In an innovative move the self defined doyen of independent internet sites has added a photo gallery to his Zimbabwe news site.

The photo gallery is supposedly a protest against the participation by people from our region in pornographic and promiscuous sexual pactises.

The form of the protest, surprisingly, is to show pictures of a number of people indulging in these practises.

Apparently this is an exercise in intellectual honesty and moralism.

I wonder if you could outline whether Inkundla intends to start employing these innovations or whether you believe your site can attract sufficient attention from the intellectual community without having to grub in the gutter like the Gadarene swine?

Marcus, the answer to the question is an emphatic NO!!

The question to the answer is "are you worried about something?"

LOL!

No, Black Eagle, I am not worried at all - just relieved that unlike some whose names I won't mention you are not prepared to let your high standards slip!

Marcus I happen to be the editor of the site you write about. To describe me as a "Gadarene swine" with the full backing of this site's editors is definitely below the belt.
For your own information, we don't need naked people to be relevant. We are already.

Mdu,
I am neither Marcus nor Administrator, but I would have thought that if you really are who you say you are then you would neither have been moved nor worried about such minor "insult". I am sure because of the nature of your work worse things have been said and done to you.

Its alright for you journos to dish it out but you obviously cannot a handle a little bit of the taste of your own medicine!

Mdu I am glad you have logged on to defend the regrettable decision to show those gratuitous pics.

May I say that the criticisms I have expressed are my own and I don't think Ngqungqulu can be associated with the substantive detail of what I have written.

I can assure you that if I had access to a forum on your site I would have expressed my opinions there.

As it is I have posted satirical comments about these pics here and for your information at the Shumba forum.


I think you'll agree that Ngqungqulu's witty response may have indicated a determination not to follow your site's example: at the same time he indicated an amused detachment from my position.

As Cde Potshoza has written, please do bear in mind that in the public forum comments will be made that may sting or bruise momentarily without any intention to cause permanent injury.

I have described you as a credible journalist with a track record, I hope and expect, to success, in response to criticism from Zanu PF critics.

If you accept the sincerity of my criticisms please accept the sincerity of the compliments too.

But I stand by those criticisms.

Running the pics was salaciousness posing as righteousness; lewdness posing as moralism; crudeness posing as refinement; rudeness posing as good manners.

I think it suggest English tabloid influence and I don't believe this is an expression of respect to Zimbabwean women in general.

I don't think you should exploit your power as a website owner by abusing these young women and threatening to expose them shows you in a bad light as a bully.

I hope we are not going to see a "Page Three" type appearance at your site every day.

I reiterate that I have much respect for your sense of enterprise Mdu.

I am happy to continue the exchange but please do not feel it necessary to draw the host of this site into further discussions.

[ 12.09.2003, 17:03: Message edited by: Marcus ]

you are a man of fine words, probably more intelligent and eloquent than myself. I think you have heard what i had to say on this matter and you have been heard. I hope we will respect those two distinct zones of thought without resorting to abuse, posing as criticism....

Potshoza
Journos are generally restricted from being personal and abusive in their work, all I object to is abuse Potshoza. there is a wide chasm between criticism and abuse.

Mdu let's hope we have heard each other.

The respect for the good things you have done remains and will remain but the use of the abusive photographs also remains a matter of criticism to me.

As to reference to the Gadarene swine, well the use of piggishness on this site was pioneered not by me but by one Jazerindizayo.

But I think you might already know that.

In any event, today we hear the news of the resignation of a brave and principled journo Francis Mdlongwa.

One hopes up and coming journalists will prefer to follow his elevated standards than those of English tabloid tattlers.

Marcus, Marcus - The name as you well know is Jazelindizayo and not as you choose to spell it. I suspect that it is yet another of ploy to get me onto this august forum. In as much as I would like to fill the forum with my thoughts and engage in social intercoure with all and sundry on this here forum, you will be displeased ( or may be pleased - take your pick!!) to know that urgent and pressing professional commitments prevent me from doing so.

In any case it would appear that you are holding the fort well and if I might ask how goes the World record attempt at the Shumba forum- are you back to your prodigious output???

Having said that there is very little to say about the pornographic pictures on the newzim website. Correct me if I am wrong didn't the pornographic photos appear next to a story about the exploitation of Zim women by Asian men in the UK. Yet none of the men in the photos is Asian! What then was the relationship between the photos and the story of the women? Secondly the story itself was about Zim women becoming unwitting stars in pornographic photos and media - yet when one looks at the photos it is obvious that the participants posed for those photos. Again bringing into question the relevance of the photos to the story.

Sorry Jaz - but it did work.

Again.

Jazelindizayo

I find it sad that I have to be providing defence on this website for stories published on another site.
The truth is that the story was two-fold. There were the Asian porn merchants and the general looseness of Zim women who willingly go into the porn industry.
That said, may I also remind you gentlemen that we did seek to hide the hardcore stuff and by the way, under no circumstances would we have published pictures of people who were secretly filmed.
I hope that does it Jazelindizayo

Marcus

As for you my brother, I am still wounded by the reference to me as "self defined doyen....."

Mfowethu Mdu I have to admit that I borrowed a reference from elsewhere on your website which seemed to echo certain Jazelindayo-isms which were previously applied to me and it maybe this use of words to which you are now referring.

So you see when you described me as a man of fine words and eloquence superior to your own I had indeed borrowed my eloquence from you and was opetrating under intellectually false pretences.

You know that, particularly at a time of crisis for anybody interested in the free expression of ideas, I would not wish to impugn your newsgathering or, indeed, at a personal level, hurt your feelings, for all the tea in China.

I would like to retract not just any word but any shadow of any word that was or tended to be abusive.

In addition having visited your site today I believe you have contextualised your campaign on porn and Zimbabweans in an admirable fashion whatever a gentleman like Jaz might say.

Please be certain that in losing a critic you have gained a friend.

Marcus

it is not one of my talents to turn critics into friends but everything has a start. meanwhile who gave you that English name Comrade?

Mdu
It is indeed unfortunate that you have to use this website to defend what is published on another. Perhaps this could be due to the fact that the other website (yours) does not offer readers an opportunity to expresss their thoughts and views without said thoughts and views first undergoing surgical excission under the knife wielded by the editor. I am aware of your sensitivity to "abuse", I therefore trust that you will not take my small observation as such.

You will forgive me for missing the second part of the story- the one concerning "the general looseness of Zim women who willingly go into the porn industry" The phrase "general looseness" is quite telling as it suggests that there is an element of someone climbing on a high chair and subsequently proceeding to mete out moral judgements on the actions of adult individuals who are not breaking any laws. The same sanctimonius holier than thou perspective also permeates the invitation to name and "shame" the individuals in the photos. I have never been a journalist nor do I aspire to be one, but I have always thought that journalism was about reporting the news and not casting vague moral judgements on the actions of the individuals being reported. Having said that I have no doubt in my mind that you site is and shall remain, as self proclaimed, "The best Zimbabwe news site on the world wide web"

[ 17.09.2003, 11:52: Message edited by: Jazelindizayo ]

Mdu without wanting to give away too much biographical information this was a name given to me among others by certain elder relatives before I acquired the power of words.

Perhaps I should ask the contributors of Inkundla to select a name for me from the rich store of Nguni onomastic lore.

But I would prefer if possible that any suggestions exclude reference to such things as ngulube, ngquza, nqundu and any other unflattering phenomenon.

In addition I would ask that suggestions come from living people and not via a tshwikilo from any spirit, however exalted that spirit might be or that tshwikilo might consider himself to be.

PS Jaz well said on the last lines of your last post.

Gentlemen, I have been following your discussion with great interest and feel that I can now contribute.

First of all, Mdu should welcome any discussion about his news site anywhere it takes place. The feedback he will get here and elsewhere might indeed inform future editorial policy, which will accurately reflect the interests of his readers.

Second, issues of taste or decency have always dogged journalism and will continue to do so. How far a publication pushes journalistic boundaries depends, amongst other factors, on the regulatory framework that publication operates in.

These issues came into prominence during the recent Iraq war, when the US objected to the publication of its dead/captured soldiers by Arab newspapers. Should pictures of Africans killing each other in cold blood be published by CNN and others? Should AIDS sufferes in remote African villages be pictured, often without their consent in Western newspapers? Should Mdu have published those pictures and therefore be seen as 'de-basing' his news site? He took the risk. Whether that risk paid off or not, only we can only surmise.

With the recent closure of the Daily News, we surely welcome every new source of 'independent' information. I, therefore, wish Mdu well in his endeavor.

Ngiyabonga.

I cannot add to or take away from that summation of ethical issues Mpho suffice to say that I understand the controversial photographs attracted a record number of hits to the site.

Therefore it seems my views do not correspond with popular sentiment.

This makes me feel quite elderly and out of touch.

I would like to make one more point if we still have Mdu's attention.

As Jazelindayo has mentioned I too believe that if www.newzimbabwe.com had a forum such as this Inkundla ingxoxo room I am certain that readership could only multiply.

At the moment the Daily News site Shumba continues to function while the newspaper is under the paw of the Beast of Harare, but for how much longer?

One appreciates that the Inkundla forum has a specific target constituency who may not necessarily welcome all and any comers and therefore one makes the suggestion that newzimbabwe could indeed attract a wide cross section of users if it offered such a facility.

Gentlemen

I will try to address you all. Thanks Mpho for your, eh, constructive criticism. Marcus is a reasonable man and Jazelindizayo comes across as a very calculating, intelligent person.
in fact everyone who has contributed to this thread has been very good - although Marcus' excitement when someone mentioned the "best website on the world wide web" phrase can be interpreted (by me) as, eh, abuse!!! ha ha ha!
so people want live forums? they will get them. soon.

That's very good news and you can be certain of support from an eclectic mix of people.

Marcus - You did ask for a Nguni sounding name to correct as it were errors committed "by certain elder relatives". May I suggest the name of Sindane ? I trust that you will be happy with this moniker

let's call Marcus Vengesayi

Being a regular contributor to Mdu's website I can not sit idly and watch Marcus tearing him apart in the name of constructive criticism. What has escaped Marcus is the fact that the story has had a very positive and significant influence on many young ladies at home who aspire to "go overseas". They have seen that it's not all milk and honey out there, but rather , it's all about toil and sweat.The story has unwittingly or wittingly conscientised vulnerable people who are likely to fall victim to these monsters

Lobengula

Lobengula

Much obliged.

Lobengula
You state with some authority, though it is not exactly clear where this authority derives from , that "a very positive and significant influence on many young ladies". On what basis do you make this assertion? Have you conducted a secret study on the impact of the story that enables you make this bold (and seemingly unsubstantiated) allegation?
Secondly, precisely how many young women, as a percentage of all young Zimbabwean women abroad, have been taken advantage of by the alleged Asian porn gangs? Are the women who have been taken advantage of in the marjority or in the minority? An educated guess would suggest that a small minority have fallen foul to these alleged porn merchants.

Thirdly, while I am not a spokesman for Marcus, I think it is fair to say that Marcus questioned not the validity of the Asian porn merchants story, but rather the wisdom of the publication of the pornographic pictures on the new zim website and the subsequent furore over the naming an "shaming" of the participants in the photos.

LOL!

Mdu I do yield to your extensive knowledge of Nguni names but if I am to be known as Vengesayi does it mean I am considered to be brain dead?

And Jaz as ever your smart missiles are precisely on target but if I am to be known as Sindane will you be happy to have me as a half-brother, my half-cousin?

I should never have placed this rod in your hands.



Sibalukhulu, as I am a stranger to Nguni royal etiquette, could you please convey my respects to the person or medium who is utilizing the name of His Royal Highness and kindly express my humble and sincere satisfaction that in raising this issue here I have not only been able to express my views but elicit those of others and so in my own small way assist in amplifying the completely highminded manner in which Mdu's site has been highlighting the dangers in store for young women in our society?

May I also say I hope no misguided young lady chooses to misinterprete the photographs cited as a suggested shortcut to fame and wealth in our decadent times.

Jazi
While i generally respect your many views that i have read in the past, today i would like to cross swords with you. Firstly let me take you out of your misery: there is no such nonsense as "an educated guess" , much as there is no corresponding illiterate guess. A guess is a guess.Period. Secondly you try to exonerate yourself by declaring unashamedly that you are "not a spokesman for Marcus". In fact you sound far much more than a spokesman, a public relations officer could be closer to what you sound to be.
As for the impact of the story and the positive results it has generated , just look at the wide coverage it has received and even some schools have used it to preach the gospel of safe sex to their students. You may scream and say where do i get the facts , every weekend i travel to Zm and i serve in the governing committee of my former school . We encourage students to use reliable websites like yours truly(Inkundla.net) and you guessed it, newzimbabwe.com to research particularly subjects which have been distorted for political expedience eg History, Economics.

So the bottomline bra-Jazi is that whether you like it or not the story has had a positive spin-off. Remember Jazi, sex is no longer a taboo subject any more my brother. Nowadays teachers and parents spend endless hours explaining the dangers of sexual activity. You must move away from being an arm-chair critic and get to the toiling masses and see what the twin evils of AIDS & HIV has done particularly the poor and uninformed.

Jaz may I be the first congratulate you on your appointment as my Public Relations agent which has been given a posthumous Royal Seal of Approval?

I am sure you will be as surprised as, and no more and no less delighted than, I was when I first heard the news.

As my first instruction to you in your new and demanding position please would you be so kind as to find me a suitably dignified Nguni internet user name?

How about, on a black and white theme, Dube or Inungu?

Or something beginning with Ma- like Mahlohlelixoxo but shorter.

But please, no Royal names.

I don't wish to be haunted.

hey bakithi sicela lathi lisicacele phela ukuthi kuhamba njani lapho ,kanti uMdu ubhalela iphi iwebsite and futhi izithoimbe lezo zabantwana bakithi singazibona kuphi ,lathi mhlawumbe silezihlobo esezisemdlalweni onalowo ohluphileyo,linganceda shuwa bakithi

Bakithi ngiyilandele inkulumo yenu sibili imnandi okwamagama,kodwa into engiphicayo kancane yikubana yindaba wena Baba Jazi lo Marcus lingavumelani layo into yokuba uma umuntu eyintatheli zindaba angavunyelwa ukwenza lokhu okwenziwa ngumfowethu uMdu.Mina ngibona kuyinto encomekayo kakhulu mfokaMathuthu ukubana iqiniso lifike ebantwinililokhu liliqiniso hatshi okwaboJonathan Moyo.Uma odade bengaziphathanga kumele umphakathi wazi, ngoba labasakhulayo bazalandela imikhuba yabodadewabo eluhlazo,yikho ngithi mfo Mdu utshaye inyoka esiswini sengathi ungayingqikila ekhanda futhi.

Thrower and Rev Lovejoy

Thanks for the robust defence of the views of newzimbabwe.com. We are generally well-meaning people who have no intention to use other people to further our interests as the two gentleman have been suggesting.
I leave you with this quote from a story that we did about Jonathan Moyo, the context is spot-on:
“Peculiar people whose life is either behind them, or have no right to have one ahead of them, preach moralism in the name of our revolution,” Goebbels once said. “This moralism often has nothing in common with true morality. They proclaim ethical laws that might be appropriate for a nunnery, but are entirely out of place in a modern cultural state.”

Goebbels had been piqued by a “moral knight” who was campaigning against a soap advert showing a girl holding the soap to her private parts.
“The moral knight who unfortunately had the right to determine the fate of this poster forbade its distribution on the grounds that it offended the moral sensibilities of the population. What is moral about this? The immorality is in the person announcing the ban, who presumes that other people share his dirty fantasies!”

What is the true meaning of the Ndebele word,Ngqwele,answer,is a little coward who scares other innocent law abiding parent fearing boys by acts of bullying in most cases pysicologists have discoverd that they are children of single parents.By the way who calls others bobantukazana and others Ngqwele in this forumn what a pity!.The other thing Mdu,the difference between any other forumn and newzimbabwe.com is the same difference there is in reading the Bulawayo chronicle and The Daily news.That leaves you with the ansewr why some people defend ponography and prostitution,simple they were educated through that.REALITY STRAIGHTTALK khonphaaa Mdu.

was it really really necessary to post those pictures?? would your story have had a different impact had you not showed the pictures??? To me, that was very offensive and pornographic material which had no emergency reason to be there. The pictures were just good for the guys to drool over, but as a deterrent, i disagree. Those pictures might have actually aroused some sexual desires and achieved a completely different goal other than the one claimed by the author. If i want to discourage any one from engaging in sexual escapades, the last thing i'll show that person is pornographic material.

nobhutshuzwayo

i am intrigued to learn that those pictures made you feel the way you did. but i refer you to the Goebbels quote above. meanwhile Dynamos just lost 2-1 to Sporting Lions, I don't know what that does to you.

Mfowethu Mdu I am intrigued indeed by your reliance on no less a pervert and perverter of the truth than Goebbels to defend your use of dirty pictures.

I hope that you do not construct all your journalistic ethics on his pronouncements?

It was Goebbels who said

quote:

---

"A lie repeated
often enough becomes the truth."

---

and

quote:

---

"The great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a 'Big Lie' than a small one, if it is repeated often enough."

---

Please Mdu.

Do not choose to believe and repeat the "truths" of a proud liar like Goebbels.

Either you will be seen as a liar, or a gullible fool who believes in lies.

I am not sure whether the reputation you will earn will assist the reputation of www.nudezimbabwe.com .

Mfowethu Thrower I appreciate the concerns you raise about the title "Ngqwele".

Mfowethu I was told that the word actually means a chief among cattle herds and that this title was once applied to Zulu Shaka himself!

As an unassuming man I was a bit concerned the title made too much of me.

Mfowethu it was polite of you to offer a less polite meaning and for pointing out as a fellow guest at Inkundla what a rude host we have!

Mfowethu on a point of clarification is there really such a thing as a child of a single parent?

Is there any man or woman alive today who was not conceived by a mother and a father?

Even the aforesaid Ngqwele Shaka had a mother and a father.

Mfowethu it may be that you are an expert on this important sociological issue by virtue of growing up without knowing the name of your father.

But I want to reassure you this does not mean you had no father and were one of "the children of a single parent".

This would have been a biological impossibility.

I am sure even your mother possibly knew the name of your father.

If she did not, may I apologize for raising a hurtful issue, but since you threw open an unexpected door I simply walked through it.

Marcus

I thought we were over with that matter but it appears you are a revisionist debater.
Joseph Goebbels lied just like everyone, including yourself. nothing unusual there.
and what is dirty about a picture? the dirt, as Goebbels said, is in the perverted mind of the 'moral knight' who in this case is Marcus.

Ah, Mdu, it was you who revised the debate by introducing your ethical authority of Goebbels and therefore you who rely on lies.

I wish you the best of luck at nudezimbabwe.

Mfowethu Marcus at least you give a clear example of someone who in life was refered to as Ngqwele,it is an illigetimate son of Senzangakhona named Tshaka who was raised by a single mother Nandi who was one of the Biggest "Mazakhela" in the history of Zulus,no wonder Tshaka because of his lack of discipline later in life died a painful death cause he had followed selfish,pettycoat advices from his mother to become a chief bully, Maybe he also defended ponorgraphy like yourself, no wonder he killed all those man whom he had asked to dance infront of naked women expected not to erect even at such close contact during the mourning of his mother.As i see you are a great admirer of Tshaka,let me bring this to your attention,he is the only king in zululand whose grave is not respected at all for your own information it is situated in some place where two main roads meet lapha okulezitolo zamandiya ethekwini,just to prove to you that it does not pay to be immoral because you affect your life your children's and even your History.Shame on you all defenders of immorality.Mdu i think start onother topic on Zimbabwean peadophiles I think a lot is hidden in here.

Thrower,
It is painful to note the extent of propaganda and its effects on gullible minds like Thrower's.
Not only have you fallen to naked disinformation churned by apartheid era historians who went on an offensive trivialising our history as black people but went further to trash our leaders like the Great Tshaka Zulu. For your own information, Tshaka was one of the greatest statesmen to walk this earth. If he was all that "cruel" as you would like to believe, how was he able to buid such a powerful nation as the kingdom of Zululand. How was he able to win loyalty from his armies and conquer the whole of Southern Africa through his nation building initiatives. In South Africa and indeed across Africa he is hailed as one of the greatest nation builders of the 19th Century. In South Africa, over the years there has been a national holiday in his honour known as the King Tshaka Day , it has since been renamed NationaL Heritage Day specifically to honour this larger than life warrior. Films have been made about him. Remember he is only one of a very few select of Africans to be named as the past Century's most influential personalities by Time Magazine, he is ranked far much higher than Nelson Mandela. As for your nonsensical wuffling about children who grow up under the care of a single parent, may I suggest that you urgently seek psychiatric help because that purely reflects the extent to which your schizophrenic desease has deteriorated. Alternatively you must consult a "which-doctor" in case it is already beyond conventional medical remedy.

Marcus for your own information Tshaka was the illegitimate son of Senzangakhona,brought up by his mother Nandi a Mazakhela who had bad influence on Tshaka's life, no wonder Tshaka died such a painfull life because through his selfishness he made himself a Ngqwele.for your own information iam not like you, my parents have been married for over 4 decades and i am proud of them because i have never heard them defend pornography ever since that makes me an enemy of immorality and bullies like you.have a nice day but don't end up a stripper.

Lobengula you sound like a man haunted by a spirit of cowards,"runaways",Tshaka was nothing if morality and stable mindness is concerned,no wonder Mzilikazi realised that and distanced himself from the Bully.If only you know History then you will know what i mean.Mandela never slaughterd his own,never abused men and women it is with utter disgust for you to write such rubbish making comparisons of Tshaka to Mandela.You sound like your name's sake who was by no means to be a King of the Ndebele if His Brother Nkulumane was't killed,infact Lobengula if it was today he was the class of Muzenda the late.Make your reseaches properly before untshuma.

Mfowethu Thrower may I complement the information supplied by Lobengula for your information regarding the son of Senzangakhona by pointing out that today, the 22nd September 2003, will witness the annual commemoration at KwaDukuza.

Each year it is attended by thousands of people who are proud of, and knowledgeable about, their heritage.

Two years ago among the Guests of Honour was the South African Vice President Jacob Gedleyihlekisa Zuma together with Dr Mangosuthu Buthelezi in the presence of iSilo samaZulu King Zwelithini Goodwill kaBhekuzulu.

I was fortunate enough to attend that gathering as an ordinary spectator.

Apart from this day of days the life of the Ngqwele is remembered in history, political science, literature and the consciousness of every Zulu woman or man, irrespective of political affiliation.

An imposing monument commemorates the life and untimely death of one who stands next to any Emperor or Soldier-Statesman in the hierarchy of this world's heroes.

On the 24 September 2003 the South African Government will be releasing a stamp and an official commemorative envelope to honour his memory and to honour the country that was honoured by such a King.

Let us hope we can look forward to the day when our heroes such as the Royal son of Mashobane and his Royal son will be commemorated with equal dignity and decorum.

Thank you mfowethu Thrower for helping me to think once more about greatness, pride and wisdom.

No more need be said.

[ 22.09.2003, 15:14: Message edited by: Marcus ]

Thrower,
Based on your reliance on distorted history and "facts" that have been massaged specifically to appeal to unsuspecting individuals like you, it will be correct for a reasonable person to conclude that you are a dull fellow.
Just to demonstrate the low level to which you have stooped, you could fall victim to the following evangelical statement: "blessed are the poor, for the kingdom of heaven is theirs". You could literally rely on this statement and resign from your work and spend valuable time in bed.

Thrower you are being true to the age-old adage that "idiocy feeds on ignorance". Not only do you spend bagfuls of hot air but you also demonstrate your brinkmanship through a massive heap of lies , distorted history and a total disdain for the historical facts. You insulate yourself from both logic and reason. You refuse to take a leap in imagination so that you could realise that this bull-dust which you parade as "facts" about our Kings is in fact rubbish which has been repeated over and over (to steal from Marcus, idon't want to steal from Goebbels) until the Throwers of this world fall victim to this falacy

Mntungwa!
Mbulaz'omnyama
Abathi bedl'umuntu,
Bebe bemyenga ngendaba.
Abadl'izimf'ezimbili,
Ikhambi laphuma lilinye.
Lobengula kaMzilikazi,
Mzilikazi kaMashobana
Shobana noGasa kaZikode,
Zikode kaMkhatshwa.
Mabaso owabas'entabeni,
Kwadliwa ilanga lishona
Bantungw'abancwaba!
Zindlovu ezibantu,
Zindlovu ezimacocombela.
Nina bakwaMawela,
Owawel'iZambezi ngezikhali.
Nina bakaNkomo zavul'inqaba

Zavul'inqaba ngezimpondo,
KwelaseNgome.
Nina enal'ukudl'umlenze
KwaBulawayo!
Mantungwa aluhlaza!
Mantungw'amahle!
Bantwana benkosi,
Nina bakwaNtokela!
Ndabezitha!
Maqhaw'amakhulu!

Marcus
I have to admit that I have so much respect not only for your intellectual prowess but also for your pride in our culture, our history our ubuntu and our common struggle as Ndebs. Today in you I see a proud Ndebele. You would recall others like Terence Ranger, Giovanni Arrighi who were PF-ZAPU intellectuals. We are proud of you gentlemen. You are part and parcel of the proud Ndebele Nation.
Keep it up.

On the issue of Ingqwele let me clarify a few distortions:
In the rural areas, where cattle herding is a favourite pastime for boys in their teen years,
they organise boxing tournaments among themselves with various boys squaring up against each other until a champion is found. The question is who becomes the champion? It is the boy who beats up everybody else on a toe-to-toe fight until the opponent surenders. Once he wins and no-one is prepared to square up against him, he is then declared an "Ingqwele". What are the benefits of being an ingqwele? This question is equivalent to saying what is the benefit of being a heavy weight champion of the world? The reigning "ngqwele " will reign until somebody challenges him. If he gets knocked out he relinquishes the "ingqwele" title and the new champion reigns. So you see it is a very democratic process which has a beneficiary effect of traing these guys preparing them for manhood. That is why Ndebele guys are known to be generally physically strong and fierce fighters.
"war-like" they say.

Zintandane zeSilo soHlanga, zizukulwane zamaqhawe:


Kade ngacina ukuvakashela khona lapha enkundleni yengqondo; laph'okugaywa khona ubuchopho! Kungasenani, bengithi lami kengigcizelele mayelana lembali yegama "ingqwele". Anginawo amazwi amaningi, ngizophuthuma ngamafishane ngisho engikwazi ngezingqwele zomdabu.

Mina ngokwazi kwami, ingqwele bekuvame ukuba ngumholi wabelusi, uma bechakisa izifuyo khona le emahlathini. Ngeqiniso, bekungumfana obethelisa kwezenqindi. Iningi labafana babeyesaba ingqwele. Kukanti abanye babeyihlonipha.Kusenjalo nje, ingqwele ibifundisa abafana labafanyana izinto eziningi njalo ezehlukene; ezifana nokuthambisa amajongosi, ukukleza inkomo, ukubaza intonga, ukugada inzomba, ukuthapha inyosi, ukugawula imbazwana, kumbe ukugebha ibhotshi kumbe imbongolwane, njalo njalo. Ngamafishane, inqwele bekungumhleli njalo umbalisi/umkhokheli. Abanye abafana babeyesaba ingqwele ikakhulu ngoba ibivame ukubaxega (ukubaqhubeza), ibafundisa ukushaya inqindi uqobo. Njalo ingqwele ibivame ukunqandisa abanye abafana izifuyo!

Mina ngokwami angingeke ngisho cha ukuthi ingqwele bekungumuntu omubi kumbe onocuku. Engikwazi kahle yikuthi kungasingqwele, abanye abafana bebezakhula bengamagwala, bededesa njengensane. Bheka, kwesinye isikhathi, ingqwele ibilakho ukulumisa umfana ngabolonyovu!! Abafana abalengqwele yoqobo bebehlakanipha masinyane.

Ngiyema, zininizenkosi.

Lobengula for my part I would not only like to offer you my respects for a masterful exposition of the lore relating to izingqwele history but I have certain sincere apologies to make that are directly and indirectly addressed to you too.

In the first place I would like to apologize to our colleague Thrower for the manner in which he insulted me because this resulted in my insulting him.

I should also apologize to our colleague's parents for as the saying goes "Inkunzi ibekwa ematholeni" and as he exposed his thought processes he embarrassed his parents without doubt, and all because I was foolish enough to debate with him.

This leads me to the closely related apology I offer to you for the way in which I introduced the subject of King Shaka because this led to our colleague expressing views which were a disgrace.

You have very lucidly explained why our colleague has suffered horrendous mental degradation through brainwashing under white supremacist historiography and again I am moved to apologize to him and to you for this as I am after all a white person.

When will the mental scars which have induced some people to hate themselves and their culture heal?

I apologize to you for the fact that as a proud man you were then obliged to correct our colleague.

Unfortunately he responded to correction as a skunk does to a thrown stone.

Lastly and not least of all I would like to apologize to you for failing to recognize the type of gentleman you are from the first post you made on this forum.

Mnumzane, I have become an aggressive and suspicious person through engaging too long with Mgaxabeism.

I thought you were too good to be true.

Good news travels swiftly however.

I am delighted to know you are indeed too good not to be true.

I certainly do hope that one day we will meet, here or there - or here and there.

There is no apology I can offer to newzimbabwe.com because as the aforegoing shows, I hold no special brief for Mdu who has mastered the argument as well as authority for developing stories.

His is patently an enterprise that will flourish, whatever I say, and attract widespread attention as it does so.

Uzokhula uzokhokhoba.