other )

Scenario two another religious organisation comes up with the conclusion that the beast being refered to is some leader of one of the largest religious movement in the world.

these two religious groups cannot be both right at the same time .if one or both of them are wrong on this issue . who is to stop them being wrong on two or more issues

The Bible has been a sensitive issue to some because there have those who wanted to preach lies to the people and use ways to dominate them.

The early apostolic fathers of Christianity and the Church knew of many things that they did not want Christian masses to know about the background history, content and the people of the Bible. As a result, the very design of Christianity was based upon protecting the Bible from the masses. Until reformation, therefore, the Bible was secretly guarded and its content was known only to a few in the church. Because of the perceived need to protect the Bible form the masses, the earliest design and practice if Christianity was based upon placing a cadre of priest between the Bible and the people. These priests were secretly trained and taught to teach the Bible only in the manner prescribed by the Church. Even when the Bible became available to the masses, Christianity still argued that the Bible is so complex that the lay masses would not understand it so they still needed trained people to interpret the Bible to them. This was again intended to control the interpretation of the Bible base upon the secrets early apostolic fathers did not want the masses to know.

Because the development of Christianity was based upon many things that the apostolic fathers did not want the masses to know, interpretations of the Bible that began in Western Europe and was propagated around the world through Christianity have based upon some serious falsehoods and false assumptions. Numerous Europeans scholars have known and written about these falsehoods and false assumptions in the foundations of Christianity. For example, in Volume I of The National Genesis: A book of the Beginnings, Gerald Massey (1883) called the story and practices of Christianity the legendary lying lore.

Among the falsehoods and false assumptions in the foundations of Christianity has been the belief that the Jewish people that followed the Bible into Europe actual wrote the documents of the Bible. Another false assumption is that Jesus was white man with blonde hair, blue eyes, and white skin. Have you ever thought for a while why Hillter thought of Europeans as a pure race with blonde hair, blue eyes and white skin? Another one assumptions was that the black people are a cursed race and that’s why they are black. And they claim to have found the interpretation in the Bible.

That’s why we need to correct these wrong interpretation which stems from the false assumptions and falsehoods. The pity is that the black people have been taught to defend the legendary lying lore.

Let's open our eyes!