What is your religion Zwangendaba?

Bafowethu.

NGISELE LE AVERAGE OF 30 YEARS BEFORE I DIE. I have all the time to listen and LEARN FROM THOSE WHO SAY THEY BRING THE TRUTH. BUT IT MUST BE THE TRUTH. ELILOBUFAKAZI.

Ngincindezele:
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Having laid that foundation, I'd like to point out that amaNdebele amanengi believe ukuthi amadlozi is part of our culture. I would like to differ and say amadlozi is a faith for not just amaNdebele, but many other cultures. I do not subscribe to faith emadlozini.
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Mhlawumbe ISINTU (isinguni) sethu sehlukene. Choosing to "DIFFER" does not errode the context of the SINTU LANGUAGE and CULTURE, ITS MEANING and ORIGINAL PRESENTATION. It is unfortunate that what you attempt to do here is rewrite ISINTU (isinguni as you want).

a. Religion is a PART OF CULTURE. UMDABUKA ulusendo lweSIZWE. Yikho ukuthethela amaDlozi ngokoSENDO.
b. Amadlozi is NOT a faith dadewethu. You are not to be converted to AMADLOZI akwenu ngoba uzalwa kiwo. There is no need for you to be BORN AGAIN in you own UMNDENI. Yisintu (isinguni) lesi.
c. "I do not subscribe to faith emadlozini." IF YOU CARE TO RESEARCH, you will learn what "GOD means. Lidlozi ANCESTORAL SPIRIT WHO USED TO BE WORSHIPED IN MOUNT CAUCASUS. I do not know if you said this sentence out of ignorance.

Li Zwangendaba.

Bafowethu.

ABADALA BATHI BEFIKELWA YISI KIRISETU BAHLE BASOLA NGOBA KUTHIWA INKONZO LOMTHETHELO KUMELE UBE LEBIZO. LOKHU YIKHO OKUXABANISA ABANTU NGOBA SELIMQATHELANA oNKULU-NKULU LISITHI KALANDELWE NGO JESU KUMBE NGO MOHAMED.

Mina dadewethu ngiyakhonza oNKULU-NKULU ngokuTHETHELA emadlozini akwethu. The Great Spirit oNKULU-NKULU was not Stupid to have created me as I am. Only for him to REALISE 2000 years ago that I belonged to SATAN and therefore I must be BORN AGAIN??? LITSHO UKUTHI oNKULU-NKULU kala foresight wayengakwazi konke lokhu asekuqondiselwa yizidalwa zakhe??? That is an INSULT to MY people, my Religion, And oNKULU-NKULU.

I have no NAMED Religion that I subscribe to, I have no Faith because I do not need anyone to sell oNkulu-Nkulu to me , I HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE GREAT SPIRIT o NKULU-NKULU through AMADLOZI OSENDO LWAKWETU. A relationship which is not of my CHOICE but of the WILL of the GREAT SPIRIT oNKULU-NKULU.

Li Zwangendaba.

Engikwalayo Zwangendaba yikuthi ngilale ngikhonza amadimoni from the pit of hell, ngichithela utshwala lenyama phansi ( to the dead) in the belief that I am pleasing some ancestors that I know very little about. I would rather worship an 'Ancestor' who has a proven record ukuthi ungubani, uvelangaphi njalo sowenzani emhlabeni.
What have your ancestors ever done for you? What advice do they give you? Were they successful people when they were alive? Why can they not teach you to be successful today? Do they identify with you and your needs today? Ukukhonza amadlozi yikukhonza uSathane ngokwakhe and I will not do it. It does not make me any less of a Nguni.IN ACTAUL FACT, I AM A BETTER NGUNI FOR IT.

Give me an example of someone okhonza amadlozi olokuthula empilweni yakhe.

Awukaze ubone abeLungu bethethela nge champagne ma be dlale kuhle imdlalo yama sports. Watch formula One, FA Cup final, Premiership league, opening ceremonies of anything, amadlozi are universal, they are worshiped by all cultures/people who shun the Living God.

Bafowethu.

Kuyabongeka. Ngincindezele.
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Pho-ke nxa usithi simthandazele umfoka Mhlanga utsho kuwuphi uThixo, kwabaphansi kumbe ko-phezulu. Uba usitsho kwabaphansi akungisize kancane lapha: Is it possible ukuthi abakoNgwenya, abakoBanda, etc bathi nxa bethetha lamadlozi akwabo babeke abangesibomndeni wakwabo kumbe abakwabo kaCont yibo kuphela abalamandla okumbeka ebadaleningokosiko langokosendo lwakoMhlanga.
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a. Pho-ke nxa usithi simthandazele: UMTHANDAZO WEHLUKENE LOMTHETHELO. USUKE UKUHLANGANISE. ABANGAKIBO KA CONT KABATHETHELE BAMCELELE Ko NKULU-NKULU ukuthi AMLONDOLOZE ENGOZINI LE AKIYO. UMBHALO WESINTU UTHI WONA NXA ABANTU BEHLANGANISE IZINHLIZIYO ZABO, ENTWENI EYODWA EBAHLUPHAYO, AKUDINGI KUTHI BAPHUMISELE AMAZWI, LOWO NGU MTHANDAZO OZIMELA oNKULU-NKULU. ANGAZI KUMBE UYANGIZWA NXA NGITHI OZIMELA. YISINTU SAMANDULO LESO. YIKHO BENGICELA ISIZWE SAKITHI UKUTHI SIYIHLANGANISENI IMICABANGO YETHU, KUNGABI NGITSHO LOYEDWA ODUNGAYO UKWENTELA UKUTHI IMITHANDAZO YETHU, KANYE LEMITHETHELO YAKOMHLANGA LEMITHANDAZO YAMADLOZI AKWABO IYEFIKA koNKULU-NKULU. YISO ISINTU ENGASIFUNDISWAYO MINA.

b. simthandazele umfoka Mhlanga utsho kuwuphi uThixo, kwabaphansi kumbe ko-phezulu: ISITHIXO NGESINTU YIBUNGCWELE. IZITHIXO ZINENGI SIBILI NJENGOBA USITSHO. KULEZIPHANSI ENGIZAZIYO MINA, KUBE LEZINYE ENGINGEKE NGAQAMBA AMANGA NGITHI ZISEZULWINI KUMBE NGAPHI NGOBA ANGIKWAZI. ISINTU SAMANDULO SIYAKUBEKA EGCEKENI UKUTHI ABANTU SEBEHLANGANISA INKULUMO LAPHA NGOBA SATHONYELWA ENKULUMENI YIMITSHO YOKUZA. ANGAZI NJALO KUMBE UYANGITHOLA NXA NGISITHI UKUTHONYELWA. O NKULU-NKULU AKASISO SITHIXO. ABANTU SEBEPHONGU KUHLANGANISA INKULUMO. IZITHIXO ZINGAPHANSI KAKHULU KO NKULU-NKULU. NGALOKHO NGITHI U CONT KATHANDAZELWE YISIZWE SIKAMTHWAKAZI, KUHLANGENE LEMITHETHELO YAKWABO, KANYE LEMITHANDAZO YAMADLOZI AKWABO, KUZAKUYAFIKA koNKULU-NKULU.

NGIGCIZELELE NGITHI ASINGAPHAMBANISI SITHI oNKULU-NKULU USEZULWINI NGOBA ASIKWAZI LOKHO, SIYAFANISELA NJE. O NKULU-NKULU UYISIMA KADE, NGINGAZI NJALO UKUTHI KADE KUYEZWAKALA NA? ISINTU SAMANDULO.

c. Is it possible ukuthi abakoNgwenya, abakoBanda, etc bathi nxa bethetha lamadlozi akwabo babeke abangesibomndeni wakwabo: YIKHO ENGIHLALA NGIKUTSHO ISIKHATHI SONKE. I WEBSTERS DICTIONARY ESE LIBRARY YE BROOKLYN IN NEW YORK IKUBEKA KAHLE UKUTHI "GOD" KUTSHONI, LOKUTHI KWAVELA NGAPHI. LIDLOZI LEZIZWE ZAMA CAUCASIAN. YIKHO NXA LINA SELIVUMA UKUTHI IDLOZI LEZINYE IZIZWE SELINGALITHETHELELA, AAHHHHG MINA ANGILANKANI. U "GOD" LOWO OKUTHIWA USEZULWINI, KULETHWA YIZIZUKULWANE ZAKHE. ZIYALAZI IDLOZI LAZO UKUTHI LISEZULWINI. PHOKE THINA SINGALITHETHELELA NGAZIPHI. SESINGATHI NGOKWEHLULWA BESESIVUMA UKUTHI IDLOZI LESINYE ISIZWE SELINGO NKULU-NKULU. LIHLAZO LELO. U "GOD" WEHLUKENE KAKHULU LO NKULU-NKULU. YIKHO UBONA ABANTU SEBEZAMA UKUMTHENGISA NGOBA UMLAYEZELO WAKUQALA YIWO OWAHLE WONA IZINTO ZONKE.

NGANI BABUYA BATHI KITHI, "SIZE KWELAKINI, SIYAZIHLONIPHA INDLELA ELIKHONZA NGAZO ONKULU-NKULU, NJENGOBA LATHI SIMKHONZA NGO JESU." HATSHI LOKHU ABATHI OKWENU KUNGAMANGA, LATHI SITHATHELE NGEJUBANE. YIKUTHUKA oNKULU-NKULU UKUTHI BENGAKABUYI BONA THINA WE WERE A MISTAKENLY CREATED PEOPLE. NOW IT NEEDS A HUMAN CREATURE TO CORRECT THE ERROR OF o NKULU-NKULU. BONA OKWABO AKULA BUFAKAZI UKUTHI IDLOZI LABO SELINGO NKULU-NKULU.

UMBUZO ONGAZAMA UKUNGIPHENDULA WONA GAS YILO: Ngendlela elibeka ngayo isizatho sobuntu buka Jesu yikuthi wayezosiza abantu. Litsho ukuthi u "GOD" loyo kala FORESIGHT na??? AKAKWAZI AKUDALAYO UKUTHI KUZAKWENZANI, HE IS NOT PROACTIVE, HE ALWAYS REACTS TO HIS ERRORS. SOME OF THOSE ERRORS ARE EVEN CORRECTED FOR HIM BY HIS OWN CREATIONS. IF THAT IS WHAT "GOD" IS, FINE ANGILANKINGA LAKHO LOKHO. KODWA ONKULU-NKULU AKANJALO. AMADLOZI THINA YIWO ESIWAZI EPHAMBANISA NGOBA LAWO YIZIDALWA.

Akasuye oNKULU-NKULU loyo. Liyafisa nje ukuthi ngani kunjalo.

Li Zwangendaba.

Amatshono Zwangendaba

Sengiyihluzile eyakho. Angilaqiniso ukuthi ngikuthola kahle yi. Ngokunjalo uba ngiphicekile uzangiqondisa, kanti lami ngizazama ukubalula lapho engenelisa khona.
Confirm: Are you saying kulo ONKULUNKULU, omkhulu kulamadlozi.
AbakMhlanga bafanele babeke uCont emadlozini ngomthethelo. Abanye abesizwe sikamthwakazi kuhle bambeke ku ONKULUNKULU ngomthandazo wokuthula.
Both efforts will land ku-"ONKULUNKULU" yena ong SIMAKADE.
Is this what you are saying? If so siza kulokhu: Ungaphi umahluko phakathi kwedlozi lo ONKULUNKULU. I-portifolio yedlozi iqala ngaphi iphelele ngaphi, eka-"ONKULUNKULU" yona ithathela ngaphi, Chaza imingcele yabo.
Likuphi idlozi njengamanje kanti yena u-"ONKULUNKULU" ungaphi?
Veza umahluko phakathi ko"mthethelo" lo"mthandazo"?
Nginanzelela ukuthi nxa ukhuluma ngoNkulunkulu uqala ngonkamisa u-o, does it have any significance kumbe yikukiliza nje?

You made reference to "umbhalo wesintu" yiwuphi lowo njalo utholakala ngaphi?

Nxa usithi ukuthonyelwa" ungeqile. Angikaze ngihlangane lalo leli gama, ngicela ungibalulele ukuthi kunga kutshoni lokhu?

Ngiye emibuzweni yakho:
What foresight are you talking about? Yikuphi obekumele uNkulunkulu akubone ngaphambilini angazange akubone? I'm sure you have raised this question somewhere but I never bothered to respond but it looks like its a burning issue. So ngichazele kakahle enxenye ngingakusiza.

Finally point of correction, we were not mistakenly created NO I don't subscribe to that.

Bafowethu.

YINDE INDE yikho yalahleka.

Uzaxola Gasolomhle, mfowethu incokolo lami beliphansi. Ngizaqala ngokuthi sivumelane ukuthi ULIMI Lwesintu Soluguquke kakhulu solusebenzisa eminye imitsho eyokuza. Ngalokho, ngizathi nxa ngihamba lengcazelo ngikubonise ukuthi leli BALA/GAMA/MUTSHO esengiwusebenzisa lapha emveni ububizwa ngandlela bani.

1. Ubaba u Doc wake wangibuza NgamaDlozi, ngachasisa khonapha eNkundleni. Ungangivumela ngizalidinga ikhasi lelo. Ngingaliswela, ngizachasisa njalo.

2. Ukuthonyela yikwengezelela, ukugcwalisa, ukuguqula, njalonjalo. ISINTU sathonyelwa zindimi zokuza ngoba asemanengi amabala esesiwasebenzisa angahambelani QHO lalokho esiyabe sifuna ukukutsho. Kodwa siwasebenzise ngoba ABEKWA YILABO ABEZA LAWO AS A WAY FOR THEM TO DEFINE WHAT THEY PERCEIVE ABOUT US. Ngaleyo ndlela lawo mabala lemitsho aqala engezelela imitsho olimini lwethu, acina eluguqula ulimi altogether.

3. O NKULU-NKULU: Ngesintu sithi "O" ngoba kasilabizo esingalipha Osimakade. Angikilizi. Yisintu samandulo. Siyamlinganisa, asimbizi. Yikho siqala ngokuthi "O".

4. O NKULU-NKULU nguye umdali wazo zonke izinto ngokufundiswa KOMDABUKA wesintu. Idlozi yisithixo nje. O NKULU-NKULU asikwazi thina esintwini ukuthi uyazihlupha ngokuthi COMPETE WITH SOMEONE ELSE for people's SOULS. LINA ELAKULETHELWA NGABELUMBI LISITSHELA UKUTHI KULO GOD LO SATAN WHO ARE IN DIRE COMPETITION FOR PEOPLE. Asikwazi thina esintwini lokho.

5. ISANGOMA: Ngenxa yokuthi sehlulwa, IMIBHALO YESINTU ibibizwa "IZINTO ZIKA SATANA". Bebebindekile abelumbi kanye labakithi abangayaziyo lendaba bediliza betshisa izinto zesintu. THIS WAS ALL IN AN EFFORT TO ERASE OUR HISTORY AND PAST FROM THE FACE OF THIS EARTH. Angesabi kukubeka lapha ngoba imvumo ngayiphiwa yi ZANGOMA. Ukhona UMBHALO WESINTU OWAFIHLWAYO YIZANGOMA. Yimitsho esetshenziswa esintwini. Ngigcizelele lapha ngithi UMBHALO wesintu ubungafani lalo owabelumbi. Lo owabelumbi ulula uyafundeka. YINTO ENHLE. Owesintu bekusiba nGAMACHATHA loba IMIZILA loba IMIFANISELA. Besekukhethwa abantu abazafundiswa ukutolika elinye lelinye laleyo mibhalo. IZANGOMA all along bezisesaba ukuphumisela egcekeni leyo mfihlo ngoba zilindele izitha ukudiliza. Kodwa sekuxoxwe kanengi ngale NDABA. IZIKO lokucina engahamba kilo ESWAZINI, sacela ukuthi imibhalo le itolikwe nge "ALPHABET" yesilumbi. ASIKAYIPHIWA leyo mvumo. Basayihluza ABANIKAZI ukwenzela ukuthi nxa sekubekwa ugwalo, kungabi lokuKILIZA embhalweni. I have volunteered my services to that, ngoba eminye imibuzo engiyibuza lapha uNkundleni yimibuzo EBHALIWEYO EMIBHALWENI YESINTU elokhu ingakaphendulwa yilabo abeza loJESU.

6. FORESIGHT: Senike ngabuza phambilini. U "GOD" lowo lithi wadala uSATANA. Wayengakwazi na ukuthi lento ayidalayo izabuye imehlule??? Nxa u "GOD" elamandla kulo "SATANA", yini engahle amdilize. Kanti USENGANIKEZA THINA ESINGELAMANDLA UKUTHI SILWISANE LO "SATANA" YENA ESAZI UKUTHI KASILAWO LAWO MANDLA??? It does not SOUND logical to IZANGOMA ukuthi u "GOD" is busy making a Fire with BRIMESTONE to burn those who fail to defeat the POWER of the SATANA when he himself has failed to DEFEAT that SATANA. Ziyala izangoma. Zithi ANYTHING THAT WAS CREATED BY ONKULU-NKULU can be DESTROYED by oNKULU-NKULU. Yikho lokhu u"GOD" lidlozi nje elilwisana lamanye amaDLOZI (SATANA) livikela izizwe zalo zabe lumbi. Akusuye oNKULU-NKULU.

7. Finally point of correction, we were not mistakenly created NO I don't subscribe to that. NXA SINGASIYO MISTAKE, ANGIBONI UKUTHI UMUNTU WENYAMA ANGABUYA AZONGITSHELA UKUTHI INDLELA ZAMI ENGIZILANDELAYO "ARE FALSE" as one contributor to this forum said.
a. If my ways are false, then there was no FORESIGHT, ngoba wanginikeza lezo ndlela, usejika futhi eseletha uJESU.
b. If they are not False it goes to prove that the MESSAGE you are broadcasting is FALSE, DEFECTIVE and DANGEROUS.

MAKHOSI AKWA NGWANA NGITHANDAZELENI.

Li Zwangendaba.

Bafowethu.

NGIYTHOLILE I PAGE OKUMELE UYIVULE. YANA KU AMASIKO AKITHI, UBUSUSIYA KU AMANDEBELE. UYIFUNDE YONKE. TAKE YOUR TIME. SIXOXISANE LAPHA BABA.

Li Zwangendaba.

Ngiyakuzwa Zwangendaba,
Ngifikelwe yile imibuzo nxa bengifunda izilobo zakho:
Uthi wena nxa idlozi lingabuyiswanga liyaphela amandla licine libhujiswe ngamathongo ezinye izizwe, kungani lingelawo amadla okuzivikila, kanti njalo kungani uNkulunkulu engangeneli alisize? Also in other words idlozi is dependant on humans for survival so what significant contribution does it have to deserve worship.
Nxa kuyikuthi idlozi elingabuyiswanga licina libhubhile kungani kulabantu abalenhlupho which are said to be due to amadlozi angabuyiswanga and i-mistake yakhona you can be told ukuthi yenziwa ngokhokho babokhokho abafa kudala?
Uthi wena nxa amdlozi engadli ayabhubha: It sounds strange gaya, I thought they only need to be pleased not fed, and if not pleased ayahlamuka umuntu not ukuthi ayabhubha.

Isimnandi inxoxo Zwangendaba and I would want it to be a productive discussion. One way which may cause it to degenerate into a foolish argument are such phrases and attitudes you have quoted eyokuthi-Some one says your ways are false: Such have an effect of irritating the recipient causing them to retaliate, from there sekujikijelwana ngamazwi which lead to High sounding nothings. Kodwa ke for us to benefit never mind such njalo ungabasoli, you'll agree with me ukuthi when it comes to these religious issues some pple do not know why they believe in what they believe but they have steriotyped minds which will not allow them to evaluate matters objectively but are keen to defend what they don't understand. When their faith is questioned they resort to-ukuphophotha.
So Zwangendaba for us to have tenacity of purpose ngicela siqale sivumelane lapha ukuthi silenjongo bani ngale idiscussion so that we will know how to move njalo singa-dirveteki as we discuss:
My aim is to learn from you & others and to share what I believe in. I do not want to convert you(or any one) nor prove how wrong you are or superior my beliefs are. I hope its the same with everyone else:
In that light I suggest ukuthi ke sihluze isisusa sakho konke, sikhangele ubu-reasonably lobu-non sense bakho konke besesibona okusilungeleyo.
Okokuqala Zwangendaba do we agree ukuthi into esikhuluma ngazo lapha zombili are beliefs: Awukaze ulibone idlozi lo-Onkulunkulu in as much a way as no one has seen uNkulunkulu lo moya ongcwele?
So iyini ibasis yenkolo? May be its about convictions and what people have gone thru in their individual lives.

Concerning i-foresight, usungicacele: Kunje Zwangendaba- God indeed created Lucifer and was the biggest of all angels. God however would not destroy him because all other creatures would have worshipped him out of fear. But God wants his creatures to worship him out of love and recgnition of his mercy. He allowed konke okwenzakalyo so that every creature will acknowledge ukuthi he is a loving and long suffering God. Eventually when Satan is destroyed all will acknowledge ukuthi he deserves it.
God does not really give us away to fight Satan but to make a choice between him and Satan.

Bakwethu, akenifunde lokhu. Ngikwethule ku Bulawayo1872. Akukho engizakutsho mina mselufu ngoba kangina lwazi ngendaba zokholo kumbe amadlozi, kodwa ngilalele.

Quote:

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By and large, the Ndebele believed in a creator, uNkulunkulu thought of as the first human being. Nkulunkulu and his wife, Mvelengani are said to have emerged out of a marshy place where they found cattle and grain already awaiting them in abundance. They lived together and had children to whom they passed on their culture and tradition, when they were old, they returned to the ground where they became snakes.

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1. Ndebele Religion

2. Mzilikazi, the Ndebele & Christianity

Ibambeni, lingay'yeki. Sebenza!!

Bafowethu.

Ngizaqala ngokuthi UNGIXOLELE Gaselomhle ngoba okunje angikwekeli kusedlula.

Hatshibo,Ngincindezele:
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Engikwalayo Zwangendaba yikuthi ngilale ngikhonza amadimoni from the pit of hell, ngichithela utshwala lenyama phansi ( to the dead) in the belief that I am pleasing some ancestors that I know very little about. I would rather worship an 'Ancestor' who has a proven record ukuthi ungubani, uvelangaphi njalo sowenzani emhlabeni.
What have your ancestors ever done for you? What advice do they give you? Were they successful people when they were alive? Why can they not teach you to be successful today? Do they identify with you and your needs today? Ukukhonza amadlozi yikukhonza uSathane ngokwakhe and I will not do it. It does not make me any less of a Nguni.IN ACTAUL FACT, I AM A BETTER NGUNI FOR IT.

Give me an example of someone okhonza amadlozi olokuthula empilweni yakhe.
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Whilst you claim thatyou SHALL NOT TELL lies, you have proven not to follow your own teachings. U "GOD" lo othi you would rather worship yena ngoba uyamazi, KAWUMAZI. You only learnt about him, from Colonialism to Independence.

You say awusoze uzihluphe ngokuchitha utshwala, kanti leli GAZI ELILINATHAYO emasontweni enu lisithi ngelika JESU asibo bu VAMPIRE nje bonobo??? Yikulandela IMIKHUBO elingeke layichasisa ukuthi yavela njani. "EAT THIS IS MY FLESH. DRINK THIS IS MY BLOOD" YIMIKHUBO leyo ende usungenile ebuthakathini obunzima ngoba nxa umuntu engakwenzela amasalamusi UDLE INYAMA YAKHE WENA USITHI YISINKWA, UBUYE UNATHE IGAZI LAKHE USITHI YI "WINE", (utshwala lobo othi wena abungcwele), usungenile ebuthakathini obesabekayo.

Uxolo njalo Gaselomhle, Ngizakuya bala indaba yakho ngikuphendule ngokufundiswa kwami kodwa uzaxola ngoba angikwazi ukuthi turn the other chick. Yikho okwenza sathathelwa ilizwe.

Hatshibo: Angikamboni okhonzayo othi ulokuthula mina njengoba Hatshibo lawe inhliziyo yakho ibonisa ukukhahlameka phakathi. Nxa kuyikho ukusindiswa lokho, ngizazihlalela lamadlozi akwethu, NGAWOBUNGUNI LOBUKALANGA njalo.

Li Zwangendaba.

Zwana Hatshibo lani lonke abakholwa isiKrestu:
It is recorded in scripture ukuthi the word of God is not only for rebuking but also includes teaching, correcting, councelling etc. So as we interract with pple we shud not always be out to rebuke their beliefs as it yields nothing, instead let us "reason together", in the process we will learn more (that's growth & development towards spiritual maturity), share our faith & it's benefits (that's teaching & correcting)
I believe the only pple who deserve rebuke and stern reactions are HYPOCRITES, Abazenzisi.
One weakness engibona sengathi ikumaKrestu amanengi it's failure to acknowledge where we do not know or are not sure. There is no harm in telling a person ukuthi angilampendulo ngombuzo wakho and from there ubususiya risetsha with an open mind, believe me you will learn many new things. If you have answers to questions raised zibeke kahle ukuze the intended beneficiary azwisise angaze abona sengathi uyameyisa kumbe you see a psycho in him. That is why Christ was always found among sinners and the later were more comfortable in his company than that of rabbis, abafarisi etc
By the way no one person can say I fully comprehend God's word and God's ways, Noone has monopoly of knowledge.
So lets reason with one another regardless of our beliefs and at the end of the day each person will make their own choice. And regardless of the differences in choices we can still be friends and civil to one another. By the way sonke simunye ngokuba ngaba ko Mthwakazi and as we interact we are trying to strengthen the bond.

Asilimukeni njalo ezinye i-teachings which are said from the pulpit as they may not be true/accurate, eg when we say abantu abakhonza amadlozi kabala-peace. If you are to look at the real life objectively the factors which disturb i-peace yo muntu zehlela wonke umuntu kungakhathalekile ukuthi ukholwani, for instance ungaya emangcwabeni akhona amagcwaba amaKrestu, abamadlozi, lamakharathi konke, same applies ezibhedlela, same applies kubayanga lezinothi, same applies kuzilima lezigoga, inyumba, ukufeyila esikolo. Kuphela umKrestu nxa elodubo lwakhe uthi inkosi ikubone kufanele, omunye ngale esithi amadlozi angihlanekele, while the other may dismiss it as fate. But ultimately as long as you live at one point or another your peace will be disturbed.

Bafowethu.

Gasolomhle, YOU INSPIRE ME. THANX. Ngizazama ukuthobisa ulimi lwami, njalo ngiyaxolisa kuZulu jikelele. I sometimes get very angry. Asixoxeni ngilazise lapho izangoma ezisola khona ukwenzela ukuthi sinanzelele ukuthi LATHI ABENSUNDU BESIVELE SIMAZI ONKULU-NKULU. ASIVUMELANI NJE LALOKHU OKOKUTHI SEKUMELE SIMKHONZE NGEDLOZI LEZINYE IZIZWE KUTHIWE AWETHU AMADLOZI EASENGAMADIMONI.

Ibala elithi DIMONI yikuTHONYELWA zindimi zezinye izizwe. Asilayo ingcazelo egcweleyo ngesintu ukuthi DIMONI kutshoni. Yikho lapho izangoma ezithanda izinto zibekwe sobala.

Nxa IDLOZI kungumoya wabokhokho bakho ungathi SEBENGAMADIMONI uqobo??????????

Safa.

Li Zwangendaba.

I don't want to call inkolo yakho "amadimoni", somehow it is an offensive and belittling term. Instead I respect you for what you are for I know for certain that for everyone who has studied history well there is every logic to stick to the old time traditional religion.
What l want to address now is what you raised concerning ukukhonza uNkulunkulu thru idlozi lezizweni:
Ngikuzwisisa kanje Zwangendaba, there is a difference between Christ and all other human beings (including our ancestors), that is why he is worthy to be worshipped. Christ was not an ordinary human being, his birth on earth was not the begginning of his existence but "incarnation of grace". Christ has always been there and was involved in the creation of the world. Because he has power to create life out of nothing he therefore becomes the "creator" hence the creatures owe him allegiance and worship. Unlike amadlozi whose power has limitations like ours. From a Biblical perspective, I wud view them as equivalent to angels, and Biblically worshipping an angel is idolatry.
In short Christ is not an equivalent of amadlozi, you'll even notice ukuthi there is only one Christ who will remain one for all ages whereas amadlozi omndeni munye manengi and they keep multiplying as generations multiply.

DEUTERONOMY 18:9-12(King James Version)
9. When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an echanter, or a witch,
11.Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12.For all that do these things are an abomination unto the lord:and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Bafowethu.

Ngincindezele:
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Ngikuzwisisa kanje Zwangendaba, there is a difference between Christ and all other human beings (including our ancestors), that is why he is worthy to be worshipped. Christ was not an ordinary human being, his birth on earth was not the begginning of his existence but "incarnation of grace".
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If he was a Human Being, no matter how extra ordinary, when he dies, uba lidlozi. Those same amadlozi manengi njengawethu, ngoba you are made to worship Jesus, Moses, elijah, you know them all.

Thina ngesintu mfowethu asikwazi ukuthi AMADLOZI ayakhonzwa. Sikhonza oNkulu-Nkulu. Amadlozi sithethela kiwo sikhonza umdali ngawo. Isintu sesathonyelwa yikho laba abangaziyo bagcizelela ukuthi sikhonza amadlozi, akusilo qinisa lelo.

Nxa usumbeke ngaleyo ndlela u Jesu, ngibuze, uyalingana loNkulu-Nkulu na??? Nxa kunguye owadala lomhlaba leminye njalo, oNkulu-Nkulu wayengaphi???

Asikhulumeni iqiniso sithi lokhu yikho OKUYIKHO kumbe sivume ukuthi SIQHUBELA PHAMBILI INTO ESAYIFUNDISWAYO kodwa esingela bufakazi layo.

Then and then can one fulfill one of their COMMANDMENTS which goes, "thou shalt not lie"

Li Zwangendaba.

Eyami inkolo does not worship Elijah, Moses and all other persons. Christ is the way the truth and life, He says "no man cometh to the Father but thru Me" Jesus has always been there when he was born it was incarnation of grace and he did not remain in the grave but resurrected and now is in heaven.

Kanti ngikengibuze Gasela,do you worship Jesus or you worship God through Jesus Christ?

Mnini mfo ngike ngincedise uGasela lapho,yes we worship God through Jesus Christ but remember God is three"trinity",God the father, the son and the Holy spirit,so the three are one,therefore we do worship Jesus too.

Mfowethu Mahlaba,can you please avoid giving an equivocal answer,phumela obala njengomtshayeli wetharakita,
'Do you worship Jesus or you worship God through Jesus Christ?'

Kumi kanje Mninimuzi, Kulobuthathu be zulu comprising of the Father, the Son & the Holy Spirit. The three are one and we worship them all. B4 the fall of man there was harmony btwn the three and humans. But when Adam & Eve sinned the harmony was disrupted. Having sinned the destiny of humanity was eternal death. For the gap btwn humanity and God to be bridged and to provide an option for redemption from eternal death there was need for some one sinless and with creative power to die in stead (place)of humans. Jesus did that. In so doing he became the "bridge" between ubuthathu bezulu lo luntu. In other words an option has been made possible to escape eternal death, and humans have to make a choice. This is how Christ becomes the "WAY".

To avoid sounding "equivocal" nansi impendulo yombuzo wakho in precise terms:
We worship both God the Father and God the son.
We are saved thru Christ, this being thru that he died for us and opened a way for our salvation.

Bakwethu, ilndaba iyangithinta kakhulu. mina ngokwami ngikhonza uNkulunkulu ngokwakhe uqobo.Kodwa njengoba esitsho uGaselomhle, kulobuthathu Nkulunkulu okuthiwa yiGOdhead ngesilungu. ngakho uma ukhonza UNkulunkulu kumele ukhonze UBaba,INdodana LOMoya ONgqcwele.

Bafowethu.

Mina kalingiphenduli. Indaba yami kayizwakali na????

Ngincindezele:
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The three are one and we worship them all. B4 the fall of man there was harmony btwn the three and humans. But when Adam & Eve sinned the harmony was disrupted. Having sinned the destiny of humanity was eternal death.
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1. At what stage in life do we start to know that there are THREE GODS IN ONE??? Did the originator of the JEWISH teachings, MOSES ever mention those three when he explained the JEWISH MYTH about creation??? Asikhulumeni iqinisa bantu.

2. You say, "before the fall of man, there was harmony.....", What sin is it that made man fall and deserve to be punished in eternal BRIME??? Sure thina esintwini kuyasimangalisa ukuthi ungaze uthembise ukutshisa umntanakho FOR EVER ngoba ephambanise wadla ubumnandi obukade umthiye ngabo??? Akelitsho.

3. THINA ESINTWINI WE DO NOT BELIEVE UKUTHI THE CREATOR CAN WASTE HIS TIME PREPARING A FIRE OF BRIME TO ROAST ALL THESE MILLIONS UPON QUARTRILLIONS OF INNOCENT SOULS OVER AN ISSUE TO WHICH THEY HAVE NO POWER. makhosi.

4. Esihlala sikutshelwa ukuthi we were created with a choice asikwamkeli ngoba in this WORLD YOU HAVE A CARVED PATH, so you can not make a choice on you SPIRITUAL DESTINY. ALL YOU CAN DO IS TOW THE LINE THAT WAS DESIGNED FOR YOU BY YOUR CREATOR.

5. Lapho elingangiphenduli khona kulapha:
a. Ngesikhathi uJESU engakalethwa kwelakithi, kwakukubi na ukukhonza oNkulu-Nkulu ngamadlozi???
b. Nxa kwakukubi, wayengasidalanga na loyo Nkulu-Nkulu, wayengakwazi INGIDINGWANE zeminyaka le esekela SIMKHONZA NGENDLELA EZINGAQONDANGA???
c. Nxa kwakulungile, useboneni esesithi sekele leyo ndlela yona ilungile siqale manje ukumkhonza ngendlela ezintsha??? Kanti umdabuka ule FASHION na??? It changes with fashion??? This is acording to isintu, an INSULT to the creator ngoba simbona angani kala FORESIGHT.

MAKHOSI.

Li Zwangendaba.

Bafowethu.

NGISAYA TSHAYA UNGCAMA.

Li Zwangendaba.

see U when U come back. Pliz enjoy yourself!!!!

Quote:

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. Ngesikhathi uJESU engakalethwa kwelakithi, kwakukubi na ukukhonza oNkulu-Nkulu ngamadlozi???

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kwakungakubi kodwa abantu instead basuka bakhonza amadlozi wona ngokwawo bengasathi bakhona unkunkulu through amadlozi njalo nxa uthi uyakukhangelisisa bonke nje abawakhnzayo lawo madlozi basuke bachothze khakhulu labo abathi bakhonza unkulunkulu that means bona they are no longer reach out to God through amadlozi kodwa amadlozi seyiwo uNkulunkulu wabo.

Qoki bendlu yakwethu, long thamu no c.

we will argue on religious matters till cows come home.
as a matter of fact we are always talking about different deities.

God Himself acknowledges the existence of other gods, be they be in man's imagination or man's creative power like work of art(idols).

however those of the Christian faith always find themselves engaged on trivia.

comparing Christianity lamadlozi is very unfair, it's just like comparing isiKrestu lesiHindu, isiBhuda, Zorostrianism, Shintuism, Sintuism hk hk. thess are different religions with different sets of deities. the god of the other is not necessarily the god of the other.

when one says god bless America after successfully dropping 3 or 4 megatonne bombs on a residential area or one who shouts, "Allahu akbhar" detonating himself in the midst of school children and finally the one who gave no condition and said,"Thou shalt not kill". i see three different gods right there.

the argument that there is only one god we worship or reach him in different ways is as wet as water.
in Christianity there is a triumvirate, Jesus makes it clear that he and his Father are ONE and no man cometh to the Father except through him and he promised his followers that he was going to the Father and pray Him to send the Holy Spirit to be with them so that wherever they where he (Jesus) will be also.

note he says i and my father, not the father, implication being there are other fathers out there for example John the baptist sees abazenzisi and call them the viper's brood phecelezi inzalo yenyoka/satan.

predestination raises it's ugly head in such trivia, some, even christians, believe they do what they do because it was meant to be from the word go. this kind of doctrine must not find any home in a christian mind. God carved man's destiny in the ten commandments, but do we follow that? let every one answer the question by conducting an introspection and see if the knife scar i had after sleeping with my neighbour's wife was actually God's plan for me.

last item, God of Jesus does not lay snares for us so that in return he will fry us. the bible is clear He does not allow any temptation beyond our power to come our way and if we fall as we always do he put a plan for us, Jesus the ultimate price for our sins. the bible teaches that it is God's plan that none of us should perish but find salvation through Jesus. those who have attended court sessions will understand how God, His law and sin deal with each other. if one brakes the law he/she has sinned and must pay a price, God does not say that, thus natural thus fair and level. if i kill a man i must face the laws of that land. however God or the judiciary system on circular matters kicks in, in God's case he takes the blame unto himself and his Son suffers in my stead, in circular matters i'm tried and if found guilty, sentenced, my criminal history kicks in the circumstances and sometimes charges waived or a lesser sentence or hanged.

manini ngime la okwa lamuhla kayiqhube omunye.

Bafowethu.

Ngekhaya njalo.

Ngincindezele:
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kwakungakubi kodwa abantu instead basuka bakhonza amadlozi wona ngokwawo bengasathi bakhona unkunkulu through amadlozi njalo nxa uthi uyakukhangelisisa bonke nje abawakhnzayo lawo madlozi basuke bachothze khakhulu labo abathi bakhonza unkulunkulu that means bona they are no longer reach out to God through amadlozi kodwa amadlozi seyiwo uNkulunkulu wabo.
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Nansi indaba Mahlaba. Yikho engihlala ngizama ukuthi abantu bakuzwisise lokhu njalo ukubeke ngcono. Asibuyele emuva elizweni lamaKHIWA okwakuthiwa yi Caucasus. Laba bantu babeledlozi labo elalibizwa kuthiwa ngu GOTT, kumbe GUTTI, kumbe GUD, kumbe GOD. Bebesithi nxa bethandaza baqale ngokulimemeza igama leli bemi phambi kwentaba u Caucas, bethi "GOOOOOOTTI". Besenza khonokhu esikwenzayo eNJELELE nxa sisiyabonga, siyamemeza sithi, "MLIIIIIIIMO". Yikho wonke umuntu wakwabo obesiba leziga ubethi angafa aphiwe lelo bizo laye abe luGOD, Umlimo, nxa isintu sami usizwisisa. Ngoba UMLIMO loNkulu-Nkulu kwehlukene kakhulu. UMLIMO lidlozi, oNkulu-Nkulu nguye umdali wakho konke.

Nampo ke abantwana baka GOD, sebeqala ukuba lama GOD amanengi nxa okhulu babo besifa. Lokhu sikubona ezizweni zama Greek lama Roma, lezinye izizukulwane zama Caucasian. Bale God of Sun, Idlozi le langa. Babe leGod of Love njalo njalo. Balabo Zeus, Mars, Atlas, Jupiter baze banikeza onozungeleza esibhakabhakeni amabizo amadlozi akibo lamhlanje i Biology, medicine and science refere to their Gods for certain references. Ungabulawa yisithende bathi ule Archilles heel. They have immortalised their amadlozi. Then one day they decided to make ONE OF THEIR GODS SUPREME. Bathi wonke amanye amaGOD will be spelt with a small "g". Then they went further to declare that that God was now the creator.

When such things are not followed CHRONOLOGICALY, we will get confused. From ukukhonza oNkulu-Nkulu using amadlozi abo GOTT, they ended up worshipping wona lawo madlozi and elevating the same to the status of oNkulu-Nkulu.

Nanku futhi lamhlanje lithi u Jesu ngumtaka Nkulu-Nkulu. Libuye lithi selimkhonza okulinganayo loNkulu-Nkulu. From one and only God, abanye sesitshelwa ukuthi they are now THREE - TRINITY. Yini lithanda ukusanganisa ingqondo zabantu??? Abanye lithi mhlana uJesu ebuyayo uzokwakha umbuso wakhe. Thina ke ama Heathen we ask -
1. At his corronation, are you predicting that his father will have died for Jesus to be declared the king of this new kingdom??? Uyafa loyo GOD???
2. Some bibles state that Jesus shall lead an army against Satan and his saints??? This is just typical of the Greek and Roman MYTHICAL stories where one GOD would declare war on another.
3. After that war then what???

You can call a child after its father's name. But you can not call a father after his child"s name.

Isintu asikwamukeli ukukhonza idlozi. As much as ngingasoze ngilikhonze idlozi lakwethu, angisoze ngilikhonze elezizweni. Elakithi idlozi githethela kilo njalo ngikhonza ngalo. MAKHOSI.

Li Zwangendaba.