The anti-Ndebele crusade deepens. I wonder how many of these Harare catholics are also MDC? Muntongelakudla, do you suppose these catholics are only Zanu?


A devout Catholic and prominent Shona novelist, Charles Makari, said if the move was not reversed, it was set to have negative implications on the stability of the church, particularly in the greater Mashonaland region.

In a six-page letter he wrote to the Pope’s representative in Harare, Apostolic Nuncio Edward Joseph Adams – who is reportedly of British extraction – Makari said there was need for caution in dealing with the matter.

“If this matter is not resolved logically, the church is likely to disturb the minds of the Shona laity who cannot come to grips with the new reality which forces them to believe that the current Shona clergy are so irresponsible to the extent that two archdiocese in Zimbabwe have to be manned by two ‘responsible’ Ndebele clergy,” he said.

Some Shona Catholics said the appointment overlooked the tribal dynamics that should also inform such decisions, because Shona Catholics were more at home with a leader conversant with their traditions and rituals that are also incorporated into Christian worship.


http://www.africaonline.co.zw/mirror/stage/archive/040718/national18151.html

Oh ya......Kwakuvele kuyingwa ngaphi?

So, lizizwele, the shona catholics cannot come to grips with the reality of being led by a Ndebele Archbishop who invariably will find himself culturally incorrect and compromised among them. This is tribalism being franned against them they say. Heish!

They must be addressed in their language, sing their church songs in their language and be preached to in their language. Anyone else can put up with them or shut up!Uthi kumnandi ukubusa. Uthi kumnandi ukubabanengi? The shona don't think and consider even for a little while that outside of Mashonaland there lives thousands of peoples of various tribal and ethnic origins.Being 80% of the population gives them the ticket to rule as they want! Abakwazi lokuthi in Hwange there are Cotholics who one day could be archbishops for the whole of Zimbabwe.

Pho thina sitshunyayezelwani ngaso, sifundiselwani abantwabathu ngaso, emabhanga sibingelelwa ngaso sesiza siphose siphuphe ngaso!

Mina ngithi bathunyiwa yiZANU. Period....

Shona's are as tribalistic as ever. Look at them, they speak not against Mugabe's tyranny they follow this child of Satan, a devout member of God then rises up and they can not take it. Hatshi, anybody now not convinced total independence of Mthwakazi is needed is one fooling us. Total seccession, otherwise our talents will go to waste. Shona's are good thiefs, that is why the British wanted them to rule Zimbabwe hence Thatcher, that filth of a professor Ranger where and are out to get us.

It is now time for the people especially those priviledged to be the elite due to their luck in life to fight for the oppressed. All struggles begin with the "intellegentsia" all revolutions that is the way it is, because they can see the oppression most vividly because they read. All on this website you are priviledgeed to be an elite, we better work for our people.

These people hae and fear us so much, look at the following website what Nyarota said. Daily news he called a Ndebele empire because it hired 40 Ndebele's or 50 out of 400, this irked Nyarota a so called exposer of Mugabe. Fight Bantu it is tough. Do you think uGogo eNkayi, Plumtree, Binga or Gwanda knows this. You know therefore fight it.

http://www.zimbabwesituation.com/feb4_2004.html

Saduva

Ngiyakuzwa uyakhala njalo ubuza kumina mayelana namaKatolika. Ngizokuphendula ke njengesicelo sakho. Kodwa bandla, azi ukuthi angisingumKatolika!

Lalela lapha dadewethu (noma mfowethu?): asithi mina ngandawothize kwenzeke kusasa uPius Ncube asuswe ePumula diocese ebese kuyabekwa umbhishopi wasesiShoneni laphaya ePumula. Wena ungezwa njani? Ungakweseka lokho na? Ungavuma uthi cha kuhle, kulungile? Ungajabula na ma umbhishopi wasesiShoneni ekhokhela ibandla ngentshumayelo yesiShona ePumula? Ungagculiseka na ma ingane yakho wena izophehlelelwa eKatolika ngesiShona, kwaBulawayo? Will you be pleased to see your loved one’s funeral rites being administered in Shona by a Catholic priest ePumula? Ungajabula wena ma uzoshadiswa ngesiShona kwiKatolika kwaBulawayo?

Bandla, ma ungaphendula lokhu ngengqondo evulekile, engenayo inzondo, then you’ll understand why those Harare people are angry at Ndlovu’s appointment. Bad is bad madoda. Kungani okubi nikwamkela nikushaya indiva ma kwenzeka emaShoneni kuphela?

‘Fair is foul and foul is fair’ (Shakespeare in MacBeth)

‘Never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his moccasins’ (Anonymous)

‘Imikhombe iyenanana’ (Isaga sesiZulu)

uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa.
Inkwali yenkosi.

Inxangiphilile.
KwelikaMthaniya.

Let us not forget that within the Catholics we have people of different political orientation. Everyone knows that Pius Ncube does not agree with Mgo hence the assumption that Ndlovu will back Pius. So this lobbying is coming from those Catholics that believe in Mgo. Tribalism has little to do with this issue. Its more of political orientation. If these Zanu Catholics were assured that Ndlovu will be another Chakaipa we wouldnt even be having this discussion.

Mntongenakudla

Ukuthathaphi ukuthi uNdlovu akasazi isitshona? During the training of the priests, they are moved from one seminary to the other. the seminaries are strategically located such that by the time one is ordained he would be familiar with the different cultures and languages in the country.

Mina ngingumKhatholika ngakho ke imikhuba enziwayo emtshadweni lasemfeni ngiyayazi. All I can say is that the presiding priest or bishop just has to conduct the mass relevant to the occassion.

I-funeral mass is standard whether you are in Jambezi or Uzumbamarambakufunga. So there is little a priest can do to violate the "cultures". This case is purely political.

For decades we as Catholics have had to put up with being preached to by white foreign priests and bishops. How many missions in Mashonaland are headed by German priests? How many foreign white Archbishops have presided over Harare and Mashonaland? Did we so much hear a voice of discontent over their ability to understand the Shona culture?

Not to my recollection.

mthwakazi
laba abantu bayagula.let them taste the strength of their medicine.leyi yinto ekade beyiyenza for the past 24 years.abantwana bethu bafundiswa isi shona left and right.mina engifuna ukukwazi yikuthi bebezakuthini uma bekukhethwe umlungu hence this is not political but yinkalakatha ye tribalisim.

Bazonya

Ngabe kufakwe umlungu bebezakwenza into efanayo. Umlungu would also be perceived to sympathise loPius. Worse still he would be labelled a Tony Blair godknowswhat! So the bottom line is, its a political issue.

Bafowethu,

Shona's have once again proved they can never mix with the Ndebele nation,to some who have been strugling to convince us that inter marriages between the two tribes do fuction,I hope this lives to reflect the nightmare scenerio you have to live with the rest of your lives.

A shona is shona akutshintshi,Be it enkonzweni tribalism is engineered by them.

There is one revival which is not Catholic from Zimbabwe with small branches all over this earth,mostly comprising of zimbabweans abroad,you will see that within that church all pastors are to be trained in Harare even though some of them are from outside Zimbabwe.

The idea is to cause them to all know sishona so as to enable them to spread the shona domination all over.
Gentleman this has not gone well with the Bulawayo church base as staunch Ndebeles challenged the idea thus the man of God there who is Ndebele/shona a very good son of God has refused to bow down to the idea and raised his own trained Ndebele Bulawayo Matabeleland Pastors.

This has infuriated the Harare base that sees itself as the headquarters of the revival but very disorganised full of squambles and tribalism.
During Bid conventions held in Bulawayo,them shonas from harare dominate and fiddle with the sound system so that Shona interpreters are purely heard and the Ndebele one is left echoeing on the backgrounds,this may sound funny but its true,Shona songs dominate,shona culture is planted through dances and etc.

Udaba nantu ke lapha bafowethu laba abantu bafuna okhanda tshisa njengami,I will not tithe under such circumstances,will not offer any money to build such a church nor will dance to their gospel at all.
Into nansi uthola amathole kamthwakazi athenjiweyo sekuyibo abathandaza ngesishona behlabela langaso...yintwe njani ke leyo!

What makes a shona say they cannot understand isiNdebele that cannot make a Ndebele not understand Shona.Bantu bakithi lets stop talking that filth and speak our own,if you can't here my language its simple as A,B,C,D, @ONGAFUNIYO KAYEKELE'

They will never win this battle never not in my lifetime.
-------------------------------------------------
Thrower-Majikijela
One who sees the storm coming before the clouds appear.
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Bantu benkosi! kanti uNdlovu uyakuyetshumayela kumbe as head of the church his main role is that of Chief Administrator? Isilungu yena kasazi? Don't they conduct some of their services in English? I know they do kubo Mt Pleasant and in town? Akutolikwa eRoma? Amabandla amanengi kuyatolikwa bantu.

It seems that they will never be any unity amongst the Ndebeles and the Shonas as long as they have this attitude of theirs. It’s very disturbing to note that this friction between the two tribes as found its way to in the church at the most highest level, a place where it was last expected to appear.This is a great shame,it clearly shows the calibre of leaders that we have.

--------------
'an idle mind is a devil's workshop'

Liqinisile itshona litshona.Laba bantu ngeke sihlalisane labo.It seems they do not like to have ndebelez lead them,kukhanya abanye abantu abangama politicians were in the process of having a petition sent to the pope regarding having a ndebele archibishop representing the capital halali.

BAFOWETHU.

?????????????????????????????????????????????.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Li Zwangendaba.

Uphelelwe ngamazwi Zwangandaba? Kawulankani?

ITshabi liTshabi bakwethu. there is no reason why we should love these vile and tribalist creatures!

Mtongenakudla, ireply yakho leaves me confused. The question you should have answered is.

If they feel so bad about it in Mashonaland, why are they doing that in Matland? Pastors, Headmasters, District & Provincial administrators, Professors at the universities, teachers, MPs,boarder gaurds, Provincial police commissioners, the list is endless. Most of these are held by shona kwaMthwakazi.

Yini ufuna ukusibhada ngodaka lapha enkundleni? Uthethe khona yini?

Lalelani la makhosi lingakaxhamandi lendaba yobubishop you must first understand how the catholic bishops operate their roles and functions.

the bishops' work is not to administer sermons, yes they can and baptize sometimes, priests do that.

uPius kasuyebishop wePumula but Bulawayo wangenela uHenry Calens. when i was a catholic ,before my eyes were opened, i was confirmed by Calens which Bulawayo had no qualms with. there was Chakaipa(evilone) in Harare whom they thot he was there becoz of being a shona which was/is wrong he could havebeen a bishop in Malawi or Panama.

the shona outcry is pure tribalism which is their rite to exercise and guard against tribal infusion and confusion.

and poor Ndebele think to be called a tribalist is derogatory or redundant a sign of no education,what a shame. we ahave our grade one taught by shonas in Mat'land and your think tanks in this forum by pass that. i'll rather have my child baptized in shona than being taught my own language by a shona.

your knowledge heaveyweights once again display their embecility which is cushined by your phobia of verbal laceration. this morbid if given more time in this forum will lead to an unreversable dilema.

MaNdebele take a stand and don't fall prey to internet or webitis which some of it's symptoms are mental images of your correspondants and hence building trust on them. all of us have perceived images of everyone la enkundleni lo and behold those people are not like that abanye la are pure enemies ngamashona xathu and isizulu asimangalisi a zezuru can write and speak zulu. mina i can read and write isi***** and they will never tell ukuthi angisuye mtshabi.

qaphelani amagola la they are robing your freedom and people you don't need a master's degree in linguistics to know what you need i.e self government all this superpowers today developed amid low levels of today's advanced technology lingesabi ukuthi kuzathiwa alifundanga bhalani ngesintu kumbe ngaso isilungu leso lisephule njalo as lisitsho elikufunayo amashona la hlukananio lawo.

the bottom line is indaba kaNdlovu is fueled by inzondo which we have to receiprocate sibadudule ngemiphini yamakhuba sibabisele kibo emakhwapheni elizwe abathakatshana bezigodo labaya.

Hitshi Hitshi

Mnumzane, sengathithi awungizwanga kahle.

The bottom line kwinkulumo yami ngenhla ukuthi into embi, imbi. Ma kukubi ukuthi wena ingane yakho ifundiswe ngesiShona kwaBulawayo; ngithi mina makube kubi nokuthi umBhishopi uNdlovu ahole ibandla lamaKatolika eSalisbury.

Ngithanda ungizwe ngesenzangakhona. Ngithi mina: masigxekeni okubi nxazombili. Ma abesiShoneni bekhala ngokuthi abamfuni owakwenu ahole ibandla labo, lokhu kuhlonipheni, nikuvume ngoba yindlela abezwa ngakhona. Mabangaphoqelwa ukwamkela umholi abangamfuni. Nakanjalo nani aniphoqelwe muntu ukwamkela abaholi nezicukuthwane ezibekwe amaShona kinina. Sekuyacaca ukuthi nina namaShona anikwazi ukuthelelana amanzi. Ngokunjalo kumele nina ngabe niyavungama ngolaka nenqabela ukuthi owakwenu (umBhishopi Ndlovu) ayokhokhela ibandla lamaKatolika ezweni lamaShona (abantu abangathembakali, abangamasela, abakhwabanisi, izindlavini, abathakathi - njengokusho kwenu)! Kumele ukuthi nina nibe nesasasa lokuthi uNdlovu lona aqhubeke ekwaMthwakazi, hhayi ukuyohola ibandla ezweni lezinswelaboya (ngesingani)!

Ukuthi ngithathephi mnakwethu, ngiyaxolisa kakhulu ngoba ngibona sengathithi akubalulekile neze kulendaba. Ukuthi ngiyimpohlo noma ngishadile, akuhlangene neze nezimvo zami. Kuyadumaza ukuthi nina senangenwa ukufiphala komqondo okuthi njalo nje umuntu obeka uvo oluhluke kunolwenu, nimbheca ngobuShona. Yiyona i-McCarthysm eshiwo okaMthiyane lena. Umqondo omfushane lona!

Xukuzisani ugebhezi!

uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa.
Impohlo engenankinga!
Igcokama likaNdonga.
Isishwapha sikaSomkhele.
Inkwali yenkosi.
Yangcol' into ngayintshinga - bayicosha abafo!

Inxangiphilile.
KwelikaMthaniya.

Likhala ngobandlululo esilubona lusenzeka
kuMnu Ndlovu??????? It is just not confined to churches in Zimbabwe and in this instance to the Roman Catholic church... Ubandlululo luqala at grass root services. All the older more established churches are in the practise of segregation whether directly or indirectly. Take for instance iSabatha koByo, the vast majority of churches are for blacks kodwa ikhona leyana eyeHillside okukhonza khona abelungu. LaseNgalandi ubandlululo lukhona lapha okuconcerna isikhundla khona. Abakithi sebeze bevula amabranches abo amachurch ngoba amakhiwa lamaJamacian singahambelani ukukhonza kwethu.
The point i am driving at is that discrimination and segregation in religion has always been there and always be there. in this instance it is shame that the wrath of the matter is being directed kuMnu Ndlovu but thta is how it is.
Ngokuvala ngingathi mina, lezi yizibonelo eitshelwa ngazo embalweni.Sezivezeka kithi kancane kancane kusitshela ukuthi Indodana isizobuya futhi.

Bafowethu.

Xhiba, ngiyakunxusa ku INKOLO. Akungiphendule eminye imigqa engiyilobileyo laphaya. Uyazitsholo ukuthi lina mabandla luqamukene phakathi. Woza ku INKOLO.

Li Zwangendaba.

Ebandleni, eNkozweni!
Angazi ukuthi okuyikho yikuphi manje, ngithemba lizongixolela bakwethu.
Ngifisa ukuthitsho amagama mancane nje.

I am not a baptised Christian but I grew up in a largely Christian family and community, most the London missionary and the Methodist. I know that the Church has always maintained many forms of discrimination or segregation. The basic example being the segregation of worshippers by gender in the church sitting set up. The other being the continued subjugation to females to a second class believers that can not by God's instruction be ordained, this is however showing trends of changing in contemporary cleric circles.

But what is going on in Bamabazonke is the blatant parading of zanupf ideology, it is not disguised it is raw display of shons supremacy that should be safeguarded against pollution by outsiders.

The church has been at the forefront of fighting ethnic prejudices and has been tolerant on this issue until the advent of zanuism. Remember this ideology has nothing against another tribe except the Ndebele thus the tolerance of white priests and bishops and the outright rejection of Fr Ndlovu.

Some people do not realise that for the past quarter of a century the ethnic extremists in zanu have been tirelessly disseminating this ideology of hatred and resentment among the young, the old, the intellectuals and the men and women of cloth. Mgabe and his henchmen have to a large extent succeeded in spreading the zanupf ideology of shoma supremacy than most people are ready to believe.

I am not concerned about this because I knew it was coming or put more precisely that it was in existence but brewing below the surface. It has raptured to the disbelief of believing Christians and so-called people loving somebodies.
Vele Siyabazi banjalo, bangcole bayafa.