Im happy that Thabo has been forced to step down because he was the sole causer of zimbabwe problem. He should have told mgabe to step down ages ago than to continue with his quiet deplomacy that brought misery to millions of abantu basekhaya. Now we are living in foreigh lands just because of one man.

Good riddance!!! That man was out of touch with the peoples' opinoins! Both in South Africa and the rest of the Southern African region, regarding Zimbabwe of course. Hopefully this spells the complete end for Mugabe as well, and pave the way for rebuilding and possibly reconciliation between our Ndebele, Khalanga, Shona, Manyika and Chewa peoples! If that doesn't work, well, there's always Mthwakazi to look upto as as a last resort!

I think that is a bit of an exaggeration.

The so called zimbabweans are a disgrace, they are quick to blame their faults on other people. Would you ever take anyone seriously who says that the zim problem was caused by Mbeki? This is sheer madness. Zimbagweans were supposed to fight for themselves, how come they wanted Mbeki to adopt a radical stance whilst they couldn't take a radical stance themselves. Some say he was out of touch whilst he resided over historic economic growth.

Sanibonani bafowethu, ngibonge sisaphila ngoba nakhu nathi sizawadla anhlamvana ekubeni oS'thenjwa nabanye besishiyile.
Mina ngingu Skhotha, ngiyingxenye kaKhongolose (ANC), I applaud uMzizi for what he has achieved and hope he will continue to go where no other African leader has gone.
To say uMbeki was "forced out" of his position is quite childish and politically immature. The position of President belongs to the party and not an individual. I am of the position that to be forced out uMbeki would have had to have resisted the NEC decision which he didn't.
uMbeki has always been uMbeki no more no less, he has been an exemplary leader so far and I really hope he doesn't change any time soon.
To top it off he hasn't done like a lesser man and put oil in the well but has chosen to exit in the "gentlemanly" way.
Love him or hate him if you are objective you wil give the man a standing ovation.

whatever the reasons for his demise are, the real problem for SA and southern africans is cronyism and comradeship.
1. how do you justify a party not parting ways with a president who denies the existance of AIDS, when 3500 people die from it everyday?
2. how do you justify keeping MPs who defraud the state?
3. how do you justify keeping the minister of health who peddles beatroot as an alternative to ARVs.?
4. how do you justify keeping the police commisioner who is a mafioso?
5. how do you justify voter buying through "child grants" when its crystal clear that the recepients(parents) are spending it on themselves?
6. how do you expect the oppressed to fight for themselves alone? did you do it alone? didn't it take you more than 90 years to fight apartheid?

skhotha, are the above points attributes of an exemplary leader?
do you suggest a standing ovation for such a leader?

i think if he had taken a hard line approach, mugabe would have been history long ago not became a clone of that north korean dictator with zim a closed-collapsed-secretive state.
personally i think he he has evolved into the latter because of mbekis softline approach(NOTE: other southern african countries are nothing but villages with little if any influence)

Mina angiyiqondi kahle ipolitiki ye SA but from the little I have seen these past 2 years ngimethulela isigqoko uMbeki. Lamaphutha laye ulawo kodwa he did a good job. The new leadership is not perfect either but they also should be given a chance. They will be strong in other sections and weak in others. They should have let him finish his term though.

I also applaud SA for knowing when to change a leader and for showing future leaders that leaders can be changed. That is democracy.

I also applaud SA for knowing when to change a leader and for showing future leaders that leaders can be changed. That is democracy. [/quote]

i wish ukuba kwenzakale kwelakithi. just imagine mgabe giving his last day speech as the president on tv?

Ngivumelana lawe lapha Mtakababa liqiniso leso, into oyibhalile iyakha futhi inengqondo. Wonke umuntu unamaphutha akhe, they should have let have let him finish his term and let people decide wether they like him or not ngamavote qha.

Mpume, mtakababa, ngiyakuzwa. Ngivumelana nawe impela ukuthi cronysm is a challenge eMzansi. Kodwa ngibona sengathi kukhona lapha ophambuka khona.
1) From my recollection the erstwhile President of the republic stated that " HIV doesn't cause AIDS". I don't deny that he might have said what you say he said but the above is what I remember as the spark of his "denialist" status. However I might feel about Mbeki's denial of the relationship between HIV and AIDS I totally understand how he came to that conclusion. There is a recognised, though unpopular and probably highly theoretical, view that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. (Google it )
2) I think that dependent on the severity of the "fraud" some MP's have lost their jobs. I concede though that in an ideal world all employees of the state would honest and wouldn't take a pencil home for their grand children.
3) Believe it or not diet plays an important role in the health of AIDS affected people. If we can't provide ARV's to the nation what should be done? Should we say " Sorry, ARV's are the only thing that can help"? No, you must let people know about the African Potato, vegetables etc.
4) When was Selebi found guilty? Do you think everything is as it seems?
5) Where do you get this from? Are you a child receiving a grant that your parent is using for herself or are you the parent? How much is it now? For every story you might have of the grant nor working I can give you ten! Try me!
6) What are you talking about? i can't recall a country where there are freedom fighters attacking state run facilities etc. I haven't heard of these people being shown the door by the SA government.
Again I say stand up and applaud a great African leader of a great African country.

MBEKI'S GONE? HALELUYAAAAA!
THAT'S 1 DOWN, 2 TO GO!
ZIMBABWE'S MUGABE AND EGYPT'S MUBARACK! WE NEED LEADERS WHO TAKE THE CONSIDERATIONS OF THE PEOPLE, BEFORE THEY MAKE DECISIONS THAT SAVE THEIR OWN CIRCLES AT OUR EXPENCE!
DEMOCRACY IS ONE GOOD THING TO COME INTO AFRICA FROM THE WHITE MAN, AND IT IS OUR DESTINY TO EMBRACE IT!
MBEKI HAS TREATED OUR PEOPLE LIKE A TOY! TALKING ABOUT- A FULL CONFRONTATION AND ISOLATION OF MUGABE WILL 'UPSET AND PROVOKE THE DICTATOR', IS UTTER NONSENCE!
I KNOW THAT RATIONALITY WILL RETURN TO OUR AFRICAN LEADERSHIP SOONER THAN THE WESTERN WORLD THINKS,AND WE CAN BECOME SELF-SUSTAINING EVENTUALLY WITHOUT ANY HANDOUTS FROM ANYONE!

skhotha, 6. palestine, mbeki(& mandela) told the palestines that they will not offer them reciprocal support, and that they should negotiate with Israel!!
5. where i work from (kwaMakhutha, amanzimtoti, umgababa, umkomaas, scottburgh, umzinto ie durban/south coast) i regulary encounter elders(receiving old age grants) tired of the ANC(GOVT) policy of giving their children (ie those with children) child grants where as it is them (grandarents) who are effectively taking care of the grandchildren whilst their mothers use the money to do their hair etc etc
4. by virtue of dismising ZUMA mbeki should have also dismissed SELEBI
3. are you suggesting that SA, africa's richest country cannot afford ARV's??
2. we agree on this one though i think YENGENI should have been fired!!
1. anyone who doesn't believe that HIV causes AIDS should be executed, he doesn't belong to this world!!!!

Mpume,
1) I believe that everyone has a right to their opinion. I have difficulty when they want to pass that opinion as fact based on a vaccuum. The theory that HIV doesn't cause AIDS is based on a scientific argument made by well educated people in their field. (My assumption based on the bio of the people) For you to pass sentence on them is a bit disturbing, why do you feel this way?
3) Yes, I am suggesting that SA can't afford to give all HIV+ people the ARV regime they desire. I believe a call was made as to how this would be roled out dependent on viral load and geographical location i.e. some hospitals have/ had the programme and some don't.
4) I agree with you that it seems as if Selebi received a more lenient treatment. Why would this be? He is a Mbeki cronie, he made a better argument as to why he shouldn't be fired, Mbeki took a learning from the Zuma episode, I don't know do you?
5) I am glad you work in the sphere of "uMkhumbi wokunethezeka". You have no doubt heard about the roadshow held by the KZN Dept of Social Development in conjunction with Home Affairs and SASSA (grants). They educate people on what their departments do for them. If your elders were proactive, uBhungane and his people would have told them how they can change the guardianship of their grandchildren so that the correct person receives the grant.
6) I am not a great political fundi, can you elaborate on the Palestine/ ANC issue?

1. actually, i think i was an emotional hypocrite,in his time gallileo said that the earth goes around the sun but no one believed him! maybe your guys are correct in that the generally accepted theory that HIV causes AIDS is wrong hence we struggle to find a cure bcoz we are looking in the wrong place!!
3. what is cheaper a proper diet or ARV's? if the richest country in africa cannot afford ARV's, i am concerned about its priorities!!
5. there should be more awareness on the "change of guardianship" possibility, generally the dept of social dev, is concerned with issuing grants!!
i was speculating that they are tying people into the dependency syndrome so that they will always vote for them, now they have increased the ages of children eligible for grants effective april next year(voting time!!!)

Congratulations Mpume, you have reached the stage where you have become your own worst enemy. When you are able to find reasons for why you don't deserve anything without the help of an enemy, you have hit rock bottom. Let me explain my observation.
The Social Development roadshows provide a forum for anyone, time permitting, to seek assistance on any topic. When the service providers on site aren't able to assist, the client is referred to the correct department. Hence the department of Home Affairs and SASSA are permanent partners with the department of Health being regular contributors in the outlying areas. I have seen this personally in different areas. These roadshows have been constant since the ANC took the portfolio in KZN. Why would you assume that they are a political ploy? We can no longer have visionary leaders who seek to create a better life for all because it means that we want their frightened votes?!
How much do you think ARV's cost? How many people would need to be provided for? Do you really think that the government is holding back on ARV's out of spite or are you waiting for the elections to see the ARV programme being roled out?
No you were not an emotional hypocrite when you slated the scientists that hold a different view of the HIV/ AIDS relationship, you just failed to think.

this is africa my man, the govt is holding the society at ransom through issuing these grants(especially child grants). it is nothing but a political ploy. they were meant to reduce poverty but there are many better ways of reducing poverty, like giving food aid not hard cash! people are having babies to access grants, this is the dependency syndrome in full swing. child grants have never worked anywhere, even in countries where corruption is not tolerated, like israel. we should learn from other pples mistakes, not commit the same mistakes!!!

on ARVs,beetroot-garlic-manto objected to having them issued at govt hospitals only to be upstaged by her deputy whilst she was being de-livered. thats when things started to look up!!

actually i realised that they do not DISPUTE the existance of AIDS, but they dispute the cause, you call this failing to think?

I believe that you and I are for the same cause.
I believe that we are in favour of a free and prosperous Africa.
I believe we are for the betterment of our respective people.

Bearing the 3 statements above please elaborate on your posting. Are you saying that for 4 years the SA government will do nothing and only act in the year before the elections in order to stuff their pockets for the next 4 years and repeat the cycle?
Are you saying that because we are Africans we are too stupid to recognise when we are being had?
Where do you get the info regarding the grants and the subsequent childbirth? Is it an hypothesis or do you have a study that has identified this?
Let us bring solutions to Africa and not be self destructive.

Mpumelelo
My brother could you please shed some on one issue here, are you against Child Grants or are you against the people who misuse those child grants, this could be parents or politicians? If you are against the Child grants what are you advocating for? and if you are against the latter what do you propose should be done???

perpetuating a legacy of apartheid, which these child grants are, is bound to bring down the revolutionary movement the ANC is. whereas the rest of the world is doing away with them, the ANC is busy making more people eligible, sinking them deeper into the dependency hole.
1.6 billion rands per month in child grants can be better spent on real economic empowerment.what people need are jobs!jobs!jobs!jobs!
school dropouts use these childgrants as a source of income!our child grants have been cloned into a version of the european birth allowance, an incentive to give birth!paradoxically they are perpetuating poverty.
as long as the real fundamentals(jobs,jobs,jobs) are not addressed, its a matter of time before this child grant bubble comes crushing in our faces.
with its base being the poor, the ANC is doing everything to make sure it retains it, by making more eligible for grants, under the guise of fighting apartheid inequalities and poverty. grants will never end poverty, how many people have stopped getting these grants because they are no longer poor?in fact they are complaining its too little they want more!!?.on the other end jobs will, land empowerment will, provision of no-strings-attached-capital will, subsidising start-up costs will, tax relief will. imagine if the receipients of child grants were given 10HA of land+inputs+training. most of them will flee into prostitution.lazy bitches, they are now used into getting things easily, they will vote against the ANC!alternatively those who remain will prosper and cease to be dependent in the near term.these are real women who are being raped by the govt policy of spoonfeeding through grants. they need real empowerment not 200 rand/child bribes!

the govt should put a freeze on the date of those eligible, eg those born after eg june 2009 should not be eligible to make sure that after 14 years child grants are eliminated.

for the record i have no qualms against undocumented-HIVravaged-child-headed-families getting a raw deal from home affairs in their pursuit of these grants whilst the undeserving civil servants, through mbeki-era-institutionallised-corruption, laugh all the way to the bank or to their offices after getting suspended sentences!!
aluta continua