Inhlanzi ishelwe amanzi. Ikhwibi (inkukhu) linqunywe umlomo. The impostor is exposed. The bogus priest is publicly seen for who he really is. The emperor is naked. The self appointed spin doctor of Mpisi ducks Jazi's tough public questions & instead, like umgulukudu ofake i-balaclava, invites uJazi into a dark corner. How many of us will he drag into that dark alley & "sort us out" ebumnyameni? Ngiya phinda futhi: ayi dumi kanje ma izo suka!

uShamase wangempela! Umqwashisi - impohlo engenankinga! Igcokama likaNdonga. Ngiyakubingelela njalo nsizwa yakithi, ngalesi isikhathi sekhisimusi ngithanda ukudlulisa izilokotho ezinhle kuwena, ngithi Ube nokhisimusi owuskukela kunye noncibijane onentokozo.

I am sure that you are resorting to empty and uncritical slogans about the top-down, or down-top approach to running organisations. I am not aware of any organisation which in reality has a down-top approach, even the most modernist Brazillian organisations which purport to employ the horizontal and circular structures are not immune to the realities of running the businesses or organisations in a conventional way. In any organisation there are some prerequisite for survival and success, the organisation has to have vision, mission, strategy and should have operational capacity. Somebody must have an idea or vision which he or she thinks that would be beneficial to the people, that individual will then articulate his ideas to other people. If a few people buy into his ideas, then those very people will be his disciples, who will then spread the good news. Therefore the notion of a down-up approach is effectively a nullity in practice. What is needed is to put checks in those organisation, to usher in some semblance of democratic dispensation, whereby the masses will be give greater rights and autonomy in influencing the strategic direction of the movement. I have my own misgivings for the MPC but it does not help for me to criticise from the peripherals. I am happy, for you are aware that the old man is a goon, but what confuses me is your unwavering belief in whatever he says. It seems to me that you are one of those who envy this man, who think that he is educated and knowledgeable. Let us not resort to textbook and political mantra about the top-down approach, let us be critical and "innovative" and exercise some originality in our analysis. I am not sure what is going on, this unlike you, it appears that you now resort to sweeping statements a lot, what happened to your well-thought-out, well-articulated and superb approach to doing business?

Sibambimidlelo, don't let your heart rule your head & your hope to prevail over common sense. Politics is different from business. Abalandeli benhlangano yepolotiki march to a completely different drum than aba sebenzi kwi bhizinisi. One man can form a company & employ millions, kukhale isicathulo sakhe yedwa, inkampani idlondlobale. But ayikho inhlangano yepolotiki ephumelela nge top-down politics. This is why kunama 1 man & his dog flops like PUMA, ZAPU Madlela, ZAPU 2000, ZAPU Nkala (l think it was a moron from Nkayi), ZAPU Siwela, ZUM, UANC kaMzorewa, the still-born Mpisi, Mavambo-Kusile etc. These formations failed coz they were not inspired by the spirit of the people on the ground. Uquqaba always wants to own a mass movement & choose leaders they know & trust. Leaders that emerge right among lolo quqaba, fortified by ukuzabalaza side by side everyday - fostering mutual trust. Uquqaba alufuni kutshelwa - they resist being subordinate to self annointed leaders that seek to invite them to join into abanga yazi ihloseni ngempela. Uquqaba are always wary & suspicious of the motives of ama top-down political leaders. They question everything coz they doubt the openness & honesty of these top-down politicians. Buka how Makoni was labelled a Zanu decoy. Same applied to Tekere & Zum. Buka manje nakhu sidikadikana no Mzekezeke ll (read Kirth Dube) weMpisi yakhe efile.

On the contrary Sibambamahawu's analysis is spot on so much as we understand the role of shareholders in an organisation or company. The shareholders and employees are different stakeholders. Even then employees have rights too and can be represented.

So really MPC has no obligation to non-members particularly if they adopt a certain tone. They well could be MDC (or any other competing political body) officials worried about the competition they face for political space in Matabeleland. Just like a firm like Tesco will have detractors from ASDA for instance.

So really when we look deeply the arguments on "top down, down up" are like the grand chicken and egg riddle.

Angiqavi knex ngeze politricks kodwa I know ukuthi ipolitricks ziyayi affecta impilo yami ngithanda ngingathandi.

Zamani ma politicians, indoda ngecuya izamile!

Bhudaza, Ube loKhisimusi omuhle mfowethu.Siphide sidibane ngo 2009 sistrong.

Uthi wena iMPC has no obligation to non members........

Akufunde lokhu okubhalwe yileadership ye MPC ku page 1.





Sounds like;

Dear Sir

We sincerely apologise for the serious error in our communication by including your name amoungst the other two lolunye nje uquqaba. Wena kawusi Sgo kodwa bonke banguye.

We have a strategic document for your scrutinity and therefore humbly requests that you accept it as a token of appeasement at this time of Christmas.We are aware that you requested this information in public but ngoba wena u.......

Wu Thixo !!!!ngiyenqena ukuqhubeka ngitolika ngoba kubhaliwe nje.


I tokenism engaka!!! What a Christmas present. I suppose thus political maturity ye MPC.

Bhudaza mfo kunjani. uyibeke so simply mfo uqedile. ngolimi olulula nolucacileyo. futhi nje lamadoda afuna ukushelwa. naleMPC ilunge thu matshi mani. ingcengani ebantwini abaziwa kamhlophe ukuthi abahambisani nezinqumo zokukhulula uMthwakazi. tell them u a not wanted , declined and shut it. we will not kill them as they do to those who differ to them. asifani nabo thina. abaweweme sesiyazi ngabo.

Bantu beNkosi any criticism of MPC should not stretch to any form of total condemnation and any form of exercised redicule. I am not party to such hysterical stuff. We should be objective and point out key issues that are of concern that need addressing. Going beyond such is indeed unpatriotic and destructive. This should distinguish the true critics of this organisation from those who are bent on seeing the anhilation and total destruction of the movement. There is nothing criminal about self determination except in the eyes of the oppressors and subjugators of the vanquished and the oppressed.

I am really surprised as to how the MPC came into this topic titled “Lamhlanje uDabengwa useyini?” What is the motivation for uJazi to bring a topic under the disguise of uDabengwa and then take it upon himself to bully and put down amadonda akhithi azama ukuvuselela uMthwakazi.
UJazi criticises and ridicules MPC for being a cyber political party, yet he is guilty himself of spending more time than anyone on Inkundla. In fact uJazi as far as I can remember, was on Inkundla prior to the ‘cyber’ birth of iMPC. What has Jazi done for Mthwakazi besides his long postings spitting out vernomous anti-Mthwakazi propaganda. I'm very sure those of us that have been in the site long enough will agree with me. I’m not saying it’s wrong for uJazi to have a different view but I’m merely highlighting his cyber history on uMthwakazi.

MPC like any other organization in the world has it problems and challenges. To then take the challenges of MPC, magnify them and then say therefore it is a failure is rather naive. The way I see it, I think it very malicious for some of us to ask MPC leadership to come out in open and "die for what they believe in". This is old-school politics and those that talk about it wouldn't even dare die for their children. That is a fact! Again what is the motivation, Jazi? As a matter of fact uZwangendaba, uDube and Shamase are all out in the open. Yes, they will be challenges but the Mthwakazi secession issue is bigger than any one of us. Who knows we might not see it in our lifetime but at least we can tell our children we tried. To some of our sellout brothers who think MPC is a 3-men organization I say please give us a break. We are here, we are who we are, we believe in MPC, we believe in our cause and we also believe in Mthwakazi!!
Indeed it is very surprising and disheartening to see our very own so-called educated and intelligent people choose to ignore repression by the enemy for financial benefits. When the enemy has used and abused them at the expense of their people and the financial gains obuthengisi are dried up they go back to their own people and say ZAPU this and that!! Who is fooling who? Again, bafowethu what is the motivation?

Enkundleni
Phambili ngomzabalazo. Ibambeni lingayeki. Amacebo angeza. Ulunya vele asihambelani lalo. Uyazi ulunya vele lwadalwa kudaladala lamatshelamatshe engakancwebeki. Luyazakala ulunya luthutsha kude ezintabeni le.
Abantu abakhayo bayaziwa njalo abadingi kutshela muntu ukuthi bazokwakha. Kakho ongabaqambela njalo ethi bayadiliza. There is nothing like we want to silence people. There is nothing here near anything one can call dictatorship. It is not possible anyway to practice dictatorship on an internet forum. Sometimes abantu abadala bayajika bazenze abantwana. Nxa umuntu ezazi yena ukuthi kadilizi okwakhiwa ngabanye yini engamhlupha nje.
Ababhidlizi yibo abale nkinga la, sebezenza bona abakhayo. Criticism constructive or otherwise is not even the issue. The issue is a few individuals who are on assingment to destroy our baby.
As for debating, people have always debated here, differing interests in topics, flourish on this forum daily.
It is the vernom, spite intended to the liberation of Mthwakazi that I strongly oppose.
Those of you saying people , myself or anyone dont want you to air your views, it is not true. Remember you also are not agreeing to their views, why should they agree with you when you have different opinions as you say you are being hated for your different views? Lies,lies, lies. Everyone has a right to air their views here. Killing MPC is what we refuse. Your views are always needful here, its being killed thatwe dont agree with,Simple.

Bafowethu.

Ngilibingelele ngilifisele iKHISIMUSI ENHLE ngithi asibambisaneni umango njalo kumnyaka ongenayo.

MPC has made mistakes before, MPC makes mistakes today, MPC shall make mistakes as it navigates through these rough waters.

Kodwa what we can assure you is that we make those mistakes in a genuine attempt to chart a way as we perceive that will BRING about DIGNITY to our people.

Everything that we do, we do in GOOD FAITH. We make efforts to engage our citizens either as a group or as individuals. It is not SPITE of the other FORUMITES if we invite an individual to discuss any subject with them. These are techniques we percieve will help us put our message across. We beg the citizens of Mthwakazi bear with us. Please do not feel offended.

We shall continue to employ those techniques as some people express themselves well in private whilst others do so in public. This technique has worked wonders for MPC.

SIYALIBONGA LONKE ELISIPHATHISAYO.

Li Zwangendaba.

Zwangendaba ngethemba uyidle kahle ikhisimusi uhlanganele labanye lami ngokunjalo mfowethu ayabongeka amazwi akho ,kodwa mina manje ngibona ingathi sku enough for this year ngeMPC what we need to do now is to have a way forward MPC belong to Mthwakazi not the leaders so ake liyithathe lyise ebantwini phela amacard siyawafuna sifuna ukujoyina leliqembu ,mina ngibona angathi we will waste a lot of time waiting ayihlome ihlasele madoda mina ngilesifiso sokuthi nxa ngihamba ezitaradini egoli ngigqoke isikipa se MPC sizibonakalise ukuthi sikhona umgabedoyi ngeke afe so he needs to know ukthi sekukhona iparty ethize efuna ukuhlukanisa amanzile fish oil ngoba akuhlangani. ake sibashukumiseni madoda.

Our eyes are always open. The mandate will definitely be sought and acquired by MPC when they are on the ground, just like everything else which will be done according to ukuhlela kwe MPC.

Come on man, the issue in question is abantu who just want to kill this party. Those seeking to help whichever way are not part of that.

You are just not a serious man. So unstable in your ways.

I just do not get it man. Why stoop so low. I am happy you are not the official spokesperson for the MPC. I shudder to think to what toilet levels you would drag this party to. You are a simpleton of no substance at all. You are failing to engage us intelligently. Jazi, for example has raised very pertinent issues of stick and carrot, but you chose to ignore him.

We need to peel off emotionalism in this for us to articulate well what MPC stands for. Anything heavily clouded and or pregnant with emotionalism will not get us anywhere.

Uyabona mfo even inhlamba ongi accuse ngazo phambilini, I dont know them, aziphumi kumapostings ami, I mean I dont even know the meaning the words. I thought you said in one of your postings ukhuluma lenyi ndoda, something like "if I may borrow your word" Yini namhlanje susithi yimi engihlambaza ngalawo magama?

Wena ungezwa umuntu ethi cabal lawe suyatsho njalo, ungezwa umuntu ethi stooping low lawe sulingisela, freedom of expression lawe sugijima ngayo, cyberspace "this and that" lawe sunguye lowo. Lithi lingakatshoni ilanga sokunguwe othi "unconditionally support". This is lacking in originality if I may say. You are up and down, cold and hot. This is what I mean mangithi you are unstable in all your ways. You have no idea of your own.

All I ever said to you is that dont destroy MPC.

About the MPC spokesperson, forget about playing that card, I m not falling for it. Thats cheap stuff, you cant fool me.

Uthi wena iMPC ayingene on the ground lami ngiyavuma, layo iyavuma. ON TOP OF THAT I SAID FOR NOW THEY ARE STILL CALLING US TO COME AND BUILD INHLANGANISO. And whats "stooping low" about this?

There are no pertinent issues I m ignoring. I said there has been said "kuqalwa ngokukhasa umntwana engakagijimi" It is a simple equation madoda angazi liphezu kwani?

Ku Baba uZwangendaba



Sekuyacaca. Besesimangaliswa yikudonswa kukaJazi ehohobiselwa ngasese-(strike the shepard and all the sheep will scatter tactic). As if he is our shepard! yet abantu have their genuine concerns, some of which are identintical to what he and others are raising. Simple put , answering him in the public forum may obviously help address issues zabanye abalandeli beMPC. And I agree with you , your tactic does work 'wonders'.

Iyezwakala ke diplomacy yakho. Its reassuaring to realise imithakithiki enje kulinhlanganiso yethu esibhekelele insindiso kaMthwakazi. Kuyabonakala ukuthi kusasa izimoko mazivela iMPC izoyibhula imililo nge khono layo.

Sithengisele li MPC sihlobo, mhlawumbe ingasiza abantu bakithi.

Mthwe
I think it is unwise to continue dignifying your vitriol. I will tell you one thing my friend, predictability is a virtue of a donkey, as Gandhi said. You are so predictable. So you can not expect the same with me. Good luck.

Mtha
Uzwile angitsho.

As for me forget about me, angiqakathekanga, into esingayo yinkululeko. Ma usiza lembono yakho no one has a right to condemn them, those would be your ideas and must be respected as such. Ukudiliza yikho kuphela ozothola ukuthi abantu bayakusola ngoba akulunganga.
Ukuxoxisana kuhle mfowethu, hatshi ukudiliza okwakhiwa ngabanye. Ngiyethemba uyake uyibone iPM'S Question Time. Akula kuthukana lapha, akula kubhidliza okwakhiwa ngabanye. Not that the PM s Question Time is our standard, but surely we can learn something from such things.

.


Mthwe.

Nansi imibono yami ngalo umbhalo wakho ongaphezulu.

As an MPC supporter I think we should let our baby to be examined by people.All babies go through such a process and that should not kill them if they are not meant to die. Some are examined by paediatricians or even neonatologists and others are examined by aunts and uncles. You have seen clan members examining the baby and approving or disapproving on the grounds of flat nose, bone structure, shape of the head , lips, rickets, flat foot, hair texture, skin colour , behaviour etc. Normal babies do not get destroyed by those examinations. They thrive irregardless and will grow to play football with their so called rickets , flat feet or long head.

If you see a baby getting destroyed by any examination you should know that s/he is not compartible with life anyway and therefore let the natural process occur. Being pre occupied by how delicate this baby MPC is will not help us. How about focusing our time and resources in selling the MPC to the people instead of wasting them in ukubhula imililo? Ongafuniyo uyayeka Mthwe but I am not for an ukubhula umlilo markerting strategy because its so draining.

Kuyezwakala lokhu bandla. Nxa umuntu eletha eyakhe ingqondo laye uyalalelwa. Asithathe okuhle kwakhona silahle okungahambisi kahle. UMugabe singamfuzi ngokwala ukusolwa besesisithi osolayo uthunyiwe. Yikho okubulala isizwe, abantu besebezithulela lanxa bekubona usiya engozini ngoba besesaba ukuthi bazaziqalela bangakulimukisa.

JJ
No no no no. Ungangifunzi mtakababa into engingazidliyo. It is simple wethu, indaba le iqonde nta, kayifuni rula, yona yiyo eqondisa irula.
Bonke abahlola umntwana kabamhlole njengoba usitsho. Akusibo wethu engikhuluma ngabo laba. Ngikhuluma ngomuntu oza ethwele isagila eqonde ukuchobodisa ukhakhayi luka nana.

Simply that, not even one who has been misunderstood as such.Singenzi indaba emfitshane kangaka ibende. Unless you dont believe there are such people khona la kuInkundla but I m sorry I do.
Impilo ende kuwe.

Hlaba-1,

Well put m'fethu! Abantu bezagila should never be allowed ukuhlola umntwana for obvious reasons.
I hope in the coming New Year abantu laba bazabeka phansi izagila zabo be sebenze ndawonye leMPC ekuqhubekiseni uMthwakazi. Isikhathi sesiside sibili!

Siyavumelana lapho wakwethu. Hatshi lami angingeke ngivumelane lalowo ofuna ukudiliza.

Africa is affected by one set of evil forces, Dabengwa only presents a segment that addresses narrow minded Africans views, not that he is narrow as a person,or people who see him as a leader are narrow minded no no no. He does does appear through geopolitical lens, or may be through African centered world views.How many of you know fully comprehend Thabo Mbeki not from news bytes[seconds]from [CNN] [BBC][ABC][ FOX NEWS] but in detail scrutinising a man, his origin, his belief system, background, political views, economic views and so on.CNN cannot potray a person in seconds, that is an insight/taste mostly distorted character if the person is not of the neo liberal world views.My point is I bought books about Thabo from right wing to left wing, i know him fairly.He is a typical black African freedom fighter.So Dabengwa is narrow only emerges through alternative choices, rather broad appealing [PAN CENTERED WAYS]Thabo presents a black model not a Ndebele or Shona but a black person based on broad African world views.
I come from that schol of thought not ethincity but African world views presenting all black people no matter your ethnicity, we are all discriminated. Thabo represents that kind of scope not cheap narrow views based on hatred.This website can teach people to people themswelves only if we mature and grow in our world views.Do not conform to views that potray black as portions we are one big fa,ily affected by one set of evils.Shona s are discminated, so we vvea, Xhosa, Tsonga, Yoruba , Jamaicans, Afro Americans, Afro Cubans we are all one big demonized family.

As long as you seek to demean and demonise Ndebeles i will view you and your postings with suspicion. You have not said anything positive about Ndebeles, you seek to portray Ndebeles as tribalistic and narrow-minded, let me assure you here, you will never win. This nation is a great nation with a marvelous and great history. As long as you ignore the discrimination meted on Ndebeles by their Shona brothers and sisters and seek to trivialize and belittle their world-view you must be sure that you will never win.

YEBO MFETHU UNGETHUKI, MINA NGINGUMUNTU WABANTU, NGENKOLO NGILI RASTA ANGIVUMI UNKUBONA UMAFRIKA, EQEMBULUZA UMAFRIKA.
MFETHU NGIYI LUNGA LE PAN AFRICAN ORGANISATION IN EUROPE.
I GROUP YETHU IHLANGAHLANGENE AMA YORUBA, AMA IBO, AMA FANTE, AMA TWI, AMA FULANI, AMADINGO ALL FROM WEST AFRICA.YIMI UMZULU[NGUNI] KUPHELA. LAPHA EKHAYA ASIKHULUMI NGEHLANGA, SI KHULUMA NGE [BLACK CONSCIOUSNESS][PAN AFRICANISM]KWESAMI LAPHA AMA SHONA AYANGI QEMBULUZA MINA ANGINA NDABA NGOBA NGIYAZI IQONDO ZABO ZINCANE.MINA NGIBONA ISIZWE ESINYAMA NJENGE MULI INYE.AFRICA FOR AFRICANS!!!I KNOW WHO YOU ARE AS IN THOUGHT I DEAL WITH SUCH MINDED AFRICANS FROM DAILY BASIS.YOU ARE A VICTIM OF CIRCUMSTANCES , YOUR LONG TROUBLED JOURNEY OF ETHNICITY VIEWS,YOUR COMMON THREAT IS WHITE SUPREMACY MY FRIEND, STATUS QUO, IF I KNEW YOU AS A PERSON ON ONE TO ONE I WILL SEND YOU QUALITY BLACK DATA TO RE-EDUCATE YOU PROPERLY.YOU DONT HAVE TO TRUST WHO I AM, BY CONFORMING TO YOUR VIEWS, I AM MORE DEDICATED TO BLACK CAUSES THAN YOU ARE MY FRIEND, WHETHER YOU LIKE OR DIS-LIKE, MY LIFE HAS BEEN FOR THE BLACK CAUSES, FROM BULAWAYO TO WHERE EVER I AM RIGHT NOW, I WILL DIE FOR AFRICA NOT NDEBELE BUT AFRICANS AS A WHOLE.
I HAVE MET THE TYPE OF SHONAS YOU TALKING ABOUT ACROSS EUROPE AND BRITAIN-AFRICA IN ALL MY TRAVELLS, BUT THAT DOES NOT BREED ME TO HATE PEOPLE BASED ON ETHNCITY, I RATHER RE-EDUCATE THEM PATIENTLY
SINCE I UNDERSTAND IGNORANCE IS BLISS. PROVE THEM WRONG MTHAKAZI
UNGATHUKU NGILIQAWE NGEPHELA

Abedabuko, i really don't know how old you are and how much you know about the history of that god forsaken country. All your lame ideas have been tried before and all have failed because amaTshona can not be trusted. Our beloved hero, the late Joshua Mqabuko Nkomo tried uniting the Ndebeles and Tshonas in order to fight the white man. He taught them ipolitics one of his students was uMgaxa and i don't need to remind anyone how he turned out. The Tshonas turned on Nkomo because he was Ndebele and i remember how they tried to kill him in the early 80s before he escaped to England. They tortured Lookout Masuku and others. Then left them to die like dogs from their wounds. Yet you turn round and call us narrow minded for trying to stay alive and pass-on this language and culture to our children who are born in foreign lands. Don't ever say we are the same people with these animals. Satsha ngeziwula ezinjengawe....