Hi all,

i'm a newcomer in this blogspot....but i have read a lot of disturbing stuff about what is happening in KwaZulu/Natal regarding the monarchy.

I am a Hlubi, born of a Hlubi princess (MaRhadebe). i would like to believe that people have been mis-informed about what is happening there...I will talk on the Hlubi tribe capacity....and please note that i an not a representative of the tribe, i'm just a concerned member of the tribe.

The claim of the amaHlubi nation relates to the recognition of the status of the amaHlubi
king, Ingonyama Muziwenkosi ka Tatazela ka Siyephu ka Langalibalele, whose official title
is King Langalibalele II.

The basis of our claim

Langalibalele I, who was king of the amaHlubi until his arrest and deposition in 1873, died
under house arrest as a prisoner in 1889. As a result, his successors were never returned
to the throne. The consequence of this is that his successor, Ingonyama Muziwenkosi,
Langalibalele II, is categorised by national and provincial government as a chief within the
KwaZulu/Natal province, making him and his people in Natal (and elsewhere), subjects of
another king. This is despite the fact that he has in excess of twenty (20) senior traditional
leaders all over South Africa who pay allegiance to him.
We would like to submit that:
1. the amaHlubi should be accorded the same status and recognised as a nation, in
the same way as amaXhosa, baTswana, amaNdebele etc,
2. iSilo Langalibalele II should be accorded his rightful status as the King of amaHlubi.
As the amaHlubi are now found in both Natal and the Eastern Cape (and some in
Rusternburg), the King should be officially recognised in all the areas where there is
amaHlubi under a senior traditional leader.
It is important to point out that, this is not a new claim, nor are we creating a new position
within our nation.

Originally i am from the Eastern Cape in a rural place called MaHlubini in Tsolo/Maclear border....the fuuny thing is the Hlubi's in that area had a similar problem that my brothers in Escourt have. The Mpondomise tribe in the area wanted to rule over the Hlubi's and that created a tense situation beacuse the Hlubi's would not let that happen as they only recognise only one chief : a descendant of the Mthimkhulu,Bhungane....eventually Bhisho had to convene as the two tribes were preparing for war....i see a similar situation here....people need to be informed clearly of what is really happening.

I know the Hlubi history because i was born a Hlubi, raised by Hlubi parent who observe Hlubi customs and have been exposed to the Hlubi culture...even when i was in the Hlubi circumcision school they told us the Hlubi history and how the Hlubi's arrived in the Eatern Cape...and others to other parts of the country.

It is wrong to assume that the Hlubi's are rebelling against the Zulu's. They just want to be recognised as a standalone nation and not to be seen as a tribe embedded in another tribe..../As Hlubi's we are have a distinct heritage from other tribes and i would like to submit that we have never been under any King or Chief from any other tribe. Hlubi's will always be Hlubi's nnot Xhosa, Zulu or Sotho's...Hlubi's are Hlubi's. Period.

Hlubi kaNdlela

Uyazi gulela wena muntu wenkosi.

Tshela mina, ubhema nhloboni yogwayi okokuthi in this day & age you still clamour for such rubbish?

Makucace kuwena ukuthi, ubukhosi lobo obufunayo is only ceremonial & not absolute. Pho kusiza bani, ngaphandle koku hlomulisa lawo makhosi akwaHlubi nondlunkulu bawo, beholelwa izimali zentela yomphakathi, mahhala benga sebenzile? This royalty mumbo-jumbo is archaic. Kwayena Zwelithini wansondo loyo ofuna ukuqhudelana naye - his R30m annual household budget is just an unnecessary nuisance & burden to the already strained taxpayers. Abantu bayantula ebubheni ngaphandle la, wena uza ngoku sangana kwakho la!

Phuma kithi masakandini!

UMgulukudu wakudala
Tsotsi van Kofifi

Fortunately i am in my sober minds.....this is a claim to revive the Hlubi nations...African Renaissance (ever heard of that : i guess not..he he he)....this claim is not driven by a desire to live a life of opulence.

We just need to be recognized as a nation. That's it...as there are Xhosa's Ndebele's Pedi's etc. The problem is that every time people talk about a king they immediately think of wealth.....! People have to learn to appreciate our Africanism.....when the Queen Of the British arrives in South Africa or any other place everyone wants to see her but if our own Kings visit...we call the ppl who attend their sessions "Uneducated, Tribalists etc" and all kinds of names that are derogatory.

It's high time that we build a strong nation of intellectuals who value being african...if we continue living like this we're going nowhere, we are just heading for disaster......!

Kubalulekile ngempela ukuthi amaKhosi la akhethwa namhla kube ngabantu abazosebenzela banakekele umphakathi. Kusizani ukukhetha umuntu ozoshada njalo amakhosikazi amaningi ehlulwe yikulwa nobumpofu obubhekane nomphakathi. Izolo (ekadeni) ubukhosi bebungo bamaqhawe cha amagwala. Amaqhawe bekungamakhosi anakekela abantu bawo. Ngithemba yiwo mazwi ka Tsotsi la.

Namhlanje sesibona wonke wonke umuntu egxozela ubukhosi ngoba sokunemali laphaya. Wona amakhosi akhona nje enzani emphakathini? Benzani?

Ngiselapho, uNdlela naye ke uqondile uma ebufuna ubukhosi bakwabo. Into emqoka kuye wukuthi naye azizwe esekhaya uma "inkosi yakhe ithe yakhuluma". Kumele kube nalowo okhulumela abaHlubi ongumhlubi. Kuyinto enhle ngempela ukuthi sibe nenkosi lezo kodwa singabulali abantu ngentela lezo eziphawulwe ngu Tsotsi. Kuyilungelo lawo amaHlubi ukukhetha omunye wabo ozoxoxa namanye amahlubi. Simuzwe kahle uNdlela. Phela zizothanda ukwazi ingane ukuthi ngubani emaHlubini owayeyinkosi. Ayekhona amakhosi emaHlubini.

Uthe esephethe oka Senzangakhona wathanda ukuthi alakhe ilizwe libuswe ngolamandla. Yilapho okwabekwa khona izinduna nasemaHlubini. tribal wars were common and it could just happen that someone was fighting the Hlubi and they had to seek protection from someone. If that happened, the Hlubi king would cease to be called King but be recognised as Chief.

With democracy and people can rewrite unwritten history. Kuhle. Its not the fault of Zulus that some people lost kingship or sort protection among Zulus. Afterall these Nguni tribes are from one TREE, one father and mother. The differences are academic. People in the eastern cape originate in what is KZN now. The language changed just as they mixed with other non Nguni tribes. Some changed because they felt better that way. Nangu uMswati who has been "modernising" the language. Uthi uMswati, "mshayeleni itandla". "Z" changed for "t". People do what pleases them but the Swazi, Xhosa, Hlubi, Mpondo, Ndebele, Zulu and others are part of Malandela.


Phela u Otto von Bismarck e Germany wenza njengaye uShaka. IGermany yayisehluleka ukuthuthuka kubangelwa zinkosi eziningi ezazi busa zisenqabela uhwebo (barriers against trade. Bismark had to fight all these kings with their tiny states resulting in the creation of the single Zollverein (Customs Union).

AmaHlubi ke nawo were affected by similar political upheavals. Was that wrong? It depends on the analyst. However its natural for humans to fight and dominate the vanqushed. If you are not prepared to "fight" in its broadest sense, like African states, prepare to be dominated. Can it be corrected? Yes. If there is a desire by amaHlubi.

Its just like colonialism to some. Certainly there are opportunities of reviving lost states and this should one of the steps. Still Tsotsi would want us not to lose sight of a big picture. The big picture should remain clear to all of us BUT THE BIG PICTURE is also a sum of the tiny fragments put together. Mina ng'funi mali!!

Mahlabezulu,

Loluhlupho luze lwafuza olubhekwe nguMthwakazi kweleZimbargo xathuxathu. Okufunwa yilezi zihlobo zethu yikuthi bananzwe ukuthi bayisizwe esizimele sodwa hatshi esilubhaxa lwesinye isizwe. UMthwakazi laye yikho akudingayo. Zwi zwi nje. Ukuthi umhlaba uzakuthini kumbe uthini, akudingi thina lokho. Osembizeni nguye kuphela ongalandla (nxa engavuthwanga wabusuka maqala) udaba lwesifudumezi kumbe ilangabi.

Ukuthi sesingathi ukuba lesifiso esinjengesikaHlubi yikuswela imfundo, ngibona sengathi siyabe sesinhlanhlatha zihlobo.

Ubuntu budinga ukuthi sahlukanise imfundo yezingwalo leyempilo yobuntu. Eyezingwalo le ngeyezizweni njalo itholakala lula layiloba ngubani kodwa eyempilo yobuntu ngeyethu njalo idinga abantu abazibekile beziqhenya ngokuba yibo kwabo. Kwandile ukuthi abaziqakisa ngemfundo yezingwalo kubengabantu abangaziyo lapho beqhamuka khona kumbe njalo kubengabantu abangaziqhenyiyo kumbe abalenhloni lalapho beqhamuka khona.

Hlubi, ukukhala kwakho yikukhala kwami mnakwethu, kangako ngizagcizelela nginxusa amahlabezulu ukuthi aphaphame ananzelele lo umkhuhlane osungene oluntwini oyikuncindezelana thina sodwa sivika ngezinto zezizweni. Sichahazelana phansi ngokufunda lokungakufundi kwethu. Sihwlithela phezulu amasiko ezinye izizwe sikubize ukuthi yikuphucuka (civilisation) nokuthuthuka. Mina ngithi ukuphucuka okuhle ngokukhulisa isizwe nobuzwe baso hatshi ukuphakamisa esinye isizwe phezu kwesinye. Ukuphucuka yikunanzelela lokuhlonipha izifiso zomfowenu. Ukuphucuka yikunanzelela ukuzimela (sovereignty) komfowenu kumbe kwezizwe ngezizwe.

Zihlobo, asitshiyaneni labalamaphupho abo okuzimela bodwa. Nxa thina sisuthiswa yikukhotha indunu zezinye izizwe masiyekeni abangazimisele ukuhlanganyela lathi kulelihlazo lokungazazi, baqhube amaphupho abo. Akusilo icala ukuphupha noma ukufisa ukungakhonyelwa ngesinye isizwe. Mina ngithi indoda eyindoda ayiziqhenyi ngemikhuba yezinye izizwe ichakazela ezayo phansi.

MaAfrika amahle, ikakhulu thina imzansi asitshengiseni ukuphucuka ngokuhloniphana langokuzwelana, hatshi lo umjaho wamagundwane (pardon the pun) esesiwenza wokuncindezelana.

Ayihlome igadle bakwethu.

If its not for wealth, then what is it for? Pho wena ke usufuna ukuthi leyo Nkosi yakho ihambe ikhonzwa lapha efika khona njenge salukazana lesi ese bhilitani? Ukubona kuqondile njalo ku African ukuthi abantu bakhonze zona nkosi lamakhosana lawo? I see everything wrong about that mentality. Baphambene labo abatshona beguqela, bekhonza isalukazana sebhilitani, and bazabe bephambene labo osufuna bekhonze yena Langalibalele II lowo lapha afika khona.
AmaHlubi kumele bazazi njalo beziqhenye ukuthi ngamaHlubi, not to wait for some kingship status mumbo-jumbo to validate their identity.

Baba,

One man,s meat.......

Ukuphucuka kubonakala ngenhlonipho langokuzwisisa umakhelwana. Kanjalo isihlahla simi nje kungenxa yempande. Ungaquma impande, isihlahla siyatsha. Umuntu wonke ozihloniphayo eziqhenya ngokuba nguye kwakhe ulempande elisiko lakhe, eyiyo emehlukanisa lezinye izizwe. Umuntu ongelampande ulugebhezi nje olulindele ukugwcaliswa layiloba yibulongwe benkunzi.

Sizwe sekhethu!

where do i start.......... a lot has been said and i appreciate the attention that this discusion has received.....! First of all can anyone tell of a period when the Hlubi tribe was under any king other that those who come from the Hlubi monarch.... and who that King was? I don't know any....? I would like to state that the Hlubi people all over South Africa continue to recognise Mtshezi(Estcourt) as their homeland to this day....!

Most places i know where Hlubis' reside they are under a Hlubi Chief....according to my knowledge.....

Oral history gives us the following Hlubi Kings estimated to have ruled from about 1300 to
the present:

1. Chibi 1300 – 1325
2. Lubelo 1325 - 1350
3. Busobengwe (Bungane I) 1350 - 1370
4. Fulathel’ilanga 1370 - 1390
5. Bele 1390 - 1410
6. Lufelelwenja 1410 - 1430
7. Sidwabasenkomo 1430 - 1450
8. Mhuhu 1450 - 1475
9. Mpembe 1475 - 1500
10.Mhlanga 1500 - 1525
11.Musi 1525 - 1550
12.Masoka 1550 - 1575
13.Ndlovu 1575 - 1600
14.Dlamini 1600 - 1625
15.Mthimkhulu I 1625 - 1650
16.Ncobo and later, Hadebe 1650 - 1675
17.Dlomo I 1675 - 1710
18.Mashiya 1710 - 1720
19.Ntsele 1735 - 1760
20.Bungane II 1760 -1800
21.Mthimkhulu II (Ngwadlazibomvu) 1800 - 1818
22.Dlomo II and later, Mtetwa (commonly known as Langalibalele I) 1839 - 1889
23. Siyephu (Mandiza) 1897 - 1910
24.Tatazela (Mthunzi) 1926 - 1956
25.Muziwenkosi (Langalibalelle ll) 1974 -


According to Rev. A.T. Bryant, it is estimated that amaHlubi arrived at the Umzinyati around
1650, and then Hadebe would have been the first King of the amaHlubi to rule in Natal.
If Rev AT Bryant’s estimate is correct in saying that the amaHlubi arrived at the uMzinyati
around 1650, then Hadebe would have been the first King of the amaHlubi to rule in Natal.

Current Monarch of the amaHlubi, is his Majesty, king Muziwenkosi Johannes Hadebe ka
Tatazela, Langalibalele II.
AmaHlubi are now found all over South Africa under over 20 chiefs who pay allegiance
to Isilo Langalibalele II. These Hlubis are found in areas like, Newcastle, Ladysmith,
Estcourt, Ixopo, Hershell, Matatiele,Mt Fletcher, Mt Frere, Qumbu, Tsomo,Tsolo, Maclear and
Rustenburg.
The following senior traditional leaders pay allegiance to Ingonyama Muziwenkosi:
1. Inkosi Hadebe – Ixopo
2. Inkosi Hadebe – Newcastle and Dundee
3. Inkosi Ndaba – Estcourt
4. Inkosi Hadebe – Ladysmith
5. Inkosi Magadla – Matatiele
6. Inkosi T Zibi – Mt Fletcher
7. Inkosi Ludidi – Qumbu
8. Inkosi M Zibi – Rustenburg
9. Inkosi Nongamile Zibi (acting) - Middledrift
10. Inkosi Mehlomakulu – Qumbu
11. Inkosi Mehlomakulu – Mt Frere
12. Inkosi Mehlomakulu - Herschell
13. Inkosi Luphindo – Matatiele
14. Inkosi Sibenya - Mgwalana
15. Inkosi Mini – Qumbu
16. Inkosi Ncwana - Tsomo
17. Inkosi Nhliziyo - Ngqwaru
18. Inkosi X – Peddie (Ngqushwa)
19. Inkosi Matandela – Matatiele
20. Inkosi Mvunge - ka Mlindazwe – Toleni
21. Inkosi Phumelele Ntaba ( Aaaah Ntabayezwe!!! Bayethe Bhungane, Mthimkhulu )- Tsolo/Maclear(Nqanqarhu)
22. Inkosi Welile Notha – Mt Ayliff


Are Hlubi leaders Chiefs or Kings?

We have for several hundreds of years regarded the leaders of our nation, who descend
from the main royal house, that is the house of Hadebe, as Kings.
From the research conducted by SB Hadebe on this question, for his theses, he concluded:
The amaHlubi regard all the rulers who descend from the royal house, which is now
in Estcourt district as Kings. Bhungane, Mthimkulu and Langalibalele were Kings;
they were never subjects of the Zulu Kings. (1.6 page 10 – 11).
Even the current head of the amaHlubi nation is referred to as either:
Ngonyama (the Lion)
Nkosi yamakhosi (King of Chiefs)
Isilo (ruler of the Lion Kingdom)
This is further supported by HM Ndawo in his book, “ibali lamaHlubi” (the story of the
amaHlubi), who throughout the book refers to Hlubi leaders as Kumkani (Xhosa word for
King). He goes further to explain that the amaHlubi called the head of the nation, iSilo, and
his majesty’s wife would be referred to as Ndlovukazi, similar to the Zulu and the Swazi.
Isilo is the same as Ngonyama, which means King in the English language.
Unpublished statements by a Sivivi kaMaqungo in the James Stuart Collection (Killie
Cambell Library, Durban, it is stated “Ntsele was a great King, even far mightier and better
known was his son King Bungane”. Giving testimony to the fact that our leaders were
referred to as Kings.
Further testimony is found in AT Bryant’s book, “olden Times in Zululand and Natal (page
87), where he writes about Dingiswayo (Godongwana) of the Mtetwa:
“His path took him up-country, through the Nkandla district, and finally landed in Hlubi-land
(the country of the emaHlutshini along the upper Mzinyati, 120 miles from the sea) then
ruled by King Bungane, son of Ntsele.”
Further, there is undisputed evidence that amaHlubi were once the largest tribe South East
of Africa with numerous clans and subclans. Some of these clans had their own Chiefs who
paid allegiance to the Hlubi King. Evidence of this is found in (among others) J Wright and A
Manson’s book “the Hlubi Chiefdom), which states that:
“Although Bhungane is said to have a special knowledge of medicines of Chiefship, and
although his rule extended over a larger territory, his subordinate Chiefs seem to have
retained a considerable degree of autonomy. “
This is then testimony that to have chiefs under the Head of the Hlubi nation is certainly not
a new phenomenon. This on its own confirms that the amaHlubi head has always been
inkosi yamakhosi that is head of Chiefs, commonly referred to as a King.
Even in Norman Herd’s Bent Pine, when he describes the manner in which king
Langalibalele was buried after his death in 1889, he begins by saying that “Langalibalele
received the kind of burial reserved for tribal kings”.
One can also infer from the remarks made by king Langalibalele to the Bishop of Natal
during his trial in 1873 that from the fact that he had an intimate friendship with both king
Cetywayo of the amaZulu and Moshoeshoe of the baSotho, that they must have accepted
him as their equal.
[u][/u][i][/i]

Thats convincing, but can you explain to us how did the Hlubi people escape being conquered by Shaka.
The basic argument that most people have against you is that Shaka unified almost all (if not all) the clans in the now KZN arrear, therefore we are all (people from KZN) his subjects(then iSilo Samabandla King Zwelithini is the only iSilo in the arrear).

AmaHlubi during the reign of King Shaka of the amaZulu

History records confirm that leaders of the mighty amaHlubi nation, had special knowledge of royal medicines and medicines for rainmaking. Some sources also indicate that the
amaHlubi “are declared to have been a race of intrepid warriors”. The iziYendane were the most feared regiment during Bungane’s reign under the commander-in-chief of Makhatha
ka Ndlukazi (from Shabalala clan).
Norman Herd (page 2) commented that: “History records are inescapably dominated by the
dramatic exploits of the Zulu. Yet the amaHlubi, one of the largest perhaps the largest of
the eMbo had had their hour of greatness….at the beginning of the Nineteenth century the
Zulus were a tiny insignificant clan and from their social pinnacle the amaHlubi could look
down upon them as despised tobacco-sellers.”
It is no wonder then that none of the other mighty nations in the region dared to attack the
amaHlubi, in particular reference to the Ndwandwes and Mtetwa.
It is for this reason that even Godongwana (later to be called) Dingiswayo, Shaka’s mentor,
sought shelter from Bungane when running away from the spear of his father Jobe. It is
here that he was brought up and learnt the medicines of kingship, which he used on his
return to reclaim his throne. Dingiswayo must have told Shaka about the relationship with
the amaHlubi. For although Shaka attacked and conquered many tribes, amaHlubi during
the reign of Bungane and Mthimkhulu were spared. Clearly amaHlubi had a very cordial
relationship with the amaZulu during the reign of Shaka.
HM Ndawo on page 256 reports;
“(Prince) Mahwanqa (brother to King Mthimkulu) was always well received by the Zulu
monarchy, for the amaZulu and amaHlubi have always been in very friendly terms, offering
advise to each other on several matters.”
This is also further demonstrated by Shaka’s response upon being told that the
amaNgwane Chief Matiwane, had killed Mthimkulu during a surprise attack. It is reported
that Shaka promptly sent his troops to search and destroy Chief Matiwane. (HM Ndawo
page 238)
It is further reported that after the death of Dingiswayo, Shaka’s biggest challenge was to
conquer Dingiswayo’s killers, Zwide ka Langa of the Nwandwe (Nxumalo) tribe. In 1826 he
then visited the amaHlubi to request their medicine (intelezi) and the support of the
Iziyendane regiment. For a long time during Shaka’s reign the iziyendane volunteered their
services and were considered one of the most trusted regiments. This was so because at
this time, their king, Mthimkulu, had died and amaHlubi were recovering from the
destruction that followed Matiwane’s attack. Moreover, it was common for these two nations
to support each other at the hour of need.
We can therefore conclude that contrary to common belief, Shaka never conquered the
amaHlubi. Instead was happy for them to rule independently as his neighbours.[u][/u][i][/i][color:#FF0000][/color]

Mr Hlubi neNkundla.
Before commenting on your issues, i would like us to clarify some issues which might help us to understand each other. First do ou understand who Mthwakazi (Ndebeles) is? Are you aware that you are debating with Ndebeles who presently reside in Zimbabe? Let me assume that you were already aware of that, then tell me how relationships were like between the Khumalos and ABeHlubi during the times of Mashobane and Mzilikazi. What i know is that Mzilikazi and Shaka joined hands to fight Zwide of the Ndwandwes.


I am not qualified to say whether your claim is genuine or not, but what i want you to understand is that we the Mthwakazians are getting confused and torn into two, that is, we have always respected the Zulus and regarded all different clans and tribes in Natal and KwaZulu as one under one King, but now with these Hlubi claims we are slowly being shown the otherside of the story and that will take time for us to understand and accept. Even though our claims of reognition are similar with those of the Hlubi, but it will take us time to understand the dynamics of Zulu nation and the aspirations of those who were conquered and assimilated into the Zulu kingdom. We will give you an ear, i must admit that so far you are doing a sterling job, at first i just dismissed you as someone who was misdirected and mischivious.

I can't argue/disprove of this, I will have to do my own research and come back on the points you made.
Interestingly my clan (Dlamini) were on the side of the Ndwandwe as Shaka had assasinated our then king Nyanya.(Izibongo zenkosi uShaka, has a this line "UMlilo wothathe ubuhanguhangu,
Oshis' izikhova eziseDlebe," thats where we fell). Our clan was also one of the big players of that time (in the arrear of Mahlabathini) unfortunately for us (and other players) Shaka was a great strategist.

Nqina_Dlamini......

Please do your research i would appreciate your input and knowledge on this matter. Thanks for the interest you have shown....!

great thread gents... keep it up

Engage Hlubi(Bhakaniya).......we want ur input here.....maybe we are wrong sumwhere....or u can add where u deem fit.

i hope everyone could understand that this topic is not meant to offend anyone or look down on any other tibe/culture.....we just want to highlight and correct the wrong that our african bro's and sistas endured during the previous government.

Mr Hlubi kaNdlela
angazi whether you have your special people whom you need to engage, i asked you some pertyinent questions and you just ignored them. Is it how the debate and engagement in this debate should go?

First do ou understand who Mthwakazi (Ndebeles) is?

-- I know amaNdebele......but i don't know who the Mthwakazi clan/tribe are.......!

Are you aware that you are debating with Ndebeles who presently reside in Zimbabe?

I am aware of the fact that u reside in Zim...but what i noticed is that there's a lot of comments made abt south african current affairs and i believe that there are some users from SA here judging from the comments i've read here

Let me assume that you were already aware of that, then tell me how relationships were like between the Khumalos and ABeHlubi during the times of Mashobane and Mzilikazi.

Coming to the relationship betweem the Hlubis and Khumalo's : the Khumalo's(oo-Mntungwa) i know are a Clan under the Hlubi Chieftaincy where i come from.....but there is an article i once read that amaNdebele are a group of people who separated from the amaHlubi and in the Khahlamba region and went to the Vaal and settled there...but i really don't know much about the history of the Ndebele...i know that there's is arelationship in the Hlubi and Ndebele language eg amaHlubi also use the tekela language which is similar to Ndebebele eg when you say i'm leavin in Hlubi you say ngiyakhamba(Zulu and Xhosa is hamba). to drink is also ukunatha in Hlubi......!

What i know is that Mzilikazi and Shaka joined hands to fight Zwide of the Ndwandwes.

in this war they asked the Hlubi's to provide them with the services of iziyendane to work on their amabutho....before going to the war and also during the war.....[/i][color:#CC9933][/color][/u][u][b][/b][i]

Okay Mr Hlubi, my guess was accurate. It s not a sin not to have knowledge about te MTHWAKAZI(Ndebeles) who presently reside in Zimbabwe, even myself i do not know much about the Hlbi tribe, we are here to educate each other. Sometimes it is important to know a bit about the people whom you seek support from. One important thing to note about the so called Ndebeles, there are three kinds of Ndebeles the one in Mpumalanga province of SA, the other in and around Pretoria (Tshwane) and the one in Zimbabwe particularly Mthwakazi nation. We must interogate their connections, if there is any.Nonetheless what makes me understand and have a soft-spot in my heart for your cause it is because of its similarities with onw our causes.

Bayethe Mthwakazi,

if i may ask is there a relationship between those Ndebele's in Zim and those in Mpumalanga and Tshwane....? if there is are their leaders related...do they have one king who rules over those in SA and Zim.....? According to what i know those in Mpumalanga are under the leadership of the Mahlangu family.

bhuti mhlawumbe kungacaca uma ngingachaza ngithi amandebele kaMthwakazi uzalo luka Mzilikazi kaMashobane owayobhaca lena kwaBulawayo ngaphesheya komfula uLimpopo...bangamaNdebele nje ngokwethiwa ngabeSuthu abahlaselwa yileli qhawe lakwaMntungwa ekumukeni kwalo eNgome ngesikhathi uShaka edlondlobalisa isizwe sakwaZulu ngokuthumba nokuhlasela izizwana, (amasuthu, amaxhosa, amaNdebele-kamusi, amaNdwandwe, isizwe sakwaButhelezi, etc etc) i trust you are familiar with this part of nguni history...kahle kahle amaNdebele akwaBulawayo ngamaZulu ngokudabuka kwawo, bazibiza namhlanje ngoMthwakazi, ...
Uma ke sesihlaziya indaba yombuso wama Hlubi...(bakhona emzini kaMzilikazi abakwaHlubi/xhosa, babizwa ngamaFengu...hence you will find izibongo ezifana noNtini, Mpofu (correction accepted here) One must accept firstly taht before Shaka, there were hundreds of nations, tribes,clans , kingdoms that existed alongside the Zulu nation before iLembe came to power.. easiest way to identify these groups would be through izibongo zalezo zizwekazi engidingida ngazo lana.. these included the above mentioned, Buthelezi-(Phungashe, Mnyamana kaNgqengelele), Nxumalo-(Zwide), Khumalo-(Mashobane,Bheje ,Mzilikazi heir to Mashobane), Mthethwa (Dingiswayo) .... and many other clans each surname basically had a ruler, Zondis, Celes, Nkosi's all had tehir kings.. so too did ithe Hlubis..so post Shaka, all these clans, got assimilated into an enlarged Zulu clan...the fact is they are Zulu because tehy were ruled by a Zulu son..iLembe...umuntu wakwaKhumalo ungumZulu only because of Shaka having ruled his or her ancestors njalo njalo, hence the different tribes still maintain izithakazelo zemizi yakwabo....and not ezakwaZulu oNdabezitha, Mageba etc...To my mind teh recent noise about independence of smaller kingdoms reqestingto be recognised as separate from teh Zulu Kingdom is a historical truth as discussed above... the Mzizi clan and a few otehrs did ask for such independence.. history is on their side...if it was not for iNkosi uShaka those nations would exists independantly including the Hlubis....

I think for modern governmental and politicak reasons uhulumeni uyanqaba ukuwabeka amakhosi ezizwana ezingaphansi kweSilo as separate kingdoms..probably more for political manageability, funding, etc...this is my independant assertion and analysis...

Bayethe Bhakaniya......!

wachaza mfo kwazwakala.......! ya i am familiar with that part of the Nguni history(i-mfecane)......during that rise of the Zulu kingdom according to my knowledge Shaka never attacked the Hlubi kingdom because he had good relations with them, he was happy to rule with them as his neighbours because they were very good in traditional Medicine (intelezi).....he just used them to work among his amabutho. At the toime the King who ruled the Hlubi's king Bhungane.....and the man who lead the Hlubi warriors was Makhatha ka Ndlukazi from Shabalala clan(abantu bakwa Shabalala are also found in the Swati tribe). Even the guy who mentored Shaka to be the Graet Warrior sought shelter from King Bhungane The Zulu king who attacked the Hlubi's was King Bhungane.....because he wanted to destroy any tribe in the Zulu/Natal has was under not his rule......and he failed.

There's never bn a tym when the Hlubi Kingdom paid allegiance to a Zulu King(you can also tell me if you know of a period when the Hlubi's did that).....The struggle for the revival of AmaHlubi has been a long one by different individuals and groupings in different areas for one common cause, the recognition of one united Hlubi Nation in South Africa under one King. We know that this will happen sooner or later.....even in the Eastern Cape where i come from the Hlubi's have never regarded themselves as Xhosa's(the tribe that dominates the province).....we have always continued to regard Estcourt(in KZN) as our ancestral home. we still continue to practice our traditions the way we used to do in the good olden times in Natal.......

Uyabona ke wena Bhakaniya - uyishaye ekhaleni. Ngibona sengathi ukubaluleka kodaba luka Ndlela lusikhumbuza ngokwenzakala eRwanda nalokhu okwenzakala eKenya. Ngibona sengathi uzizwa engavikelekile uma engenayo inkosi, uma singekho isizwe sabe hlubi. Phela uma singekho isizwe, ungehlelwa yilokhu okwehlela ama Tutsi eRwanda, amandebele koMgodoyi. Bafa baphela abantu kulokhu kulindelwe uKofi Annan loya baba wase Ghana. nginethemba niyamazi. Nangu uMgodoyi wabulala amaNdebele kodwa lutho olwenzakala kulenja.

kusafanele sibe nohlobo lwe democracy oluvikela wonke umuntu emazweni ethu e Afrika. Kuyiqiniso ukuthi bakhona abeHlubi eZim, nabe Suthu,nama Xhosa. Abehlubi ngamaZulu. Isizwe esibiza ngelama Ndebele yisizwe sama Zulu. Sadalwa ngama Zulu. Leso sizwe sibizwa ngenkomo emabalabala ngoba kuxubaxubene imizansi enhlobonhlo.

Boni ke noma uyishaye ekhaleni, nje Bhakaniya, isizwe sika Mzilikazi kasi "bhacanga" laphaya. Uphosisile lapho. Siwele uLimpopo ngemva kwempi ezimbili ezinkulu phakathi kwa Potgieter no Mzilikazi cishe ngo 1850. Indawo yonke ye Gauteng ibingaphansi kaMzilikazi. Mhlasimbe babevumelene no Shaka. Ngani? UShaka wenqaba ukuthi uMzilikazi alandelwe ahlaselwe. Nagni? Angazi. It was their secret deal and Shaka may have known there would be attempts on his life. Bekuliwa njalo phakathi kwa Potigieter no Mzilikazi kungekho thuba lokupheka uphuthu, licime emini ilanga. Uwela ngale nje uMzilikazi ngoba bamhlasela bafuna inkomo lezi amabhunu. Waqhubeka ebahlasela uMzilikazi baze bavumelana nge Peace Treaty bathembisa amabhunu ukuthi uma engabahlaseli nabo bazomyeka. Yahlala injalo ke.

Phela akekho umuntu uShaka ayemsaba emhlonipha ngaphandle kwakhe uMzilikazi. UDingani ngobu govu efuna lezo nkomo wahlasela uMzilikazi in modern day Gauteng. Awu nkosi yami wazithela phezu kweminyovu. Wabhuqwa uDingani. uMzilikazi nguye owayehola ibutho lakwa Zulu mgesikhathi iLembe leqa amalembe ngokukhalipha kwalo. Wayesazi wonke amacebo okulwa. Abelungu bebembiza ngele "Bull elephant".

Umlando wemvelaphi yomndeni wakwaDlodlo:

(as narrated by historian Mnz. Phathisa Nyathi)

The Dlodlos belong to a Nguni ethnic group called amaHlubi. Their better known ancestor was Mthimkhulu - the ruler of amaHlubi. Following Mthimkhulu’s death his son Bhungane took over the leadership of the group.

By the time of Imfecane (Difaqane) Mpangazitha had become the leader of amaHlubi. At the time when nation was turning against nation the Hlubi of Mpangazitha were attacked by the Ngwane of Matiwane Hlongwane.

Mpangazitha and his people struck westwards and crossed the Drakensberg Mountains and in turn attacked the Tlokwa under Mmantatisi.

The Hlubi leader Mpangazitha, still pursued by Matiwane, was killed. Mehlomakhulu became leader of the fugitive group. The people of Mehlomakhulu scattered - with some seeking refuge among the Xhosa where they became known as the Mfengu, the beggars.

Mehlomakhulu, known as Mahlomaholo by the Sotho, led his people away and sought refuge among the Ndebele of King Mzilikazi. The Ndebele were at that time living in settlements straggling the Vaal River and its tributaries.

King Mzilikazi himself was living at a village called eZinyosini. Mehlomakhulu and his brother Sidinani and their people came under Chief Soxokozela. The integration of the Dlodlos was achieved in 1827, the very same year that King Mzilikazi left the Vaal River area (1822-1827) to settle in the Pretoria area (1827-1832). However, some Dlodlos and their leaders Mehlomakhulu and Sidinani deserted the Ndebele and went back to Zululand. Mehlomakhulu and Sidinani between them left behind six sons who fathered all the Dlodlos in Mthwakazi today.

Apparently the Dlodlo surname is used in Mthwakazi only, but not in South Africa where the Dlodlos go by various surnames such as Mpangazitha, Bhungane, Khali, or Mbanjwa. By the time the Dlodlo were incorporated, the Ndebele state had been in existence for at least five years. Both Nguni and Sotho groups had been incorporated much earlier.

All the same, the Dlodlos came to dominate Ndebele society. Many of them were appointed chiefs ahead of the Sotho and some Nguni people.

Before he became king, Mzilikazi had married a Dlodlo woman, the mother of Mangwana. While the Ndebele were settled in the Aapies River area (Pretoria), some Dlodlos had been appointed chiefs in the Emakhandeni section/division.

A son of Mehlomakhulu, one Dlundluluza was appointed chief of Ensingweni. He was succeeded by his son Mafa, who was killed on the orders of King Nommbengula in 1872. His crime had been that he supported the pro-Nkulumana faction during the 1871-72 civil war in Mthwakazi.

Mafa’s son, Buwehle, sought refuge in Bulilima-Mangwe. Makhulana led the people of Ensingweni. By the time of Imfazo II (1896) Somabhulane Dlodlo had become chief.

The Dlodlos, like the other Emakhandeni people, travelled to Mthwakazi in Gundwane Ndiweni’s party. They set up settlement along the Insiza River.

Layiswayo was appointed chief of Inxa village. He married a Mkhwanazi woman, a daughter of Dliso, the chief of eNtunteni. She bore him three sons: Mgandane, Mtshikitsha, and Ngungu.

Mgandane succeeded his father as chief of Inxa. It was Mgandane who, together with Manyewu Ndiweni, was dispatched by King Nommbengula to investigate the fate of royal herds allegedly confiscated by abeLungu who accused Chief Bere’s people of stealing telegraph wire.

Mgandane’s expedition sparked the 1893 Imfazo I. Mgandane himself was shot dead by Captain Lendy’s men. Oral sources maintain that Mgandane’s head was cut off. His private parts were severed and stuffed into his mouth.

Ngungu was regent for young Mtshikitsha, and later became a member of the native police, amagqokane at Filabusi. He, however, deserted in 1896 (during Imfazo II) and joined his fellow Emakhandeni people who were fighting the white invaders.

The most senior Dlodlo village was led by Linganisa, a son of Mehlomakhulu. Linganisa married several wives, five of them Khumalos, and one MaThebe.

His son by MaKhumalo, one Damasane, was the heir- apparent. Then he married a MaKhumalo who was senior to Damasane’s mother. The sons of this new Khumalo wife were Msindazi and Hole.

Just when it was thought Msindazi would be the heir Linganisa married King Mzilikazi’s daughter Bhitshi, who bore him a son, Manqila. The latter became the heir to the chieftainship.

Manqila died at the battle of Gadade on 1 November 1893. His son Vungindaba was still a minor and Msindazi became regent and was succeeded by Mdala, his son.

The early 50's witnessed the eviction of eMakhandeni people. Mdala refused to go. His son Siphoso and his people moved to Tsholotsho in 1954. Siphoso was succeeded in 1988 by Godfrey Mbulawa.

The story of the Dlodlos would not be complete without mention of Queen Lozigeyi, King Nommbengula’s favourite wife. Her father was Ngogo of Enqameni. She, however, did not conceive, so the Dlodlos sent Mamfimfi, a daughter of Mletshe, to raise seed for Lozigeyi. Her daughter was Princess Sidambe who got married to Siyatsha Fuyane, a son of Mantilingwane kaMnengeza.

At the time of the demise of the Ndebele state, Lozigeyi lived at the Queen’s kraal, kwaNkosikazi in Bubi district. She was a hot-tempered woman who was quick to use a sjambok. She died of influenza in 1919.

Angibonge.

Ndukuzibomvu mfethu ulwazi lwakho lubanzi kakhulu emikhakheni eminingi. Ngihleli ngiluncoma nje. Time and again you have posted in - depth knowledge on many subjects. Okuphanyeke lapha mfethu wulwazi lwangempela. Baningi ngempela oBhungane kwa Zulu. Kodwa ngisuke ngidideke emqondweni ukuthi uma kuna bantu abanolwazi ngesizwe sabo njengabo Ndukuzibomvu, kungani kungazanywa ukuthi konke lokhu kubhalwe encwadini ukuze nezizukulwane ezizozalwa sesedlule emhlabeni zifunde zizazi ukuthi zingobani.

Phela uma kungenzekile, bazotshelwa bafundiswe ngesalukazi nexhegu lakwa [mgabe] esabulawa ngabe lungu. Wenzani ngalokho Ndukuzibomvu? Angikwethesi mlandu kodwa ngumsebenzi wakho lowo. Ungalenzi iphutha.

Yebo oDlodlo laba bebenamandla esizweni sika Mzilikazi ngoba benezibindi. Ilapho ke emandulo obuthola khona inhlonipho. Uma ubuyigwala - khohlwa. ODlodlo laba bebe busiswe nge khono (skills) lokulwa. Ubungaphila kanjani ungazi ukuzivikela?

Ngibona sengathi kuyadingeka ukuvuselela isizwe sabe Nguni sonke. Lokho ngombono wami kuzokwenza kube nokuhloniphana phakathi kwazo zonke izizwe ezigoqela amaXhosa, Zulu, Hlubi, Bhaca, Mpondo, Swati, Ndebele....etc...etc...ngixoleleni enginishiye ngaphandle.

Mangiyigoqe eyami inkulumo ngemibuzo le:

1. Should we revive the Hlubi nation or the Nguni nation?
2. What character will such a state have?
3. What nature of revival should we be concerned about?
4. What components and through what strategies can a revival take place?

Angibonge bandla.

Ntombankala, kengizame kuphendula imibuzo yakho. Mina ngibona kungcono to let each nation/tribe be itself, zingabulawa ngokugwinywa izizwe zakithi. umhlaba mnengi eAfrika to accomodate every nation.

Lo mzila osungulwe lana ngiyawuncoma kakhulu njalo ngizohlala ngiphose iso lami enkundleni ngifuna nje ukuxoxisana nani bantu begazi lobaba bethu...ngobuye ngibhale nami ngalolu bada kuleli sonto esilingena nje ngoMsombuluko....zinqunywa amakhanda ziyekwe we madoda...

Hayi bantu bakithi nisho kwavokotheka.........1

This is what i wanted : Africans sharing their african stories....It's so nice to see Africans united fro one common cause i.e education.

I once heard that there are some of the Hlubi people in Zim but i really do not have enough info in that regard. I am really surprised that Ntombankala you know of Mpondo & Bhaca nations coz like us(the Hlubi) there's very little known about them. It's only the people from Eastern Cape who know that those two tribes are different from ether Zulu or Xhosa but some people are insensitive and ignorant they just take it as those tribes are Zulu or Xhosa. The biggest mistake with people is assumptions. If you come from the Eastern Cape people assume that you are Xhosa and if you come from KwaZulu/Natal they automatically think you are a Zulu.


1. Should we revive the Hlubi nation or the Nguni nation?

Ans : I think any nation that thinks it has the right to be revived and recognised should do so as longas that will note create confusion and tensions among other Nguni tribes.....? Also this is a very sensitive issue it shuld be dealt with in a very wise manner.

2. What character will such a state have?

If a certain tribe had a King before they were destroyed by whoever destroyed them then i think they should be re-instated. This is still another complex issue because if upon the destroyal of your kingdom u paid allegiance to the person who destroyed ur kingdom then you have a problem.

3. What nature of revival should we be concerned about?

Ans : If the Hlub's were comfortable being called Zulu's then they would remain under the Zulu king but since they have never paid allegiance to King Zwelithini and they don't consider themselves Zulu's then i don't see a point why they should be "forced" to be his subjects because that only creates tensions between the two tribes.

The Hlubi's only regard the descendants of Mthimkhulu as their head of state. Even if King Zwelithini can be allowed to rule over the Hlubi's they wont respect or even obey his order...then what king of a king is not respeted by his own people.....? I've said this a couple of times.....everyone who is a Hlubi regards Escourt(Mtshezi) as their ancestral home the Mthimkhulu's as their home.....everywhere you go where Hlubi's reside you will find that the only amaKhosi installed are from this royal house (eg Sidinane, Hadebe, Ntaba, Magadla, Mehlomakhulu etc) both in Natal and the Eastern Cape (also in Rusternsburg and some parts in the borders of Lesotho).


4. What components and through what strategies can a revival take place?

If a tribe has been practicing it's rituals and has been under their king then they should just continue doing so but their king should be afforded his status as stipulated by the government act on traditional leaders.

[/i][color:#009900][/color][/u][u][/b][b][i]

Uyabona wena Hlubi kaNdlela ufike ngqo kubantu abafana njenga nawe. You're very welcome here to share your delusions with equally deluded restless dreamers kulesi sigungu.

Quite clearly you've met abafowenu la coz vese izifiso zakho kunye nezabo angeke zafa zafezeka. Kohlala kunga maphupho nje. I-globalisation ini shiya nilele. Kazi nangenwa yini nibadala ningaka - ukujahana no talagu sengathi ni sangene!

Tyini mfondini!

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi

Where is Tsotsi_van_Toeka.....it's been a long time since he/she has made any contribution...

Muntongenakudla it's good to have people like you who see the other side but as we stand lapha enkundleni we stand for the truth. to discuss the wrongs that were done by both our wrong doings and the colonialists. Criticism is very much welcome....but what is the value criticism when you can't support it with facts.....but still i value your opinion.

Ndlela ungamnaki uMuntu. Ufuna ukulwa kodwa yigwala nje. Kwesinye isikhathi sisuke sithathele izinto phezulu umuntu engazihluzisanga. Yikho lokhu okwenziwe ngu Muntu. Kwesinye isikhathi uma eku form - uposa into ezinohlozi.

Uma uNdlela ekhuluma nge "revival" - ukuvuselela isizwe ngiye ngakubuka ngeso elibanzi. Ekuqaleni bengingakwenzile lokhu kodwa ngithe sengicabangisisa ngaso lesi sihloko asiphanyeke lapha ngathola ukuthi kuyadingeka lokhu. Ngani?

Ngingakaphenduli lowo akengithi kuMuntu, akuqondile ukuthi uthi, "ngeke kwenzeke lokho" except if you are talking about laws of nature like the sun rising in the west or something like that. Kodwa uma ukhuluma ngento eyakhiwe ngabantu, kungenzeka iguqulwe noma yinini.

We witnessed the installation of a king in Afghanistan by Americans when the Taliban ran away. So what can stop the Hlubi if they are determined? We can not hide behind the fingure of globalisation when we do not understand what that means apart from being a loud sounding nothing. Globalisation is someone's strategy to "kill your focus".

To me the reversal of evils like apartheid and other forms of colonialism signals the intention of blacks to revert back to those systems of governance that prevailed in the past but were removed by colonial powers. The reversal is a rejection of western type of governance.

What Ndlela is simply saying is that, "we have achieved certain milestones in freeing ourselves but the reform should progress further to lower levels of governance". He acknowledges the role of the state as we have inherited it from colonisers but wants a decentralisation of power to the guys who used to rule. The colonial state puts us in a quandary somehow because it created institutions that we have "accepted". Hence we are "forced to adopt its model.

Let us not forget that colonialism is directly linked to removal of freedom of these "unsettled" nations. They are plenty. If we are to fight colonialism to the end, there ought to be a rejection of systems of governance that still "resemble the colonial state". Why perpetuate oppression?

I do not want to see this as halucinations. Itshukelwa ebandla. Total freedom will be achieved in Africa if we do not "pretend that all is well". Consider Botswana, its supposed to be a good model for democracy in Africa and I respect their president for not rigging elections like Mugabe, but they too have a problem with a certain "Minority" group that feels marginalised. Namibia is another case. Hey smell the coffee.

The danger with western democracy is its emphasis on "oppression" by the majority.

When Thabo Mbeki came on board after Madiba and spoke about the "rennaissance" (forgive spelling), I said, "wow, what a great guy". But he fizzled out and never followed his theory anymore. I still wonder what he meant about that. My expectation was that he would dwell on these "brands" of African states. What we see in Kenya, Somalia is failure to recognise these brands in Africa.

I understand Ndlela as emphasising on a need to develop brands of tribes. You are Zulu, Hlubu, Xhosa, Ndebele,...etc...etc...because of this and that.

The Matlanders are a victim of white people who destroyed their once viable state. The white man even promised to hand back the state after so many years. It never happened. Now the human spirit does not forget. When you cut off people from their nation, its like severing the umbilical cord of a fetus and expect it to survive on its own. If indeed it survived, it would still have the character of its mother or parents. It would need to know who its mother was when it develops into an adult being.

Now I dont expect someone to come up with some far fetched permutations or theory that seeks to prove that reviving these states would not be viable. We have not tried it yet. Let us focus on what needs revival

Hhayi Ntombi kaNkala(hk hk hk lol) uyishaye ekhanda lapha. Uphiwe, uyakwazi ukuxukuzisa ugebhezi.

http://www.sowetan.co.za/article.aspx?ID=531136


AmaHlubi reject Zulu links

Canaan Mdletshe
3 August 2007

The amaHlubi tribe is one of six tribes that will go before the Nhlapo Commission later this month to contest their kingship.

The tribe says it has never been part of the Zulu kingdom.

The once mighty tribe originates from Eastern Congo in the present day Democratic Republic of Congo and migrated southward as part of the eMbo group from central Africa.

They are known as the Bashubi in Rwanda and Burundi.

Several sources suggest that the amaHlubi settled in KwaZulu-Natal as far back as the 13th century and occupied territory that included Umzinyati, Utrecht, Alcockspruit, Newcastle, Mnambithi, Colenso, Mooi River, Mtshezi, Loteni, Bergville and areas along the Klip River and Buffalo River.

The AmaHlubi are known to have had run-ins with Zulu king Dingaan and his son, Mpande. Historical documents say Dingane killed Dlomo, a son of King Mthimkulu of the AmaHlubi tribe.

Historians suggest that Dlomo was killed because Dingane was in the process of consolidating his power and was not comfortable with the resurrection of the Hlubi ruling house.

He saw this as a threat to his rule near his borders and was keen to neutralise nearby tribes who showed any inclination towards autonomous rule.

The documents say that after their conflict with the Zulu king Mpande, the amaHlubi tribe fled to Mnambithi, under the leadership of Langalibalele, across the Buffalo into Natal in 1848.

The Hlubi settled along the Klip River – a move that was a clear display of the amaHlubi’s refusal to be subjected to the rule of the Zulus.[i][/i][color:#CC0000][/color]

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20050811094425849C135313

Court to decide on amaHlubi monarchy

By Bheko Madlala

KwaZulu-Natal could soon have two monarchs if the Constitutional Court rules that the "king" of the amaHlubi tribe from the greater Bergville area be accorded the same status as that enjoyed by Zulu monarch King Goodwill Zwelithini.

The court is expected to make its decision known in the coming weeks. The lawyer who is representing the tribe, Preds Govender, on Wednesday said that the matter was expected to come before the Constitutional Court in the next few weeks.

Govender said the application was for the lawful recognition of Inkosi Muziwenkosi Hadebe's legal birthright as king of the amahlubi, and that he was the lawful descendant of deposed King Langalibalele.

"The papers are being prepared by our advocates. The registrar of the court has informed us that the matter could be set down for this month."

The restoration application comes after the tribe recently made a submission to the committee which is piloting the province's constitution making process, calling for the draft constitution to recognise a second king in the province.

The application also comes two years after the former British High Commissioner to South Africa, Ann Grant, "released" the late King Langalibalele from "imprisonment" 130 years after his arrest as a gesture of reconciliation and goodwill in front of amahlubi people and an array of dignitaries during the commemoration of the Battle of Langalibalele Pass.

The battle, which took place on November 3, 1873 broke out between the amahlubi and British troops after Langalibalele refused to register guns that his subjects had received as payments for working on the Kimberley diamond mines.

Subsequent to the skirmish, which left three whites and 200 Africans dead, Langalibalele fled to Lesotho where he was arrested and "dethroned", before facing a trial in Pietermaritzburg and being sent to Robben Island.

The tribe, which is scattered in the midlands of KwaZulu-Natal, does not consider itself Zulu. Instead its members are calling for their king to have the same status as other traditional leaders at the level of the current Zulu king.

Govender said the tribe was also seeking reparations from the British government for destroying their kingdom.

"During the commemoration the British Government promised the amahlubi about R21-million.

"However, since then nothing has happened. We are now trying to engage in diplomatic negotiations with the British government."[color:#CC0000][/color][u][/u]

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3045&art_id=vn20080213032028930C148488


Scepticism over would-be kings

By Sipho Khumalo

A government-appointed commission considering claims by four KwaZulu-Natal traditional leaders to be declared kings with the same status as King Goodwill Zwelithini has expressed reservations about documents submitted to support the claims.

The claimants were given until last November to submit documentary evidence to the commission on traditional leadership disputes and claims.

The commission, appointed by President Thabo Mbeki to hold hearings into claims for traditional leadership, required supporting documents to contain detailed information about the history of the traditional leader who founded the kingdoms referred to.

However, the commission, which has studied the supporting documents, has written to the claimants expressing reservations about some aspects of the documentation.

'The commission may refuse to consider a disput'
In a letter to the claimants, a copy of which is in possession of The Mercury, the commission said that it was authorised to investigate all claims dating from September 1, 1927.

The commission said that where good grounds existed, it could consider claims dating before 1927.

"The commission may refuse to consider a dispute or claim on the grounds that a person who lodged the claim has not provided the commission with relevant or sufficient information.

"Having perused the document of the claimant, it became apparent that the claims date back to the period before September 1, 1927.

"The claimant is, therefore, expected to furnish good grounds why the commission should consider the claim," said the letter to applicants.

The claimants have since been given 30 days to furnish the commission with good reasons why their claims should be considered.

"If the claimant fails to furnish the information accordingly, the commission will have no choice but to refuse to consider the dispute or claim," warns the letter from the commission.

The commission has until March this year to determine whether there are any legitimate claims for kingships.

The claimants are inkosi Melizwe Dlamini of eNhlangwini, on the South Coast, inkosi Mabhudu Tembe of amaThonga, in the far north of the province, inkosi Mboneni Mavuso of Pongola, and inkosi Mzondeni Hlongwane of amaNgwane, near Estcourt.

The fifth claimant, Langalibalele Radebe, of the Amahlubi tribe, has already made submissions to the commission, and a public hearing has been held into his claim.

The commission on traditional leadership disputes and claims, which was previously known as the Nhlapo commission, is now headed by Professor Mohlomi Moleleki following the resignation of Thandabantu Nhlapo late last year.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3045&art_id=vn20070903074927396C320063


Delegation celebrates 120th anniversary

By Babalo Ndenze

Mayor Helen Zille welcomed a delegation of the AmaHlubi on Sunday, which included the nation's ruler, King Langalibalele II, as part of the 120th anniversary celebrations of the release of King Langalibalele I from house arrest in Cape Town.

Born in 1818, Langalibalele I was king of the AmaHlubi nation. After the British colonial government was established in Natal in the 1840s, it became increasingly uneasy about Langalibalele's defiance of the colonial authority and his influence among other tribes in Southern Africa.

In 1873, the British colonial government issued a proclamation declaring that since Langalibalele had been implicated in a revolt against it, he was to be deposed. His tribe was broken up and he was no longer allowed to reside in Natal.

Prince Bhekithemba Langalibalele Hadebe fled to Lesotho, where he was arrested. He was sent back to Pietermaritzburg.

From there he was sent to Robben Island, where he spent a year before he was put under house arrest in what is now Pinelands for 12 years.

This year marks the 120th anniversary since he was allowed to return to the land of his forefathers.

Langalibalele returned to Natal and settled in the Zwartkops area, near Pietermaritzburg, under house arrest.

He never regained his power as leader of the Hlubis. He died in 1889 and received a king's burial in the foothills of the Drakensberg.

"The process of reinstating the kings, the Act, has not being corrected," said King Langalibalele I on Sunday.

"The Nhlapo Commission (appointed by President Thabo Mbeki in 2003 to investigate chieftainship and royal disputes) allows us to correct that wrong. Kings were God-chosen," he said.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20050323073353703C546580


Calls for second king to be recognised

By Sipho Khumalo

The Amahlubi tribe, of Greater Bergville, has made a presentation to the ad-hoc constitutional committee sitting in Ulundi, calling for the draft constitution to recognise a second king in KwaZulu-Natal.

This second king, said Thozama Zibi, a Hlubi traditional leader, should be the king of the Amahlubi.

Zibi said the constitution should recognise that there were two kings and kingdoms in the province - one for the Amazulu headed by King Goodwill Zwelithini and one for the Amahlubi. "The current king of Amazulu should be recognised as one of the two kings in KwaZulu-Natal," he said.

Once the provincial constitution had recognised the king of the Amahlubi, the royal family would advise the premier of the name of the king.

Zibi said that there was another initiative under way spearheaded by the Amahlubi national working committee seeking recognition of their kingdom from the Commission on Traditional Leadership Disputes.

He said that long before the beginning of the apartheid government, Amahlubi was an independent kingdom. "But in 1873 the Amahlubi nation faced a difficult time when laws were passed to divide and deny it its position."

There was also a presentation by the Molefe tribal authority which called for the recognition of the Sotho language in the provincial constitution.

The Sotho-speaking tribe, from Nquthu, is established in the province but its language is not recognised in the constitution as only Zulu, English and Afrikaans are provided for.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=139&art_id=vn20041011100953641C967928



130 years later, a king is freed

By Mbongeni Zondi

The British High Commissioner to South Africa, Ann Grant, released the late King Langalibalele from "imprisonment" 130 years after his arrest as a gesture of reconciliation and goodwill in front of his amaHlubi people near Estcourt on Sunday

Langalibalele defied British colonists in the 1870s, leading to his arrest and imprisonment on Robben Island in 1874, from where he was later moved to house arrest in 1884.

He died a prisoner in 1889 and Sunday's ceremony was to "free and restore him to his position".

The ceremony was attended by the speaker of the national parliament Baleka Kgotsisile, KwaZulu-Natal cabinet members Mike Mabuyakhulu and Dr Zweli Mkhize, and the current amaHlubi chief, Muziwenkosi Langalibalele II.

'This ceremony was significant in a number of ways'
Grant handed Muziwenkosi an antique royal chair and a leopard skin, which was greeted with jubilation by his subjects. Grant paid tribute to the courage and leadership of the late Langalibalele and said the ceremony was to break the chains that bound the king.

AmaHlubi spokesperson Bhekithemba Langalibalele said the ceremony was a way for amaHlubi to reclaim their status as a nation.

He said in a proclamation issued by the British in 1874, after Langalibalele was dethroned, the amaHlubi were declared to no longer exist as a nation.

"This ceremony was significant in a number of ways."

Because it was the British who dethroned our king and destroyed our nation, today was important in that they brought back what they destroyed, he said.

AmaHlubi, he said, exist under the current king in many different parts of the country, from the Eastern Cape, to Ixopo, Newcastle and Rustenburg.

With provincial government committing itself to the improvement of the lives of amaHlubi and the British committing themselves to supporting such efforts, Langalibalele said it was only a matter of time before amaHlubi reclaimed their former status as the most prosperous nation in the province.

AmaHlubi, although settled in KwaZulu-Natal, do not consider themselves as Zulus and instead are agitating for their current king to have the same status as other traditional leaders at the level of the current Zulu king.

They originated from the Democratic Republic of Congo and Congo Brazzaville and settled in the northern parts of the country near the Mozambique border.

From there different groups spread in different directions with amaHlubi moving southward and settling in what is now Newcastle, Ladysmith and Utrecht.

However a skirmish with Zulu King Mpande's warriors forced a move to their current area around Giant's Castle.
[u][/u][color:#CC0000][/color]

What more do i need to say ke maHlubi ekhethu........!

This is a good piece of information Mr Hlubi. Now i think i do understand where you coming from and what you are on about.
Thanks Mr Hlubi.

Hope ppl will use this little peace of information.

Hlubi_Ka_Ndlela, I am impressed!
I like the fact that you use references and facts not emotions to further your ideas.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=14&art_id=qw95383050082B245

R7m deal seals first colonial land claim

More than 900 members of the Hlubi tribe are set to return to their ancestral home, in northern KwaZulu-Natal, in the first successful land claim dating back to the colonial era, African Eye News Service reported on Thursday.

The KwaZulu-Natal Commission for Land Allocation announced on Thursday that President Thabo Mbeki would officially hand over the land to the tribe in a ceremony later this year.

Commission representative Kim Jones said all the paperwork in connection with the tribe's claim on 8600 hectares, comprising 43 farms near Estcourt, had been completed. The transfer would be assisted with a state grant of close on R7-million.

The Hlubi tribe's struggle for their land dates back to the late 1800s, when their leader, Chief Langalibalele, clashed with the British colonial government and was arrested. After his arrest, their land was confiscated and the tribe had to move to nearby Draycott.

In Draycott, they were crammed into a settlement of 1 000 hectares, which presently accommodates about 8 000 people.

On several occasions, the tribe asked the government to make more land available to them.

The commission said that while it did not recognise the Hlubi claim as a restitution claim because their removal occurred before 1913, it had recognised the needs of the tribe and recommended they be allocated land through the redistribution process.

Negotiations began in 1993, when the Mentz Commission of Inquiry recommended that the ancestral land be returned to the tribe.

An agreement reached in 1994 was ratified by the minister of Land Affairs, Thoko Didiza. This resulted in it becoming a land reform pilot project, as well as an RDP presidential lead project.

But the process was halted after squatters from a neighbouring tribe, who were not part of the deal, illegally invaded properties within the project.

It has taken six years of negotiations and legal action to remove the squatters so that the state and the Hlubi tribe could settle their claim. - Sapa

Quickwire

Published on the Web by IOL on 2000-03-23 16:55:00 [u][/u][color:#990000][/color]

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=139&art_id=vn20070717032516146C799192


Hlubis stand firm on kingship

By Sipho Khumalo

The Hlubi tribe, whose leader wants to be declared a king with the same status as Zulu King Goodwill Zwelithini, has vowed to persist with its claim, saying that the move poses no threat to the Zulu kingdom as they have never been part of it.

Musawenkosi Hadebe, of the Hlubis, who are scattered around the Drakensberg, is one of 11 chiefs who have filed claims with the government-appointed Nhlapo Commission on Traditional Leadership Disputes and Claims to be declared kings.

The chiefs' claims have angered traditional leaders loyal to the Zulu monarch, triggering talk of war.

However, the tribe said on Monday that it would forge ahead with the application to the commission.

Prince Bhekithemba Langalibalele Hadebe, chairman of the Hlubi national working group - which is spearheading the kingship claim - said people should understand that it was not the prerogative of the provincial House of Traditional Leaders or the Zulu royal house to ask claimants for kingship to explain the basis for their claims.

"They have no jurisdiction to make pronouncements on the legitimacy of such claims. This is, by law, the sole prerogative and responsibility of the Nhlapo Commission. The commission's public hearings are the only place where anyone who has any input/questions/ objections can go to make such," Hadebe said.

He added that the Hlubi had no interest in disturbing the peace in KwaZulu-Natal, as their claim posed no threat to the Zulu monarchy.

"We have never been part of the Zulu monarchy. It is also important to note that our claim is not new. This matter dates as far back as 1848 during the era of King Mpande, followed by several legal interventions with the government of South Africa and the leadership of the homeland of KwaZulu in the 1970s.

"Our submission was made to the Nhlapo Commission in 2005, followed by public hearings held at Estcourt on June 19 and 20 2006. As such, we are surprised at the sudden excitement," he said.

Hadebe said he understood that Mangosuthu Buthelezi and Zwelithini had been invited to the hearings, but had not attended.

"We are thus very concerned about attempts to politicise our claim and incite the public against the Hlubi people and their leader. We have fought and now we live in a South Africa that guarantees freedom of speech and freedom of association. We therefore do not take kindly to statements aimed at pressuring us into submission and silence.

"An urgent meeting has been requested with Prince Buthelezi in his capacity as the Chairperson of the provincial House of Traditional Leaders, in an attempt to gain an understanding of the basis of their concerns and iron out any misunderstandings. We still await a response in this regard," said Hadebe.



* This article was originally published on page 2 of The Mercury on July 17, 2007[u][/u][color:#FFCC33][/color]

It's funny to note that people think our(Hlubi) claim is spme thing that just started in a few years.....when in fact it dates back to many years ago....even before South Africa got independence.

http://www.sabcnews.com/south_africa/general/0,2172,129704,00.html

Hearings on Amahlubi kingship concluded
June 20, 2006, 17:45

The Nhlapo Commission has concluded its two day hearings in Estcourt where they focused on the Amahlubi clan's claim to restore its kingship.

The commission, which is independent and was set out to resolve historical discrepancies in traditional leadership throughout the country, says it will start to deliver results before the end of the year.

The Amahlubi representatives believe they have a strong case. Prince Themba Radebe, of the Amahlubi clan, hopes the commission will find enough reason to grant their request.

http://www.sabcnews.com/south_africa/general/0,2172,91179,00.html

Discussion under way on Amahlubi tribe's grave site
November 02, 2004, 18:15

Discussions are underway to have King Langalibalele the First's grave site in KwaZulu-Natal declared a National Heritage Site. Cape Town's oldest township, Langa, was named after King Langalibalele, who was banished to the city by the British nearly 130 years ago.

King Langalibalele the second of the Amahlubi tribe has vistited Langa and Ndabeni in the Western Cape to pay tribute to his great grandfather. Prince Brayce Mthimkhulu from the AmaHlubi tribe says the purpose of the meeting with the Heritage Resource Agency is to address issues regarding the accuracy of their written history.

In the 1800's, the Amahlubi was the largest tribe in SouthEast Africa.

http://www.sabcnews.com/south_africa/land_affairs/0,2172,7472,00.html


Mbeki hands over land to KZN community
November 18, 2000, 18:00

President Thabo Mbeki handed over the title deed of more than 8 000 hectares of state land to the local community of the AmaHlubi tribe near Estcourt in the KwaZulu-Natal midlands today. Addressing the tribe, Mbeki said the land redistribution programme gives concrete meaning to the hope that people had when South Africa's democracy came into being in 1994. He said the imbalances in land ownership could be resolved without conflict - if all South Africans were prepared to co-operate.

The Mayaba sisters, Thandeka, Nosihle and Nqobile, may be too young to understand but they are part of the generation that will reap the fruit of the struggle of their forebears. Today, there is a shelter over their heads on a piece of land that finally belongs to their tribe.

Two centuries ago the AmaHlubi were dispossessed of the land after skirmishes with the British. Their leader, Inkosi Langalibalele, was banished to Robben Island in 1874.

Today, however, all roads led to Ntabamhlophe for celebrations and the local people were elated about the land that has been given back to them.

Mbeki urged the community to use the land profitably. He also made a call on South Africans to share their challenges.

Mbeki hinted to the chiefs on how they should discuss problems, adding that the country's problem can be solved without conflict.

AmaHlubi hope to cultivate crops and timber, and plans are also afoot to construct tourist attractions in the area. - SABC
Article printout courtesy of the South African Broadcasting Corporation.
Copyright © 2000 - 2007 SABC. See 'Disclaimer'

can u see this link.....it has info about amaNdebele ka Ndzundza

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk3/ftp04/mq64111.pdf

here is the whole article below :


Resumé

Le amaNdzundza sont une peuple de l'Afrique du Sud. Le thèse de déterminer le r6le de son
"monde" (dans le sens d'Heidegger) et comment son monde impact sur son architecture.
Premièrement, le procPs évolutionnaire de I'architecture amaNdzundza est établi. Une série
infinie de 'mêmes' (pareil aux genes) qui functionnent au niveau intra- et interculturelles. À
suivre I'intéraction culturelle des amaNdzundza sur une périle d'un demi-millénaire est
determinée (et une matrice de place et de temps est illustré dans le chapitre trois), pour
trouver les origines d'introduction dans un niveau inter-culturel. Finalement, l'architecture
du milieu amaNdzundza, de son habitats et des cultures avec qui ils partagent son
environnement, sont analyses et une exemple de 'mêmes' est identifié. Ce structure
comprend l'analyse d'incentives spatial religieuses et quelques aspects et éléments de
l'habitat, de la maison, et des murales. Un sommaire démontre des 'mêmes' dans
I'architecture d'amaNdzundza et de ses procès d'évolution et d'origine. Le chercheur conclut
que les 'mêmes' culturels dans le milieu amaNdzundza ont joué le role prédominant dans la
formation de son habitat existential, spatial et structurel, à travers un procés d'evolution
'loci-mêmes', et non pas un élément singulier comme le patronage de l'Apartheid.

ABSTRACT

The amaNdzundza are a South African abaNtu people. This thesis sets forth to determine the role
of their world (in the Heideggerian sense) as it impacts on their Architecture. First the
evolutionary process of the amaNdzundza architecture is established. An infinite series of mêmes
(much like genes) that function both on an intra- and inter-cultural level govem this process.
Next, the cultural interaction of the amaNdzundza over a period of half a millenium are mapped
(and a space-time matrix drawn up: ch.3), as to find the sources of introduction on an intercultural
level. Finally, the architecture of the amaNdzundza milieu, both of their settlements and
of the cultures with which they shared their environment, is analyzed and a sample of mêmes
identified, which best illustrate the même-exchange and evolution. This is done in a structure
comprising the analysis of selected religious spatial incentives, and some aspects and elements of
the settlement, the dwelling and the mural. A summary is given of the mêmes involved in the
amaNdzundza architecture, and their evolutionary dynamics and origins. The researcher thus
concludes that, rather than a singular factor such as the patronage of apartheid, the cultural
'mêmes' in the amaNdebele ya amaNdzundza milieu played the predominant role in the shaping
of their existential, spatial and shuctural dwelling, through a process of 'loci même' evolution.
Morne Foiirie 1999'

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Abstract

Table of Contents
List of Illustrations
List of Tables
Chapter 1 The Study proposal: the problem and ils setting
1.1 The Statement of the Problem
1.2 The Main Hypothesis
1.3 The Delimitation
1.4 The Definition of Tems
1.5 The Assumptions
1.6 The Material, Ils treament and Ils Interpretation
1.7 The Research Methodology
1.8 The Qualifications of the Researcher
Chapter 2 Theoretical Framework
2.1 Sub-Problem 1
2.2 Hypothesis l
2.3 Outline of Chapter 2
2.4 Culture, as Opposed to Homogeneity and Human Generality
2.5 Wliat il Means to Dwell
2.6 Using Semiotics Io Express Même Relationships in Space
Chapter 3 The Dynamics of the Ndzundza Milieu
3.1 Sub-Problem 2
3.2 Hypothesis 2
3.3 Outline of Chapter 3
3.4 Pre-History: amaNguni Origin
3.5 The First amaNdebele
3.6 The amaNdzundza in the Eastern trnns-Vaal before 1823
3.7 The amaNdzundza and Mzilikazi
3.8 The amaNdzundza under baPedi, amaSwazi. Boers and British Rule
3.9 From lhe amaNdzundza-Boer (Mapoch) War to Today
3.10 The Space-Tme Matrix of amaNdzundza Culrural Interaction

Chapter 6

Conclusion

Spatial and Arcliltectural MEmcs and the amaNdzundza Milieu
Sub-problem 3
Hypothesis 3
Outline of chapter 4
Selected Même-Gcnerating Spatial Phenomena
The 'Terra Sacra' Mëme-Pool
The Myth and the 'Crcation' Méme as it Impacts on Architecture
The 'Fire' Même-Pool
The '-zi' or Basic Seltlement Même: the &Même-Pool
The S-Même or the Dwelling Méme as Found amongst the
amaNdzundza
Conclusion
The Sm-Même: Painting the Walls of the Basic D~vcllingU nit
Introduction
Contact with Munl An Cultures
The development of the amaN&un&a Bm-Même
Conclusion


ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS

This thesis is dedicated to beautiful Oana, the girl who supported me so fully during the duration of this
study. She left South Africa and postponed the completion of her own Architecture studies in order to
accompany me to a new continent, to marry me. and to share the hardship and pleasures of life during a
master's thesis with me. Oana, 1 love you dearly. An equally big thank you to my parents, who loved me,
inspired me, and supported me through the pas1 two years as they have always done. Thank you for
bringing me to the threshold of this study despite al1 the financial and emotional difficulties. and despite
never having had these opportuniries yourselves. ïïiank you 10 my brother Charl who used Iiis university
nights to teach me what he learned every day about the human psyche, and my brother Herman who
introduced me at a young age to the scientific mode of thinking at the cos1 of his precious study lime in
medical school. The knowledge 1 gained from these encounters constitutes the matrix of this study. Thank
you IO Oana's Parents for their support of Our endeavors in Canada.
A special thanks you Io Prof. Vikram Bhatt, who guided and supported me through thiç study, and who
brought me to a deeper understanding of the housing industry. Thank you 10 Prof. Roger Fisher and Prof.
Sclialk le Roux from the University of Pretoria, who went far beyond their duties in sliowing me their. and
consequently my own passion for architechire, design and history. Thank you to Prof. Franco Frescun, the
gum of students of South African vernacular architecture, for making available 10 me his lifetime of studies
through his generous donation of original copies of d l his unpublished research. Thank you for teaching
me in the sanctity of your home. Thank you to al1 those who contributed to this study through Our personal
communication, to Prof. Norbert Schoenauer. Karel Baker. Prof. Christo Jansen van Vuuren, Pieter Rich
and Ester Mhlangu.
Thank you ta the Canadian Commonwealth and Scholarship prognm who made the study possible by their
generous scholarship, and McGill University who opened their doors and resources to me. You gave me
infinitely more than knowledge or a degree.
Thank you to the amaNdzundza for being who you are, and building in the way you do.
Moine Fouric 1999

PREFACE

The amaNdebele ya arnaNdzundza is a sub-group of the amaNdebele, a branch of the amaHlubi, in their
turn members of the amaNguni people, who shared the southern African landscape first with the San,
Khoikhoi, basotho, baTswana and baVenda. and later still with the European colonists. They migrated
throughout the southern African continent during the course of their hisiory, originally coming from the
nonh of southern Africa, rnigrating via the east Coast to into the Drakensberg, to the central trans-Vaal, to
the eastern trans-Vaal, and later exiled 10 a hybrid of locations al1 over the Highveld. By the 20Ih century,
their settlements and dwellings had evolved into a unique and colorful architecture for which they are
known throughout the world. In 1955, Professor Barrie Biermann praised their architecture, finding it an
achievement equal to the epitome of European colonial architecture. He wrote:
"Binne die perke van hul onsekere bestaan het van die Mapoggerstamlede in hul stane so na aan die
vewerkliking van 'n argitektoniese ideaal gekom as die Kaapenaars tydens die Rokoko-tydperk: die
wereld mak gemaak, 'n kunsmatige omgewing, beheers en mooi."
("Within the limits of their uncertain existence, the amaNdzundza in their Settlements came as close
to an architectural ideal as did the Capeionians in the lime of the ROCOCOT.h ey tamed the landscape
and crrated a controlled and beautiful environment.")
B. Biermann 195599
In the post-apartheid era, however, art historians attacked the architecture of the amaNdebele, describing it
as an embodiment of the Apartheid Government's 'idealized perception' of the 'other'. the Black South
African way of live. According 10 Schneider,
"...it was a classic example of patron art, a centuries old concept used to perpeiuate the glories of
certain institutions ... In this case. the South African govemment, as pahon, presented its idea of a
lypical Ndebele village. a picture of an idealized ethnic lire in the rural areas and a showplace for
apartheid, with an emphasis on ethnic identity."
Elizabeth Ann Schneider 1989: 112 Cited in Judith Perani: 1998)
Quoting Schneider, the Americans Judith Perani and Fred Smith in their 'Visual aiis of Africa" wrote:
"The apartheid govemment no1 only provided materials, but also a siream of tourists ... Thus the
Ndebele effort that originally started as a way 10 visually express their cultural identity among non-
Ndebele peoples was shortly appropriated by the minority government to showcase the 'otherness*
of the oppressed majority ... The Ndebele mural hadition (thus) became an embodirnent of the white
minority govemment's idealied perception of 'the other'."
Judith Perani. 345
It is in this context that the author determines the role of the nmaNdebele ya amaNdzundza environment on
their dwellings and settlements. The intentions of both the apartheid govemment, and those writing in
deliance of their legacy, have changed what would have been a stnightfoward assumption regarding a
culture's material development into the realm of an academic hypothesis.
Although the above-mentioned thesis triggered this investigation, the author does not limit this ontological
search to the question of apartheid, but rather ventures into the field of architectural evolution. This siudy
sets out ta explain the spatial and anifactual phenamena of amaNdzundza architecture, by idcntifying those
ideas that inspired the amaNdzundza to build the way they did. The author formalizes these ideas by using
Dawkin's concept of cuiiuraü architectural units (memes).

The Mcaning of the Word
To find the original mcaning of the sasotho noun is no casy matter. An early explanation of the
noun in the form ntaTebele is given by Bryant (1929). quoting an informant to define it as "those
who disappear or sink down out of sight (sasotho: teba) behind their (to the Sutus [basotho])
immcnsc Zulu war-shields of stout cow-hide."" The informant thus traces the noun 11iaTebe1e to
the sasotho root ieba meaning 'sight'. Rasmussen (1975)" givcs what he considers the most
probable sasotho meaning (preferred over other explanations such as 'the destroyers', 'those who
stab', 'thosc who disappear') as 'stnngers from the east' quoting Lye and van Warmelo.12
Frescura (1985)'~g ives the sasotho meaning as 'fugitive' or 'refugee'. A baTswana informant is
quoted by Frcscura to give the meaning of the noun as 'plunderer' from the Tswana root rebele.
Parsons in Hamilton (1995). although giving the possible semantic origin as go rebela (meaning
'to strike or bock abou with a fist'), believes that it could have had an even earlier baTswana
(Hurutshe) origin. He judges it to be a derivative from the personal noun Morebele, the name of a
Hunitshe prince (from the westem trans-Vaal, in the early sixteenth ~entury)!~A fter being
displaced by his brother Motebejane, he fled to the Vaal River, and retumed with isiNgunispeaking
mercenaries to attack his brother's new capital at Chuenyane unsuccessfully. He and his
followers were then referred to as M~iebele.'~
The debate on the origins of the meaning of the noun ntuTêbêlé is important in as far as it gives an
idea of how the baSothohaTswana experienced the peoples described as such at the time of first
cultural contact. The words 'plunderer' and 'refugee', for example, give two very different
descriptions of the culture to which they apply.
The Application of the Nouns
To whom does the term nroTébëlê apply? The baSotho generally used it in referring to the
isiNguni-speaking peoples of the East Coast of southern Africa." Amongst these were the
ariiaHli~bi, the Ngwarre, the Northem and Southem trans-Vaal arrtaNdebele, the Matabele of
Mzilikazi and other amaNguni immigrants." Van Wnrmelo mentions unassimilated pockets of
amaNguni in the northem district of Lesotho who are referred to as such by their baSotho
neighbors."The meaning of the noun rrraTébélé could not, though, have been a specialized term
for isiNguni-speaking peoples, seeing that the baSotho also used the term to denote other baSotho
clans. Here can be mentioned the MaNtatwarre's baT10okivu'~ and some baSotho families (those
living in and about the St. Augustine's mission station), who also descnbe themselves as Ndebele.
Brown (1926) narrates an Matebele attack on the Kgabo (baKwena) of the late sixteenth century
western trans-Vaal, the aggressors being 'Shona rather than amaNguni, also indicating that the
noun did not describe any specific ethnic groupFO
For the purposes of this study, the author refers to the Ndebele of Mzilikazi using the sasotho
noun niaTébélé, and to the Early trans-Vaal Ndebele by the isiNguni noun arriaNdebele. After the
dispersal of the amaNdebele, they are referred to as the antaNdebele yu arriaNd:ririd:a, the
arriaNdebele ye aMarrala2' (or, in short, the arriaNdziiridza and aMariala), and the other sections of
the group as the Nortlierrr rrniis- Vaal a~riaNdebele.~~
1.4.2 Other Terms Used in This Thesis
The description of terminology that is key to the interpretation of this thesis is given in chapter
two, or in the text where the terms are employed. These terms include dwellirig (Heidegger's
interpretation), ailfiire, niérire, etc., genenlly used in phenomenology and semiotics. All terms not
specifically defined during the course of the thesis maintain their Oxford Dictionag' definition.
Words that are only to be found in South Afncan English refer to the Oxford Dictionary of South
Afncan English meanings, whereas words in Afrikaans, isiNdebele, isiZulu, and Dutch are
accompanied by a fooînote giving the definition or synonym in English. The author's
understanding of Afrikaans (the author's mother tongue) terms is taken frorn the 'Handboek vir
die Afikaarise Taal' (HAT). The meaning of the isiNdebele terms is taken from Shabangu's2'
1989 English-South Ndebele dictionary Isihlafliiiliilirnezivi, and more specialized terms in the
isiNdebele material culture vocabulary from a wide nnge of published articles and books, and
unpublished thesises on the matter. Other abaNtu terms are used as defined in Sir Harry H.
Johnston's "A Comparative Study of the Bantu and Semi-Bantu languages:' with the exception of
the isiZulu terms, which are defined as in Dent's Scholar's Zulu Dictionary (1974) or Doke's Zulu
English Dictionary (1964).
The prefixes used with isiNdebele words in this thesis are according to Shabangu's "English-South
Ndebele Dictionary." When used in conjunction with personal nouns, the prefixes indicate the
following:
a Kiva- is the isiNdebele locative prefix and denotes the name of countries, towns, etc., e.g.
KwaNdebele, Kwazulu, etc.
a Isi- is the isiNdebele prefix denoting 'the language or, e.g. isiNdebele, isiZulu, etc. (the
sesotho equivalent is se- or sa-, e.g. sePedi, sesotho, etc.)
a Ailta- is the isiNdebele prefix that, used in conjunction with a personal noun, denotes 'the
people o f , e.g. amaNdzundza, amaEskimo, etc., but aManala. (the sesotho equivalent is bu-,
e.g. baPedi, baSotho, etc.)
a Aba- is the isiNdebele prefix that refers to 'the sons o f , e.g. abaNtu ('the sons of the human
race', also known as the baNtu or the ubuNtu)
With most other nouns the prefix only serves to indicate singular or plural usages, e.g. I ~ I I U - (aba-
); i- (pl. ii-); isi- (pl. iitl-); 11111- (pl. abc-); etc. The prefixes trku- and ubu- usually precede a word
with no plural, e.g. rrkurhct~ibeka(l oyalty) and 1rbit11lc( loveliness).
The '!-' in San nouns such as !KIIII~i ndicates the iekela or klick of the letter following on the
exclamation mark.
1.5 The Assumptions
It is assumed that records used to substantiate or illustrate the evidence are authentic and accurate.
On an ontological level, the method and worldview of the phenomenologists is accepted, leading
to a conception of subject and object in the 'world'. Mêmes are defined as unstable yet
eonceivable holons in the second chapter, but will from there on be accepted as units of definable
meaning worthy of integration into semiotic equations. Bryant's thesis on the origin of the
amaNguni is assumed correct, and thus forms the basis of the discussion on the amaNdzundza
origin.
1.6 The Material, Its Trcatmcnt and Its lntcrpretation
The matcrial comprises writings and artifactual reproductions of the 19th and 20th century. The
writings and reproductions include those from disciplines such as the archaeology, history, oral
history, architecture, art, philosophy, mythology, religion, etc. and consist of actual artifacts of the
amaNdzundza's. If an artifact could not be visited or if it has been destroyed, it is accessed
through recordings thereof. Writings not originally in English or Afrikaans are accessed through
translation. Material that has been published in sources that are reputable and have academic
credibility will be considcred admissible. Where, because of lack of alternatives, outdated theories
have been used, this is noted in the text.
1.7 The Rcsearch Methodology
The methodology of research comprises a palimpsest of methods from the phenomenological,
existentialist and semiotic schools of thought. It consists of a reconsmiction of the amaNdzundza
historical-cultural environment, followed by the synthesis of a méme-pool as induced from the
artifactual cvidence. Semiotic notation is used to explain the relations between individual loci
mémes.
Chapter 2
Theoretical Framework
2.1 Sub-Problem 1
The first sub-problem is to determine the dynamics of a human culture and its subjects, and the
system of evolution to which its material realm (the artifacts, or cultural objects) is subjected.
2.2 Hypothesis 1
The first hypothesis is that diverse cultural cores are to be found in a given society, amongst which
varying degrees of intercultural même-exchanges take place, causing the material cultures to
evolve.
2.3 Outline of Chapter 2
The first aim is to define culture and to venfy the existence of the culture phenomenon in the face
of counter-theorems, such as human generality theorems, and the South African homogeneity
theorem. Secondly, the nature of cultural evolution is established in the light of Spengler's
physiognomic method and Dawkins' conception of the même as the cultural equivalent of the
biological gene. Then, culture is reinterpreted in tems of the Heideggerian 'ivarld of the
individual'. Lastly, considering that the loci même concept is akin to that of semiotic signsystems,
the structure of architectural semiotics is explored.
2.4 Culture, as Opposed to Homogeneity and Human Generaliîy
The Definition of the Word 'Culture'
Culture represents a particular type of intellectual development, and also the civilization, customs,
artistic achievements, etc. of a people.z5 The noun 'culture' dates from approximately 1440, when
it meant 'tillage', as borrowed from the Middle French culture, which in its tum was a leamed
borrowing from the Latin word cultura refemng to a tending. care or cultivation. The word cultura
comes from the Latin stem cull-, the past participle form of calere, which means 'to tiIl'.=
In human history, culture comprises the aspects that are socially rather than geneticnlly
transmitted. Each socially differentiated humnn group is to a greater or lesser extent characterized
by its culture. Culture informs the thought and nctivities of its mcmbers in myriad ways, both
perceptible and imperceptible, and distinguishes one human group from another. To human culture
belongs everything2' by which members of a group endow thcir octivitics with meaning and
significance. Being open to influence from both the exterior and the interior in unpredictable ways,
the nature of culture is permeable and inclined towards constant evolution. It is liable to mutate, to
branch out into subcultures, to unite with other cultures, and to generate offspring with its own
characteristics and dynamics. The individual emerged in a culture is not a prisoner of the culture,
and although fonned by it, both consciously and unconsciously, hclshe can affect it, react against
it, and contribute towards its development.
a Theorcms Opposed to the Existence of the Culture Phenornena
Therc is a growing trend amongst modem scholars to avoid what they consider the dangerous and
dehumanizing conception of culture. Rapoport, afler an in-depth analysis of the flaws and nonmeaning
of the term culturez8, decided to replace the idea of cultures in his latter essays with what
he called 'lifestyle groups'. The Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy analyzes the humanistic
arguments against the notion of culture through two basic objections. Firstly. it is advocated that
the concept of culture should be avoided because intuition and evidence show common structures
to arise within the lives of people subjected to different, sometimes opposing cultures. This belief
is attributed to the advocates of human generality.
Analyzing the theories of Spengler, as outdated and totalitanan as they might be, it bccomes clear
that this argument does not necessarily negate the existence of culture, but can even serve to proof
the existence thereof. According to Spengler's conshuct, these common structures mentioned by
the human generalists (in Spengler's terms 'morphological relations') are merely a result of
cultural dynamics. In truth, Spengler's writings are considered to be dehumanizing by the author,
not because of the ideas in his construct but because of the rigid thinking in its application, and the
obsession with creating a deterministic blueprint for the birth, evolution and decline in cultural
evolution.
Retuming to the objections raised agninst the concept of cultures, it is secondly believed that
cultural identity is a stance rooted more in the politics of the decline of empires than in anything
fundamental. A study of the innuences on a single South African 'lifestyle group' presupposcs the
existence of cultural cores. The idea of approaching South African cultures from a viewpoint of
cultural cores is scomed by the post-apartheid South African academics, exactly because of this
second objection. The author adopts the notion of culture as a carrier of specific but constantly
evolving linguistic, religious, material, spatial and habitua1 meanings, which can overlap or Vary in
their differentiation from other groups. This definition clearly refutes the objections brought
against the concept of cultures, and is synonymous with Rapoport conception of 'lifesîyle goups'.
Can the multitude of southem African rural architectural forms be disentangled and matched with
a matrix of cross-cultural influences? This was the aim of many acadcmic studies in South African
vemacular architecture during the past decades. One insight into the subject matter, which was
contributed to the field by the fall of the apartheid ideology and the consequent pandigmatic
changes, is that the existence of separate tribal identities in South Africa was parily fabricated by
the apartheid govemment. One pîrticularly knowledgeable researcher, who set out to disentangle
these cross-cultural exchanges in architecture, was Prof. Franco Frescun. This idea fascinated him
for most of his career, and culminated in his doctoral thesis in the mid-eighties. Whereas he set out
to " ... map the multitude of cross-cultural architectural influences, which could have occurred in
the ethnic cauldron of southem Africa," a study that relied on the existence and discovery of
'cultural cores', his research ultimately made a strong case for black cultural homogeneity." He
writes that, "when current field work, supporied by historical studies, failed to uncover these
(cultural cores), the concomitant conclusion had to be that, in an architectunl sense, we were
dealing with one predominant settlement culture for the southem African region." (Ibid.) This idea
shall from here on be referred to as the 'homogeneity theorem'.
Instead of refuting the existence of 'culture', the homogenists' so-called "cauldron of South
African cultures" merely acknowledges (by implication) a mechanism of cultunl evolution too
complex to apprehend. Rather than abandoning the ctrliure concept, this thesis identifies a set of
mêmes, which are carriers of cultural meaning. This identification is a necessary tool to illusirate
the predominant role of the cultural milieu in the shaping ofthe amaNdzundza dwelling.
Spengler Theory of Cultural Evolution
Oswald Spengler produced the first complete theory on the evolution of culture in 1918 with his
volumes entitled The Decline of the West, which were written in Germany during the First World
War, mostly by candlelight. The most important Spenglerian conception ol'culture is what he calls
its 'morphology', which is the evolutionary process of the culture. According to this conception,
every culture has its own unique "...possibilities of self-expression which arise, ripen, decay and
never return ... just as each species of plant has its ... special type of growth and decline.""
Morphological relations represent the narrow relationships between the parallel phases of the
different cultures, relationships that he believes are strictly symmetrical in structure.
The author does not agree with the way Spengler interprets these 'morphological relations', which
lead him to the conclusion that the cultural destiny is 'preordained for hundreds of years'. The
author, though, considers sound Spengler's analysis, which led him to see the 'world as history'
rather than 'the world as nature', this analysis being called the 'physiognomic meth~d'~'H. e
attributes the 'contents of images', 'picture and symbol', and 'pure becoming' to the 'world-ashistory',
as opposed to the 'content of laws', 'formula and system' and the 'thing-became', which
belong to the 'world-as-nature'. 'Living into (erfirhle~t) the object' is associated to the
physiognomic morphology ('of the organic'), as opposed to 'dissecting the object' of the
systematic morphology ('of the mechanical'). The chapter of this thesis dealing with the loci
mimes in the amaNdzundza cultural environment (chapter 4) draws on Spengler's methodology.
Dawkins' Conception of the 'Meme' as the Gene of Cultural Evolution
In his famous 1976 publication "The Selfish Gene", Dawkins explores the dynamics of biological
evolution amongst all bio-organisms. In his last chapter, much like Darwin did, he mentions for
the first time the human being. What is unusual about human evolution, Dawkins writes, is that we
have evolved as to create our own secondary system, called culture. Cultures evolve, just like
humans do, but seemingly with a very different dynamic. Dawkins believe that all evolution or
change is motivated by some kind of gene dynamic, and sets forth to find the "gene" of human
cultural ev~lution.~'
The idea of seeing cultural evolution as a reflection of genetic evolution is not new. Many scholars
have hinted at this in their writings, amongst them being Sir Karl Popper, L. L. Cavalli-Sforza, F.
T. Cloak and J. M. Cullen to name a few. What makes Dawkins' conception of the gene in cultural
evolution unique, is thnt he does not attempt to trnnscribe its dynamics in terms of a Danvinian
blueprint. Instead of merely replacing the 'natural selectionist' phenomenon with its direct
analogy, thus being 'group selectionist', Dawkins re-thinks the gene. It leads him to conclude that
genes on an ontological level are basic replicators. For anything to keep existing, whether
physically or mentally, it needs to be replicated, if only in the minds of the carriers. On an
ontological level, this replication is not at al1 bound to chemistry, such as the DNA molecule is.
Dawkins believes that, with the emergence of human culture, a new kind of replicator came to
operate on Our planet, a replicator with no name. He writes that this replicator "As still in its
infancy, still drifting clumsily about in its primeval soup, but already it is achieving evolutionaiy
change at a rate which leaves the old gene panting far behind."
Dawkins suggests a name for this new unit of imitation. The English word 'imitation' has its roots
in the Greek synonym nr61e11ieD. awkins abbreviates this as 'meme'" as to resemble the word
'gene' and the French word nt&tfe (meaning 'same'). The author will, for the purpose of this thesis
and academic correctness, adopt the French term nQne (with the circumfiex accent) in refemng to
Dawkins' 'meme' (without the circumflex accent).
The Author Conception of the 'Même'
Dawkins gives the following examples and description of his memes: "Examples of memes are
tunes, ideas, catch-phrases, clothes fashions, ways of making pots or building arches. Just as genes
propagate themselves in the gene pool by leaping from body to body via sperms or eggs, so memes
propagate themselves in the meme pool by leaping from brain to brain via a process which, in the
broad sense, can be called imitation." Imitation then is how mêmes can replicate, just as is the case
with genes. Not al1 mêmes in the même-pool are equally successful. Some mêmes are much
stronger then others and one même could even come into parallel existence simultaneously in
separate pools. A good example of a very strong même is the "God" même.
Dawkins' explanation of the relation of memes to each other and of how we perceive them is
linked to his understanding of the gene. It will be sufficient here to say that mêmes, being
"replicable meanings", should not be seen in a Newtonian way. They always consist of sub-mêmes
and find themselves to be parts of greater systems, which in tum constitute mêmes. For Arthur
Morne Fourle 1999 Mdmes in amsNdzundza Anhitectum
Koestler'sM, the même would be a holon with Janusian qualities. One useful attribute of the meme
identificd by Dawkins is their ability to form symbiotic rclationships for their survival. He
mentions the relationship between the "God meme" and the "fire of Hell meme." In working
together, these mêmes have insured reciprocally their survival for thousands of years and are still
going strong. Selection thus favors mêmes that exploit their cultunl environment to their own
advantage.
The même as a liquid element in an infinitely complicated and diverse system will not be
interpreted here, as the gene is, as the building block of a mechanistic or Cartesian system. In
understanding culture through Spengler's physiognomic morphology, the mêmes become unstablc
and enigmatic elements, which tend to defy any rigid organization. We can only identify certain
phenomena in the architectural system that seem to be highly replicable and thus effective, usually
operating in chonis with mêmes relating to the political, religious and social systems of the
culture. Mèmes can always be broken down into smaller même parts, and are always part of some
bigger même system, the sum of which, as in the case of Dawkins' genes, constitutes a 'soup' in
the cauldron of human culture.
The complex nature of the même can be best illustrated by the citing of an example. The
amaNdebelr mural painting given in figure la (facing p.15) will serve our purpose here. The
origins of this mème have been lost in the seemingly bottomless pit of African history. The
furthest back we can trace the mural même is to the 15th century baKwena culture. How it came to
the amaNdebele might never be completely undcrstood. The mural is definitely a phenomenon in
its own right, and is thus considercd a mème. But is it a même? In calling it a mural, we link it
ontologically to the wall (Dutch iilurtr) behind it, which constitutes a même in itself. Conceptually,
it is conceived as part of a set of murals around the house, which in its tum is part of the set of
painted houses constituting the homestead or the village. These can al1 be considered mêmes. It is
linked to the social system of the people, to the woman's need to express her family's social
status, and to her experiencc of big cities. It also depicts elements of Western architecture,
displaying mêmes that can be traced back to the classical origins of European architecture. These
painted pediments and columns themselves arc very complex mêmes or even même-pools. All the
colors, lines, or pockets of images could also be considered mêmes.
Morn6 Fourie 1999 Mdmes In amoNdzundza Arcllileclum
From this it is clear that mimes cannot be defined or pinned down any more than just by calling
them tempomry quasi-phenomena expressed in the desperately inadequate language of science. No
all-encompassing hierarchy can be established. Although we can grasp the idea of mimes existing,
no single mSme can be said to exist in isolation. To acknowledge this ontological aspect of
mimes, the author borrows a technique used by linguists of the dcconstructivist movement (such
as Derrida), to express the relativity in structuralist conceptions. The technique that had its roots
in the phenomenologist movements and was coined sous rasure (French for 'under erasure') by
Heidegger, consists of canceling out a concept which can and, at the same time, cannot be
captured or defined, by drawing a line through it or crossing it out. To acknowledge the real nature
of the W, it should be erased when used in isolation, and not when considered in the context of
a 'mime-pool'. For reasons of legibility, the author will consider 'W and 'mimes' to be
synonyms in his analysis.
2.5 What It Mcans to 'Dwell' in the &World'
2.5.1 Introduction
In order to explore the architecture and culture of the amaNdzundza, it becomes necessary to
understand the ontological situation of the individual, the culture and the artifact. The process of
building, which is the precondition for the existence of the amaNdzundza settlement (both
artifactual and conceptual) will be approached from a phenomenological point of view. The author
explored the phenomenological writings of Heidegger, and of those scholars who had expanded on
his philosophy. Heidegger's thoughts, expressed in his 1954 essay on 'Building, dwelling,
thinking', are taken as a point of departure for the architectural discussion in the following
chapters. In order to introduce the concepts used in his essay to the reader, a short summaly of
Heidegger's advanced terminology will be given?
'Being' (always capitalized) is that primordial condition or 'ground' which allows everything else
to come into existence. Heidegger called everything else--humans, solar bodies, plants, objects-
'beings'. 'beings', (always with a small 'b') are those entities that exist in the world. He contrasts
'Being' with what he calls 'the Nothing'. 'The Nothing' is the possibility of the non-existence of
all beings or things, literally 'no-thing'. Heidegger investigates the experience of 'being' a typical
human being, or humans in their 'average-everydayness'.
To mark the significance of our existence, Heidegger gave the name Daseiri to the type of 'being'
we cal1 human beings. Daseijr translates into 'being-there'. Before anything else, we exist.
Because existence functions as the underlying ground of Daseiri, Our existence determines Our
possibilities. The evcnt of this existence is Our 'throw-ness'. He calls any DaseinS particular
culture, the social environment Dasein is thrown into, Daseiti's 'world'. The different social
practices of a specific culture makc up the 'world' of that culture. To stress the importance of the
'world', Heidegger called Dasein's activity of existing 'being-in-the-world'. The use of hyphens
emphasizes that there is no distance between Our world and us. We are as much a part of the
'world', as it is part of us. Dasebr 5 interest and involvement with its world is intrinsic to Dasein.
'The One' represents al1 the possibilities for Dasebi's 'world' as a collective whole. 'The One'
consists of other Daseitr whose presence creates the world in which an individual Dasein can act.
Heidegger's German term for 'the One', dus Man, is also translated as 'the They'.
Daseiii that knows of nothing beyond taking over the habits and lifestyle of its forefathers has an
existence called 'undifferentiated'. If DuseLi pro-actively exchanges its world for another, but
Daseiii S actions are still determined by 'the One', Dasein has entered the 'inauthentic' mode of
existence. On the other hand, Daseiu might corne to realize the omnipresence of 'the One', and
begin to experience what Heidegger calls 'anxiety'. 'Anxiety' is Daseiti 's realization that anything
they might possibly do has already been defined for them in advance by 'the One'. Eventually,
they will retum to 'the Nothing', having lived life as cogs in the wheel of 'the One'?' The use of
the above-mentioned Heideggerian concepts (Dasein, 'world' and 'being-in-the-world') facilitates
the identification of loci-memes in the amaNdzundza cultural environment later in this thesis.
2.5.2 The Term 'Dwelling' and lts Etymology
The verb 'to dwell' (dwelt; dwelled), is given by the Oxford Dictionary3', amongst others
definitions, to mean 'occupy as a place of residence', or 'to inhabit'. Hence 'dwelling' (as a
participial adjective) is defined as 'abiding'. 'Dwelling', in the concrete sense. refers to a place of
residence, a 'dwelling' place, habitation or house. Both definitions are simultaneously referred to
in the title, defining the scope of the thesis as dealing with the process of 'dwelling' and the spaces
and structures in which 'dwelling' takes place, the 'dwellings'. To 'dwell' ('dwelling' = 'dwell'
[verb] +-hg) means to reside (1250 AD) from the old verb dwelleir, 'to remain' or 'to stay' (1200
AD). In the Old English dwellan (725 AD) meant 'to hinder', 'delay', 'be tardy', 'to linger' or 'to
Morne Fouris 1999 MBmes in arnaNdzundza Archilocfure
tarry'. It is taken from the original meaning 'to make a fool of or 'to lead astray'. The Old English
hvellen is cognate with the OId High German tivellen ('to hinder' or 'delay'), the Old lcelandic
dvelja ('to tarry' or 'delay'), the Proto-Germanic dwaljanan, the Middle Low German Avel or
dwal ('senseless', 'foolish') and lastly the Gothic dwals ('foolish'). The noun 'dwelling' was first
use in the sense of a place of residence in 1378 AD and as to referring to staying or waiting and
delay or lingering before 1300 AD?'
2.5.3 The Hcideggcrian Interpretation of Dw~lling'a~n d Its Use in the Context of
This Thesis
What does the verb 'to dwell' refer to? This question is best answered by including the verb
'building' in Our analysis. In a means-end-schema, it seems as if we attain dwelling only by means
of building. The latter, 'building', would thus have the former, 'dwelling', as its goa1:OHeidegger
proposes that al1 buildings are dwellings, since Our domain of dwelling is not limited to Our
dwelling place (lodging). Buildings that are not dwelling places are determined by dwelling. they
'serve man's dwelling'," being in the domain of our dwelling.
We have thus determined that building and dwelling are related as respectively means and end, but
this does not completely describe the relationship between the two concepts. To proceed we need
to introduce a second and closer relationship, as presented by the unified schema. The unitied
schema would have it that 'to built' is in itself already 'to dwell'. To understand this, we can tum
Our attention to the linguistic meaning of the Bauen (to build). In the Old High German, the word
buan means to dwell. This meaning has been lost in the modem word Batten ('to build'). The
meaning can still be traced though, in covert traces, such as in the modem German word naclibar
(neighbor). The nachbar is the nachebar is the tiacl~gebaiter is the 'near-dweller'.
Having determined the special relationship between dwelling and building, we can turn to a
second important relationship entertained by the verb 'to dwell'. As have been noted, the old high
German word buan means 'to dwell'. The word buatr, subsequently barten (to build), and
previously bhu and beo is the bin in icli bin ('1 am'). The infinitive form of bin is bis (to be). Iclr
bin, du bist can thus be îranslated to mean '1 dwell, you d~ell'.'~
Mom6 Fourie 1999 MBrnes in amaNdzundza Anhifec!um
2.6 Using Semiotics to Express Mfme Relationships in Space
2.6.1 An Introduction to Architectural Semiotics
One of the scholars who developed this technique of analyzing the environment was Donald
Preziosi, a former student at Harvard, and teacher at Yale and MIT. In his seminal work, Semiotics
and the Built Environment. an Introduction to Architectonic Analvsis, Preziosi" develops a system
of analyzing dwellings and settlement patterns that can serve as a useful tool to any scholar
dealing with an existing domestic culture. Preziosi believes that any settlement consists of an anay
of co-present objects that can be seen as components in a multitude of interrelated sign systems.
Each system in its turn address partly unique and partly redundant functions. In different settings,
the same object formation has different meanings and behavioral associations. This is also true for
the same setting in alternative eras. Both object formations and their conceptual associations thus
are subject to chronological change. To paraphrase Preziosi:
Every human society communicates architecturally. The component units of an architectonic code or
system consist of 'conastively opposed formations' presented in media addressed to visual
perception. Distinctions or disjunctions in material formations are intended to cue culture-specific
differences in meaning in a manner analogous to other semiotic systems such as verbal language or
bodily gesturing.
On discussing the hierarchical organization of the architectonic system Preziosi points out that the
code is not organized in an 'atomistic' fashion, but rather in a system of relationships, in which the
'significative' entities are defined in terms of their relative position in a multidimensional network
of relationships. He builds his architectonic code, just as any other semiotic system would have
been, on the principle of relational invariance, seeing that apparently identical formations in
different systems might be only superficially 'homonymous' because their nature is determined by
their relationships with the other!4
Space-Cells and Matrices
In Preziosi's analysis, the first apparent fundamental shared by architectonic systems is the fact
that they are all made up of what might be called 'space-cells'. They consist of portions of the
spatial continuum that are bound off from each other in a great variety of ways. A settlement may
thus be seen as a complex space-time framework, the activities of which are framed or situated not
only spatially but also sequentially. The space-cells are manifested in the topological property of
'boundedness'. Seeing that all space-cells share this quality along pan-cultural boundaries, it can
be asserted that all space-cells are 'equivalent' in a topological sense. Another common quality of
Morne Fourle 1999 Memes in amaNdzundza Rrchitecture
la Detail of a moi dern
amaNdzundza mural
Fig. lb Minimum formula for the inuariant sequential order of
the formative features of the Minoan hall system (after Presiozi)
E
Fig. Ic Interrelations of the uarious cells of two Egyptian
Hall-system houses and the Gntagmatic ordering of the
formative features 06 the tut0 houses lafter Presiozi)
space-cells is what Preziosi terms fheir 'geometric axis'. This refers to their physical manifestation
in a formal sense. Using these two constants, the analyst can compare and clnssify space-cell~~~.
Preziosi calls these constant measures 'the analyst'sfianre'.4e
A space-çell may operate by itself, or may, as in the case of the three Minoan residential cells
identified by Preziosi at Knossos (see figure Ib), enter into a varieîy of higher-level formations. In
the example given by Preziosi, the three cells in the Minoan house enter into a relationship that he
calls a hall-system. In such a case the space-cells aggregate into pattemed sequences of cells,
called 'ccll-matrices'. He then formulates the sequence, so that it finally reads: space-cells,
matrices, structures and neighborhoods. As one moves up this ladder of complexiîy, the
architectonic sibm is an increasingly more abstract or 'diagammatic' entity. Preziosi apparently
refers to this when he asserts that large-scale formative patterns may achieve canonical
'idiomaticization' (pattern fixing). It is in code-specific situations only that pattern fixing may
lead to architectonic universals.
Architectonic Meaning
Preziosi starts his discussion on architectonic meaning lamenting the complexity of the topic, and
the consequent failure of al1 scholars to structure a complete analysis. He thus concentrates on
ideas on the topic only, rather than proposing a unified matrix. He states that every aspect of
architectonic formation is meaningful in some sense. The indirectly significant units (features) are
meaningful in different ways than the directly significant (cells, matrices). The architectonic
medium is always in potential chows with human bodies and other material resources of the
biosphere to generate meaning. This complicates architectonic semiotic meaning way beyond the
complications of linguistic semiotic meaning.
In distinguishing the 'formal structure' of an architectonic code from its 'material structure', he
notes that they consist of 'semi-autonomous' systems and domains of meaningfulness.
Furthemore, a more salient distinction in terms of meaningfulness 'cuis across' both formal
structure and material organization." Preziosi emphasizes the difference between meaning and
reference in his analysis, Oefining meaning as:
" ... Uie specification of an ordered trace of relationships which a given sign bean to other
signs within the same code" (and reference to) ". .. irnplicate a c u l ~ d l yCO -presenst et of
text, doctrines or beliefs, which themsclves comprise significative formations in their own
right in adjacent codes."
The semi-autonomous domain of meaningfulness is what the author refers to when formulating the
Morne Fourio 1999 MBmes in arnaNdzundza ArchiIoclun
loci-mimes. The loci même-pool is a 'sign system' in the semiotic sense of the word. and thus tics
in perfectly with the system of architectural semiotics used by Preziosi. The author used Preziosi's
idea of the 'space cell' for the analysis of one amaNdzundza dwelling complex, to illustnte how
their architecture can be analyzed using a conventional semiotic system. In the fourth chapter the
author systematically builds up a semiotic equation for the loci mime-pool.
2.7 Conclusion
The first sub-problem was to determine the dynamics of a human culture and its subjects, and the
system of evolution to which its material realm (the artifacts, or cultural objects) is subjected. The
first hypothesis was that diverse cultural cores are to be found in a given society, amongst which
varying degrees of intercultural mime-exchanges take place, causing the material cultures to
evolve. The first problem was to define culture and to verify the existence of culture-phenomena
in the face of counter-thcorems, such as human generaliîy theorems, and the South Afncan
homogeneity theorem. We found that in human history, culture comprises the aspects that are
socially rather than genetically tnnsmitted. Secondly, the nature of the evolution of culture was
established in the light of Spcngler's physiognomic method and Dawkins' conception of the meme
as the cultural equivalent of the biological gene. The author did, for the purpose of this thesis and
academic correctness, adopt the French term 'même' in refemng to Dawkins' 'meme'. We saw
that the mime as a liquid element in an infinitely complicated and diverse system will not be
interpreted here, as the gene is, as the building block of a mechanistic or Cartesian system.
Then, the mcaning of culture as the Heideggerian 'world' of the individual was established. We
saw that, in order to mark the significance of our existence, Heidegger gave the name Dasein to
the type of being we cal1 human beings. He calls any Dasein S particular culture, the social
environment Dasein is thrown into, Dasein S 'world'. The different social practices of a specific
culture make up the 'world' of that culture. To stress the importance of the 'world', Heidegger
called Dasein's activity of existing 'being-in-the-world'. Heidegger showed us how we attain to
dwelling only by means of building. According to this, building has dwelling as its goal. The
author thus showed that diverse cultural cores are to be found in a given society, amongst which a
varying degrees of intercultural même-exchanges takes place, causing the material cultures to
evolve. Lastly, to effectively use the idea of the même in a structured environment (in explaining
the dynamics of evolution in the amaNdzundza architectural milieu), the panllel lingo of
Semiotics was analyzed and adopted.
Morne Fourle 1999
Chapter 3
The Dynamics of the amaNdzundza Milieu
3.1 Sub-Problem 2
The second sub-problem is to define and delimit the cultural environment of the amaNdzundza,
and thus to reconstruct the space-time matrix within which même-exchanges took place.
3.2 Hypothesis 2
The second hypothesis is that the cultural environment of the amaNdzundza brought them in
contact with contnsting cultural cores that can be expressed in a space-time matrix.
3.3 Outline OP Chapter 3
In this chapter, the cultural environment of the amaNdzundza will be defined, starting from their
amaNguni origin, and following their evolution through the eMb6, amaHlubi and amaNdebele
ancestors. The amaNdzundza separation from the amaNdebele, their evolution and ultimate
scattering in the tnns-Vaal will be researched, as well as their existence under apartheid.
Throughout this, the cultural environment of the people will be reconstructed, and a space-time
matrix drawn up to express these cultural interactions.
3.4 PrcHistory: amaNguni Origin
amaNdebele ya amaNdzundza oral tradition holds that they moved to Emhlangeni4' (district
Randfontein) from Lundini, their settlement in the Quatlhamba (Drakensberg)." Quatlhamba is
known to be the ancient eenter of the eMbo -arnaNguni people. The exact position of Lundini is
not laown.
The amaNdebele is thus a splinter group of the amaNguni people. The amaNguni, with the
baSotho, baVenda and baTswana people constihite the main abaNtu (Bantu)-speaking peoples of
South Africa, who together with the Khoikhoin and San make up the bulk of the native South
African population. The abaNtu peoples are relatively late amvals on the South Afncan scene,
their exact amval from the north of the country still being an enigma (see figure 2b-d). Whereas
there seem to be parallels between baSotho, baVenda, 'Tsonga and the ancient civilizations
Morne Fourle
Fig. Zc Mouements or the amaNgunl in south Rfrica
Flg. 2d Mouements or the abaNtu in Southern Ilfrica
Morne Fourie 1999 Memes in amaNdzundza Architecture
Fig. 3 Bryant's Map of KwaZulu.Na ta1
showing the area inhablted by the eMbo
-iuia~nuaydaivai-
Fig 4a The Space-Time ~ a t r ioxf the amddtundza world (where necessitated by the hck
of space, some prejxes were droppedfrom the text in the matrix)
-





Morne Fourle 1999 MBmes ln omaNdzundza Archiloclure
between the Limpopo and the Zambezi Rivers, the nmaNguni do not resemble any goup further
north of their territory in either lnnguage or tradition, except those that post-date their nmvalM.
3.4.1 The nmnNguni9s Gcucsis
Related groups
baSotho
baTswann
Tsonga
Southcm amaNguni
TongaamaNguni
nmnNdzundui baPedi KwaNdcbele (apartheid)
Citydwellers Whitecities
Famers Famis
Figure 46: Laput sbowing Ilte ewlurion of the araNLzndro ,nilieu
Ndwandwc
Mtonga
Ngwanc
Mkize
Mnin Group
abnNtu +
amaNguni
+
Trkela amaNgunl +
rMb6
+
nmalllubl
Neighbors
KhoiSan
KhoiSan
KhoiSan
KhoiSan
Place of residence
from Central Africa
crossing the Zambezi
to the eut coat ofSouth Africa
uBombo
Tonga
KhoiSan
baSotho
DrakcnsbergiLundini
The early amaNguni could be distinguished as to speak pure isiNguni, and those who reflect
baSotho and 'Tonga influence use rekela5' in their speech.52 The tekela amaNguni lived between
the Tukela and Mzimkhulu Rivers in Natal, and the pure amaNguni south of the Mzimkhulu and
north of the Tukehu
Scrutinizing Thcal, Soga and Bryant's Accounts
According to Theal, the peoples along the southeastern coast are so "closely related to each other
in language and customs that they must have formed a community by themselves, or perhaps a
single tribe, at no distant time.Y" He dates their movements as no more than three centuries ago.
Wilson points out, though, that this construct is based on a single assumption, which was taken
over by Walker and Soga, and has become a legendary basis for South Afncan history ever
sincesS. They al1 believe that the eMb6 amaNguni were the same people as the Mumbos north of
the Zambezi River. Both the Mumbos and the Mazimba formed a group who attacked the
Portuguese at Tete and Sena in 1570. Theal writes:
The Mumbos of the Portuguese are to a certainty the Abambo of more recent histo ry... A
section of the Abambo must have directed its match towards the south some time between
1570 and 1590 ... The Abambo at length reached the valley of the Tugela River, in what is
now the colony of Natal, where they formed ~ettlements.~~
Soga's construct is even more elaborated, leaving one at odds as to his sources:
... The Aba-Mbo (Mumbos) ... cross(ed) the Zambesi. Those who got over cominued their
movement southwards, crossed the Sabi River, and settled down for a time between thnt
river and the Limpopo. This position they reached about 1575. (By now), a period of about
fifteen years elapsed. They moved very leisurely, resting by the way, probably breaking up
the ground and raising crops, then moved on again. Here they must have remained for
nearly hvo generations, ... until in 1620 they had reached their final destination, Northern
NataLs'
In mith, al1 we know is that the Mumbos lived on the north bank of the Zambezi River in 1592.
that there was a kingdom called Vambe in Natal in 1589, a great chief called Bambe a little way
south of Lourenco Marques in 1593, and Emboas on the Natal coast in 1686.%
Wilson calls Theal's (and thus Soga's) accounts "...mumbo-jumbo," while she refers to Bryant's
account as "...much more cogent ..." The only problem she finds with Bryant's account is the
c h r o n o l ~H~e~ a~ss~um. e s that the amaNguni migrated south at the time of the oldest ancestor in
the oral tradition, and dates the lifetime of that nncestor by ealculnting the generations in the
genealogy. not tnking in nccount thnt gcnealogies usually get telescoped, and that some ancestor's
names are forgotten. Van Wnrmelo is less enthusiastic conceming Bryant's account. He writcs:
... The massive volumes of Bryant and of Soga havc not only laid a groundwork that can
neither be done over again nor undone nor ignored, ... (They eame) to conclusions
impossible to reconcile, they have shown thnt as regards (ama)Nguni origins we are up
against a fundamental and intractable problem. The theories hitherto put forward nppear to
me not worth repenting here. They are fanciful and do not mcet the case. (They are) equally
uncritical theoriesm
The author, acknowledging the shortcomings in the chronology of Bryant's construct, and the fact
that it is probably only reliable in as far as the amaNguni (his specialty people) are concemed,
describes it furthcr. It is intended as a starting point, as to introduce the eMb6 and specifically the
amaHlubi, whose genealogy according to Bryant's account is what informs our knowledge of the
amaNdebcle.
a Bryant's Theory on the Origin of the amaNguni
Bryant reconstructs the amaNguni ancient paste' as follows: The Khoi-San people inhabitcd the
whole sub-continent below the Zambezi River. The amaNguni mignted from the north and not
being able to cross the Zambezi River (which was a mile wide at its narrowest) with their cattle,
slowly migrated to its source (see figure 2c-d). Once crossing the river (approximately a 1000
years ago) they came in contact with the Khoi-San, with whom they intennamed (hence the clicks
in the isiNguni speech). They kept migrating south, until they eame to the north-western region of
the trans-Vaal (the upper Limpopo River region), where the group split in two:
1. The so-called 'pure amaNguni' (refemng to the amaNguni before their scattering into many
difirent and inter-manying groups) migated to the south-eastem corner of the trans-Vaal
region, where they broke in two again, namely into the Xka (amaxhosa or Southem
amaNguni. here referred to as 1.1) and the Ntungwa (1.2) groups (c. 1500). The Southem
amaNguni moved south in two groups: the Tembo who mignted against the Coast, and the
Modem amaXhosa who migrated past the Drakensberg, afier which they reunited south of the
modem Kwazulu-Natal. From the Ntungwa later sprang the amaZulu, the 'Kumalos, etc.
2. In the meantime, an alien people (Bryant thinks the Venda-Katanga) joint the amaNguni that
stayed behind at the upper Limpopo.
While in the process of inter-mariage, a second group (Tekela-Ngunis-2.1) crossed the
Limpopo (late 16th cent~ry)'a~n d migrated seawards. Before reaching the coast, they split in
two once more. The one group (2.1.1) wheeled southward, from about the Komati River, and
occupied for a time the area between the Lebombo Mountains and the sea south of modem
Maputo (Mozambique). Here they became known as the abaMbo or aba-s-eMbo (they were
still here when the Portuguese first traversed these parts at the end of the 16th century, and
were named vaMbe by the latter). The second group (2.1.2) mignted towards the sea, when
they came into contact with the Tonga, with whom they intermaried. They then headed
southwards, dong the coast through modem Kwazulu-Natal. They settled in the upper Tukela
district as the Tonga-Nguni, amongst whom we find the Mtetwa, the Lala, and the Debe groups.
The amaNguni who stayed behind (2.2) mixed with the Venda-Karanga newcomers (who
outnumbered them), to such an extent that a new language was given birth to, namely sesotho.
They became known as the baKoni, such as the bahrutse, baKwena, ba-ma-Ngwato and
baNgwaketsi.
The greatest shortcoming of this account is its chronology regarding the 1st group of people,
generally known as the baSotho-baTswana. Breutz tells us that the baKwena and the baHumtse
entered the trans-Vaal behveen 1300 and 1450 (1989:6-7; 1350-1400:4) via Botswana. This
information he collected in 1936 amongst baHumtse informonts.
3.4.2 The amaHlubi-amaNguni9s eMb6" Genesis (Bryant's Construct)"
Who were the eMb6 people? As seen earlier, the Tekela-amaNguni people (Bryant's construct:
2.1.1), who settled in (what then became known as uBomb6), the country behveen the Lubombo
range (the locative form eluBo1nb6) and the coast became known as the abaMb6 or aba-s-eMbd
(vaMbe in Portuguese--see figure 2c). They still inhabited this country at the end of the 16th
century. The veMbe was known to the Portuguese in 1550 as 'dom south', this being the latest
date of their amval below the Lubombo. An old eMb6 informant told Bryant that they came to this
country from ':..lapa indoda iii i~gasoinan entonrbi, ibe ibebeza njengambuzi. .. " (freely translated
as: 'there beyond the inKomati river'--tributary of the Crocodile or Manyisa, entering Delagoa
Morne Fourle 1999 MBmes in arnaNdzundza Archileclurs
Bay)?' Their most prominent ancestral name is Dlamini 1 (d. 1527). Bryant argues Dlamini to
have been their chief during their travels from beyond the Nkomati River to uB0rnb8.~ He
identifies Mhlanga and Musi (amaNdebele fathers) as the son and grandson of Dlamini?'
6 1 Ngwane 1 c. 1491
7 1 C--eh..is-a 1 c-.. -1-5 -09.
8 1 Dlamini 1 1 c. 1527
Figure 5: The Clriefs of the eMbbpeople,from their gettesis Io their iltigratioir to uBo11tb6 durittg
the rule of Dlantini (adaptedfroni Bryattt)
Mkize 1 Dlamini (h'atal) 1 amaHlubi
Dlamini 1 += c. 1527 Dlamini 1 + c. 1532 Dlamini (c. 1630?)
- - --
Figure 6: The Cliiefs of the eMb6peoples. during their stay at uBon1b6 (adapted /rom Bryant)
r Bryant's Account of the eMbbls Migration to Quatlhamba (the
Drakensberg)
From here they migrated as group, some entering modem Swaziland and Norîhem KwaZulu-
Natal, some went as far as the modem Vryheid and Utrecht districts, and othen yet crossed the
Mzinyati (Buffalo) river. Here they became known as the Mb8, or eMb8.= Bryant gives the
members of the eMb8 as follows:
Morne Fourle 1999 MBmes III amaNdzundza Archileclum
... The ema-Langeni (in their two branches, the Ngwanes in Swaziland, and the Mtongas,
seawards of the lower Lubombo), the Nwandwes

thanx Mr Hlubi i will in time read your long post, you always post sensible things.

Mthakathi.....thanks for the compliment. I would advise you to go to the link i provided where u can dowload the whole doc as the formationg here is not good....alternatively you can give me ur e-mail addr (via a private message) where i can just forward you the document.

It's a very intereting article. I have read it so many times

Hi Guys,

it's been a long time since i had my say in this forum.....but as you might know....i've been busy here at work.....!

i invite everyone to go to this link and see what amaHlubi do and how proud they are of their culture.....you will also find Photo's of King Lnagalibalele II whos is the the current monarch of the nation.

here is the link http://www.facebook.com/photo_search.php?oid=6254506963&view=all

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6254506963

Uyindoda mnumzane, i just browsed through your face book, its interesting.

Ngiyabonga Mthakathi wezindaba(but awunolunga lapha kimi)......lol

My aim is to let the ppl know the truth....and be aware of what is happening......ppl can talk and talk but u can never change HISTORY. I am a Hlubi and proud of that and will never pay allegiance to another King, never...Finish and Klaar.......some ppl believe that this is a revolt against the Zulu Kingdom.....but in actual facts it's not other than a Tribe wanting to get the recognition they deserve.....there's nothing wrong with correcting the wrongs that were done by the previous white government.....we are a very mature nation here : we can't fight sodwa as Africans........we love the Zulu's and they also respect us.....and most of them know the Truth.......so those who make this noise are just uninformed and know little about the African History.

Other ppl think that this is a new claim.....but in actual fact it's not......The Ndebele, Mpondo, Swazi and other Royal states in Africa recognise King Langalibalele as a King not a Chief as he has ober 20 Chiefs all over SA paying allegiance to him......!

Am so glad that you tried to set the record straight here Hlubi,
yazi what I dont understand is people who are fighting against us, why?
we are not asking for anything from them!
Hlubi's know who they are and will never change no matter what, so why cant they just mind their own business and get on with their lives instead of of trying to pull down our Kingdom; which they will not be able to; they tried before and even took our King "Ingonyama" in to improsonment but hey look at us now we bounced back and we will forever do.
Give it up you all out there, we are the greatest, we were ages ago, still are and forever will be and we dont need to prove that to anyone!

Hlubi KaNdlela's posts rank among the most brilliant in this site. Interestingly some people here who are Matlanders do not know that the immediate core surrounding Mzilikazi's kingdom were Hlubi through and through. The Hadebes, Dlodlos / Mpangazithas nabo Ndlela - (bakhona ekhaya) among others, were powerful and influential in Mzilikazi's kingdom. AmaKhumalo respected and trusted the military prowess of Amahlubi who were commanders of some of Mzilikazi's strongest regiments. Dingane got a thorough beating (twice) by Mzilikazi. The leadership capabilities of Amahlubi can not be questioned.

Some of us due to ignorance may be tempted to believe that AmaZulu ruled over everything else. The defeat of Dingane proves that that was not the case. AmaXhosa also say they were never defeated by AmaZulu. I do not doubt the excellent Zulu battle skills but it seems they were dealt a major blow by Mzilikazi's departure. I would support the emergency of a Hlubi nation and Matlanders have a sound reason for doing so. Why? On one hand, it creates a balance of power among nations. On the other the name Matabele, while "accepted" seems to need rebranding. That brand can be Hlubi or something else. I know this will provoke attacks from hornets.

It certainly matters what people are called and I am not going to stand in anybody's way if they wanted self - determination. This forum is about democracy. Hlubikazi is right in expressing disgust at those who are anti - Hlubi. Recall that when people are determined to get their project going, nothing will stop them. God had to confuse humans with languages when he saw that they were determined with building a tower that would reach out to Heavan. Crazy...crazy beings. let the Hlubi launch their nation while Matlanders concentrate on shona bashing that will yield nothing. Hlubis, please invite me for a braai

Ngikutshayela ihlombe ngolwazi lwakho ngalokhu. Mina bengivele ngisazi oDlodlo no Hadebe bengamahlubi. Nansi ingqobe engizoliphakela zona. Akelibale lokhu: http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/0/7/2/4/7/p72475_index.html

omnyama

Kuyancomeka ukuzimisela kwakho Ndlela.
Ngizothatha isikhashana ukuze ngifunde ama-post wakho, made.