Scrape Lobola

Posted by: Nqindi ka Mgandani

Scrape Lobola - 06/08/02 12:41 AM

I know a lot of prospective businessmen will be screaming for my head!Uma ngingaphambanisi ilobola kwakuyindlela kamkwenyana yokubonga abakwakibozala ngokumondlela isimomondiya sakhe.Kulezi insuku inengi lithengisa abantwana, bakuhlaba baze bakuhlabe leyischool fees.Mina mhlazana ngiza lobola ngizacela ireceipt legurantee.If the marriage doesn't survive 5yrs I want 95% of my money back.Nxa engakwazi ukupheka 10% back.
Posted by: Mbodlomani

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/10/02 10:12 PM

I think it would be impossible to scrap lobola, kodwa we have to try and go back to the original principles which you mentioned..abantu bayekele ukuthengisa abantwana befaka lama Cell Phone! <p>Okunye njalo ongakhulumanga ngakho yikuthi kulotsholwa abantwana, inzalo.<p>Sewake wayizwa na le eyabelungu okuthiwa yi"Pre-Nuptial Agreement".<p> <A HREF="http://www.smartagreements.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/pro/lp70.htm?E+scstore" TARGET=_blank>http://www.smartagreements.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/pro/lp70.htm?E+scstore</A> <p> <A HREF="http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2001/000005.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.equityfeminism.com/articles/2001/000005.html</A>
Posted by: sidunusile

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/22/02 06:14 AM

Lobola have to srapped out, we can't keep on buying a creation that God created for us. People are acting as if women are for sell, if they do not want to give birth to baby girls then they should stop. What if you pay lobola then you discover that the girl is unable to give birth can you claim the money back, no, so if its a no then stop selling your daughters they are not for sell and you don't own them.
Posted by: hlathi81

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/28/04 11:02 PM

Nqindi ka Mgandani lo Sidunusile are you chaps serious that lobola should be scraped kumbe liyadlala kuphela?

Ukhona yini oyaziyo ihistory yoku lobola esincede?

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'tshela mina sibaloye'
Posted by: Hlabiso

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/29/04 03:26 AM

Mina mahlabezulu angivumelani lomqondo wokuthi sesule iLobolo.Kuyisintu sethu thina abakaMthwakazi ukuthi sibonge lo othe wakuzalela isithandwa sakho umngane wakho lize lahlukaniswe yikufa.Ngakho abakuzalela igugu lakho leluba lakho lomduduzi womoya wakho uzabe uzaba bonga ngani ngokukuzalela lumuntu oqakatheke kangaka empilweni lemoyeni/nhliziyweni yakho????????
Nxa ulobolo awuthengi lutho ngakho ke abasaphethe isiko lokulobolisa bayakwazi ukuthi balobolise kuhle ukwenzela ukuthi umntanabo angayidubeka emzini wakhe omutsha.Laba abalobolisa okwedlulisileyo bayabe bengelathando lomntanabo okwamampela ngoba pho umkhwenyana uyabe ezayithatha ngaphi imali yokuthi ondle lumakoti ngoba phela ethintithile izikhwama zakhe zonke.
Njalo ilobolo alikhutshwa lonke umntwana engakatholi ingane kuyazila lokho osekusenzakala lezinsuku ukuthi abanye bathi 'owethu awumthathi ungaqedanga ukulobola' hayi akunjalo.
Umkhwenyana angakhipha ukangaziwe, amalobolo(ijazi,ingubo/ijali lejagi kamamazala,)useqedile ke ukulobola usengazocela umtshado.Kumbe nxa kungulo ozevela esevele esone umntwana usezabhadala imali yokumosha(idamage phela) umntwana kuqala kungakabizelwana amalobolo.
Lokhu okwama cellphones hayi sikubonela kwabetshabi hayi abakaMthwakazi.
Lapha ngikhulumela kwesengikubonile kusenziwa emizini esaqhuba isintu esipheleleyo.
Nxa sekulotsholiwe ke sekungacolwa umalukazana lomkhwenyana vice versa.
Posted by: Hlabiso

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/29/04 03:33 AM

Sidunusile mina kangivumelani lawe sihlolo lakancane.Kanti uzathi owesintwana nguye njani ongazaliyo????????Ukungazali kukabili mzala indoda layo ikhona ukuthi ingenelisi ukuzala pho besekugconwa owesintwana khona kuyindoda engelanzalo.
Kuyatholakala ukuthi kungabi lenzalo kudala abadala babedingela ijaha omunye khonale kwabontombi ukuthi azenceda umfowabo nxa kubonakale ukuthi ngowesintwana ongazaliyo kumbe ujaha laye adingelwe umfowabo azemzalela kodwa lokhu kwakwande ukuthi kube yinto yomdeni kodwa kulezi insuku sekutshiyene, njalo yikho amalobolo ayengabhadalwa wonke babekhangelela izehlakalo ezifana lalezi ezokuswelakala kwenzalo.
Posted by: Hlabiso

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/29/04 03:39 AM

Sidunusile mina kangivumelani lawe sihlolo lakancane.Kanti uzathi owesintwana nguye njani ongazaliyo????????Ukungazali kukabili mzala indoda layo ikhona ukuthi ingenelisi ukuzala pho besekugconwa owesintwana khona kuyindoda engelanzalo.
Kuyatholakala ukuthi kungabi lenzalo kudala abadala babedingela ijaha omunye khonale kwabontombi ukuthi azenceda umfowabo nxa kubonakale ukuthi ngowesintwana ongazaliyo kumbe ujaha laye adingelwe umfowabo azemzalela kodwa lokhu kwakwande ukuthi kube yinto yomdeni kodwa kulezi insuku sekutshiyene, njalo yikho amalobolo ayengabhadalwa wonke babekhangelela izehlakalo ezifana lalezi ezokuswelakala kwenzalo.
KuNqindi pho nxa kungowe ke owenze leyo marriage yehluleka uku last 5years ufuna abakwenuzala bakwenzeni ke bona????Njalo nxa wena uzakwehluleka ukundla imuli yakho (ungathengi ukudla endlini lapha uthi umfazi akuphekeleni ke?Umfazi wakho lo kumele wena umtshengise ukuthi wena uthanda ukudla okunjani njalo okuphekwa njani.Kanti vele wena uzaze umthatheleni wena usazi ukuthi akakwazi ukupheka?Nxa ubona esehluleka umthathe umhambise esikolo sokufundela ukupheka.Into eqakathekileyo ukuze ungabi lamaphutha wonke lawa emzini wakho azi ukuthi ukhulume njalo ubonisane lomunye wakho yiwo umuthi kuphela kurelationship mzala..
Posted by: ntozabo

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/29/04 02:39 PM

Hayi ke madoda nithini ma nithi makukhutshwe ilobolo , silishukuthi abantwana badliwe mahala, liphinde libayeke, mina ngiyaphikisana lani ngoba ilobolo ngilithatha njenje insurance yomfazi. kuvamile ukuthi umuntu elobole emva kwalokho exotshe umfazi kanye labantwana ngenxa yomfazi omutsha. litsho ukuthi ngubani ozobheka izingane zenu lezo ezimuke lomfazi. ngithi phambili ngelobolo ngoba yilo elizakhulisa abantwabenu elibaxotshileyo.kuyenzeka njalo ukuba indoda ife itshiye imuli abakwabo besale bebutha impahla zendo bethi ngezomtanabo ikanti lowo muntu ubezele, esephindela kwabo ziyamsiza njalo inkomo lezo ukukhulisa lokufundisa abantwana. ngiyindoda kodwa ngithi ilobolo phambili ....tshayani zandla phela
Posted by: ntozabo

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/29/04 03:50 PM

sizabona
Posted by: ntozabo

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/29/04 03:52 PM

asazi
Posted by: Mabila

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/29/04 09:53 PM

Aluba siyavota mina bengizavotela ukuthi asuswe forth with amalobolo. Nxa uthethwe yindonda engahlalwa yimpukane emlonyeni, ayasinda amalobolo. Mbinjana mbijana, "phela ngakulobola". Ungatshaywa likhanda "phela ngakulobola" Habe.........! Ngizaphila impilo yami yonke ngibhadala lawo malobolo? Nxa ngalotsholwa 15years ago ange 1000 dollars, kambe yimali yini bgensuku zanamuhla engingabe ngikhunjuzwa ngayo nsukuzonke. True kubo Baba abanika igunya, kubomama yikupika. Wena usungowendlini usulotsholwe, ubaba setshakala phandle labo spox!Hatshi Bo.

I just think that amalobolo is the wrong emphasis emitshadweni yesintwini. Aluba siqinisa ama survival skills omendo for both male and females. Abesifazana bayalwaywa bahlalelwe phansi sibili yimuli yonke. What is the equavalent kubobaba? they are also gaining a new family in their in-laws and need to know how to cope? Men are supposed to take a leap of faith in this very complicated new life without anyform of preparation at all. We need as a people to look at that. Ngima lapha okwanamuhla. Mina ngifuni kulotsholwa. Ozakwenza angangitsheli!
Posted by: uxolo

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/29/04 10:53 PM

Lobola should be scrapped as it has lost its meaning, we(women)are being sold by our families for material and financial gains, when there are problems in the marriage we are told emendweni kuyaqiniselwa. I have 3 daughters and if they plan to marry I will not sell them to any man just as long as they are happy.I have a daughter born before I met and married my husband,my dad stopped me sending my daughter to meet her family because uyise kalobolanga and when he wanted to he was told ukuthi ulihole so there was no room for him in our family it meant my daughter lost out on growing up with her dad and building a bond with her dad and her dad's family.Scrap lobola the only people benefiting are men or else thina abafazi WILL REFUSE TO GIVE BIRTH TO GIRL BABIES nowadays itechnology is advanced.
Posted by: dukuduku

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/30/04 12:55 AM

Bafowethu ngibona angathi sesilahleka njengesizwe. Isizwe esilahla amasiko aso sijinga sintule nje sibe siphetshulwa ngumoya kuthi kungabuya lokhu yithi laba sesinamathele kubuye lokhuya yithi laba sesingenile. Nxa singenza lokhu siyabe sesifana lamaShona esabathi ngothathekile ngenxa yokuthi ngabantu abaphongukuthathela izinto phezulu. Ngombono wami izinto zama cellphone lezi lanilani zivame emashoneni kithi balutshwana nxa bekhona abakwenzayo lokhu. Amalobolo aqakathekile esintwini ngezizatho lezi:

nxa ulobola uhlenga abantwabakho, ngezinye indlela ayisibongo kulabo abakuzalela umama wabantwabakho;

nxa ulobola uyabe ubonga umamazala wakho ngokukuzalela umkakho yikho umamazala elenkomo yakhe phakathi kwalezo oyabe ulobole ngazo;

kulabo abalokhu besalandela ukhololwakithi amalobolo aqakathekile ngoba yiwo indlela okuthiwa ngabadala ihlanganisa abaphansi abezimuli lezi ezilabantu abayabe sebetshada.

Okunye okumele sikunanzelele yikuthi imali lezi ezibizwayo kazilingani ngitsho lalokhu okwakubizwa kudala. Singabuza amakhehla azasitshela ukuthi kwakuvame ukubizwa inkomo eziyisithupha kusiya kwezilitshumi. Manje khathesi njengoba inkomo zethu sezigcinwa kuboBarclays laboStandard ziyimalini inkomo ezilitshumi. Ngaleyo ndlela yokuthi inkomo ezilitshumi ngizibona zilesisindo esedlula i4 million Zimkwacha ongabe uyibizelwe angiboni ukuthi singathi amalobolo asephezulu kulawekadeni. Phambili ngesintu sakithi
Posted by: Bhudaza

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/30/04 11:14 PM

Kodwa phela indaba le etshiwo nguwe Mabila ivela nganhlandla zombili. Ungekela ukulobola umama uyakutshela ukuthi kawulobolanga, ngakho ke kawungeke umtshele lutho kumbe umcele njengomkakho ukuthi akwenzele lutho. Ngike ngakubona lokhu mina ngamehlo ami.

Abangalotsholwanga bafuna ululotsholwa kuthi labo abalotsholiweyo bakubona kuyisisindo.

Dukuduku ukhulumile sibili ngiyakuhlonipha.
Posted by: nomandebele

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/30/04 11:31 PM

[Uxolo banewethu labo dade njalo.Imiqondo yenu lonke iyezwakala kodwa bengicel lingivumele kengitsho umbono wami.Mina ngithi ilobolo liqakathekile kakhulu kithi thina bantu abansundu.Akukhethekile ukuthi ungowesigundwaneni kumbe owakwathwakazi.Kulisiko lethu and our identity as a people.Ye kubi ukuthi sekuphenduke kwaba yi investment ukuzala amantombazane.Kanti phela njengoba kulezinsuku sekubizwa ngama £ lama $US, kodwa basekhona abagcina isiko.Ye kudala kwakubizwa inkomo ezilitshumi or whatever but kodwa bakithi ake litsho ukuthi kathezi ithokazi lenkomo libiza malini? Kambe akufani lokubiza imali yodwa?Ngoba nxa inkomo eyodwa iyi £700.000, ezingu 10yimalini?Kanti phela ubaba inkomo lezo angathi uzifuna zihamba uzazibeka ngaphi lokhu weqiwa yi land redisribution?

Okwesibili bakithi bodadewethu kuyangidanisa kakhulu ukuthi so many years after Beijing lukhe singananzeleli ukuthi our worst enerny iz so called Rights as women.Ilobola has nopthing to makin women fell cheap or fell like bought items.Actually if the truth be told it should make you proud ukuthi there is some one who loves and values u enough to think you are worth him thanking your parents for !Kambe ngubani ofuna ukutshaya amapoto for the rest of their lives? Who respects that?Besifazane balithi sona izinto ngokufuna uku adopt other people's cultures all in the name of modernization.I think we need to define this word as it iz so overused and wrongly for that matter.
Yikho mina ngithi masingalahli isiko bo!Phela kumele njalo sikhangele ukuthi abadala abangeke babize imali eza bankrupt umkwenyana.Liyazi the truth be told phela inkomo zelobolo azi khitshwa kanye.Ngenxa yokuthi lani bakhwenyan lihamba lile a point to prove eg libuye ngama Lexus angu 4 between 7 people, all fly then ubaba abesesithi ufuna inkomo 13 , 3 ezihambayo ezinye lezi akuhlabe $1million eyodwa usukhala.Kanti yona i £50 million iseseyini kulezi nsuku.

Asazi ngingabe ngiyaphambanisa kodwa mina ngithi into zonke ziya ngokuthi ungubani.Njalo mina yimi engiyabe nigasazi ngesimakanjani esikhwameni sikaduduwami end ngi yabatshela ngekhaya ukuthi hayi chelesani!Phela uyazi ngeke ubaba athi wena ubophe ibhulugwe lakho ngowaya athi ufuna icell phone, i £100million and the like! Laye uzabiza kufanelane lawe.Phela akula fixed £ rate yelobolo!

Asazi zihlobo!
Posted by: Hitshi-Hitshi

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/30/04 04:02 PM

Mina ngifika ngiziqhenye komalumami ngithi umama walotsholwa nge nkomo ezingu 14 ezeza lamathole azo, uthini? Labo abafuna ukuyatheza qondani egangani lapho okuthezwa khona ubuyele ngekhaya. Thina sithi kaziphume, sizithinte sizozingenisa egumeni zibhotshe ubulongwe kuthiwe zingenile ezikabani.

Esintwini bakhona abebesendiselwa loba bengalalutho, ubaba akhiphe izinkomo ziphelekezele intombi emendweni. Nxa ukhonjwe ngumntaneNduna zazisibanenge izinkomo zakhona, nxa engumntane Nkosi amatshumi amahlanu, phela kezi ngemacansini umama uzalobuntu, lobuhlobo bendlini enkulu. Lamajaha azazalwa lapha, alegazi lesikhosini. Nxa udade esithi mina angifuni kulotsholwa uyangethusa, ngoba ungitshela ukuthi akula lutho ongalulangazelela lapha I have nothing to offer.

Nxa ijaha lizimisele ukukhipha izinkomo ezingamatshumi amabili lanhlanu, uyabe kakuthandi, uyabe ufike wazehlulekela nje dadewethu. Izinto zonke ezitholakala lula zilahlwa lula, yikho nje kuwestern world, idivorce yang'khona, is swift. If you can easily walk into my house I will not be confident with you becaouse you can easily walk out. So I will strategically keep a small house just in case. Suyathini manje? Also note that in the western world, the main key bringing people together is sex, everything is secondary.

Kwethu its defferent:
Uma ngiyibheka intombi, ngibheka onina , labogogo bayo. Angiboni yona kuphela ngibona inzalo yayo ngithi izintombi ezizaphuma lapha, kumbe amajaha akhona bazakutsho bathi usengenile okazibani. Ngifuna ukutshiya isizwe which is hereditary strong, beautiful, intelligent and brave, so amatraits akonina kumele a complemente engilawo. And must be thankful kwabo.

Nxa uvele uphuma okunothwe khona uthole intombi ebayangeni, wawuvel ukhiphe zibenengi ukuze labo bahle bafanele le inhlangano, kepha ukuze uqonde intombi enjena, kuyabe kukhona okukhona ngale intombi, ngaphandle ezobelethela umzawakhe abantwana.
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/30/04 10:33 PM

Bafowethu

Lapha i Zwangendaba akula nto elingayitsho. Nxa ngilalela imibono, ngiyibona iyiziqondiso zosiko lwakithi.

Ngingengeza kancane nje ngithi, ekadeni ilobola lalisenzelwa indlela ezehlukeneyo:
1. Ukubonisa ubugugu baloyo olotsholwayo.
2. Ukubonga abazali, ikakhulu unina kamalukazana nge nkomo yoHLANGA.
3. Ukuhlenga abantwana, ngoba uma ungalobolanga, ngesintu babotshiwe laba bantu ba gazi lakho, ukuhlenga yikubakhupha kuleso sibopho.
4. Ukuhlanganisa izizwe lezo zombili, ngoba akusi kwemuli kuphela, kuhlanganisa zonke izihlobo zenu lobabili elithetheneyo.

Mina ngiyalibonga zihlobo ngolwazi lolu esilufundisanayo esigxingini sobulembu sethu.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Ndukuzibomvu

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/31/04 03:34 AM

Mthwakazi:

The progress of a traditional marriage arrangement was/is characterised by a series of elaborate reciprocal sacrifices and exchange of gifts. Amalobolo [amabheka] are an integral part of this process. In other words, without amalobolo, the marriage process would be "incomplete" [in the traditional sense]. Another way to look at it is this: you need four [not less] wheels to get your automobile up and running. There's a reason why an automobile has four wheels, it's not just artistic work. There's a lot of physics and engineering behind it. However, I do suppose that a marriage can "work" and last a life time, in the absence of amabheka. And I'm sure there are countless couples these days who don't even bother about izinto zamabheka. It's become more or less a matter of choice, which is understandable. That said, just because one has made a choice not to engage in ezamalobolo, doesn't mean one then has a right to go out and proclaim that amalobolo should be erased from our culture. It would be like changing the rules of a game to suit your own skill level! That's scandalous, I think. Anyway, I digress. I think we should focus on the term "amabheka". ESiNtwini, there's always logic [rhyme and reason] behind nomenclature. This is not to say that I don't understand the concerns being raised about amalobolo esimanjemanje. Of course, there'll always be people, unfortunately, who abuse the system and tarnish its value. Using amalobolo for profiteering yihlazo. Akusona iSiNtu sakwethu, cha.

At this point, I think it is worth reflecting on traditional vs contemporary marriage arrangements. To this end, here then is a narration, by uMaNgubane, of the progress of a traditional marriage arrangement she witnessed [in particular, note the reciprocal character of the exchange of gifts, something which we seem to have lost nowadays]:

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The progress of marriage arrangements is marked by sacrifices and exchange of gifts. And each sacrifice or gift takes the arrangements a step forward. I shall concern myself with animals killed as sacrifices or as gifts, and not with the other forms of gifts.

a. The bride's father at his home killed a goat "to accept the negotiator of the marriage" (eyokuvuma umkhongi). His brother sprinkled the gall on the negotiator's right-hand index finger.

b. On a latter occasion, the negotiator with a party from the groom's people brought a variety of gifts for the bride's people. The bulk of the gifts (izibizo: the bride's mother lists or names the presents or gifts she wants for herself) were for the bride's mother. On this occasion, the bride's father slaughtered a goat to honour the groom's mother. Such a goat is referred to as uhudo because of the nursing care the woman gave to her son, the groom, as a baby.

The negotiator presented the bride's mother with the ubikibiki goat (bikibiki is anything of shaky and quivering nature, such as jelly). It signifies the "shaky and quivering" state of a woman's stomach after giving birth to her child.

The negotiator's wife, on the same occasion, also presented a goat to the bride, to signify that she should dress up her hair in the special style (inkehli) worn by married women.

The bride in turn presented a goat to the negotiator's wife, in appreciation of the latter's gift to her, which marked her new status.

All the goats exchanged on this day were slaughtered and eaten. The groom's people took a portion of their meat back home.

c. Later on [the marriage negotiations had been going on for seven years before this wedding took place!) the bride and her age-mates took food gifts (umbondo) to the groom's home. Two goats known as indlakudla were slaughtered - one for the bride and the other for her companion. The goat enabled both the bride and her bridesmaid [the bridesmaid is a girl in her early teens, usually related to the bride. She remains with the bride in her new home for some weeks after the marriage] to eat the food of the groom's people, which was otherwise taboo to them. The gall of the two goats was sprinkled on the index finger of the bride's companion.

d. On a later occasion, the groom paid a special ceremonial visit in the company of his age-mates and girls of his locality. A goat was slaughtered to enable him to eat the food of the bride's home. The gall was sprinkled on the negotiator. The goat is termed indlakudla.

e. At some other occasion, the bride's father performed a nubility ceremony for her. He killed an ox and a goat, as well as another goat from her mother's brother. These are the sacrificial chants (to kwabaphansi) that were recited by the father:

Nangu umntwana wenu uMalezi.
Ngiyamemulisa.
Akube mhlophe konke.
Izindlela zakhe zibe mhlophe.
Kukhanye, abone.
Kudeduke umnyama.
Abe nezinhlanhla.
Azale abantu.
Aphile kahle.
Kube mhlophe konke empilweni yakhe.

The gall of the three animals was sprinkled on her, and the gall bladders were inflated and worn on the head by her during the ceremony. When the ceremony was over, the inflated bladders were carefully kept to be worn again on her wedding day. The gall bladder of the ox was pierced and worn by her as a wristlet (bracelet). The ceremony is known as ukwemula.

f. A few days before the wedding, the bride's father and his brothers went to the groom's home to "see" the lobolo cattle before they were transferred to the bride's home. The groom's father slaughtered a goat for the bride's father. The gall was sprinkled on her father's brother. The goat is known as ilongwe.

g. On the eve of the bride's leaving home to be married, her father slaughtered a goat known as eyokuncama. (ncama: to eat before commencing on a long journey [umendo]). This goat was intended to report her departure to the ancestors, and also to provide her with something to eat during her wedding ceremonies, as she was not supposed to eat any of the meat slaughtered on that occasion.

h. When the bridal party arrived, the groom's people gave them a goat called eyokucola (ukucola: to give a feast in honour of the bride). The gall was sprinkled on her companion, who also wore on her head the inflated bladder.

i. On the first day of the wedding, a cow was presented by the groom to the bridal party. It is known as eyesihlahla, because during the early part of the day, the party sat outside the home under a tree where they cooked and ate the meat.

j. On the second day, a cow provided by the bride's father to the groom's mother was slaughtered. The beast is known as eyezibhoma [which simply means "chunks" of meat].

k. On the same day, the bride's people killed a goat and placed it in a large basin after piercing it to remove the gall, which was sprinkled on her by her father. She carried it, unskinned and unopened, in the basin, and presented it to her mother-in-law. The latter removed the basin from the bride's head and in return gave her a string of white beads. This ritual is known as isethulo ("to pay tribute, to make a present of respect"). The carcase of such a goat is known as isinyikanyika ("complicated affair, matter difficult of solution, something requiring disentangling").

l. The most important beast of all was also killed on the second day. It was a cow known sometimes as eyesikhumba, as its hide is used to make a skirt (isidwaba) for the bride. Another, more appropriate, name is eyokwendisa. This beast was, as is the custom, provided by the bride's father. It was slaughtered in the groom's cattle byre by the negotiator, who used a special ancestral spear belonging to the groom's people [The negotiator was the groom's mother's brother]. The groom's mother sprinkled the gall on the bride's index finger and big toe, and herself wore the pierced and deflated gall bladder as a wristlet. There are other several rituals surrounding this beast, which I can't recount here. The carcase is bisected, and one half is given to the groom's people, the other being retained by the bride's. It is this beast that is said to render the woman married.

m. Later in the (second) day, the bride's father went to the negotiator's home, where the groom's father had provided a goat known as uthuli lomkhongi (because during the period of negotiations, he walked to and fro, between the two families). This goat is said to thank both the negotiator and the bride's father for bringing the negotiations to a happy conclusion.

n. On the third day, only the bride's age-mates remained. They were given a goat to kill, skin, cook, and eat to mark the consummation of the marriage. The goat is known as umeke (to split open, to deflower).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sacrifices given by one group for the other are easily converted to money instead of a slaughtered animal, provided that the recipients are prepared to accept the money. But where the sacrifice is for a member of the group, giving money would be equivalent to giving it to oneself. So, if people are unable to provide the necessary sacrifice, they offer incense to the ancestors, tell them the reasons for omitting the sacrifice, and express willingness to put the matter right at some future time.

UNjingalwazi uVilakazi uthi yena:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Throughout the negotiations, these gifts are anticipated because they are institutionalised, and each gift or goat begets another gift or goat. It is not uncommon to find that one of the parties requests that certain gifts should be cut out altogether. The request is often granted because, in any case, none of the gifts are unilateral.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It may seem peculiar that the elaborate wedding rituals seem to be primarily concerned with the bride and her mother-in-law. The wedding beast is sacrificed to integrate the bride into the lineage. The bride and her mother-in-law are the two people who have "travelled a long journey" (ukwenda) to perpetuate the lineage of their affines. The bride has come to continue where the mother-in-law has stopped; she has come to further the reproduction. The isinyikanyika goat, which the bride presents to her mother-in-law, suggests that she's giving herself as an understudy to the latter, who will orientate her in the routine and practices of the family.

It must be mentioned also that a married woman has the status more of a mother than a wife. She retains her clan name, and in this sense she is someone who has come to her affinal lineage to be a mother. It is therefore not surprising that marriage rites are focussed on the bride and her mother-in-law. They are the mothers of the lineage, on whom the continuity of the lineage is dependent.

Angibonge.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/31/04 01:45 PM

Ndukuzibomvu

Hheshe wena weLembe!

Phansi-phezulu, iyaphuz' inkukhu.
Mina kaSomkhele ngenelisekile kulomthombo wakho wolwazi olunzulu. Kuhle ukubona intshisekelo enjena ekuqondiseni izigwegwe emasikweni akwethu.

Kepha ngithanda ukwazi: kazi bese ushonephi wena weSilo? Awu nkos' yami, wahamb' umlibe nje? Awusabhali nhlobo laph' esigungwini! Unqabile ngempela. Mina besengithi ululahlile manje usapho lukaMntungwa enkangala yokungazi ngezamasiko alo.

Ngiyacela, ngiyanxusa kodwa nkosi yami ngithi: Vela bo, gqama mnumzane njengayizolo! Qhubeka uphosa kulesi sivivane somlando wenhlanhla bo! Ngiyakujabulela ukuloba kwakho, okukhombisa injula nobumnandi bolwimi lukaMageba. Abafana njengawe siyabadinga wethu.

Allelujah.

Unwele olude kuwena.

Nangomuso.

uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa.
Inkwali yenkosi.
Inxangiphilile.
KwelikaMthaniya.
Posted by: xhiba

Re: Scrape Lobola - 05/31/04 07:29 PM

Ekuhle
an interesting post and more than that, a lesson i could not have gotten that easily from anyone especially with the detail that Ndukuzibomvu provided. Siyakubonga.
Ngiyintombazana eyazalelwa ngaphandle komendo njalo kangizange ngihlengwe. This to me fans the flames and desire to practise as well as incorporate the practices of our tradition in my life.Me being a modern woman doesn't mean that i want to ditch the traditional practises as they are what bind us as a nation of Mthwakazians. Bhekani ezinye izizwe njengaMakula. Bayakwazi ukugcina amasiko akibo (abesifazana lamadoda) bephinde bebemodern. Thina kusehlulani pho....Kasingalahli amasiko ethu ngoba singavele sikucabange ukugcina amanye kodwa kulahlwe amanye, pho abantwana babantwabethu kabasoze vele bazi ngazolezo izinto ngoba kuyabekuqale ngathi ukuwalahla amasiko ethu.
Ngilimelele lelolanga engizakwenda khona ngoba ngilesifiso sokwenza konke okuyizintwanyana okubaliswe nguNdukuzibomvu. Asazi kumbe ngizaphumelela ngoba yinto enhle njalo ebukekayo ukugcina isiko elihle. Kanti abendulo abakithi babelesikhathi sokucitha bephonguhlala becabanga imikhuba na? Kangikholwa...kutsho ukuthi amasiko lemikhuba yakithi are there for a reason.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/03/04 02:48 PM

Bandla lakwethu

Nina bakaMzilikazi
Nina bakaMashobane
Isangqumba sashay&#8217;ikhuhle kumasalamuzi,
Sabhuq&#8217;icole kumilingo yaMakalanga
Umningi kawuvusan&#8217; umhlwenga,
Umningi kaligebisanga ikhanda&#8217;
Ukuba waligebisa kwaqubuk&#8217; udaka
Ayeyosala dengwane amaShona emafukwini!

Kusenjalo nje, ngithanda ukucacisa okuthile, qede ngibuze njalo okuthile.

Siyazi sonke ukuthi isizwe sakwaMthwakazi siyingxubevange. Kuhlangene izinhlobo-nhlobo zabantu ezakha lesisizwe. Ngamanqampu, kunabeZansi, Abenhla namaHole. Ngesingami, imikhuba yalezizinhlobo yehlukile, noma beyisizwe sinye nje. Kubalulekile ukuthelelana amanzi.

Ma ngibukisisa, okaNdukuzibomvu uchaze kabanzi ngesiko lamalobolo nokukhongisa ngasohlangothini lwesiZulu, izizukulwane zoMthaniya. Ingcazelo yakhe ixhantele kakhulu kuNjingalwazi Vilakazi (uBinda, uMphephethwa, uSihlase!). Kwaze kwakuhle we mma!

Kodwa ke, buka lokhu: kusizwe sakwaMthwakazi, akulindelekile neze ukuthi umuntu, mhlawumbe, oyiVenda, uMsotho noma iKalanga alandele lemikhuba yesiZulu. Wobe uyalahleka ngempela. Noma mina kaNdonga ngithole okuningi kulemikhuba okuzongisiza kolwami uhlangothi, bengithanda ukuzwa uhlangothi lwabanye laba (amaKalanga, Venda, Sotho etc) ukuze kuthi, mhlasimbe ma kwenzeka, ngethuka sengiqomise owesiKalangeni, ngibe nolwazi olunzulu ekuganeni kwami. Angeze ngathanda ma ngethuka ngihlangana nensumansune emini ka bha!; imilingo yemikhuba engingayazi.

Sizani bo. Injobo enhle ithungelwa ebandla. Okwehlul&#8217; amadoda kuyabikwa. Inyathi ibuzwa kwabaphambili. Ingan&#8217; engakhal&#8217; ifela embelekweni.

Mazibuyele emasisweni Mabandla kaMjokwane kaNdaba, nina bakaPhunga noMageba.

UMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa.
Inkwali yenkosi.
Inxangiphilile.
KwelikaMthaniya.
Posted by: Ndebele phaqa

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/23/04 09:47 AM

Ngiyabingelela zihlobo zami zonke, Mina nginguMahlangu, igodonga lomsundulo munye vo!!!! Ngithanda ukuphawula kancane ngalensumansumana yendaba.Ngibonge konke engikufunde la ngoba kunginikeza ugqozi lobuntu bami futhi kungiphoqelele ukuthi nami ngikhulume labakwethu.
Bafowethu Nabodade mina ngithi Phambili ngelobolo emuva ngokuthengisa osisi bethu.Ilobolo liletha isithunzi esikhulu kithi sobabili mina nezakwami.Into embi yindlela amalobolo asesenziwa ngakhona.The idea was to unite and create a permanent relationship between the two far-away families BUT The EXECUTION of this ideal customary activity is appalling to say the least.Nowadays sesibulawa siphila - kubizwe amacellphone etc etc.Thats being crazy to me.My wish is that all the participants of this forum should make the changes/difference in our areas of influence.Mina ngishade kwaMdlongwa ngiyabahlonipha laba abantu.Ngaya lapho baqoqana bonke abobobabomdala nabobabomncane namakhosikazi abo bonke.Sangena endlini enkulu phela nami ngangilobabakazi nomalume.Isintu simnadi bafowethu.Yaxoxwa indaba Batsho abakoMdlongwa (Bangamakholwa futhi)ukuthi thina esintwini sangakithi asibizi ngamanqaphunqaphu i.e isivula mlomo amajazi amangenekhaya sivele sibinze kanye sogoqele zonke izinto bakwenza lokho sakhala ngokuthi inkomo zangakithi zihlala eStanard Bank noBarclays bazwisisa(Babe bize izinkomo nje kuphela -my secret- ngabizwelwa inkomo ezilitsumi nanye le eyodwa ingekamamazala sacela nje baphula eyodwa asizange sakhala kakhulu ngoba vele imali yenkomo ababeyifuna yayiphansi kwemarket value.Ngiyahlonipheka komamazala laye uyahlonipheka ngakibo langakithi ngoba ephume ilanga libalele.Asiqondiseni amagwegwe lapho esikwanisa khona kodwa isiko maliyephambili.ilobolo lenza inkosikazi izizwe ilesibinbi lokuzethemba ngomuzi wayo.

Ngiyabonga
Posted by: sthutha

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/24/04 11:56 PM

Mtongenakudla,

Uyazama mpela ukuba ngomunye wamaZulu.UNdukuzibomvu usipha i-history yokulobola lezindlela okwakusenziwa ngazo, aphinde achaze njalo ukuqakatheka kwe-cultural norm le.Uyafundisa njalo uyalaya.Lokhu akutsho ukuthi khona kanye eNkandla lakwezinye indawo zakwaZulu balilandela isiko as elaborately as Nduku explained.

Culture is dynamic and moves with the times and therefore ukulobola okukhona kuzo zonke inhlobo ezilobolisayo kuya ngokutshintsha okukhethwe yileso sizwe.Ukulobola esKhalangeni akwehlukananga ngitsho lalokho okwenziwa ngeminye imihlobo elobolisayo hatshi ethengisayo abantwababo.


Your deliberate and naive attempts do draw unclear lines btwn abantu bakoMthwakazi on the basis of their being enhla ,hole or zansi is mischeviuos to say the least.You may be well aware that when Mzilikazi arrived in Zimbabwe he never fought the regional King Mambo but incorporated some of the Kalanga norms and values.Why do you think that was the case?Why did he have to attack the Shona groups and yet he chose to live with Mambo if he was another of the Shonas?Yes we the Kalanga are aware of your hatred against our people and your sly attempts to demean us,but unfortunately it will never stick coz people [real people]of Mthwakazi do not come that low.

What is your interest in Mthwakazi issues if you are more happier in Mtubatuba where you have found your kith and kin.On another front you clamour for unity against Mgo and yet on another you despise the Kalanga who you think are different from other Mthwakazians.This is hypocrisy of its highest level.Can you let me know of that pary of history lapho uMzilikazi abhuqa khona amaKalanga.

You are trying hard to be more Zulu than the Zulus themselves.Do you think oButhelezi lazo inkosi zakwaZulu consider you among the elite? They obviously don't and probably shall never know you.Ukuzama ukuzisikela ehwahweni ngokwani ndoda?The history that I know is that Mzilikazi was not Zulu and therefore I dont see what your Zulu heroworship is meant to achieve.

Like I said before concerntrate on things that you know and leave the Kalanga people alone.We have heard you loud and clear as you beat your chest about being a descendent of so and so.That does not bring any food to anyones table, probably yours and therefore keep it to yourself.The people of Mthwakazi will juggle with their problem until a solution is found.
Banengi abathethe esKalangeni,umfula bawuzwa ngokuwuxhoxhoza.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/25/04 07:26 AM

Sthutha

I'm a follower of Confucius' philosophies.

Having read your inconsequential vitriolic diatribe directed at my person, (& not my independent ideas), I can only respond to you by heeding Confucius' appropriate teaching as follows:

Never wrestle a pig. You both get dirty and the pig loves it.
-Confucius

Injalo iphuma edunjini.

uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa.
Inxangiphilile.
KwelikaMthaniya.
Posted by: sthutha

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/26/04 01:15 PM

Mntongs,

I wonder if the above quote is the best you could extract from the great Confucius.You will agree with me that some of your postings do not indicate your following of the said philosophies.

Your attempts to divert the original posts and use it to highlight the differences among Mtwakazians in the form of zansi,enhla and hole in terms of -ukulobola exhibits a low form of quest for knowledge.Social stratification exists in any society but i do not think it exists more in Mthwakazi than in Zululand.Nxa usesaba ukuhlangana lizigigaba ngokuthatha esKhalangeni why bother,thatha lapho othanda khona.
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/26/04 10:19 PM

Bafowethu.

NDABOKA STHUTHA. NDABOKA BASEKULU BANGU. NDAHANA KWAZO NENLEBO WUWO. NDISU BAKALANGA BANA BA MATSHOBANE, NJALO TOZI GQAJA KWAZO NAYIGOKO.

ASINGAHAKE NGA-ALETJE, KUNANHU ANOBHAHWA HWIYO KUMANDE???

NHINGO NGAWUNDILE MBELI.

Li Zwangendaba lika Ngcebo.
Posted by: Skuvethe

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/27/04 02:23 AM

Linga mnaki lo, ulambile. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted by: Mabila

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/27/04 02:46 AM

Zwangendaba!

Bakudani nzekulu? Ndobaloba ngwenu wali!
Posted by: inina

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/27/04 07:11 PM

lubaka lwaba fumakadzi, lami ndolebeleka.

irrespective of ones tribe we are one simunye

tolebeleka sonke

kwa tishi mamuka tshi, kwamadabe. kwangwanyana. kuempandeni, kwa chief mpini, kwa malaba ndinomu bulisayi mose

loba ngilinguni kodwa ngiyazama ngoba sikayione
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/28/04 03:52 AM

Bafowethu.

Mabila. Banondi hiyila banoti Ba-Kalanga ate bana ba-Matshobane. Umuntu umele azi ukuthi iNkosi yohlanga brought back the human dignity to the Ka-Langa tribe after it had been erroded by the Shona.

Mina ugogo ozala uMama wayeziqhenya ngokuba liNdebele. Kodwa ehlala esitsho ukuthi bona badabuka ku Mambo. Umuntu ofuna ukubandlulula a Ba-Kalanga, qha ufana lomuntu ongijojileyo.

Lingixolele sizwe sikaMntungwa.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/28/04 12:18 PM

Bandla lakwethu

Nina bakaMzilikazi
Nina bakaMashobane
Isangqumba sashay&#8217;ikhuhle kumasalamuzi,
Sabhuq&#8217;icole kumilingo yaMakalanga
Umningi kawuvusan&#8217; umhlwenga,
Umningi kaligebisanga ikhanda&#8217;
Ukuba waligebisa kwaqubuk&#8217; udaka
Ayeyosala dengwane amaShona emafukwini!


Nizongixolela ngemibuzo.

Ngicela ukwazi ukuthi abantu bakwaNdiweni bangabe bengabakwabani ngempela? UNdiweni yisithakazelo? Banaso esinye isibongo esejwayelekile na, mhlasimbe lapha kwelikaMthaniya? Kungabe bengabakwaMdladla nomaKheswa? Lokhu ngikuqagela ngoba inkosi uKayisa Ndiweni bebembiza uMdladla noma uMkheswa.

Lapha kwelikaMthaniya abantu bakhe ngezibongo zabo. Umzekelo: abakwaMthethwa bakhe ngaphansi kwenkosi yabo laphaya e-North Coast. Thina oMkhwanazi sakhile lapha KwaMtubatuba ngaphansi kwenkosi uMinias Mkhwanazi ozalwa wuMtubatuba. UMkhwanazi nanguya wakhile njalo laphaya KwaDlangezwa ngaphansi kwenkosi uNkwali ozalwa wuMntongenakudla.

Sengiyengazama ukubuza kubantu lapha kwelikaMthaniya ngalesisibongo sakwaNdiweni. Kodwa kasaziwa nhlobo. Namakhosi akwaNdiweni kawaziwa. Lokhu kungabe kubangwa yini?

Injobo ithungelwa ebandla. Kukhona ongasiza na?

uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane wakwaDlangezwa.
Inxangiphilile.
KwelikaMthaniya.
Posted by: Zwangendaba

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/30/04 02:17 AM

Bafowethu.

Mina engikwaziyo yikuthi uNdiweni uphuma ethunjini lika THAMBO. Babizwa Kheswa.

Yikho Mnto, nxa bekhona o THAMBO la ukhona, babuze balobuhlobo labo Ndiweni. Ungalibali ukuthi Inkosi uMzilikazi ngesintu ithumbu elaMzalayo elisikazi liyafihlwa. Cool down ngiyakubona ususithi kanti u Zwangendaba usesithini. Ungababuza abendlu ka Muntu, uTshukisa, izibulo lika Mzilikazi, ubabona behleka.

Kuthiwa unina we Nkosi wayengu Mandiweni. Zibuze ukuthi kanti inkosi yagcwalisa aMakhosi (osekuthiwa ZINDUNA lamhlanje) ako Ndiweni ilizwe lonke kutheni? Angitsho ngomalumakhe!!!
Labo oKHESWA ubezwa betsho ukuthi yibo abezisu ezimhlophe ezalala iNkosi.

Akelingincedise Mthwakazi.

Li Zwangendaba.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Scrape Lobola - 06/30/04 06:44 AM

Zwangendaba

Wena wekunene!
Wena wakwaNgwane!
Wena waphakade!
Wena wangenhla!


Angibongi ngiyanconcoza. Unwele olude kuwena!


uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa.
uVeyane.
okaShiy' osefile.
Inkwali yenkosi.
uMtubatuba kaSomkhele.
uShamase kaNdonga.

Inxangiphilile.
KwelikaMthaniya.
Posted by: Muntongenakudla

Re: Scrape Lobola - 07/05/04 01:43 PM

Nginibingelele bandla eliphakathi!

Nina bakaMzilikazi
Nina bakaMashobane
Isangqumba sashay&#8217;ikhuhle kumasalamuzi,
Sabhuq&#8217;icole kumilingo yaMakalanga
Umningi kawuvusan&#8217; umhlwenga,
Umningi kaligebisanga ikhanda&#8217;
Ukuba waligebisa kwaqubuk&#8217; udaka
Ayeyosala dengwane amaShona emafukwini!


Nizongixolela ngoba kimina imibuzo kayipheli. Angiqondile neze ukuba wumbelebele, iphela ezindlebeni zikaMthwakazi. Cha. Ngiphokophele ulwazi olunzulu qha.

Mzwakwethu, ingabe abantu bakwaMabhena woMntungwa ngempela? Angikutholi kahle hle lokhu ngoba abakwaMabhena ngokomlando abeSotho kumbe abeTswana, hhayi abeNguni. Pho kungani kwelikaMgodoyi oMabhena bebizwa oMntungwa? Angithi uMntungwa wuKhumalo ngomlando ocacile engiwaziyo lapha kwelikaMthaniya! Pho bona oMabhena bakwaMgodoyi bakuthathaphi ukuzibiza ngesithakazelo sakwaNqabayembube kaSokhumalo? Kungani bezibiza abakaMbulazi, uMzilikazi kaMashobane? Akulona iphutha nje leli? Akuyona into ezobabizela umkhokha nesigcwagcwa kumindeni yabo nje? Izinyanya zakwaMashobane azikweseki lokhu.

Ngicaciseleni mzwakwethu. Ngifun&#8217; ukwazi.

uMntongenakudla kaNgogwane waKwaDlangezwa.
uVeyane.
okaShiy' osefile.
Inkwali yenkosi.
uMtubatuba kaSomkhele.
uShamase kaNdonga.
okamthakath' othakath' emini!

Inxangiphilile.
KwelikaMthaniya.
Posted by: Khanka

Re: Scrape Lobola - 08/12/04 04:13 AM

"I.M.A.L.I Y.A.M.A.L.O.B.O.L.O"umqeqetshi wami we Litharetsha wathi kimi ANALYSE this/that phrase and stop arguing on it ngakwenza lokho ngakubona yikho nxa usase yintombi NTO kuzaba lamaselefoni amathathu leka Gogo owayehlola. <img border="0" alt="[wavey]" title="" src="graemlins/wavey.gif" />