Ngicela ukubuza lapha bakwethu lingiqondise njalo nxa kuyikuthi ngiyaphosisa.

Senginanzelele ukumemetheka kwamalunga ebandla le Sabatha kwelika Mthwakazi.

Leli bandla likhanya njalo lavulela abanengi ko Mthwakazi indlela zokuya funda ngaphetsheya ko lwandle. Ngapha ko Gangeni ibambile iSabatha kwabaka Mthwakazi hatshi kancane.

Angitsho ukuthi yisenzakalo esibi lesi hatshi, ngidinga ukuzwisisa lokucubungula ukuthi yiwaphi ama ophotshunithi esingaweba ngabazalwane laba.

Asixoxeni ngesineke!

Ngingu Msabatha mina but angiwatholanga lawo ma ophotshunithi....

Wena obaziyo bangaki .....Nceda mama mhlawumbe lami ngingathola phela ...

lami ngingumsabatha but okhuluma ngakho bengingakunanzeleli

Dade,

Uyibeke kahle ,vele nje koGuswini kulapho edabuka khona ,amathuba okuyaphetsheya abekade evelela abantwana babafundisi lama church elders , amadecon lama deconikazi ,eyinye into omele uyikhangelisise lapha dade amasabatha awathandi ukumanyana labanye . mina mathupha ngingumsabatha loku engikutshoyo ngiyakwazi angikufanisi . Kukalutshwana ukuthola umsabatha emkhosini wabntu abanengi ,kusuka kubelokuzibona ubungcwelengcwele kakhulu .abanye sekuyi fashion ukubangumsabatha .

Ngiyazi bazakwala abanye kodwa iqiniso liqiniso bafethu ,ongcwele utholakala khona lapha ngakithi , hk hk hk

Dade Mabila
Muhle umbuzo wakho.Mina angazi kumbe amathuba aphiwa yi-Church manengi kakhulu ukuthi kungakhanya sobala ukuthi ibadla livula amathuba okwedlula ezinye indlela. Engivumelana lawe yikuthi kuyamangalisa ukubana abakaMthwakazi abangamaSabatha bande kakhulu kangaka. Singabuyela emuva singananzelela ukuthi iSabatha ivele yona kwayo i-strict whether its towards iBhayibhili or imphilo oyiphilayo. With this in mind, I am not suprised ukubana umfowethu uMbizo ethi amaSabatha awamanyani labanye, its a difficult(actually not for amaSabatha) choice ukuya ephathini ngolwesihlanu ntambama or observe isabatha wethu.

Kuyenjalo kulendaba yobuzalwane whereby its easier to ask umzalwane ukubana umntwana afikele kuBhudi Nasinga oweSabatheni eMsix kumbe eMagwegwe.
What is needed is a study to compare i perfomance yabantwana bamaSabatha koMthwakazi against abantwana bakaMthwakazi in general.
But I still believe ukuthi the strict upbringing usesemncane eSabatheni holds you in good stead noma nje you later desert ibandla.
Yiwo owami lowo dade which could be far off the truth, as other churches might claim the same

Utsho kahle kaMjaji nxa uthi bandile. Ngiyabonga ukungisekela kwakho. Bandile njalo bafundile njalo ba sakisekisifulu okukhanyayo. Asiqhubekeni ngizaveza ngokuya kwenkulumo ukuba ngiyaphi ngengxoxo le.

Ukweduka ngokomuntu onke angikholwa ukuthi singathi abantwana bama Sabatha bedlula abanye.

Umhlaba ke kwelika Mthwakazi? Unganani owama Sabatha?? Ngitsho yona land leyo sibili ekhathazayo. Yathengwa libandla kumbe bayiphiwa?

Ngiyakuzwa Mbizo ngonguzikhukhumeza langokuzibona beyibo bodwa abakhethiweyo ukuya eZulwini. Yi doctrine yebandla ekudalayo lokho. Kodwa ngibona abanengi besiya bencibilika nanku lama Sabatha asesisithi pssssssss kwabangasi maSabatha. Odade sebevunula amabhulugwe labanye sebe gqoka amacici baqhine lenwele. Kwakungaqalwa lokho!

UBUYA LALO KUHLE UDABA LWAKHO DADE NGIVUMELANA LAWE UKUTHI AMATHUBA AYAVULEKA EBUSABATHENI KUSIYA NGOKUTHI UNGUBANI EMPILWENI NXA UNGUNJWATHI NJENGATHI AKWANDANGA UKUBA LULA KODWA MA KUKHONA IMULI YAKWENU EYAZAKALA NGAKHO HAYI KUBA LULA NJE.

NGIKHULUMA NJE UDADEWETHU EHALALE WAYESELITHOLILE LELO THUBA LOKUZA LANA ENGILANDI KODWA KASAPHUMELELANGA WAYA WASWELAKALA, YIKHO NGITHI KUYA NGOKUTHI UNGUBANI ESIKHATHINI ESABATHENI.

MINA NGIZALWA EMASABATHENI NGIKHULE KHONA KWAZE KWABE YIMINYAKA EMIBALWA EDLULILEYO LAPHO ENGISUKE NGATHI HAYI NGIGEZA IZANDLA NGOBA ABANYE BAKHONA AYISIBO LABO ABAFUNA SIBABONE OR SIBAZI BEYIKHONA, UKUZIPHAKAMISA, UKUBEKELA ABANYE ABANTU PHANSI LOKUTHI IMULI YAKOBANI IPHAKEME SEKUMELE IKHONZWE LENYAKANYAKA YONKE NJE KUNZIMA. HAYI MINA NGATHI NGIKUBONA KUNGALUNGANGA LOKHO EBANTWINI ABAZITHI MAKHOLWA LABALANDELA I 10 COMMANDMENTS. IMPILO YAKHONA YONKE NGIYAYAZI INSIDE OUT NGOBA NGISUKA KHONA.

Mina lami ngikhulele usabatheni EKEZI and so i beg to differ labantu abathi sizenza abangcono. mIna khonapha koMaggie ngibona amachurch amanengi ngumncintiswano okugqoka lezikhundla. Kungaphi lapho okulombuthano okungela zibhakera? Isabatha ikhonzevethivu bhayi netsha. Akusikho kuthi sithi singcono. That is the way kungakhona. Asikhangeleli bani phansi.Kanti wena ngxa usetshetshi ulande ukuzakhangela ukuthi ye obani balezikhundla? Bangakupha wena ungasala yini?AmaRoma lawo alenketha betshabi. Izikolo zabo ngezabo bodwa. We are only comfortable with those that think and act like we do .An outsider might think it wierd but they too have their own way of doing izinto that i might find wierd

Mabila
Ngiqondise dade:
Umbono wami wokuthi abantwana bamaSabatha bayedlula banye bengingajonganga ukubana they are more intelligent but ukuthi; they are either from stricter parents or go to strict schools zeSabatha. Thus they tend to perfom well above their peers of the same intellect from outside the churh. I think this is common in any society whereby if the school has a good headteacher it perfoms well or when parents are strict they children perfom well. Lapha kwelika khwini kuhlanganise lentengo zezindlu eziseduze lesikolo esenza kuhle ziyadula.

Umhlaba bazanceda abanye ngoba ama-facts ami aweneli, kodwa ngiyazi ukubana ukhona.

Whilst we are on this subject; ngibona angani okunye okwenza iSolusi yancitshwa i-charter for a long time yibo lobu ubunengi bukaMthwakazi kubandla.
Dade Nomangqika
Ngilusizi ukubana kulabantu abakwenza untshintshe ibandla. Ungadeli, kuyatholakala zonke ndawo empilweni yinqe yiliphi ibandla. Ngethemba uzazuza elinye ibandla elizakujabulisa, okuyikhona okuqakathekileyo.

NomaNdebele!

Limqotho lelo dade elengxabano lapho okuvele kulabanti khona kanye lase mabandleni. Yimvelo. Okumele sikukhumbule yikuthi sonke siyizoni. Umehluko nje yikuthi oya ecaweni usezinqunule wazibona ubuze lokwehluleka kwakhe kwenyama. Ngicela nje singagxili kumcintiswano lokugconana okukhona among us as individuals but rather on the big picture.
Abafundisi bayeba bayafeba balamanga zonke indawo kuwo wonke amabandla akukhethile.

angijonganga ukukhuba amasabatha kodwa ngizawatshela iqiniso,amasabatha azibona ngcono kulamabandla wonke womhlaba.ungabathola sebe kutshela ukuthi wena ilanga okhonza ngalo ayisilo elakhethwayo kungani babekhona mhla umdali edala umhlaba.

bayazigqaja, abalamusa abakhanya bangani balawo ufake umusa wakhona ngowokuthola abakufunayo ngaleso 'sikhathi.angikhulumi ngento engingayaziyo ngivela khona lami.inye into engiyithandayo ngamasabatha iphimbo,bayahlabela labo bantu.bangakuculela lapha uyalibona izulu emhlabeni.lingizwe kuhle masabatha ngumbono wami lowu.

akusoka lingelasici ,amasonto wonke ayafana nje,umehluko ulapha ekutheni lifundiswani.cleanliness is next to godliness ,ma usmart bathi uyazikhukhumeza,amazayoni ubabona besiyenkozweni bengagezanga benukamakhwapha,umsabatha kahlangani lengcekeza,wonke amasonto athi wozani kwelethu isonto,so ukuthi amasabatha enza lokhu ,kawenzi lokhuya akusizi .ube kulesonto elakhethwa ngu Nkulunkulu ube awakho lawamanye ube kakukho ukusolana,wonke azama ukuya kumdali."inhliziyo iqapele umhla we sa ba tha ". kumnandi esabatheni ma lingakwazi,okokuqgoka never mind yiskhathi,

Bafowethu.

bakwethu, ngiyayikholisa le ndaba yenu njalo ngiyafunda. Engingakuzwisisiyo lulimi olusetshenziswayo lapha, luyangiphica kancane, kumbe lutholakala ku "BIBLE". e.g.
NGIPHINDE:
_______________________________________________________________________
Isabatha ikhonzevethivu bhayi netsha.
________________________________________________________________________

Lapha kangikwazi ukuthi lulimi bani kumbe kule "Spelling mistake"?

Kodwa okweqinisa, inhle kakhulu ingxoxo yenu.

Li Zwangendaba.

Angazi njalo, mina ngilabo bangani abangamaSabatha, uma bengekho eChurch baziphatha njengaye wonke umuntu, badla esikudlayo badlale imidlalo esiyidlalayo, lapha ngizama ukuthi angithembi ukuthi amaSabatha ayazikhukhumeza. AmaSabatha njengawo wonke amabandla azibona asendleni eyiyona eqondileyo, noma bazibona kuyiyona inqubo eqondile yokukhonza uNkulunkulu, umehluko usekutheni amaSabatha go further ekutheni bacina bebona amanye amabandla angalahlekileyo ngoba engakhonzi ngosuku lwangesaturday. Mina ngesikhathi ngisakhonza omunye umngane wami ongumSabatha wangitshela ukuthi ngimane ngizimoshela kumbe ngizicithela isikhathi ngokukhonza ngesonto ngoba vele angingeke ngiye ezulwini. Chazani ke bakwethu ngalolusuku lwesabatha.

There was Guta,zion,Jesus a politician,now Sabatha,tell me is it some form of smear campaign surfacing to degrade people's beliefs in our society under some sinister disguise?

Nomandebele

Hatshi mina angilandisi kangako ngesabatha. Ngike ngakhonza kuyo iminyaka enguthu ngisasesikolo yikho ngifuna ukubuza unoma ukuthi ubengenela ngaphi kwendawo. mina ngangisesabatheni ngo1997&1998 esikolo okuthiwa yishashane mission khonale eKezi.Noma maybe sasisonta sonke.

Hmmm, asinanzeleleni ukuthi sizacina sesimi ngamunye ngamunye ngokudazulululana ngezinto ezingelamanceda. Lapha bengithi kumbe uMthwakazi ulwisa ukuthola uzibuse, kodwa cha kukhanya sichobana intwala nje.

Kungasenani konke lokhu yimibono yama indivijuwali, akukho ongcono kulomunye. Ozibona jusi nguye osekucineni komzila. Othola ekhangelelwa phansi kuyikuthi laye nje uzibhekela phansi. Obona abanye bezibetha abazi ngcono ngebhayibhili kumbe ngoNkulunkulu ulahlekile ngoba ukhangelele emuntwini ekudingeni usindiso.

Okhaliphileyo kakhangelele kuMdali wakhe ehlukane lokuchitha isikhathi ekhangele njalo esola omunye umuntu onjengaye. Okhulele ebandleni yiloba yiliphi wasebhazuka kangavezi amakhwapha anukayo phakathi komphakathi, kabuyele kulelo bandla ayekuma phambili kwalo abethe izikhalo zakhe njengomzalwane 'ongcono'.

Khona ungazibona ubhazuka ebandleni ubhazukiswa ngabantu, kusamele unanzelele ukuthi ibandla akusilakho njalo akusilomuntu kodwa ngelikaNkulunkulu, kungakho qedelana loMdali uyekele abantu bakaMlimu labo osubagcona ngokungasuthiseki kwakho.


Bakwethu ayihlome ilwise umgonondo lo osincindezeleyo sihlukane lokucazululana lamabandla langamabandla okungesiwo asincindezeleyo. Nxa sixoxa ngamabandla asingangenisi inkulumane ezilenketha ngoba zizatshabalalisa isizwe.

Ngiyabonga bakwethu.

Siphepheli mfethu
Uyibeka kuhle baba.
Lami besengibona angani injongo yodaba lolu ibisihlanekelwa. Abanye bethu besesi hlanzela kunkundla esikumumetheyo ngaphakathi.
Udade uMabila ubebuze ngobunengi bamaSabatha kuphela nje. Ngingazi dade kumbe ngiya phosisa?

Hatshi ke Lizwakele elika S'phepheli ngoba umqoka nguMdali ... kubi kakhulu ukuzwa ukuthi abantu betshiya isonto ngendaba yabantu ...

Anyways that being said ...mina ngise Canada madoda ngidinga abantu base Toronto ukuze sike sihlangane and chill out ... well nxa ungumsabatha or you are not thats not a problem with me .....

Kulabantu abafike bevela eStates and might want just to know indawo lezinye izinto .... i might be of help .....

Uyayibona ke indaba engisanda kuyitshawudela uthandindaba. Abantu sesiphonguwela nje njengempukane asisabali sizwisise udaba, sesiphongungena sigabadele nje sintule lelizwe. Nomakanjani akulasizwe esizasakha makunje. Kukhanya khona vele nje kulezinsuku kulinkundla akusahlaziywa ezilomnkantsho sesihlwahlwathela nje okwegwala elilwa licimezile.

Bafowethu.

NGIPHINDE INKULUMO:
__________________________________________________________________________
There was Guta,zion,Jesus a politician,now Sabatha,tell me is it some form of smear campaign surfacing to degrade people's beliefs in our society under some sinister disguise?
__________________________________________________________________________

MAQHAMA, you will be the last one to deny people A FORUM to INQUIRE and LEARN. Be it politics, religion, culture, or whatever, let Mthwakazi debate these things without FEAR. Fear includes being worried that someone will be offended by your QUEST FOR KNOWLEDGE.

Li Zwangendaba.

1Pet 2:9

quote:

---

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an Holy nation, a perculiar people; that ye should shew forht the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvellous Light:

---

don't pick the bait ye smarter than that.

See maybe ngiyakwazi .Mina ngingumzukulu kaNdaminya ngemva kwakoBanko esitolo.Asazane mnhlobo.Mina ngikhulele khona kanye eKezi but angifundanga khona.Wena uzalwa ngaphi?

Mina ke bengikhonza eShashane High labo titshala uNgwenya lomkakhe uMAgwebu.Angizi ukuthi yi semu sikolo yini?

nomandebele

mina ngifunde eshashane kuform 1& 2 ngo97 and 98.uNgwenya engimkhumbulayo wayefundisa eprimary elabantwana abathiwa ngumabo(sibonokuhle)loNtokozo ongumfana okunguye engangifunda laye.There is another ngwenya but sengibakhohliwe abantu bakhona but there was a gal called Mangwe and sengimkhohliwe ibizo lakhe.By then uheadmaster wayethiwa ngu Z.Lunga laye ubesonta khonalapho esikolo. Kobhango bengidlula khona when going to school coz bengihlala eweather station(met office) duze lesbhedlela.Igenge ezazihlala duze lakobhango ngiyazi oTshiki umfana owayedume kakhulu ngebhora, oJB, madagascar, thulani(girl)etc.

angazi ngiya phosisa yini bakithi umthwakazi umumethe inkolo ezinengi lamabandla amanengi yikhoke ukuziphatha kwabo esizweni sethu yinto sonke njengabantwana besizwe esikhululekileyo ukuxoxa ngayo ,abachothozayo bangachothoza , abancomayo bancome nje kungabi yinto ecunula abanye as long as bengahlanjazwa kumbe be thukwa angiboni nkinga mina isabatha iyindaba egudwini lapha ekhaya bakithi udelma lupepe uyala ukudlala ibhola ngomqgibelo ngoba elisabatha sebeze bahambisana emthethwandaba ngale indaba yikhoke vele lendaba yamasabatha kusamele siyixoxe kabanzi ,esingakwenza yikuxhaya ukuthuka but omunye engabuya lendaba yamapostoli ,kumbe amapentecostal church Inkundla kusafanele iyitshuke phela yinkundla le

Uyitshaya ekhaleni mfokaMatshetshe.People must feel free to dicuss any topic la kwiforum.Angithi yiyo i democracy leyo esiyikhalelayo? Ma siza hlala sikhuluma ngezombangazwe kuphela singacina sihlanya phela.

Ekuqaleni kwami lindaba, ngiqale ngokuncoma iBandla le Sabatha nge ntuthuko esobala eliyiveze kubantwana baka Mthwakazi ezifundweni, empilweni lakubo somabhizimuzi (Dr. Mthuli Ncube comes to mind here). It is commendable and appreciated indeed.

Senze njani ukuthi leli bandla lisondele kwezo mbusazwe njengokwenziwa yi Roma? How do we make this organization politically relevant to the Mthwakazi cause??

Sayincoma sonke iReport ye Matebeleland Massacres from the Catholic Priests for Peace and Justice eyeza lama Roma njalo lomsebenzi ka Baba uPius Ncube siwubukele sonke. Nxa ikhona icontribution yama Sabatha kwezombusazwe engingakaze ngiyazi, lingixolele.

I am not in anyway undermining any contribution that the SDA has done in our midst but just curious to know if the Mother Church cannot be challenged to do more in times of distress such as we find ourselves in.I am aware of Siphepha Nkomo's struggles to restore the publishing licence ye Daily News but that was in a different capacity. I am also aware that ama Sabatha individually were arrested, bangena le mpini ngenxa yenkululeko.

I seriosly think that in our quest for justice and freedom for Mthwakazi, we should leave no stone unturned in identifying and enlisting the support of potent individuals, organizations and strategies in our midst. I Sabatha for me stands out as one such organisation that we are unfortunately under-utilizing.I personally find absolutely find no contradiction between my quest for Mthwakazi lokubalikholwa ngoba to me the fundamental guiding principle is JUSTICE!!

Mabila

well umbuzo wakho muhle kakhulu but as usual kukhona abahlahlathileyo ekuwuphenduleni baxoxa ngokuziqakisa kwamaSabatha lobungcwelengcwele bawo, kunjalo lasesikolo amaessays abamiqondoqondo kuthi ababukhali batshaye ekhaleni.

ithi ngiyiqalele emva indaba yakho, okwakuqala iSabatha yazalwa eMelika ngama1800. iSabatha yavuka kakhulu ngehealth message which became the right arm of it's gospel and saw the birth of formal sanitoriums, hospitals, schools, seminaries and finally universities which were all governed and coordinated from Battle Creek Michigan. eMelika ilama-institutions anjenge Andrews, Oakwood, Loma Linda, La Sierra(Riverside) and countless seminaries and sanitoriums(clinics, elderlyhomes etc).

as healthful living took the centre stage the SDAs saw a need of selfreliance and sufficience becoz synthetic strains of foodstuffs were fast infiltrating the foodmarket. this saw the rise of the Kellogg Broes, Colgate and very scientifics inventions which were there to increase wellness like the saunas, trademills all this is archived at Battle Creek and can be viewed by anyone free of charge but don't go there on the Sabbath i.e Fri sunset to Sat sunset.

all this became a boost to the local economy and the whole country, they became a force the gvt could not bypass. Consequently, fellow SDAs from other countries attended these universities some as students, parttime, nurses, general workers, etc etc this was a legitimate way of entering the US and the federal gvt had never had any problems of welfare dependence from the SDAs unlike someone who has an I20 from a state university. this explains why a lot of them went to the States not Europe. this is one point.

Honesty and Intergrity

these were twin pillars of SDA dealings. unlike Catholics there is no gvt sponsorship, in Canada for sure, towards SDA institutions they have to fork-it-out which explains the expensive fees etc.
these twin pillars are vertues and hence very individualistic. the infancy stage of SDA provided a platform to inculcate and cultivate these vertues amongst it's members coz chronologically SDAs are a young flock even numerical, only about 14M worldwide membrship.
therefore Mthwakazi is a reciprocal both agewise and in numbers these two vertues can be emulated, true to one's self fellowman and finally to God.

Politics
as pointed out earlier that SDAs are "aloof" they don't want to mix'n'match, simpley becoz they are with us only in space but not in time this is a subtly fact but very very important. Actually what people call Friday night kumafaro SDAs call Sabbath evenning. according to the SDA reconing of time the night precedes the day part of a given day this is the only way for example one can explain how Jesus was 3days and 3nights in the grave yet He died Fri 3pm and rose sunday morning. if you ask pastors from various denominations they can not explain that. they can only go as far as thus not very important or it doesn't contribute towards salvation but check 2Tim 2:15. as a result the factor of time separates them from others viewed as ukuzibona ngcono but yikukholwa kwabo ukuthi angeke bazibandakanyise lozulu if they can avoid it like partying on Sabbath evenning or attending circular meetings. therefore it is safe for them to form their own clique, from which they know they can not be invited for any circular events on the Sabbath unless extremely necesary like sickness, death or accidents and the likes. so if we want to utilise SDAs in our leadership or political structures at least afford them a chance not to defile the Sabbath which mugabe will be so happy to have such politicians, all the important statutory meetings will be held on the Sabbath hk hk.

the questions(unrelated to this issue) of which day really is the Sabbath betwixt Sunday and Saturday? this can be delt with under an appropriate thread if need be.

thus far i think Mthwakazi can tape from these people.

Disclaimer

don't attack me as a person Mabila's question is at national level let's refrain from you, and use them and such collective terms coz abangaziyo will fall into the trap yokuthi kanti Lembe besingelawe ngolwesihlanu ntambama ebunandini?

Hmmmmm!

Dade Mabila
Ngibona umfowethu, uLembe, wethule ibackground yebandla lamaSabatha okusobala.
Bengithi ngengezelele ngamafitshane nge-structure yechurch, ngoba ngibona kulencazelo kulokho.
Okokuqala ngibona angani Sabatha is not structured in such a way that you have powerful bishops , Cardinals or a Papal figure. Okwesibili, at higher levels of the church local conference to general conference you have officers appointed for a set period only 3 to 5 yrs service. Therefore you find its less likely they go on to act like political leaders.
I think other churches have these figures who can take on the powers that be, using their position of being the Bishops or such highly recognised posts, njengabo Ncube.

ESabatheni you find that the minister(pastor) consults with the local elders a lot and thus he doesn't yeild outright "power" on his church even though he is appointed by the local conference. Simply put they cannot easily impose their political views on the church

Ngiyalizwa Bafowabo. Omuyi bangiphethe. Ngizaliphendula.

Am surprised though ukuthi ibandla le Sabatha litsha kangaka...interesting. Why did the originators come up with or sungula iSDA ngoba ngabo 1800 ayevele esekhona amanye ama protestant churches, ebalekela iRoma?

Kellogg Foundation has a huge philanthropy arm to it over and above it's cereal business and their mission being; "To help People Help Themselves"???.
Interesting. I don't know if the points I am raising are relevant to the debate but they are trully captivating.

SDA is a big international organization. Should the political influence (as intimated by Lembe above) of its big business affiliates such as Kelloggs and Colgate be limited to the USA kuthiwe abanengi ziboneleni?? I know for certain that Kellogg has a large presence in South America and recently South Africa. OR maybe, I should be splitting the functionalities of Kellogg/Colgate from the mission of the SDA?? Lingiqondise.

Asiqhubekeni......

MABILA

sorry to direct this response to you but i think it's appropriate.

Kellogg and Colgate

actually i brought these examples just to emphasize on
the health reforms which became the centre stage of the SDA message. Right now you'll discover that the above mentioned companies have became multi-national co-ops and their management structures know nothing about adventism. maybe the pioneers really cared about adventism coz rightnow some of the stakeholders in these companies are business tycoons who careless about church. these businesses are private entities which the SDA church has no claim over nor any share except personal tithes from individuals associated with them.

Therefore the effects of political influences really is a concern of the owners and the way they expand their empires is their sole discretion. Moreso, you'll find that adventism was conceived in Europe during the Waldensian times. these people believed and tought the seventh day sabbath as saturday and still binding to christians they were persecuted for that. Historically, adventists
recognise reformers like Martin Luther , John Knox ,Jerome Huss and many others.

Most of the founding members belonged to the Baptists like the William Millers, Ellen and James White. However, these people were now in a freeworld(America) the bible was now available even to the simple. People studied the scriptures and the American constitution protected civil and religios liberties by separating the state from the church. The study of the prophecies (Daniel& The Revelation) led them to the conclusion that the sabbath is part of God's law which no man has authority to change or rephrase, this separated them from fellow protestants who espoused sunday.

THE most biblical teaching which saw the SDAs breaking aways from their century old fellow protestants was the SANCTUARY message detailed by the prophet Daniel that unto 2300 days the sanctuary shall be cleansed, the prophecy provides
the starting date for the calculation of this 2300day period which commensed when King Aterxexus Longimenus of Assyria gave Nehemiah a decree to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem in 457BC. Those who are familiar with the old Jewish ritual of cleansing the Sanctuary will understand what's all the fuss about that particular prophecy. According to the calculation the prophecy ended in 1844AD. It was in october of that year on which the little flock was expecting the second coming of Jesus they sold all what they had and had everything in common gave up their lands and other earthly possession and people warned them of their mistakes but the power of the scripture fired them up when nothing happened some of them cursed the bible and apostacized. However a few like William Miller, James White and others went back to the scripture and found their mistakes(This incident is the one which John the REVELATOR described the little book[the book of Daniel] which was sealed, as sweet in the mouth when they ate it and became sour in the belly). This is the time these founding fathers, I mentioned before, adopted the name Seventh Day Adventist Chucrh or SDA. Therefore 1844 has become the traditional date on which SDA was born being concieved during the Hostile alliance of the European state and church which saw the priests deserting their sacerdotal duties engaging on brutal and heinous
inquisition with diplomatic immunity from the state,which left millions dead and displaced, burnt on the stake, some fed to vicious&hungry lions to provide entertainment in the stadium and arenas. All this explains why the birth of adventism in America and the disengagment of the SDA's clergy from cicurlar politics. Consequently, the separation of state and church is a profound doctrine amongst SDAs of which the union(state&church) will mark another wave of brutality. Therefore, SDA will never give power to their bishops or centralize it in anyway fearing this abuse of power which is ungodly. the effects of politics affect SDAs at individual level like any other civilian, the Church does not have any influence on political issues and cannot engage on such becoz it is founded on religious liberty i.e the separation of state and church, if the church as a body engages on political endeavours,that will be hypocracy.

mark the timing the Kelloggs and health reforms came after the Great Disappointment (after 1844) which in retrospect was the Great Appointment within the confines of the SANCTUARY made not by hands it's priesthood according to the order of Melchezedek the King of Salem as doctored by the Apostle Paul in the book to the Hebrews.

i hope this piece will shed more light and prolong this dispensation.

Mina ngangikhonza sibili iSabatha. Abazali bami bangifaka eLower Gwelo Mission lomfowethu senza iPrimary yethu le Secondary. Kodwa angizange ngithande izinto ezinengi engazibonayo e Lower Gwelo.

Into engayalayo yile:

1. Babesifundisa ukubana thina abantu abansundu sivela kuHem, yikho simnyama ngoba uNkulunkulu wasijezisa. Kumele sikholwe kuNkulunkulu ukuzie sisindiswe
2. Bangifundisa ukubana uNkulunkulu ngumuntu omhlophe, abantu bebhayibhili ngabantwana bakaNkulunkulu abamhlophe. Kube kanti nkonke lokhu kwakungamanga. Abantu bebhayibhili kwakungabantu abansundu.
3. Okwesithathu, ingwalo zonke zebhayiyibhili kugoqela izifundo zebhayibhili kwakulemifanekiso yabantu abamhlophe. Lokho bakwenza ukubana baqile abantu abansundu ukuthi bakholwe ukuthi amakhiwa ngabantu bakaNkulunkulu, abantu abangcwele. Mina kangizange ngibone ikhiwa elilungileyo. Ungabona ikhiwa likuthakazelela, kukhona elikufuna kuwe.
4. Sasitshelwa ukubana kumele sikhonze isithombe sikaJesu ukuze sisinde, uThixo angasibhubhisi. Ujesu-lo wayengumuntu omhlophe, olenwele ezimhlophe lamehlo afana lomkhathi. Umbuzo nanku, “Kungani uHitler labantu beEurope babengathandi amaJuda? Babekwazi ukuthi amaJuda azalwa ngabantu abamnyama.
5. Babesiqila ukubana sibhadale okwetshumi. Kambe imali yami engiyisebenzele kangaka, sengizabhadala uHulumende, ngibhandale amaSabatha. Ngizasala lani. Imali yonke yayisya e USA lapho okulesigpdlo se-SDA. Kungani imali-le yayingancedisi abantu bakithi? Abazali bami babhadala imali enengi kahulu abangazange bakwazi ukuthi yasetshenziswa kanjani.

Ngaphandle kokubana amabandla esiKrestu antshitshe (reformation) mina kangisoze ngalufaka olwami unyawo.

mmhh makheyi asazi shame hayi aaa kunzima ngiyaqala ukuzwa into enjalo loba lami sengaphuma esabatheni kodwa ukuthi kwakukhonzwa isithombe ngingazi njalo elower gwelo kodwa hayi ephelandaba bekunganjalo and ikakhulu lemalini lapha bengingazi ukuthi yayisiwa kwelemelika its news to me asazi njalo mmhhh kunzima shame.

Waze waligcona ibandla leSabatha konke lokhu okutshoyo liphoso wethu akulanto ngitsho leyodwa ehambelana lesabatha, ubofunda kuIsaiah loJeremiah bazakutshela imbali yomuntu omnyama njalo lokuthi why abantu abamnyama bajeziswa yiNkosi ungabala wethu uzazwisisa indaba yokukhonza izithombe ukuthi yavela ngaphi njalo why thina abantu abamnyama silokhu sihlupheka, kumnanadi ukulihluza ibhayibheli ikakhulu nxa ungazwisisi izigigaba ezenzeka emhlabeni.

Mfowethu Makheyi .... are you sure that you were not going to a ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH ........

Ngiyalizwa bazalwane labodade asebawayo ebandleni kuhlanganise lo mfowethu uMakheyi. Uyabona ke Makheyi ungathanda ukuhlakanipha kakhulu uzacaphula umfundisi kanye lezimvu zakhe zigcine zikugqubula ngekhanda. Kodwa ukukhalipha ukhaliphile sibili nanko phela wena ebandleni uhle unanzelele imali eyiyo kanye into ehlanganisa abantu ekholweni. Okusuka kwenzeke yikuthi izimvu ezinengi ziyatshelwa ukuthi zinikele kuthi ma sezenze njalo kuthiwe ziye bala ibhayibheli, ziphuma lapho ziye ku Kwaya zisuke ziye njalo kumvuselelo ziye futhi kuma cell meeting. Khonapho abanye bayabe besemalini leyana enikelweyo bathaphuza bethumeza bantwababo emazweni, abanye be extender izindlu begada indizamtshina besiya emihlanganweni emagumbini omane omhlaba.

Yikhoke ungathanda ukubona kakhulu lapha kwezemali ebandleni lawe uzacina uxotshiwe. Khepha ke wena nanko phela kukhanya wahle wazixotsha wedwa jaha lakithi.

Bazakuxotsha ebandleni i am telling you.

thatha Mathimula he he he

Nxa ngisithi izithombe ngitsho yona-le imifanekiso esebhayibhilini.

Ibhayibhili lamasabatha kunye lamaphamflet akhona agcwele izithombe/imifanekiso yabantu abamhlophe. Lo Ellen G White kwakuthiwa simkhonze thina njengoMprofethi omkhulu. Kwakulikhiwa.

Kanti kungani kungela bantu abamnyama na kulelibhayibhili? Thina abantu abamnyama kanti sinjani? Amakhiwa yiwo wodwa angcwele na? Ngicela lingitshele.

Imali vele ibe idliwa khona eSabatheni laphana enye isiya emelikha. Lokho yinto eyaziwayo leyo.

Okwama camp meeting lokho kwakuyikudinga indlela zokukhombisana nje, njalo izisu ezaphuma kulawo ma camp meeting zinengi. Amamnengi amaSabtha engiwaziyo afa nge AIDS yikho nje akumangalisi. Njalo labo abezenza abantu abalenkolo enkulu, abakholwayo kuyeJesu-lo ukumithisa abakwenza abantwana babantu eSabatheni laphana kuyazakala e.g. oTshuma e Tshabalala laphana.

Tee noma ungasangiphanga lawo ma verse ku Jeremiah lo Isaiah akusenani, sengizazama ukuzidingela

Anyway, mina i'm not an expert as such on iSabatha, but imuli yakwethu has been in that church for a long time...

My own views are that iSDA is a Good, Genuine church - it's not perfect, but then again i'm yet to come across a perfect church/congregation:

1.About izithombe eSabatheni...HATSHI bo!Kuyabe sekuyiRoma leyo

2.IBhayibhili engilazi lisetshenziswa kakhulu eSabatheni yi King James, njalo lisetshenziswa langamanye amabandla amanengi i'm sure, besides iSDA

3.Those who can get the following TV channels can watch and judge for themselves concerning iSDA church and its Teachings and Basic Beliefs: i)Hope tv ii)3ABN

Mina i've always found iSDA to be an uncomplicated church, similar to engazalelwa kuyo iBrethren-in-Christ Church, kutshiyana ilanga lokukhonza kuphela.

ISabatha is very idealistic, njalo it demands true commitment, yikho abanengi iyasehlula, including even labafundisi, but mina i believe that God is the one who sees in secret, obona ukuthi who is genuinely practising what is preached...nguye ozakuthi Judge in the end, thina our eyes should be focused on Christ only ukuze singakhangeli ukuthi omunye umzalwane (kumbe even uMfundisi sibili!!)yena wenzani, ngoba singakhubeka lathi uma singananzeleli.

This is my '2 cents' nje kuphela, hope it helps someone

mmhh asazi shame hayi ke labo bantu balemfundiso embi makheyi ngoba nanko labo ELLEN G WHITE uyabazi kutsho isabatha leyi yelower gwelo sisenza okwayo shame kumele bona banini bayo bexwayisise kuhle ngalolo daba ngoba hayi mina ngangingena khonaphana ephelandaba lemakhandeni angizange ngizwe kuthiwa ngikhonze isithombe ngitsho lelanga elilodwa gaya kulihlazo ma bekwenza lokho.

Mina I feel hurt when I see a lot of hypocracy when people deny things that are so clear and obvious. Lami ngakhonza khonaphana e Phelandaba laseMakhandeni, ngiyakwazi konke okwakusenzakala ebandleni.

Owayesifundisa ukuhlabela kwakunguDyson ePhelandaba laphana. KwakulaboDudu umntakafundisi, u-deacon kunguMhlanga, oZwandasara, ngingaqamba amabizo manengi

Liyabona bakaMthwakzai ibandla ngabantu kasiwo mabhuku lemiduli. Abantu bacina bevika ngamabhuku lemiduli. I-church ngabantu, yilona bandla. Nxa ibandla elonayo litshengisa ukungaziphathi lokweba okunje mina kangiboni ukuthi inkolo yakhona ingaphi.

AmaSabathatha bathi bona yibo abantwana bakaNkulunkulu abazasidiswa nguNkulunkulu nxa esebuya ukuzothatha abantu bakhe. Bathi bona ibandla labo yilo elimumethe iqiniso kuphela. Batsho njalo ukuthi ibandla leRoma ngelikaSatan. Bayafundiswa ukubana kumele bendele njalo bathathe amaSabatha kuphela hatshi umuntu ongelankolo yabo. Kulokubandlululo ebandleni lamaSabatha.

IJames version yona leyo oyibalayo yabuya lamangisi. Kuhle ukubana wazi ukuba kanti lona ibhayibhili lavela ngaphi. UAlexander the Great esenqobe abantu abamnyama eGipite wacela ukubana ingwalo ezaziseGipite ziqoqwe zitolikelwe elwimini lwesiGreek. Yizo lezi ingwalo ezabumba ibhayibhili. Zatolikwa lezongwalo zafakwa ndawonye egwalweni olulodwa. Ibhayibhili ngesiGreek kutsho ukuthi ugwalo (a book). Abelungu sebebone ukubana ukuthi okulotshwe kulolugwalo kumumethe ilizwi elihle izizwe zoke zafisa ukubana zibe lalo lolugwalo. Kwaba-ke le King James version eye England, Dutch verison, German version, Americna version, etc.

I-Testament elitsha latolikwa ngamaNgisi. AmaNgisi kazange afake amabizo abantu abamnyama ayevele ekhona encwadini ezibumba itestamenti elitsha, bafaka amabizo esingisi o John, oMathew, oLuke, oJames, etc. Isizatho bathi ababizo esintu anzima ukubiza. Kodwa siyazi ukubana lokhu bakwenza besenzela ukubana bathi bona yibo abaloba ibhayibhili, kube kanti lalotshwa ngabantu abamnyama

I-Euorpe yonke iyalazi leiqiniso kodwa into edanisayo yile. There are those who have been taught to defend the legendary lying lore. It’s a pity.

Makheyi

Okubi okwenziwa nguDudu lo Dyson yikuyini bcoz as far as I know they were in love and had to part when u-pastor JJ Mhlanga refused ukuthi umntanakhe uDUdu athathwe liShona lako Zinyemba. Ukumithiswa kuka Nokuthula ngu Pastor Zvandasara is not an Adventist concept but yikwehluleka kwabazalwane lamaphutha which are there all over.

The fact that abantu bayehluleka bonke is not a reason to defend the Church. Remember the church are the people.

If something is bad it’s bad, evil is evil and there’s no need to defend it rather to stamped it down. That’s why we are here fighting for justice because we don’t tolerate injustice caused by Mugabe. If you want people to follow your good teachings be an example, it’s just as easy as all that.

As for Dyson and Dudu I can’t say what they are doing now. I know Dyson very well and he was a good person and spoke Ndebele well like he was born a Ndebele. As for Dudu it’s another story. The fact that her father refused them to mary one another there’s no reason she would behave the way she does because that brings a wrong message about the Church. I’ve been inspired a lot by Dyson’s personality, but I but I can say Dudu’s leaves a lot to be desired.

As you see AmaSabatha ayabandlulula and this is what I’m writing about. Umfundisi u JJ Mhlanga refused ukuthi umntanakhe uDudu athathwe liShona lako Zinyemba. Kuyini khonoko? Kayisiko ukubandlulula na?

Mina I hate this hyprocracy that thina sonke singabantwana bakaNkulunkulu kube kanti thina AmaSabatha kasivumi ukubana odadewethu bathathwe ngabetshabi. Why can’t we come clean? UmntakaNukulunkulu ngubani? LiNdebele? This concept of your faith is very disturbing. Amakhiwa lawo ayengafuni ukubana abantu abamnyama bathathe amakhiwa kuze kuba namhla, njalo yiwo abumba lelo bandla lamaSabatha. Ivangeli labo eleSabatheni likwalisa lokho ngedlela bani nxa singabantwana bakaNukulunkulu sonke?