Origins yezibongo

Posted by: butholezwe

Origins yezibongo - 06/19/07 12:18 PM

Over the past few years we've been priviledged to have some well informed forumites besichasissela ngomdabuko wezibongo ezithile. Ngingathokoza kakhulu uma abalolwazi balandise nomdabuko wezibongo ezibiza Sibanda and Moyo ezitholakala koMthwakazi. Ngiyabonga.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/20/07 09:32 AM

Moyo is of Shona origins. A heart is mwoyo in Shona. These people are undisputedly of Shona extraction. Their totem is Vuma balanda (ngesiNdebele)or Vuma varanda in Shona. Kubuye kuthiwe ngo mageza ngobisi or mageza nemukaka. Kushukuthi oMoyo basesiNdebeleni baseyinto yinye namaShona. They're one & bakhonza idlozi linye! They only came to be part of Mntungwa's nation by assimilation. UMntungwa kaMbulazi absorbed the Moyo from the conquered Shona & henceforth they became amaHole, a part of the Ndebele, alongside the Enhla nathi abeNguni.

Sibanda: Laba ngabantu besi Tswana ngokwendabuko. They're called Sebata (pronounced Sibata) ngesi Tswana. Their totem is Tau tona(Tswana for great lion - ingonyama enkulu!) and has been adapted to Dawu duna ngesiNdebele. They're royalty kube Tswana. If you listen to all Tswana praise poets, they always emphasise a lot on Tau. They're Tau this, Tau that, blah, blah. For evidence, listen to Stoan Seete of Bongo Maffin - uzibongela kamnandi ngobu Tau bakubo. Also listen to Siphokazi Maraqana's new album, Ubuntu bam. Listen to song number 3 on the album: lapho ubonga those who helped her athi "Sebata, Tau thank you" etc etc.

In summary, mina wangaphesheya koThukela, mina Nkwali yenkosi, uShamase wangempela, uMtubatuba kaSomkhele, ngithi:
Moyo is undiluted Shona.
Sibanda is Tswana

Wena uthini?
Posted by: Hitshi-Hitshi

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/20/07 10:24 AM

OMoyo abakoMthwakazi asiwo maShona. Okhokho babo, bangabe babe ngamashona kodwa bona, by religion, culture and language, ngamaNdebele.

Funda ukuthi abantwana besihlangu babephathwa njani umbuso usahlezi. Lalingeke lenze imikhuba yalapha ekhaya libatshiye ngapandle. ubunengi babantu ababelapha ubundla nondo, were recruited into the Ameva regiment, from were the Amaveni T/Ship of Kwekwe derives its name.

Bakhona njalo abanye abavele bengamaShona abathi ngokuza sebenza koBulawayo, (it was the first industrial hub of the country kusabusa abamhlophe), used ndebele surnames for their shona ones. OSibanda bakoChirumanzu, oNdlovu labo Mpofu beMberengwa lezinye nje indawo zelizwe.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/20/07 12:20 PM

Hitshi-Hitshi

Or is it Hiss-hiss!!. Your lack of attention to detail will prove to be your undoing. Mnumzane, please pay attention to detail. See the wood from the trees.

I urge you to revisit & re-read my posting. This time with both your eyes open.

Mina kaNkwali, I addressed the issue of origin yezibongo zakwaMoyo no Sibanda. By origin, sisuke sisho indabuko, the very beginning yaleso sibongo. Period. Kungango kuthi isibongo sakwaNkwali siphuma phi. For that, you can't start hollering & blubbering about some Nkwalis in New York, London & such mumbo jumbo. That's irrelevant - ukufuduka kwabantu has led to Nkwalis all over the world. We want the source - ukuthi emandulo babevele benhloboni, beqhamuka phi!

AbakwaMoyo, in as much as benga bakini esiNdebeleni njenga manje, indabuko yabo ngeyesi Shona. Igama, Moyo, liqhamuka kwisitho, inhliziyo, which the Shona call, Mwoyo! Umuntu wakwaMoyo is therefore a Nhliziyo ngesiNdebele. They call themselves Moyo because they're Shonas - Mwoyo being inhliziyo in Shona. Banga maShona, izinyanya zakubo zigidela endlini, imikhuba yabo ngeyesiShona, izithakazelo zabo ngezesiShona, igazi labo ngelesiShoneni, inkaba yabo ilahlwa ngesiko lasebu Shoneni, kunye nentswebu yabo imbala ngeyase buShoneni. Ukuthi bakhuluma isiNdebele & so forth is irrelevant. Njalo ukuthi badabuka ebuShoneni is not an insult, it doesn't demean them as people. It's the plain unadulterated truth about the Moyos.

Posted by: Ginyambila

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/20/07 12:59 PM


Mntongenakudla,

The term Shona itself is not the original term, therefore cannot be used to describe ama origins akoMoyo. The correct term is Lozwi.

Ukuthi Shona is only a term that is a mere 100 years old and is used to describe a certain grouping of which labo abathi ngaleso sikhathi beyisizwe samaNdebele were left outside.

Ngakho nxa sikhuluma ngomdabuko langamasiko, ngabe Lozwi.
Posted by: Ndukuzibomvu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/20/07 01:05 PM

Imvelaphi yolibo lwabantu bakwaMoyo
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/20/07 01:10 PM

Gwinyambila!!!

Or is it Gwenyambira! You & Hiss Hiss must be Moyos. Why are you so defensive?

Your contention is far fetched. It misses the mark.

If you follow your argument to its finite conclusion , you'll find that ayikho nje into oyishoyo. If oMoyo bebe ngabeLozwi before they became amaShona, then amaShona were abeLozwi before they changed their nomenclature to Shona. Uma kunjalo bandla, pho why do you seek to hide ukuthi oMoyo ngamaShona? You can't suppress the truth by avoiding it. No.

I'll reiterate, the fact that oMoyo are of Shona origins does not in any way demean or depreciate their humanity. Bangabantu nabo, despite ubuShona babo. It's time they accepted lento abayi yona ukuze siba mukele for the Shona descendants they are.

Akulona ihlazo ukuba yisizukulwane samaShona.

Posted by: Ginyambila

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/20/07 01:34 PM

By modern day definition of Shona, which is only a mere 100 years old, Shona people are those that speak the language which itself is a collection of different dialects.

Therefore by modern day description, amaNdebele yilabo abakhuluma isiNdebele. Abanye bathi amaNdebele nguMthwakazi wonke.

The real and original description of abakoMoyo is AbeNyai kumbe abeLozwi. They cannot originate from a descriptive term which itself is only 100 years old.

Furthermore, would I be correct to say "The origins of Shamase or Mkhwananzi are Ndebele?"
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/20/07 01:53 PM

Gwenyambira

Vuma varanda, mageza nemukaka!
Sengiyavuma ngempela ukuthi, you're a true Moyo indeed. And you deserve ten out of ten for defending uhlanga lwakini.

On a more serious note, I must say, you're just meandering around in circles. Your far-fetched assertions are neither here nor there. Whether by intention, your own design or ubuwula: eish angazi. Your points are hollow: a sieve holds more water. You do not add any value to the person who started this thread.

Okusemqoka ukuthi iqiniso uyalazi. OMoyo ngamaShona ngokwe ndabuko. Whether the term amaShona is 100 yrs or 6 mths old is immaterial.
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/20/07 02:06 PM

Bafowethu.

M'ntongelakudla, goqa iyembe mfan' ekhaya sihle sitshayane. Hirrrrrrrrr! Elamani?

Indaba le ilokulahleka kancane ngoba siyilanda ngembali ebekwa ngabantu bokuza.

O Moyo akusibo Matshona. Asekhona aMaTshona abizwa Moyo, njengoba esekhona njalo amaNguni abizwa Shamase. AbeLozwi, yibo ngomdabuko abalesizwe esibizwa Moyo, njengoba esetshilo omunye phambilini. Njalo abe Lozwi, laMaTshona kwaphuma embizeni ezehlukeneyo.

AMaTshona ngomdabuka babebizwa Ama-Tapa, kumbe Zezuru. Izizwanyana zakibo lezi esezithiwa Kwerekwere, MaNyika, MaToko, MaKaranga, ngosekuvuka nje ngemva kokwehlukana kwesizwe sabo sakuqala esithiwa Ma-Tapa.

Ukuthi bathiwe MaTshona yikuthunyelwa igama ngezinye izizwe.

Kuyafana labeNguni. Abe-Nguni bakuqala badabuka emfuleni uLuwangwa elizweni elithiwa Zambiya namhlanje. Umdabuli walesi sizwe yena eli NYASA. Uzwisise lapha ukuthi kwehlukene INYASA le NYANJA. Nguye lo Mnguni ozala oLuzumane, Omithiyonke, kuze kuye kubo Malandela.

Thina AMathonga siyizithunjwa zabeNguni sesibizwa abeNguni nje kungenxa yeSwazi elikhulu elalithiwa NGWANE (varient - Ngwana) elathatha untombazane ka Malandela uNovivinyo. Namhlanje sithiwa abeNguni kodwa akusithi esaqala leso sizwe.

Ngima lapho okwamanje.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/20/07 03:01 PM

Zwangendaba

Wena wekunene!
Wena waphakade!
Wena wetive!


Ngikuzwa nginga dakwanga.

Kepha ngimi ngaloko engikushilo. OMoyo ngamaShona. Uzokhumbula wena wekunene ukuthi ngasho kusukela kudala ngabo 2004 ukuthi amaKalanga namaShona ngabantu banye. OMoyo laba obabika kithina baqhamuka endlini yebuKalanga! As a result bangamaShona. Uma uphawula ngezithakazelo zabo o-lopa blah, blah: ilopa leyo yi-ropa (igazi ngesiShona). BubuShona lobo!

You haven't strengthened the point of Moyos being non Shona. If anything, you're augumenting my point yokuthi laba bantu yindlu yase buShona. And the more you try to seperate them from their true Shona heritage, the more bezo fulathelwa ngamadlozi angempela akubo ebu Shoneni. Ukufulathelwa yidlozi bandla kuletha umshipoti - umkhokha, ukhriphula webhadi!

Again, I will emphasise ukuthi: akulona ihlazo ukuba yisizukulwane samaShona. Nabo ngabantu. It's time all Moyos accepted ukuthi badabuka ebuShoneni. Just like the Mpofus, Sizibas. All these are descendants of Chaminuka!
Posted by: butholezwe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/20/07 05:21 PM

Ngiyabonga bobaba ngokufaka ulwazi lwenu lapha esigxingini. Kusobala kimi ukuthi ukuthi likhethe indlela ezihlukile ekuchasisene ngengxoxo yethu.

Njengoba kuyimi umabuza, into esingimqotho ngayo nemva kukuloba kwenu yikuthi abakoMoyo besibebehlezi eZimbabwe ngokufika kukaMzilikazi. Kukhanya liyavumelana ngalokho bafowethu.
UMnto uthi abakoSibanda baqhamuka eBotswana, njengoba kungekho muntu olombono ohlukileyo kutsho ukuthi uyitshaye ekhanda!
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 03:09 AM

Bafowethu.

Inkinga ibisiba ekutheni kungaba labantu bakoMoyo esiShonewni, abantu besebegcoba wonke muntu iShona.

AmaKalanga have existed long before the Shona(MUTAPA or ZEZURU) came to BUDLANONDO.

Kufana le mistake yokuthi ungathi unguMhlanga sebesithi uliTSHANGANA. Izibongo omhlanga they cut across many tribes. AMATSHANGANA are just a new tribe formed by Sotshangane less than 150 years ago and it is full of the Mhlanga people.

OSIBANDA abaveli eBotswana ngoba layo i Botswana is a new society. Ubusithi ungafika esizweni esitsha ubuzwe isibongo. Besebethi abadala, Hayi OTAWU kuleli ngo DAWU. That means OSibanda baquma across a number of Societies.

UMNTWANA AKAZALI UYISE.

Abantu bako GUMEDE ngaMa Lozwi omdabuka. AMaZulu athi izulu YIMVULA (Mvura ngesiTshona), inombolo 8 amaTshona athi Tshibozwa, amaZulu athi SIBHOZO, Kutsho ukuthi aMaZULU ngamaTshona in the example given by Baba Mnto'ngela.



HRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! ELAMANI.

Vika Mfana.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Zela

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 03:27 AM

This is very interesting indeed.Mina I think nje abantu sibanye,angithi lapha esivela khona nje kude,ungakudingisisa sibi sibili usiyamuva kambe awutholi ukuthi siMUNYE!

Kodwa ke njengoba sazehlukanisa singabantu,i think umuntu belongs to lapha okhuliswe khona,nxa unguMoyo weSindebele uyazi amasiko esindebele lesishona leso ungasazi,i guess uliNdebele but ma ukhuliswe ngesiShona leso then uyazi isiko lesishona then uyilo,but abantu nje generally-ONE THING.Jus different cultures.

wumbono wami nje lo.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 07:39 AM

Zwangendaba

Wena wekunene!
Wena waphakade!
Wena wetive!



Iqiniso yiqiniso. O-Moyo badabuka emaShoneni, just like amaKalanga edabuka emaShoneni. There’s no shame in the fact that oMoyo ngamaShona. It doesn’t demean or depreciate them as people.

AbakwaSibanda. I never said abakwaSibanda baphuma eBotswana. I said, ngokwendabuko bangabe Tswana. AbeTswana are not only in Botswana. Stoan Seete of Bongo Maffin is not from Botswana. The North West of Mzansi (where the Tswana people reside) is certainly not Botswana.

Another point of correction. The number 8 ngesiZulu esiqondile is: isishiyagalombili and not ISIBHOZO as you allege. Your allegation is devoid of truth and futhi izodukisa abantu, bafunde isiZulu sakho esibheke eceleni. Isibhozo yigama lesiXhosa baba.
Posted by: Madlenya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 08:22 AM

Mina engithanda ukuthi uZwangendaba acace kukho yikuthi AmaKalanga lamaKaranga angabe engahlobananga na?

Impikiswano yenu zinsizwa ivula amehlo, qhubekani liqwaqwazana, okwakhathesi uZwangendaba usethole 8 out of 10, uMnto 7 out of 10.
Posted by: Skuvethe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 11:04 AM

Zuluboy, ubosebenz' ubuye! Kodwa kunjani ukuphila, ngiyabona usu 'back-spinile' lemibono yakho ekhontrovetshali.
Kodwa-ke, ukuba khontrovetshali kwakho ngabe yikuzama uku emphasiser your 'difference' from the rest of us amaNdebele I wonder?

Unga fosteli abantu, yeka babe yilokhu abayikho khona, njengoba nawe izolo ubungum' Ndebele namhla ungum' Zulu nje. Kunjalo-nje, ibambe mfanakithi, ungay'yeki.Sebenza!
Posted by: Moyo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 11:31 AM

Kuyangijabulisa kakhulu ukuzwa ukuthi ngensuku zalamhlnje kusekhona abantu abalolwazi olungaka, PROVIDED YOU ARE NOT FOOLING US. Mina ngokwami angali njalo angivumi ukuthi abako Moyo bayiwuphi umhlobo kumbe hatshi. Njengo Moyo nje kudala lamingifisa ukuthi ngazi imvelaphi yalesisibongo. Ngikengabase Salisbury ekuqaleni kwama90s, ngahlanga lenye indoda ebivela eTanzania ngezwa engitshela ukuthi bagcwele abako Moyo lakhonangale kubo eTanzania. Kambe kungayikho okwaqhamuka khona amaShona na? EMalawi khona angibali. Into engijabulisayo yikuthi lababantu bakoMoyo irregardless of which ever language or culture they are affiliated to, they are all similar. Majority man are slender and majority women are just too talkative and they have a problem with finding Mr. right. The women are too bossy in short. If there is any other Moyo reading this engangifakazela. Lapha ngitsho iMoyo etholaka accross what ever tribal differences. In short what I'm saying is that, Moyo is ONE but I can not confirm the origions. Thina abako Moyo singama "COLURED"
Posted by: Mthoko

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 11:34 AM

I have never heard one man talk a load of bullcrap like you do.

"Moyo is of Shona origins. A heart is mwoyo in Shona. These people are undisputedly of Shona extraction. Their totem is Vuma balanda (ngesiNdebele)or Vuma varanda in Shona. Kubuye kuthiwe ngo mageza ngobisi or mageza nemukaka. Kushukuthi oMoyo basesiNdebeleni baseyinto yinye namaShona. They're one & bakhonza idlozi linye! They only came to be part of Mntungwa's nation by assimilation. UMntungwa kaMbulazi absorbed the Moyo from the conquered Shona & henceforth they became amaHole, a part of the Ndebele, alongside the Enhla nathi abeNguni"

At times one would be foolish enough to take your word as you sometimes make yourself come across as very well informed. It makes me furious at times when I read idiotic posts like yours. But, I suppose this is the whole point of having a forum like this; that we can take comfort in listening to idiots like you entertain us.

Listen to me now and listen good. Us MOYOs are Ndebele like any other. Most of us singama Lozwi (derived form Rozwi). I am sure you know the dynamics of the Ndebele state so I shall not delve into that much detail, or maybe you don’t?

We might be amaHole but we are still part of Mthwakazi. Ndebeles are not Zulus. Ndebeles are Ndebeles. I think that is where you confuse yourself ndoda.To say that we are Shona through and through is an insult. Sibandas, Ndlovus, Ncubes, Dubes, Moyos, Mpofus, etc… Are all amaHole and a big part of Mthwakazi at that.

I wish I had more time to discuss!


Posted by: Ndebele phaqa

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 12:46 PM

Heyi kuyashisa laphekhaya, I think we are now missing our point of discission here Lapha sidingukwazi ngemvelaphi/lomdabuko wesibongo sakoMoyo and i think we all directly and indirectly agree on one thing IT COMES FROM SHONA ORIGIN, Zwangs said amaLozwi Umtho says Rozwi(akusiso isitshonalesi Mtho?)Kodwa ngokuguquka komhlaba baphela ubushona ngoba sekuhlangenwe namaNdebele ngemva kokuthunja kwabokhokho bakoMoyo ngokunjalo bakhona abesishoneni, malawian,tanzaninian nabesintwini njengoba umfowethu eshilo ngaphezulu abangabakoMoyo.Ngokubona kwami sonke siyavumelana noMntongenakudla ukuthi originally its from Shonas which makes you Moyo guys no-less Ndebele as some of you dont even know isiShona.In short ngithi uMoyo wakoMthwakazi nguMthwakazian finish and klaar. Welcome back Shamase
Posted by: Hitshi-Hitshi

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 12:54 PM

Uqedile baba.

Its just that some of us are not gifted or is it cursed, of foul speech njengoMntongenakudla. Kahle kahle we are not saying anything different but how we put it indicate the shallowness of the dynamics of nation building.

AmaNdebele akoMthwakazi include but not limited to the following,

Amazulu,
Amakhumalo,
Abesuthu
Amapedi,
Abelozwi,
Amavenda,
Amakhalanga.

You can not refuse these people the right to their ancestoral origins, but when it comes to National issues, NgamaNdebele. Kahle kahle you can not refuse them the right yokuKhonza uMbuso wesishoneni if they so wish.

Like I said in my earlier post, what defines you is your language, culture and religion.
Posted by: Meli Omuhle

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 12:57 PM

Sabona we Mthwakazi omuhle, ngithole ukuthi usemoyeni ngathi kahle ngikubingelele. Phila ukhokhobe.
Posted by: butholezwe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 01:23 PM

I feel I've got a good enough idea about the possible origins zakwaMoyo ukhona ongabe efuna ukuqcizelela kumbe afake umbono otshiyeneyo (kuloka Mnto lo Zwangs) about the possible origins of isibongo sakoSibanda? I'll take silence from the forumites as assent to the above gentlemen's assertions or like myself you are not wiser on the subject.

Ngiyabonga
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 01:53 PM

Bafowethu.

Ngincindezele:
________________________________________________________________________________
Another point of correction. The number 8 ngesiZulu esiqondile is: isishiyagalombili and not ISIBHOZO as you allege. Your allegation is devoid of truth and futhi izodukisa abantu, bafunde isiZulu sakho esibheke eceleni. Isibhozo yigama lesiXhosa baba.
________________________________________________________________________________

Mfana ngizakuhlaba ekhaleni - uthi wena ISIBHOZO akusiso sizulu?????? Nama, etshwa, ekhaleni. Thatha i "DICTIONARY" yesizulu, elotshwe ngu DOKE, SIKAKANA, lo VILAKAZI. Uphenduke uzongitshela kumbe akusiso siZULU ukuthi ISIBHOZO.

Ngikuphinde njalo elihlweni, nama. Isixhosa laso yisiNguni. Njengoba iSsiSwati laso kuyisinguni. Uzathola ukuthi akhona amabala asetshenziswa kundimi zonke lezi esiSwatini/Zulu/Xhosa/Ndebele/Tshangane. UPHINDE UTHOLE UKUTHI ELINYE IBALA ELIFANA LOSIBHOZO LISETSHENZISWA KAKHULU NGOMUNYE UMHLOBO WESINGUNI KULEMINYE IMIHLOBO. LOKHO KUYABE KUNGATSHO UKUTHI ALISEKHO ESI ZULWINI NXA LISETSHENZISWA NGABADALA ONTANGA ABAFANA lawe MNTO'NGELA BENGALAZI.

Isizulu sami siqondile sibili ngoba UGOGO ozala UBABA NguMaGumede. Esaphila wayehlala esithi - "Yithi imihlobo yawo Tshaka". Angisiphumputhi.

Ngaphandle kweSiNguni, laso isiZULU silama "Dialect". Abasempangeni bathonywe yizizwe zesiSwati balamanye amabala ongeke uwathole kulabo abase Natal, kumbe kulabo abaseNkayi abathonyelwe ulimi yisiKalanga. Kodwa bonke nje BAKHULUMA ISIZULU in their different dialects. Ungathi wena esakho yiso sodwa isizulu.

HHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Elamani?????

Li Zwangendaba.

HRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Elamani.
Posted by: Moyo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 03:12 PM

From the look of things there are so many bleeding hearts out there which need some kind of healing. Asazi ukuthi kungenziwani ukuze izizwe ngokwehlukana kwazo zihlale phansi zikhulumisane zikhiphe okuse zinhliziyweni zazo (FACE TO FACE DEBATES). Lapha sesimane silwe nje ngento engekho akusiolo cala ukuba yiwuphi umhlobo. Yinto esibulele ilizwe likaMthwakazi ukucosana ngohlanga. Iqembu elibusayo okwamanje lalicabanga ukuthi lixhasa umhlobo othile ngokucindezela eminye imihlobo, khangela manje ukuthi kwenzakalani. It's a hell of confusion that is currently happening in Zimbabwe which can only be saved by people who understand that no tribe is superior than the other. Kufana lokuthi uhleke omunye ngoba umfitshane okweqile, okusalayo akazenzanga lowo muntu. Who are we to judge one another, it's only God who can do that.Why worry we all come from apes which look more ugly than any other living human being today.Let us do away with Hatephobia and be objective about the subject. Next time bengingajabula nxa singaya sidinge ukuthi ONdlovu labo Mahlangu bona bavela ngaphi. Ngitsho njengoba kukhona owake wangihlebela uthi bonke abalezibongo ezibizwa ngenyamazana akusimaNdebele. eg Ndlovu, Ntini, Sibanda, Mpofu, Nkomo, Mbuzi, Nja etc.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 03:57 PM

Zwangendaba

Wena waphakade!
Wena wekunene!
Uyibinda wena wendlovu!!



Lahlaba lagxamalaza ithole laseMtubatuba! Usuphakathi kwazo ke manje mfoka Shamase! Kwaze kwamnandi ukuba yimina! Nakhona.

Igama ISIBHOZO as listed in Isichazimazwi Sanamuhla Nangomuso by C.L Sibusiso Nyembezi (inkwali yenkosi, uShamase wangempela, uNdonga, uMtubatuba kaSomkhele, uVeyane, uMpangazitha, uMashukumbela, uMkhwanazi woqobo)says, in brackets: Xhosa. This implies ukuthi yebo singali sebenzisa kolukaMageba (sengisho isiZulu phela), kepha lona ngokwendabuko, elakwa Xhosa.

Back to the Moyo topic. I still reiterate ukuthi oMoyo ngamaShona ngokwendabuko. This is the unequivocal truth. Kunjalo nje, angisho lokhu ngoba ngeya indlu yakwaMoyo. Cha. Iqiniso yiqiniso. Libaba linjalo. But in this case angiboni ukubaba kwalo ngoba being of Shona origin does not demean the Moyos. Baseyindlu kaMzilikazi, under amaHole. Lokhu ngeke kuze kushintshe, just like imvelaphi yabo ebuShoneni izohlala imi njalo kude kube phakade. Angikhathali noma labo abakhulelwa wukuthukuthela bengathini. Maba futheke, bagcwale ulaka, kepha uMoyo wohlala eqhamuka ebuShona - simhlonipha, simamkela ngalokhu ayikhona!

Posted by: vunguza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 07:08 PM

uMoyo kumele akhuzwe (besesiqhubeka ngengxoxo)

Uthi uMoyo "Iqembu elibusayo okwamanje lalicabanga ukuthi lixhasa umhlobo othile ngokucindezela eminye imihlobo, khangela manje ukuthi kwenzakalani". Uyaphi Moyo ngalo umugca?

Bengicabanga ukuthi usubonile Moyo ukuthi yimitsho efana laleyi (reckless statements) edala ukungazwisisani (i-confusion that you talk about), but what do you do? You go back and do exactly the same thing! What's up Moyo? I really think that qualified statements can help this (and any other) discussion where not one contributor can claim to be the master of the subject (from what I gather so far).

Ungizwe kahle Moyo. Angilwi. Lami ngidinga ukwazi ngcono njengathi sonke. Nxa usithi 'iqembu elibusayo okwamanje' utsho liphi, njalo lixhasa liphi? And yiphi i-confusion edaleke ngaleyo ndlela?. Ungasiza kakhulu Moyo nxa ungazama ukuthi i-clarity ikukhokhele enkulumeni zakho, lokhu kungasiza abanengi abadinga iqiniso elimsulwa.

Mina ngokwami ngicabanga (and I don't claim to be a master of this subject) ukuthi okaMatshobana, a master politician and a military genius all in one, wayefuna ukwakha isizwe (i-nation building phela) through i-coercion lapho kwakuyikufuna kwakhe ukuthi lalabo abangasibeNguni bazizwe besekhaya nxa bekuMthwakazi, (a colation of the different tribes, including the captured Shona,) hence the different tribes that make up the Ndebele nation that has been in existence since the mid-to-late 19th century. But nation -building is another subject for another day. However, it does inform the fact that we all come from different other tribes and possible nations, as in the case of the Shona, (or Lozwi, or Rozwi, or Tapa, [Jesus son of Mary!!!] or whatever you want to call it, and trust me, it made no big difference to the Ndebele nation then, it sure makes no difference now). We all know that once one finds oneself in the midst of a different nation from the one that defines them, they either revolt (in different ways) or are absorbed (through assimilation, naturalization or otherwise). KoMthwakazi, the later was the best (and wise option).

Now, iShona liShona liShona. iTswana liTswana liTswana. Ngokunjalo, uKhumalo nguKhumalo nguKhumalo. Bonke laba bakhona koMthwakazi. Kodwa bakhona futhi lalapho bedabuka khona. Ama-processes e-assimilation le-naturalization ayazitshintsha izindlela abantu abazibonga ngazo (a reflection of the new environments that people move to). This is a basic fact of life. Nxa abantu bengasazazi ukuthi babuyaphi, that could be a tragedy on thier part, but that could also reflect a successful process of naturalization. If ukoMthwakazi kodwa usakhumbula lapho odabuka khona, good for you! sesingabhala amabhuku lamabhuku ngokuthi usobani losobani babuyaphi, kodwa umuntu lomuntu otshisekileyo ngomdabu wakhe uyazazi lapho abuya khona. Ongazange wafuna ukwazi, lapho lami kangazi.

Ekuyigobeni, I don't believe ukuthi lokhu kumele kube yi-primary pre-occupation of the Mthwakazi collective. We all know ukuthi a number of different tribes make up the Ndebele nation. There are more seroius and pressing threats to our Mthwakazi nation-hood, such as the fact that we might soon find ourselves a nation that only exist in the diaspora, if we don't already.

Would it not be better if singadla amathambo engqondo ngokuthi senze njani ukuze singafi siphele sithi du, njengesizwe sikaMthwakazi?
Posted by: Mhlabuhlangene

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 07:55 PM

zwanini madoda uma uliShona uliShona the same way u Arthur Mafokate wathi uma uyinja ,uyinja.

Amashona have done a lot of damage to Zimbabwe and anyone who has a drop of Shona BLOOD IN HIS VEINS SHOULD HANG HIS HEAD IN SHAME.

OKUSALAYO WE CAN`T INFLUENCE OUR HISTORY BUT WE CAN SHAPE OUR FUTURE vuka mthwakazi!!!
Posted by: Madlenya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/21/07 08:11 PM

People need to be careful, restraint is needed at times. Let us not shout at each other. Gone are the days when the Khumalos used to be the first class citizens in Mthwakazi, those days will never come back again, now we are all equal, a Moyo can be our leader, or anyone else who used to be in the lowest of social classes in Mthwakazi.
Posted by: Ndebele phaqa

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/22/07 07:03 AM

Zihlobo zami, akelitshele mina ukuthi sibangani? Mina angisazwisisi, kambe singasukela umfoka Moyo simbulale sithi litshona yena engasazi ngitsho lakanci? Into esemqoka yikuthi asivumeni ukuthi Moyo was originally a Shona then as the world revolved thats changed. Banqotshwa ngokaMatshobana wabathumba babayingxene yesizwe sethu samaNdebele. BangaboMthwakazian as much as i am mina WakwaMahlangu, Dube , Khumalo.I think we are missing the point ubafo lona ubefuna ukwazi ngendabuko (origin)yabakoMoyo ayi ukuthi bayini bona namhlanje.Tell me, how many Phiris do we have in our midst? are they still nyanjas, chewas or they are now part of Mthwakazi? Ziningi kabi ingane zakoPhiri esizaziyo abangakaze balubade ngakubo eMalawi and abasazi isinyanja bashaya isiNdebele qho nabo bazithi bangamaNdebele ikhona into embi ngalokho?Umfowethu uthe useyitholile impendulo asidluleleni phambili sibhekeni eminye imbuzo efana nale ebuzwe ngumfoka Moyo (mageza nemukaka- ungangibulali Moyo ngiyayidlalela nje)

Lets stop name calling and accuse our brothers of what they are not.Most of Moyo guys are fighting for the Mthwaklazian cause and they are very proud to be a Mthwakazian just like you and i, they are our brothers they are part of Mthwakazi. In South Africa how many police officers are descendents are Zimbabweans? But they arrest and deport us now and again cause they call themselves Zuluz Pedis,Xhosas and all that yet ngo Moyo, Ndlovu, Dube basekhaya.If you cant beat them join them, imihlobo iyaihlangana kancane kancane thats why sinamaColoureds and all that.

Ngiyabonga ngiqondiseni mangiphuma endleleni.
Posted by: Zela

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/23/07 01:52 AM

awudingi kuqondiswa Ndebele p.uyishaye khaleni.
Posted by: sindebele

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/24/07 06:34 PM

indaba inje umuntu uyazazela lapho avela khona abanye bethu sivelela ethonotha sithi emoyo etalawunda chilandu ntapa yisishona na
Posted by: Nyandeni

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/09/07 10:00 AM

Your assertion that everyone with a so called animal surname is a hole is simply not true. There are people who's ancestors have never smelt your country before and have these surnames here in SA oMpofu, mainly eastern cape and southern KZN (meaning light-skinned or poor!) Nkomo (too many to mention in Mhlabuyalingana KZN) Ndlovu (Gatsheni is a Hole! my foot!) Dube, Langalibalele (Same as Gatsheni) I, m not sure what you are smoking but just get your little tribalistic mind out of the Zulu nation as I understand the owner of this argument is not even Zulu himself if we want to be harsh now.
Posted by: Moyo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/09/07 12:08 PM

Okusalayo nyandeni uyilokho oyikhona ngingeke nagakutshintsha lokho. What tribalism are you talking about, yes Im tribalist if you talk in terms one who studies tribes. But you will be completely wrong if you think I judge people by the tribes they come from. My philosophy is simple and clear "I judge an indidual by the content of his/her mind not by his/her ancestral background because as it is in this world you like it or not no one can claim to be a pure certian tribe. This is just a debate to find out on how far people can remember where they come from not to creat battle lines lines against each other. If you don't have an idea to what I say leave it to those who might have an idea. Kufuze wazi ukuthi ungeke wazi zonke izinto ezikulom hlaba. Okunye okufuze ukwazi yikuthi angibhemi, angizange ngabhema lasekuqaleni njalo angisoze ngafa ngabhema mkhula, siyezwana. Funda ukuhlonipha abantu, kuhle ukuhloniphana siyezwana !!
Posted by: Nyandeni

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/09/07 04:22 PM

Moyo
Ngoba bayakuthelela ungashayi onke okhona. I am actually supporting you by showing that the so called identifier of so called amahole is meanigless as there are multitudes of Zulu clans with the very surnames that are bandied about here as those of a certain group which is Lower than Zulus. Just read my mail again and you will see that I am not talking about you. Rather about someone else who started this hole nonsense
Posted by: vunguza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/09/07 08:15 PM

nonsense heh? now, why do i like that?
Posted by: Siphepheli

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/10/07 08:41 PM

Mkhwananzi weShamus, uyaphila mnakwethu. Ngiyezwa lokhe bekhala ngawe kulesisigingu, hk hk hk.
Posted by: Spade omnyama

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/11/07 05:18 AM


Ekuqoqeni isizwe sika Mthwakazi UMzilikazi ka Matshobane uzihlanganisile izizwe ezehlukeneyo.AmaNguni, AbeNhla kanye lawo amaHole. Bonke bebebantubanye ngaphansi kuka Mzilikazi.Ungakhangela abalobi bolimi lwesi Ndebele inengi labo ngama Hole impela!Okuqakathekileyo yikuthi sonke siyisizwe sika Mthwakazi!!! Asimanyane, mazinyane eSilo!!!
Posted by: vunguza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/11/07 04:39 PM

Spade omnyama

abanjengobani Spade omnyama? Njalo balobe ziphi izingwalo?
Posted by: Spade omnyama

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/12/07 09:39 AM


Nampa abanye bakhona Vunguza-Ndabezinhle Sigogo, Caanaan Mkhethwa Moyo, Felix F. Moyo, Mayford Sibanda,Galen Sibanda, Eunice Sande, N.M. Ncube, Isaac Mpofu,Phamba Mpofu, Tommy Matshakayila Ndlovu, Bekithemba Sodindo Ncube.Izibongo lezi ayisizo zesiNgunini, wethu, kodwa ngubani ongalandula ukuthi la ngama Ndebele qho?
Posted by: vunguza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/12/07 12:04 PM

Ngiyakuzwa Spade Omnyama kodwa how confident are you ukuthi abantu obabethayo, with the possible exception of oMoyo bobabili, ngamahole as we have come to understand the term within the structure of the Mthwakazi state?
Posted by: Nyandeni

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/12/07 04:09 PM

Qoboshani bantu bakithi. uNdlovu uGatsheni lihole? Amanguni akwaNdlovu kwaZulu baholelwa ubani? uMxhosa kaMpofu yena ke? I think people are confusing themselves here. This issue of animal surnames just doesnt make sense. In fact mpofu means light skinned in Xhosa and poor in Zulu. Its origionaly not an "animal surname" Those with the shona version may be animals but not abakwamthwakazi as I understand it!
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/13/07 07:42 AM

Nyandeni

Don't confuse issues here. Ndlovu is not even of Zulu origins. I covered this topic some time back ngabo 2004/2005.

Nonetheless, I'll take my time to re-explain. UNdlovu lona esimbona la kwelikaMthaniya (ie KwaZulu) ebizwa ngoGatsheni, boya benyathi, buya songwa buya sombuluka, Mthiyane etc, is not of Zulu origins. He is of Sotho extraction. Uqale engu Tlou or Motloung, kwase eba nguNdlovu ngokufuduka kwakhe engena KwelikaMthaniya. That's the Ndlovu loyo esimaziyo thina endlini yakwethu KwaZulu.

Be that as it may, indlovu yinyamazane egcwele yonk' indawo yase Afrika. As such, okuyi zizwana konkana kuthathe igama lale nyamazane, kwayenza isibongo sakho. To that extent kunabo Ndou KwaVenda (ngamaHole!), Ndlovu ebuKalanga (ngamaHole!), Zhou ebuShona, Njovu kumaZambezi (ngamaHole!), kunye nokunye okungoNdlovu enginge kuqede kwizizwana zonkana umhlaba ungaka! All these stripes of Ndlovus are not Gatsheni, Boya benyathi, Mthiyane! Never. They are not Zulu, were never Zulu & will never be. If they refer themselves as Gatsheni, bathukuthelisa izinyanya zakwaGatsheni. As such, bayowelwa ngumshipoti, umkhokha, ukhriphula webhadi! Mabakhonze izinyanya zakubo zangempela - sengisho amagidel' endlini ansondo!

Kunjalo nakuMpofu. OMpofu bakwaXhosa are not in any way having a common ancestor nabakwaMgodoyi. Never. AbakwaMgodoyi bazibiza oMpofu ngenyamazane, impofu, yet kwaXhosa bazibiza ngobumpofu, umbala wento (colour). It must be clear as well ukuthi oMpofu bakwaMgodoyi are of Shona extraction. Akekho umuntu wakwaMpofu kwaMgodoyi oqhamuke kwaNguni. The ones abangamaNdebele njengamanje, ngamaHole 9 9! They were assimilated ngokaMntungwa, ebathathe kubo ebuShona, baba ngamaHole!

Sengishilo mina wakwaNdonga, uShamase, inkwali yenkosi yangale, ngaphesheya koThukela. Ngeke ngashintsha ngikhefuze amanga ukuze ngithandeke emphakathini. Mina ngobheka phambili, ngime ngeqiniso kude kuyovalwa!

AbakwaXhosa bathi: ukuqala kobulumko, kukoyika uJehova. M'na ndohlala ndimoyika!


Posted by: Spade omnyama

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/14/07 08:36 AM


Mntongenakudla,

Wena wakwa Ndonga, inkwali yenkosi yangale, ngaphesheya ko Thukela ake utsho: Nxa sisithi isizwe sika Mthwakazi siyabe sisitshoni?
Posted by: Maqhamehlezi

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/14/07 11:14 AM

IF YOU DONT KNOW FROM WHERE YOU CAME THEN YOU ARE DOOMED TO SHAME....lets be careful BY NOT shouting our lungs out and bleating louder than goats can.....If we talk of origins or the original AmaZulu then a lot of the current peoples known as AmaZulu wont qualify to be BUT they would qualify being Ngunis..The current peoples who are now known as AmaZulu are just part of defeated Nguni clanlets that were incorporated under King Shaka's clanlet called the Zulu household, Shaka had a vision of building a mighty-massive Nguni dominated kingdom under his clanlet named after his great-great-great grandfather Zulu as was the case in those days to name a clan after the head of the household.

Otherwise originally,a lot of the present AmaZulu surnames would fall under then Nguni clanlets like Mthethwa clan, Lilangeni clan,Dube clan,Khumalo clan,Qwabe clan to name just a few of many...and you would find that to this present day these Amakhosi of different Nguni clanlets still exist and they give reverence to Isilo saMakhosi uZwelithini though of late its been rumoured that some wanted to be regarded equal to the current Zulu King...sounding like a rebellion.
Many current Zulu surnames are not originally Zulu(of Zulu clanlet) but if you say they are Nguni in origin then yes you are closer to the truth.... A lot the English have origins from the balkan region but they are called English now just like many white Americans have European origins but they identify themselves as Americans and associate as different from their origins...over time clans evolve some get annihilated and a new breed emerges...therefore a present Ndlovu who is uMZulu is not the same with a Tlou of origin in trait,behaviour and values.this can be seen in Matabeleland how the Zulu accent and language became diluted/constipated and a subculture imaged lucky enough not all was lost thus some people in Matabeleland who have Nguni connection down South can still be able to establish their... INKABA.

At the end of day you are what you are...no one can take away your geneoalogical heritage ...search your history it will show...let no one fool you... KUYABONGEKA BAKWETHU...NIBE NEMPELASONTO ENOBUMNANDI--NDI.



Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/16/07 07:39 AM

Spade omnyama / Halavu elimpisholo!

Uyihalavu langempela.

Mnumzane, angiboni neze ukuthi umbuzo wakho lona uxhumana kanjani nezimvo zami ezi ngenhla. Nokho, mina nkwali yenkosi, uSomkhele wangale, ngaphesheya koThukela, uNdong' omnyama - omhlophe ngenhliziyo, ngokuphendula. Ngokuthatha ngikubeke esikoleni somlando - phecelezi, I'll quickly put you in a history class.

Lalela ke wena ndodamfino. Isizwe senu lesi sakwaMthwakazi yingxubevange yezinhlanga ezihlukile. Ngamafuphi ngingathi kunezi nhlanga lezi: abendlu kaMageba, abeza nokaMntungwa kaMbulazi ephuma nabo kweseLembe. Laba ke babizwa abeZansi. Ebese kuba nokuyi zizwana okaMntungwa akucosha endleleni. Lapha ngisho abeSuthu nabeTswana. Labo ke babizwa abeNhla.

Bese kuba noquqaba lolu oluseceleni, olubizwa amaHole. Lezi yizithuluba (uthuli lwezwe!) okaMntungwa azicoshe wazifaka kwisizwe sakhe, ezithathe kwizizwana zendabuko yalendawo yenu namhlanje ebizwa ngeZimbabwe. Okusemqoka wukuthi lezi zizwana bezi dabuka ebuShona, zikhonza amagidelandlini.

Kuthe ngomusa wakhe okaMntungwa, wakuthatha okuyizi thuluba lokhu, kwakhosela ngaphansi kwamaphiko akhe, kwaba yingxenye yesizwe sakhe samaNdebele. Namhlanje nakhu okuwuthuli lwezwe ngobuningi bakho, kumila izimpondo kuba ngama vukana, kudlalel' emakhand' ethu, kuzam' ukuthi distort i-history. Cha ngeke - anga vuk' ame ngezinyawo okaMbulazi! Ngifung' amaNkwali.

Engethemba kuyacaca, nokho still ngise ngakaboni i-relevance yombuzo wakho lona.

Bhabhayi!


Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
uNdong' omkhulu - uMashukumbela, umakhwelintaba nyova!
uShamase wangale ngaphesheya koThukela

Posted by: Spade omnyama

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/16/07 12:28 PM

Muntongenakudla,

Ngiyezwa njalo ngiyabonga wena Shamase wangempela! Mqwashisi, impohlo engela nkinga!

Umcijo owodwa nje-kungesiwona ama Hole lawa isizwe sika Mthwakazi would not be as powerful as it is today!

NgiliHole wethu, but l am very proud to be associated with the nation of uMthwakazi.

Kulomehluko phakathi kwethu abaka Mthwakazi labakwaZulu.Thina sesilolimi lwethu olwehlukeneyo( isiNdebele) njalo amasiko ethu asehlukene.

Philisisa Shamase wangempela, umqondo wakho ubanzi!
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/16/07 02:44 PM

Halavu elimpisholo

Ngikuzwa nginga dakwanga. Ngivele nginga wathi mbibi amankwebevu.

Well, niyi majority yes. Lokhu akuphikiswa. Ngokunjalo, kusafanele nivume iqiniso lokuthi ningama Hole, izithuluba, uthuli lwezwe! Nani yileyo nto, niyi leyo nto, nohlala niyi leyo nto kude kuyovalwa. Lokhu akukona ukuthi mina kaShamase ngiya neya okanye nginenzela phansi. Cha. Leli yiqiniso lange mpela elinge phikiswe. Iqiniso elimsulwa eliqhatha (ukuxabanisa) abantu ngoba uma ukhuluma iqiniso, unyamanambana kubantu. Abantu sebakhonza amanga too much.

Coming to amasiko. Well, I concede ukuthi nina maHole nina masiko enu wesiNdebele, njalo lawo masiko ahluke njenga manzi namafutha kulawo awa KwaZulu. After all you have no iota of a common denominator noMageba - finish n klaar. Uzokhumbula wena Halavu ukuthi nina maHole nilahle ama original siko wenu asebu Shona, nathi adopt amasha wesiNdebele upon assimilation into Mntungwa's kingdom. That's undisputed.

However, I will die fighting uma ngabe wena uthi mina Nkwali yenkosi ngine siko elifana nelakho elamaNdebele. Cha bhuti mina ngeke - umkhulu wami uNkotheni angavuk' ethuneni ahambe ngezinyawo! Mina mfowethu, izinyanya zakithi kwaShamase zithethwa ngesiko laseZansi, la inkaba yasala khona. Umsamo wakwethu uthethwa isiZulu - nothing more, nothing less. Thina bakwaNdonga siwumhlobo othandek' enkosini, asikwazi ukuhamba sicosha (ukudobha bhuti) amasiko wezizwe zonkana umhlaba ungaka. Asikwazi ukubiza amakhosi akithi ngesiko lasemzini!Asikwazi ukwenzela phansi abakithi ngokugidela endlini, sibahlanganisa nezinyanya zasebu Kalanga, ebuVenda noma ebuZambezi. Ngamabhadi lawo. Amashwa. Umkhokha. Umshipoti. Unomnganga. Ukhriphula webhadi!

Sengishilo mina wundlu leSilo saseMtubatuba. Mina Ndong' omkhulu, uSomkhele, uMpangazitha, uShamase, uVeyane wangale, ngaphesheya koThukela.

Bhabhayi.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi



Posted by: Madlenya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/16/07 03:08 PM

Some people delight in dividing the Mthwakazi nation with their unfounded statements paraded as biblical truths. Some people are gifted in nation building while some are retrogressive and destructive. The Mthwakazi nation has evolved from what it used to be, now it is a modern and united nation. The caste system is now a thing of the past. There is noe Hole, no mzansi or abaSenhla, we are now all equal as the citizens of Mthwakazi nation.
We are tired of this man who by now sounds like an old record with a scratch, he has been saying this nonsense since 2005 or there about. He doesn't learn. He is too proud for nothing. In short if he continues in this line of madness we will be forced to remind him of who he actually is. Let him dare continue.
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/16/07 03:29 PM

Bafowethu.

Shamase. Nkwali yeNkosi. Ngizaqala ngokukuceba emajaheni ngoba ufuna ukungitshaya ngiphansi.

Ngihlale e ZAMBIA 4 years baba, ngabhoda ISIZWE esikhulu sabelozwi (varient BAROTSE). Njalo ukuthi Barotse bayazitsho bona, kababizwa ngomunye umuntu njalo. Isibongo esithi SHAMASE sikhona kubo lamhlanje ngikhuluma kanje. Uzidingele wedwa. Isibongo esithi MOYO balaso njalo. Kodwa laba bantu abazange kababe nga MaShona. Njalo labo abango SHAMASE kubo abazange kababe ngama Zulu. YIKHO O SHAMASE BALOBUHLOBO LABO MOYO. Since we are all BANTU.

Njengoba amazulu akhiwa ngokuyiZIZWENYANA (in your own words), can I conclude that oSHAMASE bebengamaLOZWI bengakathunjwa ngu ZULU na? Balazo njalo izibongo ezithiwa ZULU laba BALOZWI (varient BAROTSE). The Zambian Army Commander during our War against the Rhodesian Terrorists was called GREY ZULU. He descends not from the ZULU Tribe, but from the ZULU clanlets ezasala emuva kusuka UMALANDELA eLuwangwa esiza phansi eMzansi.

NXA ISIZULU OSIKHULUMA LAPHA KUYISO ESEMPELA, ASEHLUKANANGA KE LESISHONA. MHLAWUMBE YIWO AMA SHONA CLANLETS AWATHUNJWA NGU MALANDELA NGOBA LAYE WEDLULA ELIZWENI LAMASHONA ESIYA EZANSI.

Ngincindezele.
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Lalela ke wena ndodamfino. Isizwe senu lesi sakwaMthwakazi yingxubevange yezinhlanga ezihlukile. (NGAMAFUPI) ["my own capitals"] ngingathi kunezi nhlanga lezi: abendlu kaMageba, abeza nokaMntungwa kaMbulazi ephuma nabo kweseLembe. Laba ke babizwa abeZansi. Ebese kuba nokuyi zizwana okaMntungwa akucosha endleleni. Lapha ngisho abeSuthu nabeTswana. Labo ke babizwa abeNhla.
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LANGESISHONA AMAFUPI KUTSHO "IN SHORT". YIKHO AMAZULU ACORDING TO YOU NGAMA SHONA. INGANI "the mouse" NGESIHONA BATHI MBEBA AMAZULU LITHI MBIBA.

Ngiyihlolisisile i DICTIONARY yami yesizulu. Angikubonanga kulotshiwe ukuthi ISIBHOZO is Xhosa. I Dictionary ithi yona "ZULU".

Your posting of July 13 2007 at 08:40 am is clear historically. You explain well that SOMEONE originates a society and everyone else is INCORPORATED. U ZULU ka BHEKIZIZWE was himself from the MAMBO Clanlets. He ORIGINATED his ZULU tribe ecatshile ezintabeni esesaba umfowabo uQWABE (varient QHWABE). His tribe grew because he incorporated OKUYIZITHULUBA lama HOLE ayewehlula. He grew so big waze wehlula uQWABE. OKUYIZITHULUBA lokhu yikho okwasekuzibiza AMAZULU. Lalamhlalokhu kungama ZULU. YIKHO ULIMI LWAKHO OLUFANA LESISHONA LULOKHU LUSAPHILA PHAKATHI KWASO ISIZULU. Mhlawumbe labo abako Shamase babuthwa NJENGATHI SONKE namhlanje bayazigqaja ngobuzulu. Lathi abaka NGWANE sabuthwa ngu MALANDELA lamhlanje siyazigqaja ngobuNGUNI. Kodwa asisoze sizithi singamaZULU. Ngoba asisiwo amaZULU.

Yikho abakaMthwakazi labo kabazigqaje ngokuba nguMthwakazi.

Ubuye uthi akula mpofu okwa Mthwakazi ongasilo Shona? Wena. Ngizakunqanda mfowethu. Ngizithwele SHAMASE induku zami. KANTI INDUNA ZAMAXHOSA EZEHLULWA NGU MZILIKAZI ZABUTHWA LABANTU BAZO ABANYE BABO BENGO MPOFU, SEBEPHIKWA NJANI UKUTHI YIMIZANSI?

Ngizabuya Historicaly ngabendlu ka MOYO engiyaziyo mina, engizalwa kuyo ngogogo ka mama wami. next time.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/16/07 09:49 PM

Bafowethu.

MOYO BATALAHUNDA

Lapha zihlobo angidingi ukuphikiswa. Ngidinga ukuncediswa, ngoba ngikhuluma ngezinye zezindlu zako MOYO. Sikhulu lesi sizwe. Sitholakala namhlanje ezizweni ezinengi. Kodwa ngomdabu sizalwa ndlu nye.

I have often read from “Scholarly Historians” that the VILLAGE NARATORS of Afrikan History are unreliable. These same “Scholarly Historians” accept and record oral narrations from other societies. So unreliable are our oral narrators that these Scholarly Historians prefere to consult mute stones and ruins to extract our accurate history as if we are now extinct like the dinasour.

This is an insult to the dignity of our people. Such attitudes led to our people realizing the distortion of our history and culture they resorted to remaining MUTE as the stones and ruins that the “Scholarly Historians” were consulting. Ironically, it is these accurate dictates of our history by those who STUDY us to which a lot of our people still base their argument. Some of our people hold on to Extrapolated dictates as their basis of their past when the IZANGOMA are still alive.

In my research with the IZANGOMA, I realized, and was taught that there is information that was not released to foreigners due to FEAR of the information being distorted deliberately, abused, or downright ridiculed.

IS THERE ANY MORE REASON TO FEAR NOW?

There still is, as some of the destroyers of our own culture and religion are our own people now. The IZANGOMA tell us that closed in information is given out with care as to Who receives it, how it is issued out, and how much is issued out.

This is what I was taught about the MOYO people, those from the house of BATALAHUNDA.

I, Zwangendaba am born by Intombi engu MaMnguni, this ntombi being born by intombi engu MaDube, this ntombi being born by intombi engu MaMoyo from the Batalahunda house. This is my history on my paternal side. I mention this so that I authenticate what follows, so that those who share blood with me can tell me outright if I have missed a point. This information is in one of my books which I am just about to finish, so it is copyrighted.

While I was in Zambia in the late 1970’s, I had the opportunity to visit with the Tonga and Lozi people. I learnt a lot from these people.

Originaly the term MOYO was not a name but a TITLE. It used to refer to a position in the society. This was the spouse of the top most position, either a king, queen, chief, ruler, be it male or female. This was practiced by the Lozi people. MOYO itself means EMOTION, SOUL, SPIRIT. In Nguni that is MOYA. The children born from these people were referred to as Mwana-Moyo. In the olden days they carried that name until they were old enough to take over the rule of their society. Then they selected their own MOYO to grace their kingdom. In later times, only the boy in the family would retain the MOYO together with the incoming MOYO into the family. The reason was that tradition dictated that the youngest boy remains in the family when all others start moving out to make their own homes. Even at marrying age, he would mary, bring his spouse to this home and be the one who looks after the elderly in the family and the palace. Literaly, he is the Soul, Spirit, Spouse of the Palace. The Lozi call that MOYO-WA-MAFULO. The Moyo-Wa-Mafulo in later years were privileged to become the LITUNA/ INDUNA should the king or queen deside to segment his society. These Moyo-Wa-Mafulo also inherited the kings younger wives when the king died.

In later years, the MOYO transformed as they were increasing in number. Now MOYO was used to refer to a COMMONER RELATIVE of the ROYAL HOUSE. It meant one was of “Blue Blood” in the saying of the English. These were the people allowed to work in the Royal Houses, BA-LANDA ba MAMBO, or the Kings Light Duty Slaves.

The Lozwi(Lozi) people refer to their kings as Mambo. This is an old BANTU phrase not restricted to one tribe or clan.

MAMBO BATALAHUNDA was a MOYO. He was born from the LUKODZI DYNASTY. Lukodzi was born from MOYO SENYAWE. Senyawe was born by NKA-LAGKA. Nka-Lagka was born by LOZI. Lozi was given that name because he was a great Isangoma and originated the hissing whistle followed by the “Bhula Zangoma” when they cast the bones. It is he who started or originated the LOZI tribe. It is from him that the Moyo descend.Lozi was born by TWA-MAMBA (variant THWA-MAMBA) with three notable brothers, MOPELI (variant MOPEDI), an older NKA-LAGKA and MUVENDA MUDANTHANE. Pronounce this THA as one would in the English THE. Ngesintu wenze angani ulaMalimi , MudaNTHAne.

Twa-Mamba was born by one LANGA with one brother who became a mighty man, LUZUMANE. Langa had the following siblings, LUWANDA, LUBA, NKONGO. Langa was born by MU-KWANDA the sower of nations. Umtshali wezizwe. History tells us that he had hundreds of wives and hundreds more mistresses, IZANCINZA. Many tribes in southern Afrika descend from this Mu-Kwanda.

Today MOYO is used as a surname, in reality it is a title or reference. They of Royal Blood, or The Royal Sweetheart.

That is the little I know about one of the houses of MOYO. Those who transformed from Royal sweetheart to Royal slave. Vuma Ba-Landa.

From interview with ugogo omncane u MaMoyo and Basekulu Vuma, Plumtree, 1989.



Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Sibambamahawu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/17/07 07:59 AM

Hhawu madoda indlu yakoMoyo yindlu enkulu njalo ebaluleke kangaka. Kuhle lokhu osinikeze khona Ngwana, bayobhema bakholwe abendlu yakwaMoyo. Abavuke abakwaMoyo baphinde badle ngoludala, silindele abaholi besizwe sikaMthwakazi.

Nginombuzo omncane, ngake ngathi ngilalele uKhozi FM, ngezwa uReggie Sipho Khumalo, kwathi ngelinye ilanga ngezwa futhi uMuthwa ekhuluma ngendawo okuthiwa yiBudlabunondo, kungabe yindawo ekuphi nomhlaba lena. Sengathi lendawo amaZulu (Nguni) adabuka noma adlula kuyo ngesikhathi befuduka noma bake bakhela kuyo.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/17/07 08:34 AM

Zwangendaba

Wena wekunene!
Wena waphakade!


Ngikuzwa nginga dakwanga. Ngivele ngiwathi mbibi amankwebevu.

Whilst I cannot claim monopoly to knowledge, I still insist ukuthi wena wekunene have been to a large extent conservative with the truth.

May I state that mina kaShamase am not an upstart. Cha. I know history. Kudala ngiyihamba le way lena, kusukela kudala ngisase sikoleni. History (& literature) was, is & will always be my first love. Angifosti, kusegazini. Yisiphiwo sami engasiphiwa yidlozi. I scored distinctions kwi O & A level to prove it. Ukuthi angiyenzanga at Varisty level nje wukuthi I decided to chase other rainbows. Otherwise ngingasho ngokunga ngabazi ukuthi ezomlando zise gazini lami.

AbakwaShamase
Zwangendaba, musa ukwethuka, uzenyeze, weye indlu yakwethu. Ungalokothi. Uzozibizela umkhokha.

Indlu yakwethu ngiyayazi. Indlu yakwethu inye nje vo. Akekho uShamase wasebu Zambezi, buShona, buKalanga, buVenda noma whatever other stripe. Thina singabantu abakhulu kabi – we just don’t occur noma yikuphi. Just take a look kusukela kudala usemncane Zwangendaba. Be honest with yourself & tell me: how many Mkhwanazis have you ever met? Over a hundred? If you’re honest with yourself you’ll say: “Cha Muntongenakudla, bayidlanzana kabi (bambalwa) abakwaShamase engiye ngahlangana nabo selokhu ngazalwa!”. Ehhene.

The reason why there aren’t Mkhwanazis all over the show, millions like Moyos, Sibandas, Ndlovus, Tshumas, Ncubes & all the other smaller surnames is just one. And that is: you can’t forge, you can’t fake ubuNkwali. Never. Uma wenze njalo, uzibizela amashwa.

Ngiye ngakubona mina ngisakhula. Esigodini ebesakhe kusona, umuzi wakwaMkhwanazi bewumunye nje vo – owangakithi. Kunjalo nje, bekukhona umakhelwane (indodamfino nje) wakwaSigidi (Ncube I think) owayesa mngoma of some sort. Kuthe kungalindelwe, gwiqiqi wazishintsha isibongo waba nguMkhwanazi. Bonke abantu babamba owange nzansi. Yeyi wena, okwenzeka kuyena after that ngeke uze ukholwe. The man went bonkers, he went bananas, lost his mind & died a directionless, sad poverty stricken man. Nobu ngoma bakhe lobo bavele bashabalala njenga mazolo ebon’ ilanga! Kunjalo ke ngoMkhwanazi – yisitshalo esine milingo – umhlob’ okhethiwe, othandek’ enkosini. Asilokothwa thina. Asenziwa njalo!

To that extent, I say, if bekhona abakwaShamase eZambia, they’re products of uMfecane. Labo abathi study history like myself, know of uMfecane & its consequences. Isizwe sakwaZulu sithe chithi saka eSouthern & Central Africa as a direct consequence of uMfecane. If uya eMozambique, Malawi naseZambia, bakhona oKhumalo, Zulu, Gumede, Nene, Mathe ngokunjalo. Bonke laba yindlu yase Zansi. Izilimi sezehlukile ngoba iminyaka miningi baphuma KwaZulu, kepha abalahliwe, basenga bakithi. I got evidence of that from a former workmate yami ngo 2004-5. She’s from Zambia. Strange thing is: she knew of names like Siphiwe, Gugulethu, Thandiwe, Zanele etc. She said those names were common in Zambia. Common because ngama gama asukele kudala nabo khokho bezindlu eziqhamuke KwaZulu. In other words, they may have lost the Zulu speak, but amagama abaqamba ngawo izingane, imikhuba, nokwenza kusa ncike, to a very large extent esiZulwini.

Language (Ulwimi)
Zwangendaba, musa ukukhuluma insumansumane emini ka bha!

Okusemqoka wena wekunene wukuthi, Bantu languages will have a common word or two. There’s no sin in having a word or two efanayo here & there. Kwasona isiSwahili imbala sinama gama thizeni afana ncamashi nesiZulu. But that does not in any way suggest ukuthi thina maZulu siphuma ebuSwahili. Cha. Put a Swahili man with a Zulu man – izilwimi azizwani, ngeke baze baxoxe bezwane! You’d need the services of an interpreter.

The interesting part comes in uma uthi put umuntu wase buShona nowase buKalanga in one room. I tell you, the two will just gel, baxoxe in their individual mother tongues, without the services of an interpreter (it’s unnecessary) bezwane sengathi bazalwa mma munye. Why? Ngoba ngabendlu yinye kusukela kudala. There was a break away along the way in history, but ngoba bephuma ndawonye, ulimi lusefana, kuyezwanwa, imikhuba minye etc. To a large extent, if you take a Shona sentence & substitute every letter ‘R’ with an ‘L’, voila, you have a perfect Kalanga sentence. I concede that exceptions may exist, but I attribute these to evolution, ukuxubana kwemihlobo nanokuthi amaKalanga wona asuke azitshela ukuthi angamaNdebele, alahla i-original Shona yawo.
Examples: Lopa lakawanda in Kalanga is ropa rakawanda in Shona. Ndodla ndolila in Kalanga is ndodya ndorira in Shona. Sekulu in Kalanga is Sekuru ngesiShona. This is not coincidence. It’s proof of a common origin.

And then, now, I’ll be as blunt as they come. I don’t care how anyone takes it. Iqiniso yiqiniso. Nabu ubufakazi bokuthi amaKalanga namaShona yisizwe sinye: they share the same traits, characteristics & behaviour. Everyone knows amaShona njenga bantu abanga thembakali, aba treacherous, self centered, abano mona etc. Today, I testify ukuthi namaKalanga anjalo. Bulawayo City Council is a bastion of Kalanga-ship. If ungelona iKalanga, ngeke uze uye ndawo: your career will be limited laphaya. Laph’ eMzansi, amaKalanga will discriminate against you, bathi ostracise you if ungeyena owendlu yakubo. They dominate kwi restaurant industry & block the rest of your so-called Mthwakazians (non Kalanga) from employment. AmaKalanga bazoku mpimpa, bakudlel’ umona uma uphumelela. Ngokunjalo, amaKalanga adume ngokugwaza abantu ngombese (knife), ubugebengu bokuntshontsha, armed robberies ne violence is to a large extent a Kalanga domain. Ask any objective person uzovuma. NB: there are exceptions, but the general trend follows what I’ve said.

Moyo

AbakwaMoyo ngamaShona – uyathanda, awuthandi. Bonke oMoyo ngo “Mwoyo ndizvo, vuma varanda, mageza nemukaka, mwoyo dewa etc”. These are their original Shona totems. Lokhu okunye esesikuzwa namhlanje are just bastardisations of the original Shona totems. Kunjalo nje, uzobona ukuthi to a very large extent, the new Moyo totems esesi tshelwa ngazo namhlanje are Ndebele equivalents of the original Shona totems. Which suggests therefore ukuthi amaNdebele akwaMoyo just adapted their Shona totems into their new language (isiNdebele) after assimilation into Mntungwa’s kingdom. They never forsook those totems ngoba ngezabo okwange mpela.
Sad thing is: Moyos seem to be embarrassed to be identified with their Shona origins. In the same vein, now they seek to insist upon the rest of Mthwakazi of Nguni origin to also divorce themselves from ubuZulu babo. That just won’t wash with me. I was a Nkwali from ekuqaleni, ngophila ngize ngife ngiyi Nkwali yenkosi, njalo nesi zukulwane sami sohlala siyiNkwali kude kuyovalwa! Idlozi lami lithethwa isiZulu, liyahlatshelwa, lishiselwe impepho emsamo.


Mab’ amanga, lihl’ iqiniso.

Sengishilo mina wakwaNdonga, uSomkhele, uMtubatuba wangale ngaphesheya koThukela.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Skuvethe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/17/07 11:06 AM

Muntu, Zwangendaba le bandla lonke jikelele.

In a way baf'ethu i focus le thrust ye ngxoxo le isilahlekile, is now misplaced. Ngani-ngoba?
Well, it seems to me there is now more emphasis on and fascination with ethnicity - an altogether dangerous direction to take.
The old model of a Mthwakazi state, predicated as it was on ethnicity and instituted by the founding fathers [and mothers]is now out-dated baf'ethu. The polity of [the] 18th century Mthwakazi state/kingdom cannot, must not be the standard or template for future times.

Namhla, it would be silly to hanker for that old order or caste system - akutheshi, ngeke kutheshe majietas. Today's struggle for the restoration of Mthwakazi statehood must be based on pragmatism hayi narrow-mindedness or indeed capitulation. Kunjalo-nje, a more pragmatic approach/model would be one based on territorial sovereignty and not ethnicity.

I hope labo abakithi abakhokhela umzabalazo bakubona kanjalo otherwise siyabe siyazi diliza thina sisodwa. Kunjalo-nje,
ibambeni, lingay'yeki. Sebenza!
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/17/07 02:26 PM

Bafowethu.

Uxolo Skuvethe. Sengikungena emadevini mfowethu. Bengifuna ukuthi ubaba u Shamase azi ukuthi umlando wakhe uwuthathela endleleni.

Nxa o Moyo bazalwa benga Ba-Lozi/ Balozwi/ Barotse, kwathi abanye babo baba ngamaShona, abanye baba ngamaNdebele, abanye basala belokhu bengabeLozi, does that make umdabu wabo bonke amaShona na? Did the MOYO of Barotseland emigrate from Mashonaland?

Kuthi kunjalo, oShamase badabuka bengamaLozi, Bathunjwa ngokuthandwa zinkosi mhlawumbe abafazi babo babebahle, bacina abanye sebengamaZulu, kodwa umdabu wabo abayisiwo amaZulu. Njalo All ZULU are Nguni, but not all Nguni are ZULU. AmaZULU lawo adabuka ebungunini akha isizwe sabo esesihawukelwa ngabanye. Lathi abakaMthwakazi sidabuka eBudlanondo sifuna ukwakha isizwe esizahawukelwa ngabanye.

Umuntongelakudla uyangirobha. ISIBONGO ESIKHULU YISIPHI PHAKATHI KWALESO ESIDUMILEYO NJENGO MOYO, KUMBE ESISITHELEYO NJENGO SHAMASE. To me this argument yobukhulu besibongo is trivial njalo ngiyaxolisa bandla, kodwa I needed to mention it. Esinye lesinye isibongo SIKHULU KWASO. Ukuthi umuntu uthethela njani loba etshisa imithi njengo Muntongelakudla, loba egidela endlini akubonisi bukhulu, kubonisa ukwehlukana kwezizwe ngokudatshulwa ngoNkulu-Nkulu. Makhosi. LAPHA NGIYAKUCELA BABA MUNTONGELAKUDLA UKUTHI UXOLE, UBUYE UXOLISE NGOBA USUTHUKA BABA. Kanti besithi siyabonisana nje ngembali yezizwe ezehlukeneyo.

AMASHONA AZALWA NGO CHANGAMIRE. ABAZALWA NGO MAMBO. LABO BAZAKUCHASISELA. OMOYO ABASEBUSHONENI BAYAFANA LABO SHAMASE ABASEBUZULWINI, NGOBA ABAYISIBO ABAQALA UBUSHONA, BABUNGENILE NGOKUTHANDA. LABOSHAMASE SEBESESABA UKUBIZWA LOKHO ABAYIKHO KHONA. SEBEVIKA NGOKUTHI AMANGUNI AQANSA ESIYA EZAMBIYA. LAWO MANGUNI AWAQALA KHONA E ZAMBIYA KE, ANGAZANGE ALUGXOBE EZANSI, Do they stop being called Nguni?

Giving an example, suppose they are born by Mambo, why would the child not be called by his father'sname bathiwe ngabaka Mambo? Ngike ngatsho ngathi errors of History, are what some of our people rely on for their past. You may pass your "O" and "A" level but that is PASSING IN REPEATING OMMISSIONS AND DELIBERATE ERRASSURES OF YOUR HISTORY.

Let the MOYO speak for themselves as I have written what my Grand parents spoke for themselves. Njalo ngiyacela abakwa MOYO, abe-Lozwi babe yibo abayiphikayo le ndaba engiyitshoyo lapha.

Skuvethe, ungixolele baba, ngoba nxa IBALA LESISHONA LINGAFANA LELESI KA-LANGA sekuthiwa amaKa-Langa ngama Shona. Kodwa uyavala uMuntu ngingambuza ibala lesiShona elifana lesiZulu, ukuthi sebengamaShona na? Yet Historicaly the Ka-Langa as a people are far older than the Shona who found them alredy settled as someone said "EBUDLANONDO". The Ka-Langa as a people are far older than the Nguni who also passed through their territory, FIRST southwards led by MALANDELA, and then SECONDLY northwards led by Zwangendaba, Ngwane, Nyamatane, Nxaba, and latter intergrated into the Mthwakazi Nation by Mzilikazi. AbaKa-Langa bayakutshela ukuthi inkosi ifika lapha, uMambo ubevele elomngcele wakhe lamaTAPA (AMASHONA), o GURUHUSWA, o CHANGAMIRE. Yiwo lowo mngcele owasetshenziswa ngu Mzilikazi, akazange aweqe. Njalo u Mambo ubuse lo Mzilikazi waze wayalala.

SHAMASE, ngicela wazi ukuthi angikuthuki lapha ngifuna unanzelele iqiniso: Ingoma ziyasitshela: KUDALA KWAKUNGANJE, UMHLAB' UYAPHENDUKA, KWAKUBUS' U MAMBO LO MZILIKAZI......... Siyazihlabela thina abaka Mthwakazi. Yiyo imbali yethu esiyaziyo. Akazange ababuthe emaShoneni uMzilikazi abaka Mambo. Wafika wakha labo. Yimbali yabanikazi le awungeke uyintshintshe. Bayayazi abanikazi as much as you claim to know your own History although you want to detach it from your HUMBLE PAST as if lina abakwenu lawa livela ezulwini kwathiwa esenu isibongo ngesikhulu.

THINA SIKHULA NGAKITHI BESISIZWA OKHULU ABAZALWA LO GOGO UMAGUMEDE OZALA UBABA BESITSHO UKUTHI UMDABU WABO NGABAKA BHEKIZIZWE. WAYENGU MAMBO NJENGOBA NGITSHILO UKUTHI LELI GAMA ELITHI MAMBO LALISETSHENZISWA YIZIZWE EZINENGI. UZULU LO OFUNA UKUZISIKELA KUYE UBEQALE ENGAYISILO INGUNI. U ZULU LO UZALWA NGU BHEKIZIZWE. AKAZALWA NGUMALANDELA. UMALANDELA NGUYE INGUNI LOMDABUKA. UZULU LILOZWI NGOMDABUKA INKABA YAKHE. LOKHO KUTSHIWO NGABANIKAZI BAYO INDLU YAKO BHEKIZIZWE, ABAKO GUMEDE (varient GUMEDZE/ GAMEDZE) LABO BALETHWA EBU NGUNINI NGABANIKAZI BOBUNGUNI, AMANYASA, hatshi AMANYANJA - (because History written by those who study us has failed to follow the different Afrikan Tribal Segments and Fragments and decided ukuthi lowo otholakale kuleli banga will be called this or that, without asking the owners of that History.) Makhosi.

Kusinwa kudedelanwa.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: sikiza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/17/07 02:47 PM

Thina singabantu abakhulu kabi – we just don’t occur noma yikuphi – Hawu yebo libakhulu lenzeni la emhlabeni elenza lize laziwe liqakatheke kangaka lizidutshuze izifuba

like Moyos, Sibandas, Ndlovus, Tshumas, Ncubes & all the other smaller surnames is just one – hawu liqakathekile futhi okwedlula lezi ismall surnames, ngubani olipha lobukhulu, ngabona liphiwe yiAfrica Centre, lapho induna yakini eyisiginjimi khona! I didn’t get the feeling ukuthi liqakatheke as you say ...I’ve been to Mtuba. Wena uyagula ule delusions of grandeur.

Kunjalo nje, bekukhona umakhelwane (indodamfino nje) wakwaSigidi (Ncube I think) owayesa mngoma of some sort. Kuthe kungalindelwe, gwiqiqi wazishintsha isibongo waba nguMkhwanazi. Bonke abantu babamba owange nzansi. Yeyi wena, okwenzeka kuyena after that ngeke uze ukholwe. The man went bonkers, he went bananas, lost his mind & died a directionless, sad poverty stricken man ubese loywe ngabakini

Everyone knows amaShona njenga bantu abanga thembakali, aba treacherous, self centered, abano mona – fancy a pot calling the kettle black. Udaba loMfecane belu qalwe ngubani? Blood thirsty Zulus. If I’m not wrong izimpi zomndeni zikwaZulu hayikhona emaKalangeni. Abalo dli sonke siyazi ukuthi ngobani

Sad thing is: Moyos seem to be embarrassed to be identified with their Shona origins. In the same vein, now they seek to insist upon the rest of Mthwakazi of Nguni origin to also divorce themselves from ubuZulu babo – angikhumbuli abako Moyo saying or insinuating on the above. Paranoia, ulokuyi tunnel vision, proclivity to generalise, make assumptions based on your disordered thinking process. Isizungusikuphethe usudiniwe yikuhlala unwaya amasende khonangapho eMtuba. Uyikhanuka kubi iZimbabwe kanye lezihlobo zakho yikho ulapha eNkundleni.

You need help, ulokuyi insecurity or inferiority complex hence the propensity to try and look good at the expense of others. Ulokuyi obsession on this topic.

Kanti vele abakoMkhwanandzi benzene okumangalisayo? Ngaphandle kokuzala okulizanka with serious underlying esteem problems.
Posted by: Sibambamahawu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/17/07 03:13 PM

maybe
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/17/07 03:23 PM

Zwangendaba

OMoyo ngamaShona. Inkinga wukuthi wena wekunene are prone to distort history ukuze uthi distance yourself from ubuShona bendlu yakini kwaMoyo. You may cheat other people into understanding, but certainly not me. I’ve studied authentic history, was tested at Cambridge & came out with distinction. Those are my credentials and I won’t allow you ukuthi wenzele phansi umlando engiwu funde esikoleni. I will never follow leyo history yakho yezangoma. Izangoma are not an authentic source of historical events. Ezinye izangoma ngo business men – they’re in the spirit media for profit, hoodwinking the gullible & credulous who take all their words as gospel. There’s no historian worth his salt who would seek authentic historical details from abangoma. Authentic historians like Dr Semukula Kiwanuka (Uganda), AJP Taylor (European History guru), Prof Ngwabi Bhebhe & even Prof Stan Mudenge himself would pour scorn on your questionable sources of historical information.

OMoyo ngamaShona & the sooner all of them accept this, the better for everyone. Otherwise mina nawe soqhubeka siphonselana inyoka esigungwini over into engekho. Anyone that disputes ukuthi every Moyo is: “Mwoyo ndizvo ndizvo, vuma varanda, mageza nemukaka, mwoyo dewa” is a liar, a clown and a delusional fool.

I need not add more on the similarity yesiShona nesiKalanga. It’s no coincidence – it’s proof of imvela ndawonye yabo. Kwayena Mambo loyo oziqhenya ngaye, he’s the same man amaShona abiza ngayo inkosi uMvelinqangi. Oliver Mtukudzi has a song whose lyrics go: “Ndirangarirewo Mambo blah, blah”. AmaShona namaKalanga are two sides of the same coin. Kwazona izenzo zabo ziyefana. That you haven’t disputed the issue yesikhekhelembane samaKalanga KwaBulawayo City Council, kunye nobu ndlobongela babo laph’ eMzansi, speaks for itself. Iqiniso uyalazi. Mina nginyama nambana kinina laph’ esigungwini ngoba ngimi ngeqiniso. I’m not going to despair. I’ll continue speaking the truth, against all odds, till the heavens fall. I care less about those idiots that insult my person. They must just get a life! Inarticulate foul mouths! Bloody goons!

Mina Nkwali angeke ngize ngihlanganiswe namaShona. Akukaze kwaba noMkhwanazi wasebuShona, buKalanga, buVenda, buZambezi. We're a special breed - above lezo zinhlanga.

Sengishilo mina Nkwali yenkosi, uNdong’ omkhulu wangale ngaphesheya koThukela.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Sibambamahawu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/17/07 05:01 PM

sekushubile
Posted by: Zela

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/18/07 06:45 AM

Originally Posted By: Muntongenakudla
Zwangendaba
And then, now, I’ll be as blunt as they come. I don’t care how anyone takes it. Iqiniso yiqiniso. Nabu ubufakazi bokuthi amaKalanga namaShona yisizwe sinye: they share the same traits, characteristics & behaviour. Everyone knows amaShona njenga bantu abanga thembakali, aba treacherous, self centered, abano mona etc. Today, I testify ukuthi namaKalanga anjalo. Bulawayo City Council is a bastion of Kalanga-ship. If ungelona iKalanga, ngeke uze uye ndawo: your career will be limited laphaya. Laph’ eMzansi, amaKalanga will discriminate against you, bathi ostracise you if ungeyena owendlu yakubo. They dominate kwi restaurant industry & block the rest of your so-called Mthwakazians (non Kalanga) from employment. AmaKalanga bazoku mpimpa, bakudlel’ umona uma uphumelela. Ngokunjalo, amaKalanga adume ngokugwaza abantu ngombese (knife), ubugebengu bokuntshontsha, armed robberies ne violence is to a large extent a Kalanga domain. Ask any objective person uzovuma. NB: there are exceptions, but the general trend follows what I’ve said.
Shamase Nkwali yenkosi


This is news to me.it is shocking ngiqinisile.
Posted by: bongani

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/26/07 05:40 PM

this is a very interesting topic, bakwethu!!! Kanti wena Muntu ongenakudla, ulambile yini baba??? kutheni uzokhoza ikhonfusion lapha uthuka abantu bethu. uyabhowa wena member...buyela back lapha ovela khona usitshiye thina sizikholisela lamahole ethu...akusilima sindebe kwabo!!!
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/29/07 01:26 AM

Bafowethu.

Ngincindezele:
________________________________________________________________________________________
To that extent, I say, if bekhona abakwaShamase eZambia, they’re products of uMfecane. Labo abathi study history like myself, know of uMfecane & its consequences.
________________________________________________________________________________________

SHAMASE, NKWALI YE NKOSI.

Ngifuna sizwanane lapha. Studying History and knowing History are two different things. E Zambia kulomhlobo okuthiwa amaZwangendaba. Zinzula lezo baba. Ngiyabazi ngoba ngagida labo. Yikho lapho othola khona amabizo afana labo GUGULETHU SIPHIWE etc.

Abakwa Shamase ngabe LOZWI, njalo bayayibeka imbali yabo okusobala. Bayabazi ubuhlobo babo lamaZwangendaba. Abazange babe "Products of Mfecane". When the Zwangendaba (PRODUCTS OF MFECANE) got to present day Zambia, bakwa SHAMASE were already there. FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF, do not use suppositions like the SCHOLARLY HISTORIANS WHOSE WORKS ARE YOUR REFERENCE.

TAKE THESE THINGS CHRONOLOGICALY. The LOZI are far older than the SHONA. Some Lozi people migrated to SHONA TERITORY and intergrated with the Shona. But their origins are LOZI/ROZWI/BAROTSE. The Shamase you find in S.A. are just but a brunch of the Shamase of BAROTSELAND.

DO NOT DENY YOUR ORIGINS, UZAFULATHELWA NGABAKWENU. IT IS NOT A DISGRACE TO BE A LOZI BECAUSE SOME LOZI PEOPLE ENDED UP BEING SHONA. YOU ARE A LOZI EVEN WHEN YOU ATTAIN YOUR NEW ACQUIRED ZULU STATUS.

The Lozi are a mighty people. Be proud of what you are.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/30/07 08:01 AM

Zwangendaba

Asiyi bambe lapho baba. Let's agree to disagree. Wena qhubeka ukholelwa kuloyo mlando wakho owuthola kubangoma bakho. Nami ngo qhubeka ngiphethe umlando oncike ezincwadini zochwepheshe be history. Besides, I'm getting sick & tired of olopholo bakini laba ababhoke ngokungi thuka.

On a parting shot, I say, indlu yakwethu ngiyayazi, angidingi kudukiswa uwena, ukhefuza amanga ngemvelaphi yakwethu. Zwangs, wena awuyena wakwaNkwali, njalo angeke uze ukukhathalele ukwazi iqiniso ngendlu engeyona yakwenu. Mina ke, nginguShamase wangempela, inkwali yenkosi yangale ngaphesheya koThukela, & I've made it my lifetime aim to know where uShamase originates. To that extent, sengihambe yonk' indawo yangakithi la KwaZulu, ngifuna abakithi ukuze bangichazele ngobu mina. Inkosi yakwaNkwali, u-John ozalwa wuMuntongenakudla laphaya Ongoye, eMpangeni, uyangazi. Sihlezi sithintana ocingweni. Ngokunjalo, uMinias ozalwa wuMtubatuba, inkosi yakwaNkwali laph' eMtubatuba naye ungiphethe. After meeting all these eminent royal Nkwalis, bangichathekela ngemvelaphi yami, bangibonisa nemikhuba yendlu yangakithi, I won't allow a mere Zwangendaba ngolimi lwakhe olunga cacanga, olubheke eceleni kuhle kojosaka, angitshele into engekho. Cha ngeke wethu. Just stay out of indaba yakwaMkhwanazi.

Sengigadle zephuka

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Nqoba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/01/07 01:16 PM

Naturally the Mthwakazi are militant. They are resilient, firm and with high tenacity of purpose. Kuyafakazeka lokhu kuzilobo ezilapha kuleli khasi. Kodwa ke madoda linkulumo eliyiphetheyo iyini umbuso uchithekile kanje. Kungani singashukumi kanje sibhekise kusitha labe tshabi kulokusadalala against each other. Yona mbali leyo iligugu bani uba ingayi kuguqula inamhla yethu lekusasa. Are there no material issues to be aggressive about and forego this conversation? Yebo lingaaatsho ubunhle bengxoxo yenu but umbuso uchitheka na madoda? Ikusasa yenzalo yenu ifiphala? Is this how uMzilikazi built the nation? Priorities majitha, priorities ngiyaphinda njalo, ayiqine imidlambula sitshela uRobathi ubunguye bakhe, sikhonkothela abetshabi until we are uncontrollable, and force another Lancaster house. Because we still need to go back to the drawing board umbuso uyedwetshwa kutsha abakoMthwakazi bakhululwe ezimbagweni. As we speak, it is easy for robathi to harrass the likes of bhishopho ngoba uba ngokuyi-isolated being okukhononayo. Akube ngumvukela. Lonke elijika amagama lapha liwajikele kuye urobathi, angeke abe lawo amandla okuyangisa umvukela we-nation. Khona manje siyabuzana ukuthi unkomo liqhawe yini kume i-villian, kungani singabuzani ukuthi phezu kwesibindi sakhe lokuzinikela ayengaphi amanye amadoda to make up for his short comings. Where he fell short kwakuhle kufadalale, and thina we are quick to come up with critiques zokuthi liqhawe, yisitha njani njani, kanti thina siyini kusapho lwethu.
Silakho ukwazi imbali yethu siteme sivungame, kodwa kusizani singala ngakithi yokuzigqaja ngayo?
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/01/07 01:53 PM

Bafowethu.

Ngincindezele.

____________________________________________________________________________________________
Zwangs, wena awuyena wakwaNkwali, njalo angeke uze ukukhathalele ukwazi iqiniso ngendlu engeyona yakwenu. Mina ke, nginguShamase wangempela, inkwali yenkosi yangale ngaphesheya koThukela, & I've made it my lifetime aim to know where uShamase originates.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Baba SHAMASE. Angilwi Nkwali ye-nkosi. I feel I have driven my point home.

This is exactley my POINT. Wena awusuye MOYO, BATALAHUNDA. Bayayazi indlu yabo oBATALAHUNDA. You are not qualified to DISTORT their History from Books written by HALF RESEARCH AND SPITE FOR THE AFRIKAN.

As far as oSHAMASE are concerned, bakhona e ZAMBIA.

If all MOYO's are related which I assume we agree, then ALL SHAMASE ARE RELATED. Do not forget that even your half researched HISTORY of the BANTU narates that ALL BANTUS CAME FROM CENTRAL AFRIKA AND MIGRATED NORTH AND SOUTH. What could have stopped other SHAMASES remaining as LOZI which is one of the OLDEST BANTU TRIBES, whilst the others migrated South and were CAPTURED by the ZULUS and today want to deny their origin?????

Ngiphendule khonapho. Which SHAMASE IS OLDER, the one who remained in the ORIGINAL TRIBE (LOZI) or the one owadukayo wayadojwa ngamaZULU laye wahle wakha waba liQHAWE????? Does that stop YOU from being BLOOD RELATIVES?????

Okokutsheka ko LIMI angisoze ngikuphendulele eceleni baba. ISINGUNI sibanzi. Wena ukuluma esangakini lakimi ngingajika ngithole angani sitshekile.

Ngizakunqanda mfana. Elamani?????

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/01/07 03:15 PM

Zwangendaba

Manje ke sesizo dingida indaba yakwaMkhwanazi. You asked for it and I'll oblige you.

Here we go. I'll ask you just one question & if you answer it correctly, then we'll continue this ping pong of ideas.

Inkweshe (question) yami ithi ene: abantu bakwaMkhwanazi babevele bebizwa ngesibongo, Mkhwanazi, na ekuqaleni?

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: SINATHAMAHEWU

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/01/07 09:46 PM

Ehena mina ngiphakeme!

Ehena yimina uNdebenkulu!

Inkwali yeNkosi!

Nginezimoto zami, ehene izimoto zami

Ngeze ngigibele ngamahashi,

hk hk hk hk hk hk
Posted by: Jakalas

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/06/07 10:09 AM

AmaHlubi reject Zulu links
The Sowetan
Canaan Mdletshe
3 August 2007

The amaHlubi tribe is one of six tribes that will go before the Nhlapo Commission later this month to contest their kingship.

The tribe says it has never been part of the Zulu kingdom.

The once mighty tribe originates from Eastern Congo in the present day Democratic Republic of Congo and migrated southward as part of the eMbo group from central Africa.

They are known as the Bashubi in Rwanda and Burundi.

Several sources suggest that the amaHlubi settled in KwaZulu-Natal as far back as the 13th century and occupied territory that included Umzinyati, Utrecht, Alcockspruit, Newcastle, Mnambithi, Colenso, Mooi River, Mtshezi, Loteni, Bergville and areas along the Klip River and Buffalo River.

The AmaHlubi are known to have had run-ins with Zulu king Dingaan and his son, Mpande. Historical documents say Dingane killed Dlomo, a son of King Mthimkulu of the AmaHlubi tribe.

Historians suggest that Dlomo was killed because Dingane was in the process of consolidating his power and was not comfortable with the resurrection of the Hlubi ruling house.

He saw this as a threat to his rule near his borders and was keen to neutralise nearby tribes who showed any inclination towards autonomous rule.

The documents say that after their conflict with the Zulu king Mpande, the amaHlubi tribe fled to Mnambithi, under the leadership of Langalibalele, across the Buffalo into Natal in 1848.

The Hlubi settled along the Klip River – a move that was a clear display of the amaHlubi’s refusal to be subjected to the rule of the Zulus.

http://www.sowetan.co.za/article.aspx?ID=531136

Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/06/07 12:10 PM

Jakalas

I watched Xolani Gwala interviewing the Hlubi & Tembe representatives izolo kuhlelo lwakhe i-Asikhulume/Let's Talk kwi SABC 1.

The Hlubi representative was clear ukuthi bona abazange babe ngaphansi kombuso waKwaZulu. I say, lawo ngamanga aluhlaza. AmaHlubi akhele ebaQulusini (Natal Midlands, koNyukhasela noMnambithi) ayenga phansi kwengonyama yakwaZulu, umlilo wothathe, uShaka Zulu. Kuthe ekukhothameni kweSilo uShaka, kwayikhona amaHlubi evusa ubukhosi bawo beduba iSilo samabandla onke sendlu kaZulu.

In perspective therefore, I say, amaHlubi must accept ukuthi iSilo samabandla onke, uBhejan' ephum' esiqiwini, uGoodwill Zwelithini Zulu, yingonyama yabo nabo. Uma befuna ukuvusa ingonyama yabo, mabayi vuse le koRwanda & so forth. Angeke kuze kube nezinkunzi ezimbili esibayeni esisodwa. Otherwise iyophakwa impi kaZulu, bahlaselwe. Mabaphakelwe amanqe, zilambile izinyoni zezulu!

AbakwaTembe bona ke indaba yabo i-straight forward. Laba ngabantu basebuThonga, abakhele indawo yaKwaZulu ebizwa, KwaMhlabuhlangene. Bona ke abakwaTembe laba ngokwendabuko, banga bantu base Mzambikhwe (Mozambique).Indlu yabo encane yiyona eyafuduka yangena endaweni yaKwaZulu. UTembe loyo ababizwa ngaye wuyena umsunguli wesizwe sabo. Lendoda kuthiwa yayingeyo zalo lukaNdawu, iKaranga.

As such, oTembe laba abafanele neze ukudlalela emakhanda ethu. Banga bantu bokuza lapha KwelikaMthaniya. Bawu gwayi wokugxunyekwa, amankengane (foreigners). If befuna ukuvuselela ingonyama yabo, mabaye eMzambikhe. That's their rightful place from whence they can revive iSilo sabo sase buTembe.

In summary, I say, for as long as the Hlubis & Tembes occupy the KwaZulu territory, they must acknowledge that iSilo samabandla onke, uBhejan' ephum' esiqiwini, yiyona inkosi yamakhosi & they're his subordinates. Failing which, bophakelwa amanqe!

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi

Posted by: Skuvethe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/06/07 12:43 PM

Quote:
In summary, I say, for as long as the Hlubis & Tembes occupy the KwaZulu territory, they must acknowledge that iSilo samabandla onke, uBhejan' ephum' esiqiwini, yiyona inkosi yamakhosi & they're his subordinates. Failing which, bophakelwa amanqe!


Yiwo umcijo ebengiwutshilo kuthangi - namhlanje izizwe zifuna territorial sovereignty first and foremost. The Zulu kingdom clearly is a melting-pot of ethnic groups, with amaZulu at the top.
Mthwakazi unjalo nawo, a melting-pot of tribes but ngizaphinda ngithi ethnicity cannot be the defining aspect in such heterogenous societies. Uyang'thola Muntu?
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/06/07 01:28 PM

Bafowethu.

Baba Shamase. Umbuzo wakho unzima.

Ngincindezele:
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Inkweshe (question) yami ithi ene: abantu bakwaMkhwanazi babevele bebizwa ngesibongo, Mkhwanazi, na ekuqaleni?
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Impendulo zami zimbili lapha baba.
1. Angingeke ngatsho ngendlu yangakini ukuthi yaqala ithiwa Mkhwananzi na? KODWA ENGIKWAZIYO, ENGAKUBONAYO, YIKUTHI OSHAMASE BAKHONA EBULOZWI, NJALO AKUSIBO LABA ABADUKA NGOMFECANE. Therefore, if the Shamase are ONE, then you are a ZAMBIAN.

2. Esintwini AMABIZO bekusenzakala ukuthi liphindwe loba kangaki ezizukulwaneni zaloyo owaliqalayo lelo BIZO. Kungenzakala ukuthi lisese Zambia, lalithiwa Shamase, lathi ngokwanda kwesizwe senu laba labanye abathiwa Mkhwananzi. NANKU BELOKHU BEZAZI UKUTHI LOBA BENGO MKHWANANZI, KODWA IMVELI YABO YAKO SHAMASE ABAYILAHLI, BALONDA UMZILA LAPHO ABAVELA KHONA.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/06/07 02:35 PM

Zwangendaba

Musa ukukhuluma indaba onga yazi. Wuku khefuza amanga lokho. Mab' amanga, lihl' iqiniso.

From a Zulu perspective, there’s a difference between isibongo nesithakazelo. UMkhwanazi yisibongo sendlu kaMdolomba, umsunguli wendlu yakwaNkwali. UShamase yisithakazelo sakwaMkhwanazi. Uma ungawazi umahluko phakathi kwesibongo nesithakazelo shono, ebese mina Nkwali yenkosi ngiyakuchazela.

From a Zulu perspective, isibongo siza kuqala kunesi thakazelo. Angeke kube nesithakazelo, isibongo singekho. Kepha kungaba nesibongo, isithakazelo singekho. Kudala abantu abamnyama besafuduka from Central Africa to Southern Africa, yayingekho into yesibongo. Abantu babebizwa ngamagama nje vo. At that point, wayengekho uMkhwanazi njenge sibongo. Sasingekho nesithakazelo sakwaShamase kubantu. Therefore, if kuno Shamase waseZambia, njalo loyo Shamase kuyisibongo sakhe, (as opposed to isithakazelo sakhe), then those people are not Mkhwanazi ngesibongo. They’re not even related to indlu yangakithi kwaNkwali.They’re creatures of creation engingahlobene nazo, njalo enginga ngeni ngandawo kumlando wazo. I have nothing to do with them, just as they have nothing to do with me. I therefore can't speak on their account because angisi lona igidelandlini lase buZambezi (Zambia).

UShamase, njengesithakazelo sendlu yakwaNkwali, uqhamuke emva kokuba khona kwesibongo sakwaMkhwanazi. Isibongo sakwaMkhwanazi siqale KwaZulu. The very first person ukubizwa ngesi bongo, Mkhwanazi, ebeKwaZulu. Ngokunjalo, uShamase uqhamuke kubantu bakwaMkhwanazi sebe khuluma isiZulu. UShamase lona yigama lesiZulu, elisho ukugqama – rather like shimmering, shining & glowing. UShamase akulona igama lomuntu. Cha. Ngingasho ngithi nje, isithakazelo, Shamase, kubantu bakwaMkhwanazi, yingqikithi yokucaca kwabo, bagqame emphakathini, bathandeke enkosini, babeyi nsila yenkosi (yingakho sizi biza ngeNkwali yenkosi). It’s a Zulu word, implying ukuthi anyone using lesi sithakazelo, is an offshoot of uMkhwanazi, ophuma KwaZulu, othetha idlozi lakhe ngesiZulu, hhayi ngemikhuba yamagidelandlini asebuZambezi.

In summary, therefore, if kukhona umuntu outside Zululand, osebenzisa uShamase njengesithakazelo, then he is of Zulu extraction, uphuma endlini yakwaMkhwanazi, yinkwali yenkosi, ngokaSomkhele.

I won't comment about a person whose surname (& not isithakazelo) is Shamase because I have no clue what stripe of person they are & their origin is of no concern kimina.

Angihlobene naye.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/06/07 04:27 PM

Bafowethu.

Uyabona ke manje ukuthi UYAZUNGELEZA. Indaba isendenini kepha uyayivika ngokucabanga ukuthi ukhaliphile.

Ngincindezele:
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Kudala abantu abamnyama besafuduka from Central Africa to Southern Africa, yayingekho into yesibongo.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Uyavuma phela ukuthi savela eCENTRAL AFRIKA SONKE. Kanti manje okwenza wena ubone angani waphongu kuwa waba li ZULU kuyini?

Ngesikhathi SIVELA e CENTRAL AFRIKA SONKE, sasiyizizwana ezehlukeneyo. Izizwe ezinkulu ezazisazakala ngama Luba, amaLuwanda (LUNDA), amaTonga (Thonga), abeLozi (MAMBO) to which ZULU and QWABE/QHWABE are born, abaMangwe, abeNyasa (and not Nyanja) abeLawu and aBathwa ngaleso sikhathi. Zazalana zanda zachitheka ezinye zakha amagama amatsha.

Ngincindezele:
_________________________________________________________________________________________
From a Zulu perspective, there’s a difference between isibongo nesithakazelo. UMkhwanazi yisibongo sendlu kaMdolomba, umsunguli wendlu yakwaNkwali. UShamase yisithakazelo sakwaMkhwanazi.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Ngibona angani isiZULU sakho sehlukene lesamanye amaZULU. Akula mehluko phakathi kweSIBONGO nesi THAKAZELO. IsiThakazelo is a PROGRESSION of isibongo. Isibongo esisetshenziswa lamhlanje singaba yisiThakazelo kusapho olulandelayo. Kubuye kuthi phambili ezinye izizukulwane zisivuse leso Sithakazelo sisetshenziswe njenge sibongo. Akula mehluko. Sengiyabona ukuthi isizulu usasifunda ndoda.

1. eg Sithi u ZULU ezele uGumede. U Gumede kube liBIZO. Uzathiwa ngu Gumede WakwaZulu. Angakha uZulu isizwe sakhe sibebanzi, Abantabakhe kuzakuba lo Ndonsi, loGama. Sekusiba yiSIVE lesi (ZULU CLAN). Bonke laba bantu ISIBONGO SABO ngu ZULU. Isi THAKAZELO sabo ngu ZULU. Isibongo is a Clan name/ isithakazelo is a clan name (after the founder of that clan).

2. U Gumede laye ebesezala isive sakhe sande. Azale oNqindi, oDoliya, oShangwe. Singaba yisizwe, usapho lwakhe seluzazibiza ngeBIZO laloyo osidabuleyo leso sizwe. Bonke abazalwa phansi kwalendlu sebebizwa BABONGWE ngesi THAKAZELO sako Gumede. Kodwa abasoze balibale ukuthi oKHOKHOLOGO babo ngo ZULU.

3. Kusisa u Shangwe angazala athande ukubiza usapho lwakhe ngesiThakazelo athi IBIZO lomntanakhe ngu ZULU. Akula cala. Sekusiba libizo loba ezinye izizwe azalana lazo zilokhu zilisebenzisa lelo BIZO ngeSIBONGO/ISITHAKAZELO.

Awusazi isiZulu. Usasifunda jaha.

Ngincindezele:
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
I therefore can't speak on their account because angisi lona igidelandlini lase buZambezi (Zambia).
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Since we all came from CENTRAL AFRIKA, and babesala abanye endleleni sisiza e Southern Afrika, we can not deny our relatives ABAGIDELA ENDLINI especialy when THEY BEAR OUR AMABIZO, IZIBONGO, IZITHAKAZELO.

A LITTLE ADVICE. ISIZULU IS ONE AND NOT THE ONLY LANGUAGE OF THE NGUNI. THERE ARE OTHER NGUNI LANGUAGES TODAY THAT HAVE NO GRAMATICAL RELATION TO ZULU. YIKHO WENA NGOKUNGAZI KWAKHO UZABONA ANGANI ABANYE ABANTU YIZIWULA.

Li Zwangendaba.



Posted by: Madlenya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/06/07 05:30 PM

Nantu ulibo lokuzalana kwabendlu yakwaZulu::

http://www.tintasafaris.co.za/zulu-genealogy.html

The Genealogy of the Zulu Kings.



Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/07/07 10:17 AM

Zwangendaba

You evaded indaba yakwaMkhwanazi & chose to cling desperately to peripheral issues. Ngokunjalo ngiyakuxolela, ngoba sekuyaku cacela kuhle kwengquza yembuzi ukuthi indlu yakwaMkhwanazi ayihlobene neze nama gidelandlini akini ebuZambezi. You failed to explain the connection between your alleged pre-Mfecane Zambian Shamases & me. You failed because leyo nto ayikho – ngama mpunge!

I’ll take my time to whisper into your ear, hoping that it reaches your ear as a shout that: isibongo sakwaMkhwanazi nesithakazelo saso uShamase siqale KwaZulu. Before then, besingekho. To that extent, there can never be a pre-Mfecane Mkhwanazi in Zambia.

Zwangendaba, you can fool bonke lab’ olopholo bakini abaku khonzile, who take every product of your fertile imagination as gospel truth. Ngeshwa, you certainly can’t fool ungqesta oyimina. You’ve been bleating and mooing (okwash’ insizwa yakith’ uMthiyane) laph’ esigungwini, trumpeting amanga uthi ene, wawuyi dedicated sigagayi sempi yenkululeko yeZIPRA esalwa kwiZambia front. Ngoba you were semi-literate, you’d obviously have been a mere foot soldier, without rank, wawungelutho - uwuquqaba olukhahlelwa ngama commander, running barefoot on the battlefront: udubula kuphela uma u-commander eseshilo! To that extent, the contention that you simultaneously became a sangoma-centred historical researcher cum foot soldier is a shameless lie. I reiterate: only olopholo bakini believe this bunk. Mina kaSomkhele ngithi: wena wawuyi mbacu (isithwalambiza) or a mujibha (ie ZANLA war spy)!

Be that as it may, I’ll pursue you right to the corner where you’ve scurried for cover. I’ll poke you out. The beauty of my approach is that I rely on authentic published sources, as opposed to your dreams (or is it nightmares) of your fake soothsayers! I hit you with facts: straight on your weather beaten old face Zwangs. Mina I’ve looked in the following books:
Udosi by Sebenzile Olga Khanyile & Dr Hamilton Phiwayinkosi Mayise.
Mageba Lazihlonza by BB Ndelu.
Uphoko by Dr Sipho Regie Khumalo.
Izithakazelo zezibongo zaKwaZulu by Dr Thamsanqa E Sithole

These authors enunciate the difference phakathi kwesibongo nesithakazelo. It seems noma kunjalo, I know nothing – as you profess wena Zwangendaba. Now, tell me: if isibongo nesi thakazelo kuyinto yinye:

1. Why do we have abantu besibongo sakwaNkosi (Ndlangamandla) sharing the same sithakazelo (being Mntungwa kaMbulazi) with abakwaKhumalo naba kwaMabaso? Surely if isithakazelo is the same as isibongo, then we wouldn’t have 3 izibongo & 1 isithakazelo! Would it be proper & acceptable to change abantu bakwaNkosi, Khumalo noMabaso babe nesi bongo esisodwa esithi Mntungwa noma Mbulazi?
2. Abantu bezibongo Gwala, oNzimande kunye noMhlongo ngoMphephethwa ngesithakazelo. Can you change the 3 surnames into 1: ie Mphephethwa?
3. Abantu bezibongo Ngcobo noShangase ngo Vumezitha ngesithakazelo. Can you change their surnames into 1: ie Vumezitha?
4. Abantu bezibongo Msimang no Xaba ngo Nonkosi ngesithakazelo. Can you change their surnames into 1: ie Nonkosi?

Zwangendaba, don’t evade the questions, don’t stray ubhale izinto ezise celeni. There’s a series of issues I’ve raised ngasenhla & you’ve dodged them. This time please face the questions 1 by 1 & answer them convincingly.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi



Posted by: eLangeni

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/07/07 11:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Muntongenakudla


oMhlongo ngoMphephethwa



May you please elaborate on this coz mina uMhlongo uthi yena uMhlongo nguDlomo abuye futhi abizwe uMakhedama wena owaduk'umhlaba wabuy'usugibel'imbongolo.

I am aware that bakhona oMhlongo kwelikaMthaniya oMhlongo abango Njomane(yena uMakhedama) nabo Mahlokohloko but uMphephetwa I was not aware of please share.


Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/07/07 12:23 PM

Elangeni

Read my posting. This time with your eyes open. I've credited & listed my sources. Go read them & learn.

Izithakazelo ziningi. You don't just quote one or two zithakazelo zenzwabethi & believe them to be the all end all.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/07/07 03:04 PM

Bafowethu.

NGIYATHOKOZA NGOBA USUDOBHELA. SEKUSOBALA UKUTHI USUNTSHUMA NJE NGOBA AWUSELAWO OKUZISUNGULA EKULAHLEKENI KWAKHO. USUKHULUMA NGOBU ZIPRA BAMI, ayisiyo ndaba ka Shamase. USUKHULUMA NGOKUNGAFUNDANGA KWAMI, ayisiyo ndaba kaShamase.

SENGIKWEHLULE.

Ngincindezele ngokulotshwe nguwe NZARAYAPENGA (Zulu lied to M'Ntongelakudla) hk hk hk, lami ngiyazidlalela:
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Ngokunjalo, uShamase uqhamuke kubantu bakwaMkhwanazi sebe khuluma isiZulu.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

NGAMA GAMA AKHO LA NZARAYAPENGA. "Sebe khuluma isiZulu". BENGAKASIKHULUMI ISIZULU BABEKHULUMA LIMI BANI??????????

Angiyiviki indaba yangakini "NGAMAFUPHI", hk hk hk ngithi, UNLIKE YOU WHO PURPOTS TO NARATE OTHER PEOPLE's HISTORIES WITH SPITE, MINA ANGIYKWAZI UKUTHI OWAQALAYO ENDLINI YANGAKINI PHAKATHI KUKA SHAMASE LO MKHWANAZI NGUBANI. Am I a lier for not knowing that?????????

ENGIKWAZIYO NJALO I CHALLENGE YOU TO RESEARCH, YIKUTHI BAKHONA OSHAMASE ABALOKHU BEKHULUMA ULIMI ELALILUKHULUMA "NZARA", LINGAKAKHULUMI ISIZULU. You said so yourself. Uthe "Sebekhuluma isiZULU". Yimi engitshonjalo na?

USUDOBHELA KULOKUTHI SILWE KUHLE. UYAROBHA NZARAYAPENGA.

My war CREDENTIALS will only be displayed by my loving family and ONLY AFTER I AM DEAD, ngoba thina esintwini sithi, umuntu ubongwa esefile. Lingangibongi manje ngoba ngingajika ngilithengise liphelelwe ngamandla. BUT THAT DOES NOT STOP ME FROM MENTIONING MY EXPERIENCES DURING THAT WAR. Makhosi.

My standard of education is not for your consumption as I am happy with the lowest level that my little brain managed to cary me to. ESINTWINI njalo sithi BONGA OKUNCANE. Makhosi.

THE POINT I WAS PUTTING ACROSS USUVIKA NGOKUNGIBUZA IZINDLU ZANGAKINI ANGANI NGIZALWA KO NZARA MINA WAS, "In as much as ungasadalala uzama ukuzenza an original ZULU, which you are not ngoba LALISAKHULUMA OLUNYE ULIMI, azi ukuthi banengi abazalwa kuleyo ndlu kaZULU abanye bengabantwana bezi NTOMBI." In as much as ungasadalala uze usuze, ungabakwazi okwangakini, kodwa awusoze ubekwazi okwezindlu zako MOYO. Abako MOYO yibo abazaziyo. That was my point. Angikwazi okwako MKHWANANZI. But your very NARATION here indicates that YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM OTHER BANTU. YOU CAME FROM CENTRAL AFRIKA. THAN SUDDENLY THERE IS A GIDELENDLINI WHO SHARES YOUR NAME. WHO SHARES ISIBONGO SAKHO. WHO SHARES ISITHAKAZELO SAKHO. USUJIKA AWUSAFUNI UKUTHI LOYO MUNTU AZAKALE NGOBA UYAKUYANGISA. SEKUNGANI AMAZULU LAWO ELALINGAKHULUMI ULIMI LWABO, SELILUKHULUMA MANJE, ANGCWELE.

Thank you for being EDUCATED and ELOQUENT, bengingakwazi ukuthi lalikhuluma OLUNYE ULIMI lingakakhulumi isizulu. That is the other point you are SAYING IT YOURSELF uphinde uzenze umvundla uyivike. SHAMASE, NKARI YA NGOSI.

Waqala wathi isibhozwa akusiso siZulu. The Zulu dictionary says otherwise. Olamanga ngubani????? Ususithi Isithakazelo akusiso sibongo: ZULU DICTIONARY by Doke/Malcolm/Sikakana and Vilakazi, published by the WITWATERSRAND UNIVERSITY PRESS, page 85 in the Brooklyn Library says, - "ISIBONGO - 1.Clan name. eg ISIBONGO SAKHE NGOWAKA GUMEDE. 2.Praises or praise name." Iphinde i Dictionary ithi yona compre with ISITHAKAZELO. ISITHAKAZELO - 1.flatttering praise. 2.Tribal salutation perculiar to each CLAN eg THE QWABE ARE ADDRESED AS GUMEDE. Therefore Gumede is their Clan name. Ezinye izizalwana phambili ziyathatha u Qwabe abe yi Clan name. Isibongo, isithakazelo ALL CLAN AND PRAISE NAMES.

Ngibuze Nzarayapenga, oQwabe yibo bodwa na oGUMEDE?????

Ungadobheli futhi.

NGIYAPHINDA NJALO, AKULA MEHLUKO PHAKATHI KWESIBONGO LESITHAKAZELO. IBIZO LINGAGUQUKA LIBE YISIBONGO (Clan name). IBIZO LINGAGUQUKA LIBE YISITHAKAZELO (Clan name).

Zitshonjalo izangoma. Makhosi.

Li Zwangendaba.


Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/07/07 03:14 PM

Bafowethu.

Lingixolele, kusinwa kudedelanwa. Ngingakaphumi eskweyeni ngizaphinda ngibuye, I have this last thin:

Ngincindezele from Nzarayapenga (Zulu lied Muntongelakudla)
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Izithakazelo ziningi. You don't just quote one or two zithakazelo zenzwabethi & believe them to be the all end all.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Likhona na elinye iqinisa elingedlula leli.

IN AS MUCH AS IT IS MEANT FOR Elangeni, IT IS MORE SO MEANT FOR THE AUTHOR.

Makhosi.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/07/07 04:18 PM

Zwangendaba

Before siya phambili, may I explain kuwena ukuthi the correct direct grammatical interpretation of Nzarayapenga is, Indlal’ ibhokile, and not Muntongenakudla. Musa ukugiya ngethambo lenyama ongayidlile khehlandini.

Back to the thread. Zwangendaba, don’t fool around ngento ongayazi. Ngiyaku dabukela ngoba you have no academic credentials in the subject of history. Uqine ngezangoma zakho zasebu Zambezi. Mhlasimbe zakuloya! Shame muntu wenkosi. My free advice: funa ama voodoo specialists laph’ e-New York, bakuchathe, uphalaze, ugqume, uncinde – then you’ll start thinking clearly; ebese uya esikoleni uthole ukuqeqesheka ukuze uthi adopt an academic approach to history.

Since you confess ignorance as to what came first between isibongo, Mkhwanazi, ne sithakazelo, Shamase, I’ll take my time to give you a free lecture – ngisuse ifu elimnyama loku ngazi kwakho. Issue is, isibongo sakwaMkhwanazi nesithakazelo, Shamase, siqale KwaZulu, njalo ingqikithi yaso isesiZulwini. Before that, thina besinga bakwaMpukunyoni, then saba ngaba kwaMnqobokazi. Whether besikhuluma isiZulu or not before the surname Mkhwanazi was derived is neither here no there. There can never have been a Shamase owasala eZambia, when Mkhwanazi (the surname othakazelwa ngoShamase) wasn’t even in existence then. A cart doesn’t come before the horse.

Ngizoku buza: where did those alleged pre-Mfecane Zambian Shamases bakho get the word, Shamase, from ngoba isiZulu abazange baze basazi? Or they dreamt of the word, assisted by your daydreaming soothsayers! Get real Zwangendaba. Issue is, wena uzama ukuthi score cheap points ngoku dicilela isidima sendlu yangakithi phansi ngamanga akho. Manje ngeke uze ulunge, I’m exposing you for the upstart you are.

On your obsession about isibhozo as meaning eight, well guess what, angisiyena umonase. Ngokunjalo, I’ll make you excited like the proverbial pig in the mud (uze ujuluke ezinqeni) by saying: well, take the victory; it’s yours Mr Maseko. Mind you, Maseko is of Malawian origins.

On the dictionary yakho leyo ogabisa ngayo njenge gwababa lipheth' umgodo, mina kaSomkhele ngithi: kanti awuboni ngani we ndodamfino ukuthi a tribal salutation differs from a clan name? Answer this question with reference to leya mibuzo yami ngoNkosi, Msimang, Gwala etc. Then you’ll see the fallacy of your blue collar interpretation of words. So much for blue collar workmen thinking inside the box, not seeing the wood from the trees! Yisono ngabo abantu benkosi.

Indaba kaMoyo ngaqeda ngayo kudala. The writing is on the wall on their origins zasebu Shona – their totems speak for themselves.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/07/07 08:04 PM

Bafowethu.

Ngiphange ngaphenduka. Ngiyakuthanda ngoba awutatazeli nje. Inveli yako Maseko awuyazi njalo UZAWUMANA ungazama ukuyixhamanda njenge yako Mkhwanazi. AWUSUYE MKHWANAZI FUTHI WENA uyababhixa laba bantu abangaBANDLULILIYO EZINYE IZIZWE.

Ngincindezele kokulotshwe ngu NZARAYAPENGA. "ISIBHOKILE" SIBILI LAPHA EKHAYA AWUBONI LOMTOLIKO WE SISHONA UYAWAZI:
____________________________________________________________________________________________
well, take the victory; it’s yours Mr Maseko. Mind you, Maseko is of Malawian origins.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Okwakuqala ngiyaziqhenya ngeSEKO langakithi elingasiMlindaziko.
Okwesibili angikayithathi i VICTORY ngoba basathule abanye.

Then, coming to Maseko, ISEKO is a NGUNI word derived from one of the captive tribes Ba-Tonga Yila to which I belong. When WE WERE STILL IN CENTRAL AFRIKA, THINA UMHLOBO WETHU UBUBIZWA "Thonga / Tonga/ Tsonga." Sabuthwa lathi njengezinye izizwe saba NGABENGUNI. Asifihli. Ubu Thonga bethu sabudalwa ngoNkulu-Nkulu wasikhethela bona asingeke sizisikele EbuZulwini sicine sisithi Sisakhuluma Olunye ulimi "which according to you is neither here nor there".

KIMI ITS HERE AND THERE, ENGXENYE LALIKHULUMA ISI SHONA. YINI NDABA UZONDA ABAKA MTHWAKAZI????? U Gogo u Bole wayethi ama Shona ayebathwalise nzima kwaze kwafika uMzilikazi. Yikho ubazonda abakaMthwakazi. Maybe uyi SHORT-SLEEVE.

YANA KUBO CWEPESHA BAKHO UBUZE IMVELI YAKO MASEKO, UNGAWUMANI. Ngena laku ma Website uthi Type "Ngwana Maseko" uzibalele both TRADITIONAL HISTORY and "SCHOLARLY HISTORY". In this case kuvumelana qho angazi ukuthi eyako eyokuthi "Malawian Origin" yiyiphi.

Thina singo Ngcamane, sithiwa Ngcamane ngenxa yokusila kubaLawu. What I tell you will be NARATED BY ALL MASEKO's be they in whatever part of Afrika. Ungcama siyalugida thina "TRADITIONAL" ngoba silesizatho sakhona. Siphinde sithiwe Khuboni. U Khuboni ubezalwa ngu Ka-Labantu, and Ka-Labantu is my middle name lokuzalwa. Komkhulu e Swazini ukhona njalo uKa-Labantu ozalwa endlini zangakithi. U Ka-Labantu ezalwa ngu Ndzaba (Ndaba), yena ezalwa ngu Ngwane Mkhulu Ka Ngcamane. UNgcamane imbali yangakithi ithi yilo iThonga elathunjwa ngu Malandela lisiba LiNguni, hatshi iZULU.

YIKHO OKADE UKUTSHO USITHI YOU WILL SEARCH ME UNTIL UZE UNGIVUMBULULE. I HAVE MENTIONED MY ORIGINS ON THIS WEBSITE BEFORE AND WITH PRIDE BECAUSE AKULALUTHO OLUBI NGOKUBA LI THONGA. NJALO AKULABUBI NGOKUBA LI MARAVI. SIKHULU ISIZWE SAKITHI ESISE MALAWI, AS MUCH AS OJELE, KHUMALO, HLONGO etc. THOSE ARE THE REAL PRODUCTS OF MFECANE. Read your history.

Ngincindezele:
___________________________________________________________________________________________
ebese uya esikoleni uthole ukuqeqesheka ukuze uthi adopt an academic approach to history.
___________________________________________________________________________________________

IN AS MUCH AS THAT SENTENCE IS DIRECTED AT ME, IT IS MORE MEANT FOR YOU THAN ME. Learning and passing is different from KNOWING.

Ungwana Maseko nguye oyenyuke lesizwe saMaswati esiza eBudlaNondo. Lamabutho akhe siyawazi nxa sigida siyawabiza amagama awo. UNgwana Maseko uhambe phambili kakhulu ku Mzilikazi. Uzibalele wedwa ukuthi ulele ngaphi uNgwana. Abantwabakhe oMagadlela yibo abaqhubeka lezinye izizukulwane zakhe baya e Zambiya, abanye baya e Maravi (MALAWI). Izindlu zeNkosi-yama-Khosi u Ngwana zitholakala lapha, S.A., Swaziland, Mthwakazi, Zambia and Malawi. Sibanzi isizwe lesi ngoba sasihamba.

UNGIDINGELE LAMI AMABHUKU ATHI WONA MASEKO ORIGINATES IN MALAWI. THINA SIZAZI SI ORIGINATOR FROM UMFULA U BuKONGO, SINGAMATHONGA. NJALO KASIFIHLI.

Ngibona phezulu lapha okubekwe khona izindlu zika ZULU. Ngilokhu ngiyidinga eyangakini. Ungincedise. Sitshonjalo isangoma. Makhosi.

AWUSAZI ISIZULU, AWUYAZI I HISTORY, UYAGCONA ISIZWE SAKO MKHWANAZI. Yet you are so Fluent in SHONA or was it one of your MAJORS?????

Thank you for your eloquence now I know that Nzarayapenga means Indla isibhokile. KAMBE INGABHOKA KULOKUDLA, Muntongela kudla "NKWARI YANGOSI, CHAMASE"

Elamani!!!!!

Li Zwangendaba.

Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/08/07 08:31 AM

Zwangendaba

Wee tshwala benyoni, your deterioration to toilet levels gives the true measure of your intellect. Your blue collar mentality & therefore ideas, dominated by ubuxoki bakho, put the level of your education into its proper perspective. Nonetheless angizu kukulahla, ngodla nawe ingevu yize uyisi wengu, isiduphunga sekhehla unjalo. IsiZulu sithi: umuntu akalahlwa.

I’ll reiterate: you may fool bonke olopholo base sigungwini ngama re-inventions & distorted versions of history wakho, usenga nezimithi, & get away with it. Kepha kimina Nkwali yenkosi, ufike kwangqingetshe. Ngoku tshela izindaba zakho, ngikudlalisel’ ama-dragon, ngikususe lenkani – aphel’ amang’ ekhehleni lomNyasa (uNgoni Maseko wase Malawi)! For once uye wavuma iqiniso ngobuNyasa bakho.

Indaba yami i-straight wena tshwalabenyoni. It’s unequivocal. From day one, I’ve always said ngiyiNkwali yenkosi yangale ngaphesheya koThukela. Eyakho indaba, cha iyindida wena ndodamfino. You’re a hotchpotch of confusion yama tribes and clans. You tell us that you’re part Kalanga, part Swati, part Nyasa, part Venda, part Lozwi, part Tsonga, part Tonga, part mZambezi, part - eish angazi. Wake wambona wena umuntu onjena emhlabeni? Ngiyayeshwama lendaba! Yini oyifihlayo? I say: i-confusion ngobuzwe bakho lena suggests ukuthi awazi unhloboni. Uma ungazi, I suggest you consult lezo zangoma zakho zasebuZambezi. Uma nje zingabhula iqiniso for once, zizoku hlebela ukuthi vele wena ungowase buShona. Psychologists suggest ukuthi umuntu one phobia ethile towards something, kusuke kuchaza ukuthi he’s fighting the affinity yakhe towards leyonto. That in one breath uthi ene abantu abamnyama bonke baphuma eCentral Africa, they are one & it’s no disgrace ukuhlobana nezinye izinhlanga zasebuZambezi etc, yet gwiqiqi awufuni kuzwa nix ngamaShona – uwazonda okokokugcina and totally divorce yourself from them. This is rather fishy. Kunuka santungwana la. Ukubhoka kwakho ngenzondo towards amaShona, kusho kona ngempela ukuthi uyilona 9 9 iShona.

IsiShona angisazi wena Mnyasa. Cha. If anything, ngiye ngabuza kubantu abasaziyo, and they gave me the grammatically correct meaning of lelo gama lendlala yansondo ebhokile. The interesting part is: you’re the very goon who started this Nzarayapenga nonsense. You saw the Shona name in some obscure article, ngoba vese isiShona usazi ngokunga nqikazi, wavele wali humusha lelo gama, walixhantelisa negama lami, wase uyangisukela ngingazi nano kwazi ngaleyo nto, wangipha lona. Ungiphe lelo gama ngoba isiShona usazi ungasi nqikazi, -wasincela kunyoko ebuKalanga. Wee sekulu/ru Mnyasa, ungakhohlwa phela ukuthi the only difference between isiShona nesiKalanga is by simply substituting an “R” kwisiShona ngo “L” wasebuKalanga. AmaShona la ngomzala bakho, nimdibi munye endlini yakwenu ebuKalanga.

Indlu kaNkwali angeke ize ivele uma kukhulunywa ngolibo lwamakhosi endlunkulu yakwaZulu. For your own information, ulibo lwendlu yakwaZulu simply means: the lineage of Zulu kings. This is the house of Mageba, izingonyama, iZilo zamabandla onke, amakhosi amakhosi asungulwe yiLembe, uShaka kaSenzangakhona. Unless uma ngabe kukhona into oyibhemayo, iqiniso wukuthi: uMkhwanazi can never appear in the lineage of the Zulu royal succession. Thina ubukhosi bethu bungaphesheya koThukela, eMpangeni (Ongoye/KwaDlangezwa) naseMtubatuba.

Hlukana nalento oyibhemayo Zwangendaba.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Bhudaza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/08/07 10:30 AM



Akusela lutho esilufundayo lapha ngoba you have resorted to and reduced the discussion to childish namecalling. banghead
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/08/07 03:31 PM

Bafowethu.

I will apologise if my language has hurt anyone, including Muntongelakudla hk hk hk NZARAYAPENGA a.k.a INDLALA IBHOKILE. Usudobhela futhi. Ayisimi engaliqalayo lelo bizo. Njalo elokuthi INDLALA IBHOKILE nguwe ongitshele ngalo. Beka phansi ugodo lolo sitshayane kahle. Elamani?????

I wish this discussion to be educative and let those who want to learn hear. UXOLO SIBALUKHULU, eNKUNDLENI, LAKUWE BHUDAZA. You mentioned a touching point.

Back to abako MASEKO.

1.The original Maseko was a TONGA. Some of our people pronounce it as Tsonga, others THONGA. Their branch of the THONGA was called AMA-YILA.

2.On their journey to the South of the continent, they met and were defeated by the NGUNI. At that time their King was Ngcamane kaMnyanda, kaMaseko, kaMswati, kaLISWATI uGQOZI, kaMbunda kaMthonga-Yila (Owuyena owadabula isizwe samaYila), yena ezalwa ngu MTHONGA, onguyena owadabula IZIZWE ZOBUTONGA. They, like the other tribes that were defeated, were absorbed into the Nguni nation. NOTE, not the ZULU nation.

3.JUST LIKE other tribes that know their history, the MASEKO have always maintained their IDENTITY. Loba sithethela thina, SIBIZA ABENDLU YOBU THONGA. We did not start knowing ourselves after ZULU. Akulandaba whether you are in S.A., Lesotho, Swaziland, Zambia, Malawi or Congo. Njalo siyalwazi ulimi esasilukhuluma, ISITHONGA, asehlukananga kakhulu lesi TONGA esikhulunywa lamhlanje e BINGA.

4. O Maseko bakhona lamhlanje abangama Zulu kodwa nxa sigida INGCAMA awubasweli. O Maseko bakhona lamhlanje abangaMaswazi njalo yibo abayikhokhelayo leyo NGCAMA ngoba ngokwendlu yeSiSwati. O Maseko bakhona abangaMandebele kodwa nxa kugidwa iNGCAMA awubasweli. O Maseko abangama NGOMANE, not NYASA, bakhona eMalawi, kodwa nxa kugidwa iNGCAMA awubasweli.

5. My point is this, ngesikhathi soMfecane, the Maseko clan was scattered and some fought their way up to Mthwakazi, others to Zambia, and yet others to Malawi and Tanganyika.

Ukuthi NGONI any historian of character and scruples uzakutshela ukuthi kwaqala ngoba eminye imihlobo isehluleka ukuthi NGUNI. Anyone othi wenza i History up to Degree level, uyabe ulamanga angathi kakwazi ukuthi NGONI is a varient of NGUNI.

U Ngwana Maseko (Owayethiwa ngu Tshaka UMASESENYANA) ngoba emdelela, engavumi ukuthi abitwe yizizwe zaMaSwati NKOSI-YA-MAKHOSI. Izizwe zamaSwati ezifana labo Msene, Fokoti (Fokozi), Nhlongwa, Khanyile, Nswali, Masumpa (Namhlanje babizwa Masopha sebakhele e LeSotho), zazilamakhosi kodwa zikhonza uNgwana Maseko njenge NKOSI-YA-MAKHOSI. Awubasweli njalo abako Masopha nxa sigida uNGCAMA thina abobuThonga.

EYINYE YALEZO NGOMA ESIZIHLABELAYO IYATSHO OKUCACILEYO IVUNYA YIZIZWE ZONKE ZISITHI, "Sikhonz' uNGWANA MASEKO, Heeeegg Yaaahhg eeeeh, I Swazi Lemvelo, Heeeehhg eyaaaagh eeehg". ENYE NJALO ITHI, "Inkosi zaMangwana zithethela ngedlozi lika Baba, nxa zithethela zikhuza INGOMA ka baba." INGOMA ZETHU NARATE OUR HISTORY.

U Ngwana ufe isizwe sakhe sesiko Mthwakazi. Ibutho leZIBULO lakhe IMBABATANE lasala emuva uMAGADLELA ETHATHA umbuso kayise esenyuka esiya e Bu-Nyasa. Nxa uyazi indawo okuthiwa Sigala lapho uMzilikazi afika abeka ibutho lika Mlagela Khumalo, yikho lapho kulele khona uNgwana. Ibutho le MBABATANE yilo elaKHAWULWA ngu NYAMATANA le ZWANGENDABA. Uthe esewuthethe umbuso uMzilikazi abanye abe Mbabatane bangena ebuthweni lamangubo IZIMNYAMA. Ngikhuluma izinto ezikhona lamhlanje. Abanye bangena eNYANDENI. Yikho lapho bekulo LUPHEMBE KHONA. Yikho njalo lapho uLuphembe alele khona.

Yibo ke abaka Magadlela ababitwa NGONI yimihlobo ayesilwa layo endleleni. LOKHU SIKUFUNDISWA NGEKHAYA NXA KULE NGCAMA. Nxa bekhona abako Maseko abavela e Malawi kabangiphikise nxa ngiqamba amanga.

Mntongela kudla, I will call you hence forth Nzarayapenga hk hk hk, to make this discussion interesting. Ungazondi, uduba ngokudobhela. Angiwazondi AmaShona I worked there for Twenty Years. I know them and their ways and indlela zabo yizo engizizondayo, I wont mince my words there. BUT WENA UKHANYA UYAWATHANDA. Ululimi lamathe labo.

MINA ANGESABI to mention my BLOOD RELATIVES. IT IS TRUE NGIYI MIXTURE OF DIFFERENT TRIBES. ANGINGEKE NGAKUVIKA LOKHO. UBABA UZALWA NGU ZULU, OZALWA NGU LUPHEMBE, OZALWA NGU
NOLIYANDZA OLIZIBULO LIKA NGWANA EMZALA ENGAKABI YINKOSI. BONKE LABA NGAMASWATI THEREFORE NGAMA THONGA. AKULA MEHLUKO ITHONGA LESWATI. ISWATI NGUMNTWANA WE THONGA. KUBONINA UBABA UZALWA NGU NEMANDI GUMEDE. UMAMA UZALWA NGU MLOMO, EZALWA NGU MBENGWANA, EZALWA NGU JENKWA EZALWA NGU NGWAKWI kaMNGUNI. KUNINA UMAMA UZALWA NGU BOLE KANGOMBI KANUNGWA KATHUPHANE. UGOGO KAMAMA EZALWA NGUMOYO BATALAHUNDA LENTOMBI YOKO MUKWENA.

THINA NGEKHAYA SILAMABIZO ESISWATI, LESI SUTHU LESI KA-LANGA. ABADALA UNGABABUZA BATHI KWENZELWA UKUTHI UMZILA WOSENDO UNGACITSHI. THAT IS WHAT YOU SCHOLARLY HISTORIANS DO NOT ASK. LITHI LINGEZWA IBIZO LESISUTHU EMUNTWINI SOKUTHIWA ULINIKWELENI? KAMBE UNGENYANYA ABANTU ABAKUZALAYO.

Lokhu ngikuloba ukwenzela ukuthi AUTHENTICATE into engiyitshoyo ngoba usapho lwalezi zizwe engizibeka lapha luzabona lungiphikise nxa ngiqamba amanga.

SENGINGATHI ANGILALO LELOGAZI NGENXA YOKUFUNA UKWAZAKALA NJENGO MUNTU OQAKATHEKILEYO?????

Akula sizwe esiyaziyo imbali yaso esingathi thina saphongu kufika kwa ZULU sacina SESIKHULUMA ISIZULU leso sizwe singakwazi ulimi esasilukhuluma. Siyabe sifihla. Lamabizo aleso sizwe APHONGU KUTHIWA AQALELE KWAZULU AWAKUDALA AWASAFUNAKALI UKUTHI AZAKALE????? If that is "Scholarly History, then it falls FAR TOO SHORT OF REALITY".

Kuyenzakala njalo eqinisweni ezinye izizwe zazithunjwa ngoba zisifa ngendlala (NO JOKES HERE). I Nkosi ibisisithi akweluse inkomo lokhu. Kuzakuya ngezikhathi kuthiwe lakho sekungaba ngama CITIZEN, and to ERASE THAT SLAVE PAST (of being abafana be nkomo), kuyala okuyisizwe lokhu ukuziveza ebantwini ukuthi bekuwu mhlobo bani. Besekuyaqala nje khonapho without a PAST.

Without degenerating abansundu be Amerika - KUFANA LAMA SLAVES AYE THIWA ASENGO "TOBBY" NGOBA BENGAZAKALI IMVELAPHI YABO. KODWA O "KUNTA-KINTE" BABESALA IMIGOGODLA IZE ISWABE NGOKUTSHAYWA BEBIZA WONALAWO MAGAMA AKIBO LOBA ESENYANYWA NGEZINYE IZIZWE.

There is a West Afrikan proverb that goes, "NO MATTER HOW ROTTEN YOUR TEETH MAY BE, THEY ARE STILL THE NEAREST COMFORT TO YOUR TONGUE." Ungakukhohlwa lokhu Muntu aka Nzara.

MALAWI was one of the DESTINATIONS of SOME OF THE MASEKO PEOPLE, and not all of them, AND ALSO IT IS NOT THE ORIGIN OF THE MASEKO. O MASEKO NGAMA SWATI ANGABUZWAYO, OFUNAYO MORE INFORMATION GO TO THE SWAZI PEOPLE OF THE DLAMINI CLAN, TSHONGWE, MSIBI, MNISI, NXABA, AND ASK THEM ABOUT NGWANA MASEKO OR THE HOUSE OF LUPHEMBE.

Li Zwangendaba.


Posted by: Ndukuzibomvu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/08/07 06:16 PM

Izigaba zobuNguni

-----------------------------
References:
a) Olden Times in Zululand and Natal, Rev. A.T. Bryant
b) Uphoko (Umqulu 1), R.S. Khumalo
-----------------------------

1. AmaNtungwa ("pure"/original Ngunis)

Biyela
Buthelezi
Dladla
Dludla
Gumede
Khoza
Khumalo
Khuzwayo
Khwela
Lushozi
Mabaso
Mabizela
Majola
Makhanya
Makhoba
Manzini
Maqungebe
Ngobese
Mathenjwa
Mbatha
Mbeje
Mdladla
Mjadu
Mlaba (Ximba)
Mlambo
Mngomezulu
Mnguni
Mnisi
Mpungoshe
Msomi
Mthembu
Myeni
Ncwane
Ndaba
Ndlovu
Ngwenya
Nsinde
Ntshangase
Ntuli
Nyanda
Nyawo
Nzuza
Qwabe
Shandu
Shezi/AmaNcube
Sibiya
Sikhakhane
Xulu
Zulu
Zungu

2. AbaMbo

Cebekhulu
Dlamini
Hadebe
Hudla
Langa
Linda
Mabuza
Magwaza
Mavuso
Mhlongo
Mkhatshwa
Mkhize
Mlangeni
Mthimkhulu
Mzizi
Ndwandwe
Ngwane
Nkosi
Ntsele
Nxumalo
Shabalala
Zikhali
Zwane/Ngweni
Zwide

3. AmaThonga

Gumede kaManukuza
Jobe kaSiqakatha
Mashabana
Ngwana
Ngubane
Nxumayo kaPhumphele
Tembe

4. AmaLala/AmaNhlenga (a branch of amaThonga)

Cele
Chamane
Dingila
Dube
Goba/Maqamane
Gwala
Hlabisa
Jali
Lamula
Luthuli/Mathuli
Mangangeni
Maphumulo/Mseleku/Shinga
Mbambo
Mbuyazi/Mbonambi
Mkhwanazi (abakwaMpukunyoni)
Mnqobokazi
Mthethwa
Mthiyane
Myaka
Mzimela
Ndlanzi
Ngcobo
Ngcolosi/Bhengu
Ngiba
Ngongoma
Ngonyama
Nyuswa
Vilana
Wosiyane
Xaba
Zama/Nzama

5. AmaDebe (another branch of amaThonga)

Dunge
Nyamvu
Nqolo
Nqondo
Njilo
Mdluli
Yobo
Nkabane
Ntshele
Ntambo
e.t.c.


Of Ancient Languages (pre-1819)

Lala.................................................. Zulu

u-fati, (plur. aba-fati) ....................... um-fazi, aba-fazi
u-nwana, aba-nwana ....................... um-ntwana, aba-ntwana
umu-nu, aba-nu ........................... umu-ntu, aba-ntu
umu-ti, imi-ti ............................ umu-zi, imi-zi
unomo, imi-lomo ........................... um-lomo, imi-lomo
u-nede, imi-lede ..........................um-lenze, imi-lenze
ili-ve ..................................... ili-zwe
ili-tulu ............................. ili-zulu
ama-di ............................... ama-nzi
ama-timba .............................. ama-bele (sorghum)
yilu-lwimi ............................ ulu-limi
yilu-pondzo ............................. ulu-phondo (horn)
i-mbwa, iti-mbwa ............................... i-nja, izi-nja
i-yuku ...................................... i-nkukhu
i-mupu ...................................... i-mpuphu
i-yomo ....................................... i-nkomo
i-yabi ........................................ i-nkabi
i-yudi ................................... i-nkunzi
i-yomwadi .................................. i-nkomazi
i-yomwane ................................... i-nkonyana
i-nombi .................................. i-ntombi
i-ndoda ....................................... i-ndoda
i-siva ...................................... i-nsizwa
i-hladi .................................. i-nhlanzi
isa-ngra ........................................ i-sandla
ubw-ani .......................................... u-tshani
ubw-alwa ............................................ u-tshwala
ubu-hlalu ......................................... ubu-hlalu
ndzi-nyamba .......................................... ngi-hamba
ndzi-reti ................................ ngi-hlezi
ndzi-raba ................................ ngi-hlaba
ndzi-tsi ................................ ngi-thi
ketulu ................................ phezulu

Ngiyabonga.
Posted by: kanti9Kunjalo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/08/07 08:42 PM

Nduku zibomvu.

Sengizangena ngewala ngimutsha la enkundleni.

Kusho ukuthi lelijaha lakwa Ngcamane liyayazi into eliyikhulumayo. Usincedile wayilamula ngenduku ezigcwele igazi.

Ubaba uShamase yisihlobo lo Ngcamane, bezwana inkaba. Uduba aduke indaba athuke abantu la esigungwini. Xola Nkwali ye Nkosi. Ukufunda akupheli.

O Gumede kanti lebuThonga bakhona? Aaghh zihlobo, ukungazi kufana lokufa.

Qhuba umsebenzi wakho Ngcamane, awumele uze uzibulale by justifying yourself. Izizwe zihlangene, wena ulenhlanhla okwakwenu uyakwazi.

Danki Bro Nduku. Danki sigungu seNkundla.

Yimi oka Mblazi.
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/08/07 08:53 PM

Bafowethu.

Sakubona Kanti 9. Indaba ungasathanga kanti 10? hk hk hk. Welcome baba kumbe ngu dade.

Ndukuzibomvu. Uyilwile baba. Ngiyabonga zihlobo zami. Besengisesaba ngithi sengizathethela amdlozi ebu NYASA ngingakwazi lokuthi akhuzwa njani. Nanku labo oNgomane abakhonale eMALAWI bathethela nge NGOMA KA BABA. Abakwazi ukuthethela isiNyasa.

Nzarayapenga, hk hk hk, kanti UYISININI SAMI??? MFANA, awulibonanga mhla sihlangana. Ngizakutshaya ubaleke uze uyefika eMALAWI. hk hk hk.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Spade omnyama

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/09/07 11:50 AM

Zwangendaba and Muntongenakudla,

Bafowethu-when two elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers!!!!

Ngithe ngilibonge majaha, liyayibamba inkulumo.Excellent research on both sides. Zindala zombili!!!!

I must admit that these days l am always glued to the screen just to see ukuthi kanti induku izawela ngaphi. Uxakuxaku lona ke?

Mpaka langatshona!!!
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/16/07 10:19 AM

Bandl’ eliphakathi

Ngini bingelele bandla lakwethu.

Ngizwe ibika, ngasabela ngokuphonsa itshe esivivaneni. Angisho ngithi, kuke kwaba nesicelo soSibambimidlelo, emuva le ko 2004/5. Ebethe ene, mangi mtholele izithakazelo zakubo. Hhayi ke, nokho isikhathi sibe side, kepha iNkwali yenkosi, uShamase wangempela, uMtubatuba kaSomkhele, uVeyane, uMpangazitha wangale ngaphesheya koThukela wenze ibuya langempela. Ehhene, ngize nazo mina wangenhla. Ngithi: cobela ufalaza phela mbhemu, nakhu sengibiza ezakini:

Ezakwa Nkala

Nkala!
Mlotshwa!
Maphepha!
Mphanjane!
Sitsh’ esihle
Sokudlel’ amasi nenyama
Abakwanyanga yethwese
Abathwayis’ umuntu ngojojo
Mawela wela
Awel’ umful’ ugcwele
Awuwel’ awuphindelela
Abanyawo zimansense


Phansi phezulu, iyaphuz’ inkukhu. Ngethemba wenelisekile.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Sibambamahawu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/16/07 07:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Muntongenakudla
Bandl’ eliphakathi

Ngini bingelele bandla lakwethu.

Ngizwe ibika, ngasabela ngokuphonsa itshe esivivaneni. Angisho ngithi, kuke kwaba nesicelo soSibambimidlelo, emuva le ko 2004/5. Ebethe ene, mangi mtholele izithakazelo zakubo. Hhayi ke, nokho isikhathi sibe side, kepha iNkwali yenkosi, uShamase wangempela, uMtubatuba kaSomkhele, uVeyane, uMpangazitha wangale ngaphesheya koThukela wenze ibuya langempela. Ehhene, ngize nazo mina wangenhla. Ngithi: cobela ufalaza phela mbhemu, nakhu sengibiza ezakini:

Ezakwa Nkala

Nkala!
Mlotshwa!
Maphepha!
Mphanjane!
Sitsh’ esihle
Sokudlel’ amasi nenyama
Abakwanyanga yethwese
Abathwayis’ umuntu ngojojo
Mawela wela
Awel’ umful’ ugcwele
Awuwel’ awuphindelela
Abanyawo zimansense


Phansi phezulu, iyaphuz’ inkukhu. Ngethemba wenelisekile.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi


Mqhwashisi

Shamase wangempela, ngiyabonga kakhulu mfowethu. Luhle ucwaningo lwakho baba, bengithi mhlawumbe wakhohlwa noma wehluleka ukungitholela izithakazelo zakithi, hhayi ke kuhle lokhu, uyindoda yamadoda.

Manje sekuyacaca kimina ukuthi kungani sibizwa uMwelase njalo uMazibuko.
Ngike ngathi ngixoxa nenye insizwa ngiytshena ukuthi thina singabakwa Mlotshwa yala yashaya phansi.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/23/07 09:02 AM

Bandl’ eliphakathi

Ngini bingelele.

Ngithanda ukuqondisa izigwegwe zoNdukuzibomvu. Kungathi umfowethu uye wasenga nezi mithi. Mina ngizokhuluma ngento engiyaziyo, based on my continuous travels KwaZulu. Angizuku khuluma ngenzwabethi.

Truth is, abeNguni bayimikhakha elandelayo:
1.AbaseMbo
2.AbaseButhonga
3.AmaLala noma AmaHlenga Nguni
4.AmaDebe Nguni
5.AmaNtungwa Nguni (NB: Ndlovu is not part of this group. Ndlovu is not pure/original Nguni. Ndlovu is of Sotho origins: Tlou, Motloung. His totem, "Boya benyathi", was derived from his incessant running from place to place, under attack from other clans whilst he was seeking a space to settle KwelikaMthaniya)

It must be clear kubani nobani ukuthi these 5 branches of amaNguni are stand alone. In other words, abasebuThonga are not a mother body of the other 2 or 3 Nguni stripes.

AmaLala/Hlenga Nguni are not a branch of AmaThonga Nguni. AmaThonga are a separate, independent branch from amaLala/Hlenga Nguni.

Indlu yanga kithi kwaMkhwanazi ngeyamaLala/Hlenga Nguni. Asisi yona ingxenye yamaThonga thina.

AmaThonga Nguni
AmaThonga akhele KwaMhlabuyalingana namaphethelo. Izibongo zamaThonga oNxumalo, Gumede, Tembe noNgubane zinobukhosi bazo khona kwaMhlabuyalingana namaphethelo. Leyo ndawo yoMhlabuyalingana idume ngezangoma ezine milingo emibi kabi. Leyo ndawo ngiya yazi ngoba siye safika kuyona nomfowethu engimkhonze kakhulu, uShuku, uMkheshane kaVumezitha! Yinsizwa yamabutho ke leyo.

AmaLala/Hlenga Nguni
Ngizophawula kabanzi ngamaLala/Hlenga Nguni ngoba thina bakwaNdonga siphuma kulolo gatsha lwamaNguni. I will repeat: amaLala/Hlenga Nguni are not a branch of AmaThonga. Never. AmaLala/Hlenga Nguni akhele e-North Coast, agudle ulwandle, kwesa KwaMthethwa (Mtubatuba neMpangeni)(175km from Durban).

I’ll take you through the journey that I travel everytime from Durban to esikaMthethwa. Uyabona: uma uhamba ngo N2, facing North, uphuma eThekwini udlula 2 tollgates, udlule oTongaat bese uba seMandeni, another tollgate later, uKwaDukuza (Stanger, lapho kulele khona iLembe), yet another tollgate later, uwela umfula uThukela (Tugela river), uthi offramp left bese ungena Ongoye (University of Zululand). Yonke leyo ndawo kuseMpangeni. On the right hand side yeN2, kuseSikhawini. Uma uthi proceed further on ngo N2, some 2 km from eMpangeni uthi offramp right, uya eRichards Bay, kuthi ka left kube yi Mpangeni town. However, uma uthi proceed straight ngo N2 futher northwards, uzothi after 10km, uthi offramp left. Lapho sekuse Mtubatuba. On the right ye N2, kukwaMbonambi.

Izibongo zamaLala yilezi: Mthethwa, Mkhwanazi, Dube, Mthiyane, Mzimela. Zonke lezi zibongo zinobukhosi bazo KwesikaMthethwa. Please note that: ubukhosi besibongo buba lapho leso sibongo sakhele khona ngokwendabuko.

Amakhosi akwaNkwali mabili, u-John kaMuntongenakudla eMpangeni, kunye noMinias kaMtubatuba, eMtubatuba. Inkosi yakwaDube ikhona eSikhawini. EyakwaMthethwa (uzalo lukaDingiswayo) ikhona KwaMbonambi. EyakwaSokhulu (Mthiyane) ikhona Ongoye, besekuba noMpiyezintombi Mzimela (the chairman of The House of Traditional leaders). Yena ke uyinkosi yakwaMzimela, eMpangeni.

The writing is therefore on the wall. AmaLala are not amaThonga. UMkhwanazi, inkwali yenkosi, uShamase, uNdonga, uVeyane, uMpangazitha, uSomkhele akayena wase buThonga.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Ndukuzibomvu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/23/07 05:51 PM

It's far more impressive when others discover your good qualities without your help. (J.S. Martin)

Narcissism: excessive or erotic interest in oneself, one's physical features, etc. (Greek mythology: Narkissos - the name of a youth who fell in love with his reflection in a pool)

It seems that every absurdity has a champion to defend it. My understanding is that the person who started this thread is interested in origins [i.e. we are talking about prehistoric timescales of the order of millennia] of izibongo. In other words, contemporary profiles of various izibongo are not the primary concern. The question " Ingabe abantu ababizwa AmaLala bavelaphi ngendabuko?" is much deeper and broader than it might sound to the average human ear, and certainly can not be answered at the flick of a switch. One has to be extremely careful. As H.G. Wells aptly put it, human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe.

That said, I would like to get some indication that my understanding of the term "origins" as it relates to the question posed in this thread is indeed an understanding shared by my colleagues here. Otherwise, this "discussion" is simply a pathetic display of the worst case of pathological narcissism, capable of driving any self-respecting/decent/cultured human being (be they brown, white, black, pink, yellow, red, spotted, and all the other permutations and combinations therein) into compulsive fits of embarrassment.

My references again, for those who might have missed (mischievously or otherwise) them:

1. Olden Times in Zululand and Natal, by A.T. Bryant
2. Uphoko (Umqulu 1), by R.S. Khumalo

"More light!" (Goethe, last words)

Ngiyabonga.

Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/24/07 06:59 AM

Ndukuzibomvu

You must be smoking the wrong weed.

If indeed unalo Uphoko Vol 1 lukaMashobane, go read Page 5 (amaThonga nama Lala/Hlenga). Then read Page 103 about indabuko yabakwaNdlovu.

Musa ukusenga nezi mithi we ndodamfino!

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Ndukuzibomvu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/24/07 04:31 PM

On pages 12-13 of his booklet, R.S. Khumalo tabulates a compendium of izibongo ezitholakala KwaZulu under their respective Nguni categories. If you look closely in column 4 (line 11 from the top) on page 13, you'll see Ndlovu listed under AmaNtungwa (pure/original Ngunis).

Excerpt from Pages 103-104. (R.S. Khumalo, Uphoko: Umqulu 1)

Abantu bakwaNdlovu kuthiwa bangabeSuthu ngoba kukhona oNdlovu okuthiwa ngoMotloung noma okuthiwa ngoTlou. Kodwa iqiniso lithi abantu bakwaNdlovu badabuka endaweni yaseNkandla, bayingxenye yesizwe saMachunu. Abantu esikhuluma ngabo lapha ngabantu bakaMpongo kaZingelwayo kaLamula kaGatsheni. Laba bantu bakwaNdlovu bakhelene nabantu bakaMavovo wakwaMkhize phezu komfula iNsuze ngaphansi kwaseQhudeni eNkandla. Okwathi ngesikhathi sokubusa kukaMacingwane eMachunwini, kwaba khona ukungezwani phakathi kukaMpongo nenkosi yaseMachunwini, bethi uMpongo uyathakatha ngoba wayefuye izinyoni ezimbili ezithi kazifane nokhozi. Babaleka abantu bakwaNdlovu bayokhonza kuZihlandlo wakwaMkhize, bebalekela ulaka lukaMacingwane.

Note: One of the works used extensively by Khumalo in compiling his booklet is that of Dr. A.T. Bryant ( Olden Times in Zululand and Natal, Parts 1 and 2). Please do get copies of these volumes, I think they are pretty indispensable in any study of early South-Eastern Nguni political and social organisation; the what, why, and wherefore of the whole system of clans. It is important to keep in mind that, during his time, Dr. A.T. Bryant lived and travelled extensively among the Nguni clans of South-Eastern Africa. There's a fitting tribute to the man (nabanye abelungu) in C.T. Msimang's book Kusadliwa Ngoludala, check out Isandulelo.

Excerpts from pages 4-5. (R.S. Khumalo, Uphoko: Umqulu 1)

Izigaba zobuNguni:

Isigaba sokuqala: AbaNguni baseMbo (EMbo Nguni)

Isigaba sesibili: AbaNguni baseBuThonga (AmaThonga Nguni)

Lesi sigaba kasisikhulu kakhulu, ngoba ukuvela kwaso sengathi singumxhantela walesi sigaba esingenhla. Kodwa ngenxa yokuthi laba bantu behlukana bathi ukuqhelelana ngezifunda zabo, ngokwakhelana nezinye izizwe ulimi lwabo lwaya ngokuya lushintsha kwadaleka olunye uhlobo oseluncikile kusiMbo Nguni, kodwa kuthande ukungena nesiShangane lapho.

Laba bantu sibathola ngale kwezintaba zoMbo, endaweni yakwaMhlabuyalingana, kuthiwa yindawo yaseButhonga. Izibongo esizithola lapha ngabakwaNgwane bakaZikhali (KwaMbila), AbakwaNxumalo kaPhumphele (KaMabaso), kwaJobe, kwaGumede kaSiqakatha, kwaGumede wakwaMduku, oTembe, oNgubane kanye nezinye izibongo eziyimixhantela.

Isigaba sesithathu: AMalala noma AmaNhlenga Nguni

Lesi sigaba naso futhi sihlobene kakhulu nalesi sigaba esingenhla (i.e. AbaNguni baseBuThonga). Lokhu sikushiso ukuthi imvamisa yezibongo ezitholakala kulesi sigaba zidabuka ndawonye nalezi zibongo zaseButhonga, futhi kucishe kube khona nokuhlobana. Laba bantu sibathola kakhulu ezindaweni ezigudle ulwandle lwaseNdiya (Indian Ocean), kwehle njalo kuze kuyovimba iziNkwazi zoThukela.

Bonke abantu abangabokudabuka kule ndawo uyabezwa ukukhuluma kwabo ukuthi ngaMalala. NoShaka ngenxa yokukhulela kulesi sifunda wazethuka esekhuluma ulimi lwakhona. Lokhu kusho khona ukuthi uma ungowokuzalwa endaweni noma ukhulele kuleyo ndawo nolimi lwakho lugcina sekungolwaleyo ndawo.

Uma ekhuluma aMalala wona kateketi kodwa ayaluthambisa kakhulu ulimi. Ngakho esikhundleni sokuteketa bona bayathefula noma sithi ngesingabo bona bathi bayathefuya. Phela sibabona uma sibezwa ngakho ukuthefuya ukuthi impela yiLala leli. Bona u-L bathi Y okungukuthi uma uzothi lala bathi bona yaya, laphaya - yaphaya. Lobu tshwala - yobu tshwaya. Izizwe noma izibongo ezitholakala laphaya ezakwaMthethwa, Mkhwanazi, Dube, Mbuyazi, Mthiyane (Sokhulu) kanye nezinye izibongo ezakhelene nalezi, oMzimela.

Isigaba sesine: AmaDebe Nguni

Isigaba sesihlanu: AmaNtungwa Nguni

Note: It would be helpful to read other sources as well, especially Dr. A.T. Bryant's two volumes, to supplement Khumalo's material:

Of Ancient Languages (pre-1819)

IsiLala.............................................IsiZulu

u-fati, (plur. aba-fati) ....................... um-fazi, aba-fazi
u-nwana, aba-nwana ....................... um-ntwana, aba-ntwana
umu-nu, aba-nu ........................... umu-ntu, aba-ntu
umu-ti, imi-ti ............................ umu-zi, imi-zi
unomo, imi-lomo ........................... um-lomo, imi-lomo
u-nede, imi-lede ..........................um-lenze, imi-lenze
ili-ve ..................................... ili-zwe
ili-tulu ............................. ili-zulu
ama-di ............................... ama-nzi
ama-timba .............................. ama-bele (sorghum)
yilu-lwimi ............................ ulu-limi
yilu-pondzo ............................. ulu-phondo (horn)
i-mbwa, iti-mbwa ............................... i-nja, izi-nja
i-yuku ...................................... i-nkukhu
i-mupu ...................................... i-mpuphu
i-yomo ....................................... i-nkomo
i-yabi ........................................ i-nkabi
i-yudi ................................... i-nkunzi
i-yomwadi .................................. i-nkomazi
i-yomwane ................................... i-nkonyana
i-nombi .................................. i-ntombi
i-ndoda ....................................... i-ndoda
i-siva ...................................... i-nsizwa
i-hladi .................................. i-nhlanzi
isa-ngra ........................................ i-sandla
ubw-ani .......................................... u-tshani
ubw-alwa ............................................ u-tshwala
ubu-hlalu ......................................... ubu-hlalu
ndzi-nyamba .......................................... ngi-hamba
ndzi-reti ................................ ngi-hlezi
ndzi-raba ................................ ngi-hlaba
ndzi-tsi ................................ ngi-thi
ketulu ................................ phezulu
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/26/07 05:18 AM

Bafowethu.

Muntongelakudla, aka Nzarayapenga, hk hk hk, ungazondi.

U Nduku uthi yena "The topic is about the ORIGINS yezibongo".

Umlando weMbali yesintu usuka emuva khatshana kulaMAZULU. Amazulu are just a very new nation compared to IZIZWE ADABUKA KUZONA. Befor MALANDELA existed, isizwe sakwabo besithiwa Ba-NYASA. Lingizwisise, NOT NYANJA. U ZULU lo QWABE abaphumi ethunjini lika Malandela okomdabu. Izindlu zangakibo ngezobu Lozi. Zitshonjalo izangoma. MALANDELA was their DESTINED FATHER, NOT THEIR ORIGIN.

YIKHO uthola kulabo GUMEDE emihlobeni eminengi, eg Ogumede bakhona ebuLozi, bakhona ebuThonga, Bakhona Kwaba-Mangwe, babekhona kwaZulu. Angitsho bebesithi bangehlukana bayekwakha kwezinye indawo. Njalo kubuye kwezinye izizwe babe yizichaka.

AbeSuthu yisizwe esitsha lesi. Sitsha kakhulu ukwedlula amaZulu.

ENYE NJALO INDABA ENGIBONA ANGANI IYAKUPHICA YIKUTHI AWUVUMI UKUTHI KWESINYE ISIKHATHI (not always)IZIBONGO BEZISIBA DUPLICATED, USITHOLE SIKHONA ENDIMINI EZEHLUKENEYO SIBIZWA OKWEHLUKENEYO KODWA SISITSHO INTO YINYE.

Yikho obekusenza umuntu wezizweni angafika kwesinye isizwe bangambuza isibongo angathi TLOU, kuthiwe hayi lapha sibabiza Ndlovu (Ndhlovu). Either by ignorance or choice, ngemva kweminyaka sebelibele abanye, uzezwa sekuthiwa abantu bako Ndlovu ngabako TLOU. Angitsho beza lo TLOU mhla efika lapha kwelakithi. SEBELIBALA UKUTHI BEBEVELE BEKHONA O NDHLOVU laba o Ndhlovu baka TLOU bengakafiki. Ngenxa yokuthi uTLOU usuke wantshintsha isibongo wathiwa NDHLOVU does not mean ALL THE NDHLOVU came from TLOU.

ANOTHER POINT OF NOTE: whether we use references from the UNIVERSITY or COLLEGES, let us ALL REMEMBER THAT THOSE REFERENCES USED ORAL NARATION FROM THE CUSTODIANS OF OUR HISTORY (Izangoma)AT WHAT EVER STAGE THEY DID. They did not just DREAM those FACTS bavuka bezibhala. They only CREDITED themselves by adding their "SCHOLARLY REFERENCES eg DR. SO-AND-SO" to their "work". A lot of History books I have read even without a Degree on my shoulder, always give ACKNOWLEDGEMENT to the source of their work. And when it comes to encient History, that ACKNOWLEDGEMENT goes to TRADITIONAL ORAL NARATION. It does not matter whether that book is writing about Europe or Afrika.

I MUST HASTEN TO CORRECT A MISNOMER: according to our elders and Izangoma, ISANGOMA is not a HERBALIST. NGOMA means repetative naration. It also means a DIN of a DRUM since when izangoma narate our history or teach us of our religion, there is always someone who continuosly DINS the drum after every pause of the NARATOR. This has led to NGOMA meaning the DRUM itself ngesintu samandulo. UBU-NGOMA means the ability to retain information and narate it back over and over again as accurately as you have been taught. ISA-NGOMA is one who is TRAINED and ORDAINED and TASKED with keeping, narating the Religion, Traditions, History and Culture of our people.

A herbalist is INYANGA. iBAKHONA Inyanga ELOBUNGOMA.

OUR HISTORY IS VERY RICH AND ANCIENT. let us not strive to distort it.

Li Zwangendaba.

Posted by: kanti9Kunjalo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/26/07 06:48 PM

Ekuhle

Bafowethu liyasifundisa isizwe sika Mthwakazi.

Mina nje engingakucela kini lonke yikuthoba ulimi, njalo lingazikhukhumezi ngoba akekho ongcono kulomunye. Sehlukene kuphela akekho olobungcono.

Okwamanje ngise Mpangeni kodwa ngisebenza eJoza. Kithi kuse Tsholotsho kwa Mthwakazi. Okunengi engikuzwa lapha ngiyangikuzwe kukhulunywa ngekhaya. Sengiyathokoza ukuthi akhona amajaha angesabiyo njengabo NDUKU lo Zwangs ukuphikelela ngokuphakamisa okwakwethu.

Angilibongi majaha ngiyanikhuthaza ukuthi lingayekethisi ngoba langekhaya ikhona imbali yesintu elokhu isemagudwini. Bazaze bafe abadala sisale silesikhala emlandweni wesizwe sakithi.

Kuwo wonke oka Mthwakazi kandlela zimhlophe, sithi phumani ezindlini, nanka amahemehemu zihlobo. Yisikhathi sokuveza okwethu singela mahloni. Asizigqajeni ngomlando wethu hatshi ngokwezinye izizwe.

Yimi okaMblazi.
Posted by: Z61m

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/29/07 09:29 PM



http://www.moyo.co.za/


Posted by: Muthwa Ncube

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/30/07 09:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Ndukuzibomvu


Uphoko (Umqulu 1), by R.S. Khumalo



It is reported that uRegi Khumalo will lead a delegation that will attend umkhosi wokukhumbula iNkosi uMzilikazi eNtumbane around 8-9 September 2007.

Posted by: Madlenya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/31/07 07:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Muthwa Ncube
Originally Posted By: Ndukuzibomvu


Uphoko (Umqulu 1), by R.S. Khumalo



It is reported that uRegi Khumalo will lead a delegation that will attend umkhosi wokukhumbula iNkosi uMzilikazi eNtumbane around 8-9 September 2007.


Kungenzakala na ukuthi sibe lawe lapha emsakazweni wesizwe ISHAYA FM, asethulele umlando/imbali ngenkosi uMzilikazi? Lathi abalaleli sibe lethuba lokubuza lapho esithanda ukubuza khona. Ngicabanga ukuthi leli yithuba elihle kakhulu okumele silisebenzise.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/31/07 12:27 PM

Madlenya

Izinhlelo zikaMashobane (Sipho Regie Khumalo) zikhona oKhozini FM library. There's CDs & cassetes for sale. Kukhona izinhlelo ezichaza ngomlando wamakhosi aKwaZulu, as told by uMashobane during his days OKhozini. You just need to contact u-Eric Mkhwanazi at Radio Program Sales, kwaSABC Radio Centre, Auckland Park, Jozi.

If you wanna get in touch no Eric, ngokutholela inombolo yakhe. Wena isho, mina ngenze.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi

Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 09/26/07 03:06 AM

Bafowethu.

O Nkosi kumbe MaNkosi nxa engumame sidabuka ngaphi leso sibongo?

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 09/26/07 07:13 AM

Zwangendaba

AbakwaNkosi

AbakwaNkosi bayi mikhakha emibili engahlobene neze. Kuno Nkosi (Ndlangamandla) no Nkosi (Dlamini). Abahlobene neze – izithakazelo zabo ziyaku veza lokhu. Azifani nhlobo.

Nkosi (Ndlangamandla)
Laba badabuka Kwelika Mthaniya (KwaZulu). Bangumxhantela wendlu kaMbulazi. Kuzo khumbuleka ukuthi uMbulazi lona uzala uMntungwa, owuyena ozala amadodana, uKhumalo noMabaso (abasunguli balezo zibongo zombili – ie Khumalo no Mabaso).

AbakwaNkosi beza kamuva koKhumalo noMabaso. UNkosi lona uzalwa wuSiwela, oyisi zukulwane sendlu kaKhumalo. Yingakho nje abantu bakwaMabaso, Khumalo kunye noNkosi(Ndlangamandla) benezi thakazelo ezifanayo, zodumo ezithi:
Mntungwa kaMbulazi!

NgoMntungwa kaMbulazi ngoba bobathathu (uKhumalo, uMabaso noNkosi) bewu zalo luka Mbulazi nendodana yakhe uMntungwa.


Nkosi (Dlamini)
Lolu wuzalo lwakwaNgwane, abesidwab’ esiluthuli, abesicoco sangenhlana, abaKusa nelanga, oDlamini.

Lezi yizihlobo zoMavuso noKunene – amaSwazi emvelo. Uma ubuka, kwazona izithakazelo zabo, zigxile kakhulu olimini lwesiSwati. Isibonelo:
Weta nomlakati
Bemlakati beta KwaNgwane!


Yikona okuncane engikucobela kona.

Phansi phezulu, iyaphuz’ inkukhu.

Engethemba wenelisekile.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: DUMAKUDE

Re: Origins yezibongo - 09/28/07 01:28 AM

Yebo fethu ukhumbule ukuthi naso isizwe sakwa zulu sakhiwe yimi hlobo iminingi njengaso isizwe samandebele yikho akubalulekanga ukuthi abantu bakwandlovu abona asimanguni kanti amanguni ngoba? ngibuye kundaba yabo Mabhena, nabo khumalo kanye nabo Mahlangu njalo njalo nabo njengabo Ndlovu ngama nguni ngaphadle uma ungitshela ukuthi inguni ngobani ngikhuluma nje amaxhosa ngama Nguni ngokwazi kwami nomlandu utsho njalo angazi ukuthi wena wazi uphi? OMahlangu labo obabalayo zisalele zamandebele asuka nawo kwazulu bonke laba bantu babe khuluma isnguni kanye nathi namhla esesikhuluma isindebele seseyisi nguni lesosindebele ngingazi wena wazi siphi isnguni? nabo Zulu labaya obatholakala namhla kweleZambia ngamanguni ngephela nomnje ulimi selwalhleka nje!
Posted by: Madlenya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 09/28/07 04:23 PM

Uxole mfowethu ngokuthatha isikhathi eside kangaka ukucela inombolo zika Eric Mkhwanazi. Ngicela ungifunele zona, ungithumele zona ngasese. Ngiyabonga ndoda yamadoda.
Posted by: Msupatsila

Re: Origins yezibongo - 01/08/08 02:54 PM

This was an informative topic lets continue adding value good people.

Posted by: Skhotha

Re: Origins yezibongo - 01/21/08 10:39 PM

Sanibonani,

Izibongo nezithakazelo are our pedigree. Kuhle futhi kufanele siziqenye ngazo, futhi sizazi!I have a major concern in terms of who the final authority on them is.eKhaya, I grew up knowing singabakwaNdlela, but not uNdlela kaSompisi but uNdlela onguZikode.(hawu?!?) Where would I get the most likely to be correct information?

Skhotha somlalane kwaNkomokayixoshwa
Posted by: Msupatsila

Re: Origins yezibongo - 01/23/08 07:50 AM

Muntongenakudla ngikwethulela isigqoko mntaka baba. Uyiphethe inkundla njalo ulwazi lwakho siyaluswela mpela. Kuyajabulisa ukuzwa amadoda/ lamadodakazi ebeka sobala lasiphuma khona. Mnewethu ngabeka isicelo kuMthwakazi lapha enkundleni, mina ngifisa ukuzwa ezakoGodlwayo njalo lokuthi luGodlwayo yena uyinto mhlobo muni, ngangizwe ngoGodlwayo oseNatal, uhambelana kanjani loGodlwayo wakithi koMahlabayithwale?

Ungangibekela zona izitemo zakoGodlwayo ngingajabula mnewethu.

Mana ngihle ngibonge masinyazane nje.

Ngiyabonga, uyasikhulisa isizwe ngolwazi olalo
Posted by: Thami

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/18/08 12:18 PM

ukhona yini umuntu owazi i-Origin yesi bongo esithi Langa, nezithakazelo zakhona
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/18/08 02:37 PM

Thami

Abakwa Langa wuzalo lwendlu yaKwaNgane. Uma ngisho kanjena, ngibhekise ekuthini, ngokwe ndabuko yabo, banga maSwati. They're of Swazi origins.

Ezinye ze zithakazelo zabo zithi bona: ngoSothole, oSogodi, oNgwane kaMthiyane. Bawu zalo lunye nendlu yakwa Khanyile. Uma ubona uKhanyile, ubone uLanga. Ngoku njalo, uma nje uthi klabe uLanga - wuKhanyile loyo!

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi

Posted by: MTHWENTWEHLABA1

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/18/08 03:02 PM

ESHWA KWAZE KWABAMNANDI LA EKHAYA
Sapho lweNkosi, ukhona ongazi Abakwa Ndlovu eTshakapela, bangobani njalo bangumhlobo bani?
Siyabonga
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/18/08 03:28 PM

Mthwentwehlaba1

Where is the place called Tshakapela? If ise Kalangaland, then those Ndlovus are of Kalanga origins. They're a subsection & direct descendants zamaShona.

I've covered the origins of uNdlovu some time back. Just dig back & you'll see it.I only addressed uNdlovu waKwaZulu.

Suffice to say that, oNdlovu are many different stripes. Kukhona uNdlovu wa kwelika Mthaniya. Loyo nguGatsheni, Boya Benyathi, buya songwa, buya sombuluka. OMthiyane!

Kubuye kube khona oNdlovu aba mikhakha miningi. Uzo khumbula ukuthi indlovu yi silwane (an animal), okanye ngithi, yinyamazane (a wild animal) ethe chithi saka umhlaba wonkana. Ngoku njalo, okuyi zizwe nokuyi zizwana umhlaba ungaka, kwathatha igama lale nyamazane kwalenza isibongo. Yingakho kunabo Ndlovu ebuKalanga (eg Naison Khutshekhaya Ndlovu), oZhou/Nzou ebuShona, oNdou ebuVenda, oNjobvu ebuZambezi, Tlou & Motloung kube Sotho, Oliphant kumaXhosa namaBhunu etc etc. The common thread kubo labantu is the name of the animal - indlovu/elephant. Laba bantu are not at all related or connected to uGatsheni Boya Benyathi. Izithakazelo zabo mina Nkwali yenkosi angizazi, zaziwa yibona kunye nezi nsapho zabo.


Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: MTHWENTWEHLABA1

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/18/08 03:45 PM

Ngiyabonga kakhulu. Mina yimi engingasacacanga. ETshakapela yisitemo or isangelo, I think it means the same. It is not a place.
THANK YOU
Posted by: Msupatsila

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 05:31 AM

Angithembi ukuthi nga uGumpo, lo Gumbo bayafana, ongabe esazi engasiza bafowethu ngoba kukhona okuzovela. Baphumaphi laba bantu njalo bengumhlobo muni??
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 06:55 AM

Mkhombandlela

U-Gumbo no Gumpo yinto yinye. Ngoku dabuka laba bantu ngamaShona. Uzo khumbula ukuthi unyawo yi-gumbo ngesi Shona. Isibongo sabo siqhamuka lapho ke.

U-Gumbo still remains a Shona person. Bese uGumpo kube yi Mthwakazian equivalent kaGumbo. Mthwakazian equivalent ngoba eyi Kalanga, an offshoot of amaShona.

In summary, these two guys are one and the same. Awukho umehluko. Nga madoda ase buShona lawa!

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi

Posted by: Msupatsila

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 07:21 AM

Ngiyethemba ukuthi uGumbo/ Gumbo kala budlelwano lo Gumbi mhlawumbe yimina esengiphalaza ma sengibeka lababntu lo Gumbi. Ngibona kusengathi ngake ngezwa isibongo sako Gumbi akunjanlo bandla.

Mnumzane ulwazi lwakho nje kuphela lungishaya ngaphakathi
Posted by: eLangeni

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 07:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Muntongenakudla
Mthwentwehlaba1


Laba bantu are not at all related or connected to uGatsheni Boya Benyathi. Izithakazelo zabo mina Nkwali yenkosi angizazi, zaziwa yibona kunye nezi nsapho zabo.



kuthiwa (if my mother remmebers correctly)

Gatsheni!
Boya benyathi!
Buyasongwa buyasombuluka.
Mpongo kaZingelwayo!
Nina bakwandlovu zidl' ekhaya,
Ngokweswel' abelusi.
Nina bakwakhumbula amagwala.
Nina bakwademazane ntombazana
Nina bakwasihlangu sihle.
Mthiyane!
Ngokuthiy'amadod'emazibukweni.
Nina bakwaMdubusi!
Posted by: Thami

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 08:00 AM

ngiyabonga ngolwazi. Umangifuna oluthexhaxha, ikhona yini mhlaw'mpe incwadi ethile engangisiza ngalokhu.
No offence, i just want to find out ukuthi ulwazi engilithola la luthembakele kangakanani (source),
Ngiyabonga.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 08:31 AM

Mkhombandlela

U-Gumbi has absolutely zilch to do with Gumbo/Gumpo. U-Gumbi uphuma KwaZulu. Akahlobene nezizwana zamaShona, oGumbo/Gumpo.


eLangeni

I said, izithakazelo za labantu o-Zhou/Nzou, Ndou etc angizazi coz aba hlobene noGatsheni, Boya Benyathi. I never said babizwa nge zithakazelo zoMthiyane etc. You're wrong to give them izithakazelo zaKwaZulu bona beyi zithuluba (uthuli lwezwe)!

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 09:17 AM

Welcome back mnumzane..ingabe usuke waxoxa ngodaba lwama"khosi" afuna ukubekwa abe ngamakhosi azimele ngaphandle kokuholwa yisilo kwaZulu. ?? asiyithungele ebandla....
Posted by: mhla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 10:42 AM

Mina Bafowethu Ngisacela ukwazi ubudlelwano phakathi ku Ncube lo Mncube ngoba phela bobabili ngabako Mzilankatha .
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 10:54 AM

Mhla

UMncube no Ncube are not related at all. Awume kancane, ngizo thinta usbali wami uMncube ngalena eSinqawunqawini - then ngize ngiku tshene ukuthi wat gaan daarso!

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 11:00 AM

mncube and ncube do exist as ndebeles and zulus exist... this is if the ncube is a mzilankatha, khambule, basemaChubeni ababeduma ngobucwepheshe ekwenzeni izikhali zempi ezifana nemikhonto ngesikhathi iLembe lisakha isizwe sakwaZulu... other Ncube's with different origins i will not endeavour to engage in ngoba ngingabazi mina...it appears that this is a change in spelling with distance from source of name.. eg , khambule, nkambule in swazi, u get dhlamini, dlamini, u get mncube ncube..mkhwanazi mkhwananzi.. i stand to be corrected..

some one posted a while ago on izithakazelo zakwaNkomo- kwazulu, oNkomo ngoNgubeni, khubisa, Mntungwa (reggie khumalo affirms this ) , vezi, etc...
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 11:05 AM

Muntongenakudla i do stand to be corrected as my post below indicates.. Ncube and Mncube do have a relation ship , both surnames will lead you to Mzilankatha, Mlotshwa, khambule....but there does exist other Ncubes with no link to Mncube, which i imagine would eb from otehr Nguni origins perhaps...The insistenc in most research coems with teh examples given with Mkhwananzi, Mkhwanazi suggested as deviations of each other...Nkambule and Khambule as disscussedin my last post...But as i said..this is from my own research, and may not neccessarily qualify as universally true...
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 11:31 AM

Bhakaniya

Ezika Magebhula! Ezimnyama ngenkani!

I'll have to revert to my research sources about the rest of the surnames. Very soon I'll be back with answers.

Kwamanje mangithi correct udaba lwendlu yanga kithi. There's only one Mkhwanazi house. Ayikho enye. If ngakini le eZimbabwe bethi Mkhwananzi, it's just a spelling mistake. Just like Khumalo & Kumalo. Kuse yindlu yinye - it's only spelling mistakes.

Uma ubuka, uMkhwanazi munye coz akekho uMkhwanazi onga thandana okanye agane/aganwe ngomunye uMkhwanazi. We're one, oNcube, Sibanda, Moyo etc abathandana baganane. Ngu mhlola lona.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 11:46 AM

you affirm my assertion earlier ukuthi the vhange in surnames are born from distance from teh source of the surname... and to correct you, i have only ever been to zimbabwe once in my life to do research on the cecil john rhodes... mina kithi kulena eMatimatolo, ngase Greytown, kwaJoseph ...nginguNgcobo , umaPholoba mina... and generally am fascinated by southern african nguni history, an dam off to zambia soon and will appreciate any help from forum members with positive contributions...hope your research yields more info for all interested.. ngiyifunde kabanzi imibono yakho mnumzane, and i highly value them
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 11:48 AM

meant range/divergence/ difference... my apology
Posted by: Sibambamahawu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 01:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Muntongenakudla
Mhla

UMncube no Ncube are not related at all. Awume kancane, ngizo thinta usbali wami uMncube ngalena eSinqawunqawini - then ngize ngiku tshene ukuthi wat gaan daarso!

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi


According to uReggie Sipho Khumalo, uNcube noMncube yisibongo esiyi one. Kufana noNtshangase noZulu.
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 01:08 PM

mina ngazi ukuthi oZulu, ngo ndabezitha, phunga, mageba, ...kodwa ke ukufunda phela amanzi olwandle ...
Posted by: Sibambamahawu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 01:38 PM

Kuyiqiniso nalokho Bhakabhaka okushoyo. Ingathi sengilibala ukuthi bekuyimiphi imuzi noma izindlu zozalo lwakwaZulu, okwathi lapho insizwa isithande intombi ehlobene nayo, kwadingakala ukuthi bafuduke basuke lapha ekhaya bayekwakha buqamama njalo bashintshe isibongo, njengoba bebexoshiwe lapha ekhaya bakuthatha ngokuthi banTshingiwe yikho saqala kanjalo isibongo soNtshangase.Angisakhumbuli kahle Bhakaniya, yikho ngizothanda ukusho ukuthi ngingabe ngiphaphalazile lana, uma ungathola incwadi kaReggie Sipho Khumalo ethi Uphoko umqulu wakuqala kulapho ozothola khona ulwazi oluqondile.
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 02:18 PM

ngiyabonga bhuti... nginalo uPhoko ... ngizofike ngifunde kahle bese ngiyagiya nami uma ungidedela
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 02:23 PM

Sibambimidlelo

Mr Nkala lapha usu senga nezi mithi. UNtshangase aka kaze azalane noZulu nango suku olu lodwa. Loyo uhubhu kabhejane, amanga aluhlaza cwe. Uyabheda nje.

UNtshangase uzalana noBiyela. Uku ntshangwa kwakhe lokhu kwa qhamuka lapho ehlubuka kwaBiyela.

UNcube noMncube are not related. Prove it kimina mthaka. Where in uMashobane's book is it written? Which page baba?

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: iBoyz yezkweyeni

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 02:30 PM

Kengibuze ma gents. U 'Mkhwanazi' uyadlelana/hlobana lo 'Mkhwananzi' na?
Posted by: Sibambamahawu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 03:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Muntongenakudla
Sibambimidlelo

Mr Nkala lapha usu senga nezi mithi. UNtshangase aka kaze azalane noZulu nango suku olu lodwa. Loyo uhubhu kabhejane, amanga aluhlaza cwe. Uyabheda nje.

UNtshangase uzalana noBiyela. Uku ntshangwa kwakhe lokhu kwa qhamuka lapho ehlubuka kwaBiyela.

UNcube noMncube are not related. Prove it kimina mthaka. Where in uMashobane's book is it written? Which page baba?

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi

Ingathi ngishilo ukuthi angisenalo iqinisa eliphelele ngalokhu ebengikubhala ngoNtshangase, ngiyavuma ukuthi ungabe uyishaye khona ekhanda Ndonga ngokuthi siqhamuka kwesakwaBiyela. Xola kulokho, ngibuye ngixolise nasebandleni. Bengingahlose kudukisa muntu.

UMncube noNcube yinto eyodwa, angikubuzi, ngiyakutshena. Angizange ngisho ukuthi lolulwazi ngilucaphune kuncwadi kaSipho, lolungaluthola kuye uSipho ngesikhathi esasethulela uhlelo lwezaqheqhe. Ngeshwa amakhasethi wami wonke ngawashiya ekhaya.
Posted by: uzphoso

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Msupatsila
Ngiyethemba ukuthi uGumbo/ Gumbo kala budlelwano lo Gumbi mhlawumbe yimina esengiphalaza ma sengibeka lababntu lo Gumbi. Ngibona kusengathi ngake ngezwa isibongo sako Gumbi akunjanlo bandla.

Mnumzane ulwazi lwakho nje kuphela lungishaya ngaphakathi


Uxolo Msupatsila baba, i-theory yakho ngabakoGumbo ikhanya i-right kodwa hatshi o-Gumbi, ngoba mina ngilabantu besiShoneni engibaziyo abomdabuko owelangeMozambique okwakathesi bengabaseMutare (amaManyika) abangoGumbi bezila imvu-sheep njalo bezithi ngoTshuma nxa bethanda ukuzisondeza kwelikaMthwakazi njengoba kwaziwa ukuthi isizwe esiseEastern Highlands neLowveld (amaNdau, amaShangane/Tshangani labanye beGaza) balobudlelwano lamaNdebele okwamuva ebuNgunini kulamanye amaShona angabe athe ajoina in the recent past.

Ngizathatha leli thuba ngiphinde ukudinga ulwazi bakwethu ngabantu abakoMathuthu, Ndlela, kumbe Matsheza okubikwa bebanye nxa ekhona ololwazi.
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 05:22 PM

Muntongenakudla i think your assertion on Mncube and Ncube need s to be proven by yourself before anyone else does so. I do also qualify that Ncube and Mncube exist differently only as spelling variations. They are the same thing. I trust you know Andile Ncube of sabc, i trust you know Don Ncube the empowerement mogul, i trust you know Thobile Mncube sabc news reader., intombazane yakwa Thema just outside joburg on the N3 towards durban, ongowasoLundi ngokuzalwa...bonke laba bantu engikhuluma ngabo ngibazi ngelami iso, hayi nje ngokufunda ngabo emaphepheni.. bonke bazibiza ngoMzilankatha...i also qualify to you ukuthi umnu RS Khumalo naye ngowaso Lundi...and i have had numerous personal conversations with him on especialay on Mzilikazi in my research on Rhodes..ngicela ungathatheli phantsi imibono yabantu abakuhlopha kanjengoba uhlonishwa kulenkundla...you are knowledgeable, and i encourage you to share the knowledge with all forumers without being derogatory. If you still think uNcube akahlobene neze noMncube...ngiyazigeza mnumzane...i say again, like most forumers have said, that i stand to be corrected, and will enjoy engagement of ideas than diversion to ridiculing one another..people on this forum are here to build and share not to destroy...
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 05:31 PM

Also you err when you say Ntshangase and Zulu are not related...uqondile uma uthi wena uNtshngase no Biyela bayazalana, mhlawumbe ngokungazi kwakho, ulibala ukuthi uNtshangase uzalwa enndlini kaNdaba , ozalwa uMageba kaZulu!! Uma kukhona onolwazi olujulile ngalomuzi wakwaNtshangase, ngicela angeseke, angidinge kuvunwa bohlanga uma ngikhuluma into engaqondile...
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 05:41 PM

ngisize ke Muntongenakudla ngezinye izithakazelo zoNkomo base Natali uma uzazi...angithi nje uNkomo uzalwa uWokoza, yena owazalwa uMnyenyeza wakwa Mpukunyoni engithema uyabazi bonke labo bantu ngoba uzalo lwaka Mkhwanazi?? uma ungazazi ndoda emadodeni, sala usungiphenyela ke...?? Education is not the filling of a big empty drum but the lighting of a fire....
Posted by: Ndukuzibomvu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/19/08 07:25 PM

Sihayo!

Here are some excerpts from the books of Rev. A.T. Bryant and R.S. Khumalo....

AbakwaNtshangase nabakwaBiyela

References:
1. A.T. Bryant: Olden Times in Zululand and Natal (Longmans. London, 1929).
2. R.S. Khumalo: Uphoko, Umqulu 1 (Shuter and Shooter, 1995).

Ngiyabonga.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/20/08 07:28 AM

Uzphoso

O-Gumbi laba obathola kumaNdau, those are of Shangaan extraction. They are not Shona, were never Shona & will never be Shona. Uzo khumbula ukuthi amaShangaan ngo kwendabuka baphume KwaZulu. There's a very good CD I had by Thokozani Mandlenkosi Nene ngo 2004. It's called Wise Corner. I bought for just R10, but the value yayo is priceless. Now one drunkard fellow lost that CD. I tried everywhere to look for it - even kwaGallo records itself - but ayi sekho. The master tape kwa Gallo has even been deleted. Eish ngiya khala.

Anyway, lelo CD belino mlando o-strong ngama Afrika. Ebesho uNene ukuthi amaShangani la, aphuma khona la kweliKaMthaniya. Yingakho sibantu banye.

Bhakaniya

Well, ngiye ngathintana nenye ingwenya yami yakwaNcube. Indeed, Ncube is related to Mncube. Yindlu yinye. Ngiye ngabheda nje ekuqaleni. Mangi xolise kuleyo ndawo.

Hhayi ke, lendoda iye yangi chathekela izithakazelo zayo. Ithi bona noMncube bango:

Mzilankatha
Khambule
Mlotshwa
Onkatha kayingeni endlini
Omalandel’ ilanga
Balilandela laze layo shona kunina


Angi bonge.

I checked Biyela/Ntshangase too. Indeed baphuma endlini kaZulu. Kushukuthi bengi shukile izolo. Noma nje nginga bhemi umthetho wami. Kushukuthi yile ntuthu yensangu zolopholo balaph' ekhaya! Iye yafinyelela ngakimi, ngayi hogela, ngathi ukugqwegqwa kancane, ngabheda.

P/S: I'll check Nkomo ngoba ngino mngani wami ovuth' ekhaleni wakwaNkomo. Kwamanje umlungu uya ngibiza engadini. Kusafanele ngiyo nisela izimbali, ngitshale nobhatata.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi

Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/20/08 07:50 AM

Kwande la othathe khona Nkwali yeNkosi....ngiyayihlonipha indoda evuma amaphutha ayo....ngithemba baningi abafo abazosizakala uma sisebenza kanjena...lets keep the thread going...
Posted by: Sibambamahawu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/20/08 10:06 AM

Quote:
Well, ngiye ngathintana nenye ingwenya yami yakwaNcube. Indeed, Ncube is related to Mncube. Yindlu yinye. Ngiye ngabheda nje ekuqaleni. Mangi xolise kuleyo ndawo.
Angi bonge.

I checked Biyela/Ntshangase too. Indeed baphuma endlini kaZulu. Kushukuthi bengi shukile izolo. Noma nje nginga bhemi umthetho wami. Kushukuthi yile ntuthu yensangu zolopholo balaph' ekhaya! Iye yafinyelela ngakimi, ngayi hogela, ngathi ukugqwegqwa kancane, ngabheda.


I was really tempted ukuthi ngizithulele ngingakuncomi ngentuthuko oyitshengise lapha. Sesiside isikhathi sixoxisana lana eNkundleni besengizitshena ukuthi you are not capable of ubuntu, kodwa namhlanje you proved me wrong. Uma ngingaphazami this is the first time you have done so. Okuhle kuhle nsizwa yakithi. From today ngikunikeza isicoco esikufanele, isibongo sakho uzoba nguMthwakazi.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/20/08 11:10 AM

Sibambimidlelo

Please, please, ungangi bizi ngoMthwakazi. I refuse to be addressed ngalelo gama. It doesn't define who I am. Igama lami uya lazi. Ngingu Muntongenakudla kaShamase.

Just call me that.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Madlenya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/20/08 04:44 PM

Muntongenakudla Mthwakazi
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/21/08 06:36 AM

Kazi what point you're trying to prove wee Madlenyandini.

That you're cleverer than me okanye uya ngeyisa nje?

Whatever your reasons, just cut me off the Mthwakazian this, Mthwakazian that mumbojumbo. Just take that ethnic drivel elsewhere coz I aint part of it.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: Madlenya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/21/08 08:43 AM


There is no greater honour than this, i am not despising you but honouring your improvement in ubuntu. How are you today Mr Mthwakazi?

MUNTONGENAKUDLA MTHWAKAZI



Originally Posted By: Muntongenakudla
Kazi what point you're trying to prove wee Madlenyandini.

That you're cleverer than me okanye uya ngeyisa nje?

Whatever your reasons, just cut me off the Mthwakazian this, Mthwakazian that mumbojumbo. Just take that ethnic drivel elsewhere coz I aint part of it.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Posted by: mhla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/21/08 09:01 AM

Manje , Nkwali nawe Bhakaniya , Thina bakoNcube wesizwe sako Mthwakazi yingani izithakazelo / izithemo zethu zifane kuMzilankatha / Mazilankatha kuphela . uma ziqhubeka azitsho o Mlothwa kuyaphambili , kodwa zithi zona
Mazilankatha / Mzilankatha,
Zibi zendlela ,
Zikhali Zomkhonto,
Mzila Kawulandelwa,

Ukuwulandela ukuzibambelela,
Wona ulandelwa yizinkonjane
.

Hayi Ke , ngizazi ziphelela lapho ke mina ezami ngingu Ncube the Mthwakazian NOT Mthamian.

Kukhona o [color:#CC33CC]Ncube Makhula [/color], Nabo banezabo .

Kukhona o Ncube Denderende [color:#CC33CC] [/color], nabo futhi.

Kukhona o [color:#663366]Ncube Sweswe [/color], noba futhi .

Banengi kakhul'o Ncube le kwelakithi Futhi izithakazelo zethu azifani , abanye baze baganane ( lokho nginobufazi bamehlo ami )
Ingabe kukhona iphutshana kulokho na ?? nina zazi kangco zakithi
Posted by: Madlenya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/21/08 09:16 AM

Mhla
Indlela obhala ngayo ingathi ayinambitheki, uma uzothi abantu yizazi zakini, lokhu yikuthethisa abantu. Akekho umuntu angazi ngomlando wakini okwedlula wena.
Kodwa noma kunjalo ngizozama ukuchaza ukuthi kungani izithakazelo zakwaNcube abakwaMthwakazi noNcube bekwelikaMthaniya. Okwesibonelo, izibongo zenkosi uMzilikazi ngsikhathi eseseNgome nangesikhathi esdabule esakhe esizwe ziyehluka kancane.
Posted by: mhla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/21/08 12:44 PM

Ngixolise kakhulu , kini bafowethu ngalokhu elikuzwa sengathi ngiyathethisa / ngiyathukana uma ngithi ( zazi zakithi) , kumane-nje kwashelela umunwe lapha ku key board ye computer . Ningixolele , bese niqhubeka nosizo bo . Phela mina ngingowako Ncube kwelika Mthwakazi & ngithandana nentombazana yako Ncube kwelaka Mthamiya
. Kuze kube manje , besikwenza konke okwenziwa ngabantu abathandanayo futhi singaliboni nelincane icala. Ngiqala ukufikelwa wuvalo manje ngoba sekupolitikwa ngezibongo lapha enkundleni .
Posted by: bongani

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/21/08 12:54 PM

mfowethu kungathi usejayivini!!!
Posted by: mhla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/21/08 12:59 PM

Re: Origins yezibongo [Re: mhla]
bongani bongani
Sakhamuzi


Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 86
Loc: Afrika mfowethu kungathi usejayivini!!!


Kodwa ngibone phela Ndoda ukutyhi Ngenze njani .
Posted by: mhla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/21/08 01:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Madlenya
Mhla
Indlela obhala ngayo ingathi ayinambitheki, uma uzothi abantu yizazi zakini, lokhu yikuthethisa abantu. Akekho umuntu angazi ngomlando wakini okwedlula wena.
Kodwa noma kunjalo ngizozama ukuchaza ukuthi kungani izithakazelo zakwaNcube abakwaMthwakazi noNcube bekwelikaMthaniya. Okwesibonelo, izibongo zenkosi uMzilikazi ngsikhathi eseseNgome nangesikhathi esdabule esakhe esizwe ziyehluka kancane.

________________________________________________________________
SORRY
Posted by: bongani

Re: Origins yezibongo - 02/21/08 01:12 PM

uxolo , mina ngisayi'boyz' so ezamasiko angiziphathanga grand grand. ngizokudlulisela ebadaleni, angithi bathi 'inyathi ibuzwa kwabaphambili'. but i somehow feel that into eniyenzayo ilihlazo ... best of luck, mfana!!!
Posted by: mhla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/13/08 08:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Muntongenakudla
Moyo is of Shona origins. A heart is mwoyo in Shona. These people are undisputedly of Shona extraction. Their totem is Vuma balanda (ngesiNdebele)or Vuma varanda in Shona. Kubuye kuthiwe ngo mageza ngobisi or mageza nemukaka. Kushukuthi oMoyo basesiNdebeleni baseyinto yinye namaShona. They're one & bakhonza idlozi linye! They only came to be part of Mntungwa's nation by assimilation. UMntungwa kaMbulazi absorbed the Moyo from the conquered Shona & henceforth they became amaHole, a part of the Ndebele, alongside the Enhla nathi abeNguni.

Sibanda: Laba ngabantu besi Tswana ngokwendabuko. They're called Sebata (pronounced Sibata) ngesi Tswana. Their totem is Tau tona(Tswana for great lion - ingonyama enkulu!) and has been adapted to Dawu duna ngesiNdebele. They're royalty kube Tswana. If you listen to all Tswana praise poets, they always emphasise a lot on Tau. They're Tau this, Tau that, blah, blah. For evidence, listen to Stoan Seete of Bongo Maffin - uzibongela kamnandi ngobu Tau bakubo. Also listen to Siphokazi Maraqana's new album, Ubuntu bam. Listen to song number 3 on the album: lapho ubonga those who helped her athi "Sebata, Tau thank you" etc etc.

In summary, mina wangaphesheya koThukela, mina Nkwali yenkosi, uShamase wangempela, uMtubatuba kaSomkhele, ngithi:
Moyo is undiluted Shona.
Sibanda is Tswana

Wena uthini?

Uthini ke uma loSibanda othi wena are Tshwanas - Ma ngithi mina uSibanda ngu Chipanta ngesi nyasa futhi is a Nyasa .
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/13/08 09:31 AM

Mhla

Ungu Mafikizolo wangempela - utatazela sengathi uchatha uhlanya.

You're living in darkness. I'll make you see the light. Ngoku bhabhadiza ngo mlilo mina kaNkwali.

Isihloko sale ngosi sithi: "Origins yezibongo". Lokhu kusho umsusa, isiqalo, indabuko, umthombo wesibongo ngesi bongo.

Wena ke ngobu phukuphuku bakho, ukha phezulu, ebese uya gxumagxuma, excitedly like igwababa eliphethe umgodo. Ngiya kwexwayisa: musa ukugiya ngethambo lenyama ongayi dlile. Wubulima lobo.

That you're Chipanta & are Nyasa is undisputed ngoba vese angiwazi umlando wase buNyasa. But that does not in any manner give you the audacity to blatantly lie & obfuscate the truth uthi ene, bonke oSibanda ba qhamuka endlini yakini ebuNyasa. That's equivalent to a moronic Njovu suggesting that all Ndlovus ngama Zambezi.

Ngama mpunge!

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Umicondo yegusha!
U-jacket lika 3 years!
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/13/08 12:38 PM

Bafowethu.

Unanzelele lapha Sibambamahawu. Lami kungithethe isikhathi ukuthi ngiginye lesi senzo soMTHONGA WAKWETHU Kwa MTHWAKAZI.

Ngincindezele from Mthongs:>>> I checked Biyela/Ntshangase too. Indeed baphuma endlini kaZulu. Kushukuthi bengi shukile izolo. Noma nje nginga bhemi umthetho wami. Kushukuthi yile ntuthu yensangu zolopholo balaph' ekhaya! Iye yafinyelela ngakimi, ngayi hogela, ngathi ukugqwegqwa kancane, ngabheda.<<< Ngime ukuncindezela.

U MTHWAKAZI UYAFUNDISA SIBILI. Akekho ongazi yonke into. Njalo yikuba Ngu MTHWAKAZI OMHLE ukuxolisa. Thank you MTHONGA WAKWETHU.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: lucky

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/25/08 11:41 AM

Bafowethu ,ngiyanibingelela, bengicela ningisize ngezithakazelo zakwaMncube,uma kungakhona ozaziyo. uma ekhona futhi ongazi ezakwaNcube ngingajabula kakhulu
Posted by: iBoyz yezkweyeni

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/25/08 11:50 AM

Originally Posted By: lucky
Bafowethu ,ngiyanibingelela, bengicela ningisize ngezithakazelo zakwaMncube,uma kungakhona ozaziyo. uma ekhona futhi ongazi ezakwaNcube ngingajabula kakhulu


Lucky, ngikunike okwashiwo ngu zuluboy walapha.

" Well, ngiye ngathintana nenye ingwenya yami yakwaNcube. Indeed, Ncube is related to Mncube. Yindlu yinye. Ngiye ngabheda nje ekuqaleni. Mangi xolise kuleyo ndawo.

Hhayi ke, lendoda iye yangi chathekela izithakazelo zayo. Ithi bona noMncube bango:

Mzilankatha
Khambule
Mlotshwa
Onkatha kayingeni endlini
Omalandel’ ilanga
Balilandela laze layo shona kunina

Angi bonge.

"
Posted by: Z61m

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/25/08 07:06 PM

Originally Posted By: lucky
Bafowethu ,ngiyanibingelela, bengicela ningisize ngezithakazelo zakwaMncube,uma kungakhona ozaziyo. uma ekhona futhi ongazi ezakwaNcube ngingajabula kakhulu


INcube zinengi njalo zehlukene, ikakhulu ezaseZimbagwe. Mhlawumbe kwaZulu iNcube yinye, kodwa kwelakithi zinengi kabi iNcube, lezithakazelelo zakhona zehlukene. KulaboNcube abangama Khalanga, oNcube abangabe Suthu, kube laboNcube abangabeNguni, njalo abanye oNcube ngabasebuVenda lasebuTonga!

Izitemo (izithakazelelo) zehlukene.

http://www.inkundla.net/ubbthreads7olde/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=5&Number=33148

http://www.inkundla.net/ubbthreads7olde/...=true#Post33027

kumbe

http://www.inkundla.net/ubbthreads7olde/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=3&Number=5401
Posted by: Sibambamahawu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/25/08 07:34 PM

Yeah Z68, usho kahle kakhulu, kodwa ngicabanga ukuthi bebesho oNcube noMncube ukuthi yinto eyodwa, ikakhulu kwaZulu Natal. Ekhaya uqinisile abantu bakwaNcube behlukile kakhulu njengoba uchazile.
Posted by: mhla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/26/08 11:34 AM

Originally Posted By: Muntongenakudla
Mhla

Ungu Mafikizolo wangempela - utatazela sengathi uchatha uhlanya.

You're living in darkness. I'll make you see the light. Ngoku bhabhadiza ngo mlilo mina kaNkwali.

Isihloko sale ngosi sithi: "Origins yezibongo". Lokhu kusho umsusa, isiqalo, indabuko, umthombo wesibongo ngesi bongo.

Wena ke ngobu phukuphuku bakho, ukha phezulu, ebese uya gxumagxuma, excitedly like igwababa eliphethe umgodo. Ngiya kwexwayisa: musa ukugiya ngethambo lenyama ongayi dlile. Wubulima lobo.

That you're Chipanta & are Nyasa is undisputed ngoba vese angiwazi umlando wase buNyasa. But that does not in any manner give you the audacity to blatantly lie & obfuscate the truth uthi ene, bonke oSibanda ba qhamuka endlini yakini ebuNyasa. That's equivalent to a moronic Njovu suggesting that all Ndlovus ngama Zambezi.

Ngama mpunge!

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Umicondo yegusha!
U-jacket lika 3 years!


Eeah , Zuluboy Mfokababa , wena ozithi unguNkwali yenkosi ,Mina ngeza eGoli nge double up , kodwa imilayo yangakithi ngisayilandela lanamhlanje ,sengahlala eGoli lase Thekwini - kodwa ngiyi Ndebele boy not uthathekile . ubobahlonipha abanye abantu njengoba labo bekuhlonipha bengakwazi ngamehlo enyama . wena uthatha amanye amadoda uwenze omahosha bakho ngoba uthembe ubugabazi bomlomo wakho lowo ophendula umhlaba wonke ungaka . bazoze bakufinyelele ngezandla abakwaziyo lapho uhambakhona .

Eyinye indoda enamasende lepipi njengawe ( OKUNGENZEKA UKUTHI ILALA noma SEYAKE YALALA LODADEWENU noma LALO SISI OSENGUMKAKHO ) ayiphendulwa sengathi uphendula isifebe sakho . Uzozidelelisa ngabantu ongabaziyo , uphinde uzakhele izitha ngomlomo wakho lowo ongahloniphiyo. Wonke lawo maganyana osungibize ngawo ungangazi angibonisa kahle ukuthi uphuma ekhaya elinjani , lokuthi uzithi ufundile wena ungafundanga . uyazi ukuthi kungakudalela isitha okwempilo yakho yonke ukubiza umuntu ngamagama afana lalawo osungibize ngawo ? Kodwa uzithi ufundile futhi uhlakaniphile , ubona mina ngiphila ebumnyameni , kodwa abantu abakhaliphileyo babona wena kunguwe osebumnyameni futhi ongasoze waphuma ngoba uzithi wazi kakhulu kulabantu bonke emhlabeni ngakho awufuni ukubonoswa.
Engicela ukwazi ke wena sazi sase inkundla ( Mzulu ) yikuthi inkundla le ngeyemibono kabani lobani obambisana labanye hayi wena olwa labantu abakubonisayo . Ngicela ukhule futhi wande ngengqondo hatshi ngomlomo omude okugwegwela izitha ezikude nawe .Futhi ukhaliphe hatshi ukihlakanipha .

Nguwe owathi izibongo ezibizwa ngezinyamazana zinga tholakala noma kuphi komhlaba indabuko yazo yileyo nyamazana okubizwa ngayo . waze wenza isibonelo ngo Ndlovu .Njovu , Tlou , Ndou , Elephant , Oliphants , ETC . kwavuma inkundla yonke ngoba kutsho wena sazi esingafuni ukuboniswa . Pho isibanda sona sehlukene kuphi lendlovu ngoba laso yinyamazana igcwele umhlaba wonke . akekho ongathi saqala e Natali , Mthwakazi , Nyasaland . ofunayo naye uzibiza ngaso . inkinga yakho yikuphapha nje kuphela .
Posted by: mhla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/26/08 12:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Muntongenakudla
Nyandeni

Don't confuse issues here. Ndlovu is not even of Zulu origins. I covered this topic some time back ngabo 2004/2005.

Nonetheless, I'll take my time to re-explain. UNdlovu lona esimbona la kwelikaMthaniya (ie KwaZulu) ebizwa ngoGatsheni, boya benyathi, buya songwa buya sombuluka, Mthiyane etc, is not of Zulu origins. He is of Sotho extraction. Uqale engu Tlou or Motloung, kwase eba nguNdlovu ngokufuduka kwakhe engena KwelikaMthaniya. That's the Ndlovu loyo esimaziyo thina endlini yakwethu KwaZulu.

Be that as it may, indlovu yinyamazane egcwele yonk' indawo yase Afrika. As such, okuyi zizwana konkana kuthathe igama lale nyamazane, kwayenza isibongo sakho. To that extent kunabo Ndou KwaVenda (ngamaHole!), Ndlovu ebuKalanga (ngamaHole!), Zhou ebuShona, Njovu kumaZambezi (ngamaHole!), kunye nokunye okungoNdlovu enginge kuqede kwizizwana zonkana umhlaba ungaka! All these stripes of Ndlovus are not Gatsheni, Boya benyathi, Mthiyane! Never. They are not Zulu, were never Zulu & will never be. If they refer themselves as Gatsheni, bathukuthelisa izinyanya zakwaGatsheni. As such, bayowelwa ngumshipoti, umkhokha, ukhriphula webhadi! Mabakhonze izinyanya zakubo zangempela - sengisho amagidel' endlini ansondo!

Kunjalo nakuMpofu. OMpofu bakwaXhosa are not in any way having a common ancestor nabakwaMgodoyi. Never. AbakwaMgodoyi bazibiza oMpofu ngenyamazane, impofu, yet kwaXhosa bazibiza ngobumpofu, umbala wento (colour). It must be clear as well ukuthi oMpofu bakwaMgodoyi are of Shona extraction. Akekho umuntu wakwaMpofu kwaMgodoyi oqhamuke kwaNguni. The ones abangamaNdebele njengamanje, ngamaHole 9 9! They were assimilated ngokaMntungwa, ebathathe kubo ebuShona, baba ngamaHole!

Sengishilo mina wakwaNdonga, uShamase, inkwali yenkosi yangale, ngaphesheya koThukela. Ngeke ngashintsha ngikhefuze amanga ukuze ngithandeke emphakathini. Mina ngobheka phambili, ngime ngeqiniso kude kuyovalwa!

AbakwaXhosa bathi: ukuqala kobulumko, kukoyika uJehova. M'na ndohlala ndimoyika!




uyazizwa ukuthi ufuna ukuthini lapha , Ndoda yeka ukuba ngumaqinase . Thina sijwayele omaqinase babafazi hayi amadoda , yekela abanikazi bezibongo baziphendulele . wena uzophendulela abakwa Shamase since are the ones you originally represent and stop claiming being a master of information yet we all know that an empty tin make a lot of noise . Do not assume that as we are quiet or do not put our suggestions in English language means are either un educated or ignorant . NO , we are maintaining and furthering our dignities as men . At the same time listening to your lies and monitoring your mislead . If i were you , i would rather have pretended like other guys to being gays .
Posted by: iBoyz yezkweyeni

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/26/08 12:36 PM

The first president wakwa Mthwakazi or Zimbabwe uzaba ngowakwa Ncube - manini libone!
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/26/08 12:39 PM

Mhla

Ehlisa umoya mthaka. Kuse mhlabeni lapha - awa funeki amazondo mfana mani! Uku thukuthela kwakho kumosha wena - kuzo kubangela i-stress, qede siku bangele u-high high (BP).

Schweet like a lemon.

Shamase Nkwali yenkosi
Umicondo yegusha
U-jacket lika 3 years!
Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/29/08 02:03 AM

Ngithanda ukulibingela lonke sizwe sikaMthwakazi,njalo ngibonga inhlakanipho yenu yokwenza sanelise ukuxhumana kuzozonke izinkalo zomhlaba ngalobubulembu.Ekuqabukeni kwami iNkundla emalangeni amathathu adlulileyo kunengi engikufundileyo ;inhlakanipho yabantu bakithi, ubungcwethi ekubhaleni ulimi lwakithi kanye lasezihlokweni ezinjengembali,izibongo njalonjalo.Phezu kwakho konke, ngithanda amahlaya lokunandisa kwalabo abaphoselana inyoka iphila.Ngibonga ukwamukelwa bantubakithi, ngifisa ukuthi iNkundla yande icine seyingumthombo wolwazi okuzothapha ubani lobani othandayo.Umfula ugcwaliswa yizifula lezifudlala,masandeni,kukhulu okuzayo.Banengi eNkundleni abakhanya bephiwe okokuthi banga loba izingcwadi, ngesiNdebele, isiZulu kanye langesiNgisi ;ngiyalikhuthaza bantu be Nkosi.Ubuqhawe lobukhokheli banamhlanje buzifeza ngendlela ezehlukeneyo.MASILIBAMBENI LINGATSHONI!

INVELAPHI YEZIBONGO:ngicela ukukhanyiselwa ngesibongo sako BHEBHE.Ebujaheni bami ngike ngaphila lentombi yakoBhebhe. Ekuceleni kwami izibongo zayo yazitema ngokuthi ngeyako MaZiwa yiNkosi(isangelo sokuqala), ma iqhubeka inhlanvu zolimi zaguquka zaba yisiLozwi angisazange nginelise ukuzibamba .Ma ngiyibuza ukuthi kambe uBhebhe uhlangana njani lesiLozwi yathi yona:UBhebhe uqakathekile kakhulu esizweni sika Mthwakazi ngoba ekufikeni kweNkosi uMzilikazi kwele Nkosi uMmambo,abeLozwi besebezwile ngobungwazi bakhe,njalo babebesaba.UMmambo waphangisa wakhulumisana laye ukuthi mabahlalisane kahle njengemibuso emibili.Ukugcwalisela leso zivumelwano sokuthula uMmambo wanikela ngenkosazana yakhe kuMzilikazi kuyindlela yokushixelela ubudlelwano gegazi.Leyo nkosazana yiyo eyadabula u Bhebhe,uMaZiwa yiNkosi,uMzilikazi.Njalo ngaziswa ukuthi khona linkosazana ingazange ibe ngumndlunkulu, yaletha izifinhlo zesizwe (njengabanikazi bomhlaba), ebeziqakathekile embusweni kaMthwakazi.Yebo, siyazi ukuthi umfazi kalabuHole, iHole yindoda.Kungakho nje abafazi bezinhlanga bebethunjwa babe yizindlu ezincane kusandisa isizwe ngenzalo yabo.Njalo amakhosi ayaganiselana kuyoyonke imihlobo.

Ngabe yikuzisikela ehwahweni lokho na?Bathini abako Bhebhe kumbe abalolwazi ngabo? Bande kuziphi izabelo? Mina ngiphuma kwelikaMzimuni,engibaziyo bathe gqa gqa njalo abagcwali sandla kwelakithi.Ake lizibonge bo Maziwa sizwe!

Nanso ke Bantwana be Nkosi.Ibuzwa kwabayaziyo.

Akeliyitshukeni!
Ngiphinde ngibonge Mthwakazi.








Posted by: mbaleki

Re: Origins yezibongo - 04/16/08 12:20 PM

Awu futhi bafowethu,you have burst my bubble.Bengiziqhenya ngokuthi ngizitholele okuyimenya kwami kwesintwini,okuyisqabhobho kwami kwako Moyo,only to learn from you guys ukuthi ngi busy ngenza ama plans okuzitshadela le tshona,my grandpa must be turning in his grave,hayi kunzima....
Posted by: kaVilakazi

Re: Origins yezibongo - 04/25/08 08:33 AM

Sanibonani nonke... bengicela ningisize ngezibongo nezithakazelo zakwa Vilakazi, makukhona onolwazi ngingathokozela uncedo lwenu...
Posted by: Mthakathi27

Re: Origins yezibongo - 04/25/08 08:41 AM

OBhebhe engibaziyo bathiwa ngoNzinda, ukuthi lokhu kuchaza ukuthini anagazi.
Posted by: duze

Re: Origins yezibongo - 04/25/08 09:36 PM

bafowethu ,Mthwakazi omuhle ninjani lanikhona izigodi ngezigodi, inkalo ngenkalo? nisaphila nalabo eniphila nabo? nginifisela ukwaneliseka empilweni zenu nonke yize sibhekane nokutshabalala kwesizwe sakithi.

bafowethu bengifisa ukuphawula ngezibongo esithi ngezesintu. sekukhona abathi izibongo ezithile eg. Moyo ngezesitshoneni. mina angivumelani nakho lokhu. singuMthwakazi sizazi kahle izibongo zesitshoneni.ezesintu nazo siyazazi.

mina ngokwazo kwami oMoyo ngamaNdebele. angikaze ngihlangane noMoyo we tshona. kukhona izibongo ezidabuka kwaZulu esizaziyo sonke. kodwa akusho ukuthi uma uesibongo esingaqhamuli kwaZulu awusilona iNdebele. siyazi sakhiwe kanjani isizwe sethu.

masiqaphele ukuthi kuzobakhona abazafuna ukusixabanisa thina singamaNdebele bethi , wena ugu Nkala or Ndlovu not Ndhlovu ect. crap, so uwusilona iNdebele lamampela. siyazazi thina. akutshintshi lutho. amaNdebele aziqhenya ngakho lokhu ukuthi sahlangana nnezibongo ezihlukileyo sakha uMthwakazi.

kukhona ingane izikhula esintwini zinezibongo zethu kube zizalwa ngabelisa besitshoneni. asibalahli umuntu akalahlwa ngelakithi isiko ulahlwa le empumalanga. asilwisi matshona solwisa izenzo zabo. namhlanje sokucubungulwa ukuthi izibongo ezithile zesiNdebeleni ziqhamukaphi? do i sense someone trying a crap tactic of divide and rule. ayikho. sonke lesikhati sibulawa nabo labo osokuthiwa bangamatshona bekungashiwo ngani ukthi cha labo ngamatshona? masiqaphele hlezi silahle abanye bethu.
siyazazi izibongo zesitshoneni,eg,pirimukai,garitenyoka,rukobo.virinenamoect. so singadlalwa ngabantu bethi uMoyo litshona. uJ.Z Moyo ngangithi liNdebele. in anycase sinabo abantu abangamatshona abakhulela esindebeleni siyabahlonipha futhi sebengamaNdebele ngoba isintu sesiNdebeleni baphila ngaso.

masingabavumeli labo abafuna ukusibonakalisa njengama tribalist. we are not. we are not racist. we are principled, and dignified. we hate the tshona for what he did, does to our nation. not because they are tshonas.asibafuni ngenhliziyo yonke. okulitshona nje noma kungahla kwelikaMthwakazi asikufuni. siyakwazi ukukubona futhi ukuthi lokhu kulengqondo yesitshoneni, ngokwenza kwakho. eg, manithi nikhuluma nje asithi ngemoto, uzozwa [ my fathers uncle has 3 of those big ones] nisathi nizwile kuvele umuntu mhlawumbe ozihawulelayo ethi ubona izinsizwa naye angatholathola, kuvele kugxume kona [hamba ra mudara, hamba we do nothi wanti peoplelu like you hhiye] ubone insizwa zibhekanemehlweni zinikina amakhanda. uzazibona zihlabana ngamehlo zihamba ngamunye ngamunye.ziyazi la eziyohlangana khona. yikho lokhu okungamatshona esingakufuniyo.

bona bahla kanjani nabantu abangabafuniyo. asiwafuni amatshona.
Posted by: makhokhoba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 04/28/08 09:50 PM

Tell i origine yabo Ngwenya muntuongenakudla.
Posted by: Mnewethu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 04/29/08 02:45 AM

KuleNtombi enhle engangiyihawukela eyayizibiza uMantshali ngubani ongabesazi ukuthi ngabakobani abakoMantshali kumbe abakoNtshali angisize bafowethu funa mhlawumbe ngihlangane layo ngikwazi ukuyitema kahle ingiqome. Sizani bo.
Posted by: cabucabu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 04/29/08 06:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Mnewethu
KuleNtombi enhle engangiyihawukela eyayizibiza uMantshali ngubani ongabesazi ukuthi ngabakobani abakoMantshali kumbe abakoNtshali angisize bafowethu funa mhlawumbe ngihlangane layo ngikwazi ukuyitema kahle ingiqome. Sizani bo.


The name is Mtshali. sharp
Posted by: mhla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 04/29/08 08:25 AM

Originally Posted By: cabucabu
Originally Posted By: Mnewethu
KuleNtombi enhle engangiyihawukela eyayizibiza uMantshali ngubani ongabesazi ukuthi ngabakobani abakoMantshali kumbe abakoNtshali angisize bafowethu funa mhlawumbe ngihlangane layo ngikwazi ukuyitema kahle ingiqome. Sizani bo.


The name is Mtshali. sharp


Abakwa Mtshali ngabakwa Hlabangani ndoda .
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 04/29/08 10:32 AM

oVilakazi bathakazelwa ngo Mphephethe, njalo umlandu wabo uncike kwabakwaHlabisa....
Posted by: Mnewethu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 04/29/08 05:23 PM

Ngiyabonga Mhla ezinye izithakazelo zabo ungabe uyazazi na? mfowethu, lokuthi inengi labo bakhele ngaphi kwelemandebeleni phela kulamalanga sihlangana kuboBulawayo center njalo omzukulu abasabuzwa ukuthi bavela ngaphi ekhaya bathi leso yis`bhare.
Posted by: Mahlab'ayithwale

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/05/08 04:26 PM

Quote:
Don't confuse issues here. Ndlovu is not even of Zulu origins. I covered this topic some time back ngabo 2004/2005.

Nonetheless, I'll take my time to re-explain. UNdlovu lona esimbona la kwelikaMthaniya (ie KwaZulu) ebizwa ngoGatsheni, boya benyathi, buya songwa buya sombuluka, Mthiyane etc, is not of Zulu origins. He is of Sotho extraction. Uqale engu Tlou or Motloung, kwase eba nguNdlovu ngokufuduka kwakhe engena KwelikaMthaniya. That's the Ndlovu loyo esimaziyo thina endlini yakwethu KwaZulu.

Be that as it may, indlovu yinyamazane egcwele yonk' indawo yase Afrika. As such, okuyi zizwana konkana kuthathe igama lale nyamazane, kwayenza isibongo sakho. To that extent kunabo Ndou KwaVenda (ngamaHole!), Ndlovu ebuKalanga (ngamaHole!), Zhou ebuShona, Njovu kumaZambezi (ngamaHole!), kunye nokunye okungoNdlovu enginge kuqede kwizizwana zonkana umhlaba ungaka! All these stripes of Ndlovus are not Gatsheni, Boya benyathi, Mthiyane! Never. They are not Zulu, were never Zulu & will never be. If they refer themselves as Gatsheni, bathukuthelisa izinyanya zakwaGatsheni. As such, bayowelwa ngumshipoti, umkhokha, ukhriphula webhadi! Mabakhonze izinyanya zakubo zangempela - sengisho amagidel' endlini ansondo!

Kunjalo nakuMpofu. OMpofu bakwaXhosa are not in any way having a common ancestor nabakwaMgodoyi. Never. AbakwaMgodoyi bazibiza oMpofu ngenyamazane, impofu, yet kwaXhosa bazibiza ngobumpofu, umbala wento (colour). It must be clear as well ukuthi oMpofu bakwaMgodoyi are of Shona extraction. Akekho umuntu wakwaMpofu kwaMgodoyi oqhamuke kwaNguni. The ones abangamaNdebele njengamanje, ngamaHole 9 9! They were assimilated ngokaMntungwa, ebathathe kubo ebuShona, baba ngamaHole!

Sengishilo mina wakwaNdonga, uShamase, inkwali yenkosi yangale, ngaphesheya koThukela. Ngeke ngashintsha ngikhefuze amanga ukuze ngithandeke emphakathini. Mina ngobheka phambili, ngime ngeqiniso kude kuyovalwa!

AbakwaXhosa bathi: ukuqala kobulumko, kukoyika uJehova. M'na ndohlala ndimoyika!



Kahleni bantu,kuvele kanti uzulu wayevele ubunjwa yizibongo ziphi,uzulu wayevele ebunjwa kangantu ababethunjwa njemva kokunqotshwa ngamabutho enkosi uTshaka however mina ngiyiNdlovu kodwa evele ingasilo ndebele or zulu,Thina siyiNdlovu yako Jinkila kumbe Majinkila,this totem has no ndebele meaning as our origin is middle eastern,through Zanzibar all the way to southern africa,i.e The Lemba,strongly related to the jews and it has been proven that the Lemba and Jewish Cohen share the same DNA,therefore all Lemba people in Zimbabwe have the same surname Ndlovu,Nzou,Zhou,Tlou,Ndou sokusiya ngokuthi bahlezi lobani lanxa bona belolimi lwabo which is not even in the Bantu circle,babesaziwa behlala eMazeya(eSanali)eFilabusi,but some were moved to by whites to Ngungumbane,some down south eVenda.

so this particular Ndlovu is not Ndebele or Zulu,follow the link and learn more about the Lemba.

The Black Jews Of Southern Africa

The Lemba

Vhalemba-The Lemba
Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/05/08 05:29 PM



Quote:
UNdlovu lona esimbona la kwelikaMthaniya (ie KwaZulu) ebizwa ngoGatsheni, boya benyathi, buya songwa buya sombuluka, Mthiyane etc, is not of Zulu origins. He is of Sotho extraction. Uqale engu Tlou or Motloung, kwase eba nguNdlovu ngokufuduka kwakhe engena KwelikaMthaniya. That's the Ndlovu loyo esimaziyo thina endlini yakwethu KwaZulu
.


I recently met a gentleman by the surname: Nsofu ( meaning Ndlovu/Elephant/Tlou/......) from Zambia who said this surname is so huge in his tribe as Ndlovu is in Zimbabwe.I think he said he is from a tribe called Bemba.
Posted by: Madlenya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/06/08 07:50 AM

BATHWALIBOPHAHLA
Kunjani mnumzane?, ngikulobele i private message angazi noma uyibonile?
Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/06/08 11:04 PM

Zikode
Ngisaphilile ,ngethemba kukulungele kanye nabakwakho. Kukhona okuncane okufanele ngikuqondise nge mininingwane ye e mail yami. Ngizazinika isikhathi, ungibekezelele.
Posted by: cabucabu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/07/08 04:45 AM

bafowethu, so what if they are Jew, so what, so let them go there, what is so amazing about sharing DNA with Cohen, what is a Cohen, Middle East just copied culture from Africa, circumcision was something described to Abraham, yet in Africa it is so ancient beyond antiquity, better to share DNA with us, what is so amazing, some blacks read a Bible and suddenly they think they are Jew, do they look semetic, but so what, why is the white man's bible holding your heart when they just copied us, Jewsish, Middle eastern culture was just a copy of Black Africa, I have given you an example of circumcision, Zulu's stopped circumcision 100 years ago or 200 years ago, the law of shaka, he needed young man to carry food for soldiers, and Mzilikazi just copied that. Jews fear blacks because they know blacks are better, stop trying or thinking they will ever like you, their Bible knows the original is black, so what if the Lemba share DNA with Coh4en, when Cohen knows the orginal is black and Cohen is doing everything to destroy blacks but blacks have done nothing to him.

So Ndlovu who is Cohen, how did he end up with that surname, lithandizintho, bull shit, you are Ndlovu, from Zulu land, fool.
Posted by: Mahlab'ayithwale

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/07/08 07:18 PM

You (MOFO) olungu Xakuxaku kumbe dzagudzagu

Originally Posted By: cabucabu
bafowethu, so what if they are Jew, so what, so let them go there, what is so amazing about sharing DNA with Cohen, what is a Cohen, Middle East just copied culture from Africa, circumcision was something described to Abraham, yet in Africa it is so ancient beyond antiquity, better to share DNA with us, what is so amazing, some blacks read a Bible and suddenly they think they are Jew, do they look semetic, but so what, why is the white man's bible holding your heart when they just copied us, Jewsish, Middle eastern culture was just a copy of Black Africa, I have given you an example of circumcision, Zulu's stopped circumcision 100 years ago or 200 years ago, the law of shaka, he needed young man to carry food for soldiers, and Mzilikazi just copied that. Jews fear blacks because they know blacks are better, stop trying or thinking they will ever like you, their Bible knows the original is black, so what if the Lemba share DNA with Coh4en, when Cohen knows the orginal is black and Cohen is doing everything to destroy blacks but blacks have done nothing to him.

So Ndlovu who is Cohen, how did he end up with that surname, lithandizintho, bull shit, you are Ndlovu, from Zulu land, fool.


Firstly that post wasent for you,secondly your mouth stinks with filth,i have been watching your posts,and all you do is insult people,kanti wodliwe lezinja yini ezidlala ngokulumana,i am what i am and what you idiot say is not gonna change what i am,kanti uvele wena uvela ebutshabi uzophambanisa abantu izintweni zabo,mina ufike kahle,so from now,its me and you,cat and mouse,wherever you are fool,kawuhloniphi njalo ubuntu kawulabo,othandizinto nguwe wena,ophongufohla njengomsuzo,die slow mpukane!!!
Posted by: Madlenya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/07/08 10:03 PM

Quote:
INVELAPHI YEZIBONGO:ngicela ukukhanyiselwa ngesibongo sako BHEBHE.Ebujaheni bami ngike ngaphila lentombi yakoBhebhe. Ekuceleni kwami izibongo zayo yazitema ngokuthi ngeyako MaZiwa yiNkosi(isangelo sokuqala), ma iqhubeka inhlanvu zolimi zaguquka zaba yisiLozwi angisazange nginelise ukuzibamba .Ma ngiyibuza ukuthi kambe uBhebhe uhlangana njani lesiLozwi yathi yona:UBhebhe uqakathekile kakhulu esizweni sika Mthwakazi ngoba ekufikeni kweNkosi uMzilikazi kwele Nkosi uMmambo,abeLozwi besebezwile ngobungwazi bakhe,njalo babebesaba.


Ngokwazi kwami abantu bakwaBhebhe ngaMakhalanga, yikho uthola ukuthi izithakazelo zabo zileSiLozwi phakathi:
Bhebhe
Tumbale
Tshulutshomaba
Tshulutshamandemandi
Nzinda

igama elithi Bhebhe ngizwa kuthiwa lisho ukhomane.
Tshulutshamandemandi lokhu kuthiwa kuchaza ukuthi isiduli esinamabele amaningi. nginezihlobo zakoBhebhe, ngithe uma ngibuza banginikeza lokhu, kodwa leli igama elide i am not sure noma ngilizwe kahle, bazasiza abanye.
Posted by: mbaleki

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/08/08 09:00 AM

Nanzi Izibongo lezithakazelo zazo,my research method is a bit unreliable so please,sizani li-correcte oku wrong,lawa engiwafake i*,i believe they are khalanga,but then again im no expert

Ndlovu(not Ndhlovu)-Gatsheni/Mthombeni
Ncube-Mazilankatha/Zikhali
Dube-Mthembo
Nyathi-Mdluli
Ngwenya-Sitshela/Mokoena
Mlotshwa-Mazibuko
Mnkandla-Malinga/Khabo
Masuku-Zikode/Mulondo
Mlilo-Matshisa
Mathuthu-Ndlela
*Mpofu-Shaba
*Nkomo-Lajane
Mabhena-Mntungwa
Khumalo-Ndlangamandla
Tshabalala-Mshengu
Sibanda-Dawu
Tshuma-Golide/Maunga
Posted by: cabucabu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/08/08 02:32 PM

Okay son of Moses, you have such an inferiority complex, son of Moses my foot. BS.
Posted by: duze

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/08/08 08:15 PM

cabucabu ngempelangempela wena wabunjwa kanjani? waze wahluka bo wemfo. ukubuza ngezibongo zakwenu kukucasula ngani? lomfo obhale ngokuhlobana nama Jews woneni kuwe? akakuthukanga. akakumemanga ukuthi ufunde istory sakhe. pho uhlushwe yini? ungaze umthukele ukuthi wenze i study ngezibongo? awuphilanga kahle mfo.

ukhombisa ubutshona impela. bheka nje umgabe wenu. how can you axplain that situation. its only abantu abafana nawe namatshona akini who understand the logic of the situation. with so much suffering. the country has no money, you have been beaten on parliamentary AND the presidential, but you still want another ellection. you think nothing of the suffering masses. tyipical shona mentality. where is the money going to come from? easy, just buy ink and paper and print money. shame on the tshona.

so cabucabu mfo abakini bale kuleliyazwe eliqalekisiweyo baya murana luthuli esozbele. umkhobo udla ekhaya nankoke . akungijabulisi ukubona abantu abamsulwa bebulawa even kungamatshona kodwa phela sanitshela ngalo mgabe wenu nathini nina matshona? nathini? nathi masibulawe angithi. sokungakini manje mfo.
Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/08/08 11:14 PM


Unjani Mbaleki.Inhle kakhulu i research yakho iyasifundisa thina abanye esimane sixhamande kulenzinsuku ngenxa yokulahlekelwa yiheritage yethu eyokubongana.Uthi umuntu ekwenzele into enhle uzwe sesithi 'inkosi ibusise'kube kuphelile.Ucina sowungasazi ukuthi ngabe kubongwa bani lapha.Pho masesixhamanda sisezenje abantwana bethu sizobathsiyela ini.

About umsebenzi wakho ngithi nga uyamakwa ipass mark ulayo sibili ngoba ngobunengi bazo uqondile.Akusizame phela ngokuzidobha one by one besewelula kancane eg EDube, eMthembo, eyathithini yathithini ........Kubemnandi njengayizolo sisakhile!

Kukhona lapha engicabanga ukuthi kusuke kwaminyana:
Ncube/Zikhali
Mkandla-Malinga(yebo uMkandla nguKhabo)
UNdlovu -ungikhumbuza the late umakhelwane ugogo u Mamthombeni.Silabo efamilini oNdlovu abangayisibo oMthombeni.Ungelula lezi mhlawumbe kungacaca ukuthi izitemo lezo zixhumana njani lezibongo




Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/08/08 11:26 PM




Mlondo, siyabonga ngokusikhanyisela ngalo u MaTshulutshomaba wami. Wayengulanga phuma sikothe ngifunga aMatshetshe!
Posted by: mbaleki

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/09/08 10:52 AM

Bathwa,how i wish i could expand,kodwa nginethemba uyake uzwe abano lwazi ma bethi,"little knowledge is very dangerous",which is exactly what i have,little knowledge,kodwa im sure ngokuya sizothola abanolwazi olungcono,ikanti nami ngizo-reseacher ngisiya phambili,nanzi ezinye ebesengizilibele

Nkala-Maphosa
Luphahla-Luthuli
Nyoni-Tshelela
Mkhize-Khaba
Ndiweni-Mkheswa
Gumede-Sokhela
Posted by: cabucabu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/09/08 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By: duze
cabucabu ngempelangempela wena wabunjwa kanjani? waze wahluka bo wemfo. ukubuza ngezibongo zakwenu kukucasula ngani? lomfo obhale ngokuhlobana nama Jews woneni kuwe? akakuthukanga. akakumemanga ukuthi ufunde istory sakhe. pho uhlushwe yini? ungaze umthukele ukuthi wenze i study ngezibongo? awuphilanga kahle mfo.

ukhombisa ubutshona impela. bheka nje umgabe wenu. how can you axplain that situation. its only abantu abafana nawe namatshona akini who understand the logic of the situation. with so much suffering. the country has no money, you have been beaten on parliamentary AND the presidential, but you still want another ellection. you think nothing of the suffering masses. tyipical shona mentality. where is the money going to come from? easy, just buy ink and paper and print money. shame on the tshona.

so cabucabu mfo abakini bale kuleliyazwe eliqalekisiweyo baya murana luthuli esozbele. umkhobo udla ekhaya nankoke . akungijabulisi ukubona abantu abamsulwa bebulawa even kungamatshona kodwa phela sanitshela ngalo mgabe wenu nathini nina matshona? nathini? nathi masibulawe angithi. sokungakini manje mfo.


You say Shona, hmmm, well now if you are not man enough the money for running the elections will come from printing, we will just print more money because you, you who calls yourself Mthwakazi have become gutless, now you will reside in the filth we have created, more money we shall print, after all what is money but paper.

You who calls yourself Mthwakazi, built by a formidable human, or should I say a formidable Muntu. Yes wena Muntu, Mthwakazi the ancient. That is after all what your name suggests, the Mthwakazi, more ancient than the Thwa, the Thwa of course being what the colonisers called Bushman, their real name being Thwa. After all you sprand from the mind of a Nguni, Nguni meaning of old stock, yes Nguni, you must be a Nguni.

So you of old stock, you of the ancient, you Mthwakazi why do you not guide me a Shona, after all I was nameless until you named me, you named me a Shona, like a God you named the nameless, I was not a Shona until your arrival, I was just another person with no name, even my language had no name, now my language is Shona. What can I ever understand of this world next to my namer.

You who walked with Mzilikazi, a child of the very spirit, for surely no man could have done what he did without the spirit as an ally, what, 300 Khumalo's left Shaka, yet within 20 years able to stand up to Dingaan and defeat him, were it not for Boers, you would have been masters of the Zulu, master of heaven. Now you sulk, only your pride keeps you alife, pride and anger, you can not even tell us how we should fix our Zimbabwe, because now you are trapped in the State created by whites solely to keep you in check.

When Mzilikazi arrived at Mambo's, umkhemetswane fell from the trees, and Mambo said it is you the ancestors spock of who will come, you shall protect us, and we shall teach you the way of the spirit. Mambo who anointed you and said doo not move anymore here eat, drink and exist.

Mambo, there you found your high priest but today you reject your high priest claiming to love some form of Christianity or this and that, what has Christianity ever done for you, you have lost your zest. Now when man talk you say their mouths are filled with filth because the truth hurts.

Mzilikazi, the priests of the Baralong told the baralong support Mzilikazi or you shall be slaves to the Boer, but no, they chose the white man and indeed became slaves, and today the priests of the Baralong no longer exist.

Tell me you of Mzilikazi, Mthwakazi, a name suggesting existence before time, when time was still and we wondered in caves, you of the greatest nation on earth, you who the colonisers promised you shall all be extinct, and they found Mugabe their puppet to do it for them. My kindred Shona brethren according to Duze. Well he did not understand, yes we print money because our namer has refused to stand. We shall print money and you shall suffer with us, you who claim so great a name, so ancient a name as Mthwakazi, a name meaning simply in old language, Men. Do you know what a man is. A man can not be careless, only women and children can be careless. That is a man. As somebody says, who have to try, those who do not try will always be nothing. You refuse to try, now we shall print money, you Mthwakazi, you mem, you have been careless, ci ci ci, shame. Now we will rule you, you were careless in 1979, you are careless in 2008, we will bring our people from Mbare to work in Bulawayo, and make ske sure you have no work. Not only that when we are lost and have no way out, we will print money, what else can we do, who will stop us, Shona mentallity, maybe so, but we are the rulers therefore when we are stuck to keep our rule we will look for any menas, print money. We told you in 1979, we will only respect our Rule, ZANU DIROBA. Your blood if neccessary, namer, you who named us.

Mthwakazi, men, when men are careless, you envy each other, but you cry you are falling apart, who told you not to help each other, instead you want to show off to each other. Mzilikazi a son of the spirit, go back to Njelele, you must exist in the past to make the future meaningfull. Hmmm. Liyadedesa, or should I say liya tetema. Hahaha. We will rule you, bring you down to our level, take the easy way out. Mthwakazi, Duze, Ndoda, be reasonable. Don't be like a child, and in a maddening situation do not be sane, go crazy, bring fire, be a Mthwakazi, be a man.

From Moses, hmmm, it remains BS, you are from the stars. fool, you reject yourself because you are feeling down, want something great you are great. Go to Njelele and maybe one more time they will send another for the times that you exist in. Shame, So when did you leave Israel, why come down here, when, 300 of you built something bigger than anybody in Southern Africa, never in history have 300 done so much, are you really defeated. Look deep inside.

From Moses. BS, lots of BS, nonsense.

You start hallucinating you give us time to print money.
Posted by: bongani

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/09/08 04:38 PM

kanti wena Xabuxabu, amagundwane asephelile yini, usuzosisuzela lapha. Buyela emhondoro uyegola imbeba , utshiyane lathi we tswina . Vele isibongo sakho sithini ngoba ithophikhi ithi "origins yezibongo"? angazi kumbe ukhona yini lapho okwazi indabuko yezibongo zabetshabe???
Posted by: bongani

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/09/08 04:47 PM

Xabuxabu, kanti amagundwane asephelile yini? buyela kwelakini emaswinaland uyogola imbeba! kanti vele isibongo sakho sithini? angazi kumbe ukhona lapho oyaziyo indabuko yezibongo zabetshabe!!
Posted by: cabucabu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/09/08 06:30 PM

that is right the topic, there is no origin yezibongo from the Middle East, no Ndlovu that is for sure. Isibongo, my surname is Panitshi. Cabucabu Panitshi as a surname is not my tribes name. My surname is my fathers firsty name I am Cabucabu kaPanitshi, and who are you.
Posted by: duze

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/11/08 06:51 PM

cabucabu panitshi. kunjani? cha kuyezwakala lokhu okushoyo mfo. isibongo sakho ligama likayihlo? ingane yakho isibongo sayo sizoba ngucabucabu, nee? angeke ngiphicane nakho lokhu angithi lisiko lakini. kodwa phela thina singuMthwakazi izibongo zethu azitshintshi. ubaba ngu Gumede ngesibongo. nami ngingu Gumede ngesibongo. ingane yami inguGumede ngesibongo. umkhulu, nomkhulu kamkhulu nguGumede asitshintshi.

ngoba nina nithatha amagama abobaba benu niwenze izibongo , lokho akunenzi nishadane nezihlobo zenu? thina asimshadi uGumede. noma ungakaze umbone ungamazi imvelaphi yakhe as long enguGumede asimshadi.kungenzeka ukuthi yikho nje kunabantu abaningi kangaka abesitshoneni abagogekileyo yikushadana niyizihlobo. they are so many disabled tshona people thrown away by your ralatives to beg in the street corners one wonders why.

kwenziwa yini ngempela kube nabantu abaningi kangaka abesitshoneni aba disabled? niyaganana nama blood relatives ngoba kulula ukulahlekelwa yi line of ancestry.

as for saying you print money as you like bacause money is paper. shame. i did not think you was so shallow. it is more complex than that.you cant just print.

anywere salakahle lendaba yezibongo ungayithatheli phansi. ingaxazulula okuningi.

Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/11/08 09:52 PM

Mbaleki
Qhubeka muntu wakithi, abadala bathi umfula ugcwaliswa yizifula lezifudlane. Lokho okubhalayo kungezelela ulwazi esiluswelayo kakhulu.
Akutsho phela ngo:
Mlilo
Mafu
Dlamini
Mdlongwa ; ngabe sande ngaphi, ngisikhumbula kwenye yezincwadi ezimnandi zika NS Sigogo
Posted by: Mthakathi27

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/12/08 07:23 AM

Originally Posted By: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA
Mbaleki
Qhubeka muntu wakithi, abadala bathi umfula ugcwaliswa yizifula lezifudlane. Lokho okubhalayo kungezelela ulwazi esiluswelayo kakhulu.
Akutsho phela ngo:
Mlilo
Mafu: Nkonjeni
Dlamini
Mdlongwa ; ngabe sande ngaphi, ngisikhumbula kwenye yezincwadi ezimnandi zika NS Sigogo: Siyatholakala eFilabusi.
Posted by: mbaleki

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/12/08 09:40 AM

Hatshi Bakwthu nizongixolela,uMdlongwa kungathi kuzomele sibuze abadala,kodwa lezi ezinye,as far as i know zihambo so

Mafu-uNkonjeni umatayi,okonkozela njenge nqina(i cant remember ukuthi phambili kuthwani)
Mlilo-Matshisa
Mkhwananzi-Ngwane,Gagisa
Sangweni-Hlongwane
Dlamini-Mlangeni

Incwadi ka Ndabezinhle Sigogo is there any way that we can order it on line yini?

Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/12/08 08:33 PM


Zihlobo
Uyabongeka kakhulu lumsebenzi.Nami ngiyafisa ukuthola izincwadi zesintu ezinjengalezo zabo NS Sigogo.Ololwazi kancede.

Lami wothi kengilitshaye kancane ngesisodwa engisaziyo:

Ngulube-utenywa ngoMakwayiba ,sekumnyama ke kimi ukuthi kuthiwani phambili, khepha engikwaziyo yikuthi ngamaNdebele adabuka ebuSutho (engingathi ngamaPedi).Bayayizila i phokhu laba abafani labo ratanama bakoNkomo engibaziyo abathanda i bhifu. Kufanele bayeke ukudla i bhifu ngoba azokhumuka aphele wonke amazinyo abo.
Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/12/08 11:05 PM


Haa haa namhlanje udwayi udobhe ingqongqo !


Izibongo zakoGasa (amaTshangana akithi):

Sithole-Gabhiza
Mhlanga- Gasela
Hlongwane-
Hlatshwayo-
Dliwayo-

UMhlanga uthandwa ngamadlozi amakhulu okuthiwa yinjuza, ahlala emanzini. Uqhaphele ke ma indodana yakho iletha uMaGasela ekhaya lakho, uzogcina engasayazi ingoma yakhe.

Intombi zakoHlatshwayo ngophumalanga sikothe. Odade lobunyanga ungathi bukhona bebahle benjalo.

Lababantu bako Gasa balamabizo lezibongo zesiNguni kodwa ulimi lwabo kwelakithi luthanda ukuncika ezindimini zasempumalanga ezinjengesiNdawu.

UMlilo laye ngiyamnuka mani, sengathi uphuma kulendlu kaSoshangane. Uzitema ngoMabaso.Ngabe kazitemi ngoKhoza yini ? ngoba ngesiNdebele silokuthi ikhoza lomlilo liyatshisa.




Posted by: Mthakathi27

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/13/08 08:03 AM

Ndlovu>>>> Makhalima
Baloyi....????
Posted by: Muziesta

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/20/08 03:26 PM

Sanibonani
I just join Inkundla from research that I'm doing I'm in a path of discovering my roots.
Would you help me with my Surname
I belive that I'm Zulu
My Surname is Skhosana and izithakazelo zami

Untuthu yashunqa emhlangeni osilima ngamahashi inkomo ziphelile
uDumisa uMhlhanga am I Zulu
Posted by: lvovo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/20/08 04:26 PM

Kunjani Muziesta?

Just a test yokuthi ngibone ukuthi ungum'Zulu na?

Indololwane yini ngesiZulu?
Imbuzi yona ithwa yini ngesiZulu??

Ngiyazi ufike kahle, uzakuthola okudingayo mnumzane/dade, kuyajabulisa ukuthola abantu abafisa ukuxoxisana nathi la esigungwini.
Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/20/08 11:31 PM


Welcome kakhulu Muziesta

U Skhosana liNdrebele lasekhethu elidla umratha (isitshwala).You are Southern Ndebele as opposed to thina abakaMzilikazi ama Notherners. Your surname is concentrated ku peri urban yasePretoria on the eastern side in what was called kwaNdebele homeland pre 94 Ngamanye amazwi hamba uyethungatha isibongo sakho ema eriyeni aKwamhlanga, Siyabuswa ,Vaalbank or Bronchospruit( amaNdrebele bayibiza iBrongoro),Witbank(eMalahleni) lakwezinye indawana zase today Mpumalanga.Sigcwele lesisibongo kakhulu njalo silobukhosi obudlelana lo Ndala lo Mahlangu.

Lababantu inkosi yabo endala ngu Nzunza , umhlaba wabo abawusebenzisayo manje bawuthathela abeSuthu(Pedi) bencediswa ngamaBhunu.I Bhunu loSkhosana ngamathe lolimi, uthola ogogo bakhona besikhipha ngamakhala isiBhunu bengamazi usubA.Today babuswa yinkosi ephuma endlini yakoMahlangu.Ogogo bakhona badume ngokugudula izindlu zabo ngemibala egqamile, babumbe izimbiza zemibalabala njalo bahlala bembathe ingubo/amajali akhalafulu khona kutshisa bhe.Even icool drink baphuza ofanta laborasberry badle ngojemi obonvu.Ujemi lo udliwa kakhulu esikweni labo lokuthombisa(girl initiation) kumbe ngithi equdeni(pronounced as ecudeni).
Bakhonza uZimu( God through acenstors) njalo bale pilgrim yabo okuyiwa every year okuthiwa ku SeHolweni.Lolu lubhalu kumbe it represnts izimbalu lapha aba sala becatshe khona ngobugwala thina sithubeleza sisilwa lamaBhunu silubhekise eNorth kwelika Mmambo ngesikhathi sibalekela UTshaka. Bezwana lamaBhunu nje yi benyulwa eHolweni yiwo lamaBhunu.

Ngabe uthungatha abantu bakini nje usokiwe ngoba that is an intergral part kaSkhosana, kuyayiwa entabeni muntuwakithi and basika iforeskin yakho le ubheke ngamehlo ka see kungela anaesthesia kadoktha. Ngingasatsho amakhaza lokuhlukumezeka eguswini elibandayo uhalf naked ebusika foro inyanga yonke utreynwa ubudoda.
Ngabe uzokumela lokhu Sikhosana? Zihlalele phansi ngoba ma ulengisa iforeskini you are not accepted as a man.Ngethemba ngikukhanyisele ngenvelaphi kaSkhosana
Posted by: Muziesta

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/21/08 06:49 AM

Sawubona mfowethu mina nginguZulu
uchaza ukuthini uma uthi yini indololwane ngesiZulu ngoba isiZulu leso kodwa ngoba Ngasincela isiZulu ngizokutshela ngolimi luka George indololwane it's an elbow nembuzi its a goat tell me uyazazi yini ibongo zakwa Dumisa
Posted by: Muziesta

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/21/08 06:53 AM

I hear but I was not born in Mpumalanga I was born in the Free State a town called Reitz and my Father told me that okhokho bethu babuya entabeni zokhahlmba Drakensburg, as you could see izithakazelo zami azifani noSkhosana bamaNdebele angizibizi ngoJali,Thamana or uNanasi, I have worked at Mpumalanga and I allways maintained to other Skhosana that I'm not Ndebele
hayi msakhethu angilona iNdebele
Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/21/08 11:10 PM

Quote:
I was born in the Free State a town called Reitz and my Father told me that okhokho bethu babuya entabeni zokhahlmba Drakensburg,


Hayike :i Origins yezibongo is not necessarily i Issues or places of birth of individuals. For example l have a brother in law owakoSkhosana abadabuka kwelikaMzimuni and he has never set his foot in SA. Ugreatgrandpa wakhe nguye owafika eqhuba inqola zabefundisi zidonswa zinkabi ngama eli 1900s wagcina esakhela lapho bevela eSA.Basicaly uSkhosana is not confined BUT concentrated eMpumalanga and Tshwane.Meaning he can be found in any province of SA such as FreeState, KZN , eGauteng and beyond borders.I 'Origins yezibongo is under G'.As explained b4 the present place yakwaNdelele is originally for Pedis kanti wona ayevelaphi amaNdebele? Obviously ku present KZN.

Kulengoma yesintu engiyithandayo ehlatshelwa kakhulu ngulowo osendle amanzi aponjwana ethi: 'Umtwanna waziwa ngu....'
Abavumayo bathi: 'Ngiyamazi ubaba'. Isifundo kulelihubo yikuthi some issues are best asked from kwabakuzalayo.
Posted by: uzphoso

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/21/08 11:44 PM

Ngicela ololwazi ngezibongo lomdabuko waboGwizi, Nkiwane, Mguquka, Mlalazi, Ndlela in Zimbabwe ancede.
Ngilolwazanyana ngobudlelwano lamaKaranga kwamalunga amanye ezibongo lezi kweleMidlands (Kwekwe, Gwelo) kodwa bengidinga olokugqizelela lokucaca okuncono.
Posted by: Muziesta

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/22/08 06:58 AM

Totaly agree origins is not only base on place birth that is why in my response I refered to izithakazelo zami engakhula ngizazi, and also i believe that a place of birth really is imperative to see the origin of the surname,sometimes it helps to trace your roots like Mzilikazi we all know he was from the KZN, we need to identify also with a place of birth, by not doing that we might end up calling all the Whites African where else their not
Posted by: mbaleki

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/22/08 07:39 AM

Zphoso
i-knowledge yami incane kodwa i hope it will sed a glimmer of light,o only knowmukuthi abantu bako ndlela ngoMathuthu,and uNkiwane nguMthunzi,the other ones angikho sure ngazo kodwa i have always associated uMlalazi lama nyasaranda
Posted by: uzphoso

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/22/08 01:45 PM

Thaa Mbaleki ngalokho okuncane okweneliseyo, abanye abalokunye bazasiza labo.
Ngifuna ukubuza njalo ngesibongo sakoMabandla nxa ekhona okwazi ngalabo bantu.Ngiyabonga.
Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/22/08 11:27 PM

Quote:
i Origins yezibongo is not necessarily i Issues or places of birth of individuals.



Quote:
'Origins yezibongo is under G'.
I

Unjani Muziesta.
Uyangijabulisa umfutho olawo ngokufuna invelaphi yakini.Uyindoda impela.Kubaluleke kakhulu ukwazi lapho esivela khona. Njalo ngivumelana lawe kulast posting yakho. I believe in helping people to help themselves which was the essence of my previous posting.If you take time ukuyicubungula ikunika 2 major facets of approaching your social reasearch.:
iparagraph 1 ikubonisa a general/global approach which shows ukuthi a
Quote:
group
of people are settled in such a place, when and for what reason.

iparagraph 2 ikubonisa ukuthi you can still approach your research by asking abazali and relatives (specific issues). Trace your relatives eg those who once drobed in when you had family ceremonies like umshado or umngcwabo .In their abscence ask abangane babazali.Those people may be carrying a minefield of information and even family secreats like your very own conception. Hence the powerful song that l suspect awuyazi: Umtwana waziwa ngu.... ,Ngikhumbula umnuzane othile oyakathi esebudlile emajukujukwini eLondon ayihlabele lathi simqakezele eseqothula phansi eshaya indlamu, abesejika athi,' Even if you didnt tell me 'sivunyiswe ngelika 'I know my father !'.Ma eseyitshaye waze wadilika ngezinqe besesimbuza ukuthi kanti ngabe sekutheni eseguqula lelihubo lesintu, athi utolikela lalaba abelungu asebembukele.

These two approaches(general and specific one), may complement each other ngokunjalo ,compile and compare notes.

Points of reference ye migration are the chronology of time(periods eg 1800s, 1900s or 1940s) and events.
.funa ukuthi when did your people arrive lapho abakhele khona.
.babexotshwa yini kumbe babehugwa yini eg ukuxotshwa ngamabhunu eseqhelisa amapulazi,ukufuna imisebenzi,izimiyini ,umfecane,ukuntula nje(nomadic life),imibango yemindeni etc.
Good luck Bhudi omkhulu,besewungichathekela ngohambo lwakho oluhle.


Posted by: Muziesta

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/23/08 06:59 AM

Ngiyaluzwa iphuzu lwakho and I have done that because Mhlanga was not Ndebele when he left KZN because his Father Mafana left the Zulu kingdom to start his own powerfull nation even Musi was not Ndebele yet then NDebele as a Language has mixture of Pedi and Afrikaans so you see it started when Nzuza and Manala son's of Musi mix with other tribes, and Ndebele comes from Sotho and Tswana calling the guys who has left the Nguni brothers calling them Matebela meaning tho who chase people away because they were also being chased bt these Nguni's

Kodwa ngiyabonga nge advice ngiya kuthiwa umtwana waziwa ngunina which means a chils is known by the mother
Posted by: Sihlisizwe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/23/08 11:52 AM

MINA NGINGU MHAYISE,UNGWANYA,USIYENDANA, UCEBISA, UGID'GOGWENI OVALA EMNYANGO NGAMAKHANDA AMADODA- u HLATSHWAYO.
INKABA YAMI IKWA NONGOMA KWELIKA MTHANIYA. IMVELAPHI YABAKWA HLATSHWAYO IKWELAKWA NGWANE (ESWAZINI). NGITHANDA UKUTHI ONOLWAZI OLUTHE UKUJULA NGESIZWE SAKITHI ANGELEKELELE NJENGOBA NGIZAMA UKUTHUNGATHA UMLANDO NJENGOBA UNJALO. KUNO HLATSHWAYO ESWAZINI,KWAMTHANIYA,KWAMTHWAKAZI,ETC INGABE SINGABENDLU EYODWA YINI? AMASHANGANE AKWAHLATSHWAYO BANEZITHAKAZELO EZITHI AZEHLUKE
KWEZAMI, INGABE KUKHONA UKUHLOBANA NA?
Posted by: Imbokodo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/28/08 03:06 PM

Ngiyalibingelela bakithi,zihlobo labangane.
Ngeseng'kufunde kulenkundla ,ngiyathemba lingakwazi ukungisiza.
Njengabedlule ngaphambili kwami , lami ngidingisisa izibongo zami.
Okwazi izibongo zakoBaloyi(Nothern Ndebele)kasiz'umntwana osegangeni ongafun'ukulahleka,ongafun'abazeleyo balahleke,ongafun'isizwe silahleke

Ngiyabonga
Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/28/08 10:36 PM



IMBOKODO

Welcome kakhulu bhudi omkhulu

Kuyajabulisa ukuzwa ukuthi isizwe sikaMthwakazi simabalabala kanje.l zangelo zakini Baloyi angiziqondisisi kahle kodwa into engingayitsho yikuthi uBaloyi nguGasa, impi kaSoshongana; vuma wothi Ye! UBaloyi uphuma kanenengi eGiyane ( Limpopo) kodwa abanye basuka bathanda indawo yaseHammanskraal- ngenye yezindawo ochaphakele khona eMzansi.Ngingajabula nami mangingezwa ngokunengi ngale indlu yakoBaloyi abangama Northern Ndebeles .Ngike ngaya emicimbini yenu.Into engingaphinde ngiyitsho yikuthi indlu yakhona ithanda ukudlelana kakhulu leyako Maluleke/Maluleka.

Ngethemba abanye bazosichasisela lokho abakwaziyo ngoBaloyi.

Ngiphinde ngibonge muntu wakithi.
Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/28/08 11:02 PM


Sihlisizwe

Hayi ke wakanye wazibiza ezakini kwaze kwabamnandi. Kantilaselivala unyango ngamakhanda amadoda kwasekutheni? Ngabe izicabha beseziphelile kumbe nje beseliqome ukuvala ngamatrophy wenu obungwazi ligabisela thina amavaka.

Ngendlela ochaza ngayo kuyasho ukuthi uHlatshwayo lo umkhulu njalo uqhelile. KwelikaMthwakazi u Hlatshwayo ngimazi ngentombi zakhona ezinhle-nhle njalo ezilobungoma bona obasezansi. Uthi ungaya for consultation ugcine ungasezwanga indaba zakho sewugxoza indenda uzibhekele lo u 'Makhosi' weShangane.
Posted by: Imbokodo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/29/08 11:36 AM

BATHWALIBOPHAHLA Ngiyabonga bhudi
Uhambe kahle-ke lapho ,lami ngiyazi ukuba nginguGasa,kangazisisi kahle kahle,kodwa ngithola angathi kulobuNdwandwe nxa sibheka emuva.Uyitshay'ekhaleni nxa uthi eGiyane, in our more recent history -about 3 generations back,ngizwa kuthiwa kwasuka ubhudi lodadewabo kuleyondawo ,belubhekise eZimbabwe.Bobabili yibo abaqala indlu yakithi.Ngizaqhubeka ngidingisisa.Ngizokuchathekela engizokuthola .
Obongayo yimi udadewenu bhudi
Posted by: Imbokodo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/29/08 04:04 PM

amazing what you can fnd out once you start looking,
I've found out a bit about izangelo zami so far :
eBaloyi,eDubazi,eMathebula,eGwalakhulu eMzilakawulondwa, owulondayo uyazibambelela
Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/29/08 11:39 PM


Imbokodo

Nanzoke Gasa omkhulu.

Mayihloooooooooome Baloyi!!!!
Posted by: cabucabu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/30/08 02:09 AM

okwaziyo what about laba
Hlatshwayo
Jele
Xaba
Gumbi
Ncwangeni

I know uSoshangane nguJele or Nxumalo I'm not sure, yikho ngibuza
Posted by: Sihlisizwe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/30/08 11:43 AM

Bandl'liphakathi! Nina bakaMjokwane KaNdaba, Nina baka Dlungwane, iLembe eleqa amanye ngokukhalipha! Ngithi nami akengiphonse esivivaneni.
USoshangane udabuka kwelikaMthaniya impela. Umlando uveza ukuthi wayengenye yezinduna zikaZwide kaLanga ngenkathi iLembe liguqisa
abakwaNdwandwe(Nxumalo) okwesibili. Yilapho amandla kaZwide athenwa khona unomphela nakuba indodana yakhe yazama ukubuyisa izinduku ngokuhamba kwesikhathi. U Soshangane waqoqa insali yamabutho ayengaphansi kwakhe washaya wachitha kwaZulu.
Wayevela esizweni sakwaJele (Jele clanlet) ngaphansi kukaZwide.
O Xaba bango Nonkosi,oMashwabada abashwabadela inkomo nezimpondo
zayo. AmaHlubi athi oXaba isizwe esaqoqwa yiwona ngakho kumelwe amakhosi akhona akhonze ebukhosini bakhona. Ngisabhekene nengwadla yokuthola ulwazi ngoHlatshwayo(uMhayise, uNgwanya, uSiyendana, uCebisa!)
Posted by: Sihlisizwe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/30/08 11:52 AM

BATHWALIBOPHAHLA
Izintombi ezinhle zibuzwa lapha kithi. Odadewethu bahle inqaba! Insizwa ibabuka kuhlengezele izinyembezi, ulimi lugcwale umlomo, ome amathe emlonyeni kusangane ingqondo! Ezinye izithakazelo zakithi (kwaMthaniya) zith "Owathi uthatha abafazi ababi wathatha abahle bodwa, unkomo ziningi amashongololo, owaHayisela uMswazi emgedeni" Yingakho uzalo lwakithi luluhle ngalendlela!
Posted by: Imbokodo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/30/08 10:49 PM

Ekuqhubekeni kwami ngidingisisa isibongo sami sengifike empambanamgwaqweni.Ngokutsho kweziny'izazi,oBaloyi ngamaTshangane kaSoshangane.Baqoqwa nguSoshangane ekufikeni kwakhe eMozambique(Delagoa Bay)ebathola bengabanye balabo ababe hleli lapho.Ukutshona kwakhe (1858) kwaqala umbangamandla phakathi kwabantwa'bakhe uMzila lo Mawewe.Lokhu kwasidabula phakathi isizwe sakoGasa ,abakaMawewe(Nguni-Shangane) baya eMaswatini(Swaziland),abakaMzila (Tsonga-Shangane )basala-ke kwa Gasa(Limpopo Valley included in that territory) ngithole njalo this excerpt apparently from local oral tradition:

"Bukhosi ba ka Mawewe bu dzabuka kwaZulu … buya eMozambique nguSoshangane … Kutsi uma kutfolakala kutsi uSoshangane ushonile kwa se ku suka impi ku Mzila na Mawewe, se ba banga bukhosi … Mawewe u bese u ya suka utowakha ku le live".116

Now,mina indlu yakithi siyakwazi ukubizwa"Mzila".all along , ngangithi kusukelaku"Mzilakawulondwa"and lamanje,mhlawumbe kusukela khona.Kodwa ngalokhu esengikutholile , mhlawumbe kusukela kulowo Mzila kaSoshangane.Njalo,by our history ,the turn of the 19th century (ubabomkhulu,born 1901)which would tie in with the migrations caused by the Luzo-gaza wars of the late 1800s.This is one side of the possible story.Abanye bathi oBaloyi (orValoyi)were Lozwi ,that they never became part of soShangane's people , they refused to help him to fight off Zwangendaba and fled instead to Transvaal.
Bakithi , liyayibona-ke inkinga yami ?
Posted by: uzphoso

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/31/08 09:22 AM

Ngithanda nje ukuncoma ubuscholar bakho ngesizwe sakini njalo ngikududuze ekudingisiseni kwakho ulwazi ngaso ngoba noma endulo ukuthola lolu lwazi kwakungalula njalo kulokucina, kugcwele iziphosiso zalabo ababelazo imbali zakhona.Buye njalo kwakusiya ngefavour ukuthi kutshelwa bani njalo lupi ulwazi, lwonke yini kumbe hatshi.
Ungazithwalisi nzima nxa usufike ekucineni kwomlondo munye ngoba lokhu okulutshwane okwaziyo, nxa uqinisekile ngakho, kulakho ukubumba ukuziqhenya ngokwazi umnombo wakini noma lolo lwazi lungaphelelanga.Kufana ngokuthi soze umuntu azi UNkulunkulu okupheleleyo.Kumele sithokoze ukuthi yinto esijabulisayo ukucubungula lokuhlaziya imvelaphi zethu, into esingayenza impilo yethu yonke nxa kuvuma.Ngikufisela ufumane okunye okunengi ngesizwe sakini.
Posted by: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/31/08 11:42 AM


Quote:
Bakithi , liyayibona-ke inkinga yami ?


Imbokodo

I must say inkinga yakho is very very interesing. I am not a saddist but the irony is that I enjoy the way olanda ngayo umzila wakoBaloyi. Ma ulesikhathi uqhubeke uthungatha lu Mzila wakini and keep us posted ; kujabula thina.
Posted by: Imbokodo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/31/08 12:17 PM


Ngenkuthazo lenduduzo ngiyabonga.
Ngiyathemba abasezinkanyezini abasibhekile bayajabula ngalenkundla njalo ngiyafisa baqhubeke besincedisa.
Posted by: sizwemthembu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/09/08 09:34 AM

Sanibonani, bengicela Uncedo ngokuthi ngicaciselwe ngezibongo nezithakazelo zikwa Mthembu. Futhi ngifuna ukwazi umehluko kubakwaMthembu baseqhudeni nase Nyandeni.
Posted by: MaMntungwa

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/10/08 10:34 PM

Mina ngidinga ukusizwa. NgingowakoMntungwa. Kanti oMntungwa laba ngabaseZimbabwe. Beza besuka eSouth Africa ngesikhathi saboMzilikazi. Abasibo OMabhena Abasibo Okhumalo. NgoMntungwa, EMabila, Elugogo, ESethusa, Emasalesindeni kaLanga. ukho ongasiza na? Sengikengezwa ukuba abakoMntungwa baseNew Castle angikababoni ukuze ngixoxisane labo. Sizani bakwethu.
Posted by: cabucabu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/11/08 03:53 AM

ngena phakathi after Nongoma towards Pongoland, uzobathola.
Posted by: Skhotha

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/11/08 03:17 PM

kaMntungwa
Sawubona wedade ngiyathemba uyaphila lapho ukhona. Mhlawumbe ngizothi ngiyalekelela kanti ngiphosa uphitholo emlilweni. Yebo dade angiyena owakwaMntungwa futhi angihlobene nabo kodwa bakhona engibaziyo abakhona.
Ngicela ukubuza ukuthi ukuthathaphi ukuthi oMntungwa akusibona oKhumalo kanjalo kanjalo? Hhayi ngoba ngikuphikisa, cha, ngenzela ukuthi umasengilena eMsinga eTugela Ferry lapho ekuphethe khona inkosi uMabaso uMntungwa ngibuze abafowethu hleze ngikwazi ukukutholela okusalwazana.
Engikwaziyo wukuthi khona lena eMsinga endlini eyodwa lapho ekuzalwa khona inkosi uMabaso abanye isibongo sabo nguMntungwa futhi bazisho zonke ezijwayelekile zakwaKhumalo oMashobane etc umabezibongela.
Posted by: MaMntungwa

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/11/08 08:45 PM

Skhotha

Ungasiza. Kangitsho ukuba kabayisibo oKhumalo. Kodwa ke ngidinga ukuqondiswa. uKhokho wayengusiPhanda Mtungwa. Ngisadingisisa ukuba uyise yena wayengubani onguye owasuka eSouth Africa.

Ngiyabonga budi ngeresponse yakho.

MaMntungwa
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/11/08 11:41 PM

Bafowethu.

UMNTUNGWA uzelwe phambili kakhulu kulo Khumalo. Ngesintu esiqondileyo, uKhumalo Li-Ntungwa. Kodwa akusiwo wonke ama-Ntungwa ango Khumalo.

U Mntungwa waba labantwana abanengi abafana labo abazala o Mbhena. U Mntungwa sekusiba LISENGE lezizwe zonke kuhlanganisa labo oKhumalo.

O JELE labo ngama Ntungwa.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Sihlisizwe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/12/08 12:06 PM

Nina bengabadi!Nina beLembe eleqa amanye ngokukhalipha!Nina bakaMalandela ngokulandela izinkomo zamadoda! Nalo olwami uvo:

KwelikaMthaniya abangoMntungwa (Khumalo,Mabaso noNkosi-Ndlangamandla)bazalwa uMntungwa kaMbulazi owayeyiNtungwa. UyiNtungwa ngenxa yokuthi uqhamuka egatsheni labeNguni okutholakala kulo nezinye izibongo ezifana nalezi:.

AmaNtungwa ("pure"/original Ngunis)

Biyela
Buthelezi
Dladla
Dludla
Gumede
Khoza
Khumalo
Khuzwayo
Khwela
Lushozi
Mabaso
Mabizela
Majola
Makhanya
Makhoba
Manzini
Maqungebe
Ngobese
Mathenjwa
Mbatha
Mbeje
Mdladla
Mjadu
Mlaba (Ximba)
Mlambo
Mngomezulu
Mnguni
Mnisi
Mpungoshe
Msomi
Mthembu
Myeni
Ncwane
Ndaba
Ndlovu
Ngwenya
Nsinde
Ntshangase
Ntuli
Nyanda
Nyawo
Nzuza
Qwabe
Shandu
Shezi/AmaNcube
Sibiya
Sikhakhane
Xulu
Zulu
Zungu

UMntungwa kaMbulazi akazalanga wonke amaNtungwa-Nguni yingakho engabhekwa njengokhokho yibobonke abalezibongo ezingenhla. Engithanda ukukubalula iphuzu elilodwa, uMntungwa yibizo njengawo wonke amabizo, lalisetshenziswa ngokukhululekile ngesikhathi sika Mbulazi. Ngakho angesisho ukuthi kungenzeke ukuthola omunye uMntungwa emlandwini. Kodwa endlini kaMbulazi abekho oMabena, etc. Ukwenza leliphuzu licace kakhudlwana, koMbatha kuthiwa Shandu ka Ndaba nako Sibiya ababebizwa mandulo ngesibongo uGazu kuthiwa Ndaba; uMbatha akazalani no Gazu.
Posted by: MaMntungwa

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/12/08 07:44 PM

Ngiyabonga ngeresponse yakho. Engikudingayo manje yizithakazelo zaboMntungwa esouth africa.
Posted by: MaMntungwa

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/12/08 08:11 PM

[quote=MaMntungwa]Skhotha

Ungasiza. Kangitsho ukuba kabayisibo oKhumalo. Kodwa ke ngidinga ukuqondiswa. uKhokho wayengusiPhanda Mtungwa. Usphanda ezalwa nguMpendu uMpendu ezalwa nguMoya. Something like that. Owasuka ESouth Africa NguMpendu wayazala USiphanda esese Zimbabwe. Kungakho SKhotha kumbe loba ubani ongadingisisa lembali angasiza.

Posted by: Sihlisizwe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/13/08 03:40 PM

Mvelase! Ngithe akengiqeduvalo lapho kuwena. Nazo ezakini!

Mvelase
Nin'enavel'eNyandeni
Ngomthwalo wakwaMabaso
Nina bakwaGogolazitha
Nina bakwaNobasali
Nina bakwaVezi uNonyanda
Nina bakaNgoz'akakhokhobi
Ngoba wakhokhobel'izinkomo zamadoda
Nina bakaVezi kaMandulo
Nina bakaNotsele kaNodada
Nina bakaSibhuzikazi simayikayika
Nina bakaPhumuz'abant'amaphiko
BaThemb'abaseng'inkom'izele
Nina bakaGude
Nonjolo!
Madl'amathiban'indlal'iwile
Nina bakoNonyezi
Amahwanq'amakhulu
Nina baseQhudeni
Ngokudl'iqhude lifile
Khathide!
Maphanga!
Zakwe!
Kunene!
Jubane!
Sobuyase!

Ngiyethemba ngishaye khona.
Posted by: sizwemthembu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/18/08 01:14 PM

Ngiyabonga. Kodwa ngusafuna ukwazi umehluko pakathi bakwaMthembu baseqhudeni nabase Nyandeni...
Posted by: Skhotha

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/24/08 08:19 PM

Wena kaMntungwa, ninjani? Thina sisaphila lapha emzansi.
Nakhu engikutholile ngabakwaMntungwa. Okokuqala sengathi wawuqinisile ukuthi anisibona oKhumalo?! Lensizwa angayithola yakwaMntungwa nayo ithe "asibazi thina oKhumalo, ngikhule bengaphathwa nokuphathwa". Kodwa okubalulekile wukuthi sonke siyizingane angenke sakwazi konke. Ungithembisile uMntungwa ukuthi uzokuqwandela olunye ulwazi.
Nazi izithakazelo azishilo:

Mntungwa,
Zikode kaLanga,
Buhleni bamakhosi,
Mzilikazi kaMashobane,
wena owadla icembe elilodwa aphume esemabili.....

Posted by: Sihlisizwe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/25/08 03:13 PM

Nina bengabadi!
Ngapha kwelikaMthaniya sazi uMzilikazi enguMzilikazi kaMashobana kaZikode kaMkhatshwa kaKhumalo kaMntungwa kaMbulazi. Lolwazi siluthola eNdlini kaMzilikazi. Akunakwenzeka ukuthi kutholakale uMzilikazi kaMashobana ezithakazelweni zakwaMntungwa kodwa kubuywe kuthiwe uKhumalo akaziwa. UKhumalo umkhulu kaMashobane.

Ngima lapho.
Posted by: Skhotha

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/25/08 05:46 PM

Sanibonani, mangi thembe ukuthi nisaphila nonke lapho enikhona.
Ngokubona kwami uqinisile uSihlisizwe, ukungena kukaMzilikazi ezithakazelweni zakwaMntungwa angikuqondisisi uma bethi uKhumalo "abamazi"! Kodwa ngoba bengishilo ukuthi sisebancane angeke sakwazi konke. Ngilindele ukuzwa ukuthi abadala bona bathini.
Mhlasimbe uma uSihlisizwe engowakaMntungwa ngesibongo, usengachaza kabanzi yena.
Ngokuchaza kwalomfowethu kubo bazukuthi bahlobene noMabaso kakhulu yikho ngakubo kunemindene lapho engcekeni elilodwa kukhona uMabaso noMntungwa bezalwa lapha ekhaya bonke.
Akesiyilinde lendaba singajahi ngoba ngavesi konke okubhaliwe kusukela emilonyeni yabantu.
Posted by: Sihlisizwe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/26/08 03:27 PM

Nina baka Phunga no Mageba!
UMabaso yizibulo likaMntungwa kaMbulazi kanti welanywa uKhumalo. UMabaso wayevelele njengomuntu owazi amkhambi futhi esiza abantu bakayise uMntungwa kaMbulazi. UKhumalo yena wayeyiqhawe lodumo, mhlawumbe yingakho aziwa kakhulu ukwedlula umfowabo omdala; kungenzeka ukuthi lokhu kungenxa yokuthi ubuqhawe kade buqakambiswa kakhulu mandulo."Mabaso owabasentabeni kwadliwa ilanga lishona" lokhu kutholakala ezithakazelweni zakwaKhumalo lapha kwelikaMthaniya. Ukuthintwa kukaMabaso kuveza ubuhlobo obukhona phakathi kwalezibongo zombili.
Ngakho ngiyaphinda ngithi uma uMabaso eyisihlobo salomfowethu onguMntungwa, kumelwe ukuthi uyamazi uKhumalo.
Mhlawumbe umfowethu lona uzalwa uMabaso, uma kunjalo kuyaqondakala ukuthi kungani uKhumalo engekho ezithakazelweni zakhe. Ngokuvamile izibulo liyaye lithathe izithakazelo zikayise kuthi abafowabo bahlanganise nezabo ngemva kokwakha isizwe esisha.Ngikusho lokhu ngoba nalapha akuthiwa Khumalo kuMabaso
kodwa imvelaphi yabo ayinakuphikwa. UZulu no Qwabe bazalwa umuntu oyedwa uBhekizizwe; basebetholwa uMalandela owabulala uyise wabo. Ezithakazelweni zabo ukhona uMalandela kodwa uQwabe kuphela othi Gumede,Mnguni kaYeyeye nakuba bonke laba bawokhokho babo bobabili.UQwabe lona uyena izibulo ngakho ugcine zonke izithakazelo zawoyise. Angethembe ukuthi umzamo wami wokucacisa umlando uyamukeleka, uma kungenjalo nithini na?
Posted by: Skhotha

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/26/08 09:48 PM

Sanibonani bafowethu, niyaphila na? Siqhuthwa ngamakhaza thina ngapha koMhlathuze.
Ngiyakuzwa mfowethu, Sihlisizwe, futhi angikuphikisi. Uqinisile ngalendlela nawe obeka ngayo. Ngokomlando labantu esikhuluma ngabo bahlobene, akuphikwa lokho. Indaba ilele ekutheni abantu besibongo sakwaMntungwa engibaziyo banakho ukuziqelelanisa nabakwaKhumalo. OkaMntungwa yena uzama ukulandela umlando wakubo. Uma ngibheka amaposting akhe uyazibonela ukuthi naye noma engenalo ulwazi olutheni uyazi ukuthi unguMntungwa hhayi uKhumalo. Ngalokho angisho ukuthi abazani noma abazwani kodwa umehluko ukhona.
Ngoba ngithi ngifisa ukwazi ukuthi izimpunga zakwaMntungwa lena emakhaya zizothini, ngisola ukuthi sikhona isizathu. Okungenzeka wukuthi bezikhombe kuwona umlando kaMabaso kaMntungwa kaMbulazi. Kodwa lokhu kuzoshiya umbuzo wokuthi izithakazelo zabo zifaka nenxenye yakwaKhumalo!
Okunye ungathola ukuthi kunomkhutshana noma umthetho owaziwa yibona bodwa oMntungwa! Lendaba ispecific to isibongo sakwaMntungwa nangendlela abakhetha ukusithakazela ngayo.
Posted by: okaMabhedla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/12/08 12:00 PM

kuhle okuthi abantu babekwazi ukuba badabuka kuphi ngakho-ke ngicela ungisize mnumzana ungicazulele ukuba abantu bakoMnkandla badabuka kuphi njalo banguwuphi umhlobo.
Posted by: okaMabhedla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/14/08 06:25 AM

kuhle okuthi abantu babekwazi ukuba badabuka kuphi ngakho-ke ngicela ungisize mnumzana ungicazulele ukuba abantu bakoMnkandla badabuka kuphi njalo banguwuphi umhlobo.
_________________________
Posted by: Mhlakaza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/14/08 12:03 PM

Ngiynibingelela nonke bafowethu.

Mina ngokudabuka ngisuka owgini lesifunda sakwaZulu. ngicela onolwazi lwesibongo sakwaCibane angicobelele ngomlando waso kanye nezithakazelo zakhona.

Ngiyabonga
Posted by: Madlenya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/14/08 12:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Sihlisizwe
MINA NGINGU MHAYISE,UNGWANYA,USIYENDANA, UCEBISA, UGID'GOGWENI OVALA EMNYANGO NGAMAKHANDA AMADODA- u HLATSHWAYO.
INKABA YAMI IKWA NONGOMA KWELIKA MTHANIYA. IMVELAPHI YABAKWA HLATSHWAYO IKWELAKWA NGWANE (ESWAZINI). NGITHANDA UKUTHI ONOLWAZI OLUTHE UKUJULA NGESIZWE SAKITHI ANGELEKELELE NJENGOBA NGIZAMA UKUTHUNGATHA UMLANDO NJENGOBA UNJALO. KUNO HLATSHWAYO ESWAZINI,KWAMTHANIYA,KWAMTHWAKAZI,ETC INGABE SINGABENDLU EYODWA YINI? AMASHANGANE AKWAHLATSHWAYO BANEZITHAKAZELO EZITHI AZEHLUKE
KWEZAMI, INGABE KUKHONA UKUHLOBANA NA?

Ngiyayithanda indlela obhala ngayo ulimi. Kube yishwa ukuthi ungatholi umuntu ongukulekelela ekucosheni umlando wakwenu. Mina angiwazi ngempela.
Posted by: Ndumo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 09/07/08 08:12 PM

SIZANI BAFWETHU NGIFUNA INVELAPHI YABAKWA NDUMO NO MALINGA
Posted by: okaMabhedla

Re: Origins yezibongo - 09/08/08 06:06 AM

abako Malinga
Mkandla,
Malinga,
Khabo,
Pitamlipe,
Nayisane,
Mabhedla,
Mapilane,
Bakhiwe,
Posted by: Ndumo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 09/08/08 09:54 PM

NGICELA UKUCACISELWA NGOMSUKA WALESISIBONGO UKUTHI SIVELAPHI NOKUTHI U NDUMO UNGENA KANJANI KULESISIBONGO [SIZANI BANDLA] [KUYAPHUTHUMA]. "NGIBONGE KULO ONGINCHOBELELE KANCANE"
Posted by: mfo_ka_m

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/15/08 02:55 PM

NjengoMuntu wakoMoyo, kengichatheke engikwaziyo..
Ubaba olele eslixhegu elile 81 years ngo 1999 ePlumtre uyilanda kanje imbali yethu(my family origins). Ubabamkhulu khulu wasuka eWedza waya enkosini yamandebele okaMatshobana wayacela ukukhonza kwelikaMthwakazi. Inkosi yafika yamemukela ngesihle yase imthumela enduneni yakoNdiweni ebiphethe isabelo sasePlumtree. oMpukane, Mphini labanye ngoNdiweni yizizukulwane zalenduna eyamkela uBabamkhulu uMoyo. Wafikake uMoyo wakha, wathatha wazala amadodana akhe abuthwa lawo emabuthweni eNkosi. Balwela inkosi yamaNdebele, bakhonza yona bahlaliseka banethezeka ngaphansi komthunzi omkhulu walinkosi. Lanamhla kulentaba ethiwa NgeyakoTobongwana Nxa usuka ePlumtree town udabula amapulazi kaSheila ulubangise koSikhathini. Lintaba yikho UTobongwana uMoyo lo engimtshoyo aphiwa khona yinkosi kanye lenduna uNdiweni.
Phoke, ake likhumbule lina baka Mzilikazi ukuthi sonke sizalwa yindoda inye.... UNtshwintshi KaNoyanda kaNdaba...
abanye wabazala ngobudoda-abezansi abanye ngoMkhonto langamaHawu abanye njalo njengo babamkhulu wabazala ngokwakha umthunzi omkhulu owenza ukuthi abanye njengo Tobonganwa bayefuna ukuphumula phansi kwawo.

Remember Umthwakazi:
yingxubengxube kaMzilikazi ayakhe ngeZizwe langezizwana
and
UMthwakazi bathi undlela zimhlophe ngoba kaphanganga abafo ezimpini kodwa wazala abafowabo wabetha wathu laba ngabantwana bezihlangu
Posted by: Nkunzana

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/22/08 08:05 PM

Ngiyakhuleka!

Sekunezinsukwana ngiqale ukwethamela lenkundla. Impela kubonakala sengathi inezaqheqhe zolwazi olunzulu, olumtoti, nolubalulekile kwizizukulwane.

Nami ngithi angicele usizo mayelana nolwazi lwemvelaphi yami. Engakutshelwa ubaba ongizalayo kunamagebe, enza ngigcine ngingaqondi kahle.

Ngingowakwa Zulu ngesibongo. Ubaba wathi singabendlu kaKlwani (a.k.a. Khwani in nowadays literature). waphinde wathi singabaseGazini. Ngabe kukhona ukuxhumana kulezi zindlu? Kukhoa mhlawumbe ongangazisa kabanzi ngendlu ka Klwani?

Ekhaya kukwaHlabisa, kodwa ubaba ongizalayo wazalelwa kwaCeza. Kungabe abendlu kaKlwani bazinze kumbe baningi kuphi nezwe.

Kade besizakala, angethembe nami ngizokhanyiseleka.

Bayede!
Posted by: Skhotha

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/22/08 11:05 PM

Ndabezitha,

Cha, Mageba, anginalusizo mayelana nodaba lwakho. Phela uma izinsizwa ezakhelene zihlangana ekuhambeni kuhle ukuthi zibingelelane.

uSkhotha lona wazelelwa esibhedlela sakwaHlabisa. Ekhaya kuseKupheleni kweZwe, eNkodibe endleni ebheke kwaHlabisa. iMpukunyoni ngiyikhomba lana eduzane.

Uphile Ndaba, ngethembe sisazobonana lapha kwelikaMzilikazi siphinde sibonane kwelikaVeyane!
Posted by: Nkunzana

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/23/08 06:36 PM

Heshe!

Elikamthaniya likhulu kodwa lincane. Sibonge ukubonana eNkundleni, sethembe lukhulu esizoluzuza noluzosikhulisa ngokuhlangana kwethu.

Mina ke, ngakhele isikole i NoNdumiso, esigodini saseHlambanyathi, esiphethwe yinduna uHlabisa. Umfula oseduze yiMpelenyane.

Asethembe sizobuye sixoxe!
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/24/08 11:53 AM

ikuphi leyo ndawo Nkunzana, ingabe ukwaHlabisa ngokuhlala, ngiyaqala nqo ukuzwa ngaleso sigaba...unokufika e "Bit by Bit" leya club eseMtubatuba.. smile
Posted by: OkaThabizolo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/27/08 12:11 PM

Hope u can help

My surname is Msimang and have tried in numerous ocasions to find my origins but have not been able to do so.

Kanti lesisibongo sethu siqhamukaphi angikaze ngisibone ngisho ku chazwa izibongo.

I tried to contact C.T. Msimang hopeng he can share some light but ingxaki i email ebengiyisebenzisa eyakwa shooter and shooter mybe he never got the massage.

Any help I can appreciate.

Angke ngigxeke muntu noma yini oza nayo I will accept kuphela nje mina kufunakala ngithi go through what u tell me digest it and make my own decision.

Regards
MD MSIMANG
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/27/08 01:23 PM

ngisayo phenya Thabizolo, ngobuye ngikwabele nami engizokuthola ngomlandu wakini....
Posted by: JJMATSHETSHE

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/27/08 10:55 PM

Quote:
Angke ngigxeke muntu noma yini oza nayo I will accept kuphela nje mina kufunakala ngithi go through what u tell me digest it and make my own decision.


Ngethemba uphilile mfowethu. Njengoba uthembisa la ngaphezulu nami ngizokuhlephulela okuncani engahlangana lakho ekuhambeni kwami njalo ngethemba ngingeke ngikudukise ngabantu abalesibongo sakho. Ekushoneni komngane wami omkhulu owako Msimanga owaye esakhele eMafikeng evela eKZN( l think eMgungundlovu),kwangena ama 4 x4 lezinye inqola zikanokutsho ezazibelethe amavili emhlani ,specifically from Free State bebizwa oMsimang , angisakhulumi nge KZN lapho umufi owayedabuka khona.But there is this one unpopular guy ongusomabhizimusi wase Soweto who depened the confusion that we all had with this family efanayo but with a different surname. Yena wayengubhudi wakhona omkhulu owayelanda imbali ukuthi ngubani umufi ngesikhathi sisenkozweni.Wathi yena eziqamba wathi ungu....Msimango, the original. Wathi yena ikhehla eladabula lesisizwe lalihamba labafundisi lingumvangeli from Gasa, linguMsimango, lafika kwaZulu lazala uMsimanga, laphelela e FreState selizala uMsimang. Ngaphandle kweqembu lakhe laseSoweto, iKZN leFree State were annoyed by this 'distortion' of their history. Zashesha ezinye izikhulumi khona e church zaqondisa ukuthi uMsimang/Msimanga/Msimango wonke osechurch munye, kwehlukana izi spelling nje qha.Sithe ma sesiku aftertears baqhubeka be mgxeka lo ubhudi wabo omkhulu ngenkulumo yakhe yokuziphakamisa lokwehlukanisa ifamily.To an outsider like me womke la amaqembu wawuwabona nje ukuthi aphuma enkunzini eyi one njalo wonke ayasutha asikho nje isichaka. Kodwa ke sasala singayazi imbali yakoMsimang abaziwa ngaMatebele eMafikeng.

La eMafikeng banengi, uMsimang lo Msimanga bangumndeni munye, njalo badume nge entrepreneurship ngingabala , ama shops,amatavern, petrol stations,saloons, taxis , commercial farming njalo njalo.Ukhona ubaba u Msimang ebevamise ukusithengisela inkomo, siyihlanganele sibane siyihlabahlabe foro inyama(wu, amathe ami aze agcwala umlomo ngikhumbula inyama yokoswa efresh, oya izinsuku ezadlula!) . Kodwa bafike lemithwalo from KZN and Free State and bakhuluma njalo baphila isiZulu. One village where there are concentrated is called Uitkyk, l think ku map it falls under Radithuso/Kopfontein.

Ngethemba angikudukisi sihlobo ngendaba zasemgcwabeni. Bazokupha uncedo abanye phambili, ude uzichazele impendule ozifumeneyo lathi sifunde ngoMsimang
Posted by: Bhakaniya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/28/08 11:40 AM

Very interesting about umndeni wakwa Thabizolo eMafikeng, are tehy possibly reminants of the trail up north by inkosi uMzilikazi? Also how present is the spirit of mzilikazi in the NW province , since he built his stronghold in that region, have you visited any sites such as eMarico district, egabeni etc???
Posted by: OkaThabizolo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/28/08 03:29 PM

I hear what people are saying, thanks I hope that more people can come and share some light to this surname.

Ngiyazi akulula but I will not give up.


I suspect ukuthi abantu baka Xaba sihlobene nabo.

Confusing enough some say we are Suthus I dont know what to be lieve I am going through Journals that were published during the 70s hoping that I will find something.

Any help will be appreciated regards

OkaThabizolo
Posted by: OkaThabizolo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/28/08 04:21 PM

Nango umfowethu ubhakhaniya kudalo ngangingakabi yilunga lale nkundla ebhala ethi:

Msimang - Nonkosi, Mlotshwa, Thabizolo (Bavela kwaHadebe)

Ndoda yamadoda kuthiwa injobo ithungelwa ebandla nginike umthombo oghabule kuwo name kengiyo galela khona.

OkaThabizolo umntwana
Uyabonga
Posted by: JJMATSHETSHE

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/28/08 11:49 PM

Bhakaniya eliMmnyama.

Yebo, ngizakuxoxela nge ThabatsaMotsilikatsi( Mzilikazi's Mountains) kanye le SilikasKop (Mzilikazi's Head)khonale kwelabeTswana ;emzileni weNkosi uMzilikazi. Manje sengisiyalala...kungene amakhaza
Posted by: duze

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/01/08 05:57 PM

ayi wena. wena. cha abakuyeke. usuyolala. futhi unolwazi oluyisimanga unjalo nje. kodwa cha abakuyeke uyolala.
Posted by: JJMATSHETSHE

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/01/08 06:39 PM


Duze ,Duze musukungiqala ngizilalele. Kanti kawangenanga yini amakhaza ngakwelakho . Awulali ngani kukhifiza izulu lamakhaza nje. Uphi vele ?ngoba ngakwami iqhwa liyafunisela.
Posted by: duze

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/01/08 08:26 PM

ayi ndoda. cha mfana uyinkunzi yangempela. noma ngithi uyinkabi yangempela. phela izinsizwa zakwaZulu uma zincomana zibizana ngenkabi. ungezwa bethi lo yinkabi wazi ukuthi ubaqedile. enye inkabi yathi kimi ngina, isho ngeminwe isho 7, ithi ngina 7 phansi la. nawe ngiyasola nkabi ungathi kubi la kwakho.
waphinda walala nasemini futhi. kanti uhamba nini nkabi,ebusuku.

enye inkabi engihlobane nayo bathi la kubulawa umuntu kubizwa yona. ngitshelwa ngumfowethu. ngelinye usuku babehleli emtshadweni khona emekhaya kwaZulu kanti ingane zizenamakrikethi. maziwashaya yasukuma inkabi yakhupha isibhamu yadubula ingane unyawo. mabeyibuza yathi beyithi iyahlaselwa. inkabi lezi be careful ngazo. ungezwa kuthiwa nkabi woo ubobhasobha. nkabi lalakahle.


Posted by: JJMATSHETSHE

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/01/08 08:46 PM

Duze, Duze ngithe ngilele Nkabi. Kodwa kunjani kwakho namhlanje sihlobo.

Uyangihlekisa khona sengilele.Uzazelaphi inkabi wena? Kambe uyazi ukuthi lalamhlanje zisekhona inkabi KwaZulu. Buza mina mfowethu, ma kulemicimbi ziyaqoqwa. Kodwa le eyokudubula e e Duze mfowethu.Siyadubula/Siyavikela !!!

Konje udume ngokusukelana Duze.
Wothi kengithi yoko kancane ngiphume kuwe, i reggae kaShaya FM iyangilolozela.
Posted by: duze

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/02/08 11:52 AM

JJ ngisaphila mfowethu unjani wena nkabiyami. zisekhona ngempela inkabi awubheke nje nakhu ngixoxa nenye yazo. haa. futhi ngazibona kahle inkabi. ungazizwa zikhulumela phezulu, khululeka akukholutho. ungazizwa zikhulumula phansi nguuu nguuuuu wuuuu, hamba kubi. ayoshaywa yileyo elamulayo. uzwa ithi myekeni boo, anikahleni boo. yiyokanye ezokudibha phansi ngenhlamvu.

kodwa inhlonipho zinayo inkabi. itshaya phansi ngedolo ikubize ngobhudi haa yingozi.

kodwa nkabi iBekton ikuphi. mina angihlali eLondon ngingaphandle. ngempela ngiyafisa ukuyohuba mfowethu. phela ngalesiyasikhathi ngomcimbi weNkosi ngeza nge sat nav. yavela yathi you have reached your destination phakathi komgwaqo. kwafanele ngehle ngibuze abelungu ukuthi iphi lendawo. abanye bathi kungani kungena road name. ngasengithi ngaze ngabayisilima. ngasengithi kudlalwe ngathi. ngabuza omunye umlungu wavela wakhupha imobile fone yakhe wacofacofa wangilayela. le sat nav yavela yangishiya in the midle of the road. so ufake iroad name mfowethu angihlali eLondon. sala kahle Mthwakazi omuhle. kungathi abafowethu beZapu bangahlangana kahle mhawumbe bona sebediniwe yikuxoxisana namaTshona. besebebuya ngolunye unyawo phela siyaphela siyahlupheka sigcwele all over the world not because of our failures but because our master the Tshona is messing up. when will we ever be the masters of our own destination?
Posted by: OkaThabizolo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/03/08 08:13 AM

Ngiba nokudumala okukhulu uma madoda senenza lenkundla yezibongo eyenye into ngoba phela la abantu abachaza ngezibongo aba thatha inxexheba la.

Thina esifuna ukwazi ngezbongo zethu siba nenkinga.

Nakuba ninelungelo lokukhuluma noma yini eniyifunayo kodwa kubalulekile ukuhlonipha elethu.

Vulani esinye isihloko sokulala madoda.

NGIYEMA LAPHO
OKATHABIZOLO UMNTWANA
Posted by: duze

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/03/08 08:49 PM

OkaThabizolo kunjani mfo. xola mfo if ngikuphazamisili. bengingaqondile ukuphoxa umoya wakho. ngiyaxolisa mfowethu. kanti nguwena owaqala isihloko lesi. cha mfo kuphazamisekile ngokuthi ngisuke ngikhulume ngokunye okungaqondene lesibongo.

kuthiwa injobo enhle ithungelwa ebandla. buza mfo bayokutshela abaziyo mina angazi lutho mfo ngezibongo manga mabi. xola mfowethu. salakahle. kodwa yini engiyishiloyo ekuhambe kabi kangaka mfowethu?
Posted by: JJMATSHETSHE

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/03/08 09:00 PM


Good Duze! Wenze kahle S'khokho ngokuxolisa, no better magic than to say sorry, ngihlala ngitshumayela abanengi ngepower ka :I am sorry. Kuyimpucuko enkulu lokho.
Uzoxola umuntu weNkosi.

Lami ngiphinde ngithi maluju kaThabizolo, uyazazi lawe impelaviki nsizwa yakithi. Sethuka sekunguMvulo obonvu.

Posted by: MTHWENTWEHLABA1

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/04/08 02:44 AM

Akula nto embi la ngitsho lakancane. Ma ufuna ukubuza ngesibongo esithile it does not matter what is written in the thread before. Manengi amathread la aqalise ngesihloko esithize ecine sokungokunye and there is nothing wrong or there has been nothing wrong with that. Lingaboziyekelela ngoba akululnganga.
Posted by: Veli

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/04/08 07:41 AM

Interesting views and opinions on the oringins of surnames, so far ngifunde okukhulu mayelana nendabuko yezibongo.

Ngiyethemba ukuthi ngizothola uncedo kule forum

Isibongo sami u Lukhozi. I am looking for the origin of this surname yakwa Lukhozi nesithakazelo sakhona.

Anyone have a clue? Ngizojabulela uncedo lwenu, it will mean a lot to me.

Ngiyabonga
Posted by: OkaThabizolo

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/04/08 09:56 AM

Bafowethu ngiyejabula uma nibona impazamo lapho niphazame khona phela lapha siyakhana.

Kusho ukukhula nokuphusa komqondo ukwazi ukubona iphutha.

Mfoka Lukhozi sisazo bheka uma sesitholile singeze sakuncisha ulwazi

Yimi Ozithobayo
UmfokaThabizolo
Posted by: duze

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/04/08 01:40 PM

mfowethu kunjani namhlanje. angithi uma sithi isizwe sakithi sinenhlonipho abantu bathi siyaziqhenya. isintu sakwaMthwakazi sihle mfo. sinobuntu thina. asithukani uma singaboni ngasolinye. angithi kwawena awuthukana. so why must thina kumele sikuthuke. it was just that no one knew that the particular heading was strictly for izibongo.
Posted by: Mpembe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/11/08 10:32 AM

Bafowethu

Lapha ngimema zonke izingane zakwaDladla ukuba sidingade imvelaphi yethu kanye nezithakazelo ngokwahluka kwazo. Ngiyazi ukuthi sidabuka kwaMbatha. Kodwa ulwazi lwami alunzulu kangakho.

Posted by: Mduduzi5

Origins yezibongo - 11/21/08 08:16 AM

Uzwakala ungumuntu onolwazi futhi ozethembayo, ngiyakuthanda lokho. I just discovered ukuthi ngingowakwa Khuzwayo ngokozalo ( ekhabo'baba ) Uma unolwazi ngezibongo nomsuka ngingathi okusamlanjwana nje walesisibingo, ngiyafisa ukwazi kabanzi ngemvelaphi yami
Posted by: Siyathemba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/21/08 01:55 PM

SANIBONA, NGOBANI OONDABA,TSHIBASE, BHADELA?
Posted by: Sihlisizwe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/24/08 07:09 AM

OkaMhayise uthi:

Nakho okuncane enginakho okwamanje:
Gumede!
Qwabe!
Mnguni kaYeyeye
Khondlo!
Osidlabehlezi bakaPhakathwayo
Abathi bedla babebeyenga umuntu ngendaba
Bethi "Dluyeya ngenhlana, umalokazana ubeyethe kayikhuni
sidingida yoyodaba kanti bahlinza imbuzi!"
Malandela ngokulandela izinkomo zamadoda!

UQwabe no Zulu amadodana kaMalandela kaLuzumane kaMnguni kaYeyeye.
UQwabe yizibulo ebeselanywa uZulu kunina uNozinja. UNozinja wayethanda uZulu kakhulu wabesemsiza ukuqoqa imfuyo eningi okwenza kubekhona ukungezwani phakathi kwalezelamani uma uMalandela ekhothama. Kunokuthi kuchitheke igazi uZulu,uNozinja nabanye ababethanda uZulu bahlukana noQwabe bayakofuna amadlelo aluhlaza enxenye. Lezizizwe zaqhubeka zehlukene kwaze kwaba sesikhathini seLembe, uDlungwane woMbelebele,uMlilo wothathe uShaka kaSenzangakhona.Ngalesikhathi uPhakathwayo ubeyinkosi yakwaQwabe. Ilembe layiphaka yaqonda kwaQwabe eyakwaZulu, uPhakathwayo ubengalindele ukuthi kungenzeka ahlulwe kulempi ngoba ayemaningi amabutho akhe kwazise ukuthi esakwaQwabe kade kuyisizwe esikhulu impela. Kodwa indlela yokulwa kweLembe yayingakajwayeleki ngalesosikhathi, uPhakathwayo weza nabesifazane nezingane enkundleni, wahlala ethunzini ephethe nokhamba ecabanga ukuthi uzonqoba masinyane kanti akabuzanga elangeni. Wehlulwa ngaphambi kokuba alwe uPhakathwayo, kuthiwa wanelewezwa ukuthi wehluliwe wabulawa uvalo(shock). UDlungwane wabeseqoqa sonke isizwe sakwaQwabe saba yinxenye kaZulu. Ngenkathi sekubusa iSilo saseMgungundlovu uDingani kaSenzangakhona uNqetho owayeyinkosi yakwaQwabe kwadingeka ashiye elakwaMthaniya ayekwelamaMpondo ngenxa yokuthi uDingane ubecoboshisa bonke ababezwana noShaka, wehlulwa uFaku emaMpondweni wabesebuyelakwaZulu lapho afike wabulawa uDingani.
UKhuzwayo ngenye yamakhosi akwaGumede ayebusa engakacatshangwa nakucatshangwa uPhakathwayo. Nazi ezinye izibongo eziphuma kwaQwabe/Gumede:
Maphanga
Khuzwayo
Makhanya
Gcabashe
Mzimela

Yilokhu okuncane engikwaziyo ngabakwaKhuzwayo (Mnguni kaYeyeye!) abavela kwaQwabe/Gumede.

Mhayise!Ngwanya!Siyendana!Cebisa!Ngele!Bogama abavala umnyango ngamakhanda amadoda! Mgogodlana!
Posted by: Mduduzi5

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/25/08 06:13 AM

Ngiyabonga kakhulu wakwethu, akufani nokungazi lutho. Ungathi inkosi ingakwandisela kwinjula yolwazi onalo.

Regards
Mduduzi
Posted by: Mbezothuli

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/28/08 08:37 AM

Kelingitshele kahle ngesibongo sakoMhlanga. Thina singamandebele kaMzilikazi. Silenking ngoba sizwa abanye bethi SingaManguni, amanguni wona athi singamahole. Ubaba uthi sidabuka kwaZulu. U Gogo uthi sidabuka kwaVenda. Omunye umkhulu uthi singaMaTshangane. Izangelo zethos ayisizo ezakwaGasela ingabe Khebezi nge zako

Ntini
Mbezothuli
Somabhulane kMdlongwa
Endlebe zikhanyilanga

Sizani zihlobo!
Posted by: Mduduzee

Re: Origins yezibongo - 12/01/08 08:10 AM

bakithi, bengicela ukuthi ningitshele izithakazelo zakwa Mabena,Mbuduma! kubalulekile lokhu khimi.
Posted by: bhele

Re: Origins yezibongo - 12/10/08 06:38 AM

Sanibonani Ngimusha Enkundleni Bengicela Ongangi nceda Ngesi bongo nange zithakazelo zakwa "SIQEBENGU, Njomboni,Langa, Khuboni" Noma umuntu owaziyo ngokuthi si velaphi nginga jabula impendulo zenu.
Posted by: 789

Re: Origins yezibongo - 12/11/08 07:56 AM

Ngyabingelela, mfoka Mvelase nenkundla iyonke lekelelani. Ngifisa ukwazi ukuthi mina njengo Mthembu Ngihlanganiswa yini noSthole? yena kakade uphumaphi? plz sizani.
Posted by: Sibalukhulu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/08/09 02:58 PM

Quote:
Ngingathanda okwazi ngemvelaphi ya bantu bakwa Shabalala. Nezithakazelo.
Posted by: sikhondovu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/09/09 10:34 AM

Zingane zakwethu uma ekhona owazi umlando wakwaCebekhulu ngicela angilandise. Ngizwa kuthiwa bangabesuthu basenhla abehla ngesilulu. kodwa ngibuye ngizwe kuthiwa bangamantungwa. ababye bathi ngaphambi kwalokho babengabakwa zwane abanye bathi babengabakwa linda. ezithakazelweni zakwaCebekhulu uyavela uNtsele kalindamkhonto njengakulezi engizibalile.

Skhondovu
Posted by: Bhudaza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 04/23/09 11:18 PM

Chronicle of the Khanyes

By Pathisa Nyathi

KHANYE,
Mwelase,
Wen ongaweli ngamazibuko,
Owela ngezihlenge zomfula.
Sodoyi wezansi,
Gatsha kaMlotshwa,
Gatsha kaMehlwana,
Nguba kaNgwane,
Nkonyane ephezulu,
Ezabanye ziphansi.
Wena kaLophanjwa,
Ophanjwa yinjobo yakhe,
Eyakho injobo yaphamba uMbanjwa loSamanzi.
Thole elakhethelwa emaguqeni,
Ngokungabi lawabo ematholeni,

Some weeks ago, Bheki Khanye, the Reverend Paul Bayethe Damasane and I set off to Makhandeni to interview Mika Khanye. Bheki was keen to learn more about the history of the Khanyes. We were to assist him interview his relative. Now, we seek to share with the rest of the Khanyes and interested members of the reading public what came out of the interview.
We started by giving the Khanye family praises so that we may appreciate how much historical information the praises carry. Poetry was one form of orature which non-literate societies made use of to record and preserve their history, general experiences, beliefs and key values, among other things.
After colonisation and introduction of literature, African societies began to lose a lot of their history and cultural practices following de-emphasis of orature. The family praises found a place during ceremonies and whenever members of the clan made great achievements and were praised as a way of acknowledgement.

The demise of orature, including family and royal praises, is a regrettable development. African societies are all the poorer with the loss of their ages old heritage. The least that we can do is collect and preserve forms of orature for posterity. Equally important is the need to explain each and every word in the praise poem.

Mika Khanye was born in 1919 at the village of Induba, not very far from Ingwenya Mission (John Tallach Secondary School) or south east of Turk Mine. In the heyday of the Ndebele State, Induba was an important regimental village whose chief was Lotshe Hlabangana of the amaNtshali people.
Each regiment had its own colours (as indicated in the colour scheme of their shields) song and regimental praises. Induba was praised as follows: Indubazana ngokuduba amany amabutho. Apparently, Induba had several amaxhiba, one of which was eMabhudeni into which Mikas grandfather Mathambo was conscripted.

Lotshe, also known as uMdengehashi (implying that he owned and rode on a horse) was killed on the instructions of King Lobengula. Apparently, Lotshe had advised the king to make peace with whites by signing the Rudd Concession in 1888.
When the King was faced with the collapse of his state, he is said to have regretted turning down the advice of Lotshe. Yek uLotshe! Umuntu kafi aveze umunwe, said the king. Be that as it may, the village of Induba continued to exist, unlike that of Zwangendaba which was destroyed and its inhabitants asked to join other villages ukecela imbuya as the Ndebele referred to the phenomenon.

After the demise of the state, what had been the village of Induba then fell within white farms in which the Ndebele continued to live for some time. In exchange for the right to stay on the farm, some people were expected to offer their labour to the white owner or pay rent.

Mika was able to recount one favourite tradition of Induba regiment. It is said Insukamini, King Lobengulas second regiment commanded by Manondwane Tshabalala, set off on a raid in the land of Chief Khama of the BaNgwato. BaNgwato country was to the south of the Ndebele State. Lying along the route to the land of the BaNgwato were the Kalanga villages belonging to Chief Malaba, most probably Ntelelas father.

Feeling the prangs of hunger, the Ndebele soldiers went on to help themselves to the grain which was stored in the granaries located on rocks, sometimes a short distance from the village. The cheeky soldiers proceeded to make isathiyane, a dish prepared from a meal prepared from sorghum or finger millet grain and milk.

In no time, the Ndebele soldiers were attacked by the hot porridge that they had eaten. Some soldiers sought refuge in pools of water. But when they emerged, the hot porridge scalded them. Isathiyane sikaMalaba became the talk among the soldiers from Induba and Insukamini regiments for a long time. The tradition lives to this day.

With land alienation, Induba people were evicted. The majority of them went north into the Shangani Reserve, also known as Nkayi and Lupane. Some went to live in the nearby reserves of Ntabazinduna and Inyathi.
Posted by: MHLAHLANDLELA09

Re: Origins yezibongo - 04/24/09 11:55 PM


Bhudaza.

Liyibambe lingayeki sihlobo.


Inhle kakhulu incubungulo yenu .Liphinde phela lihlolisise ezinye izindlu ikakhulu ezamanye amakhosi kumbe ngithi izinduna, ukuze sazi kahle invelaphi lomlandu wesiswe sakithi.
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/03/09 01:49 AM

Bafowethu.

uSihlisizwe uthi:
"AmaNtungwa ("pure"/original Ngunis)"

Esintwini esiqondileyo, ayikho into okuthiwa "PURE" nguni. Lokho nje ngokusetshenziswa yilabo abathathela indaba endleleni.

AMANGUNI azalwa yizizwe ezehlukeneyo, okufana lama NDEBELE ka MTHWAKAZI lamhlanje. Besekusiba lalabo abafuna ukuziqansisa yibo ababona abanye ukungabi PURE.

Asiqondanga isintu esithi "PURE".

Lapho esithi ORIGINAL khona, kusilele, ngoba izangoma zibala imihlhobo lezibongo ezinengi ukwedlula lapho nxa sikhuluma ngama ORIGINAL NGUNI.

Some NGUNI became more prominent than others, that does not make them ALONE the original. Neither do they become "PURE".

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Phunyukabempheth

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/04/09 05:34 PM

Yho
Posted by: Sihlisizwe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/04/09 04:32 PM

Bandleliphakathi!

Uma lapha kwelikaMthaniya sithi amaNtungwa oqobo "pure" asiqonde kubandlulula kodwa siveza invelaphi yalabo abagcina sebakhe isizwe sikaMjokwane kaNdaba, uDlungwane.

Zwangendaba, the term "pure" as it is used in this context doesnt mean original or without mixture. Within context it among other things relates to common ancestory, route of arrival to Mzansi and time of arrival. The settlement of African tribes within South African happened in waves.Those that happened to migrate together under the same overlordship of Malandela even though they were of different origins were named Ngunis because he was of Nguni origin. When they arrived in Southern Africa they found it populated by other clans and to separate themselves from these they called themselves true or pure Ngunis. It doesnt mean that they originated the Nguni tribe nor does it mean that they are the only Nguni tribe in Africa; but it means within the South African context they were the first and only Ngunis in the country. Assimilation of other tribes gave those tribes the status of being called Ngunis but a distinction is made between those who came as Ngunis and those who were later included in the fold.
I dont know about people in Zim but in South Africa we trace our ancestory way before the Zulu overlordship of iLembe. We are Zulus, yes, but we are not of the Zulu tribe of Malandela and that doesnt make us any less that a person whose last name is Zulu because we understand that the Zulu nation is made up of very old and proud tribes that offer allegiance to the Zulu king.When we say we are Zulu it means that we share a history that binds us as a people, it means at some other time in history we fought, died and lived together as a heterogenous nation.
Within this context my clan (Hlatshwayo) is counted as Zulu even though it has a Swati origin.
I've used the Zulu example to highlight that terms have to be used and understood within context or wrong assumptions and conclusions will be made. No one is denying that amaNtungwa or Ngunis for that matter can never be pure in the scientific (genes) sense, but purity is ralative.

Mhayise,Siyendana, Ngwanya, Ngele, Mgogodlana,Cebisa!
Posted by: MHLAHLANDLELA09

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/05/09 03:43 PM



BraZwangs lo Sihlisizwe.

Thanks for the debate. For we are learning and we can draw parallels lamaNdebele akithi.Africans have a culture of 'migration' ie not allowing themseves to be confined in spaces that are unproductive for them. Hence in this day of industrialisation and urbunisation, it is even more difficult to get a homogeneous tribe.

Quote:
When we say we are Zulu it means that we share a history that binds us as a people, it means at some other time in history we fought, died and lived together as a heterogenous nation.
Within this context my clan (Hlatshwayo) is counted as Zulu even though it has a Swati origin.


Thus how I view amaNdebele kaMzilikazi ;made out of tribes you find in SA,Swaziland , Lesotho ,Botswana and today Zimbabwe. Currently we have substantial tribes from Nyasaland that have been assimilated in the Ndebele fibre owing to the Rhodesian migrant labour system. Therefore I dont think it is inappropriate to refer to these as Ndebeles for they have been with us in bad and good times.There are a number of things that bind us together eg culture, history , geography and the iSiNdebele language.In the Zimbabwean context; Phiri-Banda/Nyanja, Dlamini/Swazi,Makurane/Sotho-Tswana,Mkwananzi/Zulu, Mdimba/Tonga, Nleya/Kalanga, Sithole-Hlatshwayo/Shangani etc etc are Ndebeles and trying to extricate elements in such a heterogenicity in the persuit of purity would yield an impure product.

I suppose we should leave it to individuals to define themselves as pure/original( whatever that means) since only themseves know their lineage.For example, an individual may proclaim himself as Ndebele first or second, it is not for us to say you are Kalanga or Sotho because we are generally called Ndebeles.This is pretty much like 'diasporians' who have acquired a second citizenship. They are those that value both as having the same status, others that value the new nationality more and those that would stick to the old and not even change their pasport.
Posted by: brancob

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/07/09 03:36 PM

Bakwethu, nami ngiyabingelela. Kodwa ke, mina ngiliNdebele leSouth Africa. thina-ke asizibizi ngokuthi nginguMNDEBELE njengezinye izizwe bathi nginguMzulu, nginguMswati njll.
Isizulu lesi ngikwazi ukusibhala ngoba ngasifunda kodwa ngisebenze kakhulu ngokubhala isiNdebele. Ngiyabona ukuthi kulobulwembu amaNdebele akwelikaMthaniya nalawa akwelikaMzilikazi ayezwana, sizoke sibone ukuthi lesi sethu isiNdebele nikwazi kangakanani ukusiphendula.

Kokugcina: Ngiyithandile yoke ikulumo yenu ebulenjini. Ngelanga linye nje ngaba ne-interest ngaba lilunga. angithembe ukuthi ngeyemukeleka, khulu khulu ku-Origins Yezibongo.
Posted by: Phunyukabempheth

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/07/09 03:53 PM

Baba Brancob siyakwamukela, khululeka nje asikhethi nhlobo singabe Nguni sonke
Posted by: Mayifohloza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/07/09 04:34 PM

Kambe ukhona ongabe esazi kangcono ngesibongo sakoMzankwa,lezithakazelo zakhona?Ngisizeni bo!
Posted by: brancob

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/07/09 05:21 PM

Eyi, angazi ukuthi wagcina usizekile Mdu, it is my first day as the forumer yeNkundla. Angisale sengikuphakela.

Izithakazelo zakwaMabhena: Thina-ke isithakazelo sithi isinanazelo ngoba uyananazela nawukhuza ubuqhawe.

E! Mabhena
Mbuduma!
Ncagu
NgebakaMusi kaMhlanga
Ikomo,zembe nabantu
Sigwegwe sakoBingweni
Esasinda ngoba ingeselitje
Ngathana ibingeselithi besizakweluleka.

Angiyitjhiye lapho ke, Mbuduma yakomasok' asokile. Mhlambe ngingakhe ngikusikele nemvelaphi yabo laba bakwaMabhena. BamaNdebele, uMabhena ngokaNcagu kaManala kaMusi kaMhlanga kaMafana.

___________________
Madlayedwa, inengi liyangiphangela
Posted by: brancob

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/07/09 06:17 PM

Mnto, uxole ngokuthi ngiphendule phezu kwale-post.

ngithi ake ngifake umbono kenye yama-Post amadala, post 38103, 22 May 2008

Ngicabanga ukuthi unembile uMthwaliwphahla ngokukhomba uMziesta emaNdebeleni. Akhe ngisekele....

Okuncani akuvezako uthi
Untuthu yashunqa emhlangeni
Osilima ngamahashi inkomo ziphelile

Akaqedelele athi Msi, Mhlanga ngoba.....

EMhlangeni phela kulapha uMsi, ozala uSkhosana athatha khona ubukhosi ngaphambi kokuthi aye ePitoli. Indawo yaseMhlangeni iseduze kwe-Randfontein, eWest Rand, Johannesburg.

Umlando usitjela ukuthi ngemva kokukhotha kukaMsi, kwavuka umbango phakathi kwamadodana uManala noNzunza, uSkhosana wakhetha ukubashiya ngaphambi kokuthi abuye sekahlanganyela noNzunza ngokukhmba kwesikhathi sebahlukene uNzunza noManala.

__________________
Madlayedwa, inengi liyangiphangela
Posted by: Shandu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/09/09 10:07 AM

U Dladla uzalwa u Shandu,ungumfowabo ka Mbatha kanje; amadodana ka Shandu kwakungabo 1.Magwaza 2.Mbeje 3.Mbatha 4.Dladla namantombazane ayekhona noma engaphathwa nje.Anginalo ulwazi oluphelele,ngizocela nabanye abanolwazi bengeze.
Posted by: Bulabe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/09/09 04:57 PM

hayi mayifohloza ingathi asiphili leso sibongo ngcono udinge esinye lami ngingakuncedisa lapho, ngincedisani lami ngibuza esako Maphosa lokuthi sivele impande zakhona zinga?
Posted by: Madlenya

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/09/09 06:03 PM

Bulabe
OMaphosa bonke besintwini bangaMaswati.kodwa sebekhona njalo oMaphosa baseMpumalanga.
Posted by: Mayifohloza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/10/09 11:47 AM

Sisi mina phela ngilizezuru that is why isibongo sami ngingaziwa so.Mina sisi angazi lutho ngesibongo sakoMaphosa singakutshela amanga.Kanhti ungowakoMaphosa futhi?
Posted by: Mduduzee

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/10/09 04:55 PM

Ng'thanda ukubonga kakhulu brancob ngezibonga zakwaMabena, ngingajabulela ukuzwa ngemvelaphi yabo.
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/10/09 11:47 PM

Bafowethu.

Ngivume njalo ngale sihlobo sami SIHLISIZWE.

"AMANTUNGWA" angabakhona azibiza athi "PURE", akulamlandu. Bayabe beqondile. Isizatho siyikuthi amantungwa ngumhlobo, ozalwa lijaha elithiwa Mntungwa. Yikho uzathola abazukulu lamaxhakela esintungwa ezazi lawo ukuthi "they are not pure".

"AMAZULU" lawo alalo ilungelo lokuzithi "PURE", ngoba ngumhlobo ozalwa lijaha elithiwa ZULU. Isintu samandulo siyakuvuma lokho. Kuthi labo abaza ngokuthunjwa bavume ukuthi esizweni leso kukhona abathiwa "PURE".


Kwehlukene lokho labe NGUNI. Akekho ongazithi yena is pure Nguni ngoba AMANGUNI akazalwa lijaha elilodwa. AMANGUNI ngumhlobo woku"LWANDA" ngesintu samandulo. Inkosi uMalandela akasizalanga isizwe samaNGUNI. WASBUTHA. Ngesintusamandulo kuthiwa wasi LETHA.

Lokhu ke kufane lesizwe samaNdebele ka MTHWAKAZI. Akazalwa ngumzilikazi amaNDEBELE ka MTHWAKAZI. U Mzilikazi ubeliNtungwa. Wasiletha isizwe samaNDEBELE. SIhlangene izizwe ezizalwa ngamajaha ehlukeneyo.

QUOTE: >>>"Uma lapha kwelikaMthaniya sithi amaNtungwa oqobo "pure" asiqonde kubandlulula kodwa siveza invelaphi yalabo abagcina sebakhe isizwe sikaMjokwane kaNdaba, uDlungwane.<<<End QUOTE.

UDLUNGWANE, kanye lo ZULU uqobo phambi kwakhe, kabazange babe ngaMANTUNGWA. Amantungwa ngumhlobo owehlukeneyo khatshana lama ZULU. Ukuze Amantungwa abe ngama ZULU, kube yikuya fihlwa kuka Mzilikazi ekhwapheni lika Tshaka.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Bhudaza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/13/09 08:28 PM

Meaning of the name Tshuma

Source: Cultural Heritage with Pathisa Nyathi (Sunday News)

LAST week we gave four clans or houses of the Tshuma people.

Just to recap we identified Tshuma Gonde, Tshuma Nkumbi, Tshuma Nimwala and Tshuma Mbalambi.
The next section or clan is that of Yelane. The wife of Vice-President Dr Joseph Msika belongs to this section. The Gwambes north of Plumtree also come under this section. The Ngulanes are part of this clan and probably Dupute too.
The seventh group is that of Nitrumbidze, a Lilima-speaking people found in Madlambudzi. Finally, we have the Tshuma Nibukwe. The Dambes in Masunga, Botswana, belong to this section. The Dambes embraced Christianity at an early stage.
At one time they even claimed Chuma who was Dr David Livingstones guide was a member of their clan. Some people though think Chuma was provided by Chief Hwange.
Now we turn to the surname Tshuma and see what it means. In both Shona and Kalanga tjuma/chuma refers to beads. At the same time we have the Tshumas who say they are Golide, a Ndebele word that means gold. Just where is this coming from?
While the Kalanga were busy Ndebelising their surnames, the Tshumas did not do so as pointed out in the last article. On the surface of it, it was not easy to pin them down to a totemic animal. This is not to say they did not have one.
Oral tradition makes mention of some Tshuma people who sneezed terribly when they milked cows. The explanation, so the traditions claim, was that the Tshumas are actually Nkomo.
We did say the Tshuma Nimwala who include the Sipepas were Tshuma. But these Tshumas are better known as Nkomos eg Sam Sipepa Nkomo, the Minister of Water Resources.
Let us now advance some theory that may link tjuma/chuma and gold. As part of adornment, African people have been using beads of one material or another. Beads were worn around the neck, wrists, waist and ankles. Some people even wore them around their brows and below their knees.
Beads were generally made from plant seeds and later they were made from ostrich eggshells and soapstone. The eggshell and soapstone beads were fashioned out the same way circular discs with small holes through which some thread passed. Archaeologists have unearthed both eggshell and soapstone beads from Iron Age graves.
As far back as 600 AD African peoples in central and southern Africa were already trading with Arabs/Swahili in the east coast. One commodity that they obtained from the African continent, among several others, was gold.
Initially, gold was extracted by indigenous people with the sole purpose of exporting it. There was then no indigenous value attached to gold. The position soon changed when gold was adopted by the locals for local use.
There was then some value attached to the precious mineral.
Gold was special and soon assumed value which was in line with indigenous worldview. The colour of the mineral is eye catching. Gold is a hard metal and that makes it durable, especially in comparison with both soapstone and eggshell beads.
With local value attached to gold, the locals sought after it. As a special and scarce resource, the mineral, and in particular products made from it, was unevenly distributed. Its possession soon reflected social stratification within a given community.
The ruling elite acquired it more readily than members of lower socio-economic classes. However, what was important was that gold was not given a monetary value. To the locals, gold merely replaced eggshell and soapstone beads.
That was the advent of the gold beads that were found in their hundreds in the burials of royalty. At Mapungubwe the graves on the hills (obviously royal graves for southern Africas first kings) yielded lots of gold.
The gold was mostly in the form of beads, in fact, they were gold beads.
The important thing was that they were beads and that they were gold beads was secondary. The shape and general appearance of the gold beads was just the same as that of eggshell and soapstone beads.
But the Kalanga/Shona word for beads, whether made from gold soapstone or ostrich eggshell is tjuma/chuma. But now we have tjuma/chuma the beads that are made from gold. In our view this is how the Tshumas are linked with gold and hence their praise name of Golide, the Ndebele word for gold.
We shall continue next week and show how gold became even more and more associated with royalty.

Posted by: Bulabe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/15/09 12:47 AM

Ngiyabonga Madlenya, kodwa ke labo abempumalanga asibazi ukuthi bavela ngaphi asihlobani ngitsho lakancane..
Posted by: Mokwena

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/22/09 05:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Madlenya
Bulabe
OMaphosa bonke besintwini bangaMaswati.kodwa sebekhona njalo oMaphosa baseMpumalanga.


Angazi kuliqiniso kangakanani, kodwa ngezwa omunye owakwaMaphosa ethi oMaphosa oDlamini. Aku phawule nawe baba Zwangendaba ngoba ungani uyawuqondisisa lomlandu wakwaSwati
Posted by: FBI

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/22/09 05:15 PM

Origins of ozibongo derrived from heroism..e.g if a man killed an elephant with a trap he will be known as NDlovu that goes to how amen leaved his live. If one was a coward he will be mocked with a silly surname. In my view i dont think surnames lasted for more than 2generations.
Posted by: Mokwena

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/22/09 05:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Mayifohloza
Sisi mina phela ngilizezuru that is why isibongo sami ngingaziwa so.Mina sisi angazi lutho ngesibongo sakoMaphosa singakutshela amanga.Kanhti ungowakoMaphosa futhi?


Hayi wena maan, yeka ukuzi fohloza umqondo. Anyway, umfazi akanawo umhlobo, so wena thola umshado esintwini kumbe ngapha ngakithi kwaMokwena ukuze ube naso isibongo esiqondile hk.

On a more serious note, try and find out ebadaleni bakini ukubana loMzankwa yisibongo samampela kumbe ligama lomunye kubo khokho bakho owayelizanka nje...
Posted by: Mokwena

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/22/09 05:32 PM

Originally Posted By: FBI
Origins of ozibongo derrived from heroism..e.g if a man killed an elephant with a trap he will be known as NDlovu that goes to how amen leaved his live. If one was a coward he will be mocked with a silly surname. In my view i dont think surnames lasted for more than 2generations.


Ukuthathaphi lokhu FBI??
Posted by: Mokwena

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/22/09 05:40 PM

Kwaba mnandi ukuba nawe lapha eNkundleni wena Brancob. Kukhona omunye umsana wakwa Mahlangu ozalwa khonale kwelikaMzilikazi ongicele ukuthi ngimphenyele ngemvelaphi yasekhabo njalo nezi nanazelo zakhona. Nceda ndoda.

Out of curiosity, lishoni legama lakho elithi Brancob?
Posted by: Mayifohloza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/23/09 11:17 AM


Mhlawube uqinisile ukuthi kwakuligama olomunye wabokhokho,ngizabuzisisa kugogo wami.Esakho isibongo angisifuni Mokwena,hk
Posted by: FBI

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/23/09 06:46 PM

Mokwena it is true wot i said mate, if you look and history, surnames where never carried out as we do now. For example, Xhosa surnames are way different from Natal /zulu surnames, why, it can be argued that Xhosas where left by whites to have their own state while zululand was occupied their for the surnames where forced by social factors to stay same. Xhosa surnames most are of no meaning or animal names.
That said in Byo Kalangas were over powered by the arrival of Ndebeles who forced them as the did seek refuge and adopted such surnames in order to `belong`. Tshona pipo did same.
Therefore the factor that the white men made the natives to have identity made it imposible for one to change his surname.

Hope u get a small picture of my point thou.
Posted by: Marhethela

Re: Origins yezibongo - 09/29/09 08:53 PM

Ngiyaxolisa ngokubiselabantu emuva.

Kodwa ke FBI noZwangendaba kanye nebandla kenincede bafwethu. Ngingowakwampofu wakwamthwakazi mina. thina asizanga sayiphakamisa lento yezithakazelo. Then ngezwa nje abanye bethi singoshaba. On my research ngoshaba laba, ngadiscover ukuthi igama u-Sasha lisho into ebomvu njalo litholakala kubalilima amakhalanga asebutswana. Kukhona abanye abathi thina singabetshabi, hayi ngiyala;
i.impofu ayandanga kwelabetshabe yande kwelikamthwakazi,
ii. Lowo mhofu okuthiwa satshintsha from yena you will rarely find umuntu onalesisibongo ebutshabini,
iii. Abanye bathi singamakhalanga, I will tell you one thing, la engikhulele khona agcwele amakhalanga but emzini kababamkhulu wonkumuntu wayesazi ukuthi ma ukhuleka uthi "ekuhle" hayi "Tapinda".
iv. umasasingamakhalanga loba abetshabi there should have been some remnants of some of these people's tendencies. Ngoba ngisegoli kunzima ukuthi ngiphindele e osabeni ukuba ngiyefinder out but one day ngizoya nakanjani.

Enye into iinduna zika Mzilikazi bekungamanguni loba abenhla angithi??? lingikhuze mangilahleka ende nalamhlanje lezonduna lokhe kuyizo eziphetheyo angithi??? If so then why induna uTshitshi isibongo sayo singesakompofu. uTshitshi yinduna etholakala emangwe icomander indawo ezifana nabompandeni kuze kuyefika esanzukwi.
Posted by: FBI

Origin yezibongo - 10/01/09 02:40 PM

Mfethu Marhathela origin yebongo doesnt have a single explanation.

This is what i know.

The use of a surname is relatively new in history and was adopted in order to legally distinguish two individuals with the same first name.

At first, these last names were not passed down to the next generation.

The Chinese were among the very first cultures to adopt the use of hereditary surnames about 5000 years ago. In Europe, surnames weren't used until the 10th or 11th centuries AD in Venice. Gradually throughout Europe, all nobility and gentry adopted surnames until eventually surnames were used by all Europeans of all classes.

What does my last name mean? If you have ever wondered about the meaning of your last name, where your family lived, what they did, or how they looked, you may find your surname may answer some of these questions about your ancestors from many hundreds of years ago.

In our very own cultural myth as we understand it we often suggest that surnames have a hidden meaning.(i dont personally believe that) Infact, all the answers perhaps lie in how our accestors lived and they adopted any surname as they see fit and to belong to a certain group or tribe. If worriors conquered it was possible for them to start dancing and praising such heroism leaving a surname to that individual.

Its true the whites are the ones who enforced and made it copolsory for everyone to have an ID which made surnames somehow to be permanat.

The most and better solution to get your facts right as to where exatly your origins are is by DNA because as blacks we dont have complete written records of our movement.

It is argured and disputed that surnames ever lasted for long in one family then, to them it wasnt a big deal as to us now because social and pyschological behaviour did make them comouflage on whatever was apluadable or of refuge.

As i said fethu there is more believes, undestanding and implication of surnames therefore its up to an individual in what s/he wants to take as facts or leave it open minded.
Posted by: Sgweje

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/02/09 03:46 PM

Ngiyabingelela ngokukhulu ukuzithoba ebandleni.

Kuthiwa ingane engakhali ifela embelekweni, Nami ngithi angikhothame ngingelutho ngingebani, ngikhale ebandleni, ngicele phela usizo ngokwendabuko, nezithakazelo zakithi KwaKunene.

Ngike ngakhanyiselwa okuncanyane ngendabuko kodwa angicgulisekile. Ngithi mangifunda ngilandela imibhalo yenu madoda ngizizwe ngishoda kakhulu ngemvelaphi yami.

Ngiyo jabula manginga sizeka
Posted by: Sebe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/11/09 06:43 PM

Originally Posted By: BATHWALIBOPHAHLA
Mbaleki
Qhubeka muntu wakithi, abadala bathi umfula ugcwaliswa yizifula lezifudlane. Lokho okubhalayo kungezelela ulwazi esiluswelayo kakhulu.
Akutsho phela ngo:
Mlilo
Mafu
Dlamini
Mdlongwa ; ngabe sande ngaphi, ngisikhumbula kwenye yezincwadi ezimnandi zika NS Sigogo



Ngiyabingelela enkundleni , angazi inga ngingakusiza mfowethu .As far as l know isibongo sako Mdlongwa sivela esisuthwini lesiTswaneni .Ioriginal kunguMotlokoa, sometimes spelt as Mutlokwa. I might be wrong kodwa from personal experience ukhulu ozala ubaba waza evela eBotswana ngamalate 1940s enguMotlokoa , ubaba wazalelwa eZimbabwe uthe esiyathatha isithupha umuntu weregistry wazibhalela ukuthi Mdlongwa so lamanje sisebenzisa uMdlongwa. Ngithe ngibuza ubaba ukuthi why out of all his family enguMdlongwa while his other brothers and sisters are Motlokoas he then explained that abantu bakoMdlongwa bavele bangoMotlokoa . UMdlongwa was coined by the Zulu & Ndebele speakers .If you go on google there is a very detailed history of the Tlokoa people abakaMntatisi.


Thina izitemo esizisebenzisayo ngezesisotho , it could be because we are sotho speakers.I'm very curious to know ukuthi those Mdlongwa people who do not have sotho or tswana as their first language bazitema besithini?Thina sithi :

RebaTlokoa ,baTlokoa machaka , maimela , BaTlokoa basina tsele, mathabajapile , jamurau arilibeleli.
Posted by: FBI

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/13/09 06:35 PM

(ngizizwe ngishoda kakhulu ngemvelaphi yami.)

Fethu your history does not have a,b,c,d,e or 12345 sequence!!
If you look at how Zimbaz change their names wen they enter SA you will understand that, that will be the same problem to the generation to come when they try to trace their ancestors...us.
Surnames are not old, very new indeed. Trust me there is no hidden meaning or treasure behind surname apart from how our beloved ancestors interacted with nature. this applies to both whites n blacks. e.g John his kids where Johnson or Johns...Locksmith men his kids Smith or Keys!!
In Madagascar every one has hi/her surname including siblings, biological father having his own!!
If my memory saves me rite, during 70-80s pipo changed their surnames during vigorous registration.
Posted by: MHLAHLANDLELA09

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/13/09 09:30 PM




Quote:
RebaTlokoa ,baTlokoa machaka , maimela , BaTlokoa basina tsele, mathabajapile , jamurau arilibeleli.


Nanzo ke Mthwakazi omhle!

Wang'kgatla MoTlokoa Warona. Ke etumetse tsala yaka.People who have little to value from kuzibongo zabo ( ikakhulu abetshabi ) bazokudukisa njalo beyise ingqakatheko yezibongo. The reason being that their surnames( or bona bathi basebenzisa amathothems) are useless to them or any group and have no interesting history the way okubeka ngakhona.

Ke asetsiba Sechaba saMaNtatisi Rre Sebe.

Ungawalahli amasiko akho Mdlongwa.Ubuntu bakho bugxile esibongweni sakho. Thus why iSintu sisithi' Salibonani/ Salibona ( from siyalibona)'lanxa sibingelela umuntu oyedwa. Lokho kutsho ukuthi siyakubona wena labo bonke abakini, meaning you are carrying a flag yangakini. Okuhle lokubi okwenzayo emphakathini kubonwa indlu yangakini koMdlongwa ukuthi lingabantu bani khona bengekho. Langaso isiSuthu/Tswana sithi 'Dumelang '( siyandisa khona sibingelela umuntu oyedwa) kasiphonguthi 'Dumela !' njenje.

Isibongo determines ukuthi inhlelo zakini liziqhuba njani IE from CRADLE TO GRAVE. For example oKhumalo kabalahli inkaba yomtwana ngendlela efana leyangakithi.Kithi siyasokwa ngokwesibongo. Kukhona abakuzilayo eg mina engingakuziliyo. I lahlo lakibo kalifani lelangakithi. Ama retuals omdeni ayehlukana ngezindlu.Kodwa sonke singuMthwakazi sehlukaniswa yizibongo ezindala which we value very much.

Ungalaleli abatshabi bentshuma nje , ngoba kasifani labo vele ku value system yethu. Only umtshabitshabi would not understand ingqakatheko yenvelaphi yezibongo.

Posted by: Sebe

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/25/09 01:04 AM

@FBI its also unfortunate or rather fortunate that l can not also follow the hogwash u wrote as response to my post .Its nosense any way some of us have always been Motlokoas and we can not wash that away. Wether this was a name given to us after the arrival of the Dutch at the Cape its neither here nor there .That you can not trace your own lineage is your own funeral to attend .

In any case my post was an attempt to shed a light on the previous posters' query about the origins of the Mdlongwa surname and as l said in my previous post , l do stand corrected but l am 98% sure the Mdlongwa people are the Motlokoa people . So spare me your nosense, if u do not have any other evidence to the contrary.I'm not going to entertain your evidenceless theories till you bring something worth my attention. I do thank you in advance .

@Mhlanhlandlela kea leboa tsala . Rena we treasure who we are as you rightly put it motho wa esu, everything is done the Tlokoa way in our family. I used to love it every December when we made our annual visit to my dads' aunties and uncles and one of his old auntie(may her soul RIP ) , she would stand at the centre of the homestead to welcome us and sing those praises.Isiko lezitemo zethu l will hold on to and l will pass them to abantwana babanewethu .I do not want the baton stick to be dropped under my watch. I would encourage anyone who wants to know about iorigin yesibongo sakhe ukuthi abuze amaparents akhe because you might be shocked as to what a great source of both relevant & valuable information they are.
Posted by: FBI

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/26/09 01:42 PM

SEBE... my post simple put forward the origin of izibongo and how they came about. What i elaborated brings to light the fact that our beloved forefathers chose surnames based upon their interaction of nature. For example Ndlovu surname is sometimes called GATSHENI which means our super fathers new that an elephant feeds on upper branches per se. therefore, Ndlovu (elephant edla ugatsha etc)
Our forefathers used such surnames to associate themselves with those whom they trusted and wanted to accept in their small groups to the larger groups.
Remember our forefathers usually had more than one wife meaning they easily made a small clan.And language developed as a result of conflict. e.g ndebele and zulu similar but different.The movement was very crucially as it either made such clan larger or small. What i said was our history should be understood why surnames where chosen and how they were used, that is very important. that is differnt as to where did my forefathers lived.....and
Posted by: Marhethela

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/26/09 07:58 PM

Ningalwi madoda enkundleni.
FBI ngiyabonga impendulo yakho on my last posting njalo ngiyayi appreciator Kodwa ke still bengicela ma kukhona omunyumuntu enkundleni ma elolwazi olutshiyene loluka FBI angincede bakithi.
Posted by: FBI

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/27/09 06:30 PM

Cha mina i do love pipo who are serious even if they use strong lingo its very healthy.

The other issue i honestly blive is that the impact or use of surnames as we understand them will never be the same as our loved ancestors bared. We can try by all means to apply those semetics but will never climax to the level valued by our great ancestors..this simple is becoz of social cohesions and its factors.
I don`t have any kids yet but im in favor of us teaching kids exatly how surnames where chosen and the impact, pride and joy which was felt by them and how us in 21century view them.
To be honest and trying to be understanding does not mean one is not accepting his roots or not respecting his forefathers.

Posted by: MHLAHLANDLELA09

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/01/09 12:43 AM





Quote:
Originally Posted By: FBI

Origins of ozibongo derrived from heroism..e.g if a man killed an elephant with a trap he will be known as NDlovu that goes to how amen leaved his live. If one was a coward he will be mocked with a silly surname. In my view i dont think surnames lasted for more than 2generations.


Ukuthathaphi lokhu FBI??





Where are you getting all this wena muntu!

Its very difficult to respect your opinions , for we come from communities that have revered and valued surnames without any legal cohesion for generations . Just to explain how Ndebeles respect surnames. Intombi ma izalwa i bizwa MaNdlovana, itshadwe ko Ncube kodwa ibizwe mam'MaNdlovu, idondolozele ize iyofa inguGog'MaNdlovu. Abantwana bayo yibo oMaNcu labo baze bayofa bengo MaNcube. In Zulu and Ndebele, isibongo (for men or women) kasiguquki. Izangelo kumbe izithakazelelo/izibongo ziyanda but NOT ube ngu Dube in another generation ngoba you have killed a Dube this time. Lumbhedo owubhala lapha ngezibongo uwucuphe esitshabini yini FBI? Phela abetshabi yibo owawuthola uyise lendodana belezibongo ezingafananiyo because there is npo cultural value in mantaining the same surname kwaze kwaqondiswa ngabelungu. E Sintwini ke cha FBI. Azikho izibongo ezeyisa amacowards or as silly as you say in your posts.All our surnames ziyakukhulisa as aperson and are respectiful. Im not sure about the meaning of those long tshabian ones if they are 'silly 'or derogatory.
.
The Khumalos,Dlodlos, Tshabalalas,Dubes, Mahlangus, Ndlovus, Masukus, Mgunis, Mdlongwas,Ndebeles, Ndiwenis,Sibindis, Ndimandes, Mathes, Gampus,Zulus,Nkomos, Mabhenas,Ncubes, Sitholes, Mlotshwas , Tshili etc , did not have to kill any animal or cut a tree to have that sibongo. We have a lot of animals that our ancestors killed or related with in the environment but we are not called after them, eg Bhalabhala, Mziki, Sambani, Mbuzi, Sidumuka, Mvu, Nteletsha etc.

Our surnames predates the arrival of colonisers.

Your arguements about the Zulu / Xhosa/ Khalanga/Ndebele surnames is all but hogwash (in the words of Mr Mdlongwa) and simply shows how shallow you understand these people.It is very questionable whether you come from any of those nations/ tribes because if you did, you would be having a better understanding about the value and permanence of surnames from generation to generation in our culture.If you you are not familier with a subject, kungcono ukubuza than ukuzenza ungqamngqotsho um.... kanyolovu kanti uyantshuma nje FBI.

IsiNdebele sithi Inyathi ibuzwa kwaba.........
/Indlela ibuzwa kwaba.........
Posted by: FBI

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/03/09 02:04 PM

Its a fact surnames were created thru interactions with nature/nurture and conflicts and did not fall from the sky......the reinforcement of surnames is not that old.
Even 10yrs ago i know of a man who changed his named as he travelled in BYO.
Mhlahladlela you sound like those who think the bible was made from heaven. All i can say is think outside the box......i never said my views are conclusive but based upon some findings and studies i`m convincied that im not off track.

There should be a line btwn *ORIGIN OF SURNAMES AND FAMILY TREE*
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Origin yezibongo - 11/05/09 05:02 AM

Bafowethu.

Ngincindezele:>>> Its true the whites are the ones who enforced and made it copolsory for everyone to have an ID which made surnames somehow to be permanat.

The most and better solution to get your facts right as to where exatly your origins are is by DNA because as blacks we dont have complete written records of our movement.

It is argured and disputed that surnames ever lasted for long in one family then, to them it wasnt a big deal as to us now because social and pyschological behaviour did make them comouflage on whatever was apluadable or of refuge.<<< Ngime.

Njengoba sisazi ukuthi ulimi esilusebenzisa namhlanje lulimi oselwa thonyelwa zindimi zokuza, kunengi okungachasiswanga ngokuqondileyo.

Isibongo zihlobo liBIZO elisetshenziswa ukungwana thina abasaphilayo, labakwethu asebedlulayo. Yikho uthola isibongo siqakathekile esintwini, "IT HAS A RELIGIOUS CONOTATION".

Ngiyangizwe abanengi bethi u Mpofu kutsho inyamazana. Akunjalo zihlobo. Isibongo uMpofu sidala, Inyamazana lazo zetheswa lelo bizo ngoba ziMpofu. Kodwa u Mpofu ngomdabuka ngo Maquba, ungivumele sihlobo ngikuqondisise lokhu engikutshoyo lapha, ngoba ukhokho kamama kuboyise ngo Mpofu besibezwa betshonjalo.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: FBI

Re: Origin yezibongo - 11/05/09 12:13 PM

ZWABGENDABA kazulu
True to some point what you say. Remember lingo was developed by our very ancestors therfore they named animals as to animals naming themselves.
I like it when you stress that our surnames turned to be a religion to our ancestors...very true indeed.
Posted by: Marhethela

Re: Origin yezibongo - 11/16/09 02:56 PM

Uthinte mina Zwangendaba, vele yiyonanto ebengifunuyenze. Ngiyabonga mfowethu. Bengicela mfo utsho okunengi ngalesisibongo sakompofu. Kumbe ngithi ma ungangirefer to some source ngizifunele mina invelaphi yaso kahle kahle.
Ngizothi mangifika nasekhaya besengiyazabalaza impela ngoba ngifunulwazi olujuliyo ngemvelaphi yami kanye lesibongo sami. I will mention this, Nxa kungenzeka ukuthi ngizithole imvelaphi yami ingikhomba ebutshabini convincingly ngeke ngiphinde ukungena kulenkundla plus ngizoba very disappointed kakhulu.
Posted by: Ntombiziyamfuna

Re: Origin yezibongo - 11/17/09 06:55 AM

Mhlobowami waze wayiqamba indaba elukhuni. Mina ngingokaMthwakazi ngomdabuko njalo ngisebenzisa lesosibongo osisebenzisayo lawe. Ngike ngizwe abantu bethi abakoMpofu ngabetshabi, mhlawumbe bakhona abetshabi kodwa kwelami icele sengikholiwe ukuthi angikho lapho. Thina sikhule sibizwa ngabazalibethu ngokuthi singo "Bhena" azangengizwe kukhulunywa ngoshava laba okuthiwa siyibona.

Enye into nje engibeka isibindi yikuthi sibelenhlanhla emndenini odadebabobabamkhulu baphila iminyaka engaphezu kwekhulu. Kwabayibo abayibeka sobala imbali yakwethu. Ubabamkhulu ozala ubaba ubelebizo lesintu yena ezelwe ngama 1880s.Besekuthi uyisekakhulu, ongukhokho wami yenake igama lakhe bekungu Nhlamba umfowabo ka Nhlamba, uNdlabalayi ubelibutho ku regiment ye Nsukamini. UNdlabalayi ufelempini yasePupu. Ngokwazikwami, iNsukamini ibigabhe abeNhla, bekungelabetshabi. Therefore ukuba ngumtshabi is out.

Umangiqhubeka layo indaba, oNhlamba bebezalwa ngu Mtsuhela yena uMtsuhela ezalwa nguRahali. Uma ungenza eyakho i arithmetic ngeminyaka, kusobala ukuthi lapha sesikhuluma ngemnyaka e well before the arrival of Mzilikazi in present day Zimba and akulabizo lesitshabini lapha.

However, ubunzima engilabo ngobuthi thina singabako Mabhena ngomdabu, ngoba vele ezinye izihlobo zethu azange zaguquka lokhe zisebenzisa yena uMabhena. Kuthiwa singabe Suthu. Ngikengathi ngibala ugwalo oluthi ilifa labobaba ngathola kwenyindawo lapho indoda yako Mabhena eyathi iqedakukhuluma kwezwakala enye isithi "Belo wena Msutshwanyana" Lokhu kwenza ngakholwa ukuthi abako Mabhena ngempela ngabe Suthu. Kodwa uma nginanzelela ngifumana ukuthi oMabhena base South Africa ngamaNdebele akhonangale.

Umbuzowami uthi, OMabhena labeSuthu kungenelana ngaphi, nanku phela okhokho bethu balamabizo esiSuthu kodwa ngoMabhena? Ololwazi akasize Mthwakazi omuhle. Singathukani njalo singeyisani enkundleni. U Mthwakazi uwaziwa ngenhlonipho langokunanzaikusasa. Ngethemba mhlobowami Marhethela uzasizakala lawe kulindaba. Sibambelunye, abetshabi abasebenzisi izibongo ezinjengezethu bathatheka sebebona zonalezi ezethu labo sebeqala ukuthi mofu mofu bona bevele belezabo ezingeneliyo kuma birth certificate.
Posted by: Sakunqandwayini

Re: Origin yezibongo - 11/17/09 01:49 PM

Mina ngifuna ukubuza kuZwangendaba, uthi OMpofu ngoMaquba as per origin, please elaborate your views I want to know more njengoba lami ngingowakoMpofu nje, I have never heard that view before
Posted by: Ntombiziyamfuna

Re: Origin yezibongo - 11/18/09 10:02 AM

Indaba etshisayo lami engithanda ukuyicasiselwa ngeyokuthi kungani sasuka ku Mabhena saya ku Mpofu. Ngike ngathi ngise Bhelingwe, eMberengwa kwelika Mthwakazi ngadibana lenyindoda yangibuza ukuthi ngiyi Mpofu Mabhena kumbe hatshi. I tried to find out why etshonjalo, wasethi bandile abantu abanjalo kuleso sigaba. Angisatholanga ithuba lokubuzisisa abalalesosibongo.

Embalweni wami wakuqala bengichaza imbali yomdeni wakwethu, njengokuyichazelwa ngabadala. I am not sure whether this linkage is perculiar to my family only or it affects bonke abako Mpofu. Bengithi mhlawumbe nginganikeza lokhu abathi yi background kuzancedisa kulabo abalolwazi lokusisiza mhlobowami.
Posted by: Bhudaza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/20/09 09:45 AM


Cofa Lapha


http://www.wakahina.co.za/?action=alphaselect&theid=13

Posted by: Ntombiziyamfuna

Re: Origins yezibongo - 11/20/09 03:13 PM

Ngiyabonga Bhudaza. Kungathi sengiba le idea manje ukuthi u Mpofu lo Mabhena kungabe kwasukelaphi.
Posted by: sibu

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/24/10 11:51 AM

hallo brothers: i am NOT really sure as to the truth regarding the Shamase people; i do believe that there is definitely a "distortion" of history on that one! if there are people bakwaShamase in Zambia and or Zimbabwe, it is definitely the product of uMfecane, no two ways! i am hoping that this is about ukubonisana more than showing off "what we think we know"
Posted by: Zithazemkhonto

Re: Origins yezibongo - 05/24/10 12:28 PM

Waze wafa yindlala Muntongenakudla. Yeyi noma ngifike lendaba isingenwe ngamakhaza; Kodwa ngiyadideka ngempela uma ngibeka udlebe ngilalelisisa amazwi akho. Ukhuluma njengomuntu ongabekekanga ovele akhulume nje noma yini ayicabangayo. Uthe wena abakoMoyo asomaLozwi or Ndebele bangamashona because Rozwi has since changed to be grouped to all different groups in zim to Shona. Kodwa ngiyamangala uZwangendaba uma ekuqondisa ngegama leli lesi Bhozo ukuthi likhona lesizulwini, uyala wena uthi yisi Xhosa, kanti wena awazi ukuthi amaXhosa abuya khona kwa Zulu, originally from Nguni kodwa baqhubeka ngokufuduka kwabo eminyakeni eminingi eyadlulayo.

Noma ungahlala kwaZulu ukhulume isiZulu, nawe awusuye umZulu, ungumNdebele...

Uyigweme lendaba yakho yokuba nenkani-ungathi wakhulela esilulwini!
Posted by: Zithazemkhonto

Re: Origin yezibongo - 05/24/10 12:53 PM

Wabeka Ntombiziyamfuna. Mina umama wami ongizalayo laye ngowakoMpofu. Ngendlela engazingayo mina abakoMpofu ngamashona. Badabuka kulomhlobo okuthiwa ngama Ndawo. Kukhona lapho okhulume khona ngokuthi ukhokho wakho wayelibutho kumaregiments. Ubeke kahle Qhawe. Lami umama wayengitshela ethi kuthiwa okwenza uMzilikazi adonsele okhokho bakhe esiNdebelni kuthiwa babelobukhosi obuthile kodwa obabu nzinze kakhulu emithini yesintu. Uthi ukhokho wakhe uNhlanganiso owayezalwa nguJokajoka(in Mzilikazi's times - which means Jokajoka was older than Mzilikazi-no route or name of Tshabi here)nguye owayelosizo loba kwakungavezwa kangako emphakathini ngenxa yokuthi he was not an original Ndebele-kwakuthi uma amabutho ezakulwa abageze ngemithi yesintu. Ukhumbule uMzilikazi wathi efika eZim kuningi akushintshayo ikakhulu emithini yesintu lokwenza kwahlukana lokwakusenziwa kwaZulu ngoba imithi eminingi wayengayazi ngenxa yezihlahla ezihlukileyo lalezo ezakwaZulu.
NGathi uma ngimbuza ngisiya phambili ngokuthi pho yena ukuthathaphi ukuthi bangamashona wathi utsho ngoba babekhuluma sona isishona okhokho bakhe angakwaziyo yikuthi lomhlobo wamaNdawo wona udabukaphi ngoba uthanda ukugqama ngezibongo namagama angathi athanda ukuba yisintu noma isinguni lesi esakudala.

Lami ngibeka elijikayo bakithi. Siyakhulisana
Posted by: Marhethela

Re: Origin yezibongo - 05/24/10 03:16 PM

Ngiyala mfowethu, angilayo ihistorical evidence kodwa still ngeke ngivumelane laye umtomdala. Angali mhlawumbe bona babengamashona. Kodwa kwethu ayikho iremnant yobushona lanxa usuphindelemuva. abakithi naneyakhe esikhalangeni kodwa bengafuni lakuzwa anything engasosintu. ngisho ngoba umama likhalanga, wadonsiswa nzima ngoba kuthiwa amakhalanga awafunakalithi. kwabazi isikhalanga, ma ukhuleka ekhaya ngesikhalanga kuthiwa "Tapinda" kuthiwa ke emzini kakhulu wami ozalubaba (kanye labafowabo) wawungeke uyenze emzini wabo leyonto, ngoba babevele babheke eceleni bengakusabeli. kwakumele uthi "ekuhle ngekhaya". Now ngikhuluma ngesikhalanga esasingekho welcome, what more of isishona? besides kulomuntu owayengasuka as far as eastern highlands amigrate up to as far as eplumtree ngaleziyansuku? angiboni ukuthi kwakulula. Amandawu phela ngabantu beshipinge mfowethu, asobetshabi futhi ngabantu bakasoshangane yingakho uthola izibongo ezifana nabo dlakama, dliwayo, dlodlo.
Leyo theory ngiyayiyala.
Plus ma ubheka sengisho manje nje, ma ubona umuntu wakompofu u expecta ukuthi akhulume luphi ulimi?
You couldnt have had 90% of the people abakompofu betshintshwa from ukuba ngamashona to Ndebele nje that easy.
Ngiyaphinda njalo ngiyala angisoshona mina.
Posted by: Zithazemkhonto

Re: Origin yezibongo - 05/24/10 03:58 PM

Mntakababa bengithi mhlawumbe ubuze ukuthi isbongo sakompofu sivelaphi. Mina nginje eyethu imbali ibuya emaswazini kodwa angisazi lokusazi futhi uma ukhuluma ngaso kimi ngizwa nje ngidineka. Pho ke ukuthi ngakini babengafuni nokusizwa isikalanga angiboni ukuthi kusho ukuthi mhlawumbe okhokho benu babengesiwona amakalanga. Bona abangakini sebekwesinye isikhathi futhi bangena bakwana esindebeleni okungangokuthi isikalanga abasafuni lakuzwa ngaso. AmaNdawo yikho ngishilo ngathi uMama wathi akhuluma isishona manje kodwa akazi ukuthi bona babevele benqamuke kuluphi ubhambo ngoba abakososhangane labo ngabantu ababuya kwazulu ngesikhathi semfecane.

Ukhumbule ukuthi ngithe mina ngizalwa ngumaMpofu futhi ngikhulele khona. Bonke umndeni wabo unabile abanye bahlala edurban abanye esgodini, abanye e America kodwa uma kuxoxwa nje ngezimbali babeka njengoba ngibekile mntakababa. Yebo kambe umuntu wakoMpofu uma ngihlangana laye kumele ngi expect ukuthi akhulume isiNdebele lokhu kungoba badonselwa phansi kombuso ka Mzilikazi. Uma babebuya kwazulu, ngabe sikhona isibongo sakwaMpofu kwaZulu njengezinye nje esizaziyo. Futhi ukube bayasho nokusho ababeseduze nendlunkulu. Wena sengikubonile ufuna ngithi abakoMpofu ngamaNguni noma Zulu, Cha! Akunjalo.

Uvume ukugobeka emqondweni kuze utholisise ukuthi libuyaphi lesibongo senu bakoMPOFU!!!!
Posted by: Marhethela

Re: Origin yezibongo - 05/24/10 04:39 PM

Njengoba ngingasothathekile nje ngeke ngivume ukugobeka ingqondo lula. Phela baba omzilikazi abafikanga kudala kakhulu komgodoyi. Mangikhuluma ngobabamkhulu ngikhuluma ngomuntu engingala lapicture yakhe ukuthi wayenjani. Ma ubaba wami engoka 1943 it follows ukuthi ubabamkhulu wami wayezelwe mhlawumbe around 1920s or even before. Now ukhokho ke yena mhlawumbe ngo1900 or before and isizwe samandebele sakhiwe after 1831 right!! Now wena ungitshela ukuthi lababantu basebelahle ubushona babo completely babangamandebele ngesikhathi esifitshane kangaka. i ORAL history is good but lami nginje i can put pieces together baba and see ukuba u 1 lo 2 kwenzu 3 nakanjani.
Ungafaki amazwi emlonyeni wami, angizange ngifake igama elithi nguni loba zulu mina. funda uyekumastrings asemva uzothola.
Manengi amatribes afakwa ngumzilikazi kundebele state.
Lamanje ngiyayidisputor eyokuthi abakompofu ngamashona. Ngoba mababengamashona it is not possible ukuthi bonke babezinyanga njengoba usitsho to the extent yokuthi almost bonke ngikhuluma nge90% baconvetor to ndebele.
Wena ungumswati neh? right inengi labantu besibongo sakho bayatholakala na eswatini? if yes then it conforms to what i am saying , and if not then maybe you will need to find for sure ukuthi ungumswati na?
Ungabhada yonkiSA uzobathola ompofu, ubhode ibotswana uzobatholompofu, kodwa imajority isesindebeleni komthwakazi hayi emashoneni. Mina nakanjani ngizoyiyala leyonto yobushona kungangcono kukhulume idlozi lakithi. Likhulume ngesishona, then i will commit suicide after that.
Posted by: Zithazemkhonto

Re: Origin yezibongo - 05/24/10 04:55 PM


Ungazibulala wakithi uphile la ukhona. Sengibonile ngikhuluma lomuntu one temperature ephezulu ngenxa yokuzonda abetshabi....

Uphile mntakababa ngikufisela inhlanhla nempumelelo
Posted by: Marhethela

Re: Origin yezibongo - 05/25/10 04:19 PM

Kungangcono ngife mtakababa kulokuthi kuthiwe ngilitshabi mina, nakanjani.
Posted by: MHLAHLANDLELA09

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/17/10 06:55 PM

Quote:
Ezakwa Nkala

Nkala!
Mlotshwa!
Maphepha!
Mphanjane!
Sitsh’ esihle
Sokudlel’ amasi nenyama
Abakwanyanga yethwese
Abathwayis’ umuntu ngojojo
Mawela wela
Awel’ umful’ ugcwele
Awuwel’ awuphindelela
Abanyawo zimansense




Bakhona abantu bakoNkala abazibiza Maphosa ngabe bayadlelana lalo uMlotshwa?
njalo bakhona abakoKhanye abazibiza Mlotshwa bayadlelana lale iNkala elandwa lapha na?
Posted by: Mthakathi27

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/17/10 09:16 PM

Originally Posted By: MHLAHLANDLELA09
Quote:
Ezakwa Nkala

Nkala!
Mlotshwa!
Maphepha!
Mphanjane!
Sitsh’ esihle
Sokudlel’ amasi nenyama
Abakwanyanga yethwese
Abathwayis’ umuntu ngojojo
Mawela wela
Awel’ umful’ ugcwele
Awuwel’ awuphindelela
Abanyawo zimansense

* Mwelase
* Mazibuko
* Abaswela inkomo bazuza amabele
* Khonda



Bakhona abantu bakoNkala abazibiza Maphosa ngabe bayadlelana lalo uMlotshwa?
njalo bakhona abakoKhanye abazibiza Mlotshwa bayadlelana lale iNkala elandwa lapha na?
Posted by: Morgan

Re: Origin yezibongo - 07/18/10 12:45 PM

Mina angiyikholwa le into yokuthi oMpofu ngabetshabi. Mina ngingu-Ndlovu yako Gatsheni kodwa sengihlangane labantu besitshabini abathi bangoNdlovu labo. Into engiyicabangayo yikuthi bakhona abantu besingunini abagwinywa ngamatshona kodwa basala belezibongo zesintu. Ngikhumbula oSithole abo Mhlanga abangaShangani ngale e-Situngwiza ukuthi bakhuluma isishona ngoba bakhonangale. Kanti u-Ndabaningi Sithole wayevela ngaphi? Wabhala incwadi ethi "Umvukela wamaNdebele". I Zanu Ndonga yakhe yayosapotwa kuphi? Noma bekhona oMpofu abakhuluma isishona, angicabangi ukuthi they are originally tshabis. Ubutshabi ngumkhuhlane, buyathelelwana! Asikhumbule futhi abetshabi bayadobha noma yisiphi isibongo. Ubezwa nxa sebekhuluma izitemo ukuthi bayakwazi ukushintsha izibongo. Kuqala kungu-Ndlovu besekucina ngesitemo esimangalisayo. Yikuthi ekhaya abantu bathanda uku-interpreter izinto in terms of equivalence. U-zwa umuntu ethi u-Ndlovu umele u-zhou. u-Ndlovu akamelanga u-zhou. Ungu-Ndlovu nje ezimele yedwa. Ukwanile engi-Ndlovu, akadingi ukulinganiswa noma isisekelo. Yikuzama nje ukwakha ubuhlobo obungekho lokuthi abantu basondelelane.I-Mpofu siyayazi ukuthi yinyamazane futhi lona lelogama ali-sound shona vele. Kukhona okukhona. Uma ufuna ukwazi ukuthi umtshabi ungcole kangakanani, buka ukuthi ngesikhathi sokutshayanwa kulomuntu ozibiza colonel Morgan Mzilikazi. Kanti ukuthi Mzilikazi yisibongo vele? U-simba makoni wathi esefuna ivoti wayeseqalile ukuthi ungu-Nyathi. Umgabe kuhlala elinkwa labo-Ngwenya. U-tswangirai wayesesithi uyi-descendant ka-Lobengula. Into yikuthi abetshabi labo ababufuni ubutshabi. Labo bavelelwa yibutshabi and abakwazi lokuthi bengabugeza ngaphi. Njalo nje inhloni zibabulele ngokuba ngabetshabi. Awukaze uzwe umuntu esithi ubiza bani ngeshona yena evele eyilo. Akusiyonto enhle ubutshabi. That is why abantu bakhona be-bitter kangaka. Abafuni ukubizwa mashona. Ungabiza umuntu ngeshona, you are likely to be labelled a 'tribalist'. They know they don't have pride by being themselves. Kubuhlungu ukuba ngumtshabi! Mina ngiyayibonga inhlanhla yokuthi angizange ngizalwe ngingumtshabi.
Posted by: Morgan

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/18/10 12:53 PM

So u-Velaphi Ndlovu we- Inkatha Freedom Party uvela e-Zimbabwe? Ngibuza ngoba uthi oNdlovu ngamahole. Ukuze ube lihole bengicabanga ukuthi kwakufanele ube ngaphansi kukaMzilikazi lapho ayeyakhele khona eZimbabwe. Chaza!
Posted by: Morgan

Re: Origins yezibongo - 07/18/10 01:17 PM

Mina ngingu-Ndlovu uGatsheni. Asikaze sibengamahole. To inform you further read the book by: Nocholas Cope, entitled 'To bind the Nation, Solomon KaDiniZulu and Zulu nationalism, 1913-1933, University of Natal Press, Pietermaritzburg, 19933. After reading it, come back to me and tell me whether uNdlovu, who led the uprising against the whites in 1898 was a hole and also read Carlyn Hamilton's Limits to Invention and tell me ukuthi uNdlovu who was an induna in the royal family of King Shaka was a hole. People, learn to say i don't know if you don't than to say things that are not correct. What is your source ukuthi oNdlovu ngamahole? I am sure the source is your heart and not your head. OMncube bagcwele e-KZN who have never been in Zimbabwe as well as their ancestors.
Posted by: MHLAHLANDLELA09

Re: Origin yezibongo - 07/18/10 02:22 PM

Quote:
Mina umama wami ongizalayo laye ngowakoMpofu. Ngendlela engazingayo mina abakoMpofu ngamashona.


Zitha, hlukanisa umhlobo( kumbe ngithi invelaphi ) to i language yomuntu ayikhulumayo. Njengoba usitsho ukuthi sichithachithekeni kanje emazweni abantwabethu bazoguqula indimi zethu bakhulume lapho abazalwe bakhulela khona kodwa kosala izibongo. I geography vele iyayitshintsha i language yomuntu kodwa umhlobo ungama uthi mpo ngaphandle ma usuke waba li assimilado.I mpofu siyayazi yinyamazana yeSintwini, ingaze ifohlele e eplazini lempandawana thina sosala siyibiza impofu.Inyamazana abathi yimpofu yini vele ngesishona.

Hlolisisa imbali ka Soshangane lo Zwangendaba uzobona ukuthi amaNguni are scattered in the southern and south-east of africa, and ngoba bathe gqagqa you cant expect them to mantain Nguni language.The tell tell sign is the surname, name and probaby customs ( which may be different or a hybrid of the communties around).As humans beings we must conform as part of adaptation and communication is key in any community. Ngisonta le sinzizwa enye ngeyakoSibiya umzala wayo ngokaHlatshwayo, njalo balamabizo esiNdebelende kodwa abazi ngitsho u A wesiNdebele. Kodwa izangelo zalo okaSibiya sifana xhathu lezikagogokamama wami wako Godlwayo yena owayenguMswazi.And all their children have Ndebele names but speak deep Chipinge shona.I suppose according to zim classification and grand plan these are tshonas, abayazi igugurahundi kabayazi ,igrandplan ukuthi imikanjani, abakwazi ukuhlukunyezwa emgwaqweni ngoba you cant speak tshona like me.They go to Harare and claim to be tshabians just as we do in Hillbrow where we pretend to be from a Nyukhasele or e Mgungundlovu.

Basically ngamaNguni la achithwa ngumfecane njengoba umgaxa esichithile nje, ingane zethu will end up speaking in tongues.
Posted by: Zithazemkhonto

Re: Origin yezibongo - 07/19/10 08:59 AM


Ngiyabonga!
Posted by: mtumaseli

Re: Origins yezibongo - 08/11/10 10:35 AM

Sanibona bafowethu nodadewethu.

Ngiyathokoza ukuhlangana neqebu elazi ngomlando wezibongo nglendlela. into enhle kakhulu engethemba ukuthi angeke isabalale nje.

Kade ngizama ukucwaninga imvelaphi yesibongo sakwaShozi nesaka Hlongwa. Ingabe ukhona onolwazi noma olungakanani ngalezizibongo (kakhulukazi esakwaShozi). uHlongwa nginalo ulwazi oluncane.

Ngingabonga kakhulu
Posted by: Ndabezitha

Re: Origins yezibongo - 10/24/10 02:54 PM

Zihlobo.. kungabe ekhona owazi imbali nezangelo zako Masuku
Posted by: kwenza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/26/13 10:36 PM

wena ukwazelaphi izibongo zakoMoyo njengoba wena ulishona ngamanga aluhlaza ulahlekisa abantu njenga masonto enu lawa athi ma sewukhotheme ulidimoni,Do your research kahle ubuze thina abanikazi besibongo thina oVumabalanda singamalozwi nt shona wena ungubani udabukaphi ziveze jaha..
Posted by: kwenza

Re: Origins yezibongo - 03/26/13 10:42 PM

ngabakwabani amandebele Mhla ngoba ngathi wazi konke kodwa ulahlekisa abantu?
Posted by: Spade omnyama

Re: Origins yezibongo - 06/17/13 10:29 AM

Nanzi ezika Vuyo Mbuli:

Hadebe!
Mthimkhulu!
Bhungane!
Ndleb' ezinhle zombili!!!